From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #583 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk VideoTree sign-up: http://www.jmdl.com/trading Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 6 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 583 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. Sign up for VideoTree #2 now: http://www.jmdl.com/trading ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Kenny Grant [Penny ] Diltz Exhibit [Penny ] Re: Weepy Cheese (NJC) ["Diane Evans" ] Fave pianists/guitarists/bassists (VLJC) [Howard ] bushy boy ["Dave and Beth Fairall" ] five songs [db.ireland@usa.net] Re: songs that evoke emotion, Beach Boys [Nancy ] Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc ["Diane Evans" ] Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics (long) ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) ["Garret" ] Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Both Sides, Now [JRMCo1@aol.com] Electoral College (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] TNT "All-Star Tribute To Joni Mitchell" free on VHS and audio cassette ~NTSC only~ ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc [CaliMermeyd@aol.com] 5 songs boo-boo njc [evian ] Re: FAVORITE Pianists- Carole King...NJC, it never was "Greatest Pianists" ["Hell" ] Re: Tear Jerkers (NJC) [JRMCo1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:14:52 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc > 6.) Carly Simon -- Like a River (Can't even sing along to it because the > lyrics always catch in my throat) 'Like a River' really got to me when I first heard it. My Stevie tune is 'Sara.' That one used to do it to me every time. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:17:20 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Songs that evoke emotions > Prisoner in Disguise - Linda Ronstadt One of my all time favorites! Linda really wrings your heart on that one! Good choice, Kakki! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:51:25 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Kenny Grant I was shocked to hear about Kenny. I was lucky enough to meet Kenny at the 99 Jonifest, but we didn't find the time to chat it up with each other nearly as much as I would have liked. (Jonifests - So many people - so little time.) The car ride we shared to Atty May's, happily wedged between he and John vanTiel, in the back seat of Kakki's rental car, was such a kick - one of that weekends most memorable moments. He seemed so genuine, funny and warm. Kenny was really one of the many gems on this list. He's gone way to soon. Penny NP Joni - A Chair In The Sky __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 01:15:00 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Diltz Exhibit Hi All! Thanks to JMDLers info, I went to Henry Diltz's slide show and exhibit last Thursday in Portland. Henry's just as everyone has described him - down to earth, friendly, funny and a wonderful photographer. His photos are just so natural - they "feel" so comfortable and warm. The subjects' personalities really seem to come through unguarded - he seems to capture their true essense. His photos seem to give off warm fuzzies! ;-) He told terrific little stories throughout the slideshow - to many for me to remember all the details, but one of things he passed on that fits into a recent thread is that he just did the sessions a couple of weeks ago with Graham Nash for Graham's new album. Henry said Graham is using only musicians he's never worked with before, I think he mentioned from Nashville, in hopes of coming up with something more fresh from what he or his listeners have become accustomed. Interesting. Going through the exhibit again after the slide show, I wanted to ask Henry a question, because, frankly, I kinda wanted to meet him. ;-) And besides, it wasn't at all crowded - I bet there weren't ten people milling around there when Lawyer Dave and I spoke with him. I couldn't think of a Joni question I didn't already know the answer to, so I asked about the Sweet Baby James cover instead. The SBJ cover was hanging right above another shot of James sitting on the running board of an old pickup, out in a wooded area, wearing the same clothes as the SBJ cover, but the truck license plate was from California. So he told the story of how James came out to meet with his then manager Peter Asher, and so they went out to the boonies later that day and shot what turned out to be the SBJ cover. BTW, Henry prefers the black and white SBJ shot (on display) over the color shot they used because he feels the color one is just so dull and grainy. But anyway, that one surprised me - I always sensed SBJ was taken on the East Coast, not California. Henry says he does one reel during his slide show presentation, but he has 5 or 6 reels of these. Whether or not he only shows the same reel each time, I don't know - I should have asked. But good news! This West Coast tour is just the first stage of his exhibit. He said sometime after the first of the year it will be going to the other cities planned. No dates yet, but here's the cities: Baltimore Boston Chicago Cleveland Dallas Denver Detroit Houston Las Vegas Miami Minneapolis-St. Paul Orlando Philadelphia Phoenix Washington D.C. Hope more will be able to catch it in a city near you! Oh, and one more thing. I hadn't seen or heard any local advertisement about Henry's exhibit beforehand, but while we were there a news crew came in and interviewed Henry. In talking with him only a few minutes later, he said that was the fourth news crew that interviewed him that night. So watching the news at 11:30, Henry's was the last piece for the night. They had Joni playing on the sound for the piece while showing about a dozen of his shots and ended it with the TV screen completely filled with that famous beautiful black and white close up of Joni. Nice way to end an evening! ;-) Penny NP: Goodbye Pork Pie Hat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 08:52:18 EST From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: Weepy Cheese (NJC) Chris, That's a pretty good selection. >Ok, then, hows about 5 'crap tunes' that make you weepy (I'll settle for >'invoke emotion'), as I really enjoyed the 'crap tunes' thread a few >weeks back. > >Here it is: >Mandy-Barry Manilow >Shannon-Henry Gross >You And Me Against The World-Helen Reddy >Brandy-Looking Glass (Honestly, I don't know why...) >I Honestly Love You-Olivia Newton John But I think you forgot one: I Started a Joke - Beegees Diane NP: Centerpiece - Joni _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 14:55:10 +0000 From: Howard Subject: Fave pianists/guitarists/bassists (VLJC) Glad to see Thelonious Monk's name crop up in the fave pianists list. His playing and creativity just knock me out. Funky, cheeky, tender, swingin' - he could do it all. One other name I *didn't* see but have to mention - Claude Debussy. If I was pushed for my single favourite piano player/composer, it would probably be him. Unbeatable. Other honourable mentions: Keith Jarret, Joni, Fats Waller. Guitarists: In the beginning was the word, and the word was Hendrix! ... OK, there were plenty of others before him (Django, C. Christian), but as far as rock/pop/blues guitar goes, Hendrix comes first in my list - - no-one else comes close. Others: Zappa, Larry Carlton, Andy Summers, Neil Young, Brian May Bassists: Paul McCartney, Jaco, Sting, Chuck Rainey ... Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 11:58:55 -0500 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: Intricacy of Joni's lyrics~ From Rose I am posting this for Rose: In a message dated 11/4/00 2:29:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, marian@jmdl.com writes: !!! I think they are very beautiful lyrically and melodically (she is among my favorite musicians), but I find her songs very cerebral. It's like the emotions are transformed into beautiful multicolored jewels and the metaphorical beauty is moving, but I don't cry in response to it, even though many of the songs are very melancholy. When I think of Joni's artistry I think of Beauty and the beauty she creates endears her to us............. The Book of Changes on Grace/ Beauty She is an artist. She has the ability to discover and delineate forms and patterns that have a universal meaning. Her work communicates with others through the commonly understood universality of its forms-i.e., it's beauty. As an artist whatever she expresses, communicated with varying degrees of success, is only a medium for the beauty of expression, which has little to do with its personal meaning. There is something universal in what she expresses that communicates to others perfectly---clearly, directly, untransformed and untransformable. The artist is proverbially misunderstood. Her work is not the content of her work or life, but its form. The beauty of Isadora Duncan, for example is what her life was and not its intent: her story communicates deeply---a graceful fluttering between joy and tragedy. A tintype of her in a dance pose, however, arouses twitters at least as often as awe and the dance theories and education ! theories that were the overwhelming effort of her life are unfamiliar to most people. She is to others something else other than what she intends. It may be that this activity of hers that seems to her ordinary, natural, easy, thoughtless seems to us to be the prototype of the human condition and a reflection of universal truth: a work of art. True artistic genius. Happiness. rosemjoy@aol.com "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:07:10 -0500 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: 5 songs that evoke emotions (NJC) FROM ROSE Another post for Rose: These are the 5 that always get me crying a river........ 1. The Circle Game.. I played this for an old lover once and when he listened to it he started to sob, now whenever I hear it I cry. 2. Amelia 3. Hejira 4. Once upon a December (Anastasia) 5. Wind Beneath My Wings (sung by The Divine Bette Midler of course) rosemjoy@aol.com "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:27:20 +0000 From: Nancy Subject: Joni's Songs on Soundtracks I have a soundtrack CD from "Practical Magic" which has "A Case of You" on it, and also some Stevie Nicks (Fleetwood Mac) songs that I like. Does anyone know of any other movies that include Joni's songs in their soundtracks? Thanks, Nancy/IA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:48:00 -0600 From: "Dave and Beth Fairall" Subject: bushy boy j I want to give everyone who doesn't want to discuss politics a warning.I am truly worried about this election.If Bush wins,it will be a nightmare for this country.He will cut funding for all programs that help people.He will ruin the enviorment.It will be a disaster,a true nightmare for everyone.I am disgusted about this.How could we come to this?Bush is such an ignorant,foolish,idiot.How could he actually become president? - ------------------------------ Right On, it's really really scary. But then again as Mencken said, no one every lost a bet underestimating the intelligence of the American people. Look how popular country music is. This guy is totally unqualified, and we could be in for a return to the trickle down, "voodoo economics" that his Father warned us of. Not good for any humanitarian or environmental causes, look at Houston. He doesn't give a shit. In Italy he referred to as George the Murderer for his embrace of the death penalty. Not since Ronald Reagan's senile rein has the image of the US been so compromised with the prospect of a GW Bush victory. df ------------------------------ Date: 5 Nov 00 10:56:44 MST From: db.ireland@usa.net Subject: five songs Hey there... I'm trying to catch up with all of you so here is my pick: 1. River (of course) 2. Case of you (I am such a lonely painter too) 3. REal good for free (this touches my heart) 4. Just like a WOman (RIchie Havens version...makes me cry) 5. Love Ridden (Fiona Apple...new but really gets you) And I just have to mention to "Mark or Travis": Joni's songs do just that to me...."They heal, they soothe and they inspire". RIght on to that! Joni has touched my soul forever.... Peace everyone! DB ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:16:42 +0000 From: Nancy Subject: Re: songs that evoke emotion, Beach Boys I'm sort of like this too; wonder if it's a "mom" thing? I can get weepy when I hear "Sunrise, Sunset". Went to a wedding once (when my son was about 2 years. old), and they showed slides of the bride and groom as they were growing up, and played the Carpenters' "Bless the Beasts and the Children". I couldn't help crying; I felt really dumb, but the thought of my son growing up and getting married just set it off! a couple of songs that I can never > play all the way through without choking up. #1 on that list is Little > Green, especially since the Kilauren revelation but even before that I > had a hard time getting through it. Also in that same vein is Morning > Morgantown because I always think of it as an imaginary day out with the > child she gave up. > > Also, since my daughter went to college, I COMPLETELY LOSE IT every time I > play Sisotowbell Lane. > WAAAAAHHH!!! That's a killer. > Maybe I'm just a MUSH. Me, too, Sue! This is one of my favorite Beach Boys songs!! Very mellow. > Subject: Favorite Arrangers / Producers (from Jim) > 5th: Brian Wilson. Amazing and subtle stuff on the Beach Boys albums. If > you've heard the hits and wonder what else there is, try a track called "In > My Room". –––Nancy/IA PS: I am *really* enjoying this list; so glad I found all of you!! Anyone know if list members represent a particular age group? I'm just curious. :-) Can someone tell me who "RLJ" is (I may have missed it in the earlier discussion). Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 13:42:14 EST From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc I like this thread, too. Here are my personal picks, although others have mentioned a few that pull the tears as well: 1. Circle Game - Joni 2. Old Friends - Simon & Garfunkel 3. Bethlehem - Paula Cole 4. Don't Give Up - Peter Gabriel w/Kate Bush 5. Hejira - Joni How about a new thread? What are 5 songs that evoke jubilance in you? Diane NP: Rugged Road - Shawn Colvin _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:55:49 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc > 5 Songs that invoke emotions for me (non joni songs, of course): > > 1.) U2 -- The Unforgettable Fire (my totally all-time favorite song > ever) This is my favorite U2 album of all time, and the last one I really liked as a whole fluid album despite some great songs on Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby. I saw them on that tour in Tampa, Florida at the Sundome. It was an incredible performance, much more enjoyable than the Zoo tour I saw several years later. I believe it was also the last concert they held there that was general admission, as I remember in the review the next day, they said 218 chairs had been crushed. Victor NP: U2 Elevation ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:58:48 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: songs that evoke emotion, Beach Boys NJC and > played the Carpenters' "Bless the Beasts and the Children". I couldn't > help crying; I felt really dumb, but the thought of my son growing up > and getting married just set it off! I still remember seeing the movie 'Bless the Beasts and the Children' when I was in High School. It played in a mall movie theatre and I remember barely getting out to the car in the parking lot before bursting into sobbing tears. This lump had been building up in my throat in the theatre and as a teenage male I couldn't be seen crying in public so I had to struggle to contain it til I was safely in my parents' car. I already knew what it was like to be an outsider by that time but I don't think the full meaning of it had hit home until I saw that movie. > Can someone tell me who "RLJ" is (I may have missed it in the earlier discussion). > Thanks! I believe that would be Rickie Lee Jones. Some of you on the list may be interested to know that I finally broke down after 20 years and bought my first two RLJ cds. Up until now I have never owned any of her music. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 11:01:14 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc > 2. Old Friends - Simon & Garfunkel Oh God, another one! Denny used to say that he & I would be like the two men in this song, 'sharing a park bench quietly' when we got to be old. Now that will never be..... Mark in Seattle (promising to get out of this morbid bent I've been on lately) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 14:01:31 -0500 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: bushy boy(NJC) > j I want to give everyone who doesn't want to discuss politics a warning.I > am truly worried about this election.If Bush wins,it will be a nightmare for > this country.He will cut funding for all programs that help people.He will > ruin the enviorment.It will be a disaster,a true nightmare for everyone.I am > disgusted about this.How could we come to this?Bush is such an > ignorant,foolish,idiot.How could he actually become president? An Israeli doctor said, "Medicine in my country is so advanced we can take a kidney out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in six weeks," A German doctor said, "That's nothing! In Germany, we could take a lung out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in 4 weeks." A Russian doctor said, "In my country, medicine is so advanced that we could take half a heart from one person, put it in another, and have them both looking for work in two weeks." The American doctor, not to be outdone, said, "Hah! We are about to take an idiot out of Texas, put him in the White House and half the country will be looking for work the next day!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 01:24:40 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: The intellectuality of Joni's lyrics (long) What a great piece of writing, Debra! From the little literary touches, > that wrinkle between the eyebrows to the dramatic point near the end, > Joni in her music just shows up I loved it all. Thanks for this gift. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 16:27:30 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Too Sad To Sing All The Way Through, NJC Hello In There, by John Prine. Especially when sung by Bette. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:45:28 -0800 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Top 5 songs played on a Tuesday when the rain is out of the east and a election is just two days away and a candidate plans on driving in Martha's Vineyard under the influence (NCJ) America - Paul Simon America - Yes America - Niel Diamond America - Jaco Pastorius America - Menudo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:45:49 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc Diane Evans wrote: > How about a new thread? > > What are 5 songs that evoke jubilance in you? Good idea! Joni's Solid Love comes to mind first. I love that kicky song. Richard Thompson's Train Don't Stop makes me laugh out loud. It's so goofy. Folk music from the Andes (played by groups such as Rumillajta or in the subway sometimes) with wind instruments I don't know the name of and a very bouncy beat always lifts my spirits, and I don't know what they're singing so the analyzing brain doesn't get involved. Madonna's Ray of Light makes me happy, all of it. Bob Dylan's Si Tu Dois Partir, the version on Unhalfbricking by Fairport Convention. I picture springy corkscrews suddenly going haywire whenever I hear this. Hahahahaha Debra Shea NP: CNN ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 22:44:03 -0000 From: "Garret" Subject: Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) Often my emotional experience with a song is derived from personal connection; often from the knowledge that the song is fused with the emotion of it's writer. Other times, it is what the performer brings to it that makes the difference. 1. (Thank You For The ) Days- Luke Kelly. this one puts my heart in my throat- 'twas played at the funeral of a close relative earlier this year. even thinking of it can cos me to go silent for a while. 2. 74-75- The Connells. i'm not really sure why it gets to me. it just sounds so lonely, and brings to mind all those friends that i've lost wihtout the chance to say goodbye. thankfully i have found some of these people again recently, but not Ami. she's a childhood friend now somewhere in China:-( 3. Thirty-Three- Smashing Pumpkins. again, who knows why? i think that Billy Corgan may have finally been growing up (or realized that he wasnt a kid anymore) , and this song represents some reservations on his part. it also shows him telling all how far he's come- who kows why, but those "graceful swans of never" get me every time. 4. Redondo Beach- Patti Smith. i first heard this song after having what felt like an unfixable arguement with a dear friend. i thought all the joy we generated was gone. unlike Patti, though, i was the one that stormed off as it were and this song brought it all back home to me 5. Amen- Jewel, for the mixed feelings of loss and hoplessness in this song, must also admit to having a similar feeling wiht her song Don't. 6. Never is a Promise- Fiona Apple. for obvious reasons i think. this song easily makes us feel sooooo sorry for ourselves! GARRET np- Je T'aime- Serge Gainsbourg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 19:46:34 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) As others have pointed out, most of Joni's songs make me think as opposed to cry or laugh. They do, however, touch me very deeply, their cerebral nature notwithstanding. But for sheer exuberance, nothing beats these songs for me: 1. Badlands by Bruce Springsteen. It's probably one of the most frequently played songs on my jogging set list. The opening riffs always gets me going even if my energy hasn't even gotten there yet. 2. Marrakech Express by CSNY. Perky and fun. 3. Heaven on Their Minds from Jesus Christ Superstar. Again, the opening riffs get me moving although the intent of the song isn't anything celebratory. 4. Gone At Last by Paul Simon. Phoebe Snow's vocals lift it up and out. 5. Santa Claus is Coming to Town as done live by Bruce Springsteen. What can I say? Simple gal, simple tastes. MG np: peace and quiet: the kids are gone for the afternoon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:08:56 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Both Sides, Now I count this song among my favorites by Joni, or anyone for that matter. Few other songs give me this feeling of contemplative reflection on life and love. And I dig how the song's story is told from an ethereal and unordinary perspective. So, I was intrigued to hear Joni talk about the inspiration for the song on the Philadelphia Second Fret recordings from March 1967 (thanks, simon...hi Nikki). Joni attributes the impetus for "Both Sides, Now" to her reading of _Henderson the Rain King_ (1959) by Nobel laureate Saul Bellow. I had been meaning to read the tome for some time, now and finally got around to it this sunny Sunday. I thought I'd post the salient passage to the List, as I don't recall it being discussed here before. Bellow's book, a comedy and a fiction, is the story of a New York millionaire who goes to Africa to "find himself" and the meaning of life: "Africa reached my feelings right away even in the air, from which it looked like the ancient bed of mankind. And at a height of three miles, sitting above the clouds, I felt like an airborne seed... ...And I dreamed down at the clouds, and thought that when I was a kid I had dreamed up at them, and having dreamed at the clouds from both sides as no other generation of men has done, one should be able to accept death very easily. However, we made safe landings every time." - -Julius np: 2nd Fret "Urge for Going, Both Sides Now, Circle Game, Morning Morgantown..." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:02:25 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Electoral College (NJC) After nearly 30 years of voting in Presidential elections, I still have a tough time understanding how the Electoral College thing works. Maybe it's a kind of cognitive dissonance - but anyway, it has been explained a lot in the past few weeks and I think I'm finally starting to "get" it. It still seems kind of weird to me so I thought I'd share an article from CNN for those who also have a tough time with it like I do. Sorry in advance to those who are bored by this. Kakki ********* Think you're voting for president? Think again Electoral college system understood by few From Garrick Utley/CNN November 2, 2000 NEW YORK (CNN) -- If you think you are going to cast a vote for one of the presidential candidates, think again -- and look again at the small print on the ballot of that state. We are, lest we forget, voting for an elector, and they will elect the president. Luther Mook, for instance, will do the electing if George W. Bush wins in New York state. "The electoral college has been here since the beginning of our country. People are still unfamiliar with it," he said. Martin Connor will cast his electoral vote if Al Gore wins New York state. "It's not a secret vote, really ... You literally line up, as the roll is called, and drop the paper ballot into the ballot box for president," he said. The 538 electors are spread among states according to the number of each state's representatives and senators in Washington. Maine and Nebraska divide their electoral vote according to the results in each congressional district, but everywhere else, it's winner-take-all. How did we get this system? "We're in a republic, not a democracy. The founders were very careful to say they were worried about allowing people to directly elect representatives," said Dr. David Epstein, a political science professor at Columbia University. When the framers of the Constitution debated how to elect a president, there were no political parties, no national campaigns, and there was concern that regional candidates would splinter a popular vote for president and trigger weak chief executives. But there were potential faults in the system. The last time that was evident was in 1888, when Grover Cleveland, a Democrat running for re-election, narrowly won the popular vote. But Benjamin Harrison won more electoral votes by winning -- by slight margins -- in a number of key states. "If we had that again, where somebody won the election without winning the popular vote, the system would be changed in an instant," said Epstein. One reason it has not been changed yet is that the Electoral College favors the interests of the two dominant parties. In 1992, Ross Perot won 19 percent of the people's votes and zero electoral college votes. If that offers less choice for voters, it does provide for a stable and predictable two-party system that forces Republicans and Democrats to broaden their appeal by avoiding more extreme positions. It also forces candidates to conduct 51 campaigns -- one in each state and the District of Columbia. And so, the real presidential election will take place on the Monday following the second Wednesday of December, as 538 men and women -- most of whom are totally unknown to the American public -- gather in their respective state capitals and cast their ballots. Is there a chance that some might shift their votes? It has happened -- nine times -- but it has never affected the outcome of an election, which is announced in Congress in early January. And this January, there will be someone new taking the oath of office, elected for the people, by the people -- and the 538 members of the Electoral College ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:26:17 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: songs that evoke emotions (NJC) Many of the songs that do this to me have origins in my adolescence, the late 60's and early 70s, when my siblings and I would gather around the piano or the turntable to sing, to wit: "Candles in the Rain" - Melanie "Come on People" - Laura Nyro "Say it Loud (I'm Black and I'm Proud)" - James Brown "What's Going On" - Marvin Gaye "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" From "The Execution of Private Slovik" movie (This one should've been on my tear-jerker list, actually) "Do Right Woman" - Aretha Franklin - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 21:37:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc << What are 5 songs that evoke jubilance in you? >> Five of the million or so... Elvin Bishop, "Sure Feels Good" Santana, "Everything's Coming Our Way" Kenny Loggins, "Footloose" Jason Falkner, "Both Sides Now" Steely Dan, "Josie" Bonus selection: Doobie Brothers, "Listen to the Music" ;~) Bob NP: Joni, "Both Sides Now", Birmingham, England '83 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:48:33 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: TNT "All-Star Tribute To Joni Mitchell" free on VHS and audio cassette ~NTSC only~ Yesterday, only two people (both Canadians) took me up on this offer. Is there anyone out there who hasn't seen this? - ------------------------- I'll make copies of the TNT Tribute for anyone who sends me a blank VHS tape. (USA version only- I can't make PAL tapes. Sorry!) It' the finest 2 hours of tv ever produced by the Western World. My copy was recorded from a snow-free digital cable service in stereo but it includes commercials ("Ahhh! The power of CHEESE!"). Perhaps more importantly, you can get a cassette of Simon's most excellent Audience recording of the same evening. Get both and amaze your friends! http://tnt.turner.com/specials/jonimitchell/frame_home_exclude.html In the spirit of being a good neighbor to Canada, I'll cover return postage for the first 5 Canadians who request either the video or audio cassette. (3 to go!) Brother Lamadoo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 03:49:25 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: Tear Jerkers I came up with 10, so I figure I'm using 2 of my 9 on this one. Amelia- Joni Mitchell Un Bel Di- Puccini Stolen Car- Bruce Springsteen I Will Always Love You - Dolly Parton Burma Shave - Tom Waits Misfits - Neil Young Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas - Judy Garland Heart Like A Wheel - The McGarrigles The Only Living Boy In New York - Simon & Garfunkel The Late Show - Jackson Browne CC "...to see the tears and the kisses..." -- JM _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 23:17:55 EST From: CaliMermeyd@aol.com Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc Hi! I just joined this list yesterday so I think I'm a bit late on this thread but I'd like to add my opinion: Graham Nash's "Sleep Song" really invokes emotion for me. it may be the song as a whole, or just his beautiful, soothing voice, but i feel so emotionally intact when listening to that song also, anything with Joni, she just puts her heart into everthing. asta la pasta, Zelda ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 22:17:36 -0600 From: evian Subject: 5 songs boo-boo njc Just cleaning out my email, and was looking at my post from the other day in my SENT file... and realized that I unwittingly used "b-a-l-l-e-d" instead of "b-a-w-l-e-d"... oh my, what a different emotion the song would have for me then! Yikes.... I think the "5 goat-dancing songs" thread will be coming up again! Have a good Monday everyone! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:44:43 +1300 From: "Hell" Subject: Re: FAVORITE Pianists- Carole King...NJC, it never was "Greatest Pianists" Jim wrote: > You're absolutely right. I mis-read the thread. I thought it was 'best' > but it was 'favorite'. And yes, I agree that your opinion is completely > valid, Hell. Of course! But you certianly don't need permission from me or > anyone else. Go for it! And I wasn't singling you out, Hell. Do you think > I'm going to offend my favorite athlete on purpose? :) No problem. I do tend to over-react a little over things like this, but one thing that really annoys me is when I hear (or think I hear) people tell others how to think. No one's "opinion" is ever any better or worse than anyone else's - just different. I'm certainly not qualified to discuss who is the "best" guitarist or pianist ever, since I play neither myself, or know anything about the technicalities involved, and I'd hazard a guess that not many people on the list are. Just my opinion, of course! But I'm the ONLY person who can discuss MY favourites! Let's just forget about it, shall we?! ;o) Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:02:47 +1300 From: "Hell" Subject: Re: 5 songs that invoke emotion njc Evian wrote: > 3.) FM -- Landslide (balled like a baby when I saw Stevie perform this > one) Nice to see you back with us, my long-lost twin! Have to agree with you on Landslide - the version on the Live album gets me every time. I don't cry easily, and these songs don't necessarily get the waterworks going, but they do make me stop whatever I'm doing, and just listen till it's over (in no particular order): Joni - Two Grey Rooms Janis Ian - Jessie Shona Laing - South (NZ) Joan Armatrading - Willow Indigo Girls - Power of Two Buckingham Nicks - Crystal Sharon O'Neill - Maybe (NZ) Dave Dobbyn - Loyal (NZ) Carole King - Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me U2 - One Tree Hill (special recent significance!) Neil Young - Old Man Stephen Stills - 4 + 20 And the one song that WILL make me cry, probably only 10 people have ever heard. Three Men Missing - The Years Will Roll On By This was written in 1986 by a friend in a band, the day after Pat's (their bass player's) brother (Rossy) was killed driving home from a pub we were all drinking at. Pat and Rossy were also good friends of mine and we had an awful day the next day while they went to the hospital THREE times to identify the body, which they "couldn't find" the first two times. A complete cock-up on the hospital's part, and a horrific day for Pat and his girlfriend, Trish - who I was flatting with at the time. This was only 3 months after my father's death, and I couldn't even bring myself to go to the funeral - something I regret now. The song was written a day after Rossy's death, and still makes me bawl my eyes out - especially Pat's bass-playing! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 02:51:20 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Tear Jerkers (NJC) ckarma writes: << Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas - Judy Garland >> Not even an hour after I read this I was watching the local PBS affiliate when they were running a promo for their broadcast tomorrow of the film classic "Meet Me in St. Louis." Inexplicably, they showed a clip of Judy Garland doing this very song in the film. Gave me chills...like I had been visited by one of the ghosts of "A Christmas Carol" - the one of Christmas Past, or Christmas Yet to Come... (A tear-jerker of a film in its own right, but I digress). Anyway, when these things happen, this phenomenon we've been calling "synchronicity" here on the list, it makes me wonder why I don't believe more intensely in God, love, some kind of heaven and the oneness of all things. In my life, the proof of their existence is omnipresent and unmistakeable. And it doesn't hurt that the messenger in this case has "karma" in their name. ;-) In an unrelated and neither here nor there aside, PBS showed a sweet little short film right after the "St. Louis" promo called "Traveling Companion." At one point, one of the main characters was telling a story about how she had a woman friend who had just begun dating women after a lifetime of dating men exclusively. She asked the friend what she missed most about men. Her answer: "The silence." I love PBS. - -Julius ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #583 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?