From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #562 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 24 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 562 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #560 [dogbyte@aloha.net (french)] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #561 [dogbyte@aloha.net (french)] RE: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: * Bob Mueller's _SECOND_ search on the Internet, NJC, LONG but funny [Dflahm@aol.co] Re: Joni's MOA Comment ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Joni's MOA Comment [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni's MOA Comment ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Joni, Vincent ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Joni's MOA Comment [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni's MOA Comment [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Today in Joni History - October 24 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Joni's MOA Comment ["James L. Leonard" ] Macdonalds application NJC [catman ] MOA inhibitor [jan gyn ] Re: MOA inhibitor [Jerry Notaro ] Joni, Vincent, MOA [Steve Dulson ] Re: Macdonalds application NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: MOA inhibitor [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: MOA inhibitor [catman ] Re: Joni's MOA Comment ["Kakki" ] Re: MOA inhibitor [jan gyn ] Re: Joni's BD Card: Thanks artists, calling all writers [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni song & mention on lifetime & NYC (SJC) ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: Joni's MOA Comment [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Joni's MOA Comment [IVPAUL42@aol.com] bay area nader rally 10/21 (NJC) [jan gyn ] The Boston mystery [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: MOA inhibitor [catman ] Re: The Boston mystery ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Joni's MOA Comment NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The Boston mystery [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni's MOA Comment [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Joni's MOA Comment (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG ["Jim L'Hommedieu" There's a rare vibe in this world & Joni has that vibe. And I am tuned, for >better or worse, to that frequency. wow jim, well said....save that one ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 04:52:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG honey, the questions you ask! obviously, i came to the list for good and frequent fights with paul iv. what else?!?!?!?! seriously now. once marsha [the one with the enhanced nails] predicted that i would never make any friends on the list if i kept on being so...well, so much like me. i replied that i was in no way trying to make friends but only looking for debate and diversity. this exchange took place after an unfortunate misunderstanding with my other scorpio sister, julie z webb. [julie z webb, where art thou? don't you know we miss you? don't be so heartless, movie queen and serial child bearer!] well, marsha was partially right because i have had quite my share of donnybrooks on the list. one or two of these were devastating and in very, very, very poor taste. but most of them have been sublime, especially the argument i had with good old david wright -- whom i miss badly [where are you, aries wright?] -- on vibrato, that monster of a thread that every now and then raises its ugly head on the jmdl. much to everybody's surprise [my own included], i ended up meeting and loving and being moderately liked by the most fabulous people in the whole world. this is the closest thing to a family that i've ever had, and a rather incestuous one at that, since my relationship with some of my ''cousins'' hasn't been totally devoid of carnality, and i mean the real thing, mes petits. why have i stayed? the reasons are legion. i can talk about ''last year in marienbad'' here. i can be bawdy and camp. i can have my vibes picked up by all the psychics that inhabit this list [you know who you are]. i can revel in the joy of reading posts in english written by native speakers of english and learn more and more and more english everyday. i can take some of you to my special place on xmas [you know who you are and where that place is]. i can laugh and shriek and cry my eyes out. i can meet people that are my twins and people that are my opposite and love them just as much. i can get a lot of perks, such as the tape and the video trees and all the inside information. i can conspire to have the inner circle murdered and then change my mind and join the inner circle [though, there isn't one, really!]. i can talk about joni mitchell. i can shout ''relax!!!'' before jenny begins her set. i can rub elbows with frigging simon, for god's sake. i can do everything i would want to do only with my best friends. and now for the really scary part: you ARE my best friends in the world. folks, there's you and there are probably half a dozen more and that's it. oh, don't get me wrong: central casting couldn't supply so large and varied an array of characters as populates my life. but friends? uh-uh. as i grow older, i take a lot of pleasure in buying slimmer and slimmer phone indexes: i like my circle of friends boiled down to the choicest of broths now. you are my ''glace de viande''. only half a cup of you, and i can get the friendship gravy going for a week! there are so many of you that i love and/or miss and/or am intrigued by and/or am in awe of and/or admire and/or read every post of and/or delete every post. at present, there is one of you that i even WANT [oo la la...] i can't remember how i end up here. but i always remember why. wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:33:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: b-day greeting!!!!!!!njc this is one birthday greeting post i've been looking forward to. i've had all kinds of sisters, but no one ever like you. in our past lives, we rode side by side: we were walküren, we were wild huntresses in the forests, we were divine earth mothers. now we have come to meet again in this incarnation. in this life, you have been given the power to ride once more: you are an amazon woman, fiercely rising from your ashes time and again. no sooner are you pushed down by the hand of black sorcery than you surface one more time, stronger and more beautiful than ever before. in this life, i have given different gifts, but i still pray that i will be allowed to ride by your side, amazon sister. run on, magsie dearest. be happy as only an amazon woman can: in love and at war! love, wallistah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:42:45 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: * Bob Mueller's _SECOND_ search on the Internet, NJC, LONG but funny Bob's exact words were "naked chicks." DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:31:45 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment I don't intend to start a flame war (honestly), but I did want to respond to some of the more benign, sugar-coated interpretations of Joni's motives behind the MOA comment with my far more critical one. I bought MOA when it first arrived, and was immediately unimpressed with Joni's attitude towards her audience, as exhibited in that moment. It left a bad taste in my mouth from the beginning. Say what you will about the Van Gogh comment, but it comes from a very conceited point of view, is delivered with holier-than-thou exasperation, and is most definitely a "put down" of the audience. No one has mentioned Joni's pained moans before launching into the spiel, either, which sets it up as an obvious put down. Perhaps the most remarkable thing about the whole episode to me is that Joni thought it was worth having repeated ('til the end of time) on her album. Had I been the performer, I would have been ashamed of my behavior that night and left that comment in the can where it belonged. My suspicions about Joni's disdain for her audience were confirmed in spades the first time (finally!) I had a chance to attend one of her concerts. I had first found Joni with the release of LOTC (or Clouds, maybe...I can't remember now which was the first in my possession), devoured he songs, and immediately elevated her to "favorites" status. I had all three of her albums prior to Blue being released, and, when that came along, and, to some extent, because of her connections to other "favorites" of mine (CSNY, James Taylor), she went to the very top of my heap. Her lyrics were by far the most interesting and well-crafted, and Blue struck a far more personal chord with me. In any event, due to where I had been living in the late-60s/early-70s, and my age then (I'm 46 now), I never had the chance to see Joni until 1983, during her WTRF Tour. I was *really* stoked! At about 1:00 in the afternoon on the day of the show, I was stopped at a red light and was rear-ended (in a small Datsun) by a Chevy Impala doing 30 miles an hour. I kid you not. Fortunately, I saw him coming in my rearview mirror and locked my arms against the steering wheel so as to push back hard against my seat. I had a little whiplash, but my car was *totaled*, as you can imagine. Anyway, in spite of being at the accident scene and then at the emergency room, my excitement at the prospect of seeing Joni that night didn't diminish. At about 6:00, I was finally able to begin the 1-1/2 hour drive (in a borrowed car) to Boston for the 8:00 show. Joni was to perform as part of one of my favorite series, the outdoor Concerts On The Common, and the weather was beautiful. Joni came out late (at about 8:30) to joyous applause and began to play "Song For Sharon." I was absolutely beside myself, and thought, "Oh, man, this show is going to be one of the best I've ever seen" (and I admit I wasn't very impressed with the WTRF album, which had already been out for several months at that point). Halfway through my *favorite* song, though, Joni abruptly turned and walked off stage in a huff because some people were still getting back to their seats from having visited the restroom or having bought a Coke at the concession stand or what have you before she finally came out. I couldn't F@$#ing believe it! You could have heard a pin drop in that outdoor venue at that moment (Boston crowds were great then, and these people were her *fans*!). She had been on stage for maybe 3 minutes, tops, when she walked off. A stage announcer soon told us all was well and to stay put and that Joni would be back in a few minutes. More than *an hour* later, Joni came back on, played "Chinese Cafe," said, "Come back and see me sometime when the lights are good," or some such total nonsense, and split. It took me a *very,* *very* long time to forgive her for that. I don't care what her emotional situation was at that time, or on that night, but it was unforgivable prima donna-type behavior. I know I told this story once before, when I first joined the list, but thought it deserved repeating as another example to illustrate my point. I love Joni's music again (I never didn't, to be honest), but I no longer have any illusions that she is this wonderful, loving person. Maybe she's changed, and is more grateful for her fans. I heard some nice stories of the way she interacted with JMDLers at the Mendel. Plus, she seemed nice enough when I saw my first proper Joni concert this spring. I'd really like to think she's a better person these days. "Boston Jim" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:50:56 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment In a message dated 10/24/00 9:37:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << Joni was to perform as part of one of my favorite series, the outdoor Concerts On The Common, and the weather was beautiful. Joni came out late (at about 8:30) to joyous applause and began to play "Song For Sharon." I was absolutely beside myself, and thought, "Oh, man, this show is going to be one of the best I've ever seen" (and I admit I wasn't very impressed with the WTRF album, which had already been out for several months at that point). Halfway through my *favorite* song, though, Joni abruptly turned and walked off stage in a huff because some people were still getting back to their seats from having visited the restroom or having bought a Coke at the concession stand or what have you before she finally came out. I couldn't F@$#ing believe it! You could have heard a pin drop in that outdoor venue at that moment (Boston crowds were great then, and these people were her *fans*!). She had been on stage for maybe 3 minutes, tops, when she walked off. A stage announcer soon told us all was well and to stay put and that Joni would be back in a few minutes. More than *an hour* later, Joni came back on, played "Chinese Cafe," said, "Come back and see me sometime when the lights are good," or some such total nonsense, and split. It took me a *very,* *very* long time to forgive her for that. I don't care what her emotional situation was at that time, or on that night, but it was unforgivable prima donna-type behavior. >> Based on reports of others who have seen her in concert several times over the years, the Boston experience was obviously an anomaly, Jim. Get over it! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:18:13 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment > Based on reports of others who have seen her in concert several times over the years, the Boston experience was obviously an anomaly, Jim. Get over it! > > Paul I I am over it, Paul. (Well, maybe not entirely...it was a very tough pill to swallow, coming from one of my very favorite artists, in whom I had a very strong emotional attachment). That Boston show may well have been an isolated incident, but it served as another example to help illustrate the larger point I was trying to make (to what end, I'm not really sure...other than to express an honest opinion I have, which is contrary to most of the others I've read in the current thread...but it was probably a mistake to voice it). Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:22:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Joni, Vincent Fred wrote: > But I agree that Joni is successful at diffusing the > tension, and I do realize that straddling the line > between pleasing one's self as an artist and > pleasing the audience is a difficult task. Perhaps someone who attended the Merriweather Post BSN concert has already mentioned this, but Joni was again successful on that particular evening, responding to requestors as she indicated the orchestra behind her(paraphrased): "Hey, you can't expect these folks to jam to just anything!" Much laughter from the audience, who then ceased to yell their "wish list." > Besides, it's fine if Joni doesn't always make > perfect sense, isn't it? She's still SIQUOMB, isn't > she? Yes, and YES. Lori in DC P.S. - My apologies to the Joni-only list for omitting the NJC tag on the breast cancer email. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:05:02 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment In a message dated 10/24/00 10:46:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << to express an honest opinion I have, which is contrary to most of the others I've read in the current thread...but it was probably a mistake to voice it). >> Hi Jim, it was most definitely not a mistake to voice your opinion. That's one of the great things about this list, and I happen to have a high regard for your opinion. Thanks for sharing your Boston experience. I know that Joni isn't perfect (like me :~D ) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:07:37 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment In a message dated 10/24/2000 9:46:45 AM Central Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << (to what end, I'm not really sure...other than to express an honest opinion I have, which is contrary to most of the others I've read in the current thread...but it was probably a mistake to voice it). >> No, not a mistake at all, Jim. Your experience was real, your feelings were genuine, and after all you've only stated the facts. Paul's comment was not inappropriate imo and would have been better kept to himself, but he's as free to vent here as anyone... On another subject, Joni DID play a complete '83 show as I have a copy of it. Did she come back later in the tour or what? Do you know? Bob, who got burned once buying a Chrysler and will not 'get over it' but rather chooses to buy other brands... NP: Shadows & Light ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:34:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 24 1994: Tonight, Reprise Records held a Turbulent Indigo record release "meet & greet" at the Ruth Bloom Art Gallery in Santa Monica. The invited guests and the press could view more than 30 of Joni's paintings while hearing the new album tracks on the gallery's sound system. 1998: The Ottawa Citizen publishes a preview to the upcoming Bob/Joni concert at the Corel Center, saying "Not to get hysterical or anything, but there's a chance her show with Bob Dylan could be the concert of the year." Read the article here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981024oc.cfm Also, the Minneapolis Star Tribune publishes a review of last night's concert, saying "Though her voice no longer reaches those clarion high notes, Mitchell's singing was about nuance, not emotion. She made "Amelia" into a spare, eloquent, beautiful discussion of dreams and false alarms." Read the article here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981024mst.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:32:39 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment Thanks a lot Jimmy, and Bob, for supporting my decision to express my opinion. I knew it wouldn't be a popular one. Bob wrote, in part: > On another subject, Joni DID play a complete '83 show as I have a copy of it. Did she come back later in the tour or what? Do you know? > I honestly don't, Bob. She must have, if you have a show, but I wasn't aware of it (and I was pretty plugged in to the Boston concert scene then, I thought). I wish I *had been* aware of it. She certainly owed us who were on the Common, and Don Law (the promoter), a "make good." :-) Where and when was the show? Did she play the Boston Garden or something, later in the year? The show I went to was during the summer. Thanks again, you guys. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:06:05 +0100 From: catman Subject: Macdonalds application NJC This was sent to me by a lister and I thought I'd share it! This is an actual job application a 17 year old boy >>>> >>>>>submitted at a McDonald's fast-food establishment in >>>> >>>>> Florida........ and they hired him because he was so >>>> >>>>>honest >>>> >>>>>and funny! >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> NAME: >>>> >>>>> Greg Bulmash >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> SEX: >>>> >>>>> Not yet. Still waiting for the right person. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> DESIRED POSITION: >>>> >>>>> Company's President or Vice President. But >>>>seriously, >>>> >>>>>whatever's available. If I was in a position to be picky, I >>>> >>>>> wouldn't be applying here in the first place. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> DESIRED SALARY: >>>> >>>>> $185,000 a year plus stock options and a Michael >>>>Ovitz >>>> >>>>>style severance package. If that's not possible, make an >>>> >>>>> offer and we can haggle. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> EDUCATION: >>>> >>>>> Yes. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> LAST POSITION HELD: >>>> >>>>> Target for middle management hostility. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> SALARY: >>>> >>>>> Less than I'm worth. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> MOST NOTABLE ACHIEVEMENT: >>>> >>>>> My incredible collection of stolen pens and post-it >>>>notes. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> REASON FOR LEAVING: >>>> >>>>> It sucked. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> HOURS AVAILABLE TO WORK: >>>> >>>>> Any. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> PREFERRED HOURS: >>>> >>>>> 1:30-3:30 p.m., Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECIAL SKILLS? >>>> >>>>> Yes, but they're better suited to a more intimate >>>> >>>>>environment. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> MAY WE CONTACT YOUR CURRENT EMPLOYER? >>>> >>>>> If I had one, would I be here? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> DO YOU HAVE ANY PHYSICAL CONDITIONS THAT WOULD >>>>PROHIBIT >>>> >>>>>YOU >>>> >>>>>FROM LIFTING UP TO 50 LBS? >>>> >>>>> Of what? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> DO YOU HAVE A CAR? >>>> >>>>> I think the more appropriate question here would be >>>>"Do >>>> >>>>>you >>>> >>>>>have a car that runs?" >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> HAVE YOU RECEIVED ANY SPECIAL AWARDS OR RECOGNITION? >>>> >>>>> I may already be a winner of the Publishers Clearing >>>>house >>>> >>>>>Sweepstakes. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> DO YOU SMOKE? >>>> >>>>> On the job no, on my breaks yes. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE DOING IN FIVE YEARS? >>>> >>>>> Living in the Bahamas with a fabulously wealthy dumb >>>>sexy >>>> >>>>>blonde super model who thinks I'm the greatest thing >>>> >>>>> since sliced bread. Actually, I'd like to be doing >>>>that >>>> >>>>>now. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> DO YOU CERTIFY THAT THE ABOVE IS TRUE AND COMPLETE >>>>TO THE >>>> >>>>>BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE? >>>> >>>>> Yes, Absolutely. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> SIGN HERE: >>>> >>>>> Aries. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:29:14 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: MOA inhibitor (snip) >I am over it, Paul. (Well, maybe not entirely...it was a very tough pill to >swallow, coming from one of my very favorite artists, in whom I had a very >strong emotional attachment). >That Boston show may well have been an isolated incident, but it served as >another example to help illustrate the larger point I was trying to make (to >what end, I'm not really sure...other than to express an honest opinion I >have, which is contrary to most of the others I've read in the current >thread...but it was probably a mistake to voice it). >Jim I appreciated reading this review. Joni's difficult, like a lot of other great talents. Plus, she's a smoker; people who smoke are usually sort of prickly. - -jan :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:06:32 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: MOA inhibitor And that was 17 years ago. Joni has changed considerably since then.. Think of the crap she endured in 1986 at Amnesty International. If ever she had a right to walk, it was then. Jerry jan gyn wrote: > (snip) > >I am over it, Paul. (Well, maybe not entirely...it was a very tough pill to > >swallow, coming from one of my very favorite artists, in whom I had a very > >strong emotional attachment). > I appreciated reading this review. Joni's difficult, like a lot of other > great talents. Plus, she's a smoker; people who smoke are usually sort of > prickly. > -jan :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:07:57 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni, Vincent, MOA Kakki wrote: >Maybe Steve Dulson can add his take on it. Steve, after all, >was practically in the front row that night, while I was almost in the back Kakki, who was a mere child, a mere child, I tell you! at that show is giving this old man a lot of credit in the memory department. Everything she says sounds right, though. The requests and yelling did seem to feed off themselves, and did seem to come at an emotional break-point in the evening. I too remember Joni's responses as playful and good-natured. The whole mood at those shows was very celebratory, given the success of C & S - there was a sort of "home town girl makes good" atmosphere, Joni having been thoroughly adopted by LA at that point, and many in the audience had seen her at previous shows - Greek Theatre, Troubadour, etc. All the best, - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:26:11 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Macdonalds application NJC In a message dated 10/24/00 1:37:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << This is an actual job application a 17 year old boy >>>> >>>>>submitted at a McDonald's fast-food establishment in >>>> >>>>> Florida..... >> Trust me Colin. All of the employees at Florida's McDonald's are at least 85 years old :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:29:50 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: MOA inhibitor In a message dated 10/24/00 1:46:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us writes: << Plus, she's a smoker; people who smoke are usually sort of prickly. -jan :) >> smokeracon = < :)>---~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:04:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: MOA inhibitor > Plus, she's a smoker; people who smoke are usually sort of > prickly. Typical anti smoking comment. how can you say such a thing? If you were here, I'd shoot you - after first beating you to a pulp. We smokers are calm and peace loving people. Why the fuck do you think we smoke? It has a very calming effect. > > -jan :) - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:06:07 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment Jim wrote: > I don't intend to start a flame war (honestly), but I did want >to respond to some of the more benign, sugar-coated >interpretations of Joni's motives behind the MOA comment >with my far more critical one. It's interesting, Jim, that you are concerned about expressing your critical opinion here, yet you yourself diss the opinions of myself and some others by calling them "benign" and "sugar-coated". > I bought MOA when it first arrived, and was immediately >unimpressed with Joni's attitude towards her audience, as >exhibited in that moment. It left a bad taste in my mouth >from the beginning. Say what you will about the Van Gogh >comment, but it comes from a very conceited point of view, >is delivered with holier-than-thou exasperation, and is most >definitely a "put down" of the audience. I guess it's unfortunate that the MOA comment gave you a bad opinion of her. Steve and I, who were there, have attempted to put it into perspective and context but I guess that's "sugar-coating" to some people. I give respect and consideration to your "in-person" experience of the Boston Commons show and don't say you are slanting what happened there. It works both ways. You don't have to put down someone else's experience to make room for your own, you know. We can debate here or express our opinions, hopefully without disrespecting the person(s) expressing it. Kakki, not meaning to start a flame war and going to sit in the corner now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:20:44 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: MOA inhibitor >> Plus, she's a smoker; people who smoke are usually sort of >> prickly. > > Typical anti smoking comment. how can you say such a thing? If you were here, I'd shoot >you - after first beating you to a pulp. We smokers are calm and peace loving people. Why >the fuck do you think we smoke? It has a very calming effect. >bw >colin Sorry; I should have been clearer: I meant TOBACCO smokers are usually prickly; I know nothing of CRACK smokers (rimshot). - -jan :)--~ (a quitter who craves a cigarette almost every night, even though i never get to have sex) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:51:49 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's BD Card: Thanks artists, calling all writers In a message dated 10/23/00 4:21:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JoniMessages@aol.com writes: << So anyway, on to Part Two. What's this card going to say? >> Hi Jim! We could just have a *senior* moment and say Happy Birthday (Mr. Gore, Mr. Bush, etc...) and then write in Joni's name for President on the ballot, since her birthday falls on election day :~) sorry for my silliness, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:52:00 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Joni song & mention on lifetime & NYC (SJC) Actually, to correct myself, it was Ann Wilson doing the bowing. Although they were all pretty humbled at the very mention of Joni's name! Amy Grant and Ann Wilson did verses of Big Yellow Taxi while the others added harmonies and loads of guitar. It was the one song that they all appeared to know in that brief acoustic part of the program. BTW - Wynonna rocks. Brenda n.p. - Wynonna - "Only Love" "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > I think it was Melissa Etheridge doing the bowing! > > The show airs again tomorrow evening at 11pm PST for those who missed it. > > Brenda > > Nikki Johnson wrote: > > > I just finished watching the Lifetime concert tonight Girls and Guitars and > > it was great, I loved it. Those who know me know I am a huge Heart fan also > > and they love Joni. So at one part the girls from Heart, Sheryl Crow, > > Melissa Ethridge, Wynonna, Cyndi Lauper and Amy Grant are sitting around > > jamming and they say they they have to do a song by another great female > > artist Joni. So They play Big Yellow Taxi (in standard tuning) and then > > afterwards they say that they wish Joni was there, and playing...etc. she is > > so great...etc. Then they said "Wait...no...cause then none of us would be > > able to play if Joni was playing" She is a guitar goddess or something to > > that effect. And 1 of them(I forget which one) waves her arms up and down > > like bowing to Joni...lol. I was happy they were acknowledging Joni, even > > though they played Big Yellow Taxi, and what a huge impact she had in their > > lives. > > I just finished watching it cause I was in NYC w/ Julius, May, Patrick, > > Allison, Rose & her brother and we went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. > > It was so overwhelming all the incredible art in that building and Patrick > > was nice enough to be my tour guide...he amazes me w/ his knowledge! It was > > a fun day and great to see everyone again! Thanks for coming out to play! > > Love Nikki > > > > "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ > > Billy Joel - -- Brenda J. Walker soulstreet inc. Phone: 310-373-4927 Fax: 310-373-4957 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:09:50 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment > It's interesting, Jim, that you are concerned about expressing your critical opinion here, yet you yourself diss the opinions of myself and some others by calling them "benign" and "sugar-coated". > > I guess it's unfortunate that the MOA comment gave you a bad opinion of her. Steve and I, who were there, have attempted to put it into perspective and context but I guess that's "sugar-coating" to some people. I give respect and consideration to your "in-person" experience of the Boston Commons show and don't say you are slanting what happened there. It works both ways. You don't have to put down someone else's experience to make room for your own, you know. We can debate here or express our opinions, hopefully without disrespecting the person(s) expressing it. > Hi, Kakki. I feel badly that you viewd my comments as directed at you personally. I assure you I did not have your, nor Steve's, first-hand reflections in mind when I decided to write this morning. As a digester, I read a whole day's worth of posts in one sitting, at night, usually, and, to be honest, I can't remember who said what most of the time (or even *what* was said, in detail) if I elect to write the following morning, as I did today. Many people have participated in this discussion, and my general impression was that most were choosing to view the MOA incident through rose-colored glasses. You, nor your post, ever entered my mind this morning (not that you don't often, however... I'm quite a secret admirer of yours, in actual fact, and always enjoy reading of your musical exploits in L.A., or whatever else you choose to write about). I love Joni's artistry deeply, always have, but in spite of trying to give her every benefit of the doubt over the years, I've come to view her attitude toward her audience (and "peons" in general) as one of veiled contempt. I always felt that the MOA comments were a manifestation of what I believe is this flaw in her character, and I elected, however stupidly in the context of the JMDL, to express this opinion. I would expect nothing less than the most positive spin from her most ardent fans, and am still puzzled as to why I went ahead and wrote what I did, under those circumstances. I can only defend my post as an honest admission of my feelings about Joni as a person. I want the people I admire to be kind, as well as talented. Again, please know that your opinions weren't specifically influential in any way, as pertains my post, except as they contributed to the overall feeling I got from the last couple of digests. Sincerely, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:30:43 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment In a message dated 10/24/00 4:31:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << It's interesting, Jim, that you are concerned about expressing your critical opinion here, yet you yourself diss the opinions of myself and some others by calling them "benign" and "sugar-coated". >> yowsaa. well... ahemm....cough...ahem...cough... there's certainly no sugar in that sentence now is there. i really think that if joni was pissed on moa, every one would have known it. like in msg a few years ago...with the dylan fans....you know...the.."two little f--ks". that was very clear. really. when joni get's pissed, i think it becomes very clear. patrick np. mark knopfler - junkie doll ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:46:31 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment In a message dated 10/24/00 5:35:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << I love Joni's artistry deeply, always have, but in spite of trying to give her every benefit of the doubt over the years, I've come to view her attitude toward her audience (and "peons" in general) as one of veiled contempt. I always felt that the MOA comments were a manifestation of what I believe is this flaw in her character, and I elected, however stupidly in the context of the JMDL, to express this opinion. I would expect nothing less than the most positive spin from her most ardent fans, and am still puzzled as to why I went ahead and wrote what I did, under those circumstances. I can only defend my post as an honest admission of my feelings about Joni as a person. I want the people I admire to be kind, as well as talented. >> I would not want to be your close friend or partner, and make one grievous mistake, because you seem to hold one incident as truth above all evidence to the contrary. By now you have read hundreds of accounts of Joni's concerts in which she did not stalk offstage and dozens of accounts of JMDL members meeting her and being warmly and graciously received, yet you hold on to this one experience from nearly 20 years ago as being a trump card over the rest. And not only have you expressed your time-lapsed opinion in great detail on this list once, but TWICE now, which tells me that you are close-minded about the issue and unwilling to accept the testimony of others whose experiences with Joni run much further and wider than your own. Certainly you are welcome to detail your experience and express your opinion, but you did that already months ago. And for you to dredge it back up now because of a discussion thread about a 30-year-old quote tells me you haven't learned a thing during your time here. That said, I do not think my comment to "Get over it!" was inappropriate at all. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:15:44 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: bay area nader rally 10/21 (NJC) (puff-puff-puff) Anybody go to that Ralph Nader rally at Kaiser auditorium in Oakland 10/21? Was kind of cool- Patty Smith showed up and played like four songs. Nader was great; what he lacked in 'sound byte' charisma he made up for with the sheer intelligence of his selflessness. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:30:02 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The Boston mystery << Where and when was the show? Did she play the Boston Garden or something, later in the year? The show I went to was during the summer. >> OK, now this gets very interesting...I pulled the 2 CD's, and they state "Boston Commons, Boston, MA, July 20, 1983". Now you may ask, well Bob, how do you know it was REALLY Boston? On the domestic part of her world tour, during "Solid Love" she would sing 'right in the middle of this ********* heartache", and substitute whatever town she was in, or sometimes the State. (Oklahome heartache, Los Angeles heartache, etc.) I listened to the version of Solid Love and she clearly sings "right in the middle of this BOSTON heartache"....further to that, she closes the 'pre-encore' portion of the show with Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody, and says: "Thanks, Boston, my apologies again, we've got a lot of technical difficulty up here, I hope you'll come back sometime and see the show with its full lighting and staging and, uh, and we can present it properly. Thank you very much for your attention" Maybe you left too early, Jim, and she came back out and played all this later that same night, who knows? But here's what I've got from that night: Coyote Free Man In Paris Cotton Ave. Edith & The Kingpin You Turn Me On... You Dream Flat Tires Song For Sharon Wild Things Run Fast Sweet Bird Banquet Raised On Robbery Refuge Of The Roads You're So Square... Solid Love Chinese Cafe Grapevine Underneath The Streetlights Woodstock Not a bad set, I'd say! Typically that '83 set list was 23/24 songs long and she did 18 (that I have). Except for what you've said, it doesn't seem to jive...but it does sound like Joni tried her best to give the crowd it's money's worth! I'd love to hear if anybody else can shed light on this one... Bob NP: "Heard It Through The Grapevine", Boston '83 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:42:27 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: MOA inhibitor > (rimshot). > - I don't know what that word means tho it sounds rude. I am smoking tobacco right now, so you are safe-or maybe not-I haven't quite decided. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:49:30 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: The Boston mystery Wow, Bob. I don't know what to say. I *was* there, with Addie, who can back me up. She really did open with "Song For Sharon" and walk off in the middle of it, she really did keep us waiting for over an hour, and she really did come out and play "Chinese Cafe" and then leave for good. Her comments that you quote sound somewhat like what I remember her saying, but I don't recall them being that apologetic. Maybe she did a "make good" the next night, or later in the summer, and the apology was in reference to the other show. Or, maybe I saw her the following summer, also on the Common? Did she by chance do a show there again the next year? I'm baffled. Jim > OK, now this gets very interesting...I pulled the 2 CD's, and they state "Boston Commons, Boston, MA, July 20, 1983". > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:48:58 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment NJC In a message dated 10/24/2000 11:35:54 AM Central Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Paul's comment was not inappropriate imo and would have been better kept to himself, but he's as free to vent here as anyone... >> Just for the record...I meant say that the comment was not appropriate...at least I added the appropriate NJC tag! ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:55:33 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Boston mystery In a message dated 10/24/2000 5:48:16 PM Central Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << Or, maybe I saw her the following summer, also on the Common? Did she by chance do a show there again the next year? I'm baffled. >> Or maybe you & Addie were doing some REALLY good drugs! :~D Like I said, it's a mystery, but I'm pretty positive she didn't play any dates in '84... Bob NP: Van Morrison, live at Bimbo's, San Francisco, 1/25/99 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:12:10 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment When I am so far behind in Joni mail, (about 300 because I just haven't had a lot of energy for it since Kenny's death) sometimes I start from the most recent to see what's up, as I did this evening. A few comments: Paul wrote: <> Which I found ill-willed and obnoxious. I'm sure you could have found a way to state that you thought it was an anomaly, Paul, without the condescending attitude. Life is just way too short for this kind of put down, IMHO. Which brought Boston Jim to say: <> To which I say: No one should apologize for an opinion on this list. IMHO, that is exactly what this list is all about! I have learned so much from the varying opinions on the list, and I am very grateful for them, especially when they are respectful. When Joni played the Boston Common in 1983, I had a 3 week old baby, a 2 year toddler, and just didn't have the energy to go into town for it, even though I have loved Joni's music since 1968. When I eagerly read the reviews the next day, I was disappointed that she acted out like that. It took me a long time to get over it as well, even though I was not there. If someone is hired and being paid to "professionally" do a concert, I truly think there is a responsibility to act professionally. However, the bottom line for me, is Joni is human, just like all of us. We all have our moments that we would like to forget about. Perhaps this is one of hers. <> The show I have on tape is the show from Boston Common, dated Wednesday, July 20, 1983. It has a full set list, as well as her "rant", going off-stage thing, and coming back to play on. After reading on Jonimitchell.com that Boston was at the very end of a grueling World Tour, and reading about Post Polio Syndrome, I had a lot more compassion for her behavior that night. It's so easy to judge others when you don't have the whole story. I try to remember there is always another side. Hugs, Ashara (still grieving) www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:50:29 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's MOA Comment (md) In a message dated 10/24/00 3:15:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << I would not want to be your close friend or partner, and make one grievous mistake, because you seem to hold one incident as truth above all evidence to the contrary. >> Hey Paul, hows that Dale Carnegie course going anyway......bet you have stars all over your beanie. You know constant happiness has been proven to be bad for people so when Im feeling "too good" i feel like emailing you just to be brought back to earth. big hug....marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:46:15 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG About Mags' question, Lamadoo wrote: >> There's a rare vibe in this world & Joni has that vibe. And I am tuned, for >> better or worse, to that frequency. In Zen, they talk about archetypes. These are sort of like ideals. For example, I fell in love with Karen because she embodied the "type" that I liked way before I met her. It's not that she +invented+ the impossibly leggy, high-cheekboned look- she merely possessed it. Since I'm a smart alec raised with light jazz of the 60s, when Joni came along with her whip-smart, jazz influenced music, I checked "IN". Even though she didn't invent the beret look, (we all know that Rickie Lee Jones did), Joni did embody it. I fell for Joni because she personified my pre-existing ideal. np: Sing Along With Basie (featuring Mr. Basie and his band, Joe Williams, Dave Lambert, Jon Hendricks and Annie Ross. Wow is this a fun record...... My Dad made the awful mistake of LENDING me half of his LPs........ What he doesn't know yet, and what he will eventually regret is that he will NEVER get them back! Relishing the chance to quote myself, Jim L'Hommedieu PS. At PazFest, a bunch of us were talking about the TNT Tribute to Joni. I turned to David Lahm and said, "What was it you said about Diana Krall's performance? She was 'milking' it?" Smiling, David said, " 'Squeeeezing' it. I said she was 'squeezing' it..... I love to quote myself!" "Yeah," I said, "We _all_ do!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:10:04 EDT From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: The Boston mystery greetings boston jim, & miscellaneous listers... thanks for sharing your ideas. i always applaud anyones resistance to this joint's tendancy to deify joni. let's allow her to be a human being, which, sometimes, means being a jerk. we need to seperate the artist from the art! but your recollections of the boston show are interesting to me, because i was at that concert too jim and while i remember things a bit differently than you, i discovered that my memory of the evening was unreliable in many of the same ways as yours. i know for a fact, tho, that her first song of the night was not song for sharon, because i will never forget the opening chords of coyote, with which she began the concert. i got all choked up, hearing those familiar chords, and i was suddenly sick at the thought that the woman i was with, who had the remarkably poor judgement to later marry me, might notice! but as EYE recalled, song for sharon was started about 3 songs into her opening set, and then the famous tantrum...and off the stage she went. gone for almost an hour...then back to boos and hisses, and wearing a different outfit...she then played MAYBE 4 or 5 more songs and, when she had won us back and the concert was about to take off, she just up and left - (i remember her backing off stage to the closing chords of woodstock. no goodnight? just left and the lights came up and every one was confused?) that's how i remember it. but my pal and veteran list member, mark d., sent me a tape of that show, the same tape to which bob refers, and i could not believe it! because in fact, she DID perform almost an entire set before song for sharon was attempted. and when she came back, after her 45-60 minute siesta, she did quite a few more songs than i recall. (and this show was the only one. she never performed in boston again, until the BSN tour of last summer...) we can conclude one of two things. either her abrupt stalking off stage was so upsetting to us joniphiles that it completely skewed our perceptions...or joni's secret police confiscated all the tapes of the show and padded them with numbers from other venues and then redistributed them to gullible types like our pal, bob mueller. as i later learned, joni was upset with the promoters of the show that night, before she ever came on stage, over them not allowing her to hang some banners she had painted as part of her set design. the promoters were concerned that the banners would obscure the big miller high life sign that stood in the back of the stage (one of the concert sponsors) and refused to allow her to put them up. so she came on stage already pissed, and, probably suffering from exhaustion and post polio syndrome and blah blah blah, and a restless crowd was just the last straw. and she took it out on us. i bet we have all been guilty of misdirected anger at least once in our lives. mea culpa. but i do think that ashara is right. just because someone acts like as asshole, doesn't necessarily mean they are one. i don't know about you, but i find that a comforting thought...so should paul ivess. take care! ric ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #562 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?