From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #603 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 603 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- listening to the voice of depression NJC [mags ] re: Actual Joni Content [Gerald McNamara ] Yes! (NJC) [Michael Paz ] liver in a blender [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: liver in a blender ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: liver in a blender NJC ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Polls (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: liver in a blender [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: thanksgiving meal and childhood faves(njc) [susan+rick ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:57:43 -0600 From: mags Subject: listening to the voice of depression NJC I received news last night that someone i know committed suicide (yesterday morning). The tragedy of this story is that she attempted just last Wednesday and she was released from the hospital. They set her up for a psych assessment this week... I do not understand why they let her go. Her method was very telling, very much done with the intention of 100% success. This was no mock battle cry for help, this was a real and horrific war on her self. I hope it will not be deemed inappropriate for me to bring this to the list. I am very disturbed by this news which comes loaded with issues for me. I felt compelled to share this with you, my joni family and friends. For the most part, I cant feel anything about this. Am I numb? I have to be. I do know that I am really angry but my feelings stop right there. It is all so surreal. I wanted to reiterate and support what Rose Joy said recently about how important it is to listen to someone who is depressed and who is leaning toward taking their own life. Take it seriously. Listen. Hear. and tell the people in your life today...you love them. Mags - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 4:48:15 UTC From: Gerald McNamara Subject: re: Actual Joni Content Vince re-wrote: > Question: the two kids (Jason and Vince?) steal the music from the record > store, Cusack chases them, and then mocks what they steal by saying what, > exactly? I couldn't catch the line; it was something like, and this is a loose > paraphrase,"what are you doing, mainlining Joni Mitchell now?" What was the > line from the movie and what did it mean? Anyone know? > > (I am sure this was covered before but I forget...) > The kids looked like skate-board punks. I can't remember what the records where that they stole, but they weren't what you'd expect skate-punks to be interested in, more like AOR or 'folk music'. I think the Cusack character said, "What? Are you slamming to Joni Mitchell now ??". The image I conjured up was of a group of young people slam-dancing while LOTC played on the stereo. -Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:49:04 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Yes! (NJC) Jim wrote: "> "Going For The One" by Yes. This is audio adrenaline. Then Mike wrote: "Boy, how about that whole album? I'll never forget listening to it for the first time, in 1976 I believe. It was a little different for Yes at the time but it was goood. I saw them in Atlanta shortly after. I really have a spot in my soul for that LP and the group in general. A Yes man, Mike " I'm a Yes man too. Way up on my short list. I saw them in New Orleans on this tour and Donavan opened the show. What a treat for me as I love Donavan. My faves from that album were Turn of the Century (positively breathtakingly beautiful) and Awaken (probably the best song they ever did). Best of Yes to ya's, Paz NP-Chelsea Morning-Susan Cowsill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:23:35 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: liver in a blender David Letterman just had a very funny segment on his show with some middle school-aged kids demonstrating their science experiments. An 8th grade girl from Illinois was first and her experiment involved something with liver and hydrogen peroxide and a blender. (Don't ask me what she was doing, I couldn't watch.) Anyway, Letterman said, "Liver in a blender? Isn't that an old Joni Mitchell song?" Most of the laughter seemed to come from the band area, and then Dave said something like, "Well, the band likes that one." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 21:41:35 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: liver in a blender > David Letterman just had a very funny segment on his show with some middle > school-aged kids demonstrating their science experiments. An 8th grade girl > from Illinois was first and her experiment involved something with liver and > hydrogen peroxide and a blender. (Don't ask me what she was doing, I couldn't > watch.) Anyway, Letterman said, "Liver in a blender? Isn't that an old Joni > Mitchell song?" Most of the laughter seemed to come from the band area, and > then Dave said something like, "Well, the band likes that one." > > --Bob Omigod, just thinking about Letterman saying this is making me laugh! Thanks for sharing this, Bob! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:47:03 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: liver in a blender NJC > Anyway, Letterman said, "Liver in a blender? Isn't that an old Joni > Mitchell song?" Liver in a blender She flips her hair for you ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 21:48:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Rome or Bust (NJC) Paz wrote: > Take me with you. Suddenly I feel like it could be time to >exit stage left. Hell even the bug infested Marshall Islands >sounds better than this. Funny you should mention that place ;-) I was actually thinking just yesterday about how the MI and so many other former U.S. territories which are now independent have governments set up on our very same current model of representative government, president, executive, legislative, judicial branches, equal representative standing for outlying islands and so on. And I thought how ironic it would be if the U.S. decides to change our current system, throw out the electoral college, etc. Suddenly some current third world countries could end up having a more enlightened, IMO, governmental system than we do. Gawd maybe I'd have to move to the MI permanently. Through my work there, I've also learned a lot about their politics. They completely voted out a corrupt president who disregarded the law (which is based on the U.S. model and follows much of our precedents) and padded his pockets, along with his cronies earlier this year. So even though they are a small nation, the system seemed to work for them in this instance and they are also making enormous progress in a very short time in cleaning up the mess left behind. Also wanted to add for those who may not know - most of our representative system model was not invented by the politicians of the day in the 1700's. It is based almost exactly on the Iroquois nation model. Just another great thing the Native Americans gave to us which is rarely taught in U.S. schools. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:19:57 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Polls (NJC) Deb wrote: > Can you cite a source for the statement that half that US >think the Democrats are trying to steal th election?? Nope, because no one has done those kinds of polls yet, or at least have not released them to the major news outlets. It's just a strong hunch I have based on roughly the half of the country who didn't vote for Gore. And the poll you cite in your post speaks only to the first recount by machine, which no one could have opposed or should have if they wanted to - it was an automatic recount under Florida law. Here is a portion of the article you cite which indicates the poll was taken Thursday and Friday, which was before the move toward the second recount by hand which was decided on Sunday: "" ACCORDING TO A NEW NEWSWEEK POLL taken on Thursday and Friday, 72 percent of adults feel that making certain the count is fair and accurate is more important than getting matters resolved as quickly as possible. And 69 percent say that the recount and the delay are proof that the U.S. electoral system is working, not a sign of weakness. Still, a majority (61 percent) of people say that George W. Bush and Al Gore should agree to accept the results as final once the recount is officially done or the absentee ballots are counted. Less than four in 10 (36 percent) say it is okay to wait until the legal issues are resolved." Deb wrote: The only poll I've seen so far (Newsweek) said that a strong majority support the recounts, and believe it is more important that the process be accurate than t that it be speedy. I believe the numbers were 3 to 1 in favor of the recounts. > > Details: > http://www.msnbc.com/news/488684.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 02:03:03 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: liver in a blender In a message dated 11/14/00 12:58:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Anyway, Letterman said, "Liver in a blender? Isn't that an old Joni > Mitchell song?" Most of the laughter seemed to come from the band area, and > then Dave said something like, "Well, the band likes that one." > > --Bob Omigod, just thinking about Letterman saying this is making me laugh! Thanks for sharing this, Bob! Mark in Seattle >> OK, then you can tell me, what is funny about it? I don't get it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:08:48 -0800 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: thanksgiving meal and childhood faves(njc) You wrote to the list: > We also had holupche. Damned if I know the right spelling on that, but the > Poles call it "pierogi." I saw someone else listed that as a childhood > favorite, too. My mom would brown butter and onions to serve over the > cheese and potato-filled dumplings. > Pidahih is ground beef, rice, and a few > mellow spices wrapped in cabbage and topped with tomato sauce, and then it's > steamed. Hi Diane I'm the lister who wrote of childhood memories of my Croatian mother's cabbage rolls and perogies but didn't have the nerve to try to spell them the way we pronounce them. Now the interesting part is that we (and all my relatives) called, and still call, cabbage rolls holupche and perogies pidaheh. I've never seen these words spelled out but always assumed that the "d" in pidaheh was sort of an anglicised way of pronouncing a slightly rolled "r". I know that Ukrainian and Croatian have many similar words, both being Slavic languages, but is one of us remembering them the wrong way around? Any other listers of Slavic origin who can shed some light on this discrepancy? Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:16:09 -0800 From: Don Sloan Subject: NJC The Truth About Cow Herders and Libertarians / was Re: Joni and politics Paul I... I appreciate your opinions, even your candid assessment of libertarians as "foggy thinking fools" (certainly not the first time that label has been pinned on me!). However, it seems I am an ultra foggy fool and misunderstand your point completely or you need to learn a little more about libertarianism before making a final pronouncement about the weather. The English cow herder study you cite was obviously one designed to study the impact of collectivism, i.e. no one owns property but rather it belongs to and is shared by everyone, the State if you will. I would agree that that generally doesn't work, and the fact that it doesn't work is born out in the experiment. If the study proves anything, it proves that collectivism is inefficient, is against human nature and that libertarian support of private property rights (as it might apply to the herders) is in tune with human nature. A libertarian would argue, and I think quite successfully in the context of the experiment, that if, say, you had 10 acres and 10 herders and each herder *owned* an acre, he or she would take much better care of it and be concerned with its use and value over the long term. Does that make them selfish? I hardly think so. As for your statements suggesting that libertarians are selfish I would argue that they are no more or less selfish than anyone else. Altruism, or being concerned with the welfare of others, is ultimately manifested in one because it makes him or her feel good for one reason or another. One might say that altruism is human nature. Does that make a person selfish, because they do good to feel good? I think not. In my opinion, it's one of Nature's most marvelous feedback loops. Everyone acts, ultimately, in their own self interest, assuming they are able to act freely. Who freely acts in a manner which makes them feel bad or diminished in some way? The state interferes with true altruism in that it forces people, sometimes against their will, to do *good* things, thereby robbing people of the good feelings they would get by performing the same action of their own free will. I believe it is my responsibility to help others less fortunate than I am. I try to use 10 per cent of my earnings in efforts to help others. But many don't do this as they have been taught to believe the state is responsible for helping others and they as individuals are no longer obligated to do anything on their own. It is hard to blame them for thinking that way when Tax Freedom Day in the USA is now somewhere around the end of May. I suggest that people become more *selfish* when the state confiscates their money to *help* others, the state assuming the people are not generous enough or smart enough if left to do so on their own. It's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy... treat people like they are unkind and selfish and that's what you will get. Paul, I am not thinking I will substantially change your mind about libertarians, but I thought it important to at least clear up the misunderstanding about the Tragedy of Commons cow herders experiment. And if, in fact, I misunderstood your point, by all means please try one more time to help me understand. Regards, Foggy Don Paul I previously wrote: <> I previously wrote: <> Paul I replied: <> IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/12/00 7:35:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, > donbvs@lightspeed.net writes: > > << > Paul I wrote: > > <> > > i don't understand.>> > Poorly worded. What I mean is they are selfish but don't think they are. > > > < want to protect what they have.>> > > True. But I believe just about *everyone* wants to at least protect what > they have and most want to add to it... whether they be rich, poor or in > the middle somewhere. However I don't believe it is right to employ > force to take from some and arbitrarily give to others and/or use force > to keep people from getting more (whatever the "more" may be for them).>>> > > I'm not sure I agree with that. Whatever happened to altruism? > > > <> > Libertarianism, like Marxism, is a utopian philosophy that, frankly, will > never work on this planet. > The problem with Libertarianism, for the most part, is that many men and > women and most corporations do not care enough about you and me to be > responsible for themselves. Libertarianism does not recognize the fact that > some people are basically evil and out to take whatever they can get. Having > covered more than enough murder trials as a journalist, I can assure you > there are some people for whom the death penalty is not severe enough, but it > is the best we can do as a society to protect ourselves. > Furthermore, the environmental damage that such people and corporations can > cause is often long-term and sometimes irreversible. What would the > Libertarians have done with Saddam Hussein after he invaded, raped and > pillaged Kuwait? And then tried to destroy the oil fields once it became > apparent he would not be allowed to keep them? > There is a need for a government that can regulate and intercede BEFORE the > damage, rather than a lassez-faire approach that is only willing to punish > people AFTER the damage is done. > Sorry, but I regard Libertarians as foggy-thinking fools who do not live in > the real world. > > Respectfully but candidly, > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:27:47 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: NJC - What *Really* Happened In Florida Hi im not sure if this will get thru - i just thought it was kinda relevant,,,,,,,,,,,,,, from a local cartoon strip - we also had "recount problems" a while back (1995) <<...>> ron ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #603 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?