From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #542 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Thursday, October 12 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 542 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- pin me ["Kate Bennett" ] music downloads [catman ] MG NJC [catman ] Re: Fwd: Joni Set Lists [Steven Barton ] Re: Blue ["Hell" ] Re: pin me NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: my wanderings NJC ["Hell" ] Re: my wanderings NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Pin Me Up & Benefits [MGVal@aol.com] Re: pin me [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Fwd: Joni Set Lists [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] pin me up, too! NJC [Emily Kirk Gray ] Pin on the map NJC ["kerry" ] Re: Pin on the map NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Pin on the map NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re:Our Lady of Angels/Alvernia (NJC) ["Susan" ] RE: Pin me up njc [BarBearUh ] Blue [Steve Dulson ] Foreign Films (NJC) [leslie@torchsongs.com] RE: Conversation ["Susan" ] Re: Blue [Don Rowe ] Re: pin me down, dean french njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: pin me down, dean french njc [Don Rowe ] Re: my wanderings NJC [dsk ] RE: pin me down, dean french njc ["Eric Wilcox" ] Re: pin me down, dean french njc [susan+rick ] montreal njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] new york NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Foreign Films (NJC) [Don Rowe ] MTV and Popizing Joni ["william" ] The Top Prize ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: MTV and Popizing Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: The Top Prize ["Eric Wilcox" ] Re: Our Lady of Angels/Alvernia (NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: The Top Prize [Jerry Notaro ] Re: MTV and Popizing Joni [Don Rowe ] Joni's Visual Work ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: The Top Prize ~~ Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: The Top Prize [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] Re: The Top Prize [Scott Price ] Re: The Top Prize [Don Rowe ] Apples and Cheeses (NJC) ["c Karma" ] Re: The Top Prize [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: Oxymoron: NOT!!! (NJC: long) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: Fwd: Re: to be a pin on some map, my vicarious thrill [Susan McNamara] RE: Conversation [Scott Price ] Fwd: Re: "I went looking for a cause..." [Susan McNamara Subject: pin me I was born a Jersey girl (Chatham, near Morristown) & now I live in Santa Barbara, CA where I have lived for a very long time. I plan to live here for the rest of my life! However, I would like to visit the spot on the Jersey shore where I used to spend my summers (Bay Head). Rose promised me some manicotti if I do. ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:16:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: music downloads looks like music downloads, those you pay for, are becoming a reality. You can download Carlys whol album, The Bedroom Tapes, for $14.98. I'd still want the real cd! - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:24:36 +0100 From: catman Subject: MG NJC Toady I received a surrpise package from my Joni friend MG. I am sure most of you know this, but my MG is such a lovely thougthful person. I had no idea this package was coming and was tearfully surpised at it's content. I was so touched that MG would be so thoughtful and kind.What a lady. - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:42:00 -0700 From: Steven Barton Subject: Re: Fwd: Joni Set Lists > Wasn't this a tape tree? #3 maybe? I also have copies of this, but > on dirty cassettes. sue Has there been any effort to master the JMDL cassette trees to CD-R, since there is currently such a shift in that direction? Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:12:31 +1300 From: "Hell" Subject: Re: Blue Kakki wrote: > I would have never guessed it was about Graham, either - and also think that > on the surface it seems more to fit James Taylor or Crosby. But thinking > about it, it does make sense to me now and also confirms a few intutions > I've had, but which I hesitate to say on the list because I'm weary of the > offlist flames I've been getting for daring to discuss Joni's lyrics as if > she is a real person. Let me get this straight? Someone is flaming you for discussing the lyrics of a Joni Mitchell song, on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List? Does that strike anyone else as being ridiculous!? Don't take any notice Kakki - personally I always love your posts! And I love the discussion on this song - it's one of my favourites, and although it's always been said that it was about David Blue, the lyrics always seemed to me, to be too intimate and personal. I think Graham Nash fits the bill perfectly. Of course the only one who REALLY knows is Joni, and she doesn't appear to be here - unless of course she's the one doing the flaming! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:54:57 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: pin me NJC In a message dated 10/12/00 12:18:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: << However, I would like to visit the spot on the Jersey shore where I used to spend my summers (Bay Head). Rose promised me some manicotti if I do. >> Ohh! Count me in and I'll bring the Taylor's Ham if we can get a group going. My childhood summers were spent at the Jersey shore and it's what I remember the best. MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:56:08 +1300 From: "Hell" Subject: Re: my wanderings NJC Debra wrote: > > It's very interesting finding out where people are, > > and where they started from (geographically anyway). > > I'm wondering how people ended up living where they > > do now? I sent a really quick message about where I live the other day, but I agree with everyone else, this is a great thread, so I thought I'd provide some more details. A lot more details. Feel free to delete now - I'm in ramble-mode, and this could turn into a thesis! I was born in Whangarei, NZ - the main city in Northland, and attended school there until the age of 17. Not a very happy time for me on the whole, and I was pretty glad to leave. I left for University in Hamilton (the middle of the North Island). I spent four years there getting a degree in Ecology and Botany (and whatever other subjects I could pick up of interest - Human Development, Environmental Ethics, Sociology - there's even some Calculus and Analytical Chemistry in there as well)! I spent three years in a hostel, which I loved, then my final year flatting with friends - a cool house right next to the pub! My B.Sc. should have taken three-years, but my father died in July of my final year (10 days before my 20th birthday), and I basically came apart at exam time - and took an extra year to finish the last few papers I needed, although in retrospect it was a good thing, because I did a lot of thinking about my direction. I then moved to Wellington (our capital) to find work. I had no idea what - I had considered a further degree in Landscape Architecture, but they generally prefer people with work experience in a related field. I thought vaguely about the Department of Conservation, and the Ministry for Agriculture and Fisheries. I even interviewed for a job surveying fishing boats - going to sea for weeks at a time. I ended up with a temporary job for three months at the Dept. of Conservation, which extended to 6 months, then they decided I was indispensable (HA!). I started out doing routine filing and boring desk stuff in the Science and Research Division. Once my job was made permanent, I ended up managing the NZ Wetlands Database, and compiling directories of conservation-related research in NZ. I got so fed up waiting for the programmer to fix all the bugs in the software, that I decided to have a go myself. I quite liked it, so taught myself the basics. That sort of snowballed into a permanent Programmers role, and I was then trained in Oracle Designer/Developer. I still had a few interesting diversions though. One memorable (smelly) day was spent crawling into caves on an island (Somes) in the middle of Wellington Harbour to retrieve penguin chicks so they could be banded (small plastic bands around their legs to track migration). About 6 years ago, I was getting really bored with the life I'd made for myself, and government departments do NOT pay well - I was also getting very nervous about earthquakes. Wellington has had some scary ones over the years, and is apparently about 50 years overdue for "the big one". So I decided a change of scenery would be good, and had to decide where to move to. I thought about Napier (a city I really love), or back to Hamilton, but decided against Hamilton - most of my friends from University had "settled" there, ie. all married with 2.4 kids and a mortgage, and I didn't know anyone in Napier. A few friends had ended up in Auckland, and were loving the lifestyle, and my sister and family were possibly headed that way too. And the rest of the family were still in Whangarei (only 2 hours drive away). So I applied for a job with the Auckland Regional Council (ARC), got it, and packed up the car. The cat and I drove up, settled, and have lived in 6 different houses in Auckland, although I'm hoping this one (which I love) will be for a while. Eventually I guess I'll make my mother happy and buy a house, but I don't want to do it alone. Mind you, my choice of partner (when/if I find one) probably won't make her very happy either, but that's a whole other story! My life is no more interesting than it was 6 years ago, but I'm a lot happier. I've made some fairly big decisions over the past few years, and done some pretty cool things since I've been here - two trips to the US for a start (one to Maui - the best holiday ever - and one to LA). My job is evolving (I'm moving into web development) which is cool, and the ARC is a good place to work for. They also gave me a PC to use at home (where I do a fair bit of work because it's a lot quieter) and a modem. And so I discovered the JMDL! I have no idea what the future holds - I'm not making any long-term plans, because that invariably (in my case) leads to disappointment, just taking each day as it comes. One thing I know - I will be attending a Jonifest at some stage! And if you read this far, you must be very bored! Hell NP: Indigo Girls - Come On Now Social (over and over and over - I LOVE this CD)! P.S. I've revamped the NBLs website (below). Please feel free to take a look and let me know what you think! ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:14:27 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: my wanderings NJC In a message dated 10/12/00 3:08:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << And if you read this far, you must be very bored! >> No, not bored! For me at least, it's always fascinating to read about the twists and turns of where people have gone and where they are going. Thanks for sharing, MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:45:40 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Pin Me Up & Benefits In a message dated 10/11/00 10:33:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, leslie@torchsongs.com writes: << I believe Joni has also supported the animal rights movement - wasn't her "Wolves" artwork used for a poster several years back? >> Yep. This is absolutely right. At the first JoniFest, old time list member Bill Dollinger brought copies of this poster for giveaways. The artwork was from her Dog Eat Taylor's Ham album and had the quote: "coyotes respect humans, why can't humans respect coyotes" or "coyotes will eat your Taylor's ham, so hurry up and eat it first." I can't remember which. MG - wondering if it's too early for breakfast..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:39:58 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: pin me In a message dated 10/12/00 3:18:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: << However, I would like to visit the spot on the Jersey shore where I used to spend my summers (Bay Head). Rose promised me some manicotti if I do. ******************************************** >> Absolutely Kate, you got it... just let me know when you're gonna visit and have some "real" Italian home cooking. My grandma Assunta taught me how. (Di Napoli) Rosalita in NJ NP in her head: Mandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:38:32 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Joni Set Lists <> Not formally, Steven, but I'm about 90% of the way there... Bob NP: Patti Smith, "death singing" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:41:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: pin me up, too! NJC good thread. born in brooklyn, NYC--raised in bronxville, NY (suburb of NYC--after a couple of post-college years of manhattan rents (THE joke of the century)--i'm right back where i belong, in brooklyn town. and loving it! - --emily (you can take the girl out of the city--for a summer-- but you can't take the city outta the girl!) happy thursday, everyone! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:55:21 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Pin on the map NJC You can stick a pin for me in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. My story is not as exciting as others seem to be - I grew up in a suburb of Milwaukee, went to college 3 hours away and couldn't wait to get out of this state. I got a job at a dude ranch in Colorado in the heart of the Rockies and guess what? It was a truly gorgeous setting, but I just didn't connect with the people I worked with and I missed my girlfriend back home. (You know, that first love thing :>) Soooo.....I came back and I'm still here! I guess I learned that home's the best place to be after all. (Insert violin music here.) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:21:46 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pin on the map NJC Here's my track record: Born in Detroit, MI Moved to Flint, MI when I was about 2 Moved to Grand Rapids, MI at 3 Moved to Kwajelein in the Marshall Islands when I was 4 Moved to Roswell, NM when I was 6 Moved to Dearborn Heights, MI when I was 8 Moved to Livonia, MI when I was 9 Moved to Raleigh, NC when I was 11 Yes, my Dad was David Janssen, aka The Fugitive! :~) Needless to say, I was the perpetual "new kid" in school, so I was always an outcast who talked funny and had to sit in the nastiest desk next to the girl with cooties. The good part was that the "cooties" girls were always the coolest ones! I moved to Greenville, SC when I graduated from NC State University, and here I am, and happy to stay put! No "Urge For Going" for me! :~) Bob NP: The Smithereens, "Indigo Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:05:35 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Pin on the map NJC I already emailed Dean off-list for my place on the map, but since everyone is tracing their roots, here's my brief history. Born in Jacksonville, Florida (city of Paul I.) Stolen by gypsies at age 1 and moved to Tampa, FL Swam down to Ft. Myers, FL at age 3 (two weeks prior to hurricane Donna wiping out most of the city) and grew up here. Went to 4 years of college at the University of Florida in Gainesville (GO GATORS!!!) Back home to mooch off of Mom & Dad in Ft. Myers, FL and never left. I'm a true Florida cracker! Have a great day! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:09:41 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: Re:Our Lady of Angels/Alvernia (NJC) Rev Vince wrote: In 1968 and 1969, my buds and I dated the entire Alvernia classes of 69 and 70. Sorry I can't say the same! Actually when I run into classmates in the past years, we find many of us are of the same persuasions and would have liked to have been in your shoes! We still say that' why they shut the school down. HAHAHA! I graduated in 75 so I was a bit behind your "Alvernia Dating Frenzy." Sorry for those JMDLers, and please excuse Vince and I for indulging in a bit of Chicago nostalgia. Vince also wrote: Our Lady of the Angels is a major event in the life of every person who was a grammar school student in Chicago in 1958, with the Our Lady of Angels fire of 1 December 1958, when 93 kids and 3 nuns burned to death. Susan, were you there when the fire happened? I was not even 2 years old, but I do have a very faint short memory of the event as it only began to take place. My brother Tony was at the back window pointing and saying "Smoke Mommy Smoke." That's all I remember sitting on the kitchen floor and the fear that exuding from my mother. See I used to have a great memory, but years of abuse ... oh well. I lost a cousin in the fire, with a couple others who were there but completely unharmed. I also remember a little girl from down the street, Helen also perished in the blaze. Vine you are so right about authority! Many died because the nuns told children to bow their heads and pray till they were rescued! I remember them rebuilding the school, you couldn't burn that baby down if it was in the middle of the Great Chicago Fire! And man oh man, you had better take fire drills seriously or you might get burned at the stake! I saw more kids get whacked by nuns in fire drills than, than 10 St. Valentine's Day Massacres put together. OLA was located on Iowa (Thomas is very close) between Hamlin and Avers. Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:14:00 -0400 From: BarBearUh Subject: RE: Pin me up njc born in NY, NY where i lived for 3 months until i was adopted and grew up on long island (NY), 3 years in one house in Huntington, 14 years in another. went to school in boston for 2 years, lived in warren towers and in an apartment in allston went to school in NYC for 2 years, lived in tribeca moved home for 2 years until i couldn't stand it. a heartbreaking split with a boyfriend was the final push to northern virginia where i lived with a friend's family and became a foster parent of 2 children for 2 years. when they moved back with their mother, i moved to the mount pleasant neighborhood of DC to a cheap but nice basement apartment where i had no stove. i lived there for 5 years, which was a long enough time paying low rent to save up a down payment for a house 8 blocks away in the same neigborhood. still pine for NYC, but have a house with a yard near the park with a dog and a parking space (1 bedroom closet not near park is about what i could afford in NYC)... barbara np: jane siberry, hush ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:51:48 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Blue >>I also hear it in way she sings "I Love You" in Blue. >Makes this song much more poignant to me now, hearing it is about Graham. Kakki, unless I hear it from the mouth of Siquomb herself, you (or Kate!) will never convince me that the song was not inspired directly by her relationship with David Blue. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.... :) - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:13:02 GMT From: leslie@torchsongs.com Subject: Foreign Films (NJC) Some foreign films I recommend: Indochine Ju Dou The King of Masks The Color of Paradise Leslie M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:31:12 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: RE: Conversation > Wally wrote:yeah, where did i read that conversation IS about stephen stills? why > would stephen stills constantly bring joni mitchell apples and cheeses, though? > I have seen several posts in the past that have mentioned this. I should add that since I bought LOTC, soon after I bought Blue, I have always felt it was about Stephen Stills. The people I knew back then that were Joni fans also seemed to have information that "Conversation" was about Judy Collins/Stephen Stills. You wonder how these things get started and stick! I also think the line you refer to (apples & cheeses) may not need to be taken so literal, it is a convenient rhyme. Also I would guess Joni may have included a a bottle of German wine (with the apples & cheeses) as well, making all the more sense, but unable to work it into this piece! Peace Susan P.S. Hi Jody, more on the Fred Simon Show later! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:46:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Blue - --- Hell wrote: > Kakki wrote: > > > I would have never guessed it was about Graham, > either - and also think > that > > on the surface it seems more to fit James Taylor > or Crosby. But thinking > > about it, it does make sense to me now and also > confirms a few intutions > > I've had, but which I hesitate to say on the list > because I'm weary of the > > offlist flames I've been getting for daring to > discuss Joni's lyrics as if > > she is a real person. I'm going to jump in on this one. Whoever's flaming Kakki ... KNOCK IT OFF! Flame me instead, if you must, but do so at your peril, I assure you I can give out twice as hot as I get. On the issue of "Blue", I'll take the cheap writer's compromise. Since the song seems to fit any number of Joni's "d'affairs du coeur", I think it quite possible - -- and likely even -- that the song is, in fact, a whole greater than the sum of it's parts. And therein lies it's power ... that Joni's drawn from her most powerful feelings from a number of affairs, and woven them together into this timeless fabric. Now that may not be as satisfying as saying, "Blue's about _________", but I agree with Kakki that Joni's a flesh and blood human being. A god awfully creative and brilliant human being -- and as such -- certainly capable of synthesizing her emotions from different times, places and people, into an incredible organic single song. Don Rowe ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:55:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: pin me down, dean french njc Born Montreal, QC, Canada. Raised Pembroke, ON, Canada and Mississauga, ON Canada (just west of Toronto). Also lived a year in Quebec, QC, Canada. Now living in Toronto. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:04:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: pin me down, dean french njc Born and raised Dallas, TX. Currently hanging my Stetson in St. Louis, MO. Don Rowe n.p. "All My Exes Live in Texas" in my head! ;-) ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:23:32 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: my wanderings NJC MG, I had the very same thoughts. It's fascinating to me too, reading about the decision-making people go through, and how one decision (sometimes something very small) can have a life-changing effect. Thank you to everyone who's sharing this part of your story. Debra Shea MGVal@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/12/00 3:08:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz > writes: > > << And if you read this far, you must be very bored! >> > > No, not bored! For me at least, it's always fascinating to read about the > twists and turns of where people have gone and where they are going. > > Thanks for sharing, > > MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:34:48 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: pin me down, dean french njc I'm currently based in Madison, WI. Though I was born in Racine, Wisconsin. I like cheese. eric - --- eric wilcox edwilcox@students.wisc.edu "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious." -Oscar Wilde - --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:52:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Pin Me Up & Benefits mary grace!!!!!! you're making me so hungry! now it's imperative that i try some of that sinful meat you've been so shamelessly advertising! expect me next saturday for brunch. wallyk, a ham man >"coyotes will eat your Taylor's ham, so hurry up and eat it > first." I can't remember which. > > MG - wondering if it's too early for breakfast..... > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:51:28 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: pin me down, dean french njc Spent the first 21 years of my life in Welland, Ontario, Canada (90 minutes from Toronto) a small industrial town that most of my friends couldn't wait to get out of. Travelled for a year in Europe (70-71), mostly Spain, where I too went to a party down a red dirt road but a few years too late to meet Joni. Back to Canada briefly then off to Seattle to visit the woman who was to become my first wife (we had met in Spain). Stayed there one year as an illegal alien (I loved being both illegal and an alien.) Both of us back to Welland (via the Appalachian Trail!) where we married in order for her to be able to stay in Canada (The things you do for love!) In 1974 we moved to Calgary, Alberta, which was the Canadian boomtown where everyone went to look for work. Spent six years there having two children until my wife decided to take up with a log cabin builder in the interior of British Columbia. Followed her and the kids to B.C. where I lived in a small one-room cabin in the woods for three years and did most of my growing as a person. After several years of visiting and letter writing moved to Vancouver in 1983 to eventually marry my soul mate (the susan in my return address). And that's how I came to live in Belcarra (close to, but hidden from, Vancouver) working in a beautiful park, to become this entity known only as Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:01:19 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: montreal njc are you bilingual cath? what is it like in montreal? i've never been there but i hear that the town is pretty much split in two: one block is french speaking and the next is anglo. is that true? wallyk > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Catherine McKay > Enviado el: Jueves, 12 de Octubre de 2000 12:55 p.m. > Para: french; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: pin me down, dean french njc > > > Born Montreal, QC, Canada. Raised Pembroke, ON, > Canada and Mississauga, ON Canada (just west of > Toronto). Also lived a year in Quebec, QC, Canada. > Now living in Toronto. > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:15:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: new york NJC you don't know how right you are, ric!!!!!! whenever i leave new york, i cry my eyes out of their sockets. i sound like dolly parton talking about her mountain home. anyway, i'm doing everything in my power to persuade those horrible INS people that they should let me go and live in NYC, MY town, but america doesn't seem to want me! besides i need to be relatively close to new england, which was my home in many of my past lives according to my past lives report. that also accounts for my speaking english without ever having learned the language. the fact that i never learned english is pretty evident, though, when i try to use it as a means of communication. but the story is still pretty amazing, isn't it? america, embrace your lost child!!!!!!! wallyk, upset that he will not be able to afford spending next january in new york city. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Ricw1217@aol.com > Enviado el: Miércoles, 11 de Octubre de 2000 09:04 p.m. > Para: wallykai@interserver.com.ar > CC: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: to be a pin on some map, my vicarious thrill NJC > > > In a message dated 10/10/00 9:06:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: > > << and you're so smart, maybe you're a > genius too! > be well, >> > > maybe??? oh come on wally! get with the program boy! that hole in the > ozone must be taking a toll! i think we need to get you the hell > out of the > 3rd world and up to new yawk city, skyscrapers and > everythang...that would be > my genius idea of the day. you strike me as a new york kind of guy... > > and isn't RLJ's new one too good for words? don't you just love the low > spark of high heeled boys? (i am talking about the song wally! > the song!!!) > > now be good or i will sic my vice-genius heather on you! > > peace & love, (and flowers and freedom) ric > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Foreign Films (NJC) I'll chip in with these for those who may have missed them: The Chambermaid on the Titanic Babbette's Feast Il Postino The Unbearable Lightness of Being Don Rowe ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:17:32 +0700 From: "william" Subject: MTV and Popizing Joni I don't know what the current fare of pop is elsewhere, but here in Indonesia ........... aaaaaaaaaargh we get a selection of what's happening videolly in the West. I hope it's the worst of a bad bunch. Maybe I'm getting older (of course I am, isn't everyone?). Today I watched with particular disbelief the eMTVness of the music. Even Madonna's Music left me in dismay of how shallow/forgettable it all was. Sorry, I missed the self parody/piss-take as was explained to me. But then Madonna speaks highly of my career. Joni ain't no video queen either. The bland regurgitations of old songs i.e. Five doing We Will Rock You floored me. Maybe I need another holiday, to relax, let things slide/be. I picked up my guitar as an antidote and determined to play a difficult Joni song I'd never played before. Otis and Marlena was reduced to E F# B and C#7. It's possible and sounded jolly acceptable too. I had no idea it could be so simple and in standard tuning. I started thinking of pop-py accompaniments etc. A cover version. I played it until the little green taxi arrived. I don't know if it would be a good thing to "popize" Joni, but a cover here and there wouldn't go wrong, or would it? Are any of Joni's songs better than We Will Rock You? Current flavours doing what, I think might be a tall order to the imagination. A handful of artists doing a handful of Joni songs. Who doing What? There ain't a lot there alas. Willy the Shake N about to P - Otis & Marlena - come for fun and sun PS - What does "while muslims stick up Washington" mean? I like to have a fair idea of what I'm singing about. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:49:20 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The Top Prize Clearly the race for 'best singer-songwriter' is between Bobby and Joni. Did Dylan ever write ANYTHING as good as the "Last Time I Saw Richard"? I don't think so. I know Bob was more Influential by far. I also think that sometimes the Student (Joni) surpasses the skills of the Teacher (Bob Dylan). For me, Joni is THE best. Others? All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:58:42 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: MTV and Popizing Joni <> There are some GREAT Pop covers of Joni's music...Jason Falkner's "Both Sides Now" is irresistably good, as is Pinhead Gunpowder's "Big Yellow Taxi". Lots of others, just depends on how one defines the parameters of "Pop"... <>> Yes, all of them...except Dancin' Clown! ;~) Bob NP: Smoking Popes, "On The Shoulder" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:01:33 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: The Top Prize Well, I think Joni may have the upper hand because she's got a singing voice. Some of Dylan's songs are genius-- but I always hated his voice. Joni writes amazing songs and has a darn good voice to go along with it. I'd have to concur with Jim's declaration: Joni is THE best. ;) eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:49 PM To: _JMDL - June 98 Subject: The Top Prize Clearly the race for 'best singer-songwriter' is between Bobby and Joni. Did Dylan ever write ANYTHING as good as the "Last Time I Saw Richard"? I don't think so. I know Bob was more Influential by far. I also think that sometimes the Student (Joni) surpasses the skills of the Teacher (Bob Dylan). For me, Joni is THE best. Others? All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:03:33 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Lady of Angels/Alvernia (NJC) "So I just want to get back to the states back to the hippest girls in the land I wish they all could be Alvernia Girrrrrllllssss yeah yeah yeah I wish they all could be Alvernia Girrrrrllllssss" I couldnt resist. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:09:15 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Top Prize Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Clearly the race for 'best singer-songwriter' is between Bobby and Joni. > Did Dylan ever write ANYTHING as good as the "Last Time I Saw Richard"? I > don't think so. I know Bob was more Influential by far. I also think that > sometimes the Student (Joni) surpasses the skills of the Teacher (Bob > Dylan). For me, Joni is THE best. Others? Not quite a fair comparison. Both are the best at what they do. The Last Time I Saw Richard is as intimate and emotional and involving as I Shall Be Released is universal. Both are brilliant and works of unquestioned genuis. Jerry Charlie Mingus - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat (so heartbreaking beautiful) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: MTV and Popizing Joni > Yes, all of them...except Dancin' Clown! ;~) > Sorry, but that's more correctly: "Yes, all of them ... *especially* Dancin' Clown!" ;-) Don Rowe ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:10:03 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni's Visual Work The Mendel Art Gallery in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan is still selling the poster and catalog of Joni's 'voices' show, eh? You can see the poster at http://www.mendel.saskatoon.sk.ca/shop/ You can buy on line or call them. When I called today, they had the poster in stock ($17 American including shipping - a BARGAIN!!) but the catalog is on re-order. They expect more catalogs in 4-6 weeks. They ship once per week. Mendel Art Gallery's phone: (306) 975-7616 All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu PS- I'm thinking of buying a catalog for my birthday- would someone please describe the catalog? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:17:09 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: The Top Prize ~~ Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell? Joni has shown a real facility on piano too where Bob hasn't. (For The Roses is a MUST for every Joni collection!!) And her ability with melody is superior- I'll leave that proof for everyone else. And Joni's guitar playing is just WAY more beautiful especially in the open-tuned Martin phase. (Again- For The Roses is a MUST for every Joni collection. And it sounds so beautiful on vinyl that I've never bought a copy on CD.) And she actually produces herself (mostly) and gets lots of colors that way. Bobby hires great producers- no doubt- but it's not the same thing is it? I'm open for discussion but man, in my mind, the contest is not even close! Anyway...... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:20:34 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: The Top Prize Jerry- Yah, the Universal aspect of "I Shall Be Released" is undeniable! Joni hasn't really made something suitable to close JoniFests with, for example. You know- the moment where the theatrical intuition tells you that everyone should get up and sing one song together- an anthem with many verses that brings everyone together. "I Shall Be Released" is certainly that. Great point. Lama - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Cc: "_JMDL - June 98" Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: Re: The Top Prize > > > Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > > Clearly the race for 'best singer-songwriter' is between Bobby and Joni. > > Did Dylan ever write ANYTHING as good as the "Last Time I Saw Richard"? I > > don't think so. I know Bob was more Influential by far. I also think that > > sometimes the Student (Joni) surpasses the skills of the Teacher (Bob > > Dylan). For me, Joni is THE best. Others? > > Not quite a fair comparison. Both are the best at what they do. The Last Time > I Saw Richard is as intimate and emotional and involving as I Shall Be > Released is universal. Both are brilliant and works of unquestioned genuis. > > Jerry > > Charlie Mingus - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat (so heartbreaking beautiful) > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:33:59 EDT From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: The Top Prize Lama writes: Yah, the Universal aspect of "I Shall Be Released" is undeniable! Joni hasn't really made something suitable to close JoniFests with, for example.You know- the moment where the theatrical intuition tells you that everyone should get up and sing one song together- an anthem with many verses that brings everyone together. How about The Circle Game? That should be suitable for a singalong to close a JoniFest. Overall, I don't see the point saying Dylan is better than Joni or vice-versa. They are clearly both great artists, and have made different contributions to music. - Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:44 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: The Top Prize At 02:20 PM 10/12/00 -0400, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >Joni hasn't really made something suitable to close JoniFests with, >for example. You know- the moment where the theatrical intuition >tells you that everyone should get up and sing one song together- >an anthem with many verses that brings everyone together. For me, "Woodstock" fills this bill. Joni has used it many times to close out various live performances. It's uplifting yet is usually done in a haunting tone. She did spice it up with a band a few times but the versions I like best are solo Joni and guitar or Joni and piano. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:49:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: The Top Prize To quote from "Barfly" -- "Ah, the eternal question. The eternal answer ... I dunno!" Okay, so with the exception of CG, Joni's not exactly your sing-along songwriter. Maybe a cool cover of "Big Rock Candy Mountain" in DADGAD, with some polite drumming, Klein Jaco impersonation, pedal steel and muted trumpet might get us there ... I'm being silly. Here's why Joni gets my vote over Dylan, as I'm being forced into a comparison. With the Dylan catalog, there's a lot of 'filler' you have to put up with catch the gems. In Joni's catalog, there's a density of gems you have to get through to even spot the 'filler.' Don Rowe ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:06:09 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: Apples and Cheeses (NJC) Apples and cheese are ingredients for fondue, too! CC "I'm a pretty good cook, I'm sittin' on my grocery." -- JM _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:07:29 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: The Top Prize In a message dated 10/12/00 2:59:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << Here's why Joni gets my vote over Dylan, as I'm being forced into a comparison. With the Dylan catalog, there's a lot of 'filler' you have to put up with catch the gems. In Joni's catalog, there's a density of gems you have to get through to even spot the 'filler.' Don Rowe >> Gee, what a surprise. Members of the Joni Mitchell Discussion List Declaring they like Joni's music better than Dylan's and anyone else's. Talk about preaching to the choir. What's the point? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:19:05 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Oxymoron: NOT!!! (NJC: long) Well, since I guess I started this, I'll weigh in again. "I talk too loose / Again I talk too open and free". . . But then, I guess I'm in good company. ;-) Susan wrote: "[I was] surprised to see a thread in reference to one of my off-hand remarks!" Actually, some of the best threads around here get started in response to off-hand remarks! She also wrote: "I feel the very same way about my high school, however, my elementary school was the other side of the coin. I really was just sharing a light hearted memory. But I just can't keep my mouth shut! My Catholic elementary school was much different, it was racist, sexist, hypocritical and mean spirited. " In all seriousness now: Susan, I can't tell you how grieved I am that you endured this experience in elementary school, especially now knowing what Vince has shared with the list about the history of this particular school. I am glad you had the countervailing experience of Alvernia High School later on, which sounds like it showed you--as my Catholic high school showed me--the life-altering example of strong, committed, loving women affiliated with religious orders. The sins of the institutional Roman Catholic Church, and the faults of too many individuals acting at what they took to be its behest, are all too well-documented. I can't apologize for all the wrongs it has perpetrated, and all the pain it has undoubtedly inflicted, although apologies *should* be issued by those with the power and under the obligation to do so. I believe that the institution and individual perpetrators should be help responsible for the harm they have caused, up to and including with prison sentences, if appropriate. And I won't even try to second-guess the decision of anyone who felt the necessity of leaving the church to preserve his or her personal well-being. That's a step I have considered taking myself on several different occasions, and I well understand what could lead a person to that point, although my decision-making process had a different outcome than yours. But I do firmly believe that there is another side to the institution and its members, one that is not as well known or recognized in the off-hand remarks about "recovering Catholics" and nuns with rulers so often bandied about in our workplaces and at social gatherings. We hear all about those elementary school nuns, and yes, we *should* hear about them if they abused children. But do we also hear about Sr. Georgeanne at my high school who provided her social studies students with some of their first glimpses into the struggles of organized farm labor in the mid-1970's, and suggested taking the concrete action of boycotting certain products accordingly? The priests who took a visible and principled stand for civil rights for African Americans and members of other disenfranchised groups in the 1960's, and paid for it with jail terms? The dedicated lay employees who ran Marquette's campus ministry program, and coordinated long-term volunteer programs for students working in the inner city of Milwaukee, and short-term volunteer opportunities over spring break in Appalachia? Mother Beata, who comforted and supported MG from this list when she so desperately needed it? And last, but not least, do we hear about the individual active parishioners today who box items for shipping to members of a sister parish in Nicaragua, meet in one another's homes for Bible study and fellowship, analyze the structural basis of injustice in our society, work hard for church reform from within, and visit the sick on their own time, all motivated by their Catholic faith? I just think that if we're going to hear the story, we should hear the *whole* story of an institution that so often simply doesn't speak with one voice. Finally, Susan writes, "Besides that the Catholic church doesn't much like my life style." Susan, I don't know exactly what you're referring to, but I can guess. And it may be little consolation, but all I can say is: for what it's worth, *this* individual Catholic doesn't merely "tolerate," but firmly supports and accepts your life exactly as you lead it, and wishes you the greatest happiness. And I daresay there is more sentiment just like that in pews of Catholic churches all around the country. If the people lead, I am firmly convinced that eventually the leaders *have* to follow, no matter what they say (wishful thinking on their part?) about the church not being a democracy. Back to work now (and maybe, back to light-hearted memories), Mary. P.S. The opinions expressed above are solely my own. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:26:53 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: to be a pin on some map, my vicarious thrill The bumper sticker around town says "ITHACA IS GORGES" and it certainly is!! We are not at peak yet...probably sometime next week. sue At 8:33 PM -0400 10/11/00, Heather wrote: >Ithaca is a beautiful place! It must be psychedelic right now with >the leaves changing! > >Heather (from Binghamton) ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:42:09 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: RE: Conversation At 10:31 AM 10/12/00 -0500, Susan wrote: >I also think the line you refer to (apples & cheeses) may not >need to be taken so literal, it is a convenient rhyme. In an early (before the studio album was released) live performance of this song Joni sang "grapes and cheeses." I think "apples" with two syllables instead of one ("grapes") fits the musical structure better and was, as you wrote, more "convenient." Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:35:30 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Re: "I went looking for a cause..." I wonder if our old friend Bill Dollinger is still lurking out there? Joni did a beautiful photo shoot during Dog Eat Dog days for FRIENDS OF ANIMALS. Joni in her best/worst perm hugging wolves. Bill sent me a great glossy of that promotion. You can see a picture here: http://www.friendsofanimals.org/pred/wolf/joni.htm Hey Bill -- delurk!! :-) Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #542 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?