From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #601 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 601 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hand counts (NJC) [catman ] NJC - The West Palm Beach Story - Great bivariate charts [CarltonCT@aol.c] introspective Republicans? NJC [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: IMHO NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] RE: The "Hand Count" gambit. (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: NJC - The West Palm Beach Story - Great bivariate charts [MDESTE1@aol] RE: supposed mischief during the hand counts (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: introspective Republicans? NJC [catman ] Re: Clap-Trap Academic studies [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Conservative music NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: signing off (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20onlyJMDL=20Digest=20V2000=20#433?= [Mauski4648@aol.com] Re: Clap-Trap Academic studies [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: For Paul/Republicans (NJC) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Joni and politics (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Craziness Continues (NJC) ["Susan" ] Re: Look out the left the captain said.NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Conservative music NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: And then there is Wisconsin (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] egreetings ["william" ] Curse of the Electoral College (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) [jan gyn ] Re: Clap-Trap Academic studies NJC [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Conservative music NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Today in Joni History - November 12 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - November 13 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Conservative music NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Conservative music NJC [catman ] Re: Joni and politics (NJC) [catman ] Re: Conservative music NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] NJC Boys Don't Cry [catman ] Re: Today in Joni History - November 13 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Boys Don't Cry [Jerry Notaro ] Men NJC [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:41:41 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Hand counts (NJC) I can't speak for the people in the UK, only myself. I'd want to be sure the count was done properly and accurately. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 04:46:44 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: NJC - The West Palm Beach Story - Great bivariate charts A bunch of social scientists, economists and political scientists from CMU, Berkeley, Duke, Wisconsin etc. have analyzed the Palm Beach, Florida, results. View their reports at: http://madison.hss.cmu.edu/ - - Clark NP: Me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 05:25:58 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: introspective Republicans? NJC Richard writes: "Joni's appeal is that she is very introspective and reflective, which may appeal across a broad spectrum of political views, but will most appeal to those who have endured a good deal of introspection and reflection in their own lives. People who have found themselves 'on the outside' are more likely to reflect on their position. The 'outside' can be of many human experiences, being outside of a positive love relationship, or outside the power brokering of Washington politics. Perhaps a larger portion of the right never felt the need to question as much. " In my experience, Republicans are not introspective and are generally disdainful of any of those processes and they are largely uninterested in literature, poetry, theater, etc. and more inclined to cutting the budget of the NEA and eliminating funding for public radio and television. Instead of therapy, they are more inclined towards martinis, especially as drunken at country clubs after rounds of - yawn - golf. If you disagree with me, I will be the first to admit there is a liberal bias in Hollywood, the media and the arts because very few artists are Republicans. They have different pursuits and make their money in different industries and have less need for artistic expression. Most of them stop buying music after college. Look who shows up at the Democratic and Green rallies, and look who shows up for the Republicans -- I think Bo Derek was the best the Repubs could come up with this year, along with the perennial Charlton Heston. I grew up with a lot of Republicans, and they are not a compassionate bunch. Most of them have conservative views because they were largely born into environments that were favorable to them. They make the assumption that everyone else was born into the same world, so why should anything change? I know I'll be accused of making a broad generalization, but Republicans are very seldom even interesting as people, much less as romantic partners. I find them to be a dispassionate group who seldom feel strongly about anything. The few Republican friends I have dismiss Joni as someone who whines and feels sorry for herself. If a weakness of the Democrats is that they are more likely to be embroiled in sex scandals, the weakness of the Republicans is that they just aren't as interested in sex, which is just too bad. - - Clark NP: Holst, the Planets ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:10:54 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: IMHO NJC Vince opined: <> I agree with the gist of your chronology, Vince, but this statement calls for elaboration. The Republican party was formed, primarily, to oppose *the expansion of slavery* into the new Western Territories under the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. The act provided that the question of slavery in the proposed territories of Kansas and Nebraska would be left to the residents of each territory. This enraged many because it repealed the Compromise of 1820, which banned slavery in that area. The Republican Party was organized as an answer to the divided politics, political turmoil, arguments and internal division, particularly over the Kansas-Nebraska Act and slavery, that plagued the many existing political parties in the United States in 1854. The new party's platform was opposed to the expansion of slavery in the Territories under the act, to be sure, but did not endeavor to "free the slaves." I split hairs on the distinction because opposition to the Kansas-Nebraska act, the primary impetus for the formation of the Republican party, was not based solely on the abolitionist cause. For instance, staunchly democratic Southern Illinois was angered at the act because residents feared that opening Kansas to slaveholders would prevent the settlement of small farmers like themselves. Violently negrophobic, voters in this section wanted nothing to do with abolitionism. Others who would become Republicans were hostile to Kansas-Nebraska, but had no desire to see that opposition translated into the general anti-slavery movement. The Free Soil Party, asserting that all had a natural right to the soil, demanded that the government re-evaluate homesteading legislation and grant land to settlers free of charge. The Conscience Whigs, the "radical" faction of the Whig Party in the North, alienated themselves from their Southern counterparts by adopting an anti-slavery expansion position. All these groups, which had been marching under different banners, became Republicans. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:29:53 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: The "Hand Count" gambit. (NJC) Can you cite a source for the statement that half that US think the Democrats are trying to steal th election?? The only poll I've seen so far (Newsweek) said that a strong majority support the recounts, and believe it is more important that the process be accurate than t that it be speedy. I believe the numbers were 3 to 1 in favor of the recounts. Details: http://www.msnbc.com/news/488684.asp > > I know you all think Im wacky when I state that the Dems >are going all > out to steal the election but the truth is it is >real. > > You, and about half of the United States if not more at this point. Not to > mention much of the world, who are also watching this with a clear, fairly > objective view. > > Kakki > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:41:20 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - The West Palm Beach Story - Great bivariate charts In a message dated 11/13/2000 1:55:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << A bunch of social scientists, economists and political scientists from CMU, Berkeley, Duke, Wisconsin etc. have analyzed the Palm Beach, Florida, results. >> THIS is a joke, right ?? Gee Ill bet they resolve that the geezers were just stupid right ? With Berkeley and Wisconsin involved the outcome of any "study" is about the same as a James Carville poll. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:55:29 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: supposed mischief during the hand counts (NJC) I would really like someone to come up with a scenario where people will be able to manipulate the results of a hand recount under the eyes of Democratic AND Republican observers. Did anybody see TV footage of the Volusia recounts? There were cops standing by, and the whole thing was so rigidly controlled that they even lay down rules about what color paper and pencils the observers were allowed to use to take notes. > 3. There will now be a third count (second recount) by hand, requested by > Gore and carried out and "interpreted" only by officials from his > political > party. Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:54:59 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Clap-Trap Academic studies Notice the premise is that the ballot structure iscausing results that are "unique". It isnt. Notice the people involved. (Center for Women in Politics) Gee wonder how she feels about the election? This is absolute junk social science. We will see the loyal teachers unions undoubtedly come up with a ton of biased faulty "studies" before this thing runs its course. It discounts entirely that there are anomolistic results in virtually every election. Buchannan had 6000 votes in the same county in 1996. It also takes for granted that the entiree matter wasnt created by political operatives. Just like in Wisconsin. And the arrogant "Oh look what we found we better go "public". Lets not check firts with other professional political observers first or even look at another state or country. lets hurry over the the Clinton News Network and get this out right away. Nice lefty logic. I wonder if the "professor" fro the University of Wisconsin is on the trail of those ballot fraud operators on campus? Background According to several news accounts, many voters in Palm Beach, Florida, have claimed that they were confused by the ballot structure and may have inadvertently voted for Buchanan when in fact they intended to vote for Gore. The event prompted a discussion among several academic friends and colleagues about whether the results could be statistically detected, since Palm Beach county alone had the unusual ballot structure. One of the participants in the discussion, Chris Fastnow, a political scientist and director of the Center for Women in Politics in Pennsylvania at Chatham College (and who is also my wife) found the Florida county-level returns for the election on the internet at the CBS News website and passed them on to me. We reasoned that if enough voters in Palm Beach county were confused and mistakenly voted for Buchanan, it should be statistically detectable by examining the vote for Buchanan relative to the votes for Gore and Bush for all of the counties in Florida. As a first cut, I (Adams) did three simple plots: one of Buchanan's votes vs. Bush's votes, one of Buchanan's votes vs. Gore's votes, and one of Buchanan's votes vs. the total votes cast in a county (see graphs below). For all of the plots, all of the counties except one (Palm Beach) follow a pretty regular pattern. The more votes Bush got in a county, the more votes Buchanan got, and the number of votes that Buchanan got increases with Bush's vote by a fairly predictable amount -- except for Palm Beach, which has many, many more votes for Buchanan than would be reasonably expected, given all of the other Florida counties. Similar results hold for the plots for Buchanan's votes versus Gore's votes or versus the total votes cast. Again, Palm Beach sticks out as an outlier from all of the other Florida counties. The results seem to suggest that indeed something unique happened in Palm Beach county. Just by visual inspection of the charts below, it appears that instead of the 3407 votes Buchanan received in Palm Beach county, he probably would have received under 1000 votes, if the other counties in Florida are any guide. Within seconds of my seeing the results, a colleague of mine wandered into my office, saw the results himself, and urged me to make the results "public" as soon as possible. I hastily drafted an email to my dept., pointing them to a graph of Buchanan's vs. Bush's votes, which I had put up on my internet server. The email spread across the university and onward, which prompted a string of phone calls, emails, and so forth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:06:17 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: First-grade voters (absolutely NJC) Nobody raised any questions (at least nationally) about butterfly ballots and hanging chad, etc., in the last two presidential elections, because the last two presidential elections were not close enough for ballot irregularities to have made a difference. In both years, it was clear from the public opinion polls who was going to win. Here, in Florida, the election was excruciatingly close, AND the first vote count went counter to the exit polls. No wonder people started analyzing the ballots. > Exactly the same ballot Bill Clinton was elected with twice. I guess the > Demos won with illegal ballots twice. I guess when they win the Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:16:03 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: For Paul/Republicans (NJC) (md) The bottom line in all this is that beginning with FDR the Democratic party sought political advantage in conjuring up the issue of entitlement into our culture with they being the best party to dole out the goodies. kennedy gave it a big boost with his poverty tour in the 1960 election campaign and Johnson confirmed it in the Great Society handing out federal money like honey to all the same groups that make up the Democratic constituency today. The campaign to villify individual rights as opposed to the power of the Federal Government is the latest phase. Republicans simply stated have always been for smaller government and less intrusion. Republicans resistance to playing Robin Hood is the sole cause of their being a target for Demo-liberal hostility. Marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:25:19 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: supposed mischief during the hand counts (NJC) Are you saying that the validation for the decision will be shared with a "republican" "supervisor with each ballot. I dont think so. Sunday November 12, 2000; 7:34 PM ET Buchanan: Hand Recount Could Lead to Fraud and Vote Theft Pat Buchanan, who said last week that any votes he got by mistake in Palm Beach County, Fla., rightfully belong to Vice President Al Gore, said Sunday that Texas Gov. George Bush may end up losing the election because of "potential fraud and potential theft." Appearing on CNN's "Late Edition," host Wolf Blitzer asked Buchanan about those voters who claimed they double-punched their ballots for both Gore and Buchanan. BLITZER: Some people decided apparently that they weren't going to ask for a new ballot. They didn't know they could get a new ballot. And that's why they're saying they accidently voted for you, then they voted for Gore, discarding the entire ballot. BUCHANAN: Let's back away and get to the reality. Bush won the popular vote in Florida. Bush won the recount. The Democrats are demanding a recount by hand in four counties that are heavily Democratic. That not only lends itself to human discretion and human error, it opens the thing up to more than just mischief. I mean, a lot of those people can look up at those ballots and say, "Well, a tie, let's give it to our friend Al Gore." The machine is not going to give something to Al Gore that he didn't get. ... In a situation like that, that lends itself to potential fraud and potential theft, once you get human beings in there dealing with that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:51:44 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Exuberance, Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) > From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" > To: "_JMDL - June 98" > Subject: Exuberance, Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) > Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 03:49:36 -0500 > Reply-to: "Jim L'Hommedieu" > "Going For The One" by Yes. This is audio adrenaline. Boy, how about that whole album? I'll never forget listening to it for the first time, in 1976 I believe. It was a little different for Yes at the time but it was goood. I saw them in Atlanta shortly after. I really have a spot in my soul for that LP and the group in general. A Yes man, Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:39:14 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Spin (NJC) "Pitassi, Mary" wrote:But I think we've got to be very careful as to how we use > that word, and perceive that concept, as we discuss the election and related > topics on the list. I'd hate for "opinions that are the same as mine" to be > simply regarded as valid opinions, and opinions that are different, to be > labeled "spin." Mary, Reminds me of the old George (left leanin") Carlin routine: "Did you ever notice that anyone who drive faster than you is a maniac, and anyone who drive slower is an asshole?" Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:12:41 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: introspective Republicans? NJC > I grew up with a > lot of Republicans, and they are not a compassionate bunch. My experience of politcal and relgious conservatives is pretty much the same. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:31:04 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Recount probabilities (NJC) Saturday, Nov. 11, 2000 11:30 am EST Recount, So Far, Challenges Statistical Probablility No one knows statistical probability better than the folks in Vegas. Yesterday the Las Vegas Sun reported that the recount in Florida that has narrowed the gap for Gore by as many as 1400 votes so far does not jibe with statistical probability. The paper reported that University of Nevada at Las Vegas economics professor Tom Carroll "began running statistical equations Thursday on the net gains both Gore, who gained more than 2,200 votes, and Texas Gov. George W. Bush, who added about 700 votes, have made in the recount. He found that the statistical chances for such large and different totals to occur as a result of random glitches was less than infinitesimal." Carroll told the paper that the "The probability of being struck by lightning is about one in a million. The same person would have to be hit by lightning 30 times to compare with what we've seen in this recount." Carroll based his computations on the notion that ballots in Florida "were the result of computer or human mistakes." He added that "A recount is a 50-50 proposition, so statistically speaking, making up something like 1,700 votes is highly unlikely," Carroll said. "For this to have been just random error is statistically unlikely. It wouldn't be unlikely to see some changes in the number of votes during a recount, but the differences should come much closer to canceling each other out." Carroll is a Democrat. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:32:54 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: More recount reality- truth begins to surface (njc) With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff For the story behind the story... Friday November 10, 2000; 11:23 PM ET Democrat Mind-Readers Set to 'Reconstruct' Votes for Gore Republicans have good reason to be concerned about the presidential election hand recount set to begin Saturday in four heavily Democratic Florida counties. In Gadsden County, where even Wednesday's initial post-election recount was done by hand, nearly 200 votes suddenly materialized for Vice President Al Gore - while only a handful turned up for George W. Bush. Why the lopsided result? Because Gadsden County Democratic officials decided to use their own psychic powers to determine voter preferences while examining more than 2,000 unclear ballots that had been previously rejected by city voting machines. "Some voters colored in the circle for one candidate, crossed it out and then filled in a circle for another," reported the Palm Beach Post Friday. "Others filled in the circle for a candidate, then wrote the name of the same candidate in the write-in space, as if for emphasis." But the four Democratic officials that make up Gadsden County's election canvassing board decided they could "reconstruct" the ballots by trying to read the minds of the voters who filled them out. "The only ones we reconstructed were the ones we could tell the intent of the voter," Sterling Watson, a member of the canvassing board, told the Post. By the time the Democrat mind-readers were through with their vote recount, they'd conjured up 170 new votes for Gore, a mere 17 for Bush. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:36:33 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (njc) Kakki wrote: > I may be deluded but it has always been my understanding that a true > Republican, one who sticks to the original idealogy, is someone who > staunchly believes in individual rights to live your life the way you > choose. I think the original Republicans were more like the Libertarians of > today. That is true, but such ideology lent itself to the "perversion" you describe because the "individuals" who possessed liberty were in theory abstract but in reality very specific--male property-owners. A lot of recent (past 20 years) feminist, queer, and other political thought rightly points out, IMO, that "abstract individuals" are never abstract; they have differential levels of power and resources that greatly impact their ability to exercise liberty they supposedly possess. The myth of the abstract individual hides these differences under an ideology of "equality" and "freedom" that bears little resemblance to reality. Such ideology allows space for the Religious Right, for example, to wed their regulation of certain moral decisions to Republican (both little and big R) thought in that certain moral behavior becomes the prerequisite for citizenship, in a very real sense, which in turn entitles one to the protections of liberty. Yesterday it was property-owners; today it's heterosexuals. In structure, it's not all that different. Both the Democratic and Republican party have roots in the abstract individual model of liberty, and that is in part why the U.S. has had such a hard time correcting group power imbalances, both legally and politically. - --Michael NP: PJ Harvey, _Stories from the City, Stories from the Sea_ another MASTERFUL album from this legend-to-be ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:02:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Craziness (and History) - NJC As I drove to the train station this morning I listened to my daily dose of NPR. The program announced and Cokie Roberts and someone else were discussing (what else?) the election. I didn't catch the name of the third participant, but he made an interesting point (paraphrased): In 1876, when Rutherford B. Hayes won the Electoral College vote (but not the popular vote), he won by a very narrow margin of electoral votes ... and the key state was Florida! For his entire term in office, the supporters of Samuel Tilden (the Democratic candidate) referred to Hayes as "his Fraudulency." Dubya might want to be careful what he wishes for ... Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:07:50 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Clap-Trap Academic studies I don't expect anyone to be perfect but can we PLEASE TRY to remember the NJC tag for these political discussions. MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > Notice the premise is that the ballot structure iscausing results that are > "unique"..... - -- Phyliss mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:14:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Conservative music NJC Bob wrote: > And while we're at it, what do conservatives listen > to, anyway? Kerry replied: > Kathie Lee Gifford. to which I add: Pat Boone. Debbie Boone. The Andrews Sisters. The Maguire Sisters. Reruns of Lawrence Welk. Log Cabin types listen to old show tunes (but then again, so do most queens). Luckily (for the sake of office atmosphere), I've succeeded in getting the one guy at my job who I suspect is Log Cabin to listen to BSN -- and he likes it! Next, I think I'll slip DED into his CD-ROM when he's not looking. ; ) Lori in DC, wondering for no particular reason if anyone from the Cleveland area remembers the TV show "Polka Varieties" that used to air every Sunday at 1 pm for an interminable hour? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:21:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: signing off (NJC) > It's very exciting, and very scarey, but I figure > that i have nothing to lose and may as well 'walk on > the wild side' while i am young and free :-) Absolutely! Not to mention you have much to GAIN! Best of luck to you, Ange! Lori in DC P.S. If you can rejoin the JMDL from Thailand, we'd love to read your travelogue! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:23:20 EST From: Mauski4648@aol.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20onlyJMDL=20Digest=20V2000=20#433?= In einer Nachricht vom 13.11.2000 8:19:29 Uhr schreibt les@jmdl.com: << And for all her fluff about women's lib, she is the model of the type of woman they aspire to. Lots of reasons with this girl for libs to glam on to her. >> Womens' Lib and European Women's liberation groups did a lot of good work to prepare new laws and new settings..but there have always been women who lived leadership without being politically involved. They did it just by creating there own lifestyle. Joan Mitchell surely is one of those leading figures in my lifetime. She has shown me how to fight for female acceptance and freedom and now she is teaching me how to grow older without becoming an 'old woman' but stay young in mind and at heart, dressing in a very comfartable and chique way, never ending to explore a new universe in art, music and literature..keep on rocking girl. Karin from Germany ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:22:23 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Clap-Trap Academic studies <> This from the same person who posted an article from "newsmax.com," the offical and utterly biased Internet portal of the American Far Right, to support the specious notion that Gore and the Democratic Party are trying to "steal" this election? Cut me a break. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:32:46 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: For Paul/Republicans (NJC) <> We don't have a President-elect yet, but we do seem to have a new, self-appointed spokesman for "Demo-liberal" motivation! Welcome over from the Dark Side, my fellow American. :-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:57:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Joni and politics (NJC) Clark wrote: > If we are honest with ourselves, the real reason we > drive cars is because of the status they lend to us, > just as medieval nobles all had to ride on horses, > and never walk like the "pedestrians." Excepting folks who (as Colin pointed out) live in rural settings, I totally agree with Clark, and it especially shows in the U.S. East where most major cities have excellent public transit systems. Washington, DC, in particular has one of the cleanest, most reliable, and most reasonably-priced public transit systems, yet scads of people drive their cars - -- SANS PASSENGERS -- into downtown from 10 blocks away or less. (I work with a woman like this.) Then they bitch about the cost of parking ($9-$15 a day in most places). God forbid they should be so uncool as to ride the train -- or WORSE! the bus -- with the rest of us commoners. Afterall, their cell phone may not work the entire while!!! Lori in DC (who admits she should ride her bicycle to the train station and will do so beginning next spring) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:01:48 -0600 From: "Susan" Subject: Re: Craziness Continues (NJC) > Marcel post of Ap story: > > Faced with a cliffhanger election, the Democratic Party > directed a telemarketing firm on Election Night to begin calling thousands > of voters in Palm Beach, Fla., to raise questions about a disputed ballot and > urge them to contact local election officials. > So what's your point? Do you think they just pulled a rabbit out of their hats, apparently there was some validity to their concerns. You know what Marcel, I don't see any earth shattering law breaking taking place here. Not anymore than the moves to suppress the recount, revote and irregularities by Republicans. I think that each side has a legitimate stake at trying to secure a victory. For all your trust in the media and their reports, I wonder what happened to that left wing press we always hear about, from the right- wingers. Secondly, we all have access to these stories and can pick or choose the press we want to sight as well. For every story against the recount there is one for continuing the process. But the reality is that a 1700 plus lead has changed to 327. Granted, Bush still leads, but nationally to choose a president by 327 votes would make me want to be sure. Also it's certainly no mandate, since he did lose the popular vote. I hope we can all be patient on the side of fairness and if need be exhausting all of the legal challenges. I begin to wonder about the integrity of those who fight so hard to prevent revealing the truth, unless of course there is something to be revealed. Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:17:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Look out the left the captain said.NJC Colin wrote: > (if you didn't mean what i took you to mean, then > what i wrote still stands but doesn't apply to you.) This is brilliant and should be required at the end of each and every post to the JMDL! Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:11:49 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: For Paul/Republicans (NJC) (md) I think it's reasonable to wonder what people use "individual rights" for. Hasn't your life experience testified that in the West anyway, there appears to be an innately competitive aspect to human nature. Every generation has been the "me" generation, not just people who act more hedonistically than others. If a society acts to blunt some of the effects of competitiveness, I would not immediate condemn that society. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:17:24 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) In a message dated 11/13/00 12:23:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us writes: << I think Bush is a yahoo motherf*cker; that's my opinion ... This is cyberspace; all we are to one another (for the most part) are brittle little sentences, so why not celebrate our God given viciousness?>> i try to remember that there are people behind the words that are posted. so many times, i form opinions and try to keep them to myself because i think they might be hurtful to other persons on the list and on a good day, but not every day, i think it's better to suppress my need to express my opinions under neath the feelings of other people. i think that's driven from a sense of compassion which i think is given more freely from god than viciousness. it's easy to say...george bush is a mother f*cker...or a ...fucking idiot...or a ..ignorant, foolish idiot...or a....mediocre moron reflecting the mediocre qualities of his voters...etc. it's a lot harder to look the other way and hold in your feelings to respect other people than to reduce them to brittle little sentences. jan, which would you prefer i think of you as...jan the mysterious woman from i think..the west coast...who maybe has something to do with education..k12??? who has an edgy quality that's interesting..who probably can't stand the majority of my wimpy posts...who said she's not getting any sex......yea..this jan is someone i want read. or should i just think of you as some brittle little sentence who thinks george bush is a mother fucker. in that case, you're a jan i don't want to ever read. but the thing is, you're not as viscious as you'd like to be. patrick np. d henley - miss ghost ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:14:44 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Conservative music NJC So the ultimate conservative record would be "The Stars and Stripes forever" done as a polka. Easy enough. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:29:29 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: US Anthem (NJC) Judy Collins was quoted as saying: >"When I sing >the American anthem, I change 'brotherhood' to 'brother- and sisterhood,' " >said Collins, "so in the second verse of the Canadian anthem I will change >'sons' to 'sons and daughters.' Does the word 'brotherhood' show up in "Star Spangled Banner"? At least it's not in the verse we sing at the ballpark. :) Maybe she's thinking of "God Bless America". - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:49:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Conservative music NJC LAHM wrote: > So the ultimate conservative record would be "The > Stars and Stripes forever" done as a polka. Easy > enough. David! You should get to work on this right away! You could sell at least two copies to every citizen of Parma, Ohio! Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:54:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: And then there is Wisconsin (NJC) Marcel wrote: > In case there is any doubt about how Gore and the > Demos are trying to steal the election........ > GOP Reveals Massive Voter Fraud in Milwaukee > > The Republican Party of Wisconsin has released a > list of allegations of voter irregularity and fraud > in Milwaukee. Reportedly the District Attorney there > is now investigating: With the exception of this item ... > Incident: Poll workers told a voter to "vote > Democrat." ... I fail to see how any of the rest of these "incidents" proves that a particular party was trying to "steal" or influence the election. As for this one ... > Incident: UWM students voted on campus. Another > voter showed his off-campus address to a poll > worker. The poll worker told him, "You can't vote > here. Put down [address of dorm] instead." The same > student said friends were bragging about having > voted for Gore five or six times. ... It tells me only that a bunch of college kids have no respect for processes of government. What's new? The rest of the "incidents" sound like little more than massive ineptitude. I repeat: HAS ANYONE ELSE NOTICED THE DILUTION OF THE GENE POOL??? It's fine for the Republicans or the Democrats to expose voter fraud or irregularities; any self-respecting citizen should do the same. But to claim that these irregularities are some sort of "proof" that the cards were stacked against them smacks of Republican -- dare I say it? -- PARANOIA! And too much of it "will destroy ya." Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:07:54 +0700 From: "william" Subject: egreetings Forgive me if this is old hat but I've just found and there are three Joni offerings. Both Sides Now ( the latest version ), Help me and You turn me on ........ The perfect way to send wishes ( I sound like an advert ). Most pleased to have come across this site. Happy trails. Willy the Shake ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:16:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Curse of the Electoral College (NJC) From an informative article by Juanita Clemens, writing for theGully.com: "If this system sounds Soviet, it's because it shares with Lenin's utopia some of the same rationalist mistrust of the people." Read more at: http://www.thegully.com/essays/america/001110electoral_votes.html Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:33:24 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) (snip) ...(jan's) not getting any sex...... (snip) >patrick >np. d henley - miss ghost This pretty much nails me! - -jan :) off to take a cold shower... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 04:31:44 +1100 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re:signing off Thanks to everyone who emailed me with 'good lucks' and 'good byes'....it was so lovely to hear from you all before I go :-) I will be in touch. Ange XXX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:35:08 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Clap-Trap Academic studies NJC PLEASE! It isn't hard! If your post doesn't contain anything Joni related then put NJC in the subject line. It takes 2 seconds! (I am sick and tired of the Florida recount... they just need to choose Gore and get it over with!) NP-New Bohemians, 12/11/99-Spanish Style Guitar - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:10:28 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Conservative music NJC In a message dated 11/13/00 12:02:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@yahoo.com writes: << Parma, Ohio! >> d'agniecies is one of the best italian restraunts i've ever been in and that includes south philly, new york, and chicago and it is right there in parma ohio. marc cohn is from parma ohio. and drew carey is from somwhere near parma ohio. patrick np. bruce - tenth avenue freeze out ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:52:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 12 1994: Turbulent Indigo debuts at its #47 peak on the US charts. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:55:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 13 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performs in New Haven, Connecticut at the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. She performs the song "Jungle Line" from her just released new album "The Hissing of Summer Lawns". 1980: Today, Rolling Stone publishes a review of the album "Shadows and Light." It reads: "The extraordinary power of Shadows and Light, one of a handful of great live rock albums, took me by surprise, since Joni Mitchell is primarily a studio artist, not a concert performer... This is the finest ensemble that Mitchell has worked with, and her exhilarating vocals reflect her complete confidence in these musicians." Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/801113rs.cfm 1997: Today's Rolling Stone publishes a story called "Women of Rock: The Seventies" as says of Joni: "Her difficulties as a lover, she decided, involved the same character trait that prodded her art past the blander boundaries of pop: 'I'm a confronter by nature,' she concluded. 'I have a tendency to confront my relationships much more often than people would care. I'm always being told that I talk too much.'" Read it all at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/971113rs.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:27:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Conservative music NJC > << Parma, Ohio! >> > > d'agniecies is one of the best italian restraunts > i've ever been in and that includes south philly, > new york, and chicago and it is right there in parma > ohio. marc cohn is from parma ohio. and drew carey > is from somwhere near parma ohio. If I'm ever in Parma (and I don't know that I ever have been there), I'll definitely check out d'agniecies! When I was growing up, all the TV stations broadcast from Cleveland. A staple of humor on the local Friday night scary movie show (Hoolihan and Big Chuck) was to make fun of Parma and "Parma socks." Those are the white socks with two different colored bands that our dads used to wear. There's something about Drew Carey that gives me the willies, although I do occasionally find him humorous. Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:31:53 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Conservative music NJC > > > Log Cabin types listen to old show tunes (but then > again, so do most queens). > well I don't listen to old show tunes but i do like lumber jack types.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:35:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni and politics (NJC) "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > Clark wrote: > > > If we are honest with ourselves, the real reason we > > drive cars is because of the status they lend to us, > > just as medieval nobles all had to ride on horses, > > and never walk like the "pedestrians." > > Excepting folks who (as Colin pointed out) live in > rural settings, I totally agree with Clark, and it > especially shows in the U.S. East where most major > cities have excellent public transit systems. > > Washington, DC, in particular has one of the cleanest, > most reliable, and most reasonably-priced public > transit systems, yet scads of people drive their cars > -- SANS PASSENGERS -- into downtown from 10 blocks > away or less. (I work with a woman like this.) Then > they bitch about the cost of parking ($9-$15 a day in > most places). > When I lived in London we never drove into the city. It was far easier to go by public transport even to it is crap in London. If I had to get John from heathrow, I drove but I drove around London-about 80 miles because it was much quicker than driving thru-18miles! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:47:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Conservative music NJC Colin! > > Log Cabin types listen to old show tunes (but then > > again, so do most queens). > > well I don't listen to old show tunes but i do like > lumber jack types.... When I lived in Texas, you told me you liked COWBOY types! Which is it?? And just for the record, most of the Log Cabins guys I know wear a coat and tie ... don't you already have a man like that? ; ) Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:48:25 +0000 From: catman Subject: NJC Boys Don't Cry I just watched this film. No wonder Hilary Swank was nominated for an Oscar. The story was not what i thought it was. I knew it was about a girl who wanted to be a boy and lived as such but I didn't know about the tragic ending(for all concerned). I am sure there is another story concerning a girl pretending to be a man who was jailed for it. This wasn't it. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:50:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in Joni History - November 13 <<"The extraordinary power of Shadows and Light, one of a handful of great live rock albums, took me by surprise, >> First, thanks Les for picking the "Today in Joni History" back up. I enjoy seeing them, and I often go scan the articles after you reference them. And I remember being surprised by S&L as well! When it came out, I had kind of dropped Joni, since I never got Mingus due to the critical battering it took. Plus, at the time I was getting heavily into New Wave/Punk and away from major-label artists. But when I heard S&L (the radio played it in its entirety in the wee hours of a Sunday morning), I was blown away! Couldn't believe she featured the Persuasions, loved the "electric" take on Woodstock, and Michael Brecker was awesome. The Mingus tunes came to life...indeed, I think it was the first time I'd heard them, and it would still be many years before I picked it up. Anyway, this was a real culmination of some state-of-the-art musicians playing some of the best songs that have ever been written! I just wish they had included Jaco's solo! Hearing THAT for the first time was a whole 'nother experience... Bob NP: Croz, alternate take of "Laughing" from Perro tapes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:59:05 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Boys Don't Cry catman wrote: > I just watched this film. No wonder Hilary Swank was nominated for an Oscar. Not only that, she actually won it! Jerry np: Jeff Buckley - Live at Sin-e ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:59:01 +0000 From: catman Subject: Men NJC "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > Colin! > > > > Log Cabin types listen to old show tunes (but then > > > again, so do most queens). > > > > well I don't listen to old show tunes but i do like > > lumber jack types.... > > When I lived in Texas, you told me you liked COWBOY > types! Which is it?? I like cowboy types too! > > > And just for the record, most of the Log Cabins guys I > know wear a coat and tie ... don't you already have a > man like that? ; ) well John wears a suit and tie-very conservative looking! Buit it is rouse! To be honest I don't have a type. I find all sorts of men attractive. I do have a panchant for tall tho. As a guide: Richard Gere, Bruce Willis(since he got serious)-a bit short too-Keith Carradine(NOT his Kung Fu brother), Keanu, Niles from Frasier, there is a really tall long blonde hair country singer but I don't know his name, the tall English skinny guy with blue eyes whose name -oh Richard e Grant, Montel Williams, Jimmy Smits(LA LAW), Luka from ER and the bald guy, Anthony Edwards, George Clooney...... But best of all his John with his green eyes, dark hair, beard and mo, 6ft 1" and deeeeeep voice. (which actually irritates me at times cos it is difficult to hear!) > > > Lori > in DC > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! > http://calendar.yahoo.com/ - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #601 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?