From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #504 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 19 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 504 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- the B-52s (SJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] The List ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Allergies (NJC) [catman ] A Joni moment on a crowded train ["Raffaele Malanga" ] RE: the B-52s NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Do I work at a great place or what? NJC (md) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: oops(NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: A Joni moment on a crowded train ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time?(NJC) ["Victor Johnson] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.co] Fwd: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? [Susan McNamara ] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC [michael w yarbro] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? ["Brenda J. Walker" <] Re: Prequel to Harry's House/HOSL [B Merrill ] Re: Ludwig's Tune [B Merrill ] Joni and an acoustic quitar (SJC) [Loren Carter ] Re: Joni tatoo's NJC [Alison ] Re: Ludwig's Tune [Alison ] Fwd: JCC NJC! [Susan McNamara ] Fwd: Joni and an acoustic quitar [Susan McNamara ] Re: HOSL and blindness [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC [Siresorrow@aol.c] Re: Tatoos (NJC) [Alison ] Re: Foni Mitchell - UK Joni tribute band njc ["Martin Giles" ] Documentary/No Yellow Wallpaper NJC [dsk ] Judy Collins' toes, (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Jose attribution (was Prequel to Harry's House) ["Pitassi, Mary" > Stephen already said Elvis Costello, but I'll second that vote. Probably THE most prolific songwriter of the last 20 years and master of every genre there is, just about. I'd also include Bruce Springsteen, our generation's Woody Guthrie, who explores a consistent theme but does it with such brilliance much like Joni can write love song after love song and never duplicate herself...and thanks for including Curtis Mayfield. And the Willie Dixon choice is inspired but odd...many bluesmen would also be eligible (John Le Hooker, Muddy Waters), including most obviously Chuck Berry. >> Before many of the names above went on my list I'd have to list Peter Gabriel and Jackson Browne, and probably James Taylor as well. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:15:24 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The List michael w yarbrough I so agree with you when you say, "To this list I would add, off the top of my head, Prince, Willy Nelson,and the most glaring omission from your list, Neil Young." AND, as much as I love a few of his albums as much as Joni's, I do have to agree when you say, "If Stevie Wonder's lyrics didn't suck so badly he'd be here, too." Then to add one more master songwriter that has not been mentioned: James Taylor ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:06:03 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Allergies (NJC) Vince that will be hard. However, having had to deal with something simliar recently, i can tell you that the bonus of feeling well nullifies the lack of the goodies. For me at any rate. For many years I suffered chronic fatigue, a painful rash on my foot and 'hangovers', hunger, weight gain, falling asleep after eating and jsut no energy, diarrhea. I had a lousy GP who missed all these signs and put it down to neurosis! Last year I sent an NJC post about how I felt to the list. I got sevral replies and they all suggested the same thing(apart from one person who suggested it was psychological!). The upshot is I feel wonderful! I discovered, by accident, that I have Celiac's disease-gluton allergy. I also have a problem with my blood suger levels. So I quit being vegetarian-couldn't not eat carbs and remain one. As a result, I have lost 30lbs now. I feel wonderful-like I have never felt before. My hunger is 'normal' and is satisfied very quickly. I have loads of eneergy-I get up around 7am and in bed about midnight and I don't have to nap. My rash has gone. My diarrhea has gone, my hangovers ahve gone, the fatigue has gone, the moodiness has gone, I can concentrate, my blood pressure is normal. I DO miss certain foods. Like toast and Haagen Daz and sauces and chips(what you call fries) and cake and chocolate but the urge to eat them is not strong now and passes very quickly. I also felt guilty staring to eat meat agin but that too has gone. It was either that or die. So, although I am aware your allergies seem more severe, it does get better. The way I look at it, I miss the pel,asure of ecrtain foods in my mouth but the bonus far outweighs that. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:50:00 GMT From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: A Joni moment on a crowded train Last night I was returning home from work on this crowded underground train in London (the "Tube") and there was a man sitting and reading a book apparently called "The science of discworld". Chapter Eight has the following title: "We are Stardust (or at least we went to Woodstock)". Does anyone know more about the book? Raffaele in rainy London _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:07:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Ludwig's Tune NJC i know what you mean, leslie! i rehearsed the song with victor the night before your set and i was also amazed at his ability to play such a difficult song by ear!!!! i remember that when he told me that he would learn ''judgement'' so that he could play it for me at ashara's i thought, ''how can anyone LEARN that song?????'' well, victor proved capable of any musical feat. and i agree with kakki, victor MUST be neil young... wallyk, the a cappella guy > > At Topsfield I had the awesome pleasure of singing "Ludwig's Tune" with > Victor Johnson on keyboard - a humbling experience to say the least - > thank you Victor for inviting me to accompany you and for encouraging me > to be spontaneous and conquer my fears. > > Victor, you are a talented gentleman and a friend of spirit. > > Leslie M. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:10:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: the B-52s NJC clark, so glad to know there's another b-52's fan on the list! the b's were the soundtrack to my youth: let's go crash that party in normaltown tonight!!!!! wallyK > > I would say the B-52s changed my life -- they made it much more fun. The > B-52s were all about fun, about silliness, about dancing, about not feeling > sorry for yourself, and my attitude has always been he who dies with the most > fun wins. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:14:18 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Do I work at a great place or what? NJC (md) In a message dated 9/18/00 10:12:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MDESTE1 writes: << Mary Grace....."Judy I'll have to look into that in Code Section 26 sec. 5 ...someone crank up LaCerte..... >> EXACTLY the scenario I was imagining! What do you suppose are the odds??? MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:22:58 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC In a message dated 9/18/00 11:00:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: << > The Guys: > > Dylan > Smokey Robinson > Willy Dixon > Paul Simon > Curtis Mayfield > > Who else? >> I have to add Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, he's got some corny rock lyrics from time to time, but few singer/songwriters consistently captures regular daily struggles with love and working and family with lyrics that are intelligent and poignant. It's not often that he veers into the mawkish, but even Joni is prey to that from time to time. As well, he consistently blends those words with music that simply takes off. Classics like: "Thunder Road," "The River," and "Brilliant Disguise" are only a few that immediately come to mind. (probably because I his greatest hits CD playing right now). MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:07:20 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Yellow Wallpaper - Cop Out? (NJC) In a message dated 9/18/00 5:17:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << Whereas the options for women (esp. for middle class women) have improved greatly since the 60's, the problem of materialism (as a seduction, an obsession) is just as much with us, isn't it? Maybe it's even more with us, with this gung ho economy of the past decade and all this new wealth. And it's something that applies to both sexes, just as both Harry and Mrs. Harry are focused on it, in their own way. >> Yes, I agree with that 100%. To be sure, there are inequalities no matter where you look, but the pull of materialism is a problem with both men and women. Both genders buying into the acquisition model without taking the work to do the offsetting spiritual growth that balances it. There is nothing wrong with wanting, enjoying and acquiring nice things. I like "nice" things. There is something wrong when this obsession with goods creates the mindset of "NIMBY," (aka "not in my backyard"), when it comes to shelters or affordable housing. There is something wrong when, in order to expose your children to more of life, you have to "celebrate" diversity rather than have diversity in your schools and around your town. Again, people chose. They chose to do, to not do, to explore, to ignore. Next to "life is short, love is precious," I think that the axiom, "the unexamined life is not worth living" are good words by which you can chart your course through life. MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:10:03 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: oops(NJC) << Bob this is because it was produced by Lanois's protege Malcolm Burn (a friend here in New Orleans where the record was recorded). Malcolm haas recorded alot of records for artists that Dan produced that Malcolm did the follow up record for. >> Very cool footnote, Michael...I read the liner notes first thing & saw that he was the producer, but had not heard of him. It makes a lot of sense, though. Next time you're sitting around drinking rum out of a coconut with him, tell him I think he did a great job! ;~) Bob NP: Sinead O'Connor live ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:44:16 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: A Joni moment on a crowded train Raffaele in rainy London wrote:- > Last night I was returning home from work on this crowded underground train > in London (the "Tube") and there was a man sitting and reading a book > apparently called "The science of discworld". Chapter Eight has the > following title: > "We are Stardust (or at least we went to Woodstock)". > Does anyone know more about the book? Yep - it's a collaboration between Terry Pratchett and someone else, and you'll find it in the sci/fi and fantasy section of pretty much any bookshop. It seeks to compare and draw parallels between the science of our world and the magic of Pratchett's Discworld. I've only read a bit of it so far and hadn't got to the "Stardust" part. Well done for noticing! Cheers, - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:48:03 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Ludwig's Tune > > At Topsfield I had the awesome pleasure of singing "Ludwig's Tune" with > Victor Johnson on keyboard - a humbling experience to say the least - > thank you Victor for inviting me to accompany you and for encouraging me > to be spontaneous and conquer my fears. This was a humbling experience indeed. You were truly amazing Leslie Mixon. Thank you for taking me on that foggy trip where time just fades away and all I can hear is the sound of your voice singing. Victor, wondering if anybody remembers the piano player/composer on Sesame Street who used to bang his head on the piano over and over whenever he tried to write anything ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:08:06 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC Any list of songwriters that leaves out Peter Townshend, Lindsey Buckingham, Boudeleau Bryant, and Robert Johnson is missing something. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:10:52 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time?(NJC) > > Victor, I'm convinced you ARE Neil Young ;-) > > Kakki, who adds Jimmy Webb and James Taylor > Actually, I have a portal in my backyard, under the shed, behind a rock and if you climb into it you can be Neil Young for 15 minutes. Tickets are $200 a pop but listmembers can go for $100. SSssshhh....be quiet.....I'll let you out of the cage tomorrow.... Victor BNY Enterprises ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:48:45 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC <> Everytime we do these "greatest of all time" lists, there's always somebody who revels in coming up with somebody that's so obscure they astound the group. Marcel, I'm happy that it was you this time 'round! :~) So fill me in on this guy...was he a high school chum who wrote a great song, or was he the guy who wrote all those great ballads for his wife Anita, or what? Bob NP: The Pretenders, "Kid" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:05:41 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? Yes, Joni is the best singer/songwriter in the world. Next subject ... :-) Oh yeah, don't forget damn good guitar player, too. sue > > Does everyone here think that Joni is THE best singer/songwriter there >is and ever has been?I know she herself thinks she's among the best in the >world.I only wish she wrote less love songs and more songs about other >subjects. ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:08:35 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House Has anyone mentioned Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire? One of her magic marker drawings from FTR is, what seems to be, a woman in poverty not her age and abused by drugs. sue >What about Cherokee Louise? She meets all three criteria. > > > > > >>--- Anne Sandstrom wrote: >> > I can't think >> > of any song of hers about a woman who's living in >> > poverty, a woman who's >> > abused, or a woman who is vastly different in age >> > from Joni at the time she >> > wrote the song/created the character. > > >Deb Messling >messling@enter.net >http://www.enter.net/~messling/ > >~I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat. / Joni Mitchell ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:31:32 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC All this talk about Bruce Springsteen reminds me of someone I cannot BELIEVE I'd forgotten until now: Patti Smith. Not as prolific as the others, but having just released one of the very best albums of her career, she gets major points for longevity. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's hard to be a diamond in a rhinestone world." - --Dolly Parton, "Tennessee Homesick Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:31:07 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? I would add Bruce Springsteen to that list of guys.... B Merrill wrote: > I assumed that the orginal question was rhetorical. But I've been thinking > about this topic. So let me re-phrase it along the lines of: > > Which singer-songwriters of our time, Joni's time (the last 35-40 years, > since the revolution in pop-rock-folk songwriting brought about by the > "British Invasion," etc) are the most impressive, in terms of both the > quality and quantity of their output? > > I'd like to underline the quantity aspect, since what is especially > impressive about Joni is her SUSTAINED creative powers-- and I suspect, > most of all, most consistently, her sustained lyrical powers. She has not > exhausted herself, or burned out. (Whether she has peaked is another > question. Time will tell...) > > Before answering the question, it might be useful to locate Joni among some > of the other major singer-songwriters of her time. > > Among the contenders might be, off the top of my head, and in no order: > > The Ladies: > > Laura Nyro > Joni > Ricky Lee J > Kate Bush > > The Guys: > > Dylan > Smokey Robinson > Willy Dixon > Paul Simon > Curtis Mayfield > > Who else? > > This is not a list of my favorites, what I like most of all. I'm just > trying to list the generally venerated singer-songwriters, with a > *sustained* track record. > > And when you emphasize the quantity part, then I suspect that the only > songwriters here who might be more prolific than Joni (while keeping up an > adequate quality control) would be Dylan and Smokey Robinson. Does that > sound right? > > Please note that I'm ruling out Bachrach because he is not a lyricist, and > Sondheim because he is not a singer. I'm also setting aside composing > pairs, such as Lennon & McCartney, Becker & Fagen. Apologies if that seems > too arbitrary. > > ciao, > > Bruce > > Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > Does everyone here think that Joni is THE best singer/songwriter > there > >is and ever has been? I know she herself thinks she's among the best in the > >world. I only wish she wrote less love songs and more songs about other > >subjects. > > I *think* I agree on this last point.... But But But maybe I don't... > 'Cause hasn't she written a great deal on topics outside of her romance de > jour? Who else might write a song about, say, Ethiopia? What subjects did > you have in mind? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:29:44 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Prequel to Harry's House/HOSL Yes, Mark, like you, I'd always assumed that the blindness theme was metaphoric, and it does diminish it, somewhat, to find that it's literal, or may be literal. It makes it less poignant... maybe even a little bit cruel? So I think Joni was right to try to cut off Chaka when she spilled the beans. I'll have to remember not to tell Chaka any of my intimacies. Bruce >Somehow giving the references to blindness a literal meaning just >ruins the song for me. >Chaka should have kept her mouth shut. Maybe it's some kind of >running joke that the two of them have about the song. I prefer to be >in denial on this subject! Sometimes denial is... where it's at! - -- he said, popping in his rose colored eyes, B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:10:56 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Ludwig's Tune >Kakki, first president of Victor's SoCal Fan Club ;-) says: >Leslie, you and Victor were awesome on this one. >There was something truly magical happening during your performance. I'm >glad I was there to experience it. Yes definitely. Thank you so much Leslie and Victor for putting that together. And Victor let me say again how nice it was so hear your singing voice in the proximate and un-miced (sp?) intimate setting of Ashara's back porch, afterwards. (And Michael Paz's voice, too.) Bruce ------------------------------ Date: 19 Sep 00 12:39:19 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: Joni and an acoustic quitar (SJC) All, My wife and I were watching the first tape tree video...and, let me stop here to thank everyone involved with the entire tape tree process. The packaging was excellent, and the overall cutting and pasting together of the segments was super....now back to the point...most of the first segments had her playing an acoustic guitar all by herself, and while she was playing she would tap her fingernails on the body of the guitar giving a percussion sound and beat to the song. Later on the tape she was playing her electric guitar, and well, I started to miss that drum-like sound to her songs. Yeah, sure, I'll get over it, but..... Loren.... NP...American Pie...Don McLean (on the classic rock station) p.s. Ashara, thanks ever so much for the tapes. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:23:45 -0600 From: Alison Subject: Re: Joni tatoo's NJC holy crap! i go camping for a few short days, and the list has degenerated to this? wow! > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >> But you've given us tongues like serpents! More like: >> >> :-Pd-: okay, debra, i don't know what the hell this means, but it made me laugh none the less! > Bob and Alison? > Looked more like > > [:=/ \~; ) > > to me. scandalous!!!!! hope all are well, and thanks again for all the kind words from native new yorkers welcoming me to the city (david lahm, debra, etc). you are all too kind! now someone find me a place to live! :-0 take care, alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:43:06 -0600 From: Alison Subject: Re: Ludwig's Tune > From: "Victor Johnson" >> At Topsfield I had the awesome pleasure of singing "Ludwig's Tune" with >> Victor Johnson on keyboard - a humbling experience to say the least - >> thank you Victor for inviting me to accompany you and for encouraging me >> to be spontaneous and conquer my fears. this was an amazing performance, one of the highlights of saturday's festivities (or any day's festivities...) incredible vocals by leslie and victor's playing was well...incredible!!! (where's that damn thesaurus????) victor, not only do i remember the piano composer guy on sesame street, he was one of my favorite characters! my grandma used to come in and watch that one and giggle with me (she was also an incredible pianist). i'll admit, that if i run into sesame street while channel flipping, i get sucked in every time! alison e. > Victor, wondering if anybody remembers the piano player/composer on Sesame > Street who used to bang his head on the piano over and over whenever he > tried to write anything ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:40:53 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: JCC NJC! OK all you cat lovers out there. Sue, the allergic one, wants a pet and I'd really love a cat. Is there hope for me? Not only do I want loving companionship but I also have a meece problem!! (that's what you get for living in the country!) Since this is NJC, and I am on the ONLY JONI list, could you email me personally? Thanks, sue sem8@cornell.edu >Status: U >From: m.harmssen@t-online.de (m.harmssen) >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: JCC >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:45:41 +0200 >X-Sender: 310042467486-0001@t-dialin.net >Sender: les@jmdl.com >Reply-To: m.harmssen@t-online.de (m.harmssen) >Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni >Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com >Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > >which means the first "c" of course stands for cats................. >so finally here I am on the other side of the pond in good >ol'Germany getting the >hot news on JONI's cats, isn't it romantic ? >so it's the JONIMITCHELLCATSDISCUSSIONLIST awrite - it gives my home >a heartbeat >indeed yesssssss sssssirayyyyyyyyyy :-) >catloving michael >m.harmssen@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:53:31 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Joni and an acoustic quitar Loren said: >...most of the first segments had her >playing an acoustic guitar all by herself, and while she was playing she would >tap her fingernails on the body of the guitar giving a percussion sound and >beat to the song. Later on the tape she was playing her electric guitar, and >well, I started to miss that drum-like sound to her songs. Yeah, sure, I'll >get over it, but..... You may get over it, but I'm not sure I will. Some of the taped performances of Joni acoustic during the TI period are her best in my opinion. What is amazing about her whole Night Ride Home/Turbulent Indigo phase is she was coming back from a long hiatus of performing live and the sounds she was getting out of a guitar were just mesmerizing, even while she was forgetting lyrics left and right!! :-) Edmonton Folk Festival (Aug 94?) is a wonderful example. Hasn't performed in front of an audience in umpteen years and opens the set with Last Chance Lost. visionary, she's my hero. sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:46:48 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL and blindness In a message dated 9/19/00 11:26:01 AM, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << I'd always assumed that the blindness theme was metaphoric, and it does diminish it, somewhat, to find that it's literal, or may be literal. It makes it less poignant... maybe even a little bit cruel? >> Besides fear of a law suit or controversy in gerneral, I think Bruce has hit upon the reasons Joni would not have wanted Chaka to divulge the inspiration for HOSL. Although Joni sings about "darkness" and "a diamond dog carrying a cup and a cane" in HOSL, I noticed that she doesn't mention the words "blind" or "blindness" (probably a little too literal for our Joan, considering the alleged subject matter). I couldn't help but think of how many references there are to blindness in Joni's songs, however, and when I couldn't think of any more examples, I did a little Sherlocking through her lyrics. Remember the recent "moon" thread? Well, I think Joni probably mentions some form of the word "blind" more than she ever mentions the moon. Blindness seems to be a recurring -- or as Joni would say, "reoccurring" -- theme in her lyrics. I came up with the 13 instances listed below. Maybe it's not a lot for a poet/songwriter over the course of a 30+ year career, but for me it's interesting enough to keep me occupied when I should be working on something for a very boring client. Now I think I'll check out how many times she's used the word "the." Here are Joni's "blindness" lyrics: I Had a KIng -- "Lately he's taken to saying I'm crazy and blind" I Think I Understand -- "I've robbed its blackness blind" This Flight Tonight -- "Ooh, ooh, love is blind" People's Parties -- "Fumbling deaf dumb and blind" Edith and the Kingpin -- "Beating frantic and snowblind, Romantic and snowblind" Shadows and Light -- "Blindness, blindness and sight" God Must Be a Boogie Man -- "Blind faith to care, Blind rage to kill" Fiction -- "Some follow blind" The Three Great Stimulants -- "Appetites find us, Release us and blind us" The Windfall -- "Oh it's not like I was blind" Come in from the Cold -- "I was running blind" Ray's Dad's Cadillac -- "I'll be blackboard blind on Monday" The Sire of Sorrow -- "Like eyes for the blind, like feet for the lame" -- Bob Murphy, writing this behind a "blind" of potted palms at Wendy's NP: Sweet Blindness ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:55:54 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? NJC In a message dated 9/19/00 6:44:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << I have to add Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, he's got some corny rock lyrics from time to time, but few singer/songwriters consistently captures regular daily struggles with love and working and family with lyrics that are intelligent and poignant. >> as a teenager in philly in the 70's, you had to love bruce. so many trips to the shore..wooder ices, mac's pizza, pabst blue ribbon, riding bikes on the boardwalk. my most vivid memory of springsteen was in my first week in college at villanova in 1979. i met these guys from jersey and we ended up in one of their apartments in haverford smoking from a 6 foot bong. and someone put on a live version of 4th of july, asbury park and it was just really wild. sitting with people i barely knew but had shared many of the same experiences in the summers the years before, all of us, partly wondering why we couldn't wait to get to where we were right then, partly wishing we had never left,......the feeling of being 'in between' all wraped up and made perfect for us in a song.... Sandy the angels have lost their desire for us I spoke to `em just last night and they said they won't set themselves on fire for us anymore Every summer when the weather gets hot they ride that road down from heaven on their Harleys they come and they go And you can see `em dressed like stars in all the cheap little seashore bars parked making love with their babies out on the Kokomo Well the cops finally busted Madame Marie for tellin' fortunes better than they do This boardwalk life for me is through You know you ought to quit this scene too Sandy the aurora's rising behind us, the pier lights our carnival life forever Oh love me tonight and I promise I'll love you forever ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:21:36 -0600 From: Alison Subject: Re: Tatoos (NJC) yes, i can see it now... my new roommate comes home to find 50 drunken jonifesters packed in to the HUGE (10'x10') two-bedroom apartment... ashara has conveniently brought her piano down from topsfield, which is suspended by a series of ropes and pulley's from the fire escape. victor plays on, while strapped securely into a window washer harness. chuck, paz and claud are performing from the bathtub, luckily the acoustics are great! tile echos! kakki, in the kitchen (okay, the east wall we call the kitchen) making martinis while maggie scrambles to the 24 hour salad bar/deli/convenience store downstairs to arrange meals for the crew above... yes, it could happen. alison e. > From: Michael Paz > Reply-To: Michael Paz > Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:54:04 -0500 > To: Joni Digest > Subject: Tatoos (NJC) > > Bob wrote: > "Hey, there's an idea! If you were going to get a Joni tatoo (or maybe some > of > you have one already), what would it be & where?" > > I have always wanted to get a diamond snake around my arm, but have not been > drunk or stoned enough (or both) to get it done. But I AM game. Maybe when > we all go to NYC. I hear Allison is planning a JoniFest in NYC.... > > Michael > > NP-Everyday I Think Of You-Pat Metheny > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:41:34 +0100 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: Foni Mitchell - UK Joni tribute band njc Ummmmm. Thought I'd re-post this to the list, as it may not have made sense the first time around. I didn't include the quote from the post that inspired mine. D'oh! Hi guys Great to hear from you. As you know, we suffer on this side of the Atlantic from not having had Joni play over here in public for nearly a generation. Consequently we who know her music are in a tiny minority. What a wonderful idea to from a 'tribute' band for JM! I for one would love to hear you play - do you ever play further afield than Birmingham? Are some or all of you newcomers to the list (pardon my ignorance if you are not)? If you are new, welcome, welcome. (In fact welcome anyway)! atb, Martin. In London. >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:16:33 EDT >From: Fonimitchell@aol.com >Subject: Foni Mitchell - UK Joni tribute band > > >Hi everybody. > >I'd like to tell you all about our band - "Foni Mitchell." We are a 5 piece >band based in Birmingham, England. We play exclusively Joni songs, mostly >her >earlier work, and our aims are (i) to keep her music alive on this side of >the Atlantic (ii) to give people a chance to spend an evening listening to >Joni music played live and (iii) to have lots of fun doing it. >Our line-up is : >Jo Rafferty lead vocals, guitar >Ella Wright vocals, keyboards >Paul Witcomb guitars, mandola >Clive Witcomb bass guitar, acoustic guitar >Tony Dwyer drums, percussion > >We would love to hear from you at fonimitchell@aol.com with any thoughts, >suggestions, or just encouragement from like-Joni-minded people. Please get >in touch - especially if we could come and play for you! > >Very best wishes, > >Foni Mitchell. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:39:56 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? Does the name Marvin Gaye mean anything to anybody? He's near the top of my list. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:16:47 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Best singer / songwriters ? Richard Thompson ? Hi everyone. I'm glad somebody mentioned Peter Gabriel, but what about the evergreen Richard Thompson, who I'm sure deserves a mention ! And maybe John Martyn ? Bye for now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:18:40 EDT From: Fonimitchell@aol.com Subject: Joni trivia - vocal leaps. The second chorus of "Case of You" takes some beating! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:24:38 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter of our time? Another Bruce who comes to mind--Cockburn. God I love that guy, really. I still haven't been able to get over how great his Charity of Night album was. Consistent, too. I'm dating myself here but I've been listening to him since 1978. >I would add Bruce Springsteen to that list of guys.... > >B Merrill wrote: > > > I assumed that the orginal question was rhetorical. But I've been thinking > > about this topic. So let me re-phrase it along the lines of: > > > > Which singer-songwriters of our time, Joni's time (the last 35-40 years, > > since the revolution in pop-rock-folk songwriting brought about by the > > "British Invasion," etc) are the most impressive, in terms of both the > > quality and quantity of their output? ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:26:10 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: At LAsT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd been thinking last week that I'm really starting to believe in magic and manifestion but now I'm thoroughly convinced! I went to L5P to buy some cards and just happened to stop in at WaxnFacts Records as I hadn't been in some time. I was just kind of poking around and I walked over to the "M" section in used vinyl to thumb through the Joni section. And much to my surprise, instead of the usual worn out scratchy copies of Blue or LOTC, and Dog Eat Dogs, there was a Radio Promo copy of Mingus that looked like it had never been played. And if that wasn't enough, right behind it was a copy of Shadows and Light that likewise, looked like it might have been placed on a turntable once. But wait, there's more. I flipped up a couple more and lo and behold, Miles of Aisles was staring out at me in the same, virtually mint condition. Now I mentioned several times at Jonifest that I had never heard Miles of Aisles or Shadows and Light. It was not like I had been avoiding them but for some reason, I had never felt particularly inspired to go and pick them up. But I am so glad that I've waited because nothing equals the experience of going out and finding a record that you've never heard and taking it home and putting it on the turntable. I spent many years, all through junior high and high school, riding my bike to record stores, buying interesting albums, taking them home and listening to them over and over. I even used to wait till it was raining and then take my bike and ride the two or three miles to Sensous Sounds to peruse the records for an hour as I figured when it was pouring down rain, it was more of a challenge to venture out into the stormy weather, and I would value the records more since I had to go out in the rain to buy them. I remember spending hours perusing through albums, discovering new things, and bringing them home as if they were sacred, religious relics. And usually, if I liked one artist, the next time I went to the record store, I would buy 4 or 5 more of their albums and within a month I would have almost their whole catalog. Once, when I was buying Led Zeppelin Houses of the Holy, I was hit by a car coming out of a parking lot. The record flew through the air but miraculously it was undamaged. My bike was sort of smashed and I wasn't really hurt. And when I bought Jethro Tull Aqualung, I was sitting on a bench outside the mall, waiting for the bus, and I watched a con artist trick some lady out of her money by playing the "guess which nut the ball is under" game and then telling her he would double whatever money she had on her, and then taking it from her when she got it out. This was my first exposure to such trickery so it stuck in my mind a long time. Wow! I didn't know buying a couple of albums could send me down memory lane so far back. But anyway I'm sitting here listening to Joni sing so I must say I'm very happy right now. And all for a whopping twenty bucks! Victor NP: Miles of Aisles- A Case of You ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:23:54 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Documentary/No Yellow Wallpaper NJC Loren Carter wrote: > My wife and I were watching the first tape tree video...and, let me stop here > to thank everyone involved with the entire tape tree process. The packaging > was excellent, and the overall cutting and pasting together of the segments > was super.... The editor of those tape trees is JMDLer Barbara Burst who is also the editor of an excellent documentary being shown again tonight in NYC. Patrick L. and I, and many others, saw it last night and I'm still thinking about it, especially in connection with the yellow wallpaper discussion. It's a powerful piece all about living from the heart, being true to one's self and one's feelings no matter what people are saying or what's expected, but living with integrity, as one is created to live. So there was no yellow wallpaper in the movie. No discussion of material goods. And the talk of love was along the lines of "how does it fit into my life", not "how do I turn myself inside out in order to have it or keep it". These phrases are all mine; none of them were used by the five women being interviewed. The message was in their stories. My head felt full after seeing it. The interviews were intertwined with some painterly visual images, which I love, and there was a lot of Ani DeFranco, both talking and performing. What an impressive woman, very smart and much more tender than her tough image conveys. It was great being able to see her perform. I was very impressed. In case anyone missed the original message about the documentary, it's being shown at the Millennium, 66 East 4th Street between 2nd Ave and the Bowery at 8 tonight. For now this is only of interest I guess to people in New York willing to go out on a rainy night on short notice :-), but I hope somehow many of you get to see this documentary sometime. Debra Shea P.S. There's info about the documentary at http://www.whatigot.com. I'm told the site will eventually include clips and additional information, including other showtimes and places. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:02:19 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Judy Collins' toes, (NJC) First of all, let me say that this woman not only looks like an angel: flowing and ethereal, she acts like one as well: charming, accessible and gracious. Ms. Collins was not there to sing as much as to peddle her new record label, "Wildflowers." To accomplish this, she gave a 45 minute "sampling" of her acapella talents. Starting off with reminiscing about her father's radio career, she sang "The Sunny Side of the Street" and another Rogers and Hart tune that I can't identify. She talked about her early career covering traditional folk songs and treated us to "Maid of Constant Sorrow." From there came the answer to the usual question of "Where have you been?" Ms. Collins plays between 60 and 70 dates a year, so she's never been anywhere but "out there." Throughout her performance, she talked about how she "found" her voice after her start with traditional folk music to covering Tom Rush, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seager and others. (No, she did not mention Joni, a bit surprising since her "Both Sides Now" was a huge seller). She again treated us to snippets of "Amazing Grace," "This Land is Your Land," and a few others. Her warmth and sincerity was easy to see. In spite of the record breaking heat, she wore a knit black pantsuit with a flowing fringed black scarf that had a magenta lining. Her hair was pulled back in that familiar Gibson Girl style and she wore a pair of black suede open-toed shoes. Very understated in that elegant but casual look. (I try to achieve that myself on dress up half-Wednesdays but can never get my boxer shorts to hang quite right). Her toenails were unpainted, in case you were waiting for the tie-in to the subject header. She closed with "Send in the Clowns." Just like Joan Baez, this woman's soprano still rang true. In case I was confusing it with my hearing aid squeaking with feedback, other audience members confirmed that Ms. C's voice was magic. Throughout most of her singing I was able to close my eyes and let myself float on her notes. I really had to admire, too, as she is taking charge of her career and creating a record label. She's willing to go out there with the people who do the selling, is charming, businesslike and gracious all mixed up in one petite package. Her new label, "Wildflowers," has a new release "Live at Wolftrap" and contains many old favorites such as "Someday Soon," "Bird on the Wire" and more. Go buy it! MG np: Judy Collins, "Live at Wolftrap" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:10:36 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Jose attribution (was Prequel to Harry's House) Mark, of Mark-n-Travis fame, wrote, among other things: "Somehow giving the references to blindness a literal meaning just ruins the song for me. Chaka should have kept her mouth shut. Maybe it's some kind of running joke that the two of them have about the song. I prefer to be in denial on this subject!" Me now: Mark, I couldn't agree with you more. If the song was indeed inspired by a visit to Jose Feliciano's house, that would explain some of the more pointed references to blindness ("diamond dog, carrying a cup and cane"; "he gave her his darkness to regret") and the line about the "Latin drum," which never made much sense to me. But to me, the blindness in this song has always been spiritual in nature: a deep void in the life of this man, and probably, his wife or lover. The void seems inextricably linked to having sacrificed some essential facets of their beings to the pursuit of material success. To tie "blindness" too closely to *physical* blindness trivializes the larger points Joni is making here. So I proudly join Mark in denial, preferring to believe that, although Joni may have gotten some ideas for metaphors from visiting Jose or someone else, for that matter, she took those ideas and ran with them on her own. Mary P. P.S. Very good post, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:26:44 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC, Zen Looks At Art, Part 1 of 5, Long, "The brain to the heart, to the hands- it was all one fluid motion." Producer Eddie Kramer describing Jimi Hendrix in the studio from a report on National Public Radio last week covering the tv special. Here's the first of a 5 part excerpt on Art. Believe it or not, I've taken considerable pains to edit for brevity. Jim [It is easier and more useful to talk about what art *does* than what it *is* (my emphasis)...... (James) Joyce distinguishes between what he terms "proper" and improper" art. The pleasure of proper art, he calls "aesthetic arrest."..... The 'pleasures' of improper art are not the genuine pleasures appropriate to art, but impostors. These impostors, Joyce calls the "pornographic" and the "didactic." The "pleasure" of pornographic art is the excitement of the _desire to possess_ the object represented. Pornographic art is seen in the advertising barrage to which most of us are daily subjected. "Make the thing look sexy, alluring, sensually enticing, so they will want to possess it." The "pleasure," if you could call it that, of didactic art is the excitement of a sense of _fear and loathing_ in relation to the object represented (not unlike the "pleasure" many seem to get from watching horror films).....] - --- On 'proper' Art: [Georgia O'Keefe put it emphatically: "There is no man's art or woman's art; there is just Art." This capital A Art that Georgia O'Keefe is referring to above is what Joyce calls proper art. Joyce tells us that while improper art has a kinetic or moving quality, proper art has a _static_ or still quality. Improper art excites or moves the mind toward or away from its object. Proper art brings the mind to rest...... Joyce says that the pleasure of proper art is "aesthetic arrest," stopping or arresting the motions of the mind. In contemplation of the work of art, "the mind is arrested and raised above desire and loathing." This is exactly the goal of meditation - to arrest the mind - transcending attachment (desire) and repulsion (loathing). And so now we can see that art, proper art, in both its contemplation and in its practice, is indeed meditation - mind arresting. And this is Zen. The word Zen itself is Japanese for the Indian _dhyana_, usually translated "meditation."] [... We lose ourselves in art. As Arthur Schopenhauer noted, the contemplation of great art switches off the sense of "other." As we merge our consciousness with the art object, we lose the sense of ourselves as a thing apart. This "loss of self" is extremely pleasurable - echoing the transcendent bliss of the mystics. Likewise, in the PRACTICE OF ART, THE SENSE OF SELF IS LOST IN EC-STATIC ABSORBTION. (my emphasis, their spelling) One loses oneself and gains eternity. Moving safely between the twin whirlwinds of desire and repulsion, the artist enters into paradise.] page 31 from the "Zen and Art of Making a Living" by Laurence G. Boldt - ----- Now Jim again- what I get out of this is Hendrix was transported when he created and we are transported when we listen. The other proposed excerpts are very short by comparison. Apologies to those who recoil from philosophy with fear and loathing. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #504 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?