From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #596 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 11 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 596 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- mark's seeing the light NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Michelle Shocked NJC [Eveline Klamt ] Santana for Pres (NJC) ["susan" ] Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Ballot stuff (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Elections NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: the rabbit died, don't tell PETA (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: mark's seeing the light NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees [Steve Anderson ] NJC Politics [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: birthday girl!!!! njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (vljc) ["Kakki" ] RE:: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) ["Garret" ] thanksgiving meal (njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: ballot details NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC)NJC [catman ] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: NJC Politics [catman ] Re: : Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:28:17 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: mark's seeing the light NJC mark, i'm so happy that you're enjoying rickie's music. she is a true artistic force in her own right. i have been immensely enriched as a musician by her influence. what albums have you got? i emphatically recommend the magazine and pirates, although whatever you buy will leave you crying out for more. this goes for you too, chris. god bless father patrick for leading you towards rickie. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Mark or Travis Enviado el: Sábado, 11 de Noviembre de 2000 04:22 p.m. Para: Christopher J. Treacy; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Doink? NJC Mark in Seattle - who's mind is opening just a wee crack & gradually letting this music in - after many years of being clamped shut. Are you reading this Patrick? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:53:31 -0400 From: Eveline Klamt Subject: Michelle Shocked NJC In defense of Michelle's legal hounds coming down on her music shared , she has spent years in court battles to get the rights to her albums back. That's why there hasn't been anything new released by her for 10 years. She's been writing and playing and burned up the stage when I saw her this spring, but she has not been able to cut an album. I can imagine that might make her real leery. Eveline p.s. very pleased to have found this site....thanks all....thrilled to be able to see Joni's paintings. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 17:53:20 -0800 From: "susan" Subject: Santana for Pres (NJC) BlankHi kids, I'm resting this weekend so I thought I'd check in. Lordy, Lordy! Hey USAman, get a REAL politician: Santana ;~) I'm just listening to his new release. What I wanna know is: How do you stop? :~D "...Hey all you lovers, put your lights on..." ;~) I'm back to work next week and I travel. Susan L.A. I am your angel :~) http://www.ladiesnlace.net/chelsea.htm Birds must have both a right wing and a left wing in order to perform their miracles-I stole that from Jim the man ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:02:33 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) In a message dated 11/11/00 12:26:57 PM, donbvs@lightspeed.net writes: << Yes, this is the joni mitchell list and therefore no surprise that it leans pretty far to the left most of the time. >> I, too, lean to the left most of the time. However, I can't help but wonder why Joni's list members as a group are so much more liberal than conservative. Why is that? Her subject matter hasn't been all that 'liberal' in 30 years (Big Yellow Taxi, Woodstock, Blue, for example). And as Joni has said, the problems she has these days are "rich people's problems." Can we therefore assume that left-leaning people generally have better taste in music? And while we're at it, what do conservatives listen to, anyway? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:49:25 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Ballot stuff (NJC) Hi Penny, you wrote: > I never said a word about a re-vote or about people casting >more than one ballot. Maybe I didn't make myself clear in >relaying the experiences of an "offical" counter in the state >of Oregon. It's not that you weren't clear - I thought your post was interesting as to hand-ballot counting aspects in other states and it just inspired other related thoughts from me. But I'm curious - I heard the other day that people in Oregon all vote by mail (and that's the reason given as to why it took longer than most other states to tally the results). If you vote by mail, do you still punch out holes in the ballot? I assumed you marked off the choices another way. > Like said, in Oregon, in the hand count process, when the > counters can clearly see the desired intent of that voter's >ballot, their vote is added accordingly to the tally. (Has >anyone heard how the 19,000 thrown out ballots are being >physically handled??) All I've heard is that they are disqualified because two holes (two presidential choices) were punched out. There's no information as to whether they took out a pen and circled their intended choice. People who had done this who have given news interviews only have said they double-punched, not that they tried to correct their mistake. Some said they asked for another ballot to redo but were refused.The people who refused them said they could not provide another ballot because the double-punched ones had already gone into the box. Kakki NP: CNN ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:07:41 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Elections NJC Don Rowe wrote: << I also can't help but think that a great deal of recent voter apathy stems in large part from "taking it for granted" that political elections are, for the most part, foregone conclusions -- a bit of window dressing for a decision already taken. >> Reminds me of two sayings: "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in" And Ken Livingstone, London's Mayor, once wrote a book called "If voting changed anything, they'd abolish it". Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:07:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees << She also made a comment before she performed 'Crazy Cries of Love' at the Gorge that there was a boot of it floating around. >> OK, you ain't gonna believe this...I was getting to burn a CD of this same show for a friend and thought I'd give it a spin first, just to enjoy it and make sure it sounds good. (It does...this one and Kanata, with Atlanta close behind, are the best shows she did in '98. Oops, can't forget the "Day In The Garden" show...that takes the proverbial cake! I heard that comment and was gonna post it to the list, then I read your post...damn, sometimes this synchronicity thing scares me! ;~) And if you haven't read the story, this show was when Wally met Joni for the first time...it's there on JM.com and is a very touching & affecting story with a great pic of Wally & Joni. Bob NP: "Slouching Towards Bethlehem", George, WA 5/16/98 PS: Anybody have a copy of the 5/17 show? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:57:04 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: the rabbit died, don't tell PETA (njc) Bob wrote: > Spawn of Evian... Ain't it great?!! Evian, I'm so thrilled for you and Tracy! Your child will be very lucky indeed to have you for a father. Can I be Aunt Kakki? ;-) Congratulations and all the best to you. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:59:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: ballot details NJC I saw a Florida voter on TV the other night who was being interviewed about his experience with the confusing ballot. He said it was the first time this style used. He said that he was a very experienced voter & was used to the names being in order, top to bottom, Rep, Dem, then the others. The arrows appeared to him to be pointing to the center of the ballot where the punch holes were, not to specific punch holes per name. I could see his point. So he voted Dem like in years past(he thought) by going to the second punch hole from the top. He said he had no idea he had even done it incorrectly until hours later when several of his friends were talking about the confusion & was horrified to learn he had voted for Buchanan. Also, he said that where he voted, you were only allowed 5 minutes to vote & there were a bunch of other things on the ballot, so there was time pressure to move along fast. Is this true? If so, how can this be legal? After hearing his explanation, I could better understand how so many were confused. And I can understand people being afraid to ask for another ballot or even wondering if they could ask for another ballot. Because I made a mistake on my ballot too. I erased, only to discover that it might be made invalid. I tried really hard to make it okay but realized I would have to go to the County Courthouse to get a new ballot (I was voting at home absentee the day of the election because our district is too small to have a polling place). There was a long line of voters who were having some kind of problem or another & it took a long time. I was a little embarrassed & worried that I might be treated like a moron for doing what I did (making a mistake). I tell you it brought up a lot of old stuff from old school test days & some anxiety as to whether they would even let me revote. All of this completely irrational as I got to redo it again & nobody scorned me! But I was very very careful to make sure I did it the right way. Lest you think I might be idiotic, I graduated Magna Cum Laude from a top University. I don't know all the legal implications but I sure hope whatever decision is made is on behalf of the empowerment of the individual voters. The most important issue to me in this whole mess is that each and every one of our votes is important & should count. Like many Americans, I am already cynical enough & borderline disenfranchized about our political system. I pray for some of the wisdom of our forefathers to be bestowed on this situation so that we as individuals feel like we have some say in our government. One more story: In spite of the fact that I had to spend a lot of time in line, it sure made me really happy to see that there were so many voters who would take the time & trouble to make sure their vote was counted. When I was walking into the Courthouse, there was an older man who was a little disheveled & confused about where to go to find the voting office. I showed him where I thought it was, as I was following the maze of signs & arrows. When he got up to the registrar, I overheard him tell the woman that he wanted to vote but he didn't have an address- when pressed he told her he was homeless. I almost started crying right there, because I could tell that he was a little embarrassed to have to say this but he was determined to get his vote in. However he was treated with respect & dignity & it seemed that they were going to be able to help him out. ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:14:30 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: mark's seeing the light NJC what albums have you got? The first one & 'Flying Cowboys'. It still bothers me that I often can't understand the words. And the whole 'hep-cat' persona she sometimes adopts still seems affected to me. But now I'm remembering hearing that first record and liking a lot of the songs on it. And 'Flying Cowboys' is wonderfully produced (and yes I have been known to diss 'Steely Dan' from time to time too - don't go there people - I can be stubborn & perverse & will turn the opposite direction if someone tries too hard to persuade me in that way) and has some beautiful music on it. But I think I can at last forgive Ms. Jones for disparaging remarks that I heard she once made about Joni's forays into jazz. Blood under the bridge, as they say. Besides. She writes a damn good letter! ;-) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:22:56 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) > << Yes, this is the joni mitchell list and therefore no surprise that it > leans pretty far to the left most of the time. >> > > I, too, lean to the left most of the time. However, I can't help but wonder > why Joni's list members as a group are so much more liberal than > conservative. Why is that? Her subject matter hasn't been all that 'liberal' > in 30 years (Big Yellow Taxi, Woodstock, Blue, for example). Maybe we're not listening to the same records. 'Sex Kills', 'Magdalene Laundries', 'No Apology' - Joni has included at least one song with a left leaning, semi to blatant, political theme on all of her records since 'Dog Eat Dog.' She may have rich people's problems but her concerns about the environment and the corporate greed that is threatening to swallow us all up is well documented. I think she's more out-spoken that she was in her early years. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:24:57 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees > And if you haven't read the story, this show was when Wally met Joni for the > first time...it's there on JM.com and is a very touching & affecting story > with a great pic of Wally & Joni. > > Bob It was also the only time I got to meet Wally. A great show, indeed. And thanks to the list, I have it on tape & can relive it whenever I want. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:35:11 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) << Back in the late 70s, weren't punk & new wave supposed to be a reaction to over-produced, progressive rock? >> Sure, and than it all begat the MTV video scene and the big hair bands which then got a swift kick by Nirvana, which then bred grunge, which then became a parody of itself. Anyway, you're right, the wheels go round & round, I love it and it's so neat that Joni's been there the whole time, cranking out her own vision, oblivious to trends & fads, with only a couple little exceptions...;~) Bob NP: Hejira from The Gorge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:42:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Take a River break! Go wash yourself in the river! A nice cover of Joni's "River", that is...here's all you have to do, and trust me, it's easy. Even *I* did it! 1. Go to http://pages.vpro.nl/3voor12/zapcentral.shtml 2. Do a search on artists for "Bettie Seervert" 3. When it comes up, go to the far right of the screen, and play their cover of River! 4:39 of jangly Joni bliss! 4. Don't thank me, thank Monica in Holland for the tip! And also, speaking of Holland, Monica also tells me there's a new record by a Dutch jazz singer named Caroline de Rooij with another cover of River! Any Dutch JMDLer's who can step up and find this one? Hopefully it'll be a Dutch treat, not a Dutch rub! :~) Bob NP: Facelift ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:38:02 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) Mark wrote: > Maybe we're not listening to the same records. 'Sex Kills', > 'Magdalene Laundries', 'No Apology' - Joni has included at >least one song with a left leaning, semi to blatant, political >theme on all of her records since 'Dog Eat Dog.' She may >have rich people's problems but her concerns about the >environment and the corporate greed that is threatening to >swallow us all up is well documented. I think she's > more out-spoken that she was in her early years. A few months back on the list someone posted a link to a recent interview with Joni where she came out against Bill Clinton with a few remarks that some people here would not find complimentary. Not one person commented on this here. My point is that just because you don't have regard or agree with one particular individual of a political party does not automatically nullify all your sensitivity or goodness or worth. It's just an individual right to choose. Concerns about corporate greed and the environment are not the sole province of the left and it is really unfair for one group to think they are the only ones with a claim to goodness. I'm not referring to you specifically Mark, because I've always thought of you as one of the more fair and balanced people I've ever met. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:55:18 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) > Sure, and than it all begat the MTV video scene and the big hair bands which > then got a swift kick by Nirvana, which then bred grunge, which then became a > parody of itself. Anyway, you're right, the wheels go round & round, I love > it and it's so neat that Joni's been there the whole time, cranking out her > own vision, oblivious to trends & fads, with only a couple little > exceptions...;~) > > Bob Carry on, Music Slut! Here's to ya! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:58:18 -0600 From: Steve Anderson Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees I am new to the list and saw Joni a couple of times. Saw her on the Miles Of Aisles Tour and Hejira tour with Pat Metheny and Jaco. Noticed some discussion about live performances and have to chime in. If someone didn't record all these legends years ago there wouldn't be any record of any of their music. Someone taped all of Charlie (Bird) Parkers solos and they released it legit years and years later to document the time period. Carlos Santana put out a cd called Sacred Songs which had live Coltrane, Hendrix, Marley and Marvin Gaye among others which were never released legitimately before. There is definitely a historic place for these things. Look at the Grateful Dead thousands of hours of their performances have been traded in excellent soundboard quality and now they themselves are putting out 3 or 4 live releases from the vault and the fans still buy them. These other artists are missing the boat when they don't do the same. A friend of mine supplied the Doors tapes of shows they didn't have for release on their box set. Now for my question how can I get a some live Joni? I especially like her Blue period and have some things from other times but not many and would like to get some good quality recording. I live in Oklahoma and Joni is not played here at all. Anyone be willing to make me some of the cd trees for B and P or I have lots of Dylan to trade. Any help would be appreciated. I did sign up for the video tree but I do not have the first video tree so if anyone would be so kind to make me a copy I could do whatever. Thanks for any help. Steve Anderson Mark or Travis wrote: > > > << if so, is the > > continued operation of your trees due to jonis acceptance of the > idea. >> > > > > Joni knows about the tape trees/CD trees/exchanges, and doesn't seem > to mind. > > At least that's what I understand...in one of the interviews she > talks about > > live performance and how she knows they are all being recorded and > will > > become permanent documents. > > > > Bob > > She also made a comment before she performed 'Crazy Cries of Love' at > the Gorge that there was a boot of it floating around. I first heard > the song when the Gene Autrey museum concert was broadcast. That > version was later on a tape tree and there was another one of the > finished cut on another tape tree. I think she knows. I think she > also knows that it's her devoted fans that are doing this and that we > are not stealing any revenue from her. We're doing it because we love > her music and want to share the live & rare stuff. We also eagerly > *purchase* every new release she comes out with. I'm sure she knows > that & either blesses our sharing or doesn't care that we do it. > > Michelle should get over it! She should be glad that her fans care! > > Mark in Seattle > PS: and many kudos to Bob who is wonderful about sharing his music and > all the others who regularly step up to the plate to make copies for > us. Also to Simon, Ashara, Sherrie Goode & Barbara Burst for putting > together such great tape, cd & video compilations to tree. > You guys rock! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:13:54 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Judy Collins draws Canadian Ire ..and the home of the brave. - -Julius <> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:33:31 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) > > My point is that just because you don't have regard or agree with one > particular individual of a political party does not automatically nullify > all your sensitivity or goodness or worth. It's just an individual right to > choose. Concerns about corporate greed and the environment are not the sole > province of the left and it is really unfair for one group to think they are > the only ones with a claim to goodness. I'm not referring to you > specifically Mark, because I've always thought of you as one of the more > fair and balanced people I've ever met. > > Kakki > The lines seem to become more blurred all the time, don't they? I doubt that Joni subscribes to any particular political party or group either here or in Canada. Joni strikes me as much too independent in her thinking to go along completely with any one philosophy or religion or train of political thought. She takes whatever truth she discerns in everything she learns about & forms her own ideas & opinions. For the record, my brother is staunchly Republican. He voted for Reagan & Bush and even admits to voting for Nixon. I make it a rule never to discuss politics with him. Partly because I love him, partly because I have to honestly admit that I don't keep myself that well-informed. So as a general rule I don't join in political discussions. I will say that I recognized a lot of the anger that was in Clark's post about political parties as being deeply ingrained in myself as well. Watch the film 'The Band Played On' or read the book some time. That's part of what makes me lean one direction rather than the other. But I certainly don't think my brother is evil. I enjoy his company & we seem to love & appreciate each other at this point of our lives more than we ever have. I also don't think he wants to take away my civil rights or would be against my having the right to marry Travis. Quite frankly, when I do take the time to listen to the evening news or read a newspaper article about a candidate or issue, I don't know what to believe anymore. There is so much 'spin' on everything - statistics can be slanted or distorted to fit almost anyone's point of view. In that regard, the debates were a farce, as far as I'm concerned. And I've gotten to where I almost don't believe *anything* that is in a political ad. Here in Washington state the senatorial race between Maria Cantwell & incumbent Slade Gorton is also 'too close to call' and probably won't be decided for some time. During the last few weeks before the election, Cantwell ran an ad saying that Gorton was in favor of a proposed open pit goldmine in central Washington that would use an extraction process involving cyanide. The ad showed an explosion on a mountainside and then cut to footage of children as concern was expressed about cyanide polluting the water. Gorton followed this up with an ad that said 'Maria Cantwell is losing and is saying desperate things. Now she is saying that Slade Gorton wants to blow up mountains & poison children.' That may not be an exact quote but it's pretty damn close to the voice over for Gorton's ad. Both of these ads were blatant attempts to push emotional buttons. How much truth is in either one of them? How can a voter make an informed choice with all the spin & emotional rhetoric coming from both sides? Yes, both sides. I have to agree with Kakki on that one. I don't know that I even trust the media any more than I trust the politicians. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:45:13 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's left-leaning fans SJC i confess that i too have been left-of-center most of my life, although as i grow older, i don't have a lot of patience for liberals sometimes -- but don't tell anyone. i've never really thought of joni as a liberal!!! in fact, i have always considered her ''naughty'' but pretty conservative. maybe that's one of the aspects that drew me to her: much though i've loved every minute of my political struggles in argentina, i could never shake my fist at lightning ALL the fricking TIME!!! been there, done that. i needed a break. joni has always been more of a bourgeois pleasure to me. almost a guilty pleasure, if you knew some of my battlefield companions... i guess i am gradually going through THE CHANGE, which contrary to the majority's opinion is not menopause but the transition from left-winger to liberal to bourgeois to moderate eyebrow raiser. i want to have a partner, i want to have a home, i want to have a dog. i'm not sure that i will be fleeced with the martha stewart flock any time soon, but i may be going there! wallyK, out of touch with the breakdown of this century? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:50:32 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: birthday girl!!!! njc she is a pioneer jonifester! she's my favorite movie critic! she's pippin's girlfriend! she can melt my heart! SHE IS FERTILE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHE IS JULIE Z WEBB AND SHE IS HAVING A BIRTHDAY! weird minor chords anyone? love you julie! rise from lurkdom, please! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:54:14 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: NJC Politics Kakki, pretty much on the button as usual, wrote: << Geez, whatever happened to the "moderate" view in the U.S.? >> To which Marcel replied: << Clinton has polarized the entire country by one half having to defend his breaking of the law. Twisting decades old legal precedent into tacit approval of his literal committance of serious crimes. Our country has been severely divided by this man and his race baiting, class warefare campaign strategy. >> So Clinton is responsible for the disappearance of the moderate view? That sounds a tad far-fetched to me. As for race baiting and class warfare, come ON! You make the man sound like some neo-Marxist pinko. Little though I know of US politics, this is patent nonsense. I would say the Democrat party as a mean (taking into account that there is a greater range of views within it - and within the Republican party - than in any parties here) is somewhat to the right of the Labour party in this country, which is itself barely to the left of centre. The left (as I understand it - and I'm not saying my view is better than yours, but it's certainly as valid) has all but vanished from mainstream politics in America and here, which is why Ralph Nader is such a striking anomaly, and why Old Labour stalwarts here like Tony Benn and Dennis Skinner are regarded as relics, and looked on with indulgence or even affection by the right; they no longer pose a threat. You can't get a cigarette paper between the two main parties here on most issues, and I know a lot of Americans feel the same about Dem & Rep. After all, the world is run by multinational corporations, isn't it :-) Azeem in London, getting cold in my draughty flat - AND I've got a sodding mouse in the flat now. I told it to fuck off ('scuse my French, but my language can become very intemperate when I'm addressing small rodents), and has it taken a blind bit of notice? NP: Match of the Day ("proper" football ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:00:44 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: birthday girl!!!! njc > > SHE IS JULIE Z WEBB AND SHE IS HAVING A BIRTHDAY! > weird minor chords anyone? Ah yes! Julie Z Webb! Go ahead and applaud the girl! She is gone but she is NOT forgotten, at least NOT by ME! She could tell you to kiss my tookus and plant a tree for Israel.....oops! That was Sophie Tucker, wasn't it? Sorry JMDL, I don't know what came over me, I.... Well anyway, HAPPY BIRTHDAY JULSIE, MY SWEET! Did I sing Happy F**king Birthday yet? I didn't sing it yet, did I??? Your Divine Mr. M. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:58:50 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (vljc) > I doubt that Joni subscribes to any particular political party >or group either here or in Canada. Joni strikes me as much >too independent in her thinking to go along completely with >any one philosophy or religion or train of political thought. >She takes whatever truth she discerns in everything she >learns about & forms her own ideas & opinions. Right on, Mark. > I will say that I recognized a lot of the anger that was in >Clark's post about political parties as being deeply ingrained >in myself as well. Watch the film 'The Band Played On' or >read the book some time. That's part of what makes me >lean one direction rather than the other. That anger is completely understandable to me. > But I certainly don't think my brother is evil. I enjoy his >company & we seem to love & appreciate each other at this >point of our lives more than we ever have. I also don't think >he wants to take away my civil rights or would be against >my having the right to marry Travis. I may be deluded but it has always been my understanding that a true Republican, one who sticks to the original idealogy, is someone who staunchly believes in individual rights to live your life the way you choose. I think the original Republicans were more like the Libertarians of today. It seems that at some point there were a few factions that glommed onto the party and gave it a bad name. We all know what those factions are. Their original ideology of upholding individual freedom has been greatly perverted by the sway of those factions. There have also been factions that glommed onto the Democratic party over the years which have also undermined their ideology. If the left wing on this list could see my life's voting record on the issues I'm sure I would be "approved." I don't agree with many of Bush's stances, and I certainly don't think he's perfect or an attractive candidate. But I am like Pat - I do not trust Gore or anyone associated with the Clinton world. Period. I've had 8 years to observe them, so this is not a rash judgment. In fact, I started out really liking Gore years ago and having a very positive opinion of him which continued until just recently. Ironically, I initially had a very poor opinion of Bush, Jr. which continued until not too long ago, toor. There are many complex reasons why people vote the way that they do. Those who want to pidgeonhole our choices or preferences into set-in-stone inflexible terms should scare us, really. They want to divide so they can conquer. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:39:10 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) Bob, i too found Kid A irresistable . it was refreshing to finally get something new from Radiohead. the album appealed to me on multiple levels- it was new and different, musically gripping, and showed signs of much work- invented or natural? that was what disturbed me.i was confused- was it natural or was the album contrived? Radiohead had always shown distain for fame. they didn't appreciate the attention that fame brought. it was/is concieveable that Thom Yorke was trying to distance himself from thepublic eye. but the sales are good. and there's a tour to promote the album- so....what's going on? creating the album almost tore the band apart. was it Ed O Brien or Phil Selway that wanted it to be an album of 12 three minute pop songs? in some minds the strain shows. to others, it is art. i think Kid A is harder to listen to than previous Radiohead albums, but it is more rewarding. Yes, Bob, i do think Joni would appreciate it. ferociously sparse, it is breaking new ground. but i think we'll have to wait and see teh bands next work to understnad where this one is coming from. i've heard that a secind album from the same sessions is due out. and then, i read somewhere, they would like to release Eps on a semi regualr basis. more accessible tunes! anyway- as far as great guitarists go......isn't Jonny Greenwood one of the most impressive of recent years? GARRET NP- Tori- Father Lucifer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:31:41 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: thanksgiving meal (njc) Hi Wally- Good luck on you food interview. I think since Thanksgiving is upon us, it is appropo to go there. In my neck of the woods (no matter what neck that was at the time) it always meant lots of food, lots of family, lots of music, and lots more food for days. My mom always cooked way to much and we would have leftovers for days (a GOOD and bad thing). I cook my mothers traditional meal with a few of my own inventions and adaptations. Mother always had the following menu: Turkey (Roasted) Stuffing (cornbread and stale bread base) Ham (Baked with the pineapple pinned to the sides) Oyster Casserole (yes the same one I put in the Joni Cookbook) Green Bean Casserole Stewed Tomatoes (sometimes) Cream Corn (sometimes) Mashed Potatoes Turkey Gravy (made with water added from the boiled potatoes for extra BAM) Cranberries or Cranberry Sauce Candied Yams Creamed Onions Bread Heavenly Hash (Grapes and nuts marshmellows in a whipped cream sauce) Pumpkin Pie (with FRESH whipped cream) I make the same dinner now for my family and friends who don't have family to go to for dinner. Sometimes I even have people I don't know over for the same reason. It's awful for me to be alone on holidays and while I am no replacement for anyones dear old mom, I think togetherness is so wonderful around the holidays. My additions to the meal are as follows: I usually fry a whole Turkey as well as the roasted one. This is done outside in the yard in the same big old pot we use to boil crawfish in on a gas flame. The bird (after being massaged with lemon and lime by me for a good 45 minutes) is injected with seasoning (with a large syringe) My seasoning scheme is a closly guarded secret. Corn Casserole (instead of Creamed Corn) Brussel Sprout Casserole (lots of garlic in this and cheese) I hope this little corner of NorthAmericana (out of respect for Garcia Marquez) is helpful to you. Paz P.S. If your mom (in the third world country of Florida) was a real man, she would put a few jalapeno peppers in her Hush Puppies. Of course I have another story about her trapesing around the french quarter in some High Heeled Hush Puppies, but that's another story for another time. ;-} P.S.S. While we are on Thanksgiving I would like to hear dome other peoples dishes for Thanksgiving. I am feeling like a may need to add another dish to this meal of mine and what better venue to get a recipe from. Lets hear what you got jmdl??? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:40:40 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: ballot details NJC In at least two states First Grade teachers now have each had their classes of 6 year olds use the same ballot and vote for candidates. Guess what. Not one 6 year old first grader got it wrong. Not one. About 60 six year olds. In San Francisco we have used the same ballot for over 8 years without one complaint. This idea that somehow these ballots were difficult or misleading is just 100% wrong. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:10:33 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC)NJC > > > The lines seem to become more blurred all the time, don't they? > > I doubt that Joni subscribes to any particular political party or > group either here or in Canada. Joni strikes me as much too > independent in her thinking to go along completely with any one > philosophy or religion or train of political thought. She takes > whatever truth she discerns in everything she learns about & forms her > own ideas & opinions. Surely this is the responsibilty of all of us? To make our minds up, to live accoirding to our conscience and not follow someone elses truth. I don't subscribe to any particular belief or political ideology. Why? Because I have never found one I agree with 100%! Besides which, I have come to understand what personal responisbility means therefore I have to stand on my own and not say'my party, my religion, my parents, my society etc taught me this'. If we are to be accountable, i woulkd be embarrassed to say 'well, that is what I was taught'. I'd rather hang for my own honest mistakes than because I didn't dare to question or think for myself. I also think it is difficult to be black/white about people and their beliefs. I have met left wingers who are just as rabid and immoral as any right woinger and right wingers who are liberal in ways one wouldn't expect. Tonight there was a documentary about one of our comedians, Bernard Manning. My first insticnt was to turn it over but we watched it. My view of him being a foul racist homophobic mysogynist is now not so clear. The program was balanced in that the people talking about him were pro and anti. He was shown making to most offensive jokes. But this man is one of the very few showbusiness people who do charity work for NOTHING! He has been extrememly kind to people, obviously loves his family. Does not allow swearing etc at home yet evry second word is fuck or cunt when he is working. I find that mans manner and jokes offensive yet I cannot now say i found him to be in his entrirety. Life can be evry simple when we do make things clear cut, bad or good, but we delude ourselves by doing this and also hurt others in the process. The stuff wars and ethnic cleanising and homophobia etc are made of. No one is all bad or all good. Yes even those who pride ourselves as being good and non agressive are lying to ourselves if we cannot see the potential in ourselves for doing wrong or even committing something awful. To say'he/she doesn't have an agressive bone in their body' is to delude ourselves and to not see that someone as a human being. Push enough and you will see that agressiveness. Anger and agressiveness are necessary parts of us in order for our survival, to pretend we don't experience these feelings is dangerous. The more 'rabid' someone is about their beliefs, the more admanat they are in their 'rightness' the more afraid they are Those people who have had to pull themsleves up from the gutter either physically mentally or spiritually usally have compassion and understanding. Thos who boast of having done this and who sneer at those beneath them are lying. Those who look down upon others of a different belief system are also bullshitting themselves, more so than those who think and hterefore see thru them. In the end, none of us knows what is right and wrong. Not one of us knows what TRUTH is. We can only formulate an approximation of it according to our meaning structures and experience.We cannot be ojective, it is impossible. We assimaliate everything according to our meaning structures and eexperience. Even the physical world we do not see as it is but only as our brain and ist structures determine we will see it. It would seem that the less pain in your life and the less pain you cause others, the closer one is to Truth. Just because people have different meaning structures and life experience from us does not make them bad and us good, or them stupid and us smart. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:06:42 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: RLJ NJC Wally wrote 'what albums have you got? i emphatically recommend the magazine and pirates, although whatever you buy will leave you crying out for more. this goes for you too, chris.' Were you referring to me? This Chris has owned both titles on vinyl since he was 14. Now he's 30. Cheers, Chris. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:20:17 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) In a message dated 11/11/00 4:23:14 PM, I wrote: <> To which mark.travis@gte.net responded: << Maybe we're not listening to the same records. 'Sex Kills', 'Magdalene Laundries', 'No Apology' - Joni has included at least one song with a left leaning, semi to blatant, political theme on all of her records since 'Dog Eat Dog.' She may have rich people's problems but her concerns about the environment and the corporate greed that is threatening to swallow us all up is well documented. I think she's more out-spoken that she was in her early years. >> Sorry my original post was so badly worded; I certainly didn't mean to imply that I thought Joni had abandoned liberal causes or themes in her music over the years. I even thought of a couple of the songs you mentioned while I was writing that post -- plus "Cheroke Louise" and "Not to Blame" -- so I should have more correctly said, "Her well-known subject matter hasn't been all that 'liberal' in 30 years." Mea culpa, but I've been trying to prepare dinner and plan a seduction today. :-) But as far as public perception goes, I would guess that when *most* people think of Joni, they think of her folk years and her songs from that period. And if that's the period and those are the songs that most people identify with Joni, maybe they assume her politics are *too* liberal. (I was shocked to hear some of the comments from audience members as I was leaving Joni's Boston concert in May. Even her "fans," or people who like Joni enough to buy tickets to her concerts, are still looking for the friggin' dulcimer.) Anyway, with all the associations folk music has thoughout its long history with liberal politics and communism, I guess my muddled thought is that maybe that is one reason why conservatives don't seem to care for Joni. In any case, Joni is one of the most gifted artists of our time. But there are many artists who are farther to the left. What is it about her that keeps consevatives from enjoying her music? I hope this post makes a little more sense. Now I have to go find something to wear that makes me look thin. Wish me luck, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:25:18 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Politics AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Kakki, pretty much on the button as usual, wrote: > > << Geez, whatever happened to the "moderate" view in the U.S.? >> > > To which Marcel replied: > > << Clinton has polarized the entire country by one half having to defend his > breaking of the law. Twisting decades old legal precedent into tacit approval > of his literal committance of serious crimes. Our country has been severely > divided by this man and his race baiting, class warefare campaign strategy. > >> > > So Clinton is responsible for the disappearance of the moderate view? That > sounds a tad far-fetched to me. As for race baiting and class warfare, come > ON! You make the man sound like some neo-Marxist pinko. Little though I > know of US politics, this is patent nonsense. I would say the Democrat party > as a mean (taking into account that there is a greater range of views within > it - and within the Republican party - than in any parties here) is somewhat > to the right of the Labour party in this country, which is itself barely to > the left of centre. The left (as I understand it - and I'm not saying my > view is better than yours, but it's certainly as valid) has all but vanished > from mainstream politics in America and here, which is why Ralph Nader is > such a striking anomaly, and why Old Labour stalwarts here like Tony Benn and > Dennis Skinner are regarded as relics, and looked on with indulgence or even > affection by the right; they no longer pose a threat. You can't get a > cigarette paper between the two main parties here on most issues, and I know > a lot of Americans feel the same about Dem & Rep. After all, the world is > run by multinational corporations, isn't it :-) I have been enlightened to see how similar this govt is to the last. Those who satnd up for human rights are reguallry scorned and mocked. It seems that only the Greens here have a truly humanitic agenda yet I would not be surpised if that turned out to be something completely different if they ever got in power. Childsih as I am, I have never understood how we are treated as subordinates by the police forces, the medic, the govt etc when they are all there to serve US! We pay them, we elect, them we are the employers! Why do we give our power away so easily? > > > Azeem in London, getting cold in my draughty flat - AND I've got a sodding > mouse in the flat now. I told it to fuck off ('scuse my French, but my > language can become very intemperate when I'm addressing small rodents), and > has it taken a blind bit of notice? > > NP: Match of the Day ("proper" football ;-) - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:30:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: : Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) << i've heard that a second album from the same sessions is due out. and then, i read somewhere, they would like to release Eps on a semi regualr basis. more accessible tunes!>> I guess time will tell...I can guarantee you that I'll pick it up as soon as it comes out, whatever it is...thanks for all the information! I must confess that I don't know much about the band. Except for "Creep" I hadn't heard of them until I saw the video for "Fake Plastic Trees" and was just blown away by the song. Figured the rest of the album would suck but got it anyway - boy was I pleasantly surprised! The book of "100 Essential Rock CD's" (the book you gave me at Ashara's, Kakki) puts "The Bends" on it's list, and it's also one of my personal faves. Bob NP: Bette Midler, "Do You Wanna Dance", Oakland Arena, 12/10/99 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:35:33 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's left-leaning fans (VLJC) In a message dated 11/11/00 5:00:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << A few months back on the list someone posted a link to a recent interview with Joni where she came out against Bill Clinton with a few remarks that some people here would not find complimentary. Not one person commented on this here. >> Bit if I recall correctly, Joni's comments were critical of Clinton's personality, not his politics or the way he was doing his job as president. Paul I ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #596 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?