From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #494 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 12 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 494 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Freud and women's liberation (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Freud and women's liberation (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Freud, Frederich, Jung (NJC) [catman ] Re: Court and Spark ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: Happiness (NJC) (marcel content, though and a wee bit of Carly content) [catman ] Re: Freud, Frederich, Jung (NJC) ["Kakki" ] sick leave NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: sick leave NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: sick leave NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: rickie lee's new one NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: sick leave NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: sick leave NJC [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: sick leave NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Freud and women's liberation (NJC) [SMEBD@aol.com] Fwd: Freud, Frederich, Jung (NJC) [SMEBD@aol.com] Civil War Here NJC [catman ] jonatha brooke NJC ["mags woman" ] Re: Civil War Here NJC [Don Rowe ] Re: jonatha brooke NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Freud and women's liberation (NJC) [CarltonCT@aol.com] It Got Worse- Civil War Here NJC [catman ] Reminder ["Jamie Zubairi" ] RE: It Got Worse- Civil War Here NJC ["Chris Marshall" Subject: Re: Freud and women's liberation (NJC) Hi Clark, >In Victorian times, women had a 'duty' to their >husbands and they were supposed to close their eyes and >think of England. Freud was at the forefront of ending >women's sexual confinement. Nah, I think those fainting femmes from the Victorian days were having a lot more fun than we give them credit for. Maybe not as much as by today's standards or as open but they certainly weren't all repressed or confined until Freud set them free. They did their fair share of frolicking, they just kept it more under wraps, or long, bustled dresses, so to speak ;-) By the way, congrats on finishing the new album, Clark. Wished you could have been jamming with us last week at the fest! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:52:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Freud, Frederich, Jung (NJC) Kakki wrote: I can think of personal examples growing up where a female family member and three females friends who were experiencing physical ailments. They all had the same doctor who regarded all their complaints as neurotic or hysterical or psychosomatic and they were all told to seek therapy. All four women eventually ended up in intensive care with various life-threatening conditions because this doctor had dismissed their complaints and not run them through the most basic tests that he always ordered for his male patients. colin repl;ies: Unfortunately this is also true when the patient has had any form of psych treatment. Syptoms of disease are met with calls for more psych drugs. In 85 we moved. I immediately went to a dr and was examined BEFORE he had a chance to see my medical history. I was admittted to Kings College that day with severe liver disease(one of the side effects of some psych drugs). Recently I found out that for the last 12 years I have had Celiac's. I had all the syptoms but again this was put down to 'nuerosis'. I now have a new dr, a new diet, and feel terrific! I assumed we had to put up with this crap cos we didn't pay. Your letter tells me otherise! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:48:20 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Court and Spark To me the song is a reflection of the loss of direction many people have in modern society. The busker in the song represents many of those in society who drop out or just don't fit in or just go through life with no meaning or direction. They can't see their place in modern society and can see no way out. The busker has a vision of what the meaning of life is for him, he must share his life with someone, a woman to court and spark. It's a blinding flash of inspiration and he turns up on Joni's door full of the insight and understanding of the meaning of life. He has cleared his mind of the burden of guilt that shackles people in modern society. He explains his life to Joni but she is unable to leave her life in the city. I sent this previously but it didn't get through. It does follow on well from MG Val's last post though :) Alan http://www.hawleybeach.com Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:59:52 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Happiness (NJC) (marcel content, though and a wee bit of Carly content) One of my favouroite Carly songs. insightful and amusing and sooo true of many people I have met and also myself in the past! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:02:09 +0100 From: catman Subject: on mental health NJC Hello and welcome to the Mental Health Helpline. If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1 repeatedly, If you are co-dependant, please ask someone to press 2 for you. If you have multiple personalities, press 3,4,5 and 6. If you are paranoid, we know who you are and what you want. Stay on the line so we can trace your call. If you are delusional, press 7 and your call will be transferred to the mother ship. If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a small voice will tell you which number to press. If you are manic-depressive, it doesn't matter which number you press, no one will answer. If you have a nervous disorder, please fidget with the hash key until a representative comes on the line. If you have amnesia, press 8 and state your name, address, phone number, date of birth, social security number and your mother's maiden name. If you have bi-polar disorder, please leave a message after the beep or before the beep. Or after the beep. Please wait for the beep. If you have short-term memory loss, press 9. If you have short-term memory loss press 9. If you have short-term memory loss, press 9. If you have low self-esteem, please hang up. All our operators are too busy to talk to you anyway." - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 02:25:57 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Freud, Frederich, Jung (NJC) Hi Stephen, > Two problems here, as I see it: (1) the doctor sounds like a >bad doctor to me--obviously he should have taken the >symptoms/complaints seriously; and (2) many, if not most, >medical doctors are not well versed in psychology and > frequently don't have any appreciation or understanding of >the body-mind connection. This doctor certainly sounds as if >he didn't. Amazingly he graduated top of his class out of Johns Hopkins University Medical School. Because of those outward credentials his diagnoses went mostly unquestioned by his patients. "The doctor knows more than me, so he must be right" syndrome which used to be so prevalent. > I don't know that such notions originated from Freud. In the >cases that you talked about, it seems to me that the notions >originated from the doctor's own ignorance of medicine, >human behavior and psychology. Medical doctors frequently >ignore psychological symptoms or, as in your example, >ascribe what they can't explain to psychosomatic illness >("just a case of nerves"). But this doctor did not even do one test on these women - just summarily dismissed their complaints as psychological problems. Of course, the wrong notions originated from this awful doctor, but the psychological catch phrases he threw around carelessly stem from a root in Freudian thought. But you have a point that Freud may be given too much blame for some other professional's misinterpretation. My exposure to Freud-Lite at a mediocre state university probably did not give me a completely accurate picture, either. > I think that this has to do with their own sense of >grandousity--i.e., their own personality disorder, if you will. Actually, I think your "diagnosis" of this particular doctor is spot on. This is how I regarded him, too. He was also a very cold person and seemed quite repressed. I always wondered how someone with such promising credentials could go so far off the track. Good stuff, Stephen - you've actually presented a much more interesting and complex Freud than the one I knew yesterday ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:03:37 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: sick leave NJC Last Saturday morning at about 6 AM I was admitted at the new York Presbyterian hospital on York and 68th. My blood was found to be infected with the west Nile virus. I was flown back to Argentina thanks to my American Express medical insurance. I am home now and being taken care of by my dear friends Leonardo and Mabel. Mabel is typing this for me. Apart from the common symptoms [headaches, sore throat, high fever] the virus has affected my ability to move my legs and turn my head. I have also experienced respiratory failure. I won't be able to write for a while. I am totally aware that this is a temporary condition and I am not concerned at all, only very uncomfortable -- also very disappointed that I can't share my views on the Joni fest. David Lahm: if you're reading this -- or if someone else can let him know -- sorry about last Saturday. I was in the hospital. I love you all and I will miss you. Talk to you again surely in a few days. Wally Kairuz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:21:01 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: sick leave NJC In a message dated 9/12/00 6:10:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << Last Saturday morning at about 6 AM I was admitted at the new York Presbyterian hospital on York and 68th. My blood was found to be infected with the west Nile virus. >> Walter dear, please take care of yourself and know that we are all thinking of you. If there's anything I can do, just name it. I will send my healing thoughts down to you for a speedy recovery. We all love you too little buddy! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:44:07 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: sick leave NJC Wally, Best wishes towards your recovery! Really enjoyed spending time with you at jonifest. Espero que tu estara mas mejor! Vaya con Dios! Victor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:16:46 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: rickie lee's new one NJC Ricw1217@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/11/00 7:41:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > FredNow@aol.com > writes: > > << > Rickie Lee already did an album of covers/standards (Pop Pop), and > well > before Joni did hers. > > I heard Rickie Lee on TV the other night singing The Beatles' "For No > One" > with just piano accompaniment and it was heart rending and beautiful. > Made > me > want the album. > On the recording the piano accompaniment is by Joe Jackson. He was so wonderful at Joni's Jazz. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:04:54 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sick leave NJC Yeah Wally, I am also bummed that you were afflicted, but relieved to know you will be all right (hopefully very soon...shake your fists at lightning, my friend!) Do you need me to send you this Argentinian good luck bracelet I'm wearing? So far, I've had tons of good luck, and it's only been 2 weeks! I dare not cut it off! Bob NP: P.M. Dawn, "the nocturnal is in the house" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:47:33 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: sick leave NJC Wally, So sorry to hear that you contracted West Nile virus--I wish you a speedy recovery. Sending you good thoughts. Hope that we will be hearing from you soon. All the best, Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:49:50 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: sick leave NJC OHMYGOD, Wally!!! I can't believe what I just read!! Wishing you a fast recovery, and lots of healing hugs. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:46:34 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Freud and women's liberation (NJC) In a message dated 9/12/00 3:48:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << Freud's insights into sexuality and the differences and commonalities of men and women leads directly to feminism. For the first time, men and women were being told that masturbation and sexual desire were not only permissable, but normal and pleasurable. >> and <> I think that you make some good points here. Freud's work in the field of sexuality benefited both sexes and did, IMHO, contribute towards the feminist movement. Obviously his work was not the sole causative factor for feminism, but I think that part of his aim in treating women was to liberate them sexually and to acknowledge their intellectual abilities. This discussion about Freud caused me to look over one of his lectures, "The Psychology of Women," and in it he address various assumptions that were held at the time (perhaps some of them are still held--a scary thought). Freud didn't look at individuals in a vacuum--he did look at them in context (and we must look at Freud in a historical context). (Looking at Freud, or anyone in a historical context, isn't done to "excuse" them or relieve them of any responsibility for harm they may have caused, but it helps us to understand what they said and why they said it--it helps us to learn.) One other point, I don't think that Freud coined the term hysteria--I think that this term was used by the medical profession before Freud began to expand beyond his work as a neurologist into psychoanalysis. I think that there is confusion sometimes about this, just as there is frequent confusion about psychological terms. "Pop Psychology" and "Pop Culture" will often take a psychological term and "redefine" it and this can lead to great confusion. The use of the word "ego" is a good example. Freud used the word "ego" to refer to one of the three structures of personality (the id, ego and superego); Pop Psychology/culture often uses the term almost to mean narcissism. Enjoyed reading your thoughts. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:13:57 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Freud, Frederich, Jung (NJC) - --part1_12.222d6fc.26efa235_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_12.222d6fc.26efa235_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: SMEBD@aol.com Full-name: SME BD Message-ID: <52.878d2b.26efa1f7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:12:55 EDT Subject: Re: Freud, Frederich, Jung (NJC) To: KakkiB@worldnet.att.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 112 In a message dated 9/12/00 5:39:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Amazingly he graduated top of his class out of Johns Hopkins University Medical School. Because of those outward credentials his diagnoses went mostly unquestioned by his patients. "The doctor knows more than me, so he must be right" syndrome which used to be so prevalent. >> HI Kakki, Unfortunately this "doctor knows more than me" syndrome is still prevalent, and sometimes originates from the doctor (the "I am the doctor and therefore the expert" syndrome). It is amazing that some doctors seem to forget that it is our body and that since we live in it, we know a great deal about it. No two bodies are alike, nor do bodies follow the textbooks (for example, I rarely ever run a fever and have had strep throat without one--this isn't "supposed" to happen). My lover, Rusty, had a similar experience of going to doctors complaining of numbness in his leg. His complaints were dismissed as a "mild irritation of unknown cause," to "it must be HIV related" (because he is a gay man--he got tested and was negative), to tests don't show anything conclusive. He finally went to a doctor who recognized the symptoms as being common for disk/back problems. Rusty had 3 operations in a period of 18 months and we are going back to the doctor tomorrow to discuss the results of some tests he had last week, as he is still having problems, and will very likely have to have another operation. I also had a friend, who, when she was in her early 20s, began to cough up blood--numerous doctors ignored her symptoms (she was too young to have anything wrong; one doctor told her that she wasn't coughing up blood; etc.--very similar to what you described with the women that you know) until finally (doctor number 21) diagnosed her with a rare form of lung cancer (she never smoked). She had to have one lung removed. She later had a recurrence and had to have an inch of the other lung removed. She died a couple of years ago. I have often wondered what would have happened had the first doctor taken her seriously, or referred her to someone else when he couldn't figure out what was wrong (he told her she had bronchitis and that it would get better). I think that this happens all to often, and has happened more to women than to men because historically the medical profession has been male dominated. When some doctors couldn't relate to, or understand, a woman's complaint, he couldn't admit that he didn't know what was going on. Not all, but many, doctors experience a narcissistic injury when they can't "cure" someone and this sometimes results in their dismissing certain patients/symptoms. I guess that I am writing all of this to say that I hear what you say and don't discount it at all. I think that there is a great deal of room for improvement in both the medical and mental health professions. This has been an interesting discussion and it has certainly made me think. Stephen - --part1_12.222d6fc.26efa235_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:09:11 +0100 From: catman Subject: Civil War Here NJC Life is fun. We are without fuel. No petrol. No Gas. Nothing. We Brits have finally decided enough is enough and have blockaded the refineries in protest at the exhorbitant cost of fuel. We pay $7 per gallon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOST of that is TAX! It costs me $50 a week just to get around. City dwellers don't have the same expense but even so, petrol is just too high. I think life is going to get more difficult. No petrol today. How is food going to get top the suermarkets? The emergency services have their contigency plans. The arseholes in charge are planning to bring in the army instead of lowering the TAX!!!! - -- bw colin colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:18:54 EDT From: "mags woman" Subject: jonatha brooke NJC Still in composition mode re: my feelings and thoughts on the Fest...the writerly me is bubbling and brewing with all kinds of memories which will soon find their way to paper, I hope. I do have part of it written and wonder if I should just send it in and do the rest later. I dont want to miss out on anyone or anything. What a special group of people, our Joni community/family. I treasure so many moments. The weekend holds so much meaning...so difficult to do it justice. I also wanted to take a moment to support the recent Jonatha Brooke thread. Thanks to Brian, Im a huge fan of hers. She is amazing, soulful, moving. Check it out if you havent already. I like 'Live' a lot...especially the song Always. The synchronicity in this song is quite profound. looking forward to more.Always. love, Mags np: "I am here, yes I am always".... Always, from Live by Jonatha Brooke tks Bri ;) _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ hands alike magnet and iron the souls _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:20:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Civil War Here NJC - --- catman wrote: > We pay $7 > per > gallon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOST of > that is TAX! Somewhere in the dusty, darkened corners of my wasted mind, I remember somebody, somewhere raising a cry of "No taxation without representation." ;-) Don Rowe (ever the rebellious colonist) ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:23:30 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: jonatha brooke NJC mags woman wrote: > > > I also wanted to take a moment to support the recent Jonatha Brooke thread. > Thanks to Brian, Im a huge fan of hers. She is amazing, soulful, moving. > Check it out if you havent already. I like 'Live' a lot...especially the > song Always. The synchronicity in this song is quite profound. I got to see her last year at a small club for $12. Sure got my money's worth. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:28:28 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Re: Freud and women's liberation (NJC) Hey Stephen - Much agreed on your post. You are right, Freud did not coin the term hysteria which had been around for a while. The term came from what seems like a very silly belief that these women had a uterus which wandered from place to place. One of the first "hysterics" was treated by Freud's mentor, the diagnostician Josef Breuer, who referred to her as Anna O in his case. Using a combination of hypnotism and the early rudiments of "the talking cure" , Anna O was cured of some "hysterical" behaviors but the cure was temporary. Freud and Breuer published a book titled Studies in Hysteria using Anna O as their first case, and it was this book which launched the psychoanalytic revolution. Anna O was later identified as Bertha Pappenheim, a pioneering social worker who was honored by Germany on a stamp. - - Clark NP: Air ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:18:45 +0100 From: catman Subject: It Got Worse- Civil War Here NJC Have just been to the supermarket. NO FOOD! And they don't know when the next delivery will be. Fortunately my freezer is well stocked but no fresh veggies or frozen ones. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:42:45 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Reminder Hello Just a friendly reminder When the subject is off-Joni can people please remember to mark it 'NJC' or 'njc' and NOT 'EN JAY CEE' as this defeats the purpose of the sub-list. Thank you for reading this. I know that this is really NJC but some of you are being naughty! :oD Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:30:47 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: It Got Worse- Civil War Here NJC Colin wrote:- > Have just been to the supermarket. NO FOOD! And they don't know when the next delivery > will be. Fortunately my freezer is well stocked but no fresh veggies or frozen ones. Egads. Mind you, popular supposition reckons it'll be over by the weekend. Tony "Good listener" Blair has invoked special powers which mean that he can now send in the clowns (er, police, or army, or something... same difference) to clear access routes from the blockaded refineries. Laugably the government keep telling us that fuel tax hasn't risen very much in the last N years. Of course, they're talking percentages, hoping that us dumb punters won't see through the statistical bullshit. Yeah right. That 80% tax on fuel is a nice little earner when crude's up at $35 a barrel instead of $10. Of course, that "nice little earner" isn't being used to fund public transportation, which would remove some of people's reliance on cars, and hence stop 'em bitching so hard about fuel prices, lessen environmental impact and so on. It's going on health and schools. All very laudable, but those things are supposed to come out of things like income tax and national insurance. Bah. Who's for founding an independant principality somewhere? :-) - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:41:40 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Wind On The Water", CSN Content, NJC, 100% PC I've been enjoying a new copy of "Wind On the Water" by Crosby & Nash this past week. It's been remastered and it sounds much better on the big stereo. (Like most audiophile changes, I can't hear any difference on the boombox or the computer.) The old one had harsh sounding vocals and muddy sound in general. There were times when Nash especially sounded uhh.... digital. But no more. This album has the tribute called "To the Last Whale" with its beautiful fugue at the beginning called "Critical Mass". I would really, really like to hear some brave pair attempt this piece live. So, the old copy of "Wind On the Water" is going onto a Dollyshit pile for next year, along with the books-on-cassette of selected readings from Nietzsche. np: Oscar Peterson Trio: "Night Train" All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu This post has been *APPROVED* by the international board for Pollyanna Content. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:13:44 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Nick Drake film premier report(NJC) > > Did any on on the list go to the ND film premier last night? How was it? > > How about the concert? > > > > Tris > > > The Nick Drake night yesterday at the Paradiso, Amsterdam was absolutely > brilliant!! They started off with a string orchestra (dutch!) directed by > Robert Kirby and with Ben on Guitar (quote Kirby:"We couldn't find anyone > who could play the guitar parts of Nick until we met the young Ben Parker"). > It was chilling, so beautiful. With many, many compliments to Ben, who > played his parts very precize. > After that there was the film, a very good film indeed, filmed very > intimate. > And finally there were Ben & Jason (with the string orchestra again)!! They > played a very short set, I thought it was 5 songs they played. They played > 'Joe's Ark', 2 new songs (great!!), 'Halfway up a tree' and 'Pink Moon'. > Beth Orton rounded off a perfect evening. > > sigh.... > > Hanz (from Utrecht, Holland) > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:22:39 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Fw: P-t-B: Nick Drake night at Paradiso(NJC) long... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Moenkedieck To: Place-to-Be@cogsci.ed.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 5:21 PM Subject: P-t-B: Nick Drake night at Paradiso Hi - my name is Harald Moenkedieck. I'm German and live a little south of Bremen in the northern part of the country. This is my first P-t-B post, I'm afraid. I've been a silent list member for maybe a year and a half now (I joined the list when Scott A. was still posting) but a Nick fan since I bought Pink Moon in 1977. I used to listen to a British DJ here in Germany named Alan Bangs all the time. Alan worked for BFBS as a freelancer for many years. His "Night Flight" show is a certified classic for many folks over here of my generation (I was born in 1959) and he became a famous "Rockpalast" TV person afterwards. But he started with a show called "The Saturday Show" on Saturday mornings. This was where I first heard Nick's music. I don't know exactly why I never posted before, but Nick's case if different from many other artist's discussion groups in a way I do not quite understand. And I don't want to analyse. Also, it's a quite eloquent group of people that do the majority of the postings and being German it's sometimes hard to ignore the deficiencies of "non-native-speakerdom", if you know what I mean. But as is the case with most of you, this music has been very important to me over the past 20 years or so and amazingly, it looks that it will continue to be an inspiring presence in my life in the future. Anyway, I took the 4 1/2 hour drive to Amsterdam yesterday to be a part of the Nick Drake night at Paradiso. It's always great to be in this city, but this time was special and the event was certainly something I will not forget. It was a resounding success for all involved, I guess - especial for those who staged it, of course. It was also very hot! I was struck by the fact that the lighting was quite intense sometimes - even on the audience - and the lack of air condition made it a pretty sweaty affair - especially for the artists. On the downside, there was a continuous hum in the P.A. from the lights, but as the music was so strong and beautiful, it was easy to ignore after a while. I did not take notes, this is all from memory so bear with me.... After waiting for what seemed like a long time, a youthful looking woman climbed the stage from the audience, introducing herself with some Dutch words I could not understand and "I am Gabrielle, sister of Nick Drake....". She looked very beautiful - certainly no strange to the stage - and seemed to be very happy to be hosting the evening. With her immaculate presence and choice of words she radiated an air of refined Englishness, A quality which is in many ways also present in her brother's music, of course. She continued by saying (roughly): "let me tell you about my brother..." reminiscing about his ways, his stubbornness when it came to having things his way and getting exactly the shoes he wanted when the familiy went shopping. She stressed the fact that Nick was stubborn when it came to his music as well - then read an extract from a letter he wrote to Rodney and Molly about Robert Kirby. It was very favorable, of course, leading into her introducing Robert to the audience. It was quite funny because the long hair mentioned in the letter has given way to a gleaming pate and the stockiness also mentioned in the letter is quite, er, visible these days. But he seems to be a very jovial character and genuinely happy to contribute to this night. He introduced the ensemble of Dutch players for the evening with the highest praise and stressed the fact that they had had "very little time to rehearse". Nervousness was palpable from where I sat (about row 10 central). The ensemble entered the stage: 2 violins, 1 viola, 1 cello, 1 double bass, 1 flute, 1 oboe. Last but not least and after an unsettling moment of "no-show", Ben Parker joined this cast with a guitar, after having received Robert's praise of being the only one they met who could play Nick's parts convincingly. Ben was very nervous, it seemed. They played "Introduction", "The Thoughts of Mary Jane", "Fruit Tree", "Day is Done", "Way to Blue" and "Sunday". It was magic, of course. I felt my jaw drop as soon as the strings set in. I have listened to these songs for a number of decades by now and hearing this music live made me quite emotional. Ben did a great job of playing the Nick's original parts (I do know how to play most of the stuff myself.... so, WELL DONE, Ben) and the strings were the exact same as one the records. Robert mentioned the fact (forgetting to speak into the mic sometimes) that he had forgotten where he had put the arrangements for a long time but finally found them in "my mother's shed in Norfolk". Now they are computerized and safe for eternity. AND - Brian Wells was present and had provided Nick's final guitar (not the Guild) for Ben to play on. Ben changed between a Martin dreadnought and this special Martin 00-something. Another premiere in itself... So - as moving as listened to this LIVE music was, there was something missing - Nick's voice and personality. It was a little bit like seeing Mona Lisa without the lips, still beautiful but not perfect. And everyone was sweating intensely... After that Gabrielle took the stage again, raving about Jeroen Berkvens and his persistence in making this film project a reality, telling the story of how Jeroen had approached her. It was clear that Gabrielle really loves this documentary and she gets to play a major part in it, of course. Being familiar with the BBC docu myself, I must say that this really is a very beautiful film by someone who obviously loves the music. And who knows about creating the right pictures to go along with it. While not providing a great deal of new information, there are some wonderful sequences, for instance: home movies of the Drake family, very atmospheric sequences centering around Nick's room, Tanworth-in-Arden through the seasons, John Wood and Robert Kirby demonstrating the arrangement of "At the Chime...." in the studio complete with a "late-night rainy London" sequence. The 48-or so minutes went by in a flash and the audience was spellbound. It ends with a home movie: the Drake family on a beach in Burma with Nick about 3 years old. "Northern Star" is the song the film builds up to and ends with. A bit of silence - then huge applause. Hugs between those involved and a visibly moved Gabrielle Drake taking the stage again with more words of thanks and respect. She went on to explain that those involved had agreed upon making the night a celebration and how "very very pleased Nick would have been" if he had known how his work would continue to inspire young musicians. Such as Ben & Jason and Beth Orton, who were to take the stage (with the string ensemble) in part two of the program called "The Legacy". "Nick's tragedy has turned into triumph," Gabrielle said. She then accepted thanks of folks coming up to her and I saw a long hug between her and Brian Wells as well. Jeroen Berkvens and his producer looked very happy, indeed. By the way - before the program had started, I had a chance of speaking to Ian Matthews who was in the audience. Having worked for a German record company who has put out some of his albums in the past, made this an easy task... I mentioned to Ian the fact how so many people are still fascinated about this era of the late 60s and early 70s in London, with Island Records and all the great artists making records for this particular company. Asking him about his feelings about this he said: "I never really think about it all that much, but people ask me all the time, and I'm right in the middle of writing my memoirs, so ..." Maybe Ian Matthews will share some of his feelings about this era in his upcoming book... Upstairs when part two started, I was pretty much drained but there was still some energy left for Ben & Jason who I had never heard before. Ben was much more relaxed and Robert Kirby praised the arranging skills of Jason once again. Their set was too brief. I listened to one of Beth Orton's songs but found myself too tired to get into her stuff. It was close to midnight and I had to go back to Germany after all. When leaving the room I noticed Ben Parker leaning against a wall, listening to Beth. I complimented him on his music and playing and he seemed to be overjoyed about having taken part in this night. A night not to be forgotten , that's for sure. Harald P.S. My personal pilgrimage to T-i-A and London is still in the works, so thanks to those of you who have provided their thoughts on the experience. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:39:41 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Re: It Got Worse- Civil War Here NJC Well, having heard on the National news tonight that even aviation fuel is under threat, I have just changed my flight to Scotland from Thursday morning to Wednesday evening. Failing that, I have made contingency plans to get a train from Cambridge to Aberdeen. The things we do for love . . . . . Hopefully I'll be "travelling in some vehicle" later today! Wish me luck! - -- Stevie - ----- Original Message ----- From: "catman" To: "Don Rowe" Cc: Sent: 12 September 2000 20:18 Subject: It Got Worse- Civil War Here NJC > > > Have just been to the supermarket. NO FOOD! And they don't know when the next delivery > will be. Fortunately my freezer is well stocked but no fresh veggies or frozen ones. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:48:49 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: It Got Worse- Civil War Here NJC > It's going on health and schools. I don't see where when you consider the state of both. John pays about £200 (pounds) per month on NI, yet has to pay for dentist, optician, prescriptions and to get an operation before he dies if if he needs one! I think the money goes on things like The Dome(nearly £1000 million now) and govt perks, the Royals and lots of other shit. Oh and in aid to other countries and to the EU. According to the latest, we now have more people living below the breadline than ever before whilst the rest of us are better off than ever before. something is not right. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:49:00 EDT From: "mags woman" Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: when words fall from Joni Fest memories ...] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_588c_40ed_36f0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: pat holden >To: mags_woman@hotmail.com >Subject: [Fwd: when words fall from Joni Fest memories ...] >Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:53:53 -0500 > > > >-- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ >----------------------------------------- > _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ hands alike magnet and iron the souls _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------=_NextPart_000_588c_40ed_36f0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Envelope-to: pholden@iprimus.ca Delivery-date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:02:01 -0400 Received: from ppp-143.m2-6.hamilton.primus.ca ([209.90.170.143] helo=iprimus.ca) by mail2.tor.primus.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 13Y8cJ-0006vQ-04 for pholden@iprimus.ca; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:02:00 -0400 Message-ID: <39BBAFA0.F41A8D8B@iprimus.ca> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:58:24 -0500 From: pat holden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pholden@iprimus.ca Subject: when words fall from Joni Fest memories ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Just home from a long and hectic day at work, have had dinns, and am now settling into the hope that my words will fall onto this page, allowing me to express at least some of what I feel about the Labour Day Fest weekend. First of all, to reiterate the chorus of everyone there, GO. Do yourself a favour and just do it. You will not regret it for one moment. The only regret I have is that it went by so quickly, and here I sit, one week later to the day, soaking in the memories and the feelings of surreal. As the Pazman said...I miss you all terribly..and I can concur with his wise words that I felt things I havent felt in years. So yea, let's get together and buy that house across from Asharas! Gratitude, love, friendship, kindred spirits, music, laughter, tears, joy...unspeakable joy...and as I said earlier this week, I feel that I have found a place where I belong..and for this I am eternally grateful. I know Im not alone in that feeling, I heard from others who feel/felt the same. And the ultimate question remains: how is this possible? One of the most moving highlights for me was meeting Anne Sandstrom. When you appeared, looking healthy and beautiful it rendered me speechless! It was fantastic to hear your voice, your words, both singing and speaking. That moment you shared with Brian and I on the porch at the church remains so special and precious to us. Anne, it was wonderful to finally give you that long promised hug and just so you know....I have a candle lit for you as I write...I continue to keep you in my thoughts every day, with hope for you. I can only begin to imagine what your life has been like through all the trials you faced..and I admire you so much. It was so moving to hear your story and to share hugs and encouragement. Im so glad that our support helped you through your difficult times. I continue to believe in the spirit and in the strength of all of us in this community and joni family who put forth hope even when the dragons seem so terrible and fierce. Thanks to Les for making 'us' possible...without your incredible and humble efforts to maintain the list, we would not be we. Words will never adequately express the gratitude I feel, and again, I know Im not alone in this one... we are indebted to you for everything you do for us. I am sure that there is a lot more work involved than any of us realize...so many things that you do that no one is aware of; thanks for that too. Ashara...oh wise, warm, wonderful Queen Bee....kindred spirit of Loreena, Joni and so much more. Your energy is amazing..your willingness to care for all of us in this way by sharing your home and heart...incredible! I can well imagine what it took to pull this off (again!) and it is with the warmest, deepest, heartfelt thanks that I draw attention to everything you did for all of us....from photos to gifts of prints to mega-Ashara-hugs to putting up with phone calls from the road, to opening your home and heart to us in the middle of the night...to looks of reassurance, knowing that you get it. All of it. Thank you for sharing the Mendel video and the bungee jumping video....whoa girl you are so brave!!! You are such a special woman, with such a generous heart. Thank you for Loreena too, it is beautiful ! I know there are countless things you've done for us in the way of preparations that we dont know about either...well, we noticed your hard work and we appreciate all of it. Sal is a saint, it was wonderful to meet him too and I want to thank him for his generosity as well. Maggie....wonderous magician of cookery...feeding our bodies, spirits and souls with all your culinary delights...and to allow us to take part in the preparations was so special. Thank you for everything, your kindness, your warmth, and especially for hanging in there for us when you werent feeling well. It was an honour to share counter space with you...Ive never had so much fun in the kitchen and it was special that you let us make the infamous Mags potato salad..all Canadian at that ;) Chuck...another magician....of the sound and musical kind. Chuck took to the keys and encouraged all of us to sing along. Another soul who puts so much into every detail....thank you for providing so much so that everything could run so smoothly. It was so sweet to listen to the story of how you courted your wife with Joni tunes...especially Case of You, a song which is so near and dear to my heart. Sorry we missed your band at Atty May's....all I can say is...next trip!!! Heather.....Im sorry we didnt get more time to talk...it was wonderful meeting you...thank you so much for the name tags..which really are little pieces of art....precious reminders of this joyous time shared by all of us. A wonderful way to make us feel so welcome and special...signifiers of special moments shared. I am so afraid I will leave out names or forget special moments...I will blame my old bat brain if I do ;)..... to my new found brothers and sisters....I will treasure and cherish each and every moment we shared. How I wish I could have had more time with you. To those of you who I was unable to speak with this time, I hope that will change on the next meeting. Jimmy my beautiful bro from Florida....you are the one who drew me into the jmdl crowd in the beginning, encouraged me to talk way back in April when I first joined..I was so shy (still am to a degree) to speak any of my stories and you cheered me on. You always checked in on me when I was too quiet on the list, which made me feel so special. Yes our conversations around Court and Spark remain ever precious to me as well. Thank you so much for your inscription. You are an amazing person and I wish you werent so far away from us! dont be surprised if we take you up on your offer to visit, specially since Brian loves to go on long drives ;) Thank you for your memorable hugs which have left an imprint on my heart. Bob Mueller..brother in joni....meister of CD land....thank you for everything...you know what I mean. You are a wonderful, kind, warm kindred spirit and such a good friend to us. Thank you for your kind words and for getting it. Wallistah...my passionate, beautiful buenos aires bro...Im still wearing my bracelet...I think I left my feather earrings at Asharas though :(( I dont think I will take off this bracelet any time soon, it holds the memories of so many incredible moments . You are a man of great spirit and heart and I must take this opportunity to thank you for holding my hand through rough times of late. It was a great joy to hear you sing too..your interpretations of so many tunes knocked me over. Nikki sweet Nikki....how wonderful to have the pleasure of meeting you and listening to your Joni stories. Thanks for making this such a special time for me, since it was my first Fest too...I still have the image of you hugging your guitar while sitting on the floor in the music room, playing and playing to your heart's content. Your views on Joni and life are so refreshing. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - ------=_NextPart_000_588c_40ed_36f0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:50:08 EDT From: "mags woman" Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: the gushing of summer Fests ... part two ...] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_7f97_41cb_76bd Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: pat holden >To: mags_woman@hotmail.com >Subject: [Fwd: the gushing of summer Fests ... part two ...] >Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:54:37 -0500 > > > >-- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ >----------------------------------------- > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------=_NextPart_000_7f97_41cb_76bd Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Envelope-to: pholden@iprimus.ca Delivery-date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:30:47 -0400 Received: from dialin-134-92.hamilton.primus.ca ([209.90.134.92] helo=iprimus.ca) by mail4.tor.primus.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 13YupO-0002tG-07 for pholden@iprimus.ca; Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:30:43 -0400 Message-ID: <39BE844D.621770AF@iprimus.ca> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:30:22 -0500 From: pat holden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pat holden Subject: Re: the gushing of summer Fests ... part two ... References: <39BE797E.6060DA6B@iprimus.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 mags wrote: > This is my next attempt to continue on with the > gushing that I feel inside my heart for all of you. > > Seeing the Fest pix up on the official Fest page is > bringing it all back to me...all I can say is what a > wonderful time we all had... again and again..if you > can find ANY way to get to Asharas next year....do > it!!!! You wont regret a moment of it. I promise. > > Julius, when I look at that pic of you in the grey > car, grey sweater..i see the light shining from your > face...this image captures 'you' and exemplifies what > I saw in you all weekend...beaming, smiling, light > hearted man of spirit and graciousness. warm kindred > spirit, it was wonderful to meet you and listen to > your stories. > > Victor....singing a song he IS the piano man.....wow > ... where are the words to express how i feel about > this renaissance man of the musical realm. Thank you > so much for countless hours and hours of song, guitar, > piano, voice, story....it was very special to finally > meet you Victor. Brian and I will enjoy your CD very > much..for years to come. Fond memories. Your energy is > amazing! > > The infamous and beauteous Lady of the Canyon > herself....Miss Kakki or Kaahhhkkkkiiiiiiiii oh how > wonderful it was to meet you finally! You are the > quintessential LA woman....such character and style. > One of the many highlights of this weekend of love and > community was when Ashara gave Kakki this most amazing > Martini clock and it suits so well. Thanks for making > the long trek ... we are all so lucky to know you. > Love all of your stories girl ! > > Bob Murphy....quiet , gentle soul with a big heart and > a wonderful sense of humour...your stories made me > laugh so hard. Thanks for everything..it was wonderful > to finally meet you...and thank you for doing all the > great captions for the Fest page. You are a warm > hearted man and we are so lucky you have joined our > family. Another brave heart first time Fester. :) > > When people refer to our very own Claud as an angel > when she sings, believe it...a woman of fine talent > and quiet strength ...her voice is to die for. Claud > you are an amazing woman and you certainly have left > us all on "claud9" ! I loved Conversation so much..it > was beautiful beyond words. One of my very favourite > songs. > > And speaking of song birds....Jenny....my my > myyyygooodnesss what a beautiful voice you have! I > loved hearing Bruce Cockburn...Canadian content thank > you thank you.....Jenny is definitely worth the > trip...everyone is..what am i saying?? Thanks to Erik > for joining us too! > > This is a lot harder than I realized......*sigh* just > so much emotion going on. > > Leslie Mixon, the girl from Brooklyn ;) and her > sweetie Steve....two very talented, gifted, wonderful > musicians who kept us all going throughout the > weekend. It was fun jam jam jamming with you Leslie > and Chuck too, on keys...fond , fond memories. Steve > makes mando playing look easy...trust me here, he's > amazing. His quiet presence just filtered through > everything that was going on. His melodies and > harmonies were woven through like fine tapestries .. > golden threads....delicious. > > The Pazman...Oh Michael it was so good to meet you > finally and to hear that everything was going as well > as can be expected with your Dad. I hold you both in > my thoughts still. Thank you so much for the feast of > shrimp and especially for burning the keys and the > midnight oil and for indulging me with chords of Sarah > MacLachlan. Possession has always been one of my very > favourite tunes and it was great to have an > opportunity to sing with you. Shy me wouldnt do it any > other way than into the wee hours with nearly everyone > gone to bed. It was a special time for me. You are an > amazing , gifted man of music, heart and spirit. thank > you so much for taking the time out to join us all in > the spirit of Joni . I see what Brian means by the > fact that the Fest would not have been the same > without you. Your presence is incredible. > > And speaking of men with presence....and > chocolate...none other than our very own King of > chocolate....John VanT. What a gentle giant of a man > you are. So tender and kind and fun and funny ! Thank > you for your kindness and support which I will > remember always. I do appreciate the protective spirit > of the Joni men. Another wonderful story teller at > that! > > Jody woman! You are a sweet and awesome kindred > spirit. You made me laugh so hard...and I just HAVE > to thank you for sharing in the girlie girl gigglies > of Saturday night...or should I say morning? ;) Thanks > for getting it!! By the way, Brian tells me that it > was so much easier for you to negotiate your way > around this year sans crutches ;)) > > Alison, kindred spirit of the email realm, good to > finally meet you and to hear your stories..at least a > part of them. Once again, the synchronicity is > astounding and I appreciate your perspective on > things. Thank you for sharing from the heart. > > Joe, you are a sweet, quiet wonderful man..wish we had > more time to talk. Same goes for Jeff....as I said > earlier....it was impossible to talk with everyone in > the way that I wanted to. MG, I hope we can talk soon. > My impossible dream to really get to know everyone in > one weekend...it's just not possible...so > Ashara....next year really really IS on isnt it???? > please please????? > > Patrick L....it was good to meet you and to hear your > views on Joni and feminism...hope to continue that > talk next year too. It was way too late to really do > that conversation justice. :))) Or should I say > early....see? It all depends on how you look at > things. > > To reiterate...to my new found family, my beautiful > brothers and sisters in Joni...if i didnt speak with > you, it was only due to the fact that it was > impossible this time for a number of reasons. I hope > you understand. I hope to change that next year or > sooner if the opportunity allows me to. I know Ive > missed out on some very special people and > conversations. To say that I have grown as a result of > finding this wonderful Joni family is an > understatement. > > And finally, last but not least, the greatest gift of > all in this whole Joni experience is the discovery of > the love of my life, my best friend Brian. Thank you > from the bottom of my heart for hours upon hours of > talk, support and love. You are truly special. You > have made such a difference in my life and I treasure > each and every moment shared. Always looking forward > to more. > > love to all of you, you are all very unique and > incredible people ... I am honoured to know you. To > all of you, as Brian says, welcome home. > > love, > Mags p.s....here's a good example of my old bat brain at work...nearly forgot to mention Catgirl and Walter sweeping in seemingly out of nowhere...what a wonderful woman you are Cat..beautiful voice and amazing guitar playing too....It was so good to touch base and to share synchronicities with you and Walter both. Much love and luck to you as you continue down your road together. Thank you for sharing your stories with us. > > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _~O > / /\_, > ___/\ > /_ > ----------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - ------=_NextPart_000_7f97_41cb_76bd-- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #494 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?