From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #590 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 9 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 590 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Israel and Palestinians NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Craziness (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Craziness (NJC) [Dflahm@aol.com] RE: Craziness (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Age NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] VideoTree #2 [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Muggles NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] Today in Joni History - November 9 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Leaping Lesbians (oh my!) NJC ["Lori R. Fye" ] The List/Ages (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: (NJC) maybe I'll go to Amsterdam.maybe I'll go to Rome... ["Lori R. F] Depression - Losing Our Loved Ones (SJC) [leslie@torchsongs.com] RE: Leaping Musicians!! ["Peg Eves" ] RE: Leaping Musicians!! (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: NJC - Ages, anyone? ["Diane Evans" ] Re: Craziness (NJC) ["Kakki" ] RE: Leaping Musicians!! (NJC) ["Peg Eves" ] Re: Craziness (NJC) [michael w yarbrough ] Re: Re: NJC - Ages, anyone? [hessj@ix.netcom.com] Re: AGES (and stuff) ["Garret" ] american food -- need help!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: american food -- need help!!! njc [FMYFL@aol.com] joni on 2fm ["Garret" ] (NJC) maybe I'll go to Amsterdam.maybe I'll go to Rome... ["Susan" ] RE: american food -- need help!!! njc ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re: american food -- need help!!! njc [AsharaJM@aol.com] ATTENTION AOL Users!!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Craziness (NJC) [dsk ] Top ten ways to solve the presidential election(NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: american food -- need help!!! njc [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Craziness (NJC) ["Diane Evans" ] Re: american food -- need help!!! njc [MGVal@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 04:04:25 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Israel and Palestinians NJC "Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: >What's up over there? >Who can educate me? Who's following this? Jim, it's simple: You say falafel, I say falafel. You say salaam, I say shalom. Falafel, falafel, salaam, shalom ... Let's blow the whole thing up! - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 02:02:57 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Craziness (NJC) This election and resultant outfall is so crazy it really makes me wonder about the future of the U.S. as we know (knew) it. The lawsuits have already been filed in Florida over the "confusing" ballot asking for Palm Beach County to be able to vote again. Hello? I recall a ballot design like that one where I voted in CA a few years back - difference was word got around and people widely knew in advance to be careful reading and punching it. I completely understand how misfortunate it is that some people may have been confused by it, but we'd almost have to let the whole country vote all over again to make it a fair election. This is all starting to remind me of some desperate, high stakes win at all costs poker game rather than a presidential election. I see little dignity being exhibited. In fact, Gore and Bush have been the only ones appearing dignified at this point! The lawyers are already starting to talk lawsuits, overturning of the Electoral College, and so on everywhere I turn. I heard one lawyer today dismissively argue that most of the 29 states who went to Bush are nothing but "acreage" so we should overturn the Electoral College procedure which works to gives them rights in this election. I've heard people from BOTH parties say they want to leave the country (and by the way, New Zealand seems to be the most popular choice, Hell - oh be careful what you wish for! ;-) Maybe we won't have to go anywhere. Maybe we'll just all secede into a couple of new countries and they can bring in UN troops to oversee the transition. Or let's recount all the votes in every state and bring in neutral Swiss Guards to keep watch. Ahhhhhh, when is this going to end??? To make a bad day worse, reports are that Harrison Ford is leaving his wife for Nicholson's girlfriend, Lara Flynn Boyle - truly the Apolcalyse is near! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 06:28:40 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) I'm not following the recount drama all that closely, but it interests me for a quasi-personal reason. The DNC Chairman, Edward Rendell, and I went to school together--he is about four years younger, but his brother was a classmate and friend for awhile. Rendell was the Philadelphia DA before he was mayor and as I read about accusations of what my wife calls "figgly-miggly" in the FL vote, I can't resist the fantasy that he knows people who'd be very good at "investigating" such a situation. I know George V. Higgins has died, so, regrettably, we won't be getting a book out of all this called "The Friends of Eddie Rendell." LAHM npimh-scenes from "The Friends of Eddie Coyle" starring Robert Mitchum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 06:41:56 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Craziness (NJC) Here's what's crazy. Gore won the popular vote. But for a Florida county where over 3,000 predominately Jewish and predominantly Democratic voters inexplicably voted for a right-wing nutcase who has publicly questioned the reality of the Holocaust, Gore would have won the electoral college as well. By every reasonable measure of "the people's will," Gore won the election, but Bush might take office on a technicality. A technicality!! I was so heartened to see the (relatively) big voter turnout this year. If this "technical victory" is allowed to stand, some of these reluctant voters might never vote again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 07:12:41 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Age NJC OK, I'll sign the register. I'm 35. For me, life really did begin at 30, and I'm looking forward to the next decade or three. Azeem in cold & wet London NP: Catherine Porter - Tunnel vision ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 09:52:50 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: VideoTree #2 The Branch sign up is now closed. However, if you have 2 High Quality, Hi-Fi VCR's, would be willing to dub tapes for others, and have not signed up to be a Branch yet, please contact me directly. There is till time to sign up as a Leaf for VideoTree #2! Go to: http://www.jmdl.com/trading/leafsignup.cfm Hurry! Sign ups close November 18th. Believe me, you DON'T want to miss this! For those who care: I'm 45. ;-) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 06:55:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Muggles NJC Fred wrote: > Ironic, because ever since the 1920s a "muggle" is > American hipster/jazz slang for a marijuana > cigarette. So when Mingus and Joni sang, "I's a muggin," they were getting high? Lori, thinking that's way cool, in DC NP: RLJ's "The Low Spark of High-Heeled Boys" on WXPN (http://publicbroadcast.net/wxpn/ppr/) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 00:48:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 9 1999: The Allstar website reported today that "Joni Mitchell will contribute guest vocals on the upcoming album by drummer Brian Blade, Perceptual, which is due for release on Blue Note Records in April 2000." More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/991109as.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:09:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Leaping Lesbians (oh my!) NJC Kerry wrote: > I still have all my old albums and every once in a > while, I go down to the basement to listen to Meg > Christian or Cris Williamson. I'll never forget how > cool it was to discover their music as I was coming > out. The gay women's music scene has been ridiculed for years (How many lesbians does it take to change a lightbulb? Four: one to hold the ladder, one to change the bulb, and two to write a song about it!), but in the 70s and 80s the music recorded by Cris, Meg, Holly Near, Tret Fure, Lucie Blue Tremblay, and others too numerous to list provided an oasis of comfort and solidarity for emerging lesbians. I was thrilled to find out that there was an entire world of women like me, who were not afraid to sing and joke about their experiences as women-loving women. Even if you were stuck in some rural backwater without another lesbian friend nearby, you could imagine yourself as part of a community of women like you, who understood your life and what you felt, confusing as it often was. These courageous performers paved the way for today's lesbian singers to be able to come out publicly, even though the music of Melissa and kd rarely, if ever, is blatantly lesbian. I applaud them all. Interestingly, Olivia Records -- once the largest lesbian recording company -- seems to have morphed completely from a music company into a travel company, which, I guess, is in keeping with the upward mobility of many lesbians (though it leaves behind many who can't afford the luxury of a cruise). One of the best concerts I ever attended was Cris, Meg, Holly, and Tret performing in some little theatre in Philly in 1983. I showed up at the box office an hour before the show and somehow managed to snag 4th row seats for myself and friends, and the place was packed. To be able to revel and rejoice with four of the icons of lesbian music in a roomful of dykes -- what a treat! Enough blathering for now ... Lori in DC NPIMH: "I Enjoy Being A Girl" by Phranc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:10:50 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: The List/Ages (NJC) Eric Wilcox asks: >Why is it that the JMDL sticks to the antiquated listerserv type e-mail >list? The list works fine for me the way it is. If I could just figure out a way to filter a couple of people out of the digests I get (not you Eric!) it would be perfect! :) And the other Steve wrote: >WOW , how cool, and I'm old enough to be your GRANDFATHER, >clocking in at a geriatric 52 Well, Steve, there's someone on the list older than both of us (I'm 51) but *I* ain't outing them. :) - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:13:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) maybe I'll go to Amsterdam.maybe I'll go to Rome... Mark wrote of "Leaping Lesbians": > I remember the first time I heard this song I > laughed & laughed! Right from the first notes, that > stock 'scary music' whatever it is. Funny little > song! Once, in a fit of orneriness, I called the PTL station in Phoenix and played it for them over the phone. To her credit, the woman who answered listened for at least a minute. ; ) > I also remember the recital of a poem called 'Gays > Shouldn't Be Blatant'. It was pretty funny - and to > the point - as well Ahh ... how many times have you heard this? "I don't mind the gays, I just wish they wouldn't be so obvious about it." Lori in DC, who subscribes to the idea that if we ALL can't display tasteful affection in public without fear of ridicule or worse, then NO ONE should be able to do so __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:35:27 GMT From: leslie@torchsongs.com Subject: Depression - Losing Our Loved Ones (SJC) Helen wrote: "My father suffered from depression most of his life - he had extensive shock therapy" Helen, it is very brave of you to share such a personal experience with the list. My father, too, was a manic-depressive, and had shock therapy. After my mother died (I was 13 and my brother and sister were both living away from home) I lived alone with my father. I never knew what sort of mood he'd be in or if he'd lose his temper. The toughest part was that noone in the entire family would discuss my father's illness or even admit that a problem existed. I'd retreat into the basement and listen to Joni for comfort. Rose, my heart goes out to you. Your compassion and strength will pull you through and give solace to your daughter and grandchildren. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:21:03 -0500 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Leaping Musicians!! Kerry, Lori, et al, So true. Cris is an icon.I would like to add for the benefit of people who don't know that Cris Williamson also happens to be a very, VERY fine songwriter (who speaks not only of and for women and lesbians). Her voice and singing are absolutely splendid - one of the finest female voices today! Her piano playing and composition are exquisite ! Her talents rival many of the greatest in the music industry today. Tret Fure is also a vast talent! Singer, songwriter, guitar player. Peg > ----- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:44:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: RE: Leaping Musicians!! (NJC) Peg wrote: > ... Cris Williamson also happens to be a very, VERY > fine songwriter (who speaks not only of and for > women and lesbians). You're absolutely correct, Peg. Cris has written and recorded many wonderful songs about many subjects, including our fragile ecosystem. Probably quite a few Joni fans would appreciate Cris's voice, songwriting, and musicianship. Now talk about synchronicity ... I haven't listened to anything by Cris in years (save for the occasional song played by WXPN), but I thought I'd see if she has a website. Of course she does, and here's one of the things I found at http://www.criswilliamson.com/toc.htm - ----- Come to the LIVE WEBCAST!!! 11/11/00 8:00PM-11:00PM ET the Peterborough Folk Music Society presents Cris Williamson live from the Peterborough Players Theater, Peterborough, NH Go to http://www.radioboston.com, select Special Events Channel 3, and choose the Real Audio 5 AUDIO ONLY option to tune in. - ----- Lori in DC NPIMH: "Changer and the Changed" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:41:00 EST From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: NJC - Ages, anyone? Catherine, Re: >Another 47-yr old bat here That one hurt! Do you think we're quite old enough to be "crones?" Bats give me the twitches...:-o Diane _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:28:34 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) Deb wrote: > Gore won the popular vote. Actually not all the votes have been counted - that's just the projection. That's why the Electors don't actually go vote until sometime in December. > But for a Florida county where over 3,000 > predominately Jewish and predominantly Democratic voters inexplicably voted for a right-wing nutcase who has publicly questioned the reality of the Holocaust, Gore would have won >the electoral college as well. So what do you suggest they do? > By every reasonable measure of "the people's will," Gore won the election, but Bush might take office on a technicality. A technicality!! Hello?? A "technicality". The absentee military votes in Florida (and a few other states where it is close) have not even been counted yet. I'm convinced now that the U.S. is run by the media and what's really unfortunate is that so many Americans are letting it happen. Yuck. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:42:02 -0500 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Leaping Musicians!! (NJC) Thanks Lori. You know, I haven't seen her since the early 90's when I produced two shows for her. One with Tret and one with Teresa. Burlington and Keene. Let's not forget Teresa! Later, Peg> ---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:59:17 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) Kakki wrote: > I'm convinced now that the U.S. is run by the media and what's really > unfortunate is that so many Americans are letting it happen. I'm not sure I understand you. The calls and retractions I get, but that doesn't change actual questions about actual voting irregularities. You're right to point out that we won't know FL's real vote until 11/17, but it is that vote total and no media projection that will be binding. As for Gore's projected popular vote margin, it's almost 200K based on 99% of precincts nationwide actually being counted, not projected. It's possible that the remaining-to-be-counted votes will change that 200K deficit, but fairly unlikely. And if it does, the actual count then will determine the popular vote winner, not today's projection. What all of this points to is that the "public will" is a big, complex, messy thing to get a hold of, and majority-rules popular votes are a very imperfect way to measure it. Unfortunately, they're also the best way to measure it. When an election is this close, the actual winner is in reality pretty damn arbitrary. We can cut down on fraud and irregularity, and perhaps move to popular rather than electoral voting, to reduce the arbitrariness, but we cannot eliminate it. Dems benefited from it with Kennedy's election; Reps likely will benefit from it with Bush's. It's a messy but thankfully rarely manifest weakness of majoritarian democracy. As for letting the media run the U.S., I'm not sure exactly what action we could take to undercut media power in this instance other than to demand that election and counting practices conform with the law, which is exactly what everyone from Buchanan to Bush to Gore to patient but perplexed Americans seems to be doing. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:04:05 -0500 From: hessj@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Re: NJC - Ages, anyone? I'm an old fart of 52 myself. Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty is coy about her age, but I suspect she may be approaching six. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna, one of whom voted in ye olde District of Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:27:57 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: Re: AGES (and stuff) >zelda- > -and not to be considered inferior due to her age i hope!! no way. it's cool:-) dont worry about trying to find people with similar musical tastes....as long as you know whos best! i've managed to bore people to tears trying to tell them why i like Joni, this isn't always an easy thing to verbalise. on monday i got caught in a flood going to college, lol, but i didnt turn back. it took hours braving the elements to get to UCD; i arrived only to find that my Vegetation and Environment lecturer was being nice to us- he cancelled the practical due to the weather.....so, like any true Irish college student i just had to hit the (student) bar (at 10.30am- shocking behaviour!). well, i was with some people i have known for a about a year, and these particular people had somehow managed to miss me ever talking about Joni (even that phase after i read the JM companion and retold stories to beat the band, like, all hte time, as in always, unstoppable, a Joni analogy for every occasion and all that .......i loved the one Joni told about Mingus dying at age 56 in mexico and locals finding 56 beached whales on the mexican coasts that day). well the bar was freezing guys. the conversation turned, as it does, to music. i knew they had good taste from previous conversations but was pleasantly surprised to hear Patti Smith, Pj Harvey (has anyone heard her new one, it's supposed to be great. she sang the new single on the Late Late Show last week or the week before and i was very impressed. Polly is on the cover of hte new Hot Press magazine, a pretty cool interveiw. it also includes a short and funny interview with Sinead O Connor. apparently she considers herself the most shaggable pop star in the world), they liked also Tori Amos, Fiona Apple (virtually unheard of in Ireland so this is GOOD), Radiohead and so many of my other favourites. they thought they had heard the name Joni Mitchell once or twice before. although they weren't too sure of who she is (despite my wonderful rendition of BYT) they could see my respect for Joni. i was asked what exactly it is that draws me to Joni. i went on about lyrics and music and all sorts for 20 minutes (much to hte bemusement of the others....."just get a drink into him and he wont shut up") before Aine interrupted me "no, Garret, what EXACTLY draws YOU to Joni Mitchell?" i tried to expalin it's all the things i'd mentioned. but looking at those raised-in-expectation-eyebrows i came out with this: Well, you know, our Joni is not a humble woman. in fact, i'd go so far to say that she is a little self obsessed (all those self portraits, for example). yes, i believe that she can be selfish. selfish to the extent that she lets (only) her own artisitic judgements guide the creation of her music. she isn't really trying to please ten million people with her songs about mistreated indian girls, wifebeating, or "fallen women" in Ireland, no, she is only trying to please herself- Joni Mitchell is making music for Joni Mitchell. she is driven by her own artisitic designs to create new and original pieces- be them musical or be them paintings. she isn't trying to repeat her past successes, she's not a jukebox. what draws me to Joni is her ability to progress, her ability to grow, her ongoing ability to create new art. so we ordered another round and debated the merits of Radioheads latest offering (again) and now on to the point of this e-mail: i'm nineteen for a few more weeks! GARRET ps- i wonder what Joni did on her birthday? i wonder if she watches Ally McBeal.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:42:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: american food -- need help!!! njc on thursday 16, gourmet.com -- the local food channel -- will interview me to discuss american cuisine. they will surely ask me questions about american food by region. though i know of some american specialties, i would certainly appreciate your feedback. can you help me? are there any special dishes that you think are typical of your region? do you have any ''culinary'' memories, i.e.. meals or desserts that you're elders used to cook and you haven't had in a while? any suggestion or comment will be so much appreciated. a contrast between canadian, uk, irish, and american culinary customs will be enormously welcome. if you feel that this is a nice thread, reply to the list. otherwise, write me privately. thank you so much for your help!!!!! and reply soon: i have only a week to do my homework. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:02:58 +1100 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: joni videos - thanks Hi Listers, I was watching the JMDL videos, with old joni interviews and clips, yesterday and I just wanted to write to thank you all again for making these videos available to someone like me - who is quite isolated 'down under' ;-) No matter how many times I watch them - I am always in awe of Joni....she will always be my 'number one'...... thanks listers thanks joni Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:27:03 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc In a message dated 11/9/00 2:57:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << are there any special dishes that you think are typical of your region? >> Walter, Even though Florida has become a mixture of all the northern states and Canadians, I was raised on good ole southern cooking. My mom could (and still can) whip up the best fried chicken, or fried fish, or hush puppies. Everything while I was growing up was fried. (now just my brain is :~>). We would have mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans, blackeyed peas, apple sauce, and a delicious peach cobbler for dessert. Oh the good ole days. Now Ashara has gotten hold of my Mom, so she just cooks tofu (YUCK) :~) Hope that helps some! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:53:00 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: joni on 2fm ihad meant to mention this in my earlier post, but i went on a little.... Dave Fanning played a 2 hour interview with Joni on sunday night. it was broadcast between 8and10pm. i missed it. 2fm is one of hte national radio stations here, and Dave Fanning is one of our "coolest" djs. it hadn't been aired before. it was dated from Wild Things Run Fast! a friend of mine listened to the whole thing while stuck in her car trying to get to Dublin in the bad weather from Mullingar- that shouldn't be more than an hour but she heard the whole joni segment. they played BYT, and some song that started just like jungle bells:-D i wonder what that could be?!? she also said that they played some more "rocky" types of songs. Joni talked about everything from art to touring apparently. she sounded very intelligent and friendly, and occasionaly a little smug. wish i'd taped it guys, could have been great. are there any other irish listers who caught it? i know Phillip from Galway was on the list before i went to america, but i haven't heard anything from him lately. maybe he taped it. GARRET ps- any word on that South Bank Show ep? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:13:24 -0600 From: "Susan" Subject: (NJC) maybe I'll go to Amsterdam.maybe I'll go to Rome... > Lori: At the risk of starting another flame war -- oh hell, > I just feel like rocking a boat today! *some* of us > will agree that we are limited by *others* on the > amount of time we can spend discussing *certain* > issues. > I agree Lori! Every time a "liberal" or a "left-wing" gets into a discussion here (labels labels) ... here come the limits. Here comes the " thread gestapo" to tell us enough is enough. I have never asked anyone on this line to stop their discussion, only perhaps to ask them to temper their presentation, so as not to hurt anyone here. But there are a few, who I see coming from the "right" who immediately cry "foul" and demand the end of what I find as very stimulating exchange. Without being cruel or mean spirited, we can certainly chide each other good-naturedly. In fact the more we talk - the more we talk! Get it, no fighting, no war, less hate and maybe even ... a little peace, love and understanding! (and what's so funny about that?!) Also, I think there are those on both sides of the political spectrum who can get catty and mean, but of course I tend to see the "right" a bit more skewed than the others, that 's natural for any and all sides. There are so few who engage in this kind of exchange, tho I really should be tipping my hat (if I was wearing one) to all those who interact and exchange so sincerely and calmly and generously here. My lover and I used to discuss and argue every possible political point - - even though we were on the same side 90% of the time. Because then we would argue why we were on that side - I loved it! I really missed her this week more than I have lately! Come on Robin can't you be an angel and "help" out on the recount in Florida! Thank you all! And Lori I prefer P-town! Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:00:19 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: american food -- need help!!! njc jimmy, thanks, dearest! this is so interesting! two questions: 1- what are hush puppies and peach cobbler? 2- do you think that southerners use so much frying because of african-american influence? love ya for always coming through!!!!!!! wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de FMYFL@aol.com Enviado el: Jueves, 09 de Noviembre de 2000 05:27 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc In a message dated 11/9/00 2:57:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << are there any special dishes that you think are typical of your region? >> Walter, Even though Florida has become a mixture of all the northern states and Canadians, I was raised on good ole southern cooking. My mom could (and still can) whip up the best fried chicken, or fried fish, or hush puppies. Everything while I was growing up was fried. (now just my brain is :~>). We would have mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans, blackeyed peas, apple sauce, and a delicious peach cobbler for dessert. Oh the good ole days. Now Ashara has gotten hold of my Mom, so she just cooks tofu (YUCK) :~) Hope that helps some! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: RE: Leaping Musicians!! (NJC) Peg! > You know, I haven't seen her since the early 90's > when I produced two shows for her. One with Tret and > one with Teresa. Burlington and Keene. Let's not > forget Teresa! You are my hero! And you're right, we should not forget Teresa Trull! Now that I think about it some more, the concert I saw in Philly may have included Teresa, too. Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 04:24:35 -0500 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: RE: american food -- need help!!! njc hush puppies are great little fried balls of cornmeal most famous as a side dish at long john silver's......try 'em!! Carol ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:39:51 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc In a message dated 11/9/00 11:57:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << are there any special dishes that you think are typical of your region? >> I guarantee you that I am probably the only household in California, (or indeed west of the Mississippi), who hoards Taylor's Ham. And I bet that not that many households in New Jersey keep it either. MG - off to fry up a batch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:40:42 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc Hi, Wally: Since it's November and we're about to celebrate Thanksgiving here in the states, you might talk about that. Turkey, the staple of Thanksgiving celebrations throughout the US, is an indigenous bird which Benjamin Franklin once sought to make our national symbol. (As you probably know, the bald eagle won.) I'm sure you can find Web sites that will tell you all about the Pilgrims, Native Americans and the whole Thanksgiving tradition. Here in New England, seafood is very popular and, in my opinion, the varieties of fish and shellfish that are caught in the Atlantic waters off New England and Canada are far superior, overall, to seafood from other parts of the world. With few memorable exceptions, such as the to-die-for salmon in Ireland and incredible dishes from the American South, whenever I travel and try local seafood, I am usually disappointed by its blandness. New England clam bakes, which include clams, mussels, and lobsters (only the kind that is native to the New England region) are still very popular in the summer. One tradition that seems to have died out is cold salmon and peas for the Fourth of July. Also, my English/Irish grandmother, who died in 1971, used to make something called finan haddie, which is smoked, salted cod, I believe, in a milk or cream sauce, usually served over potatoes. (Man, do I miss that!) Although each region of the US has special dishes and traditions that were influenced by various groups (Native, French, English, Spanish, African, Italian, Asian, and on and on), many of us have memories of bland, meat-and-potato childhoods. Julia Child is the person most often credited with improving the American palate, and from my perspective, cuisine in the US improved greatly once she burst on the scene in the late 60's/early 70s with her TV show "The French Chef," and American tastes in general have become much more discerning and sophisticated since then. I'm sure the rest of the world assumes Americans eat most of their meals at McDonald's -- or in Jimmy's case, Wendy's -- but that's really not the case. Hope this helps, even if I never even got to succotash. Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:48:54 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc Wallykins asks: << 1- what are hush puppies and peach cobbler? Hush puppies are when you take corn meal, buttermilk, eggs, onions, and some garlic powder all mixed together, then you drop a about a table spoon of the mix into a deep hot frier of oil for a few minutes til golden brown. They're kind of like a little fried ball of corn bread. In case anyone was wondering where the term "hush puppy" came from, I was always told that it was from the Civil War. The soldiers would set up camp somewhere in the woods, and they would cook these little patties of corn meal. To keep their dogs from barking, they would silence them by throwing them one of these fried balls of corn meal and say "hush puppy". I am not making this up!!!! A cobbler is a deep-dish fruit dessert with a thick top crust. Mom used to make it with peaches, but other kinds of fruits can be used. There are lots of different recipes for cobblers, and I don't remember how Mom made hers. I do remember making a peach cobbler in Boy Scouts, using a dutch oven (and no Marcel, a dutch oven isn't when you fart in bed and pull the covers over your wife's head :~) 2- do you think that southerners use so much frying because of african-american influence? >> That's a good question, and you might be right about the african - american influence. Glad I could help. Jimmy, all ready for supper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:08:59 -0500 From: hessj@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc Wally, All we eat here in Washington, DC, is crow. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty Wally Kairuz wrote: > on thursday 16, gourmet.com -- the local food channel -- will interview me to discuss american cuisine. they will surely ask me questions about american food by region. though i know of some american specialties, i would certainly appreciate your feedback. can you help me? are there any special dishes that you think are typical of your region? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:25:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: american food -- need help!!! njc first of all, thanks to everybody for your help!!!! keep the posts coming, please. you can't imagine how very interesting and useful your responses are! and now ...what IS succotash?!?!?!? i've seen that word in a million novels and it sounds so delicious! more questions, how many of you add onion soup mix to your ground beef when you're making hamburgers? is this a california thing? what is a tuna surprise? do you know why a meatball hero is called a hero? wallyK, so hungry now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Murphy wrote Hope this helps, even if I never even got to succotash. Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:27:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Attention: all AOL users NJC Zelda wrote: > I still plan on downloading AOL 6.0 , but only in a > month or two; it takes a while for them to perfect > it. why can't they just put it out ready and tested?? As a recent AOL Beta tester, I can tell you AOL does test a new version before releasing it for general use, although IMO they don't do a very good job of it. I'm more or less forced to use AOL at work and I can see that 6.0 still has a lot of bugs. As a reminder, unless you've uninstalled 5.0 from your system, it's still resident. AOL is about the only software that doesn't write over itself completely when you upgrade. Perhaps if you revert to using 5.0, you'll have better success with the JMDL? Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 17:42:43 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc In a message dated 11/9/00 2:57:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << are there any special dishes that you think are typical of your region? >> One word: Tofu. ;-) Actually, I think Murf the Smurf has a GREAT idea about the turkey- Thanksgiving thing! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 17:52:14 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: ATTENTION AOL Users!!!! If you haven't upgraded to 6.0 yet, I would advise against it. If you have, and you've saved the 5.0 version, keep the 5.0 version, and dump 6.0. I have spent the past several days trying to figure what has wrecked havock on my computer. I have been on the phone to many computer experts over the past 2 days, and the bottom line is this: Besides the obvious problem JMDlers have of not being able to send e-mail to the list, (that was the Joni content) there are many, many more problems with 6.0. Supposedly, there is a law suit pending already over one of them. I took 6.0 off my computer, and everything is blissfully back to normal. Just a thought... Hugs, Ashara {happily in 5.0 land again.} www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:11:25 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) Kakki wrote: > This election and resultant outfall is so crazy it really makes me wonder > about the future of the U.S. as we know (knew) it. There will be changes, but that can be a very good thing. One change will be considering, later when this has all calmed down, whether the electoral college is still needed and effective and, if it's not, how to change election procedure. The electoral college was put into place when only white men who owned land could vote, so it's been considered outdated for a long time now. It's not been a big deal in the last hundred years or so because the popular vote winner was always the electoral college vote winner also. Looking seriously at this set-up as a result of all this drama is a good thing. It means our democracy is very much alive and growing and solid enough to tolerate change. Right-wingers are claiming that there's a constitutional crisis because of this, and blaming Gore for everything. That's crazy talk. There's no crisis, just a delay, which Americans are not used to (no instant gratification this time). Every American wants to feel that an election, every election, is based on each vote being counted impartially, and if the resolution to this situation is rushed, Americans will no longer have that assumption. It's only because of that assumption that we tolerate the President no matter how much we might disagree with his political viewpoints. It would behoove Bush and the Republicans to let the time to look at this very carefully pass without getting whiny about it. If, when it's all decided, Americans don't believe Bush won fairly then he will be scorned forever (which goes way beyond merely disagreeing with his political beliefs). The fact that Bush's brother is governor of Florida and assured him that he would "deliver" Florida makes it even more important that it be sorted out clearly and honestly. Otherwise people will always wonder how Jeb Bush was so very sure of being able to deliver. Add to that the fact that Gore won the popular vote, and it becomes even more important that it be sorted out honestly. And that takes time, within reason of course. I don't know at what point it becomes too long a time to wait, but it's certainly not there yet. > The lawsuits have > already been filed in Florida over the "confusing" ballot asking for Palm > Beach County to be able to vote again. Hello? I recall a ballot design > like that one where I voted in CA a few years back - difference was word got > around and people widely knew in advance to be careful reading and punching > it. I completely understand how misfortunate it is that some people may > have been confused by it, but we'd almost have to let the whole country vote > all over again to make it a fair election. The difference is that usually there's a huge difference in the number of votes, so if there were some errors made it didn't matter. At the moment there's a difference of only 341 votes in Florida, and because the results there decide the entire election, it can't compare to anything that has ever happened before. And the other extremely close results in some states, such as Wisconsin, may need to be looked at again now. > This is all starting to remind > me of some desperate, high stakes win at all costs poker game rather than a > presidential election. I see little dignity being exhibited. In fact, Gore > and Bush > have been the only ones appearing dignified at this point! Whoever becomes President, neither has a mandate and that will never be forgotten. That will be especially important if Bush is elected because before this there would have been no brakes on his actions since it's also a Republican Congress now. Gore would have been forced to moderate his views because of that Congress even if he'd been elected without all of this confusion, but he too, in addition to that, will have to deal with the fact that 1/2 of the country wanted the other guy. It's going to be tough to get much done no matter who's elected as a result of this split in the country. > The lawyers are already starting to talk lawsuits, overturning of the > Electoral > College, and so on everywhere I turn. I heard one lawyer today dismissively > argue that most of the 29 states who went to Bush are nothing but "acreage" > so we should overturn the Electoral College procedure which works to gives > them rights in this election. Looking seriously at whether the electoral college is effective now is long overdue. > I've heard people from BOTH parties say they > want to leave the country (and by the way, New Zealand seems to be the most > popular choice, Hell - oh be careful what you wish for! ;-) I fantasize about leaving only if Bush gets elected, but what's happening now makes me less afraid of what he would be able to do to the country and the economy. (Less afraid, not unafraid) > To make a bad day worse, reports are that Harrison Ford is leaving his wife > for Nicholson's girlfriend, Lara Flynn Boyle - truly the Apolcalyse is near! Now that on the surface is very sad, but, again, it may be a very positive, brave choice they're making. Change can be good, scary usually, but sometimes ultimately a very good thing. Debra Shea P.S. Sorry for my speechifying. This situation is fascinating to me and I think energizing to the political system in this country. That's a good thing no matter how this turns out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:20:43 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Top ten ways to solve the presidential election(NJC) 10. An old fashioned duel. 9. Bush and Gore play "Who wants to be President" with Regis. 8. Rock, paper, scissors...best of three. 7. Democrats and Republicans play each other in Softball game. 6. Keep polls open for a week and let people vote as many times as they want. 5. Go see fortune teller lady. 4. Let Texas secede and take Bush with them. 3. Hold long distance marathon with finish line at White house. 2. Have spelling bee. 1. Bush and Gore play shuffleboard tournament in West Palm Beach. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:26:23 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) Kakki wrote: > I'm convinced now that the U.S. is run by the media and what's really > unfortunate is that so many Americans are letting it happen. I don't understand this. It sounds like a right-wing talk radio statement. As soon as things are not easily going the Republicans' way, the right-wingers start blaming the mainstream media. From you, Kakki, I'll just take your statement as a sign of your frustration and discomfort at what's happening. It is hard to wait when we're used to things being much neater, at least on the surface. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:13:45 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: RE: american food -- need help!!! njc Wally writes: << 2- do you think that southerners use so much frying because of african-american influence?>> Yes and no, Wally. My understanding is that the practice of frying foods originated in Europe. While Africans usually cooked meats (chicken, fish and goat, primarily) in stews or over flames, many slaves in America adopted the European practice of frying meat, which best prevented it from spoiling on road trips. Fried chicken was developed in the South during the nineteenth century and quickly became popular throughout the United States. But let's not forget about American barbecue!: In the eastern colonies the mingling of Native, Anglo, and African cultures produced a hybrid cuisine that included, among other things, barbecue. Many of the Africans who came to colonial South Carolina arrived from the West Indies, where, as linguistic evidence suggests, barbecue originated (barbacoa). Thus, enslaved Africans may have learned some culinary techniques, including barbecue, from West Indians. When cooking over a fire, American slaves began to baste their meats with sauce instead of serving it on the side, as had been the practice in Africa. Because of regional differences in livestock, "barbecue" came to mean pork in the eastern United States and beef in the western United States. The West African tradition of cooking all edible parts of plants and animals helped the slaves to survive in the United States. Although Europeans occasionally ate the leaves of plants, slaves often prepared the leaves of plants, especially collards, by simmering them in oil, peppers, and spices. They also creatively processed and cooked corn, the food most often made available to them by their owners. From corn, slaves made corn bread, grits (bleached and hulled corn kernels), hoecakes (cornmeal cooked on the blade of a hoe over a flame), and hush puppies (deep-fried cornmeal with onions and spices. Hope this helps. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 19:19:59 EST From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: Craziness (NJC) Kakki, Something in me responded when you wrote: >I completely understand how misfortunate it is that some people may >have been confused by it, but we'd almost have to let the whole country >vote all over again to make it a fair election. It really is a Pandora's box. Also, >The lawyers are already starting to talk lawsuits, overturning of the > >Electoral College, and so on everywhere I turn. I heard one lawyer > >today dismissively argue that most of the 29 states who went to Bush >are >nothing but "acreage" so we should overturn the Electoral College > >procedure which works to gives them rights in this election. I don't know. Maybe we have way to many lawyers passing the bar each year? I heard the funniest editorial on NPR this morning, to wit: make *both* of them president and let's go from there! >To make a bad day worse, reports are that Harrison Ford is leaving his > >wife for Nicholson's girlfriend, Lara Flynn Boyle - truly the Apolcalyse >is near! Truly. Is she a brazen hussie or what?;~) Diane > >Kakki > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:24:10 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: american food -- need help!!! njc In a message dated 11/9/00 2:40:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << nd now ...what IS succotash?!?!?!? i've seen that word in a million novels and it sounds so delicious! >> Dear god in heaven, it's corn ruined by the additional of mealy, horrid lima beans. MG - now if they stuck a little Taylor's Ham in it..... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #590 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?