From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #560 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Monday, October 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 560 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: A Case of Joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: A Case of Joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Eavesdropping on Tom Rush [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: A Case of Joni [Joseph Palis ] The Blue Nile ["secret desire" ] Re: Tom Rush (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: The Blue Nile [Jason Maloney ] Re: Joni, Vincent, MOA ["Kakki" ] Re: A Case of Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni song & mention on lifetime & NYC (SJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: A Case of Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni, Vincent, MOA [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ObituaryNJC [catman ] Today in Joni History - October 21 [Today in Joni History ] Today In Joni History - October 22 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - October 23 [Today in Joni History ] KennyGrantUsPeace (from JZW) [Les Irvin ] Re: Joni song & mention on lifetime & NYC (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Joni's BD Card: Thanks artists, calling all writers [JoniMessages@aol.com] RE: Friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG ["Nikki Johnson" ] Your Case of Joni [was A Case of Joni] [quiff@earthling.co.uk] Boy George, redux ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Boy George, redux [michael w yarbrough ] Re: Your Case of Joni [was A Case of Joni] ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Your Case of Joni [was A Case of Joni] [Jason Maloney > Let me suggest here that if most of those musicians are like me, the Joni songs that infleuenced me the most were from those early albums, and up through Hejira and maybe a little beyond. I expect therre was not much rancor among the artists to do something from her more recent albums, but maybe that's because Joni is about 20 years ahead of her time, so the generation that will cover Turbulent Indigo is still in grammar school. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:09:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of Joni In a message dated 10/23/00 1:06:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LasaterJ@aol.com writes: << And what is Duncan Sheik doing on anyone's tribute album? >> I thought that was a brand of condoms. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 04:38:59 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Eavesdropping on Tom Rush As Kakki mentioned, we got to see Tom Rush at McHabes, and he did his version of Circle Game which he still plays very much like his original -- some nice guitar work. Tom's a great guitarist, and did not strike a single sour or buzz note and does some very elaborate picking while singing in a steadfast way at the same time. Like Neil Young, he has a few guitars on stage which are pre-tuned, and he only made a few tuning adjustments through the set which he covered with great comical patter. I wonder if Joni taught Tom or he taught Joni the use of story telling while re-tuning. Tom was available in the lobby both before and after the show, and as Kakki mentioned, someone was talking with him about Joni. I didn't hear what the first guy was saying, but Tom's response was "Well, Joni was a very ambitious young woman." It also seemed to me that Circle Game was the most warmly received song that night. I'm still doing a little research, but I will have a few things to report soon about Joni and Carlos Castaneda and her recent attendance at a gathering where the supposedly real brujo Don Juan Matus made an appearance. love and money to everybody, Clark NP: Eminem - Marshall Mathers (thanks Michael, this really is a very interesting CD) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:15:53 +0800 (PHT) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: A Case of Joni that happens, i noticed, in most tribute albums. they feature the "best known" songs so that people who are only vaguely aware of this artist being given tribute to can be inveigled to buy the album. i remember one friend who only bought Sergio Mendes' album because she knew "Bridges" only from among the song choices and thought that its worth a buy if only for that song she likes. i agree that there are songs that should have been covered more and that there are artists who should have covered these songs, but i guess the record producers aren't always attuned towards creating an album with seldom-heard songs and seldom-heard artists. they want the album to sell well beyond the hard-core fans of the artist, in this case, Joni. i like sarah maclachlan and annie lennox but i agree that they should have at least rendered a different Joni song or re-recorded the song they already recorded in their albums (which ironically were not found in their albums, but from "b-sides"). i am one of those who heard only of duncan sheik and this is an opportunity for me to know more about the artist: through this tribute to Joni album. actually if i am a record producer (and one where I don't care much about financial returns... but then what am i doing as a record producer if i don't want profits), i would like to have a dream Joni tribute where i will ask artists of different musical persuasions to sing. i know for a fact that sopranos Dawn Upshaw and Renee Fleming are among those who admitted being influenced by Joni, as well as theatre singers like Betty Buckley and Patti LuPone. that way, the songs of Joni will be interpreted in various musical lights and will enhance the musicality of her song. but then, i am not a record producer . . . :) Joseph (appreciating the northeast monsoon in Manila) > Is anyone else more than a little disappointed by the track listing of "A > Case of Joni?" For starters, there are only 13 tracks, and they could have > easily fit 4 or 5 more on the CD. I'm not crazy about the song selection > either...I mean, ANOTHER cover of Big Yellow Taxi? ANOTHER cover of > Woodstock? The selection of songs is heavily skewed in favor of Joni's early, > folk period, and it almost completely ignores the last 20 years of her music. > > They (Warner Bros.?) make matters worse by recycling covers that most of us > already have (the Sarah McLachlan and Annie Lennox tracks, new studio > versions of Elton John's "Free Man" and kd lang's "Help Me" from the tribute > concert... or at least, I hope they're new studio versions...) > > Lastly, most of the artists who have been the most outspoken in their > admiration of Joni's work (Peter Gabriel, Sting, Prince, and Paul Westerberg > are some names that come to mind) are nowhere to be found on the tribute > album. > And what is Duncan Sheik doing on anyone's tribute album? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:20:05 GMT From: "secret desire" Subject: The Blue Nile Hi all I am new to the list can anyone help with the following:_ Do you know anything about this video (See below)? I run a small Blue Nile site and am not aware of it. Any confirmation help or info you can provide would be gratefully received. Mike Title of item: BLUE NILE rare promo video with Joni Mitchell Seller: george@gimarc.com Starts: Oct-19-00 18:02:13 PDT Ends: Oct-26-00 18:02:13 PDT Price: Currently $8.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll ?ViewItem&item=473848120 Item Description: THE BLUE NILE 10 minute promo video with Joni Mitchell Glasgow's Blue Nile was formed in 1981 by vocalist/guitarist/synthesist Paul Buchanan and synthesizer manipulators Robert Bell and Joseph Moore. The band's demo tape wound up at Linn Products, a hi-fi company, who used it to test new equipment. The company liked what it heard and decided to venture into the recording business, signing Blue Nile and releasing its debut album, A Walk Across the Rooftops, in 1984. The album received high praise for its melancholy, atmospheric, haunting sound, and was eventually picked up by A&M. Blue Nile was not heard from again until 1989, when they finally released a follow-up, Hats, and played their first live shows ever. [Steve Huey, All Music Guide]This is a special video that was sent out by A&M to help interest radio stations in the Blue Nile and is a performance that includes guest vocalist Joni Mitchell. It's haunting, ethereal and superb. Total run time is 10 minutes. The most important thing to realize about videos like this is the ! great expense made to produce them. Somewhere between $10,000 and $100,000 was spent on each of these videos, then promo copies like this were dubbed off and sent to MTV and various influential DJs across the nation. Clubs that showed videos and late night indie cable shows got them too. Be that as it may, IF the video didn't become a big hit, it would live a short existence as a promo item, then get tossed into the junk bin. The little film of this band would never get seen by the fans, it would never be able to be purchased by the public and worse yet, would be lost! In time, these will be the ultimate collectable. The print run is short, the image is vivid and in glorious, playable VHS and it can be all yours.CONDITION: This item is in MINT condition. It is an original promo release (not a dub!) and is from the private collection of veteran broadcaster George Gimarc who was one of the driving forces behind alternative music in Texas since 1977. Actual postage on this it! em is 3.20 PRIORITY within the US. No handling charges ever! ODD RECORDS ARE MY SPECIALTY! CHECK MY OTHER AUCTIONSThanks! PS I am not the seller so this is not an advert. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 04:15:52 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Tom Rush (NJC) Jimmy wrote: >I was looking at the photo of McCabe's Guitar > Shop in "The L.A. Musical History Tour" which is the book >that Kakki recommended, (thanks Kakki! I always use it as >a reference when you post about a wonderful music outing >you've had) and I noticed how small the place looks from the >outside. I know that Joni has played there as well as a lot of > great performers. How many people can McCabe's >accommodate? I'm so glad you got the book - it's really a lot of fun. McCabe's is very small. The front room is pretty tiny but stocked floor to ceiling with an array of various musical instruments and music books. In the back, through two hallways (also stocked floor to ceiling) there is a larger room that may have been like a small warehouse or storeroom at one time, where they have the musical performances. There are about 10-15 short rows of metal folding chairs and I'd say it fits maybe 100 people. The walls in the back are also covered with various musical instruments. They make the most of every available space in a tight area! ;-) The "decor" is vintage early 60's - I don't think a thing has changed one iota since they made it a performance area long ago. I always take a glimpse at Joni's faded photos on the wall when I am there and was thinking last night "gee, why don't we ever hear of any her bootleg recordings from McCabe's?" Surely someone or other must have snuck a tape recorder in there! Something else to track down. ;-) > Also, I bet next time you go to McCabe's, it won't be *with* >Clark. It will be to *see* Clark sing and play guitar. (yet >another musically talented JMDLer) Oh yes, I would not be surprised. While looking at their latest newsletter and schedule it appears that they *are* putting a focus on showcasing up and coming talent these days. It would be a wonderful venue for Clark! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:41:21 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: The Blue Nile Hi Mike, Welcome to the list! Ohmigod, a Blue Nile fan...such a rare thing :-) What's the URL of your Blue Nile site? I'd love to check it out. They are probably my favourite band. I have them featured on the music sections of my own general music/movie/entertainment site - The Slipstream - as they have three of my all-time top 30 albums. I'm afraid I can't help with the ebay item. I *do* recall the band collaborating with Rickie Lee Jones around 1990/91, so I wonder if this guy has got RLJ and Joni mixed up? Cheers, Jason. http://www.the-slipstream.co.uk secret desire wrote: > > I am new to the list can anyone help with the following:_ > > Do you know anything about this video (See below)? I run a small Blue Nile > site and am not aware of it. Any confirmation help or info you can provide > would be gratefully received. > > Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 04:36:15 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni, Vincent, MOA Mark wrote: >I just listened to the whole exchange & there isn't just one > overwhelming suggestion being shouted at her, there are numerous > requests coming from the audience. I don't think she's refusing to > sing a particular song just because she doesn't want to. She's giving > the audience a little something to laugh at & think about, maybe > easing a little tension and freeing herself to go on with the planned > set. Mark, you make some very good points. I was there that night (as was Steve Dulson and another listmember whom I don't recall right now). I've always remembered that particular part of the concert very clearly because it was such a great response. My recall and perception of the event was that it had been for the most part, a polite, respectful, and fairly awed audience through most of the concert. But at some point there did seem to be a break in the mood (maybe some people were just getting excited by it all, or maybe they were having a time adapting to the latest incarnation of Joni's sound, which sounded very new to me too then) and once one or two people started calling out requests, it seemed to egg on more to do so. To me at the time, this seemed to kind of break the whole mood and was kind of out of place. It's like the feeling of being engrossed in some compelling conversation with someone and another person breaks in out of left field and makes a comment that is totally off the wall and you're sort of going "huh?" I'd wager that Joni was also feeling a bit of this - sort of taken by surprise - and she had to come up with a response. She couldn't just ignore these audience members, nor could she in practical terms say "oh, O.K., I'll play that one and that one and that one since you asked." I thought her response was quick-witted, sweet and charming considering the situation. Maybe some of the people shouting out requests found it snooty, but what's a girl (or boy) to do? Maybe Steve Dulson can add his take on it. Steve, after all, was practically in the front row that night, while I was almost in the back ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:04:49 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of Joni <> Yes, but the Elvis and Janet tracks will probably make the whole thing worthwhile! And although it's already been said, it bears repeating that this is a package for the masses, so it looks a little bland to those of us who listen and think about Joni every day! Now, if you want some adventurous 'tribute' CD's, there's more than a few unconventional tracks in our "Covers" collection - go to "Joni Undercover" at JMDL.com to see for yourself... Bob NP: Steely Dan, "IGY" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:06:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni song & mention on lifetime & NYC (SJC) <> Thanks, Nikki & Brenda, for the heads up...I'll see if I can snatch a copy for Covers Volume 12! Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Josie" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:21:23 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: A Case of Joni Duncan performed at Joni's Jazz. I was not impressed. Jerry Eric Wilcox wrote: > Am I the only one that likes Duncan Sheik? > > And what is Duncan Sheik doing on anyone's tribute album? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:23:01 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, Vincent, MOA <> IMO this is SO disrespectful to the performer! While I enjoyed seeing Jackson Browne this year in a fairly intimate setting, a couple of times he responded to the audience's requests by playing the song in question, and then it was like opening the floodgates with folks yelling non-stop, like the Stock Exchange or something! He stayed in control, but it would have been a much better show if the audience would allow the artist to play as THE ARTIST is moved, rather than by the whims of the crowd... I was tempted at Joni's concert at Chastain to shout out the songs I KNEW she was going to do! "FOR THE ROSES"!! "JUDGEMENT OF THE MOON AND STARS"!! "Bring out Larry and play Hejira"!! :~D Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Home At Last" PS: If anyone out there has a copy of that Atlanta BSN show, I'm dyin' to hear it again! ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:32:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: ObituaryNJC It is with a sad heart I pass on the following: Please join me in remembering a great icon - the veteran Pillsbury spokesman. The Pillsbury Doughboy died yesterday of a yeast infection and complications from repeated pokes in the belly. He was 71. Doughboy was buried in a lightly greased coffin. Dozens of celebrities turned out to pay their respects, including Mrs. Butterworth, Hungry Jack, the California Raisins, Betty Crocker, the Hostess Twinkies, and Captain Crunch. The gravesite was piled high with flours. As long- time friend, Aunt Jemima delivered the eulogy, describing Doughboy as a man who never knew how much he was kneaded. Doughboy rose quickly in show business, but his later life was filled with turnovers. He was not considered a very "smart"cookie, wasting much of his dough on half-baked schemes. Despite being a little flaky at times, he even still, as a crusty old man, was considered a roll model for millions. Toward the end it was thought he would rise again, but alas, he was no tart. Doughboy is survived by his wife, Play Dough; two children, John Dough and Jane Dough; plus they had one in the oven. He is also survived by his elderly father, Pop Tart. The funeral was held at 3:50 for about twenty minutes. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:17:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 21 1997: That infamous US rag, the National Enquirer, slings it's mud Joni's way in today's issue, saying about the tiff with Jackson Browne "Joni was busy in the recording studio and would not comment publicly on the song. But she told a friend: 'Jackson thinks everything has to do with him. He needs to get life.' The rock heartthrob-who told an interviewer that Mitchell twice attacked him physically-called her song '100 percent wrong' and added: 'She's not really well.'" Join the slugfest at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/971021ne.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:20:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today In Joni History - October 22 1988: Joni performs a short set in San Remo, Italy. Mauro Regis writes "This was the second (and last) Joni's appearance in Italy after 1983 tour. She was prized with the Premio Tenco, and performed a solo set of about thirty minutes. She was cold and throat ill, but played an incredible set, with one of the early (or maybe the first) live performance of "Night Ride home", and a building up "Passion Play" with no words." More info: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/881022.cfm 1998: The Seattle Times reviews Taming The Tiger, saying "Just as she did in two shows with Dylan (and Van Morrison) in May at the Gorge, Mitchell shows she hasn't lost any of her fire and vision, and especially her individuality, on this stunning new disc." Read the review at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981022st.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:29:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 23 1994: Today the Calgary Herald publishes an article about Joni's recent Toronto press conference, saying "Joni Mitchell smiles as she holds up a cardboard human ear, which she's just pulled out of a copy of her new CD, Turbulent Indigo. "Isn't this great?" she says, looking as happy as a kid who has just found a swell toy in a box of Cap'n Crunch. "I wanted to put one in every copy of the album, but the record company told me it would cost too much money. So I had to settle for just a few thousand promotional copies." Read the article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/941023ch.cfm Also today, New York Newsday's "FanFare" section runs an article promoting Turbulent Indigo. Joni responds to a question about Sire of Sorrow, saying "I had a lot of grief, and much was taken from me in terms of health and money in the '80s. I was robbed by everyone who could get their hands on my money. They took some. It became fashionable in the '80s. And I had a lot of illness and a lot of bad doctors. You know, so I had that experience. I had enough experience to tackle Job." Read the article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/941023nyn.cfm 1998: Joni performs in Minneapolis on the first night of her Fall tour with Bob Dylan. Setlist and Jimdler reviews here: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/981023.cfm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:59:09 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: KennyGrantUsPeace (from JZW) Forwarded to the list at Julie Z Webb's request: >Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:05:56 -0700 (PDT) >From: Julie Webb >Subject: KennyGrantUsPeace > > In 1997 I was new to the internet and Kenny >Grant was one of my first pen pals. I saw myself as >your stereotypical Soccer mom from Pittsburgh >corresponding with anybody I could find who was >willing to talk to me about Joni Mitchell. After >awhile it became fairly apparent that my appetite for >JoniJiven was limited. For a long time Kenny and I >mostly emailed back and forth about movies...what we >had seen that weekend etc.. His email persona was >kindly...big brotherly. He was intelligent---writing >well... I liked it that he cared enough to often >encourage me to write more...especially movie reviews. > His film opinions were always interesting and >insightful. He was a nice guy and it seemed that he >was becoming my friend. > Provincial that I am/was---He was the first jmdl gay >man who would set me straight about my stereotypical >illusions of gay stereotypes. ("You're gay, >kkkKenny??? you're kkkiding."). But for me, the idea >that Kenny was a real New Yorker intrigued me most. >Pittsburgh is really a small town. If NYC possesses >the ripe crispy tartness of a full-bodied Big Apple >then Pittsburgh is more like a small soft plum--sweet >and sometimes bitter, but never better. When I >finally met him at my home in Pittsburgh, I was >expecting something like Andrew Dice Clay meets Dick >Cavett. But just like all my other silly >preconceived notions, Kenny wasn't: arrogant, pushy, >flashy, brash, competitive, >intimidating...superior-acting. > At the frenetic pace of the numerous Jonifests >I had attended, it was always at the end of my visit >that I found myself shooting the breeze with KennyG, >who with his soft-spoken stillness, seemed to be >taking it all in with his layed-back hipster kind of >calm. He was cool like people who love jazz are. I >could see it in him at my house at 2:00 AM when the >party was winding down when people were growing tired >of singing. Marian, Terry, Sherelle, Marsha, Paul >and Kenny softly lullaby-ed us with one last "Edith >and The Kingpin." It felt sad and final; like a slow >farewell song---- for me at least. I could still see >Kenny gently swaying, closing his eyes and soulfully >whispering, "are staaaarrrring eye to eye, they dare >not look away...they dare not look a >wwwway." > >God Bless, Julie Z. Webb, Still Don Juan's Fertile >Daughter, (Still Eating Lunch in my town.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:44:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Joni song & mention on lifetime & NYC (NJC) > The show airs again tomorrow evening at 11pm PST for > those who missed it. When Amy Grant joined Melissa Etheridge on stage and they began their (rather splendid) duet, my partner Mary asked me: "Did you ever think you would see THAT?" The religious "right" must've been squirming ... Women Rock! Lori, not usually a big fan of Melissa (or Amy), in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:28:00 -0500 From: mags Subject: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG Dearest Joni family, please know that this post is in no way meant to offend anyone vis a vis religious beliefs, i am just in need of sharing some thoughts which are bubbling over regarding an idea which was sparked by a conversation with Brian today. perhaps as a way to 'there', i can begin with a social setting i attended on friday night. my sister invited me to attend one of her monthly women's gatherings. She belongs to a baptist church and for her, therein lies a strong community of women who support each other through life's trials and tribulations. They gather together one night a month and share gossip, food, and song. she's invited me before, and up until now I had resisted (stubborn me). My daughter was away at her bio=dad's so this time, I gave in with a great deal of trepidation, knowing full well that I, more often than not, feel completely on the outside of things like this, meaning most of the time, I feel like i just do not "belong". What do I mean by this sense of "not belonging'? this is what i mean. i'm not good at small talk or chit chat. i dont feel i have a lot to contribute to such things. I am, believe it or not, very shy socially. So much so that it is painful to be in a crowded room full of people laughing and joking and having a good time. Not to sound morose or anything, it is just how i feel. (please bear with me here). as it turned out, i did feel as i predicted. I felt so much on the outside that at one point, i thought i would burst into tears as i asked myself what on earth i was doing there in the first place. I felt that if I left, no one would even notice. The conversations circled around me as if I was not there. I went because my sister encouraged me to give it a try so that i wouldnt feel so isolated in the new city ive just moved to and it just didnt work. The thing that really did me in was the gathering around the baby grand, singing united church of canada hymns. I thought i would spontaneously combust. i felt claustrophobic. i needed to get out NOW. so i did, i left on the tails of some lame excuse. Having arranged this possibility prior to going , my sister knew and was not upset in the least. While I have spent much of my life feeling on the outside of things, it is with a great deal of relief that I found this Joni family/community. Here, I finally feel I belong somewhere. This feeling was even more profound at Ashara's this Labour Day weekend when I realized how comfortable I was there with people, despite my past difficulties of shyness. I have spent so much of my life feeling "different" and yet, amidst this wonderful sea of joni loving souls, I dont. I cannot even begin to articulate what this means. Following in the footsteps of others of late who have proclaimed good feelings toward one another here in light of losing Kenny, (life is too precious and too short 'not' to) it is the purpose of this post to try to figure out what makes 'us' different? What is the draw to Joni? How is she different from other musicians? Why do we "get" Joni, whereas so many people don't. Why does her music speak to us personally and globally and as a group? Why is her music considered so much like a sound track for our lives? Why does Joni speak to me in ways that no other musician has before or since ? What is the glue that holds this community together? Can we be considered members of the church of Joni? tell me what brought you here in the first place and what keeps you coming back? Mags and Brian (signing his name here since this was his idea in the first place). np: Marcie - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:53:22 EDT From: JoniMessages@aol.com Subject: Joni's BD Card: Thanks artists, calling all writers Thanks to everyone who sent artwork in! Every picture got votes, but there were two that were out in front, and they were separated by just ONE vote... so I decided to use both of 'em, one on the front of the card and one on the inside. Congratulations to Sue Cooper and Rose Joy! Ever notice that most greeting cards are only in black and white on the inside? There's a reason for that -- it's a lot easier to reproduce. I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to do this, but hey, that never stopped me before. So anyway, on to Part Two. What's this card going to say? I've posted a rough draft of what the card's going to look like at the same URL as before (http://www.JoniMitchell.com/BDCard/BDcardArt.html) so you can see where the type is going to go; if you have a Fabulous Idea for one or two perfectly phrased lines (that's what there's going to be room for) send them to me at JoniMessages@aol.com. I'll post everything I receive by this Thursday (10-23), at which time I'll also let you know which line received the most votes, and who wrote it. Hope you're all having as much fun with this as I am! jj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:04:22 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: Friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG I come for conversations:-) Seriously though the depth and emotion in the conversations among us, especially in person is amazing. Also I think most people who gathered are not concerned with the superficial, and either is Joni. While we may have many other differences sometimes a common bond or interest is enough to transcend all of those differences if it is strong...and I believe it is here. Don't ask where I am going with this I just felt like I wanted to comment and sympathize in your shyness. I am almost always one to observe, and understand what that feels like. Although I have my 'moments'...lol. Love Nikki (who still owes you a letter) np: Sheryl Crow & Stevie Nicks "The Difficult Kind" 9-23-00 in AZ "Dream on but don't imagine they'll all come true...Vienna waits for you" ~ Billy Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mags > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:28 PM > To: joni@smoe.org; Brian Gross > Subject: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG > > > Dearest Joni family, > > please know that this post is in no way meant to > offend anyone vis a vis religious beliefs, i am just > in need of sharing some thoughts which are bubbling > over regarding an idea which was sparked by a > conversation with Brian today. > > perhaps as a way to 'there', i can begin with a > social setting i attended on friday night. my sister > invited me to attend one of her monthly women's > gatherings. She belongs to a baptist church and for > her, therein lies a strong community of women who > support each other through life's trials and > tribulations. They gather together one night a month > and share gossip, food, and song. > > she's invited me before, and up until now I had > resisted (stubborn me). My daughter was away at her > bio=dad's so this time, I gave in with a great deal of > trepidation, knowing full well that I, more often than > not, feel completely on the outside of things like > this, meaning most of the time, I feel like i just do > not "belong". > > What do I mean by this sense of "not belonging'? this > is what i mean. i'm not good at small talk or chit > chat. i dont feel i have a lot to contribute to such > things. I am, believe it or not, very shy socially. So > much so that it is painful to be in a crowded room > full of people laughing and joking and having a good > time. Not to sound morose or anything, it is just how > i feel. (please bear with me here). > > as it turned out, i did feel as i predicted. I felt so > much on the outside that at one point, i thought i > would burst into tears as i asked myself what on earth > i was doing there in the first place. I felt that if I > left, no one would even notice. The conversations > circled around me as if I was not there. > > I went because my sister encouraged me to give it a > try so that i wouldnt feel so isolated in the new city > ive just moved to and it just didnt work. The thing > that really did me in was the gathering around the > baby grand, singing united church of canada hymns. I > thought i would spontaneously combust. i felt > claustrophobic. i needed to get out NOW. so i did, i > left on the tails of some lame excuse. Having arranged > this possibility prior to going , my sister knew and > was not upset in the least. > > While I have spent much of my life feeling on the > outside of things, it is with a great deal of relief > that I found this Joni family/community. Here, I > finally feel I belong somewhere. This feeling was even > more profound at Ashara's this Labour Day weekend when > I realized how comfortable I was there with people, > despite my past difficulties of shyness. > > I have spent so much of my life feeling "different" > and yet, amidst this wonderful sea of joni loving > souls, I dont. I cannot even begin to articulate what > this means. > > Following in the footsteps of others of late who have > proclaimed good feelings toward one another here in > light of losing Kenny, (life is too precious and too > short 'not' to) it is the purpose of this post to try > to figure out what makes 'us' different? What is the > draw to Joni? How is she different from other > musicians? Why do we "get" Joni, whereas so many > people don't. Why does her music speak to us > personally and globally and as a group? Why is her > music considered so much like a sound track for our > lives? Why does Joni speak to me in ways that no other > musician has before or since ? What is the glue that > holds this community together? Can we be considered > members of the church of Joni? > > tell me what brought you here in the first place and > what keeps you coming back? > > Mags and Brian (signing his name here since this was > his idea in the first place). > > np: Marcie > -- > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ > ----------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:03:21 EDT From: JoniMessages@aol.com Subject: Birthday Card PS Ooops, forgot to tell you -- If you're sending in ideas for a message to be printed on the card, be sure to tell me what's supposed to be on the front of the card and what's supposed to be inside!!! jj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:09:16 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni, Vincent, MOA Bob wrote: > IMO this is SO disrespectful to the performer! While I >enjoyed seeing Jackson Browne this year in a fairly intimate >setting, a couple of times he responded to the audience's >requests by playing the song in question, and then it was > like opening the floodgates with folks yelling non-stop, like >the Stock Exchange or something! That's pretty amazing and, I must say, generous of JB to comply with the requests. But, as you pointed out, it can get out of hand and the tail can start wagging the dog at some point! ;-) I had another thought about Joni's situation at the MOA concert. In some performance situations, such as with one person with a guitar in a bar, small club or casual setting, it is very acceptable and sometimes customary for the audience to request a favorite song. It gives a more intimate connection, like a gathering around the campfire or old fashioned "Hootenany". But the MOA setting was so different from that. Joni was all dressed up and glamourous and it had a very sophisticated feel. This was not Joni the folkie, but more Joni the jazz chanteuse, even though she did play some songs from the folkie days. Not to gang up on Fred (really Fred!) but I had this thought of Fred playing with his jazz band in a stylish sophisticated setting and wondering how he would respond if several people in the audience started disrupting the planned set yelling out requests. Fred, you may have had a better comeback or analogy, but as far as the way Joni diverted the attention, I think she was successful for coming up with something clever on short notice. At least it had more style than the Cat Stevens concert I saw in '72 where he got up and started yelling "F*** off" and thrusting out his middle finger under similar circumstances. ;-D > I was tempted at Joni's concert at Chastain to shout out the songs I KNEW she was going to do! > > "FOR THE ROSES"!! > > "JUDGEMENT OF THE MOON AND STARS"!! > > "Bring out Larry and play Hejira"!! :~D Speaking of clever, that is priceless, Bob! I think some of us should try that next time a tour rolls around. LOL Kakki NP: Joni live - Mr. Tambourine Man ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:13:59 +0100 (GMT+01:00) From: quiff@earthling.co.uk Subject: Your Case of Joni [was A Case of Joni] - --11572096.972335639415.JavaMail.nobody@www-a24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I must say, I've been looking forward to this album for a long time - if only for kd lang's version of 'Help Me' which I imagine is gorgeous. I was worried the whole thing'd been shelved for a while, but I'm glad to hear it's still on the way. But with all this talk of quibbles, I wonder what and whom other people would've liked on the album (even completely unlikely folk). How's that for a thread? About ten - if we're assuming at least four of the tracks on ACoJ will be exactly what you want... Here's my starter for ten: 1:Morrissey - The Hissing of Summer Lawns 2:Tori Amos - The Priest 3:David Sylvian - Blue 4:Nina Simone - Carey 5:Fiona Apple - A Case of You 6:Ringo Starr - The Circle Game 7:Suzanne Vega - Edith & The Kingpin 8:Ben Folds Five - Car On The Hill 9:Kirsty MacColl - Blue Motel Room 10:The Kings Singers - In France They Kiss On Main Street Everyone else ...? - -Nick "This will require a special blend of psychology and extreme violence"-The Young Ones Your email address says a lot about you. Express yourself @ another.com http://another.com/jump.jsp?destDesc=another.com/login.jsp?sig=393 - --11572096.972335639415.JavaMail.nobody@www-a24-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:21:50 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Boy George, redux I read in the Sunday paper that Boy George was the high bidder for a piano that belonged to John Lennon. (I don't remember if it was the white one that he wrote "Imagine" on - it's hard to believe that Yoko would sell THAT one!) Anyway, he plans to write something with it and then donate it to a John Lennon museum in Liverpool. (2.1 million American dollars) All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:24:17 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Boy George, redux It was a different fag named George. George Michael, to be exact. Those British queens all look alike... ;-) - --Michael NP: Prince, _Controversy_ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place But then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace." - --Common, "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > I read in the Sunday paper that Boy George was the high bidder for a piano > that belonged to John Lennon. (I don't remember if it was the white one > that he wrote "Imagine" on - it's hard to believe that Yoko would sell THAT > one!) Anyway, he plans to write something with it and then donate it to a > John Lennon museum in Liverpool. (2.1 million American dollars) > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:06:35 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Your Case of Joni [was A Case of Joni] > 3:David Sylvian - Blue I can totally hear David Sylvian singing "Blue"....one of my favorite artists besides Joni. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:23:43 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Joni's quote from MOA ...nobody ever said to Van Gogh, Paint a Starry Night again, man. He painted it, that was it!" There has been a lot of discussion about this, but my favorite quote from MOA is when she says, "Thanks for your presence... and being here." (I know in a hippie kind of way it sort of makes sense, but I still think it's funny.) My sister and I always say, "Thanks for your 'presents' and being here, " (after family birthdays or Christmases) in honor of Joni. :>) Kerry NP - Patti Smith - Gung Ho ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:23:13 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG Mags wrote: << What is the glue that holds this community together? >> I'm sure there's a more profound answer Mags, but I think that in general people who enjoy Joni's music, lyrics, and art are made up of a sensitive kind. No one judges others on what race, religion, sexual preference, financial status, age, etc...... IMO Not many churches can honestly attest to that. Sure the JMDL has a few sour grapes now and then, but I have found this *family* to be a warm and loving group. There's not any members that are downright hateful, and that's a rare commodity in this world. Joni may not know it, but she makes wonderful glue! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:18:47 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Your Case of Joni [was A Case of Joni] Victor Johnson wrote: > > > 3:David Sylvian - Blue > > I can totally hear David Sylvian singing "Blue"....one of my favorite > artists besides Joni. A terribly underrated artist. To be honest, I'd be happy hearing him sing *anything*.....especially Joni! Victor, check out his latest 2-CD retrospective "Everything & Nothing", just out here in the UK (not sure about worldwide). Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:23:57 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, Vincent, MOA-njc In a message dated 10/23/00 4:40:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << but as far as the way Joni diverted the attention, I think she was successful for coming up with something clever on short notice. >> on the dave matthews and tim renyolds cd live from luther college, you can hear a lot of calling out for songs. it's a very intimate setting and even a whisper can carry. one time, someone calls out for a song which they are going to play and he says....yea yea...we're gonna do that one..just hang on. another time, at the end, in the beginning of his closing song, someone calls out for a song and he says...yea, i need to relearn that one...but now i'm nervous and i'd mess it up...and the goes into the closer. i remember a few years ago a similar thread ran and fred spoke then and it was about james taylor...doing the same songs over and over. and the point was that each performance was a real time event that fulfilled the purpose of song. the only thing i think about with crowds yelling is that so often, individuals want to recreate an experience for themselves. a particular song that brings a good memory..and they want to hear it. they just want to hear it. and it's not where the performer is going. i think fred's point is well taken,,,songs are meant to repeat. but at the same time, where does an audience cross the line. i don't know. it's not simple. i had it happen in a setting a few weeks ago. we had prepared certain music to fill some time slots and they wanted more and we ended up stealing from future time slots to fill in the demand. then in the break, we regrouped and planned out some more music. and that time it was good because we were encouraging the people with the music and it worked. but in a different setting, it could have made us pissed. my sense with joni on miles of aisles is that she is more just recognizying the tension of performing to peoples expectations. i get the sense she is saying something, but not with a lot of frustration. more like tongue in cheek..yea yea...i know...y'all want something redone....but i'm about new stuff...oh well...let's go with it and try to keep us all happy... that's more the sense i get from the recording, but it's cool that we have people who saw the performance and can comment on it. that's very cool. patrick np. j. brooke - live song #4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:10:56 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's quote from MOA-njc In a message dated 10/23/00 7:33:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: << "Thanks for your presence... and being here." (I know in a hippie kind of way it sort of makes sense, but I still think it's funny.) My sister and I always say, "Thanks for your 'presents' and being here, " (after family birthdays or Christmases) in honor of Joni. :>) Kerry NP - Patti Smith - Gung Ho >> first, what a very cool album in patti smith's gung ho. rock and roll. then, on one of pearl jam's live cd's from europe which were released to fend off bootlegs, eddie makes a very nice statement...."to all those who have spent money on our recordings and to be with us here tonight, we know that it is hard to come by, and we thank you very much for supporting us and making our playing possible." i thought that was pretty good for eddie veder. patrick np. kids arguing over which is better...goldfish or pretzels or fruit roll ups. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:13:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's quote from MOA In a message dated 10/23/00 7:28:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: << There has been a lot of discussion about this, but my favorite quote from MOA is when she says, "Thanks for your presence... and being here." (I know in a hippie kind of way it sort of makes sense, but I still think it's funny.) My sister and I always say, "Thanks for your 'presents' and being here, " (after family birthdays or Christmases) in honor of Joni. :>) >> How do you know she mean "presence"? I am sure people were putting things like flowers and such on the stage fher. I have always thought she meant "presents," just like you and your sister do at Christmas. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:14:31 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: friday night & the church of joni NJC and LONG Can't answer your question. I don't know. i often wonder what keeps me here. Have made some good email friends off list. The list itself is like well I won't call it a family, tho I guess 'fa,mily of choice ' is okay, I just don't know. I have been here 3 years, just over. Have changed a great deal in that time. have learned a great deal in that time-about myself and others. I used to think I was crazy till I met this bunch. Take that how you will. Even in those times I am occupied elsewhere and I just skim and don't write much, I find myself wondering what is going on with people. not just on the list. I wonder what Kakki is doing, or Patrick, or Jimmy, or Les or MG or Joy or...so many. I imagine how they live, what ther homes are like etc. And I am pretty sure I know more about all of you just from the writing than i ever would if I met you all in a live group. You certainly know far, far, far more about me than you ever would have if you had only met me for real. Email is just so easy to espress yourself in. Too easy I guess. For me it is just a blank screen I write to. Almosyt like all of you don't exist cept for in my pc! For all I know you all could be anybody and nobody. Could be one person. Could be 12. Could be just my imagination. There is far more pleasure to be had and empathy than there is the negative stuff. Like you, Mags, I feel part of it. Not something I have felt before. I don't think that would translate to a physical group of us tho. Although I did experience that feeling of belonging at the UKfest-but I had to leave early as it was all too much. Exhausting. Mind you it was the 3rd night I left early. I am not used to that much partying. I still can't really put my finger on what it is that keeps me here. I just can't imagine not being. It has been a constant in my life for over 3 years. And apart from John who has been a constant for almost 20 years, nothing else has ever lasted this long. So after a lot of rambling I get to my answer. That is why I stick here. It is a constant for me. A sense of permannce, security even. See my rambling does have a point to it. I am trying to figure it out and if I think/write long enough I get to the answer! I've been on this list longere than I spent anywhere in my childhood-much longer. bw colin ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #560 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?