From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #612 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, November 17 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 612 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- susan thomas njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: re Faith? NJC [catman ] RE: What do you like to read? (NJC) MAD Magazine lovers! ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Liz Phair (NJC) [Jason Long ] Re: PJ Harvey (NJC) [Jason Long ] RE: Books (njc) ["Chris Marshall" ] Books NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Covers of Covers ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: What do you like to read? (NJC) MAD Magazine lovers! [MGVal@aol.com] Re: books (njc) ["Sue Cameron" ] books NJC [BarBearUh ] Re: Covers of Covers ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: "Lesson in survival" [mags ] RE: what do you like to read? NJC patrick's davies [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #437 [Mauski4648@aol.com] re: what I read [Anne Sandstrom ] fave authors (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] reults ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: what do you like to read? NJC mark's austen [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: PJ Harvey NJC [michael w yarbrough ] Re: PJ Harvey NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] my favorite books [db.ireland@usa.net] Familiar Artists NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: What do you like to read? (NJC) MAD Magazine lovers! [SCJoniGuy@aol.c] Books NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] imagine NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: What do you like to read (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: my favorite booksNJC [catman ] Re: my favorite booksNJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Liz Phair (NJC) [Alison E ] Re: What do you like to read (NJC) [Catherine McKay Subject: susan thomas njc oops sweetheart!!!!!! i'm one day late! happy birthday to you!!!!! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:55:21 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: re Faith? NJC > > > Colin... good observations and question. Law may or may not be partisan > when created, but it's definitely getting the ol' partisan spin down > there in Florida. > Am I right in thinking that your judges are elected? If so would it not be better if they independant of politics? It just seems strange to me that the people with the power of decison in this situation are partisan. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 05:57:52 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: What do you like to read? (NJC) MAD Magazine lovers! Oh my god, I was a Mad junkie, and I especially loved those musical parodies. To this day, I don't know any of the real words to any song from "Oklahoma," but I can sing "007, you're the greatest spy there is today," and "Bentley with the Blonde Up Front." > It did go downhill in the 80's, but the older ones, oh my! I > still hum many > of the parodies from their takes on popular musicals. Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 06:06:33 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Liz Phair (NJC) Azeem wrote: >This inspired me to dig out Exit In Guyville again - what a debut! I saw her >in London the year it was released, in a tiny venue in Camden. It was pretty >ropey, although she was endearingly honest ("I'm sorry, I know we suck live, >we promise to be better next time"). Liz's early shows were indeed shaky affairs, but she's steadily improved since then. Even I had my doubts the first time I went to see her, given the reputation she'd acquired as a live performer, but she more than met my expectations. There were moments where she seemed surprised she was actually pulling it off -- quite often she would have this triumphant look about her after finishing a song -- but somehow that made it all the more endearing. It probably helps now that she has an ace backing band (Ric Menck played drums on several Matthew Sweet records and is a member of Velvet Crush; Buddy Judge and Jebin Bruni are both also in Aimee Mann's touring band). The most recent time I saw Liz was last spring, a one-off show with just herself and Buddy Judge playing guitars. Never had I seen any performer seem so relaxed and carefree on stage (the Liz that comes across in her lyrics was also the Liz that was on that stage that night). She's never been one for much stage banter, but she talked more that night than any other time I'd seen her, at one point asked the audience to choose between songs to determine what she'd play next, and even invited a friend of mine onstage to sing "Flower" with her. >What I love about this album is its complete insouciance, its (apparent) >indifference to what people think of her foul mouth, uncertainly pitched >singing, the don't-give-a-shit delivery and rudimentary production, often >dispensing with bass. I think a lot of Exile's charm comes from the fact that Liz realized she had nothing at all to lose so she was free to make whatever album she wanted. She never actively set about pursuing a music career and more or less fell into it -- she had always set out to be a visual artist (sound familiar, anyone?). I think it's the same thing with many other truly great records, such as Big Star's _Third/Sister Lovers_: the rare situation when the artist doesn't have to really answer to anyone so it doesn't matter what they're doing; either no one else cares or it seems doubtful anyone will hear it anyway, so the artist makes the album for themself. Liz has gone on record saying that she thought the album would maybe sell 1,500 copies, that it was supposed to be just a small indie release. She has also said at different times that she made it to address one particular person in her life, to let them know who she was, or that she made it to get back at a bunch of people in her life (the indie boys she used to hang around with and date. She's referred to that time as her "band-wife" period, but said that no one in that scene took her opinions seriously or thought she knew anything about music. As such, she didn't let most of them know she wrote songs or played guitar because it would have been treated as a joke). She said that everyone she needed to hear the record lived in a one mile radius of the studio in which it was recorded. The production is indeed raw, but I don't know if I'd say rudimentary. I think it suits the songs well and really was just what they needed, although admittedly it was also out of necessity since the record was recorded for only $3000. But ultimately, it gives the album an intensely personal, intimate feel and I like the sparse arrangements. There's still some nice touches here and there: the drums at the beginning of "Stratford-on-Guy" remind me of those on XTC's "Making Plans for Nigel" and little embellishments like the slapped tambourine during the refrain of "F**k and Run" lend the album a bit more of a pop sensibility than it would have otherwise. I think what really defines the album though is the combination of the lyrics and the conversational tone of Liz's vocals. It was weird to hear an album that seemed to express a lot of what I was thinking or feeling or reminded me of other people in my life at that time. It was like hearing a lot of what I wanted to say but couldn't put into words I wouldn't be able to find. I don't feel as strong of a connection with the album now as I did then, but it does remind me a lot of a certain time in my life and it was sort of the soundtrack to my coming out and initial relationships. Liz sequenced the album as a response to the Rolling Stones' _Exile on Main Street_ and has said, "I thought of Exile on Main Street as a big, long love letter -- a good love letter. Not just, 'Oh, Lord, I need you,' but living with your wants, desires, limitations, self-destructive habits and whatever other elements are sparked when you feel connected to a person." Well, that's what _Exile in Guyville_ was like for me. I don't have that kind of reaction to records very often, Joni's _Blue_ being one of the most notable exceptions (I especially could never live without "A Case of You"). >I've got Whitechocolatespaceegg, although it hasn't made much impression on >me on the two occasions I've listened to it. I don't have Whip Smart, but I >do have Juvenalia, which I think is comprised of early demos and possibly >outtakes from the first album. It's quite amusing - I seem to remember one >song about farmers enjoying unnatural congress with farmyard animals. _Whip-Smart_ is a great album too, although not as revelatory as _Guyville_. The songs are more tightly structured and there are fewer meandering mood pieces, and the production and vocals are both a little smoother but thematically it treads much of the same ground. Of course, few artists are able to follow up such a promising debut with an album that's as much of a knockout. The _Juvenilia_ EP was more or less intended as a single for "Jealousy" (from _Whip-Smart_), along with a song from a radio session ("Animal Girl"), a cover of "Turning Japanese" with power-pop band Material Issue, and five songs from Liz's Girly Sound demos. My only problem with it is that it seems to showcase Liz's goofier, "shocking" side. I do enjoy small doses of Liz in that mode, but there are some real gems from her Girly Sound tapes that show what a great songwriter she was to become and it's a shame none of those were included instead. The only real essential of those that do appear on the EP is "Easy," which has a really effective haunted quality to it, but there are others on those tapes that are every bit as powerful as the songs on _Guyville_. Just rambling now, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 06:43:45 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: PJ Harvey (NJC) Bob wrote: >I'd be up to hear it, but you can bet I wouldn't buy it without a thorough >listen...I had a hard enough time getting rid of that other disc of hers. >Even the garbageman wouldn't take it! :~) I would have taken it ... except I've already had a copy for a few years now. ;) Debra Shea wrote: >Anyway, Rid of Me was last on the what-to-get list, but if you don't want it, >Jimmy, I'd be very happy to give it a good home :-). I'm hooked and I want to >hear everything she's done. I know a few people on the list have come out against _Rid of Me_, but even I, as a PJ Harvey fan, must say that it's my least favorite work of hers. I like about half of it, but Steve Albini's "production" kills the rest of it for me -- I don't mind lo-fi or raw-sounding production, but I find this one hard to meet even halfway. Even PJ herself has expressed some reservations about this album, and I much prefer hearing these songs in their incarnations on _The 4-Track Demos_, an album released less than a year after _Rid of Me_ that I feel does her much better justice. I don't know, maybe you'll find _Rid of Me_ more rewarding than I do, but I'd recommend checking out _The 4-Track Demos_ first. Also, please be sure to pick up the first record, _Dry_, at some point. It really is a stunner and it's the one that got me hooked. It seems to get overlooked at times, but for me, it's one of the most compelling debuts I've heard. On certain days, I'd even go as far as to rank it as her best work. As for the new album, I really like it a lot, and I hope that those who haven't gotten into PJ's past work will overcome any hesitations and give it a chance. Usually it takes a few listens for me to get into her albums, but this one was love at first listen. As others have mentioned, it does have a real Patti Smith quality to parts of it and as Debra mentioned the song with Thom Yorke, "This Mess We're In," is a particular stunner. Cheers, Jase NP: Fiona Apple, _When the Pawn..._ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:00:29 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Books (njc) Sue said:- > Cool thread! Can't wait to see what everyone else is reading. I'll have to jump in and drag it all down a notch then :) I'm a bit of a sci-fi/fantasy fan myself. I really like being able to just switch off the real world and go "somewhere else". Just occasionally, a book will get me to the extent where I need to go that somewhere else as often as I can. It's nice :) So, of late: Lord Of The Rings (having told Garret he ought to read it, I then thought perhaps I ought to re-read it again, it being some 15 or 20 years since I last read it). "Zodiac", by Neal Stephenson. Stephenson doesn't really write science fiction, nor science future as such, more "science in a year's time." Most of his stuff is fast-paced, fun, tongue in cheek, and usually something you can almost imagine happening. For a possible view on how the 'net might go, dig out "Snow Crash". It's a hoot, but eminently possible and thought-provoking too. I've also started reading "Cryptonomicon" but ground to a halt when work started intruding on my reading time. Perennial favourites include things like the original Magician series by Raymond E. Feist. The first three are almost as treasured as LOTR, and the books he co-wrote with Janny Wurts are pretty fine too. Asimov - the robot / Elijah Bailey series. Various poofy stuff: "New Boy" by William Sutcliffe was a hoot. "Two Gentlemen Sharing", by William Corlett (I think!) was equally funny, painting a fairly accurate picture of English country village thrown gently onto its ear by the arrival of a pair of... you get the picture. I was also recommended to read "Vanity Fierce" but got bogged down in the middle, and then work intruded again. Anything by Stephen Fry - "Moab is my Washpot" being his absolutely side-splitting autobiog. If you haven't yet, do. Right now? "Secrets and Lies" by Bruce Schnier. Non-ficton: Security, crypto, etc. Looks like a good book if you're interested in this sort of stuff. I have to be... Oh, and a pile of reference stuff about HTML, JavaScript, PHP, PERL, and so on. I find myself with my nose in these books more than I'd like. Right, I'll stop yakking now. But if you get the impression I could spend each and every day lounging in a hammock in a sunny conservatory with a pile of books... you're right. (Oh, that, and have someone there to feed me olives and keep my wine glass brimmed... volunteers? :) Cheers, - --Chris (Cambridge, UK) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:02:52 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Books NJC Yeah, books wot I have read recently: I'm just finishing Joe Queenan's study of Dan Quayle, Imperial Caddy (subtitle: The rise of Dan Quayle in America and the decline and fall of practically everything else), which is good in places, although Queenan's facetious style can be v grating. My big discovery this year has been Robertson Davies - I read the Cornish Trilogy (The Rebel Angels, What's Bred In The Bone and The Lyre of Orpheus), having been lent the first of those by a friend, and I devoured them. Such a delight to discover a writer wo can really write! His sense of humour is dry, his characterisation salty and evocative, and he is incredibly erudite in his language and knowledge. I read Sebastian Faulks's Birdsong this year, and it is simply one of the best novels I've ever read: sensuous, horrifying and humane. I had tears in my eyes on the last page. Another one that had me welling up was I Know This Much Is True by Wally Lamb, a Great American Novel. Salman Rushdie's The Ground Beneath Her Feet was pretty good, although in a different way. Then there are the course-related books, but I don't suppose that many listers will be scouring second hand book shops for copies of Clinical Studies in Transpersonal Psychology or The Multi-Orgasmic Male (I am not making that one up) - or maybe they are?? I read In The Land Of Dreamy Dreams earlier this year too, a collection of short stories by Ellen Gilchrist, mostly set in Louisiana. That was an atmospheric set. Recent purchases that I can't seem to get around to include Susan Faludi's Stiffed and Susan Straight's fabulously titled I Been In Sorrow's Kitchen And Licked Out All The Pots; and then there's Sex Lives of the Great Dictators, which, believe it or not, is related to my studies. Azeem in London NP: September 67 - "Lucky Shoe" - bonus points to anyone who can tell me anything about this. September 67 are a female duo loosely in the Indigo Girls/Dear Janes mould, with pretty good songs and a lead voice who sounds a bit like Shawn Colvin, which is obviously no bad thing PS I'm not trying to be smart here - I REALLY don't know anything about them. I saw it in a second hand shop for the princely sum of one pound, thought it looked interesting and liked the photos in the booklet, and was pleasantly surprised. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:21:23 -0500 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Covers of Covers > I agree with James. If the songs Joni sang will be included in the Covers Project of Bob, then we might as well include other jazz singers' version of STORMY WEATHER, I WISH I WERE IN LOVE AGAIN, etc. and other standards from her BSN album. > > Joseph Wow. Good point, Joseph. I hadn't even considered the BSN album when I posted. What a can of worms we'd open up if we convinced Bob to include those! We'd end up with a 251-CD set! :) "Boston Jim" NP: Terence Blanchard, The Heart Speaks (w/ Ivan Lins) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:22:00 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: What do you like to read? (NJC) MAD Magazine lovers! In a message dated 11/17/00 3:03:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: << h my god, I was a Mad junkie, and I especially loved those musical parodies. To this day, I don't know any of the real words to any song from "Oklahoma," but I can sing "007, you're the greatest spy there is today," and "Bentley with the Blonde Up Front." >> Same here! I knew there was a reason why I loved this list! MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:28:59 -0500 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: books (njc) Barbara wrote: > i've been meaning to get "prince of >tides". i picked it up in a condo rental last year and only had time to >read the first few chapters. the writing in that book is exquisite - >i'm going to have to pursue reading more by that author (can't remember >name). Ahhh! Another favorite of mine. Pat Conroy. He wrote The Great Santini which was made into a wonderful little film starring Robert Duvall. Also his book The Water is Wide discribes his early days as a teacher, which I can empathize with. To Chris Marshall: Have you ever read The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever a series of books by Stephen R. Donaldson? The six books in the series are: Lord Foul's Bane The Illearth War The Power That Preserves and The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant The Wounded Land The One Tree White Gold Wielder This series captivated me shortly after I read the Tolkien trilogy. If you haven't checked them out I encourage you to do so. Sue Cameron np: Sound of snow plow going by my home. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:32:52 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: books NJC Hell wrote: > I also really like Fay Weldon, and loved The Life and Loves of A She-Devil. Fay was interviewed for a film i worked on about austen's "pride & prejudice", and she was just fabulous! i read one of her books around that time, which i didn't find that compelling, but i've got "she-devil" on the shelf. watching this interview with Fay made me want to read everything she ever wrote, because she just seemed so damned cool! she has a very mischievous sense of humor and a smile that can't be beat! lots of talk about "yaya". maybe because i read it only a year or so ago (after hearing how wonderful it was), i found it rather disappointing. there were great things about it, but i thought it was a narrative mess. i don't know why, but there was something about it that made me feel like the author only went 90% of the way. in all fairness though, i read it right after my irving-dickens-irving-dickens-irving stint, and anything might feel like a narrative mess compared to the master construction of those two writers. patrick leader wrote: > the shakespeare reference reminded me of a particular davies favorite of > mine, 'tempest tost', a fairly short comic novel about an upper ottawa > community theater production of shakespeare's 'the tempest'. i'm gonna go back to movies again. if you've never seen mazursky's "tempest", check it out. it's like a cult classic - it got bad reviews, but everytime i turn someone on to it, it makes it into their top ten list. modernization of the story (very very loose)... frustrated, over-successful NY architect leaves wife, goes to greece with daughter in tow. finds companion along the way, ends up on small greek island with one inhabitant. best line: "show me the magic" (it will make it into your vocabulary, guaranteed!). stellar cast - john cassavetes, gena rowlands, susan sarandon, raul julia, vitorrio gassman, molly ringwald (her 1st film i think - she's less annoying) and paul mazursky in a bit role. barbara np: youssou n'dour, wommad (the guide) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:34:54 -0500 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Covers of Covers > Wow. Good point, Joseph. I hadn't even considered the BSN album when I > posted. What a can of worms we'd open up if we convinced Bob to include > those! We'd end up with a 251-CD set! :) > > "Boston Jim" > And then there's "Corinna, Corinna" to consider. We could probably find 15 or 20 of those. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:22:22 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: "Lesson in survival" cassy wrote: > < accept us as we come, they try to help us even when we are "heavy company.">> > What a beautiful post Cassy. Thank you for sharing tender moments. This is one of the many things I love about this list: Acceptance. take good care, Mags > > > > > - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:42:18 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: RE: what do you like to read? NJC patrick's davies hi patrick! robertson davies...wow. it's been a while since someone has so thoroughly "stumped" me with an author i really have never read a word of -- or know much about! i'm so interested to hear your thoughts on him...and i have read many wonderful things about the "deptford" books. i think i have always linked davies, in my mind, with writers such as evelyn waugh--and maybe armistead maupin? i'm not sure why: something about a dry, social commentary about a specific group of people. and is there a trollope influence in davies? these are my first mental connections. but, no, i've never read a word. and now i want to. do you suppose i should start with "tempest tost" or go straight to the deptford trilogy. i love being recommended books. i feel like i'm usually on the other side! thank you. - --emily ps: all this talk of things "the tempest" reminds me of the troubled but wonderful cassavetes movie "tempest" -- with a scene-stealing "caliban/caballano" by the late great raul julia. does anyone else love this film? can you still hear julia urging his "sony TRINITRON" on the creeped-out miranda and ariel (played by a gorgeous, gorgeous susan sarandon)? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:43:51 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: books (njc) Sue Cameron asked:- > Have you ever read The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever a > series of books by Stephen R. Donaldson? The six books in the series > are: Yes! A long time ago, though, so maybe it's time for a revisit. I found them utterly compelling, even though they were equally depressing, as I recall. > np: Sound of snow plow going by my home. I *so* envy the fact that you have a "proper" winter there. So unfair. - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk Short Msg: mobile@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 86F2 8809 FAC2 37ED 491A FD7D 7CAF 3206 E706 D3B3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:55:13 EST From: Mauski4648@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #437 In einer Nachricht vom 17.11.2000 8:14:31 Uhr schreibt les@jmdl.com: << live Joni recordings. >> Hi, Emily, I have a live cd Mitchell/Taylor, recorded in the US: Songs about the midway, Gallery, Rainy Day Man, Steam Roller, Priest, Carey, Carolina on My Mind, California, For Free, The Circle Game, You can close your Eyes..guess it is an unauthorized version, found it in a music store..but it is nice..shall I copy a mc and send it to you, from Germany to England..let me know.Karin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:02:19 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: re: what I read Maybe because I read technical stuff for a living, I don't actually read as much as one might think. But I do like Annie Dillard, Gretel Ehrlich and (not just for his book "The Perfect Storm" but for all the articles he's written) Sebastian Junger. All 3 share Joni's gift for being masters of language, not just story, although they're top notch as weaving stories as well. btw, I don't tend to read fiction. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:11:58 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: fave authors (NJC) Hey Patrick - I love Robertson Davies. Fifth Business and it's sequels/companions are three of the most amazing novels -- a major accomplishment and so compelling. Sadly, none of Davies' other novels or stories have ever grabbed me, but maybe you can convince me there's another one I ought to read. I've read everything by David Leavitt and loved it all except for his latest which is a self-indulgent novel about writing. Have read almost everything Tom Wolfe has ever written: ELECTRIC KOOL-AID ACID TEST is my fave non-fiction and BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES and A MAN IN FULL were both just fascinating. I also love Salinger, Edith Wharton, Fitzgerald, Amy Tan, Arthur C. Clarke, Frank Herbert, Andrew Holleran and a thousand others. - - Clark NP: NPR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:43:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: reults Apparently, Florida's Judge Lewis has sustained the decision of the Secretary of State to enforce Florida's statutory cut-off for the reporting of election returns. Judge Lewis is, of course, a Democrat. So much for all the lunatic conspiracy theories being vented. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:58:40 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Re: what do you like to read? NJC mark's austen i was in a wonderful 18th c. lit seminar -- and we closed out the term by reading "emma" (not, obviously, a book written in the 18th c., but rather as a way of pointing out where the development of the novel form in that time was heading to, as a culmination). i remember that the wonderful professor, blanford parker (who sadly--and infuriatingly--didn't get tenure), gave a revolutionary (to me), brilliant talk on "emma," claiming it as one of the finest novels written in the english language. that is, up there with moby dick and ulysses. he spent a lot of time talking about the shifts of narrative, the different awarenesses between what we know and what emma knows. i wish i could remember all that he said about it. it wasn't my field -- i took the class on a whim -- but that one hour on "emma" changed the way i think about austen. it isn't often that people are brave enough to claim austen's work as great IN ITS OWN RIGHT as opposed to "one of the best women's novels of the modern era" or something like that. in my experience, anyway. thought i'd just throw that in. - --emily, so happy with all this talk about books! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:28:58 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Jonis Loves and Jonis Music As someone who has written a whole bunch of songs I can tell you without a doubt that the inspiration can happen in so many ways its amazing. people have written about the "muse" but that has only rarely been my experience. Mostly they come from pieces of your life that affect you in some unique (or happy or bad or sad) way. Sometimes I have been just driving around and listening to the news or a commericial or someone walking past my car at a red light. I divide songwriters into categories. Some write from the instrument out some from the experience in. Piano songs are different than guitar songs and are different from synth songs. Some write the melody and try to make up words some write the words and try to find the best melody to fit the mood of the theme. However most songs are about relationships and so there is no doubt that the relationship that a writer is going through (or crashed into the deepest part of hell over) is a huge influence. Not that all songs are about "I love you". One time a girl friend sent me (this was before I had a political affiliation of course) seven pages with only the line "I love you" over the entire seven pages front and back causing my mother to wonder how sane she was so I wrote a song about that but didnt mention her. So you never know the exact connection between the relationships and the song but many times little nuances and clues are there. Now in the case of our dear Joni when I hear songs like "Backstreets" the line about the hair in the bathtub drain I think this clearly is Jonis way of publicizing the flaw in her current boyfriend-husband. In "I just want to see you Again" the line about the suspenders made me think it was about james taylor because of the album cover of him in big suspenders. But maybe not. I have found many such direct references. maybe you have as well. But i thought it would be interesting to juxtapose her albums with her relationships just to see what the songs on the albums would look like. Having said that there is a caveat. Songs sometimes take years to nurture and evolve until you have the final final. A melody that has words about one subject (but never recorded) may have those words replaced just because the writer thinks that some new words fit the melody better. Sometimes the words never seem right so they are kept for months or years until the proper melody is found and that could delay the words until well past the demise of the relationship. So I would caution that there may be no connection between the current relationship and the song appearing on an album. On the other hand there could be. This is a big mystery. Only the Joan Knows. (eeerie music). On the other hand taking a break from the Coup D'Etat in progess I thought it would be fun to publish my findings. Special thanks to jaime Zubari and Steve "The Dulcitola" Dulson for their contributions many months ago. I did my best to research the dates but if I made a mistake not only am I sorry but Ill cast my next vote for mayor of San Francisco for a Democrat next time. marcel deste 1965 Couldnt make out my handwriting as to the person. 1966 Chuck Mitchell 1967 Leonard Cohen 1967 David Crosby 1968 Mitchell Reed Song to a Seagull 1969 Graham Nash Clouds 1970 James Taylor Ladies of the Canyon 1971 David Blue Blue 1972 Jackson Browne For the Roses 1974 John Guerin Court and Spark Don Alias Miles of Aisles 1975 " Hissing 1976 " Hejira 1977 unknown Don Juans reckless Daughter 1979 Her "art" Mingus 1980 unknown Shadows and Light 1982 Larry Klein Wild Things Run fast 1985 Larry Klein Dog Eat Dog 1988 Larry Klein Chalkmark in a Rainstorm 1991 Larry Klein Night Ride Home 1994 Larry Klein Turbulent Indigo 1998 Don Freed Taming the Tiger ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:35:00 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: KPFK Benefit (NJC) Howard & Roz Larman who have hosted the "Folkscene" program on KPFK in Los Angeles were recently canned by the station. They are fighting it, and some rather stellar talent is showing up at The Troubadour on 11/28 to help them pay their legal bills: - - Jackson Browne - - - Peter Case - - - Dan Crary - - - Judy Henske with Craig Doerge - - - "King of California" - (I presume this means Dave Alvin) - - Jim Lauderdale - - - Lowen and Navarro - - - Katy Moffatt - - - Van Dyke Parks - - - Joel Rafael Band - plus other special guests Hosted by Harry Shearer & Mark Maxwell-Smith Details at www.folkscene.com. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:56:43 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: PJ Harvey NJC Personally, after five albums four of which I consider instant classics and the remaining of which (_Is This Desire_) I like a lot, too, I'm just about willing to nominate PJ Harvey for God. There are very very few artists who are this consistent but this wide-ranging. And for those who hate _Rid of Me_ (poor misguided souls :-) ), it's not much like anything else she's done. The things you hate about that album probably have a lot to do with Steve Albini's production. The last two, in particular, are quite melodic, and _Is This Desire_ is positively gentle. Also, see her live if you can. Electrifying, swaggering, but somehow shy. - --Michael NP: Madonna, _Music_ (what a great year for great albums by familiar performers; too bad new artists other than Eminem can't keep up) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place But then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace." - --Common, "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:14:25 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: PJ Harvey NJC In a message dated 11/17/00 11:57:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, mwyarbro@midway.uchicago.edu writes: << And for those who hate _Rid of Me_ (poor misguided souls :-) ), it's not much like anything else she's done. >> Michael, thanks for your reviews of PJ. I always respect what you have to say about different artist (plus you love Madonna's "Music" too :~) ) I've agreed with Debra to swap "Rid of Me" for her latest one. I'm pretty open minded about all music, so hopefully I'll change my mind about PJ. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: 17 Nov 00 10:45:46 MST From: db.ireland@usa.net Subject: my favorite books Well since everyone is sharing here: The Catcher in the Rye - J.D. Salinger Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - Pursig The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test - TOm Wolfe The Immense Journey - John Einsley Brave New World - Aldous Huxley Door of Perseption - Aldous Huxley The Celestine Prophecy - James Redfield The Joy Luck Club - Amy Tan Cold Sassy Tree - Olive Ann Burns The Great Gatsby - F. Scott Fitzgerald As You Like It - Shakespeare The Bluest Eye - Toni Morrison She's Come Undone - Wally Lamb Go ask Alice - Anonymous A Wrinkle in Time - Madeleine L'Engle On the ROad - Jack Kerouac Anyone have some great books I could add to this list? DB ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:06:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Familiar Artists NJC <> Boy, no kidding...I've been thinking the same thing. ALthough I constantly try and find new artists, and there have been some great ones there as well, the real gems are the tried and trues like Neil, XTC, Steely Dan (!), Patti Smith, Paul Simon. It's just a shame that radio doesn't pick up on it any more than it has; than again, maybe we'll be hearing this stuff NEXT year on the radio. Lots of familiar performers took a while to break big, like Sting & Santana. Bob NP: The Wallflowers, "Josephine" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:18:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: What do you like to read? (NJC) MAD Magazine lovers! <> The brain is a strange thing (mine especially!) Here is one from around 1967 that I remember in its entirety: (To the tune of Hello Dolly) Hello, Deli Well hello, Deli Won't you please send up some nice corned beef on rye? A box of Ritz, deli And some Schlitz, deli Some chopped liver and a sliver of your...apple pie! Turkey legs, deli hard-boiled eggs, deli with tomatoes and potatos you french fry...ooohhh, please don't be late, deli 'cause I can't wait, deli Deli without BREAKFAST I will die! :~) (How in the world can I remember that verbatim from over thirty years ago?) Anyway, that's why I love to do song parodies! I grew up on a steady diet of them... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:49:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Books NJC Kerry said "I just read "The Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood." Don't know what took me so long! It was the best book I've read in a long time!!!! Me- YES! Someone else who has read this book! My favorite book of all time! So Kerry, help me find something that is as good. I only want to re-read Divine Secrets & feel like I will never find anything as good as that book... ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:49:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: imagine NJC A forward from a friend, 1. Imagine an election in a third-world country in which the self-declared winner was the son of the former prime minister -- and imagine that the former prime minister was himself the former head of that nation's secret police. 2. Imagine that the self-declared winner lost the popular vote, but won based on some old colonial holdover from the nation's pre-democracy past. 3. Imagine that the self-declared winner's "victory" turned on disputed votes cast in a province governed by his brother. 4. Imagine that the poorly drafted ballots of one district - a district heavily favoring the self-declared winner's opponent -- led thousands of voters to vote for the wrong candidate. 5. Imagine that members of that nation's most despised caste of former slaves, fearing for their lives/livelihoods, turned out in record numbers to vote in near-universal opposition to the self-declared winner's candidacy. 6. Imagine that hundreds of members of that most-despised caste were intercepted on their way to the polls by state police, operating under the authority of the self-declared winner's brother. 7. Imagine that six million people voted in the disputed province, and that the self-declared winner's "lead" was only 327 votes -- fewer, certainly, than the vote-counting machines' margin of error. 8. Imagine that the self-declared winner and his political party opposed a more careful, by-hand inspection and re-counting of the ballots in the disputed province, or in its most hotly disputed district. 9. Imagine that the self-declared winner was himself a governor of a major province, and that his province had the worst human-rights record of any province in his nation, and actually led the nation in executions. 10. Imagine that a major campaign promise of the self-declared winner was to appoint like-minded human-rights violators to lifetime positions on the high court of that nation. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 13:59:23 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: What do you like to read (NJC) Hell wrote:- > Basically I'll read anything anyone recommends! I can't sleep at night unless I've read for an hour or so, so I'm always on the lookout for new authors. I also read very quickly, so I like long books!< I've been recommending "An Equal Music" by Vikram Seth to everyone I meet recently and I haven't found anyone who didn't like it yet. It's a love story which involves a classical string quartet and is really well written and researched and particularly interesting to musicians. It's an easy read too, compared to Seth's "A Suitable Boy" which I found heavy going. There seems to have been a spate of novels featuring music recently. I'm now reading "The Piano Shop on the Left Bank" by T.E. Carhart which is also good. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 19:31:00 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: my favorite booksNJC Sophie's World is an excellent book. By a Dane or Scandinavian. Sorry I cannot remember the author. The book is written as a story but is all about philosophy and how wwe view the world in differing ways. A mind bender and hopefully an opener too. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:36:22 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: my favorite booksNJC Grapes of Wrath. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:37:11 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Liz Phair (NJC) - --- Jason Long wrote: [a whole bunch of stuff about liz phair] > Just rambling now, > Jase (didn't want to cram up the digests...) all this talk about liz made me want to go out and buy exile in guyville. i don't own any of her stuff, i used to listen and play it alot on my old radio show. so i am just dying to hear some phair...and i get home, and my roomie jeff is playing on the stereo.. LIZ PHAIR! stranger than fiction.... anyhow, very nice post jason. i bet you even made old bob dig out those cd's again! thanks for the insight, alison e., leaving work early to go buy "exile" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:42:40 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: What do you like to read (NJC) - --- Gertus@aol.com wrote: > I've been recommending "An Equal Music" by Vikram > Seth to everyone I meet > recently and I haven't found anyone who didn't like > it yet. It's a love story > which involves a classical string quartet and is > really well written and > researched and particularly interesting to > musicians. It's an easy read too, > compared to Seth's "A Suitable Boy" which I found > heavy going. I really enjoyed "A suitable boy" - it was probably one of the longest books I've ever read, but I enjoyed it so much, I wished it had been longer - I'm glad to see he's finally come out with another book! _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:56:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Liz Phair (NJC) <> Nope, I'm still wading through the "W"'s! :~) As for Liz, you could take her last 3 records and find enough good songs to make ONE good disc - she has yet to be able to really get it together imo...but she certainly has the critics wrapped around her little finger! Bob NP: Dinah Washington, "You Don't Know What Love Is" (Liz P. would do well to listen to Dinah for some vocal tips! ;~D) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 16:45:41 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: imagine, Yes lets. NJC 1. Imagine an election in a third-world country in which the self-declared winner was the son of the former prime minister -- and imagine that the former prime minister was himself the former head of that nation's secret police>>>> Not the parrallel here at all except for ballot box stuffing is also common in heavy Democrat districts AND third world countries. In no other country in the world is there a massive outbreak of voters who cant follow arrows. As for thesecret police we have learned that we can actually have a President who actually has one (according to his closest advisor) and no one seems to mind. We are told that to complain about such secret police praetorian guards makes one the member of some kind of "conspiracy". <<<2. Imagine that the self-declared winner lost the popular vote, but won based on some old colonial holdover from the nation's pre-democracy past.>>> There are no electoral colleges anywhere else in the world because everywhere else the Government is able to pay off the masses which are uneducated and prey to scare tactics and payola for votes, you know like in New York, Florida, California and the industrial midwest. <<< 3. Imagine that the self-declared winner's "victory" turned on disputed votes cast in a province governed by his brother.>>> The only one disputing the votes in Florida are the same ones who planted the illegal ballots. You know Bob Schlossberg (Dem-Fla) who was caught by the police with the 'votomatic' in his car and the woman in charge of the hand count who spoke at a rally and said to the crowd "I'll go to jail before I'll let Al Gore lose". <<<4. Imagine that the poorly drafted ballots of one district - a district heavily favoring the self-declared winner's opponent -- led thousands of voters to vote for the wrong candidate.>>> In foreign countries are usually hand written by the voters so as to avoid tampering but in Democratic districts in America the Democrats actually design the ballots that they then can declare "illegal" not before, but after, the election.. No one would dare try to do that in a third world country. The media in any third world country would see right through such a patently transparent scheem. <<< 5. Imagine that members of that nation's most despised caste of former slaves, fearing for their lives/livelihoods, turned out in record numbers to vote in near-universal opposition to the self-declared winner's candidacy.>>> At least we now know that Paul Begala was the author of this with a little help from Jessie. It goes without saying that in all the other countries [except for the one in which the same guys who created the electoral college also freed the slaves] those who used to be slaves would favor the side that actually placed the decendants of the slaves in prominent positions in the administration as opposed to the other side which only employs the demagogues to incite racial animosity as opposed to giving them real political positions of power. . <<<6. Imagine that hundreds of members of that most-despised caste were intercepted on their way to the polls by state police, operating under the authority of the self-declared winner's brother.>>> Yes this same group that got confused by the arrow imagined alot of other things perhaps. As the Tawana Brawley incident exposed, some of the leaders are prone to making extravagant claims and the use of blatant "race card" TV Spots already revealed their tendency to employ any incendiary accusation just to get the medias attention. They also call such things as a "butterfly ballot" designed by their own people as "stealing their dignity and civil rights" which devalues subsequent claims of this nature so I wouldnt automatically assume that they are actually true unless of course we find a group of bad guys with a trunk full of road arrows used to mislead the voters by pointing them in the actual direction of the polling places which of course would cause them to go in the opposite direction. <<<7. Imagine that six million people voted in the disputed province, and that the self-declared winner's "lead" was only 327 votes -- fewer, certainly, than the vote-counting machines' margin of error.>>> I would have to think that it would be most important to elect the only one of the two candidates who promised to work together and reach across the aisle as opposed to the other who besides inciting hate in their followers promised vigorously to "fight fight fight" everybody and everything everyday. It would be critical to have a leader who reaches out without having a weapon in his hand. Votes can be close and thereby both sides interests would have to be addressed. Ity would be crucial to keep the one who divides with hate out of any future position of real power unless the goal was to purposely divide the country and its people. <<<8. Imagine that the self-declared winner and his political party opposed a more careful, by-hand inspection and re-counting of the ballots in the disputed province, or in its most hotly disputed district.>>> Once the people involved demonstrate that they are willing to manipulate the hand count, evidence appears that ballots are being twisted to create votes that werent actually there, mysterious chads appearing on the floor of the polling place that no one knows where they came from and one of them gets caught with a 'votomatic' in the trunk of their car then one must take extraordinary measures (like following the law to the letter) to insure that many more peoples votes arent lost through sabotage and subterfuge for blatantly political purposes like stacking the courts. <<<9. Imagine that the self-declared winner was himself a governor of a major province, and that his province had the worst human-rights record of any province in his nation, and actually led the nation in executions.>>> There are some questionable studies done by prejudiced think tanks populated by political ideologues who will concoct a study that ignores all kinds of factual evidence in the interest of influencing the uninformed so such statistical claims are frequently offset by many other studies that demonstrate the opposite such as those cities with the strictest gun control laws are among the leaders in violent crime such as Washington D/C. and New York City, Toledo Ohio, Trenton new jersey etc thereby making the citizens of those places far more apt to suffer from violent crime. As for the executions; the most important thing in this case is that whoever is elected carries out the "will of the people" who created the law as opposed to lying to get into office and then failing to carry out the "will of the people". It would also be of note that the opposing political party, the one raising the issue now, was in fact the leader of the province when the record as stated was much worse. Hence the current provincial leader actually has made things better perhaps. <<<10. Imagine that a major campaign promise of the self-declared winner was to appoint like-minded human-rights violators to lifetime positions on the high court of that nation. >> Lets leave the former Governort of Arkansas out of this. "Get those 2000 FBI files over here into the hands of our political operatives and "Lets get our people in there".Have we set up that separate and illegal e-mail system yet ?" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #612 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?