From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #531 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Thursday, October 5 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 531 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Madonna NJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: NJC: Stacey, Teddy and Maddy [Jason Maloney ] Astrological Signs NJC [dsk ] Re: NJC: _Erotica_ [michael w yarbrough ] Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) [Siresorrow@aol.com] That Song About the Midway ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Paul Simon (NJC) [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Definition of "Coyote" (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Madonna NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) ["Kakki" ] Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) [Catherine McKay ] Kathy Lee Sings "Coyote" [Dottie Hinkel ] Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Five most recent purchases (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] NJC: Beams To Yugoslavia ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Stars & their Chars SJC ["Steve Mitchell" ] Re: Stars & their Chars SJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: You guys are a terrible (WONDERFUL!) influence!! (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.] The flicks NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Joni on Johnny Cash ["Steve" ] Re: Stars & their Chars SJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: The flicks NJC (a P.S.) [Jason Maloney ] Re: Five most recent purchases (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] Re: next video tape tree [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) [dsk ] Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) [catman ] Re: Stars & their Chars SJC ["Steve Mitchell" ] NJC - synchronicity alert/John Lennon [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) [Jason Maloney ] Re: The flicks NJC [Dottie Hinkel ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:42:04 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Madonna NJC catman wrote: > > Hasn't it been at least two years sinvce ROL? It certainly came out whilst I was living in > Londond and that was more than 18 mths ago now. Yes, it's been 2-and-a-half years, in fact. RoL came out in March 1998. I was wondering when that would be mentioned, because that's about average these days..unless your Simon, Knopfler, Gabriel or the like. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:52:39 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: NJC: Stacey, Teddy and Maddy AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > > I would also like to venture the suggestion that Erotica will come to > recognised as one of her best albums. I think that recognition has slowly begun already. RoL has an air about it of *christ, I really MUST make this album a success, I don't want to be seen to fail again*, whereas Erotica was a wilful, if flawed, expression of a self that's possibly truer than the born-again figure of RoL, which was still a cracking album BTW. I have a feeling she was more deliberate on RoL to ensure the project worked out well. Then again, motherhood could well be the reason for the change. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:03:54 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Madonna NJC Two and a half. That's still somewhat short by contemporary major label practices. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place But then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace." - --Common, "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, catman wrote: > Hasn't it been at least two years sinvce ROL? It certainly came out whilst I was living in > Londond and that was more than 18 mths ago now. > bw > colin > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:13:30 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Astrological Signs NJC Wally, In light of your current collecting of signs, I pass this message along: < Subject: Re: NJC: _Erotica_ _Erotica_ is my favorite Madonna album as well. It was actually quite well reviewed at the time, but lost in the _Sex_ hubbub, as was correctly hypothesized here. _Erotica_ deals with complex imagery around sex and alienation in a very sophisticated way, I think. Almost too sophisticated, which is why it was so misunderstood. I think a lot of people expected Madonna to make a hot-n-heavy-sex-is-great-and-I'm-so-horny bacchanal. She didn't. The album was much more about the ways sex complicates relationships and forces people apart rather than brings them together. So many songs address power problems that manifested sexually--"Bye Bye Baby," "Words," "Thief of Hearts." "Deeper and Deeper" addresses obsessions (and, it has been suggested, parental abuse, though that's stretching it), "Words" manipulation, "Thief of Hearts" possession, jealousy, infidelity, and competition among women, "Waiting" unrequited love, and of course "In This Life" (this album's clunker IMO) AIDS and diseases that make sex dangerous. The record opens with the title track, a word that literally means the objects used in/for sex, and plays out power issues AS sex, setting the stage as it were. Its next-to-last song is "Why's It So Hard," which asks why it's so hard "to love one another." That's a significant formulation, I think, because she's not CALLING for some utopian love environment, she's LAMENTING its IMPOSSIBILITY. The record ends with a tinge of hope, but somewhat unoptimistic hope, with the imagined and elusive "Secret Garden," where there's a "heart that will not harden, a place where I can be born." This is the darkest and most dispiriting record of her career (thus far). And it's the one about sex. From sex's supposed celebrator. Nobody knew what to make of that, and that's why it still occupies a really complicated place in her catalog. In terms of its place in the arc of her career, I think it's somewhat similar to HOSL for Joni, an outward-looking, somewhat pessimistic and musically cold recording immediately following a record that was the convergence of critical and commercial triumph, introspective but musically warm and accessible. That Madonna. Junk food for juveniles. All style and no substance. My ass. - --Michael - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place But then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace." - --Common, "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:43:40 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) In a message dated 10/5/00 1:54:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << I was welcomed and treated warmly from the start and my knowledge and love of Joni has always been appreciated by the RT listers. >> see, for me....right from the start....i was ridiculed for my screen name and was told that would continue until i changed it. and when i explained the name, i was told not to reference joni mitchell on "their" list. then there was the small case letters i prefer. you'd think i was exuding some odor over their screen by using small case. and all this was done by several people, not one. i was totally blown over by their humor. it just went over my head. and i left there feeling very hurt and glad to be away. now i did say there were some good people on that list. and i think you are brighter at understanding their metaphor, which i know i missed most of the time. i also think you handle yourself better and i know i'm given to italian feminine emotional outbursts that emerge from deep within my being. but i could never describe that list as a warm place. to me, it was cold and hurtful and mean spirited. in hindsight, there were only two people on that list that i came to enjoy. you are one, and the other one was dan s. who left the list with hurt feelings. in that light, i'm kind of amazed and glad that i've not been run off this list. please, don't get me wrong,,,,i know there are many places in this world i don't fit. that was one of them and it may very well say more about me.. than about that list. patrick np. m'shell - faithful ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:53:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: That Song About the Midway I must think I have time on my hands to be posting so much. Maybe its a full moon or something. Anyway, are there any other guesses as to who Joni wrote TSATM about? No, its not Jimi. Do you want a hint? It is in the line, "Can you fly I heard you did, can you fly. Like an eagle doing your hunting from the sky." ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:13:13 EDT From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: Paul Simon (NJC) greetings listers! i was there, with my money in my hand, within minutes of the store's opening. there are only a handful of artists for whom i feel compelled to do this kind of thing. joni (and paul simon) among them. who knows? i must have been weaned too soon. (must be some way i can blame my mother...) "you're the one" is a wonderful cd. and, as jimmy said, has some of the same influences, and, some of the same world class musicians, that have so informed his work since "graceland". but "graceland" and "rhythm of the saints", and, to some degree, "capeman" (which, if you've never heard, has many cuts that are absolutely transcendant!) were really masterful. this has a more relaxed, laid back sound to it, which may have something to do with why jimmy found it soothing. (jimmy was talking about his voice, and he does have a mellow, soothing voice, but the tone of this cd, independant of his voice, can also be described as such.) mr. alienation seems to have found himself a comfy spot in his life, and it comes through in his music. he has a happy marriage to edie brickell, 3 young children, and i am sure he has very few financial concerns... maybe all that has taken some of the edge off his work, but he's replaced that edge with an inner confidence and contentment. he seems happy. as he wrote on "graceland" - "i know what i know." and it appears as though he does. the big surprise about this disc is how FUNNY some of these songs are. "pigs, sheep and wolves" made me laugh out loud with delight. it is, to borrow a snippet of the lyric, hilarious! and the song is effortlessly profound, as much of his work often is. another cut, "old" is also very humorous. and "sweet lorraine" starts out as a very funny portrait of a marriage, or any long term relationship, and then the song takes a turn, and, at the end, is very, very moving. the final cut, "quiet", is a spine tingler! i don't mean to write a review. i will leave that to the more insightful among us. but i am a huge paul simon fan. i think he's every bit as important a songwriter as joni, and, like joni, he has changed, and grown, and dared and reached. and, just as we are with joni mitchell, we're all priveleged to be paul simon's "contemporaries", to hear and perceive his music in the times in which it was written. it gives us a special window into his work that others who follow will never have. we are blessed to have him. (i thot i wasn't writing a review!) peace everybody! ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:16:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) - --- Jason Maloney wrote: > Further to Colin's post, I don't think it's all that > clear-cut. Yes, a > lot of US film are formulaic, but equally many UK > films (especially in > the last 2 or 3 years) have been dire. Whenever you're tempted to think that the Brits have it all in terms of good taste in films, remember the Carry On series... ;) _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:17:48 -0000 From: "alan larson" Subject: Re: LPs (NJC) glad to see there are still some phil ochs' fans out there.... i was recording on video three of my favs of his today... crucifixion, draft dodger rag, and time was... his songs always get through to my soul... very untimely his death... he and abbey hoffman self medicating their agony at the death of the 60's would like to hear your take on his biography.... when published and by who, etc. where to buy it online, if you don't mind thanks alan in ames oh, also did urge for going and california.... from my rather limited collection of joni songs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:19:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Definition of "Coyote" (NJC) - --- Lindsay Moon wrote: > I have been receiving e-mail newsletters from an > internet site called > ediets.com which contain numerous motivational > articles, etc. One doctor > who writes a regular column called Coyote Wisdom is > a Dr. Matthew Anderson. > At the beginning of each article there is a blurb > which states: "A > 'coyote' is a person who has learned the hard > lessons of life and has grown > from mistakes and difficulties. A coyote cuts > through confusion and > phoniness with heartfelt honesty, never pulls > punches and always makes room > for compassion ..." The one I heard at one of those biz courses was "Jonah" - i.e,. "So and So is a Jonah in the Wutzit Society". "Say what?" sez I. A Jonah is supposed to be some kind of expert. OK, so Jonah was the guy in the ticking whale (unless it was Joni in the ticking whale - there's yer JC) but where do these biz types come up with this jargon? Veddy sceddy! _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Madonna NJC - --- Jason Maloney wrote: > catman wrote: > > > > Hasn't it been at least two years sinvce ROL? It > certainly came out whilst I was living in > > Londond and that was more than 18 mths ago now. > > Yes, it's been 2-and-a-half years, in fact. Get out! I thought it was less than a year. Time flies. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:16:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) Patrick, siresorrow wrote: > see, for me....right from the start....i was ridiculed for my screen name and > was told that would continue until i changed it. and when i explained the > name, i was told not to reference joni mitchell on "their" list. then there > was the small case letters i prefer. you'd think i was exuding some odor > over their screen by using small case. and all this was done by several > people, not one. i was totally blown over by their humor. it just went over > my head. and i left there feeling very hurt and glad to be away. There's a really funny story related on The Lee Shore (CSN discussion list) website about this person who had a weird screen name and posted obscure comments that would tend to piss people off. This person started getting flamed and some people were clamoring to get him off the list. Finally one of the list administrators confronted him privately to see what his story was. Turns out this "problem poster" was David Crosby himself! Croz apologized to the list administrator and then to the list itself and "came out" with his identity. He still has a non-identifying screen handle and never signs his name but everyone knows who he is. > but i could never describe that list as a warm place. to me, it was cold and > hurtful and mean spirited. in hindsight, there were only two people on that > list that i came to enjoy. you are one, and the other one was dan s. who > left the list with hurt feelings. I imagine the RT list would not have as many openly sensitive members as the Joni list. To some extent, an artist's list draws people with similar personality traits. Then again a group of people can tend to set the tone of a list. Another funny story I heard lately was from a former jimdler. He joined a discussion list for love bird owners (there's a list for everything). He said that even such an innocuous-seeming list had just as much flamings and confrontations as any other list he'd been on. It probably boils down to the simple turf-building and turf-defending that can occur when a group of people gather anywhere over a long period of time. A few years back on the list Julie Webb recomended reading the book "Cyberville" (which is now on loan to my love-bird friend, by the way). The book relates all the "sociological aspects" of one of the very first internet discussion/chat groups. It is alternately funny, creepy and fascinating and a interesting read. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:35:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) - --- Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/5/00 1:54:23 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: > > then there > was the small case letters i prefer. you'd think i > was exuding some odor > over their screen by using small case. and all this > was done by several > people, not one. i was totally blown over by their > humor. it just went over > my head. and i left there feeling very hurt and > glad to be away. > I just thought your shift key was broken or something ;) i'd rather read something all in lower case than SOMETHING ALL IN UPPER CASE WOULDN'T YOU? STOP YELLING WOULDYA? P.S. If there can be a perfume called ! (which there is, btw, would I lie to you?), there might be a market for something called "Eau de l'Eau heure caisse".) _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:42:05 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) You know what's a pretty good movie? "An Affair Of Love", a French film about two late forty somethings who decide to have a weekly 'physical' relationship in a hotel, and how that relationship deteriorates when personal feelings intrude. The woman is played by Nathalie Baye, veteran of late 70s-80s Truffaut and Godard films. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:52:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Dottie Hinkel Subject: Suggestions for Kathy Lee's Next Cover - --- Jeff Clark wrote: contemplating Kathie Lee's next Joni cover > -- Coyote?? Yes...I can envision such a cover...in fact, I think it would be a real career-booster if Kathy Lee released an entire album of Joni covers to coincide with the impending tribute album. Some suggestions for Ms. Lee-Gifford might be: "Lead Ballon," The Beat Of Black Wings" -- of course, the dreaded "f" word would have to be replaced with something like "gosh darn," "Dreamland," "Dancin' Clown," "The Sire Of Sorrow,"...perhaps "My Secret Place" as a duet with little Codie?? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:39:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: That Song About the Midway O.K. Kate, this one has got me going since that was one of the first Joni songs I ever learned to play and I think it's still one of her best. Is it Neil Young? Kakki > I must think I have time on my hands to be posting so much. Maybe its a full > moon or something. Anyway, are there any other guesses as to who Joni wrote > TSATM about? > > No, its not Jimi. Do you want a hint? It is in the line, "Can you fly I > heard you did, can you fly. Like an eagle doing your hunting from the sky." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:11:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Dottie Hinkel Subject: Kathy Lee Sings "Coyote" - --- Jeff Clark wrote: contemplating Kathie Lee's next Joni cover > -- Coyote?? Yes...I can envision such a cover...in fact, I think it would be a real career-booster if Kathy Lee released an entire album of Joni covers to coincide with the impending tribute album. Some suggestions for Ms. Lee-Gifford might be: "Lead Ballon," The Beat Of Black Wings" -- of course, the dreaded "f" word would have to be replaced with something like "gosh darn," "Dreamland," "Dancin' Clown," "The Sire Of Sorrow,"...perhaps "My Secret Place" as a duet with little Codie?? __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:30:52 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) In a message dated 10/5/00 4:49:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: << "Eau de l'Eau heure caisse".) >> well i did learn something about the small case. the literary types find it offensive. to me, email is a lesser form of writing so it was ok. my first emails were inner office and i used small case. on the joni list, in over three years, it has only been mentioned twice. on the rt list, someone told me it makes my writing looked like "bad ee cummings" i had to look up ee cummings...because i'm not a literary type. so i started to use caps for a while. then the italian woman came out from with in and i said...fuck 'em...i'll use what ever case i want to use. but it's probaby wrong for me to use the small case if everyone else is using the large case. i think it can be perceived as disrespectful. plus, as debra said, it's a very british list and proably much more proper. patrick np. silence ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:02:46 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Five most recent purchases (NJC) OK Ashara, I can't compete with you on the obscurity front! Capercaillie were the only artists I had heard of on your list and that's because they're from the UK (and I still can't spell their name!) Here are my most recent purchases and a mixed bag they are:- 1 Riding with the King Eric Clapton and BB King. I bought this mainly because it was on very special offer on an internet site but it's very good. 2 Abandoned Shopping Trolley Hotline Gomez. My favourite modern UK band. This is a compilation of tracks which have been discarded for previous albums but it's still good. 3 Red Sky Ralph McTell It breaks my heart to tell you this because I love the man, but this is not a good album, at all. Sad. 4 When I was on Horseback Martin Simpson This was on me wish list for about a year but was worth waiting for. Guitar instrumental English folk songs and self penned, complete with TAB. 5 Another Side of Bob Dylan. My daughter bought me this as a birthday present, not knowing that I already had it on vinyl. It's still worth a listen. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:26:46 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Beams To Yugoslavia My best wishes go out to the citizens of Yugoslavia. I hope that they can see a peaceful transition of power that most of us on this List take for granted in our own countries. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:32:28 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Stars & their Chars SJC For those people in the UK with Sky One access, I just saw a trailer for a programme on Sunday night at 9.00 pm where Chars talk about their "star" employers. One of the Chars talks about a composer that asked her opinion on a song that she was writing, the picture that followed . . . Joni. I guess that I will be glued to the TV on Sunday night! - -- Stevie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:39:15 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Stars & their Chars SJC In a message dated 10/5/00 6:34:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.mitch@btinternet.com writes: << One of the Chars talks about a composer that asked her opinion on a song that she was writing, the picture that followed . . . Joni. I guess that I will be glued to the TV on Sunday night! >> UK JMDLers: PLEEEEEEEEASE tape this on as high a quality system/tape as you can for a future video tape tree!! If you can send me the original, I will have it transfered, and send it right back. THANKS!!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:50:16 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: You guys are a terrible (WONDERFUL!) influence!! (NJC) In a message dated 10/5/00 2:26:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sprout@eircom.net writes: << did you purchase her newest cd?>> Of course!! ;-) << did you explain to her about JMDL? >> I did briefly explain that the Joni Mitchell discussion list was how I got there via you and Kate. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:04:03 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: The flicks NJC At last! A chance to discuss something other than Marx and Freud with Marcel! Marcel wrote: << Foreign films here are different. If the film isnt good it wont get anything. While American films inevitably must have (a) a chase scene (b) a disrobed actress (c) something awful and gruesome happen; foreign films have intricate and interesting stories that one can imagine oneself actually being involved in a similar situation. >> I see what you're getting at, although I don't entirely agree. By the second sentence in the above quote, I assume you mean that for a foreign language film to be shown in the US it must have something going for it. That's probably true, and that fact acts as a filter. It's like we Brits often say US sitcoms are much better than ours. That's because we generally only get to see the good ones, ie Cheers, Frasier, Larry Sanders, Seinfeld, Friends etc. There are probably a load of really shite ones that never get here. By the same token, the crummy foreign films don't make it across the Atlantic - - indeed a lot of them don't make it over the English Channel, or if they do, they only get as far as London. Some of my favourite films are not in English, such as: Les Enfants Du Paradis (utterly brilliant French epic from about 1940) Un Air de Famille (superb French comedy, don't be surprised if it gets remade in Hollywood under the title Family Resemblances) Le Diner de Cons (hysterical farce about rich Parisians competing with each other to see who can bring the biggest idiot to dinner - again, ripe for a remake, and there's a part that's perfect for Danny De Vito!) All About My Mother - Pedro Almodovar's best yet, methinks Dance of the Wind (exquisite Indian film about a raga singer who loses her voice and is inspired again by hearing an orphan girl sing in the street - it may sound soppy, and it undoubtedly would be if Hollywood remade it, but this is just wonderful) And so on. (I loved Kolya too, btw) Where I think you're a bit brutal is in dismissing American films. While nearly all Hollywood blockbusters are pretty much as you say, some of my favourite films of recent years are smaller US ones, such as: Metropolitan - one of the most urbane, talkiest films ever; an action scene in this film is someone sneezing Buffalo 66 - truly original debut from Vincent Gallo Kissed - Amazingly brave and unbelievably sensitive treatment of a Difficult Subject: necrophilia!! Walking & Talking - says it all really - Catherine Keener rules! Twin Falls Idaho - From this year, it's the one about the Siamese twins - forget the trite David Lynch comparisons, this is a real one-off, beautifully done, full of warmth and humour Anything by John Sayles. Finally, I must echo Jason's comments about the lamentable standard of a lot of British films being made at the moment. I saw Elephant Juice recently, which was awful (I had been warned, but went anyway, because Daniela Nardini, an incendiary Scotish actress was in it); Hotel Splendide was not bad but seemed unfinished and full of major lapses in continuity; Gangster No. 1 was unremittingly grim, with one of the nastiest, most interminable torture scenes I ever hope to see. I didn't dare approach Rancid Aluminium - critics do have their uses, Colin, and when they ALL say "this is the worst film ever made", you can be pretty sure it's to be avoided! In the spirit of evening things up, a few GOOD (and less famous) recent British films: This Year's Love - terrific drama, set around Camden Town, full of memorable characters and believable dialogue Some Voices - touching and credible treatment of the story of a schizophrenic trying to come to terms with life in the "real world" after being released from an institution; very funny in places too Saving Grace - The wonderful Brenda Blethyn plays a wealthy (so she thinks) woman in Cornwall who after her husband's death discovers that he was bankrupt. How to save herself? Why, selling dope, of course. I can't remember when I last laughed as much in a cinema - and I went with my mother, who's 72, and she enjoyed it just as much. That's all folks! Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:20:15 +0100 From: "Steve" Subject: Joni on Johnny Cash Hi folks thought I might help to clear up the "did she didn't she" as far as Joni on the Johnny Cash Show (circa 1969) was concerned. Joni did appear on Johnny's show and I've got a copy, on the same show was Bob Dylan . To help answer the Saskatoon Question here's a transcription :- Joni had just finished singing Both Sides Now, JC...You wrote that song JM...Yes, Ive got about 100 I guess JC...That's beautiful . You know I was in Saskatoon for the first time, I guess, 10 or 11 years ago with Johnny Horton on a show there. I wrote a song about Saskatoon. JM...It was called The Girl From Saskatoon, I remember that one. JC...Were you at that show JM...Yes I was JC...Oh were you JM... Yes a friend of mine Rosanne was chosen the Girl From Saskatoon JC.....Oh, My......let's do a song together Joni and Johnny then duet on one of Johnny's songs "I still miss someone" And how a copy of that show found itself on a wee Scottish island over 30 years later is one of the wonders of science that I shall be forever grateful for. Steve..........the impossible dreamer NPIMH.....I still miss someone......copies to all who ask ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:33:32 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Stars & their Chars SJC In a message dated 10/5/00 6:32:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.mitch@btinternet.com writes: << where Chars talk about their "star" employers. >> For those of us who don't speak that brand of English, what are "Chars"? Maids? Janitors? Cleanup people? Sanitation engineers? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:29:30 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: The flicks NJC (a P.S.) Oh, one more thing.. Azeem, you mention Buffalo 66...HMV are selling this for £4.99 at the moment...now you've recommended it, I may take the plunge! Thanks. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:06:21 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Five most recent purchases (NJC) Jacky wrote: > > 1 Riding with the King Eric Clapton and BB King. > I bought this mainly because it was on very special offer on an internet > site but it's very good. Once upon a time I bought EC albums automatically, but I haven't ventured to get this yet. I didn't even recognize him in the promotional video for the album! > 2 Abandoned Shopping Trolley Hotline Gomez. > My favourite modern UK band. This is a compilation of tracks which have > been discarded for previous albums but it's still good. That has to be album title of the year! I saw this in the stores, and wondered excatly what it was. I have both standard albums, so I don't know if I need it or not. Jason (no Paul Simon yet, maybe it will come tomorrow along with the American beauty video?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:26:24 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: The flicks NJC AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > > Where I think you're a bit brutal is in dismissing American films. While > nearly all Hollywood blockbusters are pretty much as you say, some of my > favourite films of recent years are smaller US ones, such as: > > Walking & Talking - says it all really - Catherine Keener rules! I enjoyed this one, too. Our local library tends to get in some of these *arthouse* titles, which can be useful. BTW, what did you think of Catherine Keener in Being John Malkovich? That was an incredible, original film...and American! > Finally, I must echo Jason's comments about the lamentable standard of a lot > of British films being made at the moment. I saw Elephant Juice recently, > which was awful (I had been warned, but went anyway, because Daniela Nardini, > an incendiary Scotish actress was in it); Hotel Splendide was not bad but > seemed unfinished and full of major lapses in continuity; Gangster No. 1 was > unremittingly grim, with one of the nastiest, most interminable torture > scenes I ever hope to see. I didn't dare approach Rancid Aluminium - critics > do have their uses, Colin, and when they ALL say "this is the worst film ever > made", you can be pretty sure it's to be avoided! As Azeem says earlier, the rest of the world probably won't know or get to see (be inflicted with, would be more apt) the dreadful British films. And vice versa. > In the spirit of evening things up, a few GOOD (and less famous) recent > British films: > > This Year's Love - terrific drama, set around Camden Town, full of memorable > characters and believable dialogue I was tempted by this, but it has Kathy Burke in it. Sorry! There ARE good British flicks, I agree. Little Voice had its moments, so too did Rogue Trader (though both lacked a real spark). The Land Girls (with the 40 minutes of deleted scenes restoredon the DVD) is a personal favourite, while Neil Jordan's End Of The Affair was stunning, I thought. I'm still to see Angela's Ashes...it's been sitting on my shelf for weeks now. Worst Brit film I've seen (I avoid most of the dubious ones)....Mad Cows. Without a doubt. Anna Friel was the reason I wanted to see it, and the only reason I would ever see it again. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:22:53 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: next video tape tree Joe Farrell wrote: << Will any of the videos be available in the PAL format so european listers could get copies to enjoy?. >> Gotcha covered!! We have at least 2 PAL branches so far for the next set of video trees, (thanks Dave and Philip!) and can always use more. Everyone will be taken care of as soon as the Master copies are ready. I have one PAL copy of A Day in the Garden, and with a polite request to the list, I'm sure some of the people that have PAL copies of the first video tape tree can help you out as well. Let me know if you'd like the Day in the Garden PAL copy I have. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:27:47 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > it's probaby wrong for me to use the small case if everyone else is using the > large case. i think it can be perceived as disrespectful. plus, as debra > said, it's a very british list and proably much more proper. I never said and don't agree about the "much more proper" part and I hate to leave your comment without response because it makes it seem that your negative experience on the RT list happened because there are so many British fans there. As many Americans as Brits were involved in those ugly exchanges, which seemed to be very testosterone-driven rather than cultural. Using only lower case letters was just one more thing for the men to be tough about -- for ALL the men involved in the exchanges to be tough about. Such nastiness hasn't happened on the RT list in a long time, and I'm glad that for now people are actually discussing things and joking around instead of whatever some men do when they want the upper hand, the final word, the power (is that turf-building?) or just have to challenge and test the new men that come on the scene. There were a few men being "tested" during that time, but men have joined since then and it hasn't happened again, so, yep, it was a weird time. It's hard to keep the good feelings going when there's a bully around churning things up. It is true, though, that in general people there aren't as willing to back down or modify their views as people often do on the Joni list. Whether that's a sign of less outward (or inward) sensitivity, I don't know. RT does have an edgier view of life than Joni does so I guess that does come out in some of his fans (or people are his fans because of a similar quality in addition to appreciating great guitar playing) and of course that would affect the tone of the list. It might be that it's also a more honest view, which I hope doesn't preclude being sensitive, but maybe it does. Then again, Joni is considered both sensitive and honest -- how does she manage that? But I'm digressing.... So, again, Pat, it really is too bad about your experience on the RT list, and I do agree that it was unusually rough, but I don't think it had anything to do with the fact that there are so many British fans there. And I hope it doesn't affect what you hear when listening to RT's music. And I can't believe I'm still writing about the RT list. I think I'm done now though. Now I'm wondering about that sensitive and honest at the same time thing. :-) Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 01:34:55 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) > > > in that light, i'm kind of amazed and glad that i've not been run off this > list. don't be amazed. why should you be run off this list? of all the lists i have known this is by far the best and most home like. (or rather what i imagine home like to be) i don't think i have ever noticed a rude/off colour/patronizing/racist/homophobic/mysogynyst/fundy type post rom you! and those of us that do piss people off are still here. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 01:40:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) > on the joni list, in over > three years, it has only been mentioned twice. are there really such tight arsed types here on the joni list? well, i never.... > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:12:53 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Re: astrology census Pisces with Cancer rising here Wally (06 March 1961) - -- Stevie - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Kairuz" To: Sent: 27 September 2000 03:39 Subject: astrology census > joni mitchell is a scorpio. so much for joni content. > sorry guys, but since this is a census idea, i wanted everybody to get this > post, even the oj's [not simpson, jimmy, i mean the only joni's]. > for the longest time i've wanted to study the sun sign demographics on this > list. call me eccentric, call me wallyK. even if you don't believe in > astrology, i would appreciate it if you all e-mailed me privately simply > mentioning your sign. you don't have to tell me your date of birth or any > personal information. if you're not sure what sign you are, you can go to > the following link > www.astrology.com > and find out. > if you want to tell me your birthday, it's all right too. you'll be included > in my most excellent worldwide birthday greeting list!!! it would be great > if both frequent posters and lurkers participated. > my guess is that this list is mainly composed of libras and geminis. prove > me wrong. > wallyk > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:46:08 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Re: Stars & their Chars SJC Paul asked: > For those of us who don't speak that brand of English, what are "Chars"? > Maids? Janitors? Cleanup people? Sanitation engineers? Originally tea-ladies (char being slang for Tea) but now any sort of domestic staff. Hope that helps. - -- Stevie xx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:35:49 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: That Song About the Midway For some reason, I have it in my head that it was about Leonard Cohen. It would make some sense if you think that the "midway" actually means the music biz Kakki wrote: > O.K. Kate, this one has got me going since that was one of the first Joni > songs I ever learned to play and I think it's still one of her best. Is it > Neil Young? > > Kakki > > > I must think I have time on my hands to be posting so much. Maybe its a > full > > moon or something. Anyway, are there any other guesses as to who Joni > wrote > > TSATM about? > > > > No, its not Jimi. Do you want a hint? It is in the line, "Can you fly I > > heard you did, can you fly. Like an eagle doing your hunting from the > sky." - -- Phyliss mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:49:00 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: NJC - synchronicity alert/John Lennon Someone posted to the list -- yesterday, I think -- about the moment of silence that was observed for John Lennon after his murder. I remember exactly where I was when Lennon was shot, but I honestly can't remember anything about an organized moment of silence for him. And I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of it. Well, tonight I had dinner in a local restaurant with my friend Karen. Cat Stevens' "Tea for the Tillerman" was playing in rotation with a couple of other CDs. Talk turned to how Cat Stevens is suddenly hot all over again, and to music from that era, and do-you-remember, etc. All of a sudden Karen said, "Remember the moment of silence after Lennon was shot? I was at the mall with this guy I was dating and he got so angry about people observing a moment of silence for John Lennon, I broke up with him that day." --Bob NP: Theme from the Twilight Zone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 01:49:02 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) Catherine McKay wrote: > > Whenever you're tempted to think that the Brits have > it all in terms of good taste in films, remember the > Carry On series... > > ;) Oooooooohhhhhh, I saaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:00:08 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Stars & their Chars SJC In a message dated 10/5/00 8:42:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stevie.mitch@btinternet.com writes: << Originally tea-ladies (char being slang for Tea) but now any sort of domestic staff. Hope that helps. >> Sort of, except what are tea-ladies? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:26:42 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Kathie Lee's Circle Game In a message dated 10/5/00 9:54:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jclarknyc@netscape.net writes: << Jeff -- contemplating Kathie Lee's next Joni cover -- Coyote?? >> You can bet that when she does, we'll be there! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:29:10 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: "Banquet" Yes! I agree with you that Joni gets so much into one song. I also feel this way about People's Party from C&S. Do you (or does anyone) find that Joni has a certain strain to her voice when she sings Banquet? I find it kind of fitting with the subject matter .... in a frustrating way. Thanks for bringing this up :-) Heather - who is now getting back to writing about Shiva, Vishnu and Kali .... yikes! At 12:35 AM 10/5/00 -0400, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > One of my favorite Joni songs is "Banquet",the first song on FTR.The > song >really sais so much about life on earth in this day and age.Does anyone else >love this song? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Dottie Hinkel Subject: Re: The flicks NJC I agree with Jason...many if not most mainstream American films follow an identical formula involving generous portions of sex,violence, silly one-liners, and the ubiquitous chase scene. There are many compelling and original independent films made in this country but, unless you live in a major metropolitan area, you'll almost never see them on a big screen. As for US TV, there is an awful lot of crap on it that never makes it to the UK...if you're lucky. As for English films, some of my favorites are "The Wicker Man," "Secrets & Lies," and "Trainspotting." As for TV, love "AbFab," "Keeping Up Appearances," "As Time Goes By," and "Waiting For God." - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > At last! A chance to discuss something other than > Marx and Freud with > Marcel! Marcel wrote: > > << Foreign films here are different. If the film > isnt good it wont get > anything. While American films inevitably must have > (a) a chase scene (b) a > disrobed actress (c) something awful and gruesome > happen; foreign films have > intricate and interesting stories that one can > imagine oneself actually being > involved in a similar situation. >> > > I see what you're getting at, although I don't > entirely agree. By the second > sentence in the above quote, I assume you mean that > for a foreign language > film to be shown in the US it must have something > going for it. That's > probably true, and that fact acts as a filter. It's > like we Brits often say > US sitcoms are much better than ours. That's > because we generally only get > to see the good ones, ie Cheers, Frasier, Larry > Sanders, Seinfeld, Friends > etc. There are probably a load of really shite ones > that never get here. > > By the same token, the crummy foreign films don't > make it across the Atlantic > - indeed a lot of them don't make it over the > English Channel, or if they do, > they only get as far as London. Some of my > favourite films are not in > English, such as: > > Les Enfants Du Paradis (utterly brilliant French > epic from about 1940) > Un Air de Famille (superb French comedy, don't be > surprised if it gets remade > in Hollywood under the title Family Resemblances) > Le Diner de Cons (hysterical farce about rich > Parisians competing with each > other to see who can bring the biggest idiot to > dinner - again, ripe for a > remake, and there's a part that's perfect for Danny > De Vito!) > All About My Mother - Pedro Almodovar's best yet, > methinks > Dance of the Wind (exquisite Indian film about a > raga singer who loses her > voice and is inspired again by hearing an orphan > girl sing in the street - it > may sound soppy, and it undoubtedly would be if > Hollywood remade it, but this > is just wonderful) > > And so on. (I loved Kolya too, btw) > > Where I think you're a bit brutal is in dismissing > American films. While > nearly all Hollywood blockbusters are pretty much as > you say, some of my > favourite films of recent years are smaller US ones, > such as: > > Metropolitan - one of the most urbane, talkiest > films ever; an action scene > in this film is someone sneezing > > Buffalo 66 - truly original debut from Vincent Gallo > > Kissed - Amazingly brave and unbelievably sensitive > treatment of a Difficult > Subject: necrophilia!! > > Walking & Talking - says it all really - Catherine > Keener rules! > > Twin Falls Idaho - From this year, it's the one > about the Siamese twins - > forget the trite David Lynch comparisons, this is a > real one-off, beautifully > done, full of warmth and humour > > Anything by John Sayles. > > Finally, I must echo Jason's comments about the > lamentable standard of a lot > of British films being made at the moment. I saw > Elephant Juice recently, > which was awful (I had been warned, but went anyway, > because Daniela Nardini, > an incendiary Scotish actress was in it); Hotel > Splendide was not bad but > seemed unfinished and full of major lapses in > continuity; Gangster No. 1 was > unremittingly grim, with one of the nastiest, most > interminable torture > scenes I ever hope to see. I didn't dare approach > Rancid Aluminium - critics > do have their uses, Colin, and when they ALL say > "this is the worst film ever > made", you can be pretty sure it's to be avoided! > > In the spirit of evening things up, a few GOOD (and > less famous) recent > British films: > > This Year's Love - terrific drama, set around Camden > Town, full of memorable > characters and believable dialogue > > Some Voices - touching and credible treatment of the > story of a schizophrenic > trying to come to terms with life in the "real > world" after being released > from an institution; very funny in places too > > Saving Grace - The wonderful Brenda Blethyn plays a > wealthy (so she thinks) > woman in Cornwall who after her husband's death > discovers that he was > bankrupt. How to save herself? Why, selling dope, > of course. I can't > remember when I last laughed as much in a cinema - > and I went with my mother, > who's 72, and she enjoyed it just as much. > > That's all folks! > > Azeem __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #531 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?