From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #530 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Thursday, October 5 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 530 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Wang Chung (njc) ["Kakki" ] Robben v Robin and then Elizabeth NJC ["Ross, Les" ] RE: Robben v Robin and then Elizabeth NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Billy Elliot (NJC) [Joseph Palis ] Re: Kathy Lee's crap (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Madonna (njc) [HanknBG@aol.com] The next video tape tree [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Teddy Thompson njc [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Kathie Lee's Circle Game [Jeff Clark ] Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Old interviews with musicians [Jeff Clark ] kd in the uk (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Tell The Truth (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] LPs (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] re: Some Joni trivia ["c Karma" ] Re: Madonna (njc) [michael w yarbrough ] On Madonna [Jeff Clark ] Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) [catman ] Re: Madonna NJC [Catherine McKay ] Subject: Re: Patricia Barber (NJC) ["Susan" ] Linda Thompson NJC [dsk ] RE: Garland & singers (NJC) ["Eric Wilcox" ] Re: Madonna NJC [michael w yarbrough ] RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) [dsk ] Paul Simon (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Some Joni trivia [dsk ] Re: Madonna NJC [catman ] Definition of "Coyote" (NJC) [Lindsay Moon ] RE:You guys are a terrible (WONDERFUL!) influence!! (NJC) ["Garret" ] Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) [Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Wang Chung (njc) Evian wrote: > Wang Chung rocks! I still listen to them! Me, too!! I thought they were completely original and fantastic and grooving. Yeah, "Everybody Wang Chung Tonight" was a little lightweight and goofy but I always felt they were entitled to that one after putting out such great stuff. But that one is not at all representative of their music. Kinda like Joni and Lead Balloon" ;-) > Of course, "Dance Hall Days" is a classic, but I am almost as drawn to > "To Live and Die in L.A." -- What an awesome f-ing song!!!! I wish I could find the damn > thing on cd here. You can pick it up on CDNow but it's an import and $33.00 U.S. Hey maybe we can pick up a used on on eBay! ;-D CDNow also has most of the others at only $6.49. Can't count the number of times I've danceed and tranced to "Warmer Side of Cool". Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:39:05 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Robben v Robin and then Elizabeth NJC Robin Guthrie plays on most (all) of the Cocteau's albums. Sorry if this has already been covered. I just rescued a heap of my older CDs from a recent visit to the family home and finding the Cocteau Twins music made me wonder what I was thinking of leaving them in deep store all this time. I wonder what the List's view is of Elizabeth Fraser as a vocalist. I think she is amazing - otherwordly. Perhaps this is informed by the lyrics of her songs but nevertheless her singing send chills up my spine. Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:56:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Robben v Robin and then Elizabeth NJC les, i am a total junkie for liz fraser. i don't understand ONE SINGLE WORD she says. still, she is probably the nearest thing to a supernatural entity i've ever heard. incidentally, get ready for sunday, mr. ross! wallyk >I wonder what the List's view is of Elizabeth Fraser as a vocalist. I think she is amazing - otherwordly. Perhaps this is informed by the lyrics of her songs but nevertheless her singing send chills up my spine. Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 03:53:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: You guys are a terrible (WONDERFUL!) influence!! (NJC) Wow. How cool Ashara! Ashara said: If you want me from now on, I'll be at Club Passim. (How the HELL did it take me 23 years to get there?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:58:49 +0800 (PHT) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Robben v Robin and then Elizabeth NJC I agree. She's one of the few vocalists who can really send chills in one's spine. I have only VICTORIALAND and TREASURE and I love the uniqueness of the two albums. Les, I know one person in another discussion list who is so acerbic, racist, sexist, self-important, arrogant, brutish, crude, but very very intelligent and despite his (in)famous rantings (which are always very literate and informed), he occasionally let us in on his favorites (movies, actor, composer, writer, etc). Anyway he said there are only two singers he liked. Really really liked. We were so curious because even in his most incendiary posts, there is an irresistible something about this guy that we can't quite place. Later, when pressed, he said its Tracey Thorn (of Everything But the Girl) and Liz Fraser of Cocteau Twins. Some Listers later admitted to purchasing these vocalists if only for this character. Talking about influence in a different way. Joseph np: Rosemary Clooney "Mothers and Daughters" album On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Ross, Les wrote: > Robin Guthrie plays on most (all) of the Cocteau's albums. Sorry if this has > already been covered. I just rescued a heap of my older CDs from a recent > visit to the family home and finding the Cocteau Twins music made me wonder > what I was thinking of leaving them in deep store all this time. > > I wonder what the List's view is of Elizabeth Fraser as a vocalist. I think > she is amazing - otherwordly. Perhaps this is informed by the lyrics of her > songs but nevertheless her singing send chills up my spine. > > Les (London) > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:53:32 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: NJC: Stacey, Teddy and Maddy Sounds like a kiddies bedtime story! Anyway, I thought I'd get through some NJC stuff in one post... Kate B wrote: << However, one of them who you may have heard of is Stacey Earle (Steve's brother). I have Simple Gearle which I love. She has a new one out which I intend to get when she comes back this way next month. Stacey has got the great Earle songwriting genes for sure! >> Yeah, Stacey is great! I've seen her a couple of times over the last year and a half, and she's a total charmer: great songs, strong, quirky singing, a lovely, obviously self-taught guitar technique, and an obvious love for what she does - she's obviously enjoying every second. She has also mastered the art of Incorporating A Somewhat Less Gifted Husband into the set (a specialised art, to be sure, but one which Aimee Mann hasn't quite cracked yet :-) in a way that plays to his strengths and doesn't unbalance the whole set. Mark Stuart does a little warm up set and then plays guitar with her and sings BVs. One word of warning: the second album isn't nearly as good as the first. Simple Gearle is excellent, full of great songs with nary a duff track; Dancin' With Them That Brung Me (yeuch, dreadful title!) is a curate's egg at best. Thanks to Debra for the info about Teddy Thompson - I haven't heard a peep about the album here, which seems odd - why do we Brits always have to wait for things?! I must check out that website, as it may confirm that Linda is indeed singing on the record. My two penn'orth about Madonna: regardless of what exactly her physical contributions to her songs and records is, and I think it's fairly substantial, there's no mistaking, for me, the unmistakable stamp of her personality on all her records. They are Madonna records, and they sound the way they sound because of her. I've never seen or heard any quote of hers claiming to be a musician, but my understanding is that she does have a rudimentary/working knowledge of keyboard and guitar (in fact I'm pretty sure that she's credited with "additional keyboards" on Like A Prayer). There's good stuff on all her albums, and I think Like A Prayer is a great piece of work: not only are the singles classics, but there are some other outstanding songs, particularly Till Death Us Do Part, Promise To Try and Oh Father. I would also like to venture the suggestion that Erotica will come to recognised as one of her best albums. Azeem in London NP: Christine Collister - Blue Aconite (her version of Richard Thompson's Can't Win, actually!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:30:52 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Wang Chung/Cars In 1983 I saw Wang Chung in concert in Greensboro, N.C. They sounded pretty good. But the next band blew them away...the Cars. They were machine like in their presentation. I was saddened to read on line mail that Benjamin Orr had died of pancreatic cancer. Is this confirmed? The next night at the same venue I saw our olympic basketball team play an exhibition game. The coach? Bobby Knight. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:26:46 +0800 (PHT) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Billy Elliot (NJC) Just watched the film BILLY ELLIOT and was blown away by such a small movie with a big heart. I am always fascinated by coming-of-age European movies (Truffaut's 400 Blows come to mind right away), but this film is simply incredible! I hope this gets wider release. I understand the original title in Europe was DANCER, but I think the switch to BILLY ELLIOT is more apt. Jamie Bell as the wannabe ballet dancer in a mining town is phenomenally gifted (what is it about European, most especially French, child actors that are ALWAYS precocious in films!). Julie Walters is also good (a far cry from her EDUCATING RITA role) and the actor who played the father, brother and grandmother were consistently good. I don't really shed tears in movies ... alright I cried in SHADOWLANDS, PRIEST and MARVIN'S ROOM, but this one made me cry without me knowing copious tears are already in my cheeks. I hope this gets remembered in the BAFTA and Oscars March 2001. Joseph (also a Cate Blanchett fan) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 06:21:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Kathy Lee's crap (NJC) Dottie wrote: > Some overlooked crap: "Afternoon Delight" > by???, "Run, Joey,Run," by????, "You Light Up My > Life," by Debs Boone, "Me So Horney," by????, I'm embarrassed to admit that I know these things but can't seem to help sharing ... "Afternoon Delight" by the Starland Vocal Band ... "Me So Horny" by 2 Live Crew. Crap, fer sure. Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:22:24 EDT From: HanknBG@aol.com Subject: Madonna (njc) << I seem to remember that she cowrote songs with a guy named Patrick (forget the last name). Does she still? >> Kate, Patrick Leonard co-wrote songs with Madonna on "Like a Prayer." Madonna plays drums, keyboards and guitars (I imagine badly as she never plays on her albums). She writes the lyrics to her songs but not the music. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:29:57 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: The next video tape tree Lots of people have e-mailed me lately about the next video tape tree that was promised by September, which will include the tape of the Mendel show. Simon has climbed on board with this project, and I am waiting for him to get back to me. The upside of this collaboration is that the quality will be better, hopefully including titles for each segment, which I do not have the ability to do. The downside is that this project is taking much longer than I had anticipated. It was my desire to get this video into everyone's hands right after Saskatoon. Please be patient, as I think the wait will be well worth it. Sorry for the delay. In the meantime, anyone who does not have the first video tree, volumes 1 & 2, or a copy of A Day in the Garden, and would like them, please contact me. You can find out more about the video tree by going to the JMDL main page (www.jmdl.com) and click on tape trading. Also....anyone who would like a free program from the BSN concerts from this spring, please let me know. I still have a BSN hat from the same tour that I would really, really love to sell, and just recoup my money if anyone is interested. $27 plus shipping. That's it for now. Still glowing after the Club Passim concert last night. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:35 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Teddy Thompson njc In a message dated 10/5/00 2:23:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << on the Richard Thompson list, with mostly favorable comments and reviews, although when compared to his dad (hard to avoid that apparently) Teddy's considered a lightweight by some, not as impressive a guitarist and having a more romantic gentle attitude than his father does. >> this does not surprise me at all, ..not in the least. if richard thompson had a twin brother who looked, played, and sang exactly like him, they'd tear him apart on his list. that is the most dedicated, singular fan base i have come across so far. of course, i'm not telling debra anything new, and there are some very good people on that list. but for the sake of our list, i sometimes wake up and check my email and think....oh jesus, thank you god there's none of those f-ugly richard thompson emails coming in anymore. some of them were down right mean. they made paul i (no offense, paul...you know i love you ) look sweet and gentile. maybe, with that last nastyass post someone put up behind relayer's white house trip...maybe...that was getting close to the tone of a significant part of his fan base. but not really because that guy was no where near as smart as some of them are on that list, and when you combine their brain power with their meanness...you get a frightening result. i remain monogolisted. patrick np. dmb - behind these crowded streets ------------------------------ Date: 5 Oct 00 09:44:47 EDT From: Jeff Clark Subject: Re: Kathie Lee's Circle Game <> I actually did look to see if this was already listed on your Covers site, but just looked under "The Circle Game" -- didn't think to look under "Born For You" Guess I shouldn't underestimate the thoroughness of a World Class Music Slut! (kidding) Jeff -- contemplating Kathie Lee's next Joni cover -- Coyote?? ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:47:11 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) I wish that this subject hadnt come up. Its such a bottomless pit of intriguing thought but it is a question that I always wanted to ask a group like this list. American films are like American culture, big, bawdy, and brainnumbing. They are also filled with lame political statements but thats not the subject. the fact is I have always liked foreign films better than the Blockbusters produced in the USA. Foreign films here are different. If the film isnt good it wont get anything. While American films inevitably must have (a) a chase scene (b) a disrobed actress (c) something awful and gruesome happen; foreign films have intricate and interesting stories that one can imagine oneself actually being involved in a similar situation. So in appreciation of foreign films I pose the following question. Q. What is the best foreign film or top 5 foreign films you have ever seen. Please explain without divulging anything that might ruin it for the subsequent viewer. Im going to nominate the following three (1) Diva : begins with a scene at an opera house and right off the bat I experienced just about the most beautiful song I have ever heard in my whole life. Is about a bootlegged tape of this performance of this soprano and the people trying to get their hands on it. Rich with scenes of Paris and a perfect capsule of the early sixties in style. (2) Pather Panchali : An indian movie I was "forced" to watch by an english teacher in high school. As all Indian movies are it was long but by the time it was over I was exhausted with all the trials that this family goes through. Life in India portrayed through the eyes of a child. Hypnotic in that you want to stop watching but you just cant. (3) Kolya : More or less a story that has been done before in various forms about the grumpy man (in this case a concert cellist) who is through circumstance forced to babysit a child and of course comes to bond with the child in a special way. the editing is absolutely incredible as scenes from the Russian invasion of Poland serve as a running backdrop throughout the film and serve to demonstrate how the normal persons lives were affected by the reality of occupation. Sounds bland but is anything but. (4) Shall We Dance: Japanese film about an accountant who (against all cultural mores) takes dancing lessons to spice up his boring life. I have always hated dancing since Sister Bridgett made me dance with a girl who was twice my size in 5th grade. I was DRAGGED to this movie but I just loved it. (5) Cinema Paradiso: In a small town in Sicily there is a small boy who loves to go to the only place in town that has any life whatsoever which is the old movie house. A local Priest censors all the scenes of "questionable" moral content out of the films prior to screening for the community. Ultimately the small boy grows up to be a famous film producer so the film is actually flashbacks to his youth. The ending is as subtle as a whisper but hits you like a brick. [[bonus mention]] (6) The Red Baloon: For those who have smaller children this is an old classic you can watch with them ..It still has the best Paris street scenes in film. A big bonus, there is ZERO dialogue. The entire film proceeds in silence except for the sounds of the city. I may think of more but hopefull this will get the ball rolling. My hope is that people will turn me and others on to some great films I have never seen. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Oct 00 10:22:10 EDT From: Jeff Clark Subject: Old interviews with musicians <> (Regarding Joni on Judy Garland) That article is kind of a co-interview with Cassandra Wilson from DownBeat- December, 1996 called "Alternate Tunings" It's on JMDL and is quite a good article as it is all about music. I think she describes Judy as a "belter" and says she isn't sure if she likes that style of singing. Anyway since it is so damn slow at work I just reread Cameron Crowes interview from RS available on the Joni Mitchell.com page. From there, there are links to more of Camerons interviews from the 70's. In particular, I enjoyed reading the Led Zeppelin interview from 1975. Included are some cool comments by Page on Joni: "Every musician wants to do something of lasting quality, something which will hold up for a long time and I guess we did it with "Stairway."[...] I don't know whether I have the ability to come up with more. I have to do a lot of hard work before I can get anywhere near those stages of consistent, total brilliance. I don't think there are too many people who are capable of it. Maybe one. Joni Mitchell. That's the music that I play at home all the time, Joni Mitchell. Court and Spark I love because I'd always hoped that she'd work with a band. But the main thing with Joni is that she's able to look at something that's happened to her, draw back and crystalize the whole situation, then write about it. She brings tears to my eyes, what more can I say? It's bloody eerie. I can relate so much to what she says. "Now old friends are acting strange/They shake their heads/They say I've changed." I'd like to know how many of the original friends any well-known musician has got. You'd be surprised. They think -particularly that thing of change -they all assume that you've changed. For the worse. There are very few people I can call real, close friends. They're very, very precious to me. " This interview was really quite interesting and had pretty intelligent insights on living life from Page and Plant. Basically on taking chances and doing work that makes you happy, things I am thinking about. I'm amazed that Plant was only 26 years old in 1975! Such fine, upstanding young men! And of course everyone knows the lovely "Going to California" is a thinly veiled homage to La Mitchell. Jeff -- recalling "Honk if you love Led Zeppelin" bumper sticker on first car. Also hoping boss isn't secret, closet Joni "lurker". ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:37:20 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: kd in the uk (NJC) I went to see kd lang's show at the Brighton Centre a couple of nights ago. She got a huge ovation from the predominantly lesbian audience but didn't really impress me, especially not with her newer material. "Crying" and "Constant Craving" were the high points for me, although, to be fair, I'm not very familiar with her new album. Her support band included Greg Leisz who kd credited with bringing the steel guitar to a new level and, perhaps of interest to Joni fans, she wore bare feet! Thanks to Marion and Colin for the tip-off about the possible feature of Joni on Sky next Sunday. I'll be watching! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:40:08 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Tell The Truth (NJC) Hey, Clark, great to see you on TV! I have just one question for you... *DO* you check your bags??? :) - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 07:43:38 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: LPs (NJC) Cassy wrote: >I still have almost 2,000 LPs and I play >some of them regularly especially those I can't replace on CD like Terry >Reid's "River" and Phil Ochs "Pleasures of the Harbor" I was listening to my vinyl copy of "Pleasures" last night! I'm reading the Ochs biography "There But For Fortune" (which has some snippets of Joni content) and needed a fix of his music. >NP Jimmie Dale Gilmore "Spinning Around the Sun" And what a terrific album THAT is..."babe, you're not the wave, you're just the water..." - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:58:31 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Some Joni trivia Nope, never heard that one before and not sure if I buy it completely. That is, unless it was edited to misquote Cash. When this story took place, there was no Joni Mitchell. She was Roberta Joan Anderson, or Joan Anderson, or perhaps even Joni Anderson. Chuck provided the Mitchell part when Joni was no longer eligible to become 'Toon teen queen. Perhaps it happened, but when she assumed the title, her name wasn't Joni Mitchell but was "to become" Joni Mitchell. Sorry to nit pick, but isn't that what trivia is? CC "I'm not ready to change my name again." -- JM _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:06:21 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Madonna (njc) All of this is true, except the she doesn't write the music part. She indeed writes many or most of her melodies, according to interviews with her co-producers and -writers, and as is discernable from listening to those melodies and, especially, countermelodies throughout her career with various collaborators. Repeating something I posted earlier, just in case some missed it. :-) Also, she's worked with P. Leonard quite a bit, not just on LAP. Off the top of my head, I remember "Gambler" as being credited solely to her, and know there are a couple earlier ones. I'll look into those when I have a chance and pass along the info. Incidentally, the "Gambler" solo writing job confirms my argument above, in my mind, because its catchy melody is characteristically Maddie, and it bears a strong bridge countermelody as well. Most of you likely haven't heard this tune, a non-single from the _Vision Quest_ soundtrack. Personally, I love it! - --M NP: Common, _Like Water for Chocolate_ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place But then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace." - --Common, "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" On Thu, 5 Oct 2000 HanknBG@aol.com wrote: > > << I seem to remember that she cowrote songs with a guy named Patrick (forget > the last name). Does she still? >> > > Kate, Patrick Leonard co-wrote songs with Madonna on "Like a Prayer." > Madonna plays drums, keyboards and guitars (I imagine badly as she never > plays on her albums). She writes the lyrics to her songs but not the music. > > Chris > ------------------------------ Date: 5 Oct 00 11:43:16 EDT From: Jeff Clark Subject: On Madonna <> Another sham I would have to say. I can still see her picture on the cover of Rolling Stone in her "mystical pose" with those cold, calculating eyes and all her yoga trappings. Being able to work your body into advanced poses and yakking about Indian gurus dosen't make one spiritual. You can tell just by looking at her she dosen't have a clue, it was just the latest calulated persona to put out there. All about fashion. Someone who really practices yoga and understands it has a softness and aura about them that is polar opposite from Madonna. Think Trudy Styler (Sting's wife). This dosen't mean I don't think Madonna is great at times. While I personally thought "Ray of Light" was so overrated (she sounds like she has a cold), "Erotica" is the one I really like. Not sure why that one was so overlooked. I think it came out the same time as that truly awful "Sex" book that was a huge mistake, and people just lumped them together as Madonna's first Big Miss. But the themes that were in such poor taste in the book worked quite well on Erotica I thought--a very HOT record that flows from song to song nicely. And I enjoy listening to the Immaculate Collection when cleaning the house. Jeff ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:54:11 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) I like all sorts of films. I like American 'blockbusters'(some of them) and I also like British films. I don't think all American films are as you describe: Ordianry people, Steel Magnolias come to mind. Also Rosewood. Contact is one of my favourite films. Erin whatsername. Of the Blockbusters I liked the first Indiana Jones movie, Closee Encouters, ET, Armageddon. The Hall mark Channel has some good American drama. So i don't thibnk all American movies are the 'wham bam thanyou maam' type. And I don't think all British or European films are brilliant. La Cage au Fa....(can't spell it), the French one, was excellent, the US version Birdcage was dire. The Australian, The Advetnures Of Priscilla Queen Of The Desert was excellent, the uS To Wong Foo was awful and a rip off BUT Swayze was really good in it and so was the little guy. Snipes was terrible-he pl,ayed it like he was taking the piss. Secrets and Lies was excellent. Four Weddings and Notting Hill were fun and tho ritish, were 'american' in style. I guess it all comes down to taste. I don't think American films are all bad and shallow nor do I think all brit films are good and deep! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:50:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Banquet" - --- Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > > One of my favorite Joni songs is "Banquet",the > first song on FTR.The song > really sais so much about life on earth in this day > and age.Does anyone else > love this song? It's a great song. My daughter was working on science project (I think it was science - maybe it was some other subject!) They were supposed to create a cartoon-strip with appropriate music for each part of the cartoon strip. Her subject was cheetahs, as they happen to be her favourite animal. The action consisted of a hungry cheetah out prowling for food, that comes across a zebra, which she attacks and kills and brings home to her family to eat. Blood and gore and all that - cripes, the kids today! Sarah was looking for appropriate music for each scene and for the cheetah-lets eating zebra, all I could think of was "Come to the dinner gong/ Table is laden high/ Fat bellies and hungry little ones/ Tuck your napkin in and take your share". I just couldn't bring myself to do it though, so I kept my mouth shut. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:59:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Madonna NJC - --- Kate Bennett wrote: >I agree with > you that of her hits, > Live to Tell was wonderful. I guess I am someone who > neither loves nor hates > Madonna, sometimes I cringe, sometimes I am > fascinated. > You've summed up my feelings on Madonna better than I could do myself. I agree on "Live to tell" - this is a great song (IMO, but of course!). I almost bought "Ray of light", but never got around to it, la-di-dah. As of now, I don't own any Madonna music at all. Doesn't it seem like a really short time-span between Ray of Light and the latest? Maybe with two babes to feed, Madonna needs more cash (?) I will now 'fess up: I like "Get in the groove". I know it's pretty cheesy, but it's got a nice beat and you can dance to it. A friend of mine translated it into Latin for a project he did in school. I never did find out how he translated "groove". _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:04:50 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: Subject: Re: Patricia Barber (NJC) > Julius wrote: I'm looking forward to seeing Patricia in San Francisco > Sorry, I was out of town, catching up again, so this thread is a week old! Patricia Barber is one of Chicago' musical treasures. If anyone plans to come to Chicago or lives here and has not caught Ms. Barber's act, it's not to be missed. She plays almost exclusively at the Green Mill, which is a landmark itself. It is an old gangster speakeasy/nightclub. Playing late Sunday night sets, where earlier in the evening the Marc Smith Poetry Slam has take place. He may have been one of the most influential in bring poetry back to the beat scene, so to speak Anyway, my point is if you come to Chicago, put the Green Mill on your list of things to do - on a night when Patricia Barber is on the bill. It is a smoky old room that just puts you in the mood. If there is ever a Joni fest in Chicago, this could definitely be one of the field trips! Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:22:21 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Linda Thompson NJC AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Thanks to Debra for the info about Teddy Thompson - I haven't heard a peep > about the album here, which seems odd - why do we Brits always have to wait > for things?! I must check out that website, as it may confirm that Linda is > indeed singing on the record. Hi Azeem, Don't know whether Linda is singing on Teddy's new cd, but there have been some hints on the RT list about Linda doing a new cd of her own. RT's drummer mentioned on his homepage that he was doing studio work for Linda, and Teddy mentioned in one of his interviews that she's going to bring out a new cd soon. That would be great news for Linda fans, so if I hear any more, I'll let you know. I'm surprised, though, that you Brits don't get the word first about the Thompsons. So many of the people on the RT list are British it seems that's where the most solid fanbase is, so it seems that's where the most news would be too. At least you were able to get an "advance" copy. The duets with his dad that I've heard are sublime and, after reading many descriptions, including yours, think I'll get Teddy's debut myself and actually listen to what all the talk is about. :-) Debra Shea P.S. Hope you're enjoying yourself in your current "no longer in a 12-year job" state (in among the worry about mortgage payments and deep breathing, of course). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:16:18 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: Garland & singers (NJC) Well, I don't recall saying Madonna is *merely* a vocalist-- if I did say that word, I certainly didn't mean it in a belittling way. I'm just saying that maybe if we look at Madonna as a vocalist and not a singer/songwriter, we may be able to understand her a bit better. The influence on her by her producers is astounding-- enough to make or break a project, IMO. As for Judy Garland-- a good overview of her work is the Capitol Masters release "Judy Garland: The London Sessions." The Carnegie concert is excellent as well-- but all her standards are on the London CD. You really ought ot have both-- the live disc really gets to express her stage presence-- her charisma. And once you recognize that-- you can hear it in every note she sings. eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Mark or Travis Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 10:04 PM To: Jeff Clark; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Garland & singers (NJC) Also remember in a Joni interview in DownBeat where she said that > Charles Mingus' favorite singer was Judy Garland, to which she expressed > surprise, thinking his favorite singers would probably have been Bessie Smith > or Billie. Anyway I thought I would look thru Judy Garlands section and > perhaps pick up something (I think Live at Carnegie Hall is definitive, > right?). I'll have to look that article up. Live at Carnegie Hall isn't just a recording. It's a record of a phenomenon - the Garland concert. I just read a bio of Judy recently that describes that performance as the closest thing to perfection any entertainer has ever achieved. I don't know that I'd go that far but one thing is evident from listening to that record: audiences responded to Garland in a way that few entertainers ever experience. There is deafening applause from the moment she hits the stage that lasts for a inordinate amount of time. Toward the end of the concert when she tells the audience that there are only two songs that the orchestra has left to play, there are many shouts of 'do 'em both!' She does after asking 'Do you really want more, aren't you tired?' and getting a resounding 'NO!' from the audience. The final roaring ovation goes on & on & on. Apparently this was not uncommon at one of her concerts. If you do buy this, get the 2 cd version and avoid the edited single disk version. The 2 cd set has some chatter & a couple of stories from Judy that weren't on the original vinyl. Some of the songs are actually cut from the single disk. Shades of Shadows & Light (and Judy Conquering, not Scarlett). I got to thinking about somebody's comment about Madonna's being 'just a good vocalist'. Opinions about Madonna aside, I feel like I have to examine that statement a bit if not downright take issue with it. I was listening to Emmylou Harris's 'Wrecking Ball' on the way home from work when that post popped into my head. Up until her most recent effort, Emmylou has been mostly a covers artist. Certainly Daniel Lanois' production of 'Wrecking Ball' is a large part of what makes it so wonderful and I believe it to be one of the best recordings of the 90s. But I think it would be wrong to downplay the part that Emmylou's vocals play in creating the beauty of WB. A top drawer vocalist can illuminate & even improve the material they are performing. In the case of WB, there was also some top drawer material but Emmylou's vocal interpretations put every track into another realm. Her singing is the raison d'etre for all the beautiful playing & production on Wrecking Ball, imo. Ever since people like Joni, Dylan, Lennon & McCartney, Carole King, James Taylor, Carly Simon and others came on the scene, writing the material has almost seemed to be a requirement for any singer that wants to be taken seriously. But not everybody who can sing can write. Some, like Emmylou, have managed to carve their own niche but they have to be damn good to do it and have excellent taste in the material they choose to perform. But to say someone is 'merely a vocalist' seems to me to be belittling and wrong. Would you call Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, Dusty Springfield, Barbra Streisand, Judy Garland, Patsy Cline, Linda Ronstadt, Emmylou Harris, k d lang, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, Johnny Hartman or Janis Joplin merely vocalists just because they don't (or don't always, in the case of k d) write their own material? I love Joni & have the profoundest respect for anybody who can write & perform good music. But I think a great singer deserves their due as well. Joni herself has pointed out that pop music used to be much more compartmentalized in the production of songs. There was a writer and a lyricist and a singer and they were very rarely all the same person at one point in time. Sometimes those collaborations produced some wonderful results. And sometimes the singer made the song whether he or she wrote it or not. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:39:07 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Madonna NJC Catherine wrote: > Doesn't it seem like a really short time-span between > Ray of Light and the latest? Maybe with two babes to > feed, Madonna needs more cash (?) It's a very short interval relevant to current corporate pop practices. Back in the '70s artists often released an album a year (Joni's own catalog testifies to that). Now they're pressured to mete them out slowly, milking each release for maximum sales w/o competing with themselves. (FWIW, the model is somewhat different in hip-hop and guaranteed to sell teen-pop acts.) So Madonna's acutally BUCKING a commercial trend in this case. Of course, being Madonna, she cannot win for losing in the court of public opinion. Another gentle reminder to those not posting about Joni: NJC please (this specific post wasn't the offender; just wanted to mention it). Madonna topics have historically been about as controversial as gay/queer ones to those not interested in reading them. Now isn't that an interesting coincidence? [evil grin] - --Michael NP: Prince, _For You_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:50:34 -0400 From: dsk Subject: RT List NJC (was Teddy Thompson) Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > this does not surprise me at all, ..not in the least. if richard thompson > had a twin brother who looked, played, and sang exactly like him, they'd > tear him apart on his list. that is the most dedicated, singular fan base i > have come across so far. > ...when you combine their brain power with their meanness...you > get a frightening result. Hey, hey, hey, wait just a minute here! So you didn't have a good time on that list, huh? Well, just so you know, you were there at an unusually rough time. Since the list has moved to a new host, some people haven't shown up yet, including the most curmudgeonly one who always had something negative to say (and who, surprisingly, was often supported by others on the list). It's been a very pleasant place in the last few months. In addition to learning about RT, I've learned about lots of new music (tending toward folk music, rather than toward jazz as on this list), and now that I know some of the people on the RT list, feel a need to balance your post with a much more positive view. It is a little intimidating to be a new Richard Thompson fan on a list where many people have been fans for decades, but I was welcomed and treated warmly from the start and my knowledge and love of Joni has always been appreciated by the RT listers. So, it's unfortunate you had such a bad time on that list, but that's not the whole story. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:47:00 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Paul Simon (NJC) Even though Paul Simon's new cd "You're the One" wasn't on my list of 5 recent purchases, it is now! I've listened to it three times now, and all I can say to any Paul Simon fan is BUY IT!!!! I won't give too much of a review of "You're the One". I'll let you professionals do that. :~), but I will say that it still carries the world beat rhythms which were used on "Graceland" and "Rhythm of the Saints". IMO Paul Simon does not have a strong or even a beautiful voice. What I like so much about Simon's voice is I find it to be soothing. I don't know if any of you would describe one of your favorite singer's voices as "soothing", but it's the word that comes to my mind. I'm looking forward to reading more opinions on "You're the One". Have a great day everyone! Jimmy- who likes Madonna's "Music" because I just do! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:02:21 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Some Joni trivia c Karma wrote: > Nope, never heard that one before and not sure if I buy it completely. That > is, unless it was edited to misquote Cash. When this story took place, > there was no Joni Mitchell. She was Roberta Joan Anderson, or Joan > Anderson, or perhaps even Joni Anderson. Chuck provided the Mitchell part > when Joni was no longer eligible to become 'Toon teen queen. Perhaps it > happened, but when she assumed the title, her name wasn't Joni Mitchell but > was "to become" Joni Mitchell. Sorry to nit pick, but isn't that what > trivia is? I do buy it because it explains how Joni got onto the Johnny Cash Show. Yes, she's extraordinarily talented but I never understood how she ended up on a country singer's show, so this explains it. Johnny probably heard good things about her, but he also already knew her (and personal connections count for A LOT in every business). As far as the name thing, this was a reminiscence, not an "at the moment" report, so the fact that Johnny remembered her as Joni Mitchell years after she was on his show (using the name Joni Mitchell), makes sense to me. Plus, I don't know why Johnny Cash or an editor would make up such a story. It's possible, of course, but why bother? It's not as though there's a need in a book about Memphis music to please Joni Mitchell fans. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:32:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Madonna NJC Hasn't it been at least two years sinvce ROL? It certainly came out whilst I was living in Londond and that was more than 18 mths ago now. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:27:12 -0700 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Definition of "Coyote" (NJC) I have been receiving e-mail newsletters from an internet site called ediets.com which contain numerous motivational articles, etc. One doctor who writes a regular column called Coyote Wisdom is a Dr. Matthew Anderson. At the beginning of each article there is a blurb which states: "A 'coyote' is a person who has learned the hard lessons of life and has grown from mistakes and difficulties. A coyote cuts through confusion and phoniness with heartfelt honesty, never pulls punches and always makes room for compassion ..." I thought it was a very interesting quote (he doesn't state where it comes from) in light of Joni's song and Joni in general. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:39:43 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:You guys are a terrible (WONDERFUL!) influence!! (NJC) Ashara this was such a nice message to post on the list:-) I'm glad you had a good night- wish i could have been there. You see, it *is* good to break the rules once in a while!! Sam Shaber is certainly a cool personality; did you purchase her newest cd? her first has been re-released i believe. i still intend to order them through folkweb or some such site.... it's almost next on that ever growing list of things to do! did you explain to her about JMDL? I've included details of her upcoming performances: Fri. 10/6: Bridgeport, CT: Acoustic Cafe Indiegrrl Show with Edie Carey, Anne Heaton, Marina Vittoria, & Bari Koral. 2926 Fairfield Ave., 203-335-FOLK Tue. 10/10: New York City, NY: Bitter End Indiegrrl Show with Edie Carey, Anne Heaton, & Bari Koral 147 Bleecker St., 212-673-7030 show starts 7:30pm Wed. 10/11: Bronxville, NY: Sarah Lawrence Indiegrrl Show with Edie Carey, Anne Heaton, & Bari Koral Risinger Auditorium 7:30pm Fri. 10/13: Columbia, MD: Folkal Point opening for the great VANCE GILBERT! Oliver's Carriage House, 5410 Leaf Trader Way www.serve.com/folkalpoint Sat. 10/14: Northampton, MA: Northampton Folk Festival I'll be at Fire & Water with Anne Heaton and more! 2:30pm 5 Old South St., 413-586-8336 Tue. 10/17: New York City, NY: The Dalton School Goin' back to high school! This is not open to the public, but since it's at 9am, the public probably is okay with that... Thu 10/19: Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Noyes Center on West Campus at 8pm Fri 10/20: Ithaca, NY: Cornell University RPCC on North Campus at 8pm Wed. 10/25: Pittsburgh, PA: Rosebud Indiegrrl Show with Lis Harvey and more! 1650 Smallman St., 412-261-0789 Fri. 10/27: Troy, NY: Mother's Wine Emporium on the RPI campus, Rensselaer Union, 518-276-85854 GARRET (still smiling after reading Ashara's wonderful story, and Sam Shaber remembers me- LOL) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:24:52 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Some Joni trivia Debra and CC - Somewhere on either the JMDL video tree Johnny Cash show segments or on some cuts off a recording sent to me, there is indeed chatter between Joni and Johnny about him meeting her years before in Saskatoon in connection with the contest when she was still Roberta Joan Anderson. I'll hunt around for it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:23:46 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Billy Elliot & Foreign Films (NJC) (md) Further to Colin's post, I don't think it's all that clear-cut. Yes, a lot of US film are formulaic, but equally many UK films (especially in the last 2 or 3 years) have been dire. Too much Lottery-funded indulgence and obsession with the seedier, nasty side of life. Poor writing and cliched characters are as much a failing with British films as anywhere else in the world. Perhaps we like whatever is the opposite of (or different to) our own circumstances and geographic location. Personally, I'm more likely to be interested in a good US film than a British one, because the style and content of most UK movies is - to me - dreadfully dull and often plain stupid. There are exceptions, of course, and there are indeed many equally dumb American films. It's just from my standpoint, the ratio of good to bad is healthier from the US. Even my favourite TV shows are American...Buffy, Roswell High, SG-1, (early) Friends, Dharma & Greg. Mainland Europe, on the other hand, seems to produce some wonderful and imaginative films on a regular basis. I'm especially partial to modern world cinema, with at least three-dozen in my collection. To answer Marcel's question, here are my Top 5 Foreign Films : 1. Three Colours : Red The final part of Kyzslowski's brillaintly evocative and poetic trilogy about fate, destiny and love. The score is exquisite, as is Irene Jacob's poignant performance. 2. Taxi! Recent Luc Besson-produced auto thriller which speeds along at a sensational pace. It's also the funniest film I've seen a long while, the dialogue is wonderful. 3. Run Lola Run Another fairly new film, from Germany. A woman tries to stop her boyfriend getting into trouble with his gangster-type boss, but she needs to find £100,000 in 20 minutes. The story is told thrice over, in real-time, with a different outcome on each occasion. Brilliantly executed, and full of tension. Called Lola Rennt in some countries. 4. Manon Des Sources The sequel to Jean De Florette, in which the impossibly gorgeous Emanuelle Beart sets out to exact revenge on the men who destroyed her father. 5. L'Appartement As you can see, I am a sucker for films that deal in coincidence, time-frame distortion and fate. This is a complex, involving story that switches back and forth in both time and perspective. Narrowing it down to just the five was tough. No room at the inn for : The Horseman On The Roof, Un Coeur En Hiver, Les Amants Du Pont Neuf, La Femme Nikita or Three Colours Blue. Jason. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #530 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?