From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #537 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Monday, October 9 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 537 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- astrology census njc but read ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #536 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #535 [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Re: Foreign movies (NJC) [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Re: A Case of You [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: to be a pin on some map, my vicarious thrill ["cassy" ] Blue [Steve Dulson ] Re: pin me up [Brian Gross ] Re: pin me up [pat holden ] Picnic at Hanging Rock (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: That Song About the Midway, a correction [pat holden ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #536 [SBardMusic@aol.com] hello and goodbye NJC [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Blue [Don Rowe ] "The Gallery" ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Paging Bill Pearson... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni on Farm Aid CD ["Eric Wilcox" ] Re: "The Gallery" ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD (now NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD (now NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] KATE'S DARE... ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Foreign Films...(njc) ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] RE: "The Gallery" ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: "The Gallery" [Phyliss Ward ] Re: "The Gallery" [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: bette - NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD (now NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD ["Michael Paz" ] Autumn Poem NJC [Ken ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #536 ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: foregin films NJC [BarBearUh ] alison, nyc and lahm NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: luna (njc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: "The Gallery" ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Autumn Poem NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: "The Gallery" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: foregin films NJC [Jason Maloney ] Fwd: About Joni! [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Lonnie and Dom Songs??? [Julian51469@aol.com] LUNA (njc)... ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] The Gallery ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 04:50:17 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: astrology census njc but read there are scads of people that still haven't participated in the sun sign census. in order to have a representative sample of sorts, i need at least 100 more responses. all of you that were ever born, please e-mail privately. you only need to mention your sign, unless you want to be on my famous birthday fairy greeting list, in which case you also need to include day and month. love to y'all. wallyk, the entity that never sleeps. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 01:10:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Blue leslie@torchsongs.com >>I had heard that "Blue" was written for the late musician, David Blue, but always felt that Joni wrote it for James Taylor.<< I, too, always thought Blue was written for JT. But I was told (by someone close to the person it was supposed to be written about) that Blue was written for someone else. This one is a little harder to actually pin down to anything specific in the song except to say that seemed like she really loved this guy in a very sweet way & there is another song she wrote that has a similar attitude about the same guy. So, do you guys want to try & guess? Kate ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 01:10:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #536 >>I was able to know the writer of the song "Joe Hill," sung by Joan, when I was a 17 year-old green horn in LA back in 1975. The writer's name was Earl Robinson.<< I talked to Earl on the phone once. If memory serves me well he was looking for songwriters, doing either some sort of contest or workshop. I remember thinking he was a really nice man. I think he passed on not long after that which made me sad that I didn't get to meet him or talk with him more. ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:21:24 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #535 > > > John wrote: > > A couple of Australian films I would strongly > recommend are ‘Picnic at Hanging Rock’ (I think I remember Steve > Dulson praising this one on the jmdl about a year ago), ‘The Year My > Voice Broke’ and ‘Cosi’. The last of these concerns the (not > altogether successful) attempt by inmates of an asylum to mount a > production of Mozart’s opera ‘Cosi fan tutte’. It’s a real ‘out of > left field’ film so I hope it won’t put you off your love of opera, > Wally. > > Cheers, > John. > I definitely agree with Cosi. It's a beautiful play written by Australian playwright Louis Nowra. It's based on his life and he is the lead character. I loved the play, very funny and yet heartbreaking and Barry Otto is a fabulous actor! I would recommend "The Castle". Very tongue-in-cheek. "Love and Other Catastrophes" which is a great story and very interesting characters. I also loved "Picnic at Hanging Rock" it's beautifully shot and very haunting but can be slow. I read the novel which is also excellent. I read that there is a Chapter 18 to the novel that explains the disappearance of Miranda and the girls but Peter Weir wanted the movie to be more mysterious and for people to ruminate over the fate of the girls. Apparently, people still climb the rocks calling for Miranda! "Proof" - Hugo Weaving and Russell Crowe "Cut" - Molly Ringwald "Two Hand" - Heath Ledger and Bryan Brown I went through a stage where I wouldn't watch any Australian films... I found them boring and overly concerned with being Australian. The real 'ocker' sort of mentality. Ness N.P. "Cold" Annie Lennox ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:33:11 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: Foreign movies (NJC) > > > Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:38:18 -0700 (PDT) > From: gay reimers > Subject: non american films > > bleu > red > NOT white > belle de jour > diva > double life of veronique > un coeur en hiver > tous les matins du monde > I too love "Bleu" and "Red" and was very disappointed by "White" I too love "The Double Life of Veronique" and "Un Coeur en Hiver" I adore French films and particular actresses like Isabelle Adjani, Irene Jacob, Juliette Binoche, Beatrice Dalle and Enmmanuelle Beart! I also loved: "Queen Margot" (I have it on video) "Irma Vep" It sort of trailed off at the end but I love Maggie Cheoung (sp?) "Camille Claudel" (It made me cry) "Betty Blue" "La Belle L'Histoire" "Delicatessen" "The Wedding Banquet" (I have it on video) "Eat, Drink, Man, Woman" (made me very hungry) "Like Water for Chocolate" "Farinelli" (I have it on video) A German movie about a man who discovers that he is unable to father children with his mistress. He realises that his wife has been unfaithful as he has two kids. He tries to set his wife up and enlists the help of his brother the priest. Anyone have a clue? I could just keep going and going. I also love Gong Li movies and "Farewell My Concubine" is superb. "Raise the Red Lantern" etc are fabulous, I can't remember the director's name though? Ness ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 07:36:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of You <> Good job, Jerry! Had no knowledge of this one, so I'll add it to the database and lay it down on Volume 12! And of course you'll get a free copy of the volume when it's completed. Volume 11 is finished, and sometime this week I'll post a review and a little promo. Bob NP: Seal, "Dreaming In Metaphors" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:49:20 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: to be a pin on some map, my vicarious thrill NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC NJC I live in Dearborn Heights, Michigan (It's a suburb of Detroit) but I was born in Bolton, Lancashire, England and emigrated to the USA in 1969, where I discovered Joni for the first time. I am inconspicuous among beautiful women. My husband, Thom, says I am nothing short of spectacular in heart and determination, my ability to set myself a goal and achieve it has seen me through some very rough times in the last couple of years and with him by my side I feel as if I could accomplish anything, ain't love grand? I wish you well in your endeavor to "pin us all down." Regards, Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:51:05 -0400 From: Maggie McNally Subject: pin me up Dean, This holiday morning I downloaded my digests for the first time in a month and decided to start with the most recent and work my way back as best I could. I enjoyed reading your stream-of-consciousness, and was delighted with the idea of a JMDL world map. Although I don't have much opportunity to track or participate, the spirit of JMDL is something I cherish and suspect you will too. I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA where, by the way, Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter will be playing this Friday. Since it has been so long since I have read the list I have no idea if there have been any threads about this. If there have, would someone tell me the dates so I can check it out -- don't know how much of today I can devote to catching up! Warm regards to all... Maggie >simply an email with >your town or the nearest one if your way in the sticks i'll pin you up..... > Maggie McNally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 08:04:50 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Blue Kate wrote: >That being said, who do you think Blue was written for? David Blue, AKA David Cohen. - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 08:28:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: pin me up Dean wrote: > >simply an email with > >your town or the nearest one if your way in the sticks i'll pin you up..... Hello Dean, and welcome home! I'm presently living in Camden County, New Jersey (the site of Joni's most recent public performance at the Sony-Blockbuster E-Centre on June 2nd), just to the southeast of Philadelphia Pennsylvania, though my heart and soul are in Hamilton Ontario, Canada. Take good care, Brian ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:54:37 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: pin me up Brian Gross wrote: > Dean wrote: > > >simply an email with > > >your town or the nearest one if your way in the sticks i'll pin you up..... > > Hello Dean, and welcome home! > > I'm presently living in Camden County, New Jersey (the site of Joni's most > recent public performance at the Sony-Blockbuster E-Centre on June 2nd), just > to the southeast of Philadelphia Pennsylvania, though my heart and soul are in > Hamilton Ontario, Canada. > > Take good care, > > Brian Hi Dean....I just wanted to say welcome home too...this is a wonderful place to be and to grow. I am the lucky woman mentioned by Brian and I would tell you that my heart and soul are with him, always. I live in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada with my 15 year old daughter Miranda. I am a writer, runner, lover of nature, especially hawks flying over head, let's see...Im also a calligrapher and a manager with Indigo Books in Burlington, Ontario. (needless to say i love books and just about anything to do with the written word). I think your project is wonderful. Best of luck with it. take good care, Mags (my name Mags comes from my middle name Margaret and it seems that people closest to me use that the most ) > > ===== > "No paper thin walls, no folks above > No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" > > yeah, right > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:27:19 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Picnic at Hanging Rock (NJC) John in Australia wrote: >A couple of Australian films I would strongly >recommend are ëPicnic at Hanging Rockí (I think I remember Steve >Dulson praising this one on the jmdl about a year ago) What a memory!:) Yes, one of my all-time faves, and one of the scariest movies I've ever seen - with NO blood and guts. As a friend pointed out only yesterday, it also takes place entirely in daylight. The power of suggestion versus hitting you over the head with the obvious. - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:23:03 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: That Song About the Midway, a correction Scott Price wrote: > > < in several ways, >> the stirring of some of my thoughts on the meaning of joni's words, some personal things and Thanksgiving Day: this is what i love about Joni's music...and part of why I am here; to share life longings, ideas, thoughts and feelings about what a particular song or phrase means to me. To find a community of kindred spirits where I feel safe. welcome and a part of (no longer on the outside of, which has been much of my past life experience) has been one of the greatest blessings of all in my life. It has opened not only windows but doors to places I only dreamed about. At the centre of all of this, resides the love of my life, Brian. On this Thanksgiving Day...I am so very grateful for you Brian. > > and scott added: > << Is there some hidden meaning to > "Magdalene Laundries?" Isn't that song about a real place in Ireland and > its history of atrocities?>> to which i could not help but respond: for me, one of the draws to joni's music and lyrics is her story telling about the experiences of being a woman who bore a child out of "wedlock". the magdalene laundries is the story of a place of horror for those women whose only "crime" was to get "caught" having sex, suffer the consequences and have nowhere to go, except perhaps stand on a step outside of a cold hotel doorway at 2 am and wait, paralyzed by fear, unable to move, or get swept away into the oblivion of someone else's shame. sad to say, it was real. all too real. this is when i take that giant step outside of my protective inner self and share a piece of me. i went through that too. i remember listening from my tiny attic apartment in london ontario..to blue, to little green and river in particular. oh i surely wished for a river to skate away on. joni's music was very much a part of my survival then. and now. and in all hard times. i know from the inside out that the truths, the shame and blaming that she speaks of rings loud and clear. i am glad she has the courage to give voice to her experiences, and whether our beloved joni realizes it or not, she has given voice to those of us who were rendered speechless. Mags, one of the jezebels, who is real tired of her accomodating silence. np: Magdalene Laundries > > > - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:14:44 EDT From: Hejira8@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #391 ERIC, TIM LOVES YOU! - ---TIM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:33:04 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Joni on Farm Aid CD Hi Kids-(OK and Sluts too!!!) Was just reading the new Rolling Stone during lunch and see that Joni is on the first Farm Aid Double CD. Don't know if this is new news to anyone, but me, so I thought I would pass it along anyway. Lots of other good artists listed on this cd like: DMN, Lou Reed, Don Henley, Johnny Cash, Elton John, Steve Earle, etc. Sounds like a sluts wet dream and if not at leat its a very worthy cause for helping out our nations farmers. Peace Michael (out the door on the way to Tower) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:45:34 EDT From: SBardMusic@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #536 the beatles are the beginning and the end. all other popular music exists somewhere between these two points. with love stephenbard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:48:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: hello and goodbye NJC alison e.: good luck on your transition! fun things (and people, if i do say so myself) await you in NYC. oh, fellow NYC JMDLers, i'm depressed: i teach a class tuesday nights and so can't make the 10/17 david lahm show! oh no! so i'm planning to go to the 11 pm one on 10/19, if anyone should care to meet there....david, i'm really looking forward to it! i'm sorry i won't be making the major JMDL gathering, but perhaps i can strike a subversive note and encourage one and all to get on the 10/19 train with me! c'mon, 11 pm is when it all just STARTS happening....!!!!! - --emily ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:23:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Blue I stopped trying to second-guess Joni a long, long time ago. Larry Klein ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:27:46 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: "The Gallery" Speaking of "The Gallery," Kakki wrote (and Kate Bennett agreed): "I always thought it was about a boyfriend from her art school days. After Joni and Kilauren reunited and reading the news articles about Kilauren's father who is a photographer, I tend to think it was about him. "I was left to winter here (Joni left in Toronto) while you went west for pleasure" ("he went to California hearing that everything's warmer there"). I like the Diego Rivera tie-in you make." I'll weigh in here with a different opinion, although the connections Kakki makes are very interesting. But I never interpreted the central conceit, the gallery, literally enough that I assumed the song's subject was an actual artist or photographer. Rather, I always had the sense that it was about Leonard Cohen. When Joni and Cohen met, Cohen was an "older man" in his early 30's, and someone she considered to be sophisticated and urbane. (I'm remembering this from something I read quite recently: perhaps Joni's own words in the Mendel catalog). Cohen has long had a reputation for being a ladies' man, and whatever Brad McMath's failings might have been, I'm not sure he went out west "for pleasure" as much as to escape a situation that he found overwhelming. The phrasing throughout the song leads me to believe that the protagonist, like Cohen, is a man of some means: in his world, people "go west for pleasure," and "winter" in different places than they "summer." Compare this to "Rainy Night House," where Cohen's mother has gone to Florida and returned tanned, before Cohen himself treks off to Arizona. Joni has picked up these ideas and turns of phrases from him, although she doesn't yet the means in "The Gallery" to put them into action: she's "left to winter" somewhere she doesn't want to be. I also think that the conceit of the gallery may not be what it appears on the surface. Rather than signifying that the protagonist is an artist, it makes some sense that the he *acquires* works of art with his wealth. He *owns* the gallery, rather than having created it. On another level, the "paintings of ladies" are the actual women in his life, over whom he exerts power due to his personal magnetism and, perhaps, his social position. This is a man of charm and status who makes things happen. On still another level, the protagonist is an "interpreter," a mythmaker, whose "portrayals" of them are powerful indeed to the women who are close to him. Cohen very much saw himself in this vein in the autobiographical novel "The Favorite Game," and by implication, in the title of his early collection of poetry, "Let Us Compare Mythologies." In that the protagonist *is* an artist, his art is of this variety, rather than one conducted in a more tangible medium. At the end of the song, the protagonist has been "changed. . . with religion." Cohen has always been a spiritual seeker, and, as someone pointed out, even now spends a substantial portion of his time living at a Buddhist temple. Finally, I recall a comment of Joni's that Leonard Cohen taught her early on to "work on the poignancy of a song." I think that, for a time, anyway, what this meant for her was constructing metaphorical conceits (e.g.: gallery = women over whom you exert power) that were as carefully developed as those of the metaphysical poets. . .or, for that matter, those of Cohen himself. This song strikes me as very much in that vein. I rest my case! ;-) Mary the Contrarian. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:00:03 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD <> Funny you mention that Michael, cuz I saw that disc at Best Buy, but it was just a single CD and no Joni on it! The plot thickens... Bob NP: Ron Sexsmith, "Right About Now" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:02:24 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Paging Bill Pearson... Sorry in advance, since my system is in the shop, I don't have access to my address book... Bill Pearson, I need your mailing address, got a CD to get out to you tomorrow!!! It's a Joni covers CD, so there's the JC! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:07:25 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: Joni on Farm Aid CD Amazon.com lists the CD as a doublt, but Joni is not on either disc. Maybe the Rolling Stone magazine printed something in error? eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 3:00 PM To: michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD <> Funny you mention that Michael, cuz I saw that disc at Best Buy, but it was just a single CD and no Joni on it! The plot thickens... Bob NP: Ron Sexsmith, "Right About Now" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:59:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: "The Gallery" Mary wrote: > At the end of the song, the protagonist has been "changed. . . with > religion." Cohen has always been a spiritual seeker, and, as someone > pointed out, even now spends a substantial portion of his time living at a > Buddhist temple. > > Finally, I recall a comment of Joni's that Leonard Cohen taught her early on > to "work on the poignancy of a song." I think that, for a time, anyway, > what this meant for her was constructing metaphorical conceits (e.g.: > gallery = women over whom you exert power) that were as carefully developed > as those of the metaphysical poets. . .or, for that matter, those of Cohen > himself. This song strikes me as very much in that vein. I agree that some of the lines in this song poke holes in my theory that it could be about Brad McMath. The "changed you with religion" line makes me think of Cohen, too. But the preceding line "they've monitored your brain" makes it sound like the religion is more along the lines of the upstart "cult" variety, and not the more spiritual experience we'd expect Cohen to seek. The protagonist does sound like someone more established, prosperous and sophisticated. The way Joni characterizes him overall does not fit with what little we know about McMath. However, I get thrown by the lines which are coincidental to her experience with McMath and also the "I keep your house in fit repair, I dust the portraits daily, your mail comes here from everywhere" and "I gave you all my pretty years." It's one of the tougher songs to pin down, I think ;-) Kakki NP: Cowboy Junkies - Misguided Angel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:15:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD (now NJC) > NP: Ron Sexsmith, "Right About Now" That's GOT to come from the famous Glam Rock Name Generator website ... please tell me it does. Hologram Feathersex ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:35:52 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD (now NJC) <<> NP: Ron Sexsmith, "Right About Now" That's GOT to come from the famous Glam Rock Name Generator website ... please tell me it does.>> No such thing...he's a singer-songwriter, not awful but not as good as I was told he was. But wouldn't being a "Sexsmith" be more fun than a "Blacksmith" or a Silversmith"? Bob NP: Kenny Wayne Shepherd, "Deja Voodoo" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:16:30 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: KATE'S DARE... OK, KATE, I'LL HAVE A GO... HOW 'BOUT "WOMAN OF HEART AND MIND"? CHRIS NP:"HEAL THE PAIN"-GEORGE MICHAEL (I cant listen to this talented man w/o recapping the unfortunate urinal incident in my head...for shame...) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:20:09 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Foreign Films...(njc) While were on the topic... Though it's been brutually beaten up by the critical community (apparently, they don't hold much weight in these circles anyway..) ;~>, Jill Clayburgh's starring role in the Italian film "Luna" (1979?) has always held a special place in my heart, and is NOT available on video commercially, import or otherwise. Does anyone know where I can get a copy? Help! - -Chris ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:36:58 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: "The Gallery" Kakki wrote (hey, we're playing e-mail tag! ;-) ): "The "changed you with religion" line makes me think of Cohen, too. But the preceding line "they've monitored your brain" makes it sound like the religion is more along the lines of the upstart "cult" variety, and not the more spiritual experience we'd expect Cohen to seek. The protagonist does sound like someone more established, prosperous and sophisticated. The way Joni characterizes him overall does not fit with what little we know about McMath. However, I get thrown by the lines which are coincidental to her experience with McMath and also the "I keep your house in fit repair, I dust the portraits daily, your mail comes here from everywhere" and "I gave you all my pretty years." It's one of the tougher songs to pin down, I think ;-)" RE: the "monitored your brain" line: yes, that does sound like Joni *thought* it was a cult experience. But then, on "Roses Blue," which appeared on the same album, Joni makes similar, unflattering comments about Rose, who was into "tarot cards and potions, zodiac and zen." Maybe these lines more reflect how Joni felt about some of the religious experimentation going on about her at this particular point in time than the actual experience of the seeker. RE: "I keep your house in fit repair / I dust the portraits daily / your mail comes in from everywhere / the writing looks like ladies'": again, for me, this conjures up the image of Cohen, or at least, someone very much like him. The protagonist of the song is someone with money enough to travel "everywhere": he's closer to a jet-setter than a young man fleeing art school in Calgary due to a personal crisis. The image of Joni "keeping [his] house in fit repair" and "dusting the portraits daily" has also struck me as almost suggesting the role of a maid, rather than a lover, and heightens the disparity in wealth and status between the two. It also suggests that Joni is tending to something of value to the male figure in his absence: his particular world view, or his "portrayal" of her, or even his circle of social contacts (perhaps making sure that he can continue to remain in communication with his various lady friends). But about the line "I gave you all my pretty years": I haven't a clue, because I don't think she gave "years" to either Cohen or McMath! So this is where I cop out and say, "you know, we can't really regard Joni's work as completely autobiographical. She uses her life as a jumping-off point, and then creates a work of art that exists in a reality of its own," or other words you say when you're not sure just what the heck you're talking about. ;-) Regards, Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:41:07 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: "The Gallery" Didn't Cohen do the Scientology thing? I believe they "monitor your brain" with some machine as part of their process... Kakki wrote: > I agree that some of the lines in this song poke holes in my theory that it > could be about Brad McMath. The "changed you with religion" line makes me > think of Cohen, too. But the preceding line "they've monitored your brain" > makes it sound like the religion is more along the lines of the upstart > "cult" variety, and not the more spiritual experience we'd expect Cohen to > seek. - -- Phyliss, yes, I'm still out here... : - ) mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:01:36 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: "The Gallery" In a message dated 10/9/00 4:47:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PitassiM@WEAC.org writes: << But the preceding line "they've monitored your brain" makes it sound like the religion is more along the lines of the upstart "cult" variety, and not the more spiritual experience we'd expect Cohen to seek. >> I think I read an interview with Cohen where they said he was givven terrible shock treatments at some point in his life.I may be confusing him with Lou Reed,however. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:04:21 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: bette - NJC In a message dated 10/8/00 5:10:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << The new Bette Midler cd has God Give Me Strength on it from Grace of My Heart. >> Very cool!! :-) I really like that song! BTW.......Did anyone who was here for Jonifest mistakenly leave with my Grace of my Heart CD? It seems to be missing in action. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:23:46 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD (now NJC) Bob wrote: << But wouldn't being a "Sexsmith" be more fun than a "Blacksmith" or a Silversmith"? >> I think it would hurt, if a "smith" is someone who makes metals :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:55:27 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD This is one from the museum of hmmmmmmmmmm! Michael - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Joni on Farm Aid CD > < on the first Farm Aid Double CD. >> > > Funny you mention that Michael, cuz I saw that disc at Best Buy, but it was just a single CD and no Joni on it! > > The plot thickens... > > Bob > > NP: Ron Sexsmith, "Right About Now" > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:01:46 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Autumn Poem NJC Happy Thanksgiving Canuks! When the weather Is hot and sticky, That's no time To dunk your dicky But when the dew Is on the pumpkin, That's the time for dicky dunkin' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:03:26 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #536 > the beatles are the beginning and the end. all other popular music exists > somewhere between these two points. In my music collection, Abba is at the beginning and Frank Zappa is at the end though I'm not sure what that means. Victor NP: Paul Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:41:02 -0400 From: BarBearUh Subject: Re: foregin films NJC i'm really impressed by how much all you jmdlers know about foreign movies! but i guess i should have expected it, after all, your taste in joni says a lot. this is one of my favorite subjects, so i'm going to indulge... wim wenders film "Wings of Desire" would make it into my list of top 10 movies of all time, and his "Until the End of the World" would be close. i also cherish "il Postino" and "Secrets & Lies". Azeem mentioned "Saving Grace", which i caught at sundance. Brenda Blethyn, who stars in it (and "S&L"), is one very fine actress. The scene when she gets stoned has this one shot that lasts maybe 2 seconds that i find completely brilliant. she somehow masters making the very precise facial expression for just-about-to-be-stoned. so many movies cut from smoking a joint to laughing, but here she acts out the process, and i can't imagine how she got that expression down to a T. it's a really funny film, nothing mind-blowing about it, but great entertainment. Blethyn was also in another film that i think is british called "music from another room" (it may be american - it had half american actors & half british). she was also great in that as a dying mother concerned that her daughter was following her heart. others very worth mentioning... Paperhouse - obscure brit. movie about a child who is sick and goes in and out of a dream world. beautifully shot and haunting.(bernard rose directed - he later did "immortal beloved" about beethovan) My Brilliant Career - dir Gillian Armstrong starring Judy Davis as an australian farmgirl who wants a writing career instead of a husband. classic. Shine - music is phenomenal, both the classical compositions and the modern soundtrack (what a job, to write music that serves rachmoninoff, bach, etc). composer was completely ripped off for the oscar by the overblown soundtrack of that movie with Thomas & Fiennes about the pilot c. WWI. The Americanization of Emily - i think this is a british film, though it could be american. Julie Andrews stars. It flopped because it came out right around Mary Poppins & Sound of Music (both big faves) and Julie is a much naughtier girl in this movie about honor. Ang Lee's Sense & Sensibility - beautifully shot, great script by Emma Thompson and she is fabulous in it. By far the best jane austen adaptation ever made. Almadovar's Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, which is hilarious and is one of the most colorful films around (how does he get that red?), and All About my Mother was fascinating and weird. His films really have their own look. Beauty & the Beast - the french Renoir classic from the 40s. dreamy b/w photography & art direction. Jonah who Will be 25 in the Year 2000. this is a film from switzerland that i saw decades ago - i think it was the first subtitled film that i really flipped over. i wish i could remember it or find it at a rental place and see it again. for food movies, i was bored to tears by "babette's feast", but LOVE "like water for chocolate". Hamlet - great script! ;-> the '48 version w/Olivier is a classic. i saw a norwegian version decades ago that was stunning. the new ethan hawke version is also very cool. Louis Malle's Murmer of the Heart & Au Revoir les Enfants - stunning style. this guy is a first rate director. Impromtu - delightful film about 19th century musicians & writers. Hugh Grant is great as Chopin, before he was ruined by stupid movies. Judy Davis also good. I am Cuba - cuban propaganda film containing four pro-communist stories. This contains some of the most stunning b/w photography and art direction you will ever see. Coppola & Scorsese got behind releasing it in the states a few years ago. Fotomator - don't know if i spelled that right. A German documentary from '98 or '99 about the discovery of some color photographs and comptroller records that document the gradual taking over of a ghetto by Nazis. one of the best docs i've ever seen. There are so many - Life is Beautiful, Howard's End, Georgy Girl, The Tin Drum, Nosferatu (herzog), Cinema Paradiso, Everybody's Fine, La Strada, Camille Claudel, Cyrano de Bergerac, Kurosawa's Dreams, Zentropa (used red highlights in b/w before and more effectively than Speilberg did), Brazil, Monty Python and the Holy Grail, My Left Foot, Oliver!, Sleuth, Truly Madly Deeply, Kyzslowski's Blue (haven't seen Red or White yet). there are also a lot of films that I think of as american that are probably british - i mean, aren't kubrick's movies all british? i may be wrong about this, but i think "don't look now" with donald sutherland & julie christie is british, "lawrence of arabia" and "a lion in winter". i will say this about the foreign v. american argument - foreign audiences, generally speaking, have more interest in films that require thinking on the part of the viewer. that is not to say that they make better movies or that everything american is stupid. i think it's really easy to look at what is at the local multiplex and believe that american cinema is devoid of any kind of quality and is in a state of complete decline. the types of movies that get promoted to death are pretty rotten IMHO, and i can't believe that people are entertained by all the crap out there. the production values are so high - i mean, most of these stupid movies are shot beautifully, the effects can be flawless, etc. - they just have bad scripts with one-dimensional characters (and this year has been particularly bad). as the corporatization of everything increases, so will the vapidness of movie culture. but we produce a lot, and it is very difficult to make a great movie, as it is to write a great book or anything else (even joni can't score a 10 every time out). america has a tremendous cinematic history, and there are always a few gems produced every year - you just might have to look for them. barbara np: jane siberry, tree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:36:36 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: alison, nyc and lahm NJC alison dearest, i'm so happy you're moving to NYC. imagine all the fun we'll have next time i'm in the city!!!!!!! new yorkers, get ready: NYC will never be the same now that alison is there! this girl is DANGEROUS! wallyk, who can't believe that he'll be NOT meeting david lahm yet one more time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:36:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: luna (njc) oh yes, LUNA is such a great movie too!!!!!!!!! i am sure i can get a copy in argentina, chris. in ant case, i can rent it and copy it [and commit a crime but what the heck!] let me find out. i love the part where jill's character [a somewhat eccentric opera singer] hypothesizes on the origins of rigoletto!!! the scene is a tribute to the stereotypical harebrained soprano!!! are you reading roberto? wallyk, harebrained mezzo >>>While were on the topic... Though it's been brutually beaten up by the critical community (apparently, they don't hold much weight in these circles anyway..) ;~>, Jill Clayburgh's starring role in the Italian film "Luna" (1979?) has always held a special place in my heart, and is NOT available on video commercially, import or otherwise. Does anyone know where I can get a copy? Help! - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:39:23 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: "The Gallery" was cohen ever a scientologist? that can be a clue. joni says that the song is about somebody who was an art connoisseur and a scientologist. wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:43:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Autumn Poem NJC lol!!!!!!! so funny, slarty man! why do canadians and us people celebrate thnxgvng on different days????? wallyk, in a thanksgivingless country De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Ken Enviado el: Lunes, 09 de Octubre de 2000 07:02 p.m. Para: JmDL Asunto: Autumn Poem NJC Happy Thanksgiving Canuks! When the weather Is hot and sticky, That's no time To dunk your dicky But when the dew Is on the pumpkin, That's the time for dicky dunkin' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:47:22 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: "The Gallery" In a message dated 10/9/00 4:18:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << The "changed you with religion" line makes me think of Cohen, too. But the preceding line "they've monitored your brain" makes it sound like the religion is more along the lines of the upstart "cult" variety, and not the more spiritual experience we'd expect Cohen to seek. >> What about Barry McGuire? He also was a singer/songwriter who found religion and made a significant change in his life. However, I don't know if he and Joni even knew each other. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:42:09 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: foregin films NJC Wonderful post, Barbara. I have only one thing to say on doubts over the dearth of truly great US films : American Beauty. Thank goodness it wasn't too hard to find. I rest my case. Jason. PS. My review of AB is now featured on my writing portfolio page at Themestream.com. Colin, you needn't visit :-) BarBearUh wrote: > > i will say this about the foreign v. american argument - foreign > audiences, generally speaking, have more interest in films that require > thinking on the part of the viewer. that is not to say that they make > better movies or that everything american is stupid. i think it's > really easy to look at what is at the local multiplex and believe that > american cinema is devoid of any kind of quality and is in a state of > complete decline. the types of movies that get promoted to death are > pretty rotten IMHO, and i can't believe that people are entertained by > all the crap out there. the production values are so high - i mean, > most of these stupid movies are shot beautifully, the effects can be > flawless, etc. - they just have bad scripts with one-dimensional > characters (and this year has been particularly bad). as the > corporatization of everything increases, so will the vapidness of movie > culture. but we produce a lot, and it is very difficult to make a great > movie, as it is to write a great book or anything else (even joni can't > score a 10 every time out). america has a tremendous cinematic history, > and there are always a few gems produced every year - you just might > have to look for them. > > barbara > np: jane siberry, tree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:23:12 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Fwd: About Joni! - --part1_30.b314aa7.2713bb70_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_30.b314aa7.2713bb70_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Full-name: MINGSDANCE Message-ID: <86.1295191.270ff924@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:57:24 EDT Subject: About Joni! To: Blendershoes@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 112 Hey Tina, Sorry I haven't been able to connect but I don't have your number anywhere. It used to come on the caller ID as Dorothy Calcut or something like that but it no longer shows up so please call and leave your phone number on my machine or E-mail me. I have a gift for you from the ART opening AND i NEED A DEFfIANTe ADDRESS TO SEND IT SO i'M SURE YOU GET IT. I'm trying to express how off I feel from starting my new rat poisons, It was quite nice to have a three month break from the meds but my counts are way off the charts and worse then they have ever been. I sleep a lot and soak the bed with all of my distorted dreams wishing there was some deeper meaning--- But I have been blessed because I have been hugged and kissed two different times in the same day by Joni! It was so down to earth, as when we met, there was some spirit connections of old souls once again passing in the over abundant market place of this life and past ones, She is definitely one of us. Stay safe my friend, I miss talking to you and hope we can communicate soon! much love from Mingus - --part1_30.b314aa7.2713bb70_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:54:39 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Re: Lonnie and Dom Songs??? In a message dated 10/9/00 3:11:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael Paz writes: << They are some trades I got before I found the JMDL, from some kind person from another Joni Chat list from aol. What I found were: "The Lonnie and Dom Songs (Early On)", >> Hello Michael, I'm still trying to hunt down some of those early, unreleased songs of Joni's and was wondering if there might be some gems on this tape of yours... Do you have a song listing for this tape? I would love to see what it has to offer. I actually have a beautiful looking (but horrible sounding) red, white and blue spin-art vinyl version of "Posal and the Mosalm" and I think I have versions of those others that you mentioned. Perhaps you have some ideas of some tapes that I might check (and anybody else out there...don't hold out on the rest of us) for the remaining 15 or so unfound, unreleased tunes. Thanks for all of your insights and enthusiasm. Take care, Julian ps. Sorry I've been away but I've been busy... We had our baby...Lucy Iris: 8lbs 13oz, 21 and a half in. born 12:12 am 10/1/00. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:27:02 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: LUNA (njc)... Wally wrote: "i am sure i can get a copy in argentina, chris. in ant case, i can rent it and copy it [and commit a crime but what the heck!] let me find out." It's no crime to hook me up with one of my favorite films that I haven't been able to see in years! ;~>>>! Please, do find out if it's available to you, Wally, and let me know! THANK YOU! -Chris NP:Ella-"Pure Ella" (To drown out the cat...) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:23:32 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: The Gallery Hey You Guyyyyyys (remember "The Electric Company"?), I thought I'd put it out there that my understanding of Scientology involves getting in touch/tune with negative messages in our heads that keep us feeling 'less than' and compel us (the 'royal us'; no need to personalize here!) to sabotage our lives from reaching full potential. As someone in recovery (yep - I bit the bullet, or depending on your perspective, my life had 'shit the bed'), I can identify with the sabotage thing, but for different reasons. In any event, perhaps the line about 'monitoring your brain' could be a more metaphorical approach to what I'm describing, and therefore keeping Mr. Cohen in the running. Admittedly, though, I have always had a vision of someone hooked into some sort of brainwave monitoring device whenever I hear the song. Cheerio! -Chris. NP:Strange cat sounds from the bedroom; is he masturbating on my blanket again??? ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #537 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?