From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #507 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Thursday, September 21 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 507 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni's melisma? [Robert Holliston ] melisma njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: kitties NJC! [Susan McNamara ] Re: HOSL and blindness ["Diane Evans" ] Re: Stevie Wonder ["Victor Johnson" ] Fwd: Re: Stevie Wonder [Susan McNamara ] Re: melisma njc [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Re: Stevie Wonder ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC ["Mark or Travis"] too young to die young ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Stevie Wonder (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Stevie Wonder [michael w yarbrough ] Re: kitties NJC! [Don Rowe ] died too young (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Stevie Wonder/singer-songwriters. [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Stevie Wonder NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Stevie Wonder/singer-songwriters. ["Patricia O'Connor" ] DVD Decor etcNJC [catman ] Pardon? [catman ] MP3 FTP site? [Andy Baio ] Re: joni's melisma? [FredNow@aol.com] Stevie Wonder (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: test your geojoniography trivia acumen [Mark Domyancich ] Re: MP3 FTP site? [Mark Domyancich ] Re: test your geojoniography trivia acumen [michael w yarbrough ] Re: MP3 FTP site? [Andy Baio ] Re: Stevie Wonder (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC [Andy Baio ] re. Died too young (NJC) ["Steve" ] Re: test your geojoniography trivia acumen [Dottie Hinkel ] Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC [Mark Domyancich ] RE: melisma njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Fw: Stevie Wonder (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC [Andy Baio ] NJC - Brian Wilson [steve@torchsongs.com] Re: re. Died too young (NJC) [JRMCo1@aol.com] Neil Young Bridge Benefit (NJC) [JRMCo1@aol.com] NJC - Brian Wilson [steve@torchsongs.com] Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC [Patti Haskins ] Re: Pardon? [Jason Maloney ] Re: DVD Decor etcNJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: today and in a few hours (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:48:20 -0700 From: Robert Holliston Subject: Re: joni's melisma? Yup, it's called a melisma, and Joni does it a lot - there's a particularly juicy one in Otis and Marlena. We already know Joni's charismatic, now we know she's melismatic ;-) roberto Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > I really know very,very little about the technical aspects of > music,but I love the way Joni sounds when she sings a word or a syllable,and > her voice goes up and down on that one word and syllable.For example when she > sings "sign off prayer" on "You turn me on I'm a radio" on FTR,her voice goes > up and down on the first sylllable of "sign off".and when she sings "the > wires and the walls are humming" on "Edith and the Kingpin" on HOSL,her voice > goes up and down on the word "humming".Is this called melisma? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:39:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: melisma njc some melismatic acrobatics i CAN'T stand is whitney houston's. MAN!!!! wallyk, still up: there ought to be a law against me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:25:58 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: kitties NJC! Yes, I guess I thought you were talking about the Austin Powers cat! But I logged on to a cat breed site and when I searched for allergic the Devon Rex came up as a breed that is good for people with allergies. I'm still pondering and if I take a trip to the local pet shelter, I'm sure I'll come home with a beauty, even if I do sneeze!! :-) I'll let you know how things progress. take care, sue >I told Sue about the hairless breeds but I think she thought I was >pulling her leg. Sphinx >are tremendous characters and just adroable. Like ET in suede. Feel >hot too. However, if >you live in a cold climate one must take care of them. Heat is important. >Devon rex are also very simliar. They have hair but hardly any and >what they do have is >curled tight. Maybe they wouldn't affect allergie sufferers. Like >people who are allergivc >to dogs are not always allergic to Poodles. ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:11:36 EST From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: HOSL and blindness Alan, You wrote: >Diane, > A few months ago I was sent a copy of the photo you are talking about. >I >can't remember, but I think it was Bruce Merril who sent me the photo. I >haven't got a copy on the computer I'm using at present, but I can send you >a copy in a couple of days if no one sends you one in the mean time. > > I would appreciate that photo. I am still searching for the copy of National Geographic that the original photo appeared in, but am afraid I'm horribly disorganized because of the move. Did you also read the accompanying article? I think it relates to some of the music on HOSL. Looking forward to hearing from you! Diane NP "Snow on the Sahara" (Anggun) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:39:28 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder > > Stevie Wonder? Absolutely. He's a musical genius. His lyrics don't approach > the eloquence of Joni's, but the force is undeniably strong with him. Look > at his body of work. > > -Julius > np: Stevie Wonder: "I Never Dreamed You'd Leave in Summer" Hi Julius, Stevie Wonder ranks very high in my book. The way he sings so effortlessly is truly amazing. And in my opinion, his lyrics are beautiful and blend perfectly with his voice. I don't think they could be anything other than what they are. So much of this is intuitive and seemingly abstract but there is a magic that takes place when the lyrics are sung to music and they are welded together. Both become something much greater together than what they are by themselves. One of the keys to writing good songs is being able to take lyrics and marry them to the right chords and melodies and vice versa. In this capacity, I believe Stevie Wonder is a musical genius. Albums like Talking Book, Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life, Where I'm Coming From contain so much brilliant material. So I would have to disagree with the statement, "if Stevie's lyrics weren't so bad I would consider him a great songwriter." As someone pointed out earlier, it is fruitless to compare all these incredible musicians to each other to decide who is the greatest. As is the case with Joni Mitchell, no one has ever written songs like Stevie Wonder and no one ever will. Taking lyrics aside and reading them as poetry is very subjective and some lyrics stand alone better than others. But within the context of his own compositions, Stevie Wonder is a master songwriter without question and in my opinion, one of the most unique along with Joni Mitchell. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:46:04 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Re: Stevie Wonder What you say here is so true, Victor. I think we are spoiled with how Joni melds her complex lyrics with the music and still makes it work. The object is to balance it so there is beauty. Stevie is a master at that, I agree. I had two other people I was thinking about this morning that do it for me, although I'm not sure how high they rank on the list: David Bowie and Al Green. If I'm feeling in love I like to love with Rev. Green!! Teach me! love, sue >Stevie Wonder ranks very high in my book. The way he sings so effortlessly >is truly amazing. And in my opinion, his lyrics are beautiful and blend >perfectly with his voice. I don't think they could be anything other than >what they are. So much of this is intuitive and seemingly abstract but >there is a magic that takes place when the lyrics are sung to music and they >are welded together. Both become something much greater together than what >they are by themselves. One of the keys to writing good songs is being able >to take lyrics and marry them to the right chords and melodies and vice >versa. In this capacity, I believe Stevie Wonder is a musical genius. >Albums like Talking Book, Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life, Where I'm >Coming From contain so much brilliant material. ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:10:51 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: melisma njc In a message dated 9/21/00 5:48:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << some melismatic acrobatics >> in an unrelated story on aol news, there were some melissa arobatics in the ethridge household as it appears that ms. cypher and ms. ethridge have split. i'm actually saddened with the news as we talked about this thread some months ago when crosby's name surfaced in the gene pool. or was it jean pool. either way, i was hoping things would work for them. as it turns out now, there may be some very confused children in the years to come. speaking of confused children, the motown M&M is being sued by his mother for.....that's right...defamation! i guess the upside for eminem is that now he doesn't have to worry about sending Mom a mother's day card. i know, i know, some listers think he's an artist. but really, when your wife attempts suicide, and your mother sues you for defamation, perhaps a little self evaluation is in order. patrick np. dmb-before these crowded streets ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:32:01 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Re: Stevie Wonder The object is to balance it so there is beauty. Stevie is a > master at that, I agree. And so is Carly Simon. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:38:52 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC > <> > So fill me in on this guy...was he a high school chum who wrote a great song, or was he the guy who wrote all those great ballads for his wife Anita, or what? > Don't know much about Boudleaux Bryant except that he wrote the song 'Devoted To You' that Carly and James remade back in the late 70s. I know he wrote a lot more stuff and I've seen the name elsewhere but that's the only one I could come up with for now. I believe he wrote a lot in the late 50s & early 60s. Marcel? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:02:00 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: too young to die young Yea, they are all good choices.. in my opinon.. Frank Zappa.. could have lived for 20 more years.. with all the compositions he could have written.. I would have loved to have seen him conducting a concert one day. Bob Marley.. You know he would have never gotten stale or swayed away for his message of love, peace, and unity, Charles Mingus.. Another composer I wish could have continued John Coltrane.. Marvin Gaye... Curtis Mayfield... (damn that faulty lighting rig!!!) Eric Dolphy Janis Joplin Jimi Tim and Jeff Buckley... and the list could go on forever... Blair _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:19:30 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder (SJC) waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: << Stevie Wonder ranks very high in my book. The way he sings so effortlessly is truly amazing. And in my opinion, his lyrics are beautiful and blend perfectly with his voice. >> I couldn't agree more Victor. Stevie's songs played a very important role in my musical upbringing. One of the first songs that I loved as a kid was "I Was Made To Love Her." I know that the lines ...."my papa disapproved it, my mamma she boo-hoo'd it" weren't the most prolific words, but it fit the song and did blend with his voice perfectly. Even Joni's line "I can't get through the day, Without at least one big boo-hoo" in Man from Mars fits perfectly in the song IMO. Not all *good* lyrics have to be so deep that an Internet discussion list is needed to interpret them, but hey what do I know ? :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:49:22 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder I love having my words taken out of context! Anyone who knows me knows I'm nuts about Stevie Wonder. He is one of the top 2 or 3 music-writers for sure. I just don't think he fit the thread of greatest-singer-songwriters-with-longevity-as-compared-to-Joni because his lyrics so often, IMO, fail to live up to the majesty of his chord changes, melodies, and performances. He has a tendency to invert predicates with subjects and adjectives with nouns for the sole purpose of achieving rhyme. Not that normal sentence structure is a prerequisite for great lyric writing (reference some Prince songs), but I think reverting to that instead of searching for an even more perfect rhyming word that enhances meaning and maintains the lyric flow, as Joni so often does seemingly effortlessly, is a better choice. One example that springs to mind from an indisputably classic song is: "Looking back on when I / was a little nappy-headed boy Then my only worry / was for Christmas what would be my toy" That last line, while not diminishing his greatness one bit, is not typical of the kind of songwriting I took the thread to be after identifying. Stevie is surely one of the great musicians of this century. I love love love love love love love him. (Is that clear? :-) ) He falls a bit short in one key aspect of *craftsmanship*, however, that disqualified him from the narrow parameters of the thread. I excluded many other greats and faves (Bowie, Madonna, to name two) for similar reasons, but I still love them, too. All that said, I have far more respect for innovation than craftsmanship, and find such exercises as that thread only useful in provoking us to think in greater detail about music. Ultimately, the most important thing is just to love the music! (And the _Music_, but more on that later...) - --Michael NP: Madonna, _Music_ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place But then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace." - --Common, "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:49:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: kitties NJC! As a die-hard cat fancier, I have to say "go for it!" I grew up around 18 lbs. of American shorthair attitude called Levinson, and have been hooked ever since. In the intervening years, I was unable to keep a feline in the close quarters of the efficiency apartments I called home. Much to my chagrin, I developed an allergic reaction to cat dander. Thought my days of "warm weight on our laps", as Garrison Keillor puts it, were through. But, I finally gave in and got two of the most remarkable Siamese I've ever owned. I lived on antihistamines for about 6 weeks, but actually became re-acclimated and now suffer no allergies from/to them at all. So again, GO FOR IT! Don Rowe ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:00:22 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: died too young (NJC) Richard Farina, Steve Goodman... - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:46:49 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder/singer-songwriters. In a message dated 9/21/00 10:54:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mwyarbro@midway.uchicago.edu writes: << Anyone who knows me knows I'm nuts about Stevie Wonder. He is one of the top 2 or 3 music-writers for sure. I just don't think he fit the thread of greatest-singer-songwriters-with-longevity-as-compared-to-Joni because his lyrics so often, IMO, fail to live up to the majesty of his chord changes, melodies, and performances. He has a tendency to invert predicates with subjects and adjectives with nouns for the sole purpose of achieving rhyme. Not that normal sentence structure is a prerequisite for great lyric writing (reference some Prince songs), but I think reverting to that instead of searching for an even more perfect rhyming word that enhances meaning and maintains the lyric flow, as Joni so often does seemingly effortlessly, is a better choice. >> I suspect that of Stevie Wonder was too concerned with sentence structure and searched for better rhyming words rather than occasionally inverting subjects with predicates and adjectives with nouns he might sound a tad pedantic to his primary audience. Now it could be contended that Joni's lyrics ARE somewhat pedantic and that she occasionally "stretches" the pronunciation of words in order to make a rhyme ("rhine wine/clandestine" stands out in my mind as a particularly atrocious example), but Joni's style of songwriting and the fact she is white allows her to get away with a bit of pedantry. One other thing: Early on in the singer-songwriter thread someone said that songwriting teams such as Lennon-McCartney were being purposely excluded from the discussion, I suppose because he or she thought that two minds gave those teams an advantage orver a lone person. Still, when I disregard all the Lennon-McCartney songs and only consider what John write by his lonesome as a solo artist, Lennon still ranks on my list as high as ANYONE, including Ms. Mitchell. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:18:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder NJC <> Eloquently stated, Michael, and I feel the same way... another example is in "Livin' For the City": "To walk to school, she's got to get up early" Never mind that he's rhyming early with dirty, I'll let that slide. But the language isn't right, it's all mix-juxtaposed...doesn't mean the song isn't brilliant, that Stevie isn't a gift to us all. He definitely is. But is he flawed as a lyricist. I think so, but it doesn't stop me from singing along and grooving with just about everything the man has ever written! I mean, if I rag Neil Diamond for writing "Songs she BRANG to me", I've gotta voice the same about Mr. Wonder. Doesn't mean I'm picky-ass looking for mistakes, but those lines are awkward and jump out at me. There's a difference between a BANAL lyric and one that defies the usage of the language... Bob NP: Prince, "PoomPoom" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:47:47 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder/singer-songwriters. From: > I suspect that of Stevie Wonder was too concerned with sentence structure and > searched for better rhyming words rather than occasionally inverting subjects > with predicates and adjectives with nouns he might sound a tad pedantic to > his primary audience. >but Joni's style of songwriting and the fact she is white >allows her to get away with a bit of pedantry This is some sort of joke right? You can't be serious. Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:28:03 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Re: Stevie Wonder/singer-songwriters. Absolutely. Another person who should have had a longer career. What a wise old grandpa John would have been. sigh. sue > Still, when I disregard all the Lennon-McCartney songs and only consider >what John write by his lonesome as a solo artist, Lennon still ranks on my >list as high as ANYONE, including Ms. Mitchell. > >Paul I ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:57:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: test your geojoniography trivia acumen What is the only State in the Union besides California mentioned in more than one Joni song? For bonus points, name the other five states (again, besides California) she names in her lyrics. Washington (as in D.C.) and New York (as in New York City) do not count. See how many you can get without peeking! The winner gets love, respect, international kudos from the JMDL, and a Pagliacci summer frock (there's one around here somewhere). Nickel Chief (with thanks to Stephen for unfolding his mental maps on this one) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:54:42 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: Re: died too young (NJC) Eva Cassidy's Songbird is indeed a fine album. i also love her "Live At Blues Alley" album. her vocals are amazing....one minuste she sings with a bluesy feel, teh next she's singing folk.....and she successfully pulls it all off. The latest album "Time After Time" is one of my favourite albums of the year. 'Tis surely a shame that she died so young. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:02:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: DVD Decor etcNJC The house is an abolute mess but at least the decor is now done-well only the bedroom and lounge. The rest will wait. The central heating is in. We bought a 32" widescreen tv. Had to take the lounge door off! Not to get it in but to be able to see it once it was! We also bought a DVD player. WOW! Concert dvd's are wonderfull. Also, you may or may not know, that due to Hollywood the wolrd is divided into 'regions' as far as DVD's are concerned. USA is region 1 and UK is region 2. UK dvd players will only play region 2. It is illegal to sell DVD discs of other regions here and also to sell players of a different region. HOWEVER, thanks to the wonderful net, I have turned my dvd player into a region free player. It will know play dvd's from anywhere in the 6 regions. It works as I have a region 1 dvd disc to play and it does! The DVD's we bought: Bette Midler -Diva Las Vegas Pet Shop Boys Live Madonna collection(2) Eurythmics Peace Lily Savage-Paying The Rent Armageddon Beautiful Thing The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen Of The Desert Muriel's Wedding The Sixth Sense Carrie Contact - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:03:36 +0100 From: catman Subject: Pardon? Looking up Joni looking for dvd's and rarities I found: The Missing of Summer (Jap. Imp.) Chinese Taxi (imp) Okay so which albums did I miss? - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:03:14 -0700 From: Andy Baio Subject: MP3 FTP site? Hi, all... I'm a newcomer to the jmdl, and happy to be here. A quick question: If I created an FTP site for all Joni fans as a place to store rare and unavailable Joni recordings in MP3 format, would you all be interested? I already have three bootlegs available and would be happy to create an account just for jmdl'ers, if there was enough interest and if everyone would be willing to contribute their bootlegs as well. It seems this would be a bit more efficient than the tape trees of yore. Any thoughts? -- Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:05:40 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's melisma? Relayer211@aol.com wrote: >I really know very,very little about the technical aspects of >music,but I love the way Joni sounds when she sings a word or a syllable,and >her voice goes up and down on that one word and syllable.For example when >she sings "sign off prayer" on "You turn me on I'm a radio" on FTR,her voice >goes up and down on the first sylllable of "sign off" ... Is this called melisma? Yes, melisma means singing more than one note per syllable. It started hundreds of years ago in plainsong chant. Joni is a great modern practitioner of it, as are Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder. R&B singers in particular have perfected the art. However, lately there seems to be a deluge of melismatic overkill as witnessed in Mariah, Christina, Whitney, Britney, Mandy, Candy, Randy, and the whole damn slew of R&B inflected singers ... way, way over the top. In melisma, as in many things in life, less is more. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:55:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Stevie Wonder (NJC) The sheer greatness and unique originality of Stevie's music and performance render the lyrics moot. In the realm of his music, you don't need a lot of words to convey the meaning and the beauty of his vision. Perfect lyrics in his songs may be an artistic distraction and could mess up a good thing. It's like an impressionistic painting. The lack of perfect, realistic brushstrokes enables one to access other dimensions of meaning in the art that may not otherwise be realized. Stevie is a stone genius. Stevie is one of the few along with Joni to receive the National Academy of Songwriters top award. The people of NAS know their stuff - they are comprised of all the top songwriters of our time. They are not the music biz bunch and do not give awards based on political or commercial reasons and their motives are fairly "pure." Becker and Fagen, who won the NAS award last year, are also music "impressionists". Their lyrics are obscure, cryptic and definitely take a back seat to the music and performance. Sometimes the words can just get in the way and that's O.K., in my opinion. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:29:11 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: test your geojoniography trivia acumen North Dakota, Florida, Tennessee, Colorado, and one more! At 2:57 PM -0400 9/21/00, Michael Bird wrote: >For bonus points, name the other five states (again, besides >California) she names in her lyrics. NP-HOSL demos, Dreamland - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:10:38 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: misc. stuff NJC Bob wrote:And my sweet Mother, although she never made any recordings, but she could play "Has Anybody Seen My Gal" on the ukelele and bring the house down... My Mom played that on the ukelele too! Kate Died too soon- don't forget Tim Buckley Re Elton John- don't think he writes any lyrics so you will have to include Bernie Taupin (sp?) if you include EJ. ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:33:19 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? No way. For one thing, when audio is converted into MP3 format some frequency is lost in the conversion. SHN is a much better format. It may be more efficient than tape trees but also no one will trade for MP3 sourced shows. Also you would have to have a constant connection leaving the modem users in the dust. If you still wished to have an FTP site, SHN is the way to go, but I won't take any part in it. At 1:03 PM -0700 9/21/00, Andy Baio wrote: > Hi, all... I'm a newcomer to the jmdl, and > happy to be here. > > A quick question: If I created an FTP site > for all Joni fans as a place to store rare > and unavailable Joni recordings in MP3 > format, would you all be interested? > > I already have three bootlegs available > and would be happy to create an account > just for jmdl'ers, if there was enough > interest and if everyone would be willing > to contribute their bootlegs as well. > > It seems this would be a bit more efficient > than the tape trees of yore. Any thoughts? > > -- Andy. - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:35:44 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: test your geojoniography trivia acumen Maine, no? Am I inventing a memory? - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place But then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace." - --Common, "Reminding Me (Of Sef)" On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Mark Domyancich wrote: > North Dakota, Florida, Tennessee, Colorado, and one more! > > At 2:57 PM -0400 9/21/00, Michael Bird wrote: > >For bonus points, name the other five states (again, besides > >California) she names in her lyrics. > > NP-HOSL demos, Dreamland > > -- > Mark Domyancich > Harpua@revealed.net > tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ > "Close it yourself, shitty!" > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:37:23 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? I would be interested. Andy Baio wrote: > Hi, all... I'm a newcomer to the jmdl, and > happy to be here. > > A quick question: If I created an FTP site > for all Joni fans as a place to store rare > and unavailable Joni recordings in MP3 > format, would you all be interested? > > I already have three bootlegs available > and would be happy to create an account > just for jmdl'ers, if there was enough > interest and if everyone would be willing > to contribute their bootlegs as well. > > It seems this would be a bit more efficient > than the tape trees of yore. Any thoughts? > > -- Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:46:20 -0700 From: Andy Baio Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? Mark Domyancich wrote: > No way. For one thing, when audio is converted into MP3 format some > frequency is lost in the conversion. SHN is a much better format. Funny, I consider myself pretty informed about this sort of thing, but I've never even heard of the SHN format. What is it? The benefits of the MP3 format are largely based in its support and availability. For example, as a Linux user, I doubt that there's a client that can encode or even PLAY this .SHN format. Is it widely available for Mac users, even? Any loss in audio quality can be compensated for by increasing the bit rate. Then again, isn't the decrease in quality much worse when dubbing from analog tape-to-tape-to-tape, then from source-to-MP3? > It may be more efficient than tape trees but also no one will trade > for MP3 sourced shows. Also you would have to have a constant > connection leaving the modem users in the dust. If you still wished > to have an FTP site, SHN is the way to go, but I won't take any part > in it. I think you're misunderstanding. I would simply set up an FTP site on my dedicated connection as a constant resource to the community. If people wanted to upload MP3s, fine; otherwise, it's just a resource for people online. As for modem users, their connections wouldn't matter. An FTP site isn't a peer-to-peer application, like Napster or Gnutella. Everybody would be able to access it (although downloading MP3s on a dial-up connection can be a test of your patience). -- Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:48:18 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Stevie Wonder (NJC) <> I agree 100% and you stated very succinctly what I couldn't convey in all my babble. Further, Stevie composed several hits for others like The Spinners, and also composed several jazz/instrumental pieces for the likes of Ramsay Lewis & such. Genius is definitely the niche for him! Bob NP: Radiohead, "black star" (anxiously awaiting the follow-up to OK Computer!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:04:38 -0700 From: Andy Baio Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC Mark Domyancich wrote: > No way. For one thing, when audio is converted into MP3 format some > frequency is lost in the conversion. SHN is a much better format. Okay, to nip this in the bud, yes, there is a Linux/Mac player and encoder for SHN files. The point is that SHN support for most audio applications doesn't exist, and the primary purposes of using MP3s is defeated, which is small file sizes. Being a lossless compression scheme, SHN files are much larger than their MP3 counterparts. So yes, there's a loss of quality, but it's worth it when dealing with limited bandwidth. From what I understand, the MP3/SHN argument is like a Mac/PC holy war among tape traders, and I'm not going to get into it. But if I run a site with my own bandwidth and hard drive space, it's going to be MP3s, period. -- Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:54:43 +0100 From: "Steve" Subject: re. Died too young (NJC) Lots of wonderful people have been checked sofar here's my tuppence worth surprised none of them have been listed yet 1. John Lennon 2. Buddy Holly 3. Duane Allman 4. Ronnie, Steve and Cassie of Skynyrd 5. Rory Gallagher Gone but not forgotten. NP. Crazy Mary.....Victoria Williams ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:28:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Dottie Hinkel Subject: Re: test your geojoniography trivia acumen New York's mentioned more than once and as for the five other states, well, New Jersey, Florida, Arizona, Iowa and....? - --- Michael Bird wrote: > What is the only State in the Union besides > California mentioned in more than one Joni song? > > For bonus points, name the other five states (again, > besides California) she names in her lyrics. > > Washington (as in D.C.) and New York (as in New York > City) do not > count. See how many you can get without peeking! > > The winner gets love, respect, international kudos > from the JMDL, and a Pagliacci summer frock (there's > one around here somewhere). > > Nickel Chief > (with thanks to Stephen for unfolding his mental > maps on this one) > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:29:24 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? SHN (Shorten) is a compression scheme for aiff or wav files. They are mainly used to trade shows online through high speed connections. From there the files are decoded with an application called Shorten (which is available for both Mac and Winblows) and burned to CD. I don't know if it's available for Linux, I don't know why anyone would want to run that except for those who do can say "Yea, I'm running Linux!" (yay) I suppose you're right about source to MP3 being a better idea than tape to tape etc., but you would have to encode them at a high bit rate (at least 192) but still... it's an MP3 sourced show, and sensitive ears can tell. - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:37:16 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC You didn't read everything completely about SHN. SHN files are encoded aiff or wav files. Once they are downloaded (and I forgot to mention this previously) they are checked via their .md5 checksum to make sure the file was downloaded properly. Then they are decoded as aiff or wav files (and all CD burner people know this, audio files that are to be burned to CD must be aiff or wav files). They aren't meant to be played on your computer like with an MP3 program. I'm just trying to contribute a better idea if you wish to have a FTP server. I suppose MP3s would be a better choice for let's say, unreleased songs, but if you want to upload an entire tape tree for people who want to put it on tape or CD, SHN is the way to go. Whatever you want to do with your site is your business, I'm just trying to contribute a better idea. Mark, who promises this will be his last techno-soapbox-babble - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:38:46 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: melisma njc first ellen and heche, now cypher and ethridge.... what is the world coming to? rampant heterosexuality in our schools and churches??????????? signed: INDIGNANT JMDLER > > in an unrelated story on aol news, there were some melissa arobatics in the > ethridge household as it appears that ms. cypher and ms. ethridge have split. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:44:59 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Fw: Stevie Wonder (NJC) Kakki said: In the realm of his music, you don't need a lot of words to convey the meaning and the beauty of his vision. Perfect lyrics in his songs may be an artistic distraction and could mess up a good thing. It's like an impressionistic painting. The lack of perfect, realistic brushstrokes enables one to access other dimensions of meaning in the art that may not otherwise be realized. Sometimes the words can just get in the way and that's O.K., in my opinion. That's exactly what I was getting at and you express it so eloquently( though I don't think you need a lot of words to convey the meaning and beauty of your opinion :>}) Seriously though, one thing I admire about Neil Young for example, is his ability to say the simplest things in his lyrics and in his music they come across sounding so rich and beautiful. And I think it very difficult to accomplish that. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:56:08 -0700 From: Andy Baio Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC Mark Domyancich wrote: > I don't know if it's available for Linux, I don't know why anyone > would want to run that except for those who do can say "Yea, I'm > running Linux!" (yay) Boy, you really know how to throw kerosene on the fire! I'm not going to touch this one with a ten-foot-penguin. (I'll let others argue the point for me.) For some great reasons why a totally free, community-developed operating system is better than a commercial solution (and some reasons why it isn't), check out the following site. http://www.seul.org/docs/whylinux.html > They aren't meant to be played on your computer like > with an MP3 program. Apparently, there are utilities that allow SHN files to be played real-time, available here: http://alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html > I'm just trying to contribute a better idea if you wish > to have a FTP server. Cool. I appreciate that. Thank you. -- Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:03:15 -0700 (PDT) From: steve@torchsongs.com Subject: NJC - Brian Wilson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:13:39 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: re. Died too young (NJC) And Mama Cass Elliott, too. Don't even start with the chicken choking myth, either. That's just not true. - -Julius NP: "California Dreaming"...by you know who. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:22:01 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Neil Young Bridge Benefit (NJC) Speaking of Neil Young... Red alert, Bay Area and California Jmdlese!! Everyone really. Tickets go on sale this Sunday at 10:00 a.m through TicketMaster for this awesome show, October 28 and 29th (My birthday's on the 28th, come celebrate with me?) Tix are only $38, reserved! Check out this line-up: Tegan & Sara (who's heard of them?) Foo Fighters Beck CSNY Red Hot Chili Peppers Dave Matthews Band Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers Neil, of course I don't care how you get here, just get here if you can. Are you coming, Kakki? I'll try to get tix for ya, if you want. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: steve@torchsongs.com Subject: NJC - Brian Wilson Hi Sorry about the mis-post earlier; too quick on the Enter key Anyway, while people are on the greatest songwriter thread, I don't know if somebody mentioned him, but Brian Wilson is no slouch. Leslie and I saw him on his Pet Sounds tour last night, and that was a great show. He was in true maestro form, conducting the backup band "The Wondermints" and singing pretty darn well for a guy who's been through so much. They did a set of material crossing his whole career, solo and Beach Boy stuff, then the Pet Sounds set (the faithfulness of which amazed me - they even did the bass harmonica/tenor banjo break for "I Know There's an Answer"), then several rousing encores of surfer songs that had the whole place rocking and singing along. The show ended with an extremely touching "Love and Mercy", with Brian at keyboards and the backup band a-cappella, linked arms at the front of the stage. Whew. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:28:11 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? NJC Sounds like a very nice gesture to me, Andy. I'd be very psyched. Welcome to The List, btw. Good to have you. - -Julius in Northern California ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:25:59 -0500 From: Patti Haskins Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC From the Country Music Hall of Fame: Boudleaux and Felice Bryant ...They wrote a long line of country and pop hits, including Jimmy Dickens' "I'm Little But I'm Loud" and "Out Behind The Barn;" Carl Smith's "Hey Joe;" and most of the early Everly Brothers hits, including "Bye Bye Love," "Wake Up Little Susie" and "Bird Dog." The couple also penned Jim Reeves' "Blue Boy" and one of the classic songs of all time, "Rocky Top." They wrote over 1,500 recorded songs, copies of which have sold over 300 million records. Patti in Dallas > Don't know much about Boudleaux Bryant except that he wrote the song > 'Devoted To You' that Carly and James remade back in the late 70s. I > know he wrote a lot more stuff and I've seen the name elsewhere but > that's the only one I could come up with for now. I believe he wrote > a lot in the late 50s & early 60s. Marcel? > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:43:07 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: today and in a few hours (NJC) Thank you so much for the birthday wishes! XOXOXOXO Jimmy said ... "With Saturn's current influence, you are really hungry for love, but you just don't know it. Uranus sparks mutual electricity now, so make a date for amour." Must be true! My husband & I have been "living it up" lately ;-) A huge birthday hug to my dear friend Marian! Lots of Love & Happiness to everyone ... Heather At 10:54 PM 9/20/00 -0300, Wally Kairuz wrote: >how about joining me in this refined refrain to wish > >LOVELY HEATHER > >A WONDERFULLY HAPPY FUCKING BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >and right after midnight, when september 21 rolls in: > >ANOTHER HAPPY HAPPY FUCKING BIRTHDAY TO >[drum roll......................] > >M-A-R-I-A-N!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >[JONI'S OWN PRIDE AND JOY] > >dear heather and dear marian, >i love you and i miss you both! >much happiness and peace your way! >wallyk >stay tuned: in a couple of days the libra sun will mark the birthday of many >a joni-slut!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:56:50 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Pardon? catman wrote: > > Looking up Joni looking for dvd's and rarities I found: > The Missing of Summer (Jap. Imp.) > Chinese Taxi (imp) > > Okay so which albums did I miss? Don't Join The Reckless Slaughter....for one. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:31:12 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: DVD Decor etcNJC catman wrote: > > We bought a 32" widescreen tv. Had to take the lounge door off! Not to > get it in but to be able to see it once it was! Welcome to home-cinema heaven, Colin! > We also bought a DVD player. WOW! Concert dvd's are wonderfull. So I hear. I don't own any music DVDs (and I have over 100 film ones), apart from the George Michael greatest hits compilation. With the digital surround sound, I can imagine how impressive the concert discs must be. > Also, you may or may not know, that due to Hollywood the wolrd is > divided into 'regions' as far as DVD's are concerned. USA is region 1 > and UK is region 2. UK dvd players will only play region 2. It is > illegal to sell DVD discs of other regions here and also to sell > players of a different region. This is one of the pains about DVD. At least now the delay between a film's release on R1 and R2 is closing slowly. Of course, the versions aren't always the same, or of equal quality...and not all films are available in all regions. > HOWEVER, thanks to the wonderful net, I have turned my dvd player into > a region free player. It will know play dvd's from anywhere in the 6 > regions. It works as I have a region 1 dvd disc to play and it does! That's great..I didn't want to tamper with my machine (I'm a conservative old swine), so I have to make do with UK-only discs. There's still plenty to choose from. I think if I could buy R1 DVDs as well, I'd be in serious debt! > The DVD's we bought: > Bette Midler -Diva Las Vegas > Pet Shop Boys Live > Madonna collection(2) > Eurythmics Peace > Lily Savage-Paying The Rent > Armageddon > Beautiful Thing > The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen Of The Desert > Muriel's Wedding > The Sixth Sense > Carrie > Contact An interesting selection. Contact was the first truly great DVD in the UK. It has so much extra stuff on it. Now, most new releases have a large amount of bonus material. Have you seen the 6th Sense disc yet? I'm really into to the whole DVD world these days...probably more than music. I spend most of my time writing for various entertainment sites, and reviewing the latest titles. It's the perfect way to enjoy films for someone who can't get out much, or simply hates cinemas (and the excessive noise and irritation they entail). I am sure that your collection will grow very quickly. Once you get hooked, you stay hooked. As far as Region 2 is concerned, I keep my site right up to date with all the best new DVDs coming out every month (in addition to all the music and other film-related features). The Slipstrem has a new-look, too. You're welcome to check it out. Best wishes, Jason (who watched "Taxi" tonight - no, not the TV series - and is still feeling pumped-up...John Low, you HAVE to see these car chases!) http://www/the-slipstream.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:06:34 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: today and in a few hours (NJC) stay tuned: in a couple of days the libra sun will mark the birthday of many a joni-slut!!!!!! Libras do it best! Victor(Sept 26) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:35:14 EST From: "Diane Evans" Subject: Re: MP3 FTP site? Andy, You wrote: > A quick question: If I created an FTP site > for all Joni fans as a place to store rare > and unavailable Joni recordings in MP3 > format, would you all be interested? > Wow! Not a moment's hesitation! Yes, yes, yes! Okay, maybe a moment's hesitation; do we have to worry about ethics here? I'm new at the internet stuff, so I don't know what the feelings are, especially from the artists... Diane _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #507 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?