From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #595 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 11 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 595 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT [byron bentley ] Election Telemarketers (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) ["Kakki" ] The hand count (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] The illegal ballot (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] NJC PLEASE!!!!! [sem8@cornell.edu] Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: the rabbit died, don't tell PETA (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Precedent/Levels NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] NJC - Those Damn Politicians/CD Trees ["Greer, Ron" ] Re: NJC - Those Damn Politicians/CD Trees [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] yeah right [Yael Harlap ] Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) [mags ] [none] ["Dave and Beth Fairall" ] Re: yeah right NJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) [Don Sloan ] NJC Bush and me [catman ] Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Isnt it Interesting. Election issue observation.(NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.co] 4 general discussion ["P. Henry" ] N - JC reminder [Mark Domyancich ] Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees ["Mark or Travis" ] Alternatives to Joni ["william" ] Re: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] Doink? NJC ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: Doink? NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Craziness [Penny ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:27:05 -0800 From: byron bentley Subject: Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT Hello John: That's easy. Go to the record store and find the Joni Mitchell section. Close you eyes and choose any three. If you find you already have one of them, put it back and you will buy those two. If you don't have any of them buy all three. These are the ones you were meant to have. If Hejira is not one of the choices, cheat. REPEAT OFTEN Byron John Stilwell wrote: > Greetings all: What Joni discs do you experts suggest next. After Blue > (which is a masterpiece) and Hits (I love) What comes next? I'm looking to > pick up two or three more! > > Thanks, John ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 04:01:00 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Election Telemarketers (NJC) Marcel mentions this news item. << WASHINGTON â “â “ Faced with a cliffhanger election, the Democratic Party directed a telemarketing firm on Election Night to begin calling thousands of voters in Palm Beach, Fla., to raise questions about a disputed ballot and urge them to contact local election officials. >> But what we have also seen on the news is Pat Buchanan acknowledging that he should not have gotten the "spike" of 3,000 + votes for himself in West Palm Beach, and that is now, quite clearly, enough to turn the election in Gore's favor. We can also be assured he got most of the 19,000 votes thrown out for being double punched. What is outraging the mostly Jewish population of this area is that they accidentally voted for someone who is a Holocaust denier. We have to have a re-vote. Personally, I think people on this list should stop calling Bush a moron. He's an idiot. Or rather, a fucking idiot. So pissed off, Clark NP: Radiohead, Kid A -- ahhhhhhhh! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:51:57 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) > I think the Demos may say things 'mean', but they're not as > misogynistically or homophobically vicious about it (must be a testosterone > thing). > -jan Compared to who? Anyone and everyone who didn't vote for Gore? Seems to me some Demos like to slur everyone who doesn't agree with them with the most evil, not to mention incendiary, possible labels. Lump in everyone who doesn't follow them absolutely. That's liberal and open-minded? People who don't want Gore as President are not all ignorant, hateful, misogynistic, homophobic, gun-loving, fascist religious nuts just as people who don't want Bush for President are not all lying, cheating, amoral, pinko, antichrist, anarchist, socialist totalitarians. Can we maybe agree on that? Geez, whatever happened to the "moderate" view in the U.S.? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:15:30 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Craziness, The election (NJC) >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:01:27 EST >From: MDESTE1@aol.com >Subject: Re: Craziness, The election (md) (NJC) > >In a message dated 11/10/00 5:19:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, >richard2sf@earthlink.net writes: > ><< I say this woman is dangerous, and if our knowledge of Bush and Cheney > isn't enough to make us understand that we must get out the vote for Al > Gore and Joe Lieberman, then let's do it to stop this woman from impacting > further on the political scene!" > > Christine Fox, Ph.D. > Educational Research and Measurement > College of Education > The University of Toledo >> > >When you start calling people "dangerous" you reveal how either parnoid you >are or you need to have real evidence as opposed to the diminishment of >federal funding for junk -science political organizations masquerading as >serious science reasearch organizations being reduced. This is yet another of >those vicious attacks that liberals claim all the time only the conservatives >make. Hillary can commit real crimes and coverups and shes treated like Joan >of Arc. Lynn Cheney who has actually run a governmental department is >"dangerous". Exhibit A, the looney left. I respect the intelligence and sensibilities and sensitivities of everyone on this list; there are so many human facets. I just watched (yes the media again) Ted Koppel Nightline Town Meeting, Friday evening, and so many things came clear. We could be headed for a constitutional crisis. We're already in a political one. This must stop soon. There are many dark and slippery slopes and roads we could go down. Let's not go there. We don't have to. We are a nation of rationalists. Sexist as it sounds, the Founding Fathers had some mighty high ideals and did their best to express them and record them. (ok, there were Mothers . . . but really... it was 1776). They did not record anything other than the one Election Day. Sure we have modified, well...added to constitutions: local and federal. But those Originals did not intend for there to be revotes. They didn't record that scenario. That, and to avoid 'tumult and disorder', caused them to create the Electoral College. Is it a bad thing? The ballots of that many (what's the lore now? 19,000?) people are a bad thing. Is this the first or only time this butterfly thing (or any ballot thing) has happened? No. Has there ever been a federal re-election by a state? No. I can see that there will be no end, there could be endless discord and disruption without an administration, so there must be a softening, and a realization of what has and is happening in this country. The guys 'in charge' have to step up and grow into the mature democracy that we think we are on this planet. TO live in peace. I guess I'm a peacenik. But as a nation, we hold that role and it is clear, more so than ever, that we are not perfect, nor super-organized, nor calm and mature and orderly. Neither are we a dictatorship/autocracy. So? . . . democracy is messy. Life is messy. So? Clean it up! Who made the mess? We *all* did, have been for years. It's a time to take a step back and re-do this election process and this-national-trust-we-call-a-country thing. There, I just *had* to say all that. No matter who gets the 'vote' next week or . . . whenever, he (still men leaders) will have a challenging term of office that few, if any, American presidents have had. And he who doesn't get the 'vote' will have a challenge to his integrity that few men get in life. It *would* come to this here, in America: the country divided, one against the other, our national karma. Either way, it is a draw at this point in my humble oppion. Thanks for letting me rant. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 02:11:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) Penny, A lot of the stuff surrounding the ballot mess is not because people don't want to give any regard to those people who messed up their ballots. There are a bunch of laws surrounding the handling of the ballots. From what I heard on NPR, many of the people who double-punched had already put their ballots in the ballot box. When they asked for a new ballot to re-do it, the person overseeing that polling place could not, by law, give them another ballot once the original ballot went in the box. The overseer is not allowed by law to open up the ballot box and take the "bad" ballots out. It's easy to say let everyone re-vote but truly you must consider that some people would change their votes now that they know how the election is turning out. It's would be giving an unfair advantage no matter how noble the intention and it would set bad precedent legally. Jim is right that everything that the courts allow can be used in the future in other cases. Usually courts take the long view on deciding these things and they also have to strongly consider existing law and precedents. The only pure and untainted way to rectify this situation is to let the whole country vote again. I'm not saying one way or another that this is what we should do, but it would be the proper "protocol" in this instance. I was talking with a co-worker tonight about this situation (she voted for Gore) and we both were laughing about this - not laughing at the people who messed up their ballots in Florida - but because we both are totally certain that these mess-ups had to have happened in all 50 states this election. There is always a margin of error in any kind of statistical undertaking and it is probably exponential in the more populous states, some of which could also have a significant effect on the final count and the awarding of the electoral votes. What amused us, in a good way, is that this whole situation WILL be ultimately beneficial for the country. A number of states have already voluntarily begun re-counts and I would bet that many other states don't want to be left behind in this process, either. I know that if I were the voting honcho whatever in charge for a particular state, I'd want to make damn sure to audit my results and get a clean bill of health so to speak, so that no one could later point any finger at the way my state conducted the voting process. It's almost like a forced audit of the whole bunch, and that is a great. There is a great silver lining in this chaos. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 06:53:00 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: The hand count (NJC) The fact that the Republicans are considering a court challenge to the four hand counts gives the game away. One of the reasons the Democrats want a hand count is that the machine fails to read ballots where the hole didn't punch completely out. A hand count would catch those votes, which in Palm Beach County are likely to skew Democratic. If the courts grant the Republicans an injunction against the Palm Beach hand count, the election will have been well and truly stolen. Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 06:53:02 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: The illegal ballot (NJC) Couple of points: The illegality of the Palm Beach County ballot - it's not just the punch holes being on the right. Maybe that doesn't apply to machine-counted ballots, I don't know. But the statute also requires that the candidates are listed according to what percentage they won in the last gubernatorial election. The Reform Party did not come in second in the last election! Yet they are second on the ballot. Part of the confusion of all these "dumb" voters might be that they just automatically expected the two major party candidates to be listed first. It's not a stupid assumption, and in fact, we find out that their assumption was a legal requirement! Second, the fact that the Democrats started warning voters before the polls closed about the problematical ballots shows to me that the issue is NOT one of sour-grapes losers. They started the complaints before any results were known. I'm sorry to all those (esp. non-US) who aren't obsessed with this issue right now. I myself can't think or talk about anything else. Glad to see we're all remembering our NJC tags. Deb Messling "I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat." ~Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:40:08 -0500 (EST) From: sem8@cornell.edu Subject: NJC PLEASE!!!!! This joni only please begs that you NJC your election comments!!!! Thanks, sue ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:49:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: WHAT DISCS TO BUY NEXT << If Hejira is not one of the choices, cheat. >> LOL!!!! John, hopefully by now your assignment is clear...I expect a full report after you've given it about 5-10 spins.... Bob NP: Joe Slomp, "Takin' it to the Streets" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:01:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) << NP: Radiohead, Kid A -- ahhhhhhhh! >> Boy, is this a great record or what!?! I bought it a couple weeks ago and can't seem to stop playing it. Overall, it's unlike anything I've heard before, even though pockets of it do remind me of other things. I was afraid after reading the reviews that the band had gone off the deep end and made it very inaccessible, but it's actually one of the easiest things to listen to I've heard all year. Parts of it remind me of the things I used to hear on NPR's "Space Music" show, other songs remind me a lot of Smashing Pumpkins "Adore" in their powerful beauty. The only other albums that have affected me this way with their overall texture are Hejira and "So" by Peter Gabriel. The rhythm section in particular...how in the world to they know what to play? The songs are simultaneously structured and unstructured, certainly not given to simple drum beats, yet all the music is so flawlessly executed. Radiohead is truly redefining the boundaries of popular music. I hope Joni has heard this, I feel like she'd enjoy it. The whole record sounds like a soundtrack to a dream to me...it would be a great record to count ballots by! ;~) Bob NP: Joe Slomp, "Living Proof" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:05:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: the rabbit died, don't tell PETA (njc) << Good Lord.... me as someone's father.... that's kinda a scary thought if you really think about it! >> Ohmigod...I'm trying not to! ;~D Spawn of Evian... Just kidding pal, congrats on the good news and the blessing you've been given. And trust me, when you have a kid, you almost get to return to your own childhood. Since you're already there (I don't WANNA clean my room! I wanna watch cartoons!) you'll be a natural as a Dad. Too many parents are so concerned with disciplining and instructing their kids they forget to just kick back and have FUN with them and laugh! Just promise me you won't fight with your child over toys! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:33:26 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Precedent/Levels NJC Hi Vince, Sorry to hear that you were not successfull this time. But remember Lincoln who lost many, many races then went on to serve during a crucial period in our history. Thanks for the insight into bad precedent. My opinion is open to new information like yours. :) I don't have any preconceived ideas about this and don't actually even prefer one candidate over another- just glad that we have a legal process to handle these procedures instead of the reckless will of the people as displayed on TV news. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:15:08 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) Whoa Jan! The thread was defending Dems attacks on George Bush. You said, >I think the Demos may say things 'mean', but they're not as >misogynistically or homophobically vicious about it (must be a testosterone > thing). Are you saying that it's awful when Republicans slam women and gay people but when Democrats slam white men it is just fine?? Why did you bring misogyny and homophobia into this? "Politically incorrect" is incorrect even if the target is a white man, right? Jim, a white man. (Not particularly proud of it, just stating where my political antenna is...) "Maybe it's paranoia maybe it's sensitivity. Your friends defend you scrutinize me." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:24:19 -0600 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Craziness (NJC), USA Election (LONG) (md) Marcel writes: "As usual the law being cited by the democrats that makes the ballot "illegal" is a canard. The "on the right" issue is a statute that applies to ballots not part of an electrical tabulation process. Clearly these are being counted electronically. So as usual the Demos are obfuscating the issue with fabricated assertions that they know are invalid. " Marcel, although I'm no expert on Florida election law, I think it's a little more complicated than that. From what I've heard from various pundits on cable news: yes, the law cited by the Democrats refers on its face to written ballots. However, there is another provision in the statute stating that electronic ballots should meet the standard created for written ballots *as closely as practicable,* or words to that effect. One commentator opined that, since just about every other electronic ballot in Florida met the written ballot standard more closely than those in West Palm Beach, then clearly, the latter did *not* do so "as closely as practicable." Now I'm not saying that I don't fear the Pandora's box that would be opened if we began examining all ballots in Florida with that kind of microscope, or that court intervention might not drag this out forever, but those really are separate issues. The fact is (in my opinion, at least), there *do* seem to be grounds here for a legal challenge. At least, the claim, if one is filed, does not appear to be frivolous. I don't believe the Democrats are "obfuscating the issue with fabricated assertions that they know are invalid." I believe they think they won the election, and that they have a valid basis for challenging the result. Marcel also wrote: "Jeb Bush has but a judge refuses. they are stalling for time hopefully to stretch things out long enough to deliver another "lock box" of bogus votes. " That's a very serious allegation. Have there been claims of election *fraud* in Florida? The last I heard, both sides were in agreement that none appeared to have occurred: although the ballot in West Palm Beach may have been "confusing," I am aware of no claim that the "confusion" was engendered by any deliberate action to bring about that result. Ditto for the 19,000 votes that were invalidated, or any other irregularity. If representatives of *either* party tampered with votes or ballots, then the wrongdoers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Finally, Marcel wrote: "It is just this kind of tactic that they use to try to parse their way out of every illegal act they have committed from withholding evidence to lying under oath. They fabricate an issue and then with the help of their lapdog media try to twist the argument. Historical precedent is absolute on this sort of objection. tainted ballots are thrown out. period. By the way so far the only judge to rule in the favor of the Dems is a significant campaign contributor married to a Demo operative who refused to recuse herself." To which I reply, WHOAH. *Any* Democrats, Marcel? I've been a registered Democrat for most of my adult life, but the last time I looked, I've never tried to "parse [my} way out of every illegal act [I've] committed from withholding evidence to lying under oath." Neither have those of my friends who happen to be Democrats, including those who may work in the "lapdog media." Your feelings and thoughts about the current U.S. administration are well known, but I respectfully suggest--and yes, I DO sincerely enjoy the diversity of political opinion on this list--that generalized attacks of this type which list few specifics and no names do little to advance a healthy debate. Respectfully, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:47:03 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) Yael Harlap said, > Here we know that a large number of votes > were in error, and we know why. Now me: Again, I disagree. We don't _know_ what the heck happened. Maybe they were protest votes. Why not? What if someone didn't punch anything? Does that mean that we "know" that they _intended_ to vote but were confused, and therefore we should give them a second chance? No, we have decided in advance, how to process votes. Butterfly ballots are used all over the place and have been used for a long time. I agree that we should _consider_ reforming the ballots which may confuse elderly or uneducated or illiterate or reckless voters. Maybe Florida, with its unique populace, should have led the way in this regard and didn't. Maybe we should all consider a new rule, (carefully considered and discussed first) that specifies a re-vote if double-punches exceed a certian threshold. That threshold should be considered in advance and carefully, deliberately debated and decided. But not right in the middle of an election! Finally, do we want our Presidential race to be decided by voters who are so reckless in their voting that they don't take care to do it right? What is that? Government by the stupidest, imposed on the rest of us? Adams would be spinning! Obviously it's not my call. I'm putting my faith in the system, even if, this time, it comes down to lawyers. This is what the legal process does best, IMHO. They rationally dissect every possible point and make an informed, measured, intellectual decision. It's a time for cool heads and the legal process can certianly provide that, er, those. "Stay the course. A thousand points of light all focused on a single spot." Jim L'Hommedieu ps- I'm quoting President Bush, not endorsing Governor Bush. PPSS- I certianly empathize about the confusing ballot however. I mean, if my 74 year old Dad came out of the voting booth confused, I'd feel badly for him. I'm not a monster. It's just that counting should be an intellectual process, not an emotional one. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:53:51 +0200 From: "Greer, Ron" Subject: NJC - Those Damn Politicians/CD Trees hi i really cant wait for this whole election story to be dead & buried (if only the politicians could be dead & buried too.................not a practical idea, but it has a certain kind of an attraction) it seem like all the lists are full of it. even the humour lists, with the general consensus here in south africa being that bush is the preferred candidate, so that you to, can have a taste of bush politics, a president who comes from the bushes, you have a president bush, we have a bush president,,,,,, gore jokes seem to have been a bit slower in coming - just like gore i suppose (please note - the racialistic jokes in no way reflect a racialistic point of view - just a determination to laugh at almost anything, sad really) anyhow, a serious question - you guys seem to have a wonderfully arranged & functioning cd/tape/video tree arrangement. suitably inspired by what i saw (i only joined last week ) i went about setting up a cd tree on a small michelle shocked mailing list i run. the recordings i proposed to "tree" were some recordings from live radio broadcasts, and a recording of a live show. it was only a matter of days before a fax arrived from michelles lawyers threatening me with all kinds of hellfire, damnation & brimstone, and even worse, a lawsuit. since the list is a "fan" list, i withdrew the cd tree, well actually i had withdrawn it on the advice os someone else who had tried a similar thing, before the lawyers letter arrived what is the position? can they really take action against a totally non profit making distribution of live radio and/or shows? if so, is the continued operation of your trees due to jonis acceptance of the idea. i have no intention of re starting that tree - im just curious............ ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:09:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Those Damn Politicians/CD Trees << if so, is the continued operation of your trees due to jonis acceptance of the idea. >> Joni knows about the tape trees/CD trees/exchanges, and doesn't seem to mind. At least that's what I understand...in one of the interviews she talks about live performance and how she knows they are all being recorded and will become permanent documents. Bob NP: Fiona Apple, "Criminal" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:16:54 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: yeah right Marcel said: >So as usual the Demos are obfuscating the issue with >fabricated assertions that they know are invalid. I'm sure Buchanan said that those votes couldn't actually be for him and that they were for Gore because he wants to help the Democrats. Yeah, Buchanan wants Gore to win so he is helping the Democrats in their fabrication. I don't think so. - -Yael, who thinks that both Republicans and Democrats lie (but that this ballot thing isn't a fabrication) - who is going to make it up to the highest level in politics without lying? Sadly, no one, the way things are at this point. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:22:09 -0600 From: mags Subject: Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > Are you saying that it's awful when Republicans slam women and gay people > but when Democrats slam white men it is just fine?? Why did you bring > misogyny and homophobia into this? and mags writes: thing is Jim....if misogyny and homophobia are not part of the conversation, then they should be. The absence of such issues is very telling. this of course is IMHO Mags > > > "Politically incorrect" is incorrect even if the target is a white man, > right? > > Jim, a white man. (Not particularly proud of it, just stating where my > political antenna is...) > > "Maybe it's paranoia > maybe it's sensitivity. > Your friends defend you > scrutinize me." - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:46:00 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Less than a week!! To sign up for VideoTree #2!!! Sign up now at: http://www.jmdl.com/trading/leafsignup.cfm Operators are standing by! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 08:49:20 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Rock Stars and Requests - NJC hi bob, yup, I'm pretty sure about it... I also did backstage work, in one capacity or another, for Aerosmith, Todd Rundgren, Bob Segar and others and I was accustomed to the nuance of people getting high before, during and after shows... as I said, I seriously doubt even his bandmembers did any drugs. I think there may have been wine though... I think rather that the tight guitar security had more to do with the generally radical crowds his music tended to draw back then. pat - -- On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:43:15 Murphycopy wrote: > >In a message dated 11/10/00 1:31:03 PM, badwolff@angelfire.com writes about >Ted Nugent: > ><< when it was time to mount the stage, I had to take it (his guitar) out of >the case *with* him and walk *with* him, both of us holding the guitar, one >hand on the body, one hand on the neck, all the way on to the stage... >> > >You mention Ted Nugent's "total abstinence from any use of drugs" in your >post. Are you sure about that? Why didn't he just carry the guitar in its >case to and from the stage area? > > --Bob > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:58:59 -0600 From: "Dave and Beth Fairall" Subject: [none] Good idea, but you know the Republicans would never let that happen, as the outcome would no doubt give the election to Gore. Bush is more then willing to get in however he can, and the fact that his entire tenure will be tainted is irrevelent. I just wonder what the "liberal media", {Limbaugh, George Will etc}, would have to say if a re-vote was allowed. Let's not forget the NAACP, as Kweisi is stirrin up his constituients as well, pursuing allegations of racial improprieties. It'll be interesting to see how the Republicans spin this one if the election stands as is, a tough 4 years ahead for them no doubt. DF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:12:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: yeah right NJC For what it's worth, my grandmother lives in Palm Beach County and she was confused by the ballot and accidentally voted for Buchanan and feels terrible. She has complained to election officials. No fabrication involved in this case... - --- Yael Harlap wrote: > Marcel said: > >So as usual the Demos are obfuscating the issue > with > >fabricated assertions that they know are invalid. > > I'm sure Buchanan said that those votes couldn't > actually be for him and > that they were for Gore because he wants to help the > Democrats. Yeah, > Buchanan wants Gore to win so he is helping the > Democrats in their fabrication. > > I don't think so. > > -Yael, who thinks that both Republicans and > Democrats lie (but that this > ballot thing isn't a fabrication) - who is going to > make it up to the > highest level in politics without lying? Sadly, no > one, the way things are > at this point. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:01:38 -0800 From: Don Sloan Subject: Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) jan wrote: <> Come on, Jan... the demos *may* say mean things? talking shit is talking shit. It happens on both "sides" and to say it is worse or more evil on one side than on the other is a bit of a stretch. It's one thing to say "John did this and that. It's a matter of public record and I don't agree with what he did and don't think it is good for our country." That's fine. But then to add the tag, "He's a moron" or "beady-eyed" or "frat boy" or whatever... what's the point of that and how does it add to civil, open discussion? Yes, this is the joni mitchell list and therefore no surprise that it leans pretty far to the left most of the time. But i would like to think that given the obvious quality of people on this list, a reality that is revealed in every digest i receive, we could rise above the name-calling (and worse), even when discussing politics. don ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:16:31 +0000 From: catman Subject: NJC Pissing down well there has been no let up here. It has pissed down all week and today is particulalry wet and windy. Floods and more floods. Our garden is now a swamp and has has been for a couple of weeks. Fortunately the house is fine. The poor sods who have been flooded indoors for weeks must really be feeling bad I sould think. Of course this all the fault of the Republicans, especially Marcel, with all those noxious emissions! ( i know this is true cos when the weather news shows us the satellite pics, all those clouds come from the USA ) - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 17:22:11 +0000 From: catman Subject: NJC Bush and me On my road trip in the USA back in 97, I was accosted by a drunk. It was not a good experince. Today, I have finally been able to put a name to that man. I have taken the required steps to bring this fiend to justice. I can't really tell you anymore as it is all very hush hush right now. But I can tell that one in the hand is certainly better than two in Bush. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:37:39 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Craziness, the Election, and the Arrow (NJC) (md) In a message dated 11/11/00 1:14:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Geez, whatever happened to the "moderate" view in the U.S.? >> Clinton has polarized the entire country by one half having to defend his breaking of the law. Twisting decades old legal precedent into tacit approval of his literal committance of serious crimes. Our country has been severely divided by this man and his race baiting, class warefare campaign strategy. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:48:11 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Isnt it Interesting. Election issue observation.(NJC) One of the most important changes in all politics over the last ten years if not longer has been the overwhelming daily pounding away at the American Mind with Polls. Polls Polls. Polls Polls. Polls. Evereywhere you turn. All the time. Now we have the single most bizarre circumstance evolving in the election for President and all of a sudden as the Democrats try to pull off their Coup De Tat and the entire country is disrupted and ther votes have been recounted twice but the Demos stall and the influence peddling "will of the people tour" blares away, all of a sudden we have NO POLLS. Not for one night,but for one full week. I would have to think that if "the polls" demonstrated that what Gore is doing is good we would hear all about "the polls". gee I guess those polling organizations are just sitting around on their hand swondering when they should take the next poll. This is dishonesty. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:53:24 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: 4 general discussion hi gang, the following is a reply I made to a note someone wrote to me and, FWIW, I thought it might interest some of you... cheers, pat NP: A Case Of You - Diana Krall (live) http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/ ":o), yeah, to tell you the truth, I find it a bit staggering myself, even now... Joni was SO cool as a person and to me a mentor... I don't know how much you've hung around entertainers but there is a certain 'breakthrough' of ego that one goes through as they bridge the gap from stagefright to feeling right at home in the spotlight with everyone staring at them and hanging on every word. I think the advent of karaoke may have softened this gap some but it's still there... experience tells me that most people don't handle this well and the adjustments one makes usually bring on a sort of primadonna effect. I recall one time there was this rather good folk- blugrass-ragtime player named Bob Simpson who I called up in Detroit to see if he wanted a weekend... I had known him since I was 15 playing in my first coffeehouse in a detroit suburb and knew this guy was a codeine addict as he kept a bottle of pure codeine in the pick compartment of his guitar case. anyway, he vaguely declined and I told him ok and hung up and dutifully called around and found a female duo that had played before and they agreed to play. well, the weekend came around and, as you've probably guessed by now, both acts showed up! I want to tell you, the sheer tension of having these three people in the same room was unbearable and the hostility toward one another, and toward me, was unbelievable! generally speaking you're just better off not having two performers in close proximity at any given time... it's kind of like nationalism... they almost have to despise the other to justify their own existance. wow, I really went off there, didn't I? LoL!!! at any rate, my point is that Joni was totally different. in fact, it really amazed me how nurturing she was toward me as a musician and would sit there and take in my whole set and clap and wistle louder than anyone... and when we would jam, she would ask me to play stuff, and actually sit there and listen to the whole thing! (or join in...) when I hear her going off on Jewel or someone and see the reactions onlist I know that people really don't understand. it's NOT selfish as they assume... her bitching is about the trashing of ART and not about comparing herself to others or visa versa. (she's usually dead-on too, IMHO) think about it... how many musicians have you ever seen get romantically involved with other musicians? not many... it's usually with a non- musician. (Carly Simon, a notable exception) ...but look at Joni and her love life... this is REALLY different! almost weird... even her bands have been mostly her friends! think about it... :o) take care, pat" ps - as an afterthought, this may also partially explain the brevity of some of these pairings... Joni could handle it but the guys couldn't. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:55:21 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: N - JC reminder Everyone, Please remember to use the NJC tag in your subject line if your post doesn't pertain to anything Joni. This includes the Florida recount ordeal. Gracias, - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:03:15 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: - Joni's awareness of our CD/Tape Trees > << if so, is the > continued operation of your trees due to jonis acceptance of the idea. >> > > Joni knows about the tape trees/CD trees/exchanges, and doesn't seem to mind. > At least that's what I understand...in one of the interviews she talks about > live performance and how she knows they are all being recorded and will > become permanent documents. > > Bob She also made a comment before she performed 'Crazy Cries of Love' at the Gorge that there was a boot of it floating around. I first heard the song when the Gene Autrey museum concert was broadcast. That version was later on a tape tree and there was another one of the finished cut on another tape tree. I think she knows. I think she also knows that it's her devoted fans that are doing this and that we are not stealing any revenue from her. We're doing it because we love her music and want to share the live & rare stuff. We also eagerly *purchase* every new release she comes out with. I'm sure she knows that & either blesses our sharing or doesn't care that we do it. Michelle should get over it! She should be glad that her fans care! Mark in Seattle PS: and many kudos to Bob who is wonderful about sharing his music and all the others who regularly step up to the plate to make copies for us. Also to Simon, Ashara, Sherrie Goode & Barbara Burst for putting together such great tape, cd & video compilations to tree. You guys rock! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:16:19 -0600 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) This *IS* a good record. And yet-- the circumstances around it are pretty strange. See, Before Kid A and OK Computer -- Radiohead was pretty much your average rock band with your average rock audience. Now that they've turned to trying artistic things with their music, music fans like myself have jumped on board. However, the old rock audience still remains. And for some people, this record is the greatest thing they've ever heard. Well, yes-- it *IS* if all you've been listening to is mindless MTV rock for the past 5 years. The record has gotten universal attention due to their wide fan base-- but its also been universally misunderstood. Its not some divine gift to earth-- its a damn good record that places Radiohead among a long list of people that have turned their backs on mainstream music to persue artistic endeavors. Sometimes great legions of people follow them, sometimes they turn away. No more "Creep" for Radiohead. period. Its a really good exercise to listen to both "Kid A" and "OK Computer" together. I feel that, though both are very strong, I end up liking "Kid A" better due to the focus that is placed on the musicality. The lyriscs of Kid A are minimalistic at best-- whereas OK Computer was a word-based album. Kid A seems to let Radiohead finally break free of their roots as a modern rock band, and let them see what they can really do. As for the comment about being "too out there"-- I say bring it on! Take an album like Tori Amos' "Boys for Pele." IMHO, this is one of the greatest albums ever done. And yet-- its unlike anything else that has ever been done-- even by Tori. Kid A is similar to Boys for Pele-- but I think that it could still go a step further. I think we've got some really great things to hear from Thom Yorke in teh future. eric SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: << NP: Radiohead, Kid A -- ahhhhhhhh! >> Boy, is this a great record or what!?! I bought it a couple weeks ago and can't seem to stop playing it. Overall, it's unlike anything I've heard before, even though pockets of it do remind me of other things. I was afraid after reading the reviews that the band had gone off the deep end and made it very inaccessible, but it's actually one of the easiest things to listen to I've heard all year. Parts of it remind me of the things I used to hear on NPR's "Space Music" show, other songs remind me a lot of Smashing Pumpkins "Adore" in their powerful beauty. The only other albums that have affected me this way with their overall texture are Hejira and "So" by Peter Gabriel. The rhythm section in particular...how in the world to they know what to play? The songs are simultaneously structured and unstructured, certainly not given to simple drum beats, yet all the music is so flawlessly executed. Radiohead is truly redefining the boundaries of popular music. I hope Joni has heard this, I feel like she'd enjoy it. The whole record sounds like a soundtrack to a dream to me...it would be a great record to count ballots by! ;~) Bob NP: Joe Slomp, "Living Proof" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:16:21 +0700 From: "william" Subject: Alternatives to Joni Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for Joni, like tonight. Alternatives? Annie Lennox's Diva is going through my head. (Because I'm far away from home and have to rely on play-it-in-my-head) Diva. Primitive. Sends me every time. To where you might ask. To the here and now and the past and the future. Why. Tell me why. It touches me. Annie's a Joni fan. It shows. ........ to the water's edge and we can cast away those doubts .......... Such a good album and an alternative to, Joni day-in-day-out. I am not in love, though I'm open to persuasion. Downstairs in Danny's All-Star joint they got a juke box that goes doink doink. Seems lately when I walk down the street there's somethin' in my neighbourhood. Odd how they are all women. Women how they are all odd. How odd are they all women. A bored Willy the Shake and looking for alternatives. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:45:32 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) > This *IS* a good record. And yet-- the circumstances around it are pretty > strange. See, Before Kid A and OK Computer -- Radiohead was pretty much > your average rock band with your average rock audience. Now that they've > turned to trying artistic things with their music, music fans like myself > have jumped on board. However, the old rock audience still remains. And > for some people, this record is the greatest thing they've ever heard. > Well, yes-- it *IS* if all you've been listening to is mindless MTV rock for > the past 5 years. I find this interesting. Back in the late 70s, weren't punk & new wave supposed to be a reaction to over-produced, progressive rock? In some ways those trends were a 'return to roots'. A stripped-down, rawer & wilder rock & roll. So called 'art rock' was considered a dinosaur. With the possible exception of Patti Smith who made wilder & rawer into art. Now with electronica and other so-called 'new' styles, the tide seems to have rolled back the other way. I just can't keep up with all these new-fangled trends & thangs! Mark in Seattle - just sittin' here watchin' the wheels go round & round....and thinking that Joni has been a touchstone through it all - even in the 80s when she did that record we won't talk about that Don/Larry likes so much. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:56:57 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Re: Radiohead, Kid A (NJC) I whole heartedly agree with Bob -- this is just an amazing album. I loved OK Computer, but this one I really feel is breaking new ground. Mesmerising, mystical, and all together sincere. There's nothing arty-farty about it. It gives me hope for this generation. This is one for musicologists to debate and dissect, but I'd rather just listen to it. NP: Go Gos - Greatest hits ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:07:18 -0500 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Doink? NJC Willy wrote"Downstairs in Danny's All-Star joint they got a juke box that goes doink doink." Good Joni alternative, Will, but I think the jukebox goes 'doyt-doyt' in a jazzy fashion, rather than a 'doink' which makes me think of 'boink' which brings in a noise of completely different texture and origin. ;`) - -Chris NP:Village Ghetto Land - Stevie Wonder ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:22:24 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Doink? NJC > Willy wrote"Downstairs in Danny's All-Star joint they got a juke box that > goes doink > doink." > > Good Joni alternative, Will, but I think the jukebox goes 'doyt-doyt' in > a jazzy fashion, rather than a 'doink' which makes me think of 'boink' > which brings in a noise of completely different texture and origin. ;`) > -Chris Having just recently acquired RLJ's first album, I can say that the lyric sheet does say 'doyt-doyt.' Mark in Seattle - who's mind is opening just a wee crack & gradually letting this music in - after many years of being clamped shut. Are you reading this Patrick? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Re: Craziness Man, I dislike writing from my yahoo addy - my last post didn't include the quote from Kakki that I had posted along with my reply....weird. (and posts aren't showing up in my yahoo mailbox in a timely or sequential manner either - what a pain.) So here's what I sent, because for some reason the whole thing didn't show up last time. ;-) Kakki wrote: From what I heard on NPR, many of the people who double-punched had already put their ballots in the ballot box. When they asked for a new ballot to re-do it, the person overseeing that polling place could not, by law, give them another ballot once the original ballot went in the box. The overseer is not allowed by law to open up the ballot box and take the "bad" ballots out. It's easy to say let everyone re-vote but truly you must consider that some people would change their votes now that they know how the election is turning out. It's would be giving an unfair advantage no matter how noble the intention and it would set bad precedent legally. Hi Kakki! I never said a word about a re-vote or about people casting more than one ballot. Maybe I didn't make myself clear in relaying the experiences of an "offical" counter in the state of Oregon. First off, this was a person who only saw the ballots after the fact, not while people were in the booths or putting them in the ballot box. She was telling us about when they did hand counts of these double punched ballots. It was her experience that they always found numbers of ballots where when a double punch was made, that the voter had taken the ballot out of the machine in the booth, trying to correct the mistake they made on their own, marked their preference by circling or underlining their intention or ex-ing out the punch made in error. These are the types of things she said that show up in a hand count of the intial vote. She also was telling about the machine errors found in a hand count that are being talked about on CNN and other channels. Like said, in Oregon, in the hand count process, when the counters can clearly see the desired intent of that voter's ballot, their vote is added accordingly to the tally. (Has anyone heard how the 19,000 thrown out ballots are being physically handled??) Please forgive any misunderstanding for not explaining further in my intial post(s). Penny __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #595 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?