From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #466 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Friday, August 25 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 466 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Coyote - why a defector? (md) ["Kakki" ] Re: Lahm's Coyote ["Kakki" ] Re: Re:While we're on the subject of BSN... ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Native American Music NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Jonatha info for you (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] I Met Sophie Tucker!! (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Brian, Herbie&Wayne NJC [w evans ] Starbucks in Virginia Highlands(NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Ribbons [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Lyrics ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: no joni content NJC ["gene mock" ] Re: Coyote (now Hejira) ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Ribbons [Susan McNamara ] Re: Ribbons [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Coyote (now Hejira) (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Old Lady of the Year [Steve Dulson ] Re: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade? ["Lance Parauka" ] native american music NJC [RandyRemote ] Re: At Last [Kenny Grant ] CDr trading ["Eric Wilcox" ] Paul McCartney (NJC) ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re: popular vs. passionate [B Merrill ] Touring ["Eric Wilcox" ] Re: Touring [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Upcoming New England Joni-fest (NJC) [Loren Carter ] The Arrangement Lyric Question [Emmy M Burns ] Re: The Arrangement Lyric Question ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Paul McCartney (NJC) [RandyRemote ] Paul was always the cutest...njc ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: Old Lady of the Year ["Kakki" ] Rolling Stone Thread Research, NJC, Librarian Needed ["Jim L'Hommedieu" <] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #464 [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade?, NJC, Grateful Dead content ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Upcoming New England Joni-fest [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Paul McCartney (NJC) ["C.A. Starkey" ] Re: NJC Robbie Robertson ["Bill Pearson" ] Trades (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Rolling Stone Thread Research, NJC, Librarian Needed ["Kakki" ] Re: Rolling Stone Thread Research, NJC, Librarian Needed ["Jim L'Hommedie] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:21:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? (md) Marcel, There's a lot to chew on here and you've hit on some interesting points: > When I look at the works prior to Hissing I see MOA which >is a live album and before that all the cool early albums well >before she embarced on the radical trails that would come >later. Hissing of course is very very different than anything >before it. Hejira at the same time is different than anything >AFTER it. Yet it is an album in tone and feel that is closer >than what came before Hissing than after Hejira. (are you >following this?) Yes. While we could say that each of Joni's albums stand alone to some extent, Hejira is distinctly difficult to trace to any prior origins, or to be referenced as an origin for subsequent works. Even some of her later more distinctive albums, such as DJRD, Mingus and DED, can be traced or linked, at least musically, to some of the others. Hejira is a relative to none and is sort of her "alien" child ;-) >My guess is that she could be talking about relationships but >if she is it is my guess that she is talking about that in >conjunction with her music. Hejira sits at he crossroads of >her career. The point at which she could never turn back. >She doesnt return to this "mood" or style for another 7 >albums in Night Ride Home. I think you are on to something here and look forward to your insight into this "riddle" that I have also always wondered about. > Furthermore, based on the impressions I picked up from >DED she began with Hejira a future metamorphosis into the >creation of the LAMM. Do you think that the "L.A. Music Mafia" was created or came into prominence in the mid 1970s? How did this happen, I wonder? The music biz in L.A. prior to that time gave us all the early Joni, plus much of the most innovative and fantastic music of the half century. The list is way to long to recite. I have always thought that most of the music that came out starting in the mid-70s was more manufactured or slick and less interesting than the music in the period that had just preceeded it. Long before the L.A. biz got well-established, the biz in New York, Philadelphia and Detroit had a tradition of dictating to the artists for the most part. How did that come to happen in L.A.? The large corporate buy-outs? The changing of some guard? Too much cash, drugs, burn-out? >I think (and have felt) that the reference to Amelia Erhardt is >a direct reference to herself. here was a woman competing in >what was known to be strictly the realm of men. In trying to >set a universal record of achievement in this field she died. >While Joni didnt die the refrence to Icarus is a closer >analogy. In trying to reach the heavens her wings burned up >and she crashed to earth. Pretty clear metaphor if you ask >me. I also feel that she is referring to herself and the analogy to Earhart may go deeper than appears on the surface. > I am currently working on a chronology of this and will >post >it soon. It promises to be thought provoking. I'm sure it will be and am looking forward to it! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:52:51 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Lahm's Coyote Chris wrote to Lahm: > And it must really be great to play it so well! Your "Coyote" >is so playfully done - easily my favorite on the "Jazz >Takes..." effort. Bravo, David! I'll take this moment to say >Thank You. - Yes, Lahm gives us a happy and delightful Coyote!! Hearing his, and many other jmdlers, takes has really enhanced my appreciation of many of Joni's songs. Often, it is like hearing them anew for me. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:15:31 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Re:While we're on the subject of BSN... Rose wrote: >While I was shopping at Annie Sez a few weeks ago I heard Bonnie Raitt's >version of At Last. She Rocks!!! I searched a few of her webpages to see if I >could locate the album this song was on, but to no avail. Can any of you >music sluts help me out here?? Bob Muller??? I've got all of Bonnie "official" recordings, ie. no bootlegs, and At Last doesn't appear on any of them. I think Bob may be right, in that it's a new disc, or an early release? Speaking of Bonnie, I was browsing her website today, and saw the following from on on-line chat with her, back in January: Question: Bonnie, is there anyone in particular that you would like to collaborate with? Bonnie: I've been so lucky to have played with most of my heroes and favorite musicians. Keith Richards is someone I would love to work with, and we are talking about something down the line. I'd love to work with Joni Mitchell, Randy Newman, and a whole host of soul and blues singers. Now that would be a "must buy" for me! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:20:31 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Jonatha info for you (NJC) Michael wrote: >I got this in my mailbox today and thought I would pass it on for your info. >I can't wait to see her live. Please come to New Orleans Jonatha. And can I add please come to NZ? I was listening to 10 Cent Wings and Plumb today, and I'm loving them more and more! Then I was browsing her website, and saw this: "So, we've been working away on the new record. We've decided to release it in January so we can really take the time to set it up. If we released it in the fall, we'd have to compete with Christina Aguilera's greatest Christmas croons, and Eminem's born again folk album. January seems like a better opportunity." Which had me laughing, then I suddenly thought, 'Oh my God, what if she's not joking?!" Then I read: "Neil Finn came by and sang on "New Dress". (Oh my heart)." A New Zealand connection! I knew there was a good reason I liked her so much! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 06:30:12 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Native American Music NJC In a message dated 8/25/00 12:26:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << << off topic: i'm looking for some native american indian music...i dont even know where to begin. >> << Robbie Robertson did a nice record a couple years back...someone help me with the title...I don't have it but I've heard it and it's very good. >> You may be thinking of: Robbie Robertson and the Red Road Ensemble Music for: The Native Americans A really excellent CD!!! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:14:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonatha info for you (NJC) << I was listening to 10 Cent Wings and Plumb today, and I'm loving them more and more! >> And I'll chime in and say that if you want a "new" "Jonatha Brooke" record, go pick up The Story's "The Angel In The House". I did (on Chuck E's advice) and I was ecstatic! It's a beautiful record, as good as Plumb. My wife likes Jonatha a lot too, and we were cruising around in the car listening to it and commenting that it was like Jonatha had a new record out. I love when I discover something like this, and grateful for the recommendations I read here... So if you're a Jonatha fan, and don't have this one, go get it, you'll be glad you did... Bob NP: Joni, "Trouble Child" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:15:39 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: I Met Sophie Tucker!! (NJC) I think some of you have mentioned the great singer, Sophie Tucker in previous posts before, (or maybe I am hallcinating that you may be interested in this.) Yesterday, Sal brought me in to Boston for a "surprise" birthday present. He took the day off, and we headed into Boston for a walking tour of Boston with Sophie Tucker, the "Red Hot Mama" singer of the early part of the century. "Sophie" led us all around Boston for 3 hours, telling us all about Vaudevelle, Burlesque, Follies and what was happening "now," in 1928. Knowing I had many simliarities with Sophie; being a singer, from Jewish heritage, and many other things, he thought it would be a perfect thing to do. It was a great day! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:16:21 -0400 (EDT) From: w evans Subject: Re: Brian, Herbie&Wayne NJC > to be so much of a music slut. Also purchased tickets for the Brian > Wilson Pet Sounds tour (we're taking Jim Johanson to the Brian Wilson > show) and Herbie Hancock with Wayne Shorter at the Santa Cruz Civic > Auditorium! > > A lucky girl. Anyone else have some exciting concerts coming up? > > Leslie Leslie.... For the last two months or so I've been obsessed with Brian Wilson's music, largely because the activity on the petsounds mailing list has been very heavy as a result of his tour and because all the BB 70s albums went back in print this month. (If you get only one, get "Sunflower") I went to see Brian's show in Atlanta, and I felt incredibly moved by the experience, but my understanding is that that is because I am one of those people who emotionally "gets" Brian and is incredibly moved by his presence and what lies underneath his singing, even when he is appearing robotic and monotonous because of his incredible stage fright. It's definitely not what we usually expect in a concert, but it's still unlike any show you've ever seen and a bit like going to a really inspiring support group-- I'm really glad you're going and I expect a full report! But I've gotten the idea that people who don't get Brian at that level have been disappointed because there is something a bit weird in his execution these days. Also, I saw Herbie and Wayne perform just as a duo three years ago, shortly after their "1+1" album was out. Do you have that album? If so, I would like you to tell us after the show if their performance this year is similar to that style or how it differs if it does. Thanks. :o) - --ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:42:40 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Starbucks in Virginia Highlands(NJC) Atlanta folk: I'll be playing tonight on a really cool deck at the Starbucks in Virginia Highlands tonight from 8 to 11 or so. I'll be sure to throw lots of Joni songs in(and other cool flavors as well) so come and hang for awhile. There happens to be a Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream store downstairs as well. Victor...flying to Boston exactly one week from this very minute ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:05:40 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Tape Tree(?) NJC Michael asked if there are any Tape Trees coming up. Hmmm. From what I see, yes and no. There are at least two folks with enough seed material but..... uhh.... we have... uhmmm... political....gridlock. There. Surfice it to say that it takes more than a seed to make a tree- it takes a community to raise a tree. :) Okay, the way out of this is probably to raise awareness (how very 60s). Is there any enthusiasm for a new tree in the house? - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Hi All > Just wondering if there is a tape tree coming up? np: a new sage who reminds JMDL, "If the shit ain't killed us, we must be stronger." Bryan Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:31:23 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Ribbons "Is your silence that golden? Are you comfortable in it? Is it the key to your freedom, or is it the bars on your prison? Are you gagged by your ribbons? Are you really exclusive, or just miserly? You spend every sentence as if it was marked currency!" Someone offered these lines as an example of well expressed anger. I agree, but what does the line "Are you gagged by your ribbons?" mean? All ideas welcome, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:31:57 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Lyrics This brings up the (to me) fascinating subject of Joni's referencing earlier work in her songs...I have always been fascinated with artists (and Joni in particular) using references to earlier work in new things. My favorite example of this is in "My Secret Place", where she says "Out of all of the girls that you see in bleachers and cafe windows..." which always brought back memories of "Blonde in the Bleachers" and "The Last Time I Saw Richard." Maybe she meant to subtly reference these songs, maybe she didn't. But the line definitely brought my memory back to that place. I love that. I had not ever thought of the Cactus Tree connection...that's neat. Reuben np: Hejira >>> "Mark or Travis" 08/24/00 Another image that Joni uses more than once is the cactus tree. In the song of that name on STAS and in the line from 'Amelia' about the Cactus Tree Motel. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 06:37:32 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: no joni content NJC ***** Canyon Artists Nominated for 2nd Annual Native American Music Awards***** Canyon Records is proud to announce that many of our artist have been nominated for a Native American Music Award. The Native American Music Awards helps America remember its heritage, honor its unique culture, and celebrate its achievements. Be sure to vote for your favorite albums and artists at the Nammy website. The address is http://www.nativeamericanmusic.com/vote.htm ARTIST OF THE YEAR Robert Tree Cody "Native Flamenco" Canyon Sharon Burch "Colors of My Heart" Canyon BEST COMPILATION RECORDING "Voices Across The Canyon" Vol. 4 Various Canyon DUO OR GROUP OF THE YEAR Verdell Primeaux & Johnny Mike "Live In Harmony" Canyon BEST FEMALE ARTIST Judy Trejo "Stick Game Songs of the Paiute" Canyon Sharon Burch "Colors of My Heart" Canyon BEST FOLK OR COUNTRY ARTIST Pima Express "Together Well Fade Away" Canyon Sharon Burch "Colors of My Heart" Canyon FLUTIST OF THE YEAR R. Carlos Nakai "Inner Voices" Canyon Robert Tree Cody "Native Flamenco" Canyon BEST MALE ARTIST Robert Tree Cody "Native Flamenco" Canyon BEST NEW AGE RECORDING "Inner Voices" R. Carlos Nakai Canyon "Native Flamenco" R. Romero, R. Tree Cody, T. Redhouse Canyon BEST POP/ROCK RECORDING "Ma Wio Mi" Medicine Dream Canyon BEST POW WOW RECORDING "Here To Stay" Northern Cree Canyon "Keepin' It Real" Southern Cree Canyon "Rendezvous" Young Bird Canyon "Tribute To The Elders" Black Lodge Singers Canyon BEST TRADITIONAL RECORDING "Stick Game Songs of the Paiute" Judy Trejo Canyon ***** NEW MUSIC FROM CANYON RECORDS***** Canyon New Release Page (www.canyonrecords.com/new.htm) Tha Tribe Live from Tornado Alley (CR-6326) (www.canyonrecords.com/cr6326.htm) Led by Wayne Silas Jr., and uniting singers from many tribal groups, Tha Tribe continues to break new ground with their innovative singing and drumming style. Recorded live in their hometown of Lawrence, Kansas, this recording proves why Tha Tribe is one of the most dynamic drum groups on the pow-wow circuit today. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Re: no joni content NJC > << off topic: i'm looking for some native american indian music...i dont > even > know where to begin. >> > > Robbie Robertson did a nice record a couple years back...someone help me with > the title...I don't have it but I've heard it and it's very good. > > Sail on Sailor! > > Bob > > NP: Joni, "Harry's House" > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:45:04 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Coyote (now Hejira) I suppose Hejira is self-absorbed...I don't tend to think of it that way. I guess I try not to take every line that Joni writes as a direct reference to herself...although I do tend to think that Hejira is about at personal as she gets. Perhaps it is the time in life when I first heard Hejira, or maybe I'm just a little more fond of meloncholy, but Hejira has always been Joni's most important record to me. The soundscapes are so bleak, but complicated at the same time, and the whole record is filled with those wonderful background vocals that sound kind of like whale songs and children (to me anyway.) A friend of mine who has been an opera singer for 40 years told me once about a process of sort of soul-healing that she practiced when going through difficult times in life. She called it "keening" (I don't know if it was a concept that she came up with herself, or a method to which she subscribed...) It involved meditating and expressing and releasing sorrow, anguish, or pain in general in low moans and repetitive vocal sounds. She claimed it released the pain in a positive way. As she described this, I immediately thought of the background vocals of Hejira... Just a thought. (The list mail is good today! I need to get to work...) Reuben np: Hejira >>> "Mark or Travis" 08/24/00 09:08PM >>> Hissing of course is very very > different than anything before it. Hejira at the same time is different than > anything AFTER it. Yet it is an album in tone and feel that is closer than > what came before Hissing than after Hejira. (are you following this?) I am. I've always thought that 'Hejira' was less musically adventurous than Hissing or Don Juan or even Court and Spark and therefore less interesting. It is more sophisticated than the records that came before Hissing but aside from Jaco, I could never see what was particularly new or innovative about it. Also, although the poetry is lovely and full of wonderful insights, I think Hejira is a totally self-absorbed work. Joni on Joni. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. Autobiography can be fascinating and with Joni it certainly is. But personally I'm glad she has progressed out of being strictly a confessional songwriter and broadened her horizons a bit. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:44:30 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Ribbons >but what does the line "Are you gagged by your ribbons?" mean? >All ideas welcome, >Jacky I always thought she was talking about typewriter ribbons...maybe saying that as a writer this person puts all his words in his art and doesn't save them for meaningless conversation. I guess I thought this because I always get the impression that this song is being sung to another artist or writer she respects and wants approval from. sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:02:42 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ribbons <> Boy, what a brilliant line that is...She talks about silence being 'golden', like it's a good thing, like a gift wrapped with bows and pretty paper and ribbons. But she then questions the duality of the whole thing, reiterating that the "golden gift" of silence is a prison, a confining thing. SO the ribbons are NOT a part of a gift, but rather a gag on communication and understanding... That's my take on it anyway... Bob NP: Dave Matthews, "Lie In Our Graves" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:21:31 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Coyote (now Hejira) (md) In a message dated 8/25/00 6:56:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RPBell@newchurch.edu writes: << It involved meditating and expressing and releasing sorrow, anguish, or ! pain in general in low moans and repetitive vocal sounds. >> So THATS what my girlfriend in college was doing. (rimshot) marcel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:37:59 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Old Lady of the Year Hello all! At the gentle urging of Darice and Irish Philip, I descended once more into the land of Sprites and spiders, AKA my garage, and discovered: Rolling Stone, 2/4/71, issue number 75, page 44: Old Lady of the Year: Joni Mitchell (for her friendships with David Crosby, Steve Stills, Graham Nash, Neil Young, James Taylor. et al.) It is accompanied by a tiny photo of Joni and Stills. This was a particularly waggish "end of year" issue - Joe Cocker got "Guitar Player of the Year" and David Crosby was one of the "Couples of the Year". I still haven't found the chart they supposedly published of all her romantic entanglements. Any ideas? I *think* RS published a chart showing all the LA bands' musical connections around the time the Eagles got big. Wonder if it was part of that? - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:55:45 -0700 From: "Lance Parauka" Subject: Re: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade? >I guess that means I won't be burning you a copy of >the mixing board back-up tapes from the "Dog Eat Dog" >sessions -- even though there's this really cool >argument, at the end of which Joni knocks Dolby and >Klein's heads together -- decides it sounds really >cool, samples it into the Fairlight CMI and uses it as >the congas patch on "Ethiopia"? ;-) > >Don Rowe > >THIS IS A JOKE -- I HAVE NO SUCH RECORDING ... ... being new to the list I was sort of wondering the same thing. Though, i'm pretty much a fan of anything Ms. Mitchell does. I was curious... has anyone started a database of her live recordings that are in circulation? I come from the Dead/Phish/Jamband camp and it's unbelievable how much there live music is not only traded but kept track of as well. So basically, is their a Joni archivist out there? TIA ~lance~ - ------------------------------------------------------------ http://byke.com - Free email, BMX links, Music, Art & Culture and much more ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:46:09 -0600 From: Alison Subject: Re: no joni content > From: "star sailor" > > > off topic: i'm looking for some native american indian music...i dont even > know where to begin. (please not buffy...i have a lot of her stuff already) > > > any suggestions? email private to me so this doesnt clog up your digest. > > thank you all. > > now playing: CAT POWER (i recommend it) hello, star sailor (cool tag...) i would suggest you run, not walk, to get John Trudell's latest album called Blue Indians. It is great, and Jackson Browne makes a guest appearance as well. It is well worth it. Also, you might want to check out the soundtrack to one of my altime favorite movies, Smoke Signals. It is beatiful from beginning to end! at the public radio station where i volunteer, we have several native hosted and native focus programs. they play a variety of music, and if you have specific questions about native music or artists, i could give you the email of one of the hosts and they would certainly be more help. > now playing: CAT POWER (i recommend it) I agree! it's a very cool recording. welcome, and take care. alison e. in slc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:48:22 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: native american music NJC star sailor wrote: > off topic: i'm looking for some native american indian music...i dont even > know where to begin. (please not buffy...i have a lot of her stuff already) John Trudell is great- he speaks over a rock band- which comes off alot better than you'd think. Bob Dylan was quoted as saying his first (and maybe best) album, "AKA Grafitti Man" was the best album to come along in a long time. It features the late great Native American guitarist Jesse Ed Davis. The other two discs on Ryko are really good too; "Johnny Damas and Me", and his latest, produced by Jackson Browne, "Blue Indians".I had the pleasure of opening for him 2 years ago, and he's a really nice no BS kinda guy. You might want to check out Joy Harjoe, too. She's kind of like a female-speak-from-your-heart version of Trudell. And there is a new band on the scene called Indigenious that is really good. They grew up on the res listening to 60's and 70's rock and jamming in their garage. Also Rita Coolige is in a new trio whose name escapes me... I saw her CD in the Ladyslipper Catalog, a great resource of women's music from all over the world. One more tip: Wednesdays at 9AM-10AM on the best damn little station on the planet, http://www.kmud.org Mayan Agnes Patak does a show about Native American interests, issues, etc. as well as music. That's where I first heard alot of great stuff. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:11:28 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: At Last Hi Byron, I did a quick search at CD NOW and found that "At Last" has been recorded by several dozen recording artists over the years. In terms of "ownership," this song was written by Gordon/Warren (couldn't find first names.) It's long been a "signature song" of Etta James, whose version is indeed splendid. While I have some CDs by the artists you mentioned below, none contain "At Last," so I haven't had the privilidge of hearing them...yet. Still, I think Joni's version is sublime (hey, I'm on this list, right?") Joni obviously claims "ownership" of the many (nearly 200) songs she's written. But when it comes to "ownership" of a cover, that's muddy water, cause it's totally subjective. Bryan Thomas, an excellent musician in his own right and member of this list, chose Joni's "At Last" as the first dance at his wedding. There are other excellent musicians on this list - and non-msicians, like myself. Some will say that so-and-so's version is "best" but again, it's all subjective. Personally, it's one of my favorite songs on BSN, and I agree that Joni does one hell of a job with it - stylistically. Best, -Kenny byron bentley wrote: > Joni Mitchell, Phoebe Snow, Stevie Nicks, Bonnie Raitt, Jimmy Scott and > so many others have great versions of At Last. Each one of them brings > new flavor to an amazing song. While none of the above takes on At Last > should be missed, especially Phoebe Snow, At Last = Etta James. I'll > admit though, I would kick any of the others if they got between me and > Joni. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:08:19 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: CDr trading Hi everyone! I know that there are a lot of newbies out here looking to get some Joni recordings on CDr. I've been a part of a tree many times while distributing some Tori Amos recordings. I'd be happy to mini-tree a few recordings for some of the new listers. In the meantime, I'm very excited about getting some Joni shows... So drop me a line and we can work something out in trade. thanks so much! eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 04:20:31 -0400 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: Paul McCartney (NJC) I was wondering what most of the Joni Mitchell List consensus is of Paul McCartney as a solo artist and PETA supporter. (No, I'm not a vegetarian) just curious. I am a Beatles nut, and first liked Paul better than John, I try to like them equally, but lately, I have to say I definitely am in a John mood. and yesterday I listened to my FIRST Yoko CD, "Walking on Thin Ice" it's Joni Mitchell-esque (I told the Yoko lists that) Yoko is like Joni in the fact that they are unclassifiable, so the music wasn't the same, but the ability to experiment and try new things are the same. Anyway, I was just curious what you lot thought of Paul McCartney. Thanks Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:41:59 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: popular vs. passionate >There is no question that Joni's largest audience was for her most accessible >albums -- Court and Spark mostly, but also For the Roses and Blue. >When she returned to doing the music that pleased herself -- particularly >DJRD, but also Hissing, Hejira and Mingus -- her audience stayed with her >previous albums or went on to other music. >There's nothing wrong with suggesting to a musician who wants to make money >that he or she write songs that people will like and pay money for. But it's not only for the sake of money, or money alone, that someone might chose to write in an accessible manner. It would also be for the *power* that it confers (to negotiate with record execs, concert producers, etc. Also for the sake of playing before a larger audience. It may well be that Joni has enough money to live the kind of material existence she enjoys, and yet would still want to have a large audience for other reasons. Not wanting to only rely upon a smaller following who go for her more esoteric efforts. Maintaining her status as a "major draw," so that she can chat with Don Henley, et al as a peer? Bruce M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:44:38 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: Touring Hi everyone. So, being a pretty new Joni fan-- I missed seeing here on the BSN tour. Prior to that tour-- when did she tour last? Does Joni regularly tour to support her newest projects or only select shows in select cities? Do we think we'll see another tour in the near future or no? Just curious. :) eric NP:JM - Court and Spark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:33:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Touring <> Prior to the BSN tour, she toured in the fall of '98. I was lucky enough to see her in Atlanta on 11/7, her birthday no less! All the detail about that tour is on JoniMitchell.com, if you have Web access go check it out! Great reviews, pictures, setlists, etc. Lots of those shows were recorded, shared, treed, etc. Let me know if you're interested in hearing any of them! <> Well, she certainly doesn't do any "Springsteen-ish" 18-month long odyssees, but she HAS done 2 major city tours in the last 2 years, so we can be grateful for that! <> Obviously, I hope so, my bet is she's going to retreat and work on her next project...I'd be surprised if she tours it, but then again, I'm surprised every day! :~) Bob NP: Edwin McCain, "Jesters, Dreamers, and Thieves" ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 00 14:26:26 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: Upcoming New England Joni-fest (NJC) Future New England revelers, Attempting to atone for my failure during last year's event, I've arranged to have multiple tubs of Bethany Beach, DE caramel popcorn delivered to Ashara's home for the comsumption of all those in attendance. Enjoy. I'll be traveling to Bethany Beach in the near future and purchasing some for our private consumption. Ashara, is it too late to send a donation for the web site and to be entered in the door prize drawings? Can't wait to see pictures and read all about the fine times. Loren... (I thought I'd sent this before, but I may have screwed up clicking on the "send" button, so if this is the second note, I'm sorry. It ain't easy being a 'puter geek) NP...Moto Photo commercial on the radio...UGGGGHHHHH!!! ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:19:33 -0700 From: Emmy M Burns Subject: The Arrangement Lyric Question Hey Don and everyone else, Since you brought up the Arrangement, I thought it was a fine time to ask the question to anyone who has any ideas about the meaning of the line "More than a consumer lying in some room trying to die." I hum it all the time and then one day realized I wasn't quite sure of the meaning. Anyone willing to take a stab at it? Emmy NP: Jeff Buckley, Hallelujah ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:26:03 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: The Arrangement Lyric Question I think she's referring to the mundanity of consumerism, and the death of creativity and individualism. She seems to be saying that to be a person in modern society is simply waiting around to die...no creativity, and no individual importance. No substance. Reuben >>> Emmy M Burns 08/25/00 03:19PM >>> Hey Don and everyone else, Since you brought up the Arrangement, I thought it was a fine time to ask the question to anyone who has any ideas about the meaning of the line "More than a consumer lying in some room trying to die." I hum it all the time and then one day realized I wasn't quite sure of the meaning. Anyone willing to take a stab at it? Emmy NP: Jeff Buckley, Hallelujah ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:44:22 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Paul McCartney (NJC) "C.A. Starkey" wrote: > Anyway, I was just curious what you lot thought of Paul McCartney. > > Thanks > Carol Although I have always been a Lennon fan first and foremost, I think Sir Paul is a freaking genius....some of my favorite solo stuff, in no particular order: McCartney Wild Life Flowers In The Dirt Flaming Pie Tug of War Of course, he has put out alot of weak material, too....but when he scores, he scores. RR ...wait a sec....Starkey...hmmm...this isn't Ringo in disguise, is it? np: John Trudell phone interview on: http://www.kmud.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:13:02 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Paul was always the cutest...njc Carol wrote :"Anyway, I was just curious what you lot thought of Paul McCartney." I've always loved Paul's early stuff w/ Linda, and earlier Wings. McCartney1 and Ram are both wonderful records that remind me of being very little...oh the joys of infancy! Despite the idea that these records are portraits of a couple suspended in what I'll call marajuana induced psychosis (a state I used to enjoy quite a bit, actually), they have a delightfully playful homemade quality to them. As for that other couple, suspended in that 'other' psychosis, I think P&L come out slightly more functional. -Chris NP:"You've Changed"-Joni, MSG Theater...thanks, Bob! They just arrived! ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:08:41 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Brian, Herbie&Wayne NJC Lucky Leslie hits the trifecta! ;-) Ken wrote: >I went to see Brian's show in Atlanta, and I felt incredibly > moved by the experience, but my understanding is that that >is because I am one of those people who emotionally "gets" >Brian and is incredibly moved by his presence and what lies >underneath his singing, even when he is appearing robotic >and monotonous because of his incredible stage fright. > It's definitely not what we usually expect in a concert, but >it's still unlike any show you've ever seen and a bit like going >to a really inspiring support group-- I'm really glad you're >going and I expect a full report! But I've gotten the idea that >people who don't get Brian at that level have been >disappointed because there is something a bit weird in his >execution these days. I really regret missing his Pet Sounds concert when it came to L.A. - (had another engagement). As for Brian's robotic appearance and weird execution on stage, it is not deliberate and I'm not sure it is completely due to stage fright. He sat next to me at a small Jimmy Webb show at the Cinegrill a couple years ago and I also spoke briefly with him after the show. The strange stiffness you noticed is just how he is now. I must admit I was shocked and saddened by this. He appears to have some significant neurological damage. He signed a few autographs for people and it was a struggle for him just to write his first name. Despite that, it is a beautiful miracle that he is performing again. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:13:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Old Lady of the Year At last!! Bravo, Steve!!! > Rolling Stone, 2/4/71, issue number 75, page 44: > > Old Lady of the Year: Joni Mitchell (for her friendships with > David Crosby, Steve Stills, Graham Nash, Neil Young, >James Taylor. et al.) Wow, so they laid this on her as early as '71?! How dare they strike at the core of her close friendships at the time. Now I'm getting pissed off!! I don't blame her for being very hurt and insulted at this crass dig. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:02:09 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Rolling Stone Thread Research, NJC, Librarian Needed Does anyone have the time and inclination to research all of the crimes these other wise intelligent people have perpetrated against Our Lady Of Duality? I'd love to read it! - --- In fairness to Rolling Stone, I must note that they also pick on others as well. A couple of years back (when I bought the occasional odd issue) they reported that through decades of touring, a certain Delta blues man has been _paying_ on more than 50 paternity suits. (!) All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:10:25 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #464 In a message dated 24/08/00 08:33:32 GMT Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Hiya - lurker here, trying to unlurk. It's quite difficult to keep up because the topics change so fast. But the list is a fantastic bunch - and it's great to 'hear' people talking about Joni (I'm a teenager in London and nobody's really heard of her here). >> Well hello Quiff! Another Londoner here, though my teenage years are long since past. Depending on how long you've been on the list, you may know that there are a few more Londoners here, like Martin, Jamie, Raffaele, Gerry and Paul (Paul Castle, that is - is he still around?). I haven't had that many Joni moments around recently, other than the fact that Hejira is buzzing around my head a lot at the moment, partly thanks to the Favourite Lyrics thread. Oh well, Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:18:06 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade?, NJC, Grateful Dead content Hi Lance, Well, yes, JMDL has an archivist but he doesn't like the spotlight anywhere near as much as "Dick" of the Dead's "Dick's Picks" fame. For those unfamiliar, the Dead has an extraordiary attitude with tapers. The Dead's audience has been totally into field recordings from the earliest days, if I remember "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" by Tom Wolfe correctly. The band's crew has provided electric outlets, and stereo line feeds to regular tapers (at least sometimes- I don't know the frequency, Kenneth). This is totally the opposite of most headliners I come from the Dead/Phish/Jamband camp and it's unbelievable how much there live music is not only traded but kept track of as well. So basically, is their a Joni archivist out there? TIA > > ~lance~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:32:59 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC- US Political sub List??? Is anyone interested in a subList to discuss USA politics? Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, y'all. Maybe we can head off a big dam bursting by shunting political traffic to a sub-List. I haven't proposed this to Les or anything- just thinking. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu np: Computer Speaker in the war room: silent boombox in dining room: silent big rig: silent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:45:01 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Upcoming New England Joni-fest Loren wrote: << Ashara, is it too late to send a donation for the web site and to be entered in the door prize drawings? >> It is NOT too late, but the check MUST get to me by Friday in order to be in the drawing. There are some absolutely fantastic items this year, including a LOT of out-of-print Joni items! If you'd like to be a part of this, send a check in any amount, payable to Les Irvin to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:18:45 -0400 From: "C.A. Starkey" Subject: Re: Paul McCartney (NJC) Yeah, it's hard, but I try to like both Paul and John, everyone wants you take sides, but musically, I'd like to like them all. Nope! But it is my real last name.... Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:41:03 +0100 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: Re: NJC Robbie Robertson Bob Wrote << Robbie Robertson did a nice record a couple years back...someone help me with the title...I don't have it but I've heard it and it's very good.>> Music For The Native Americans 1994 Contact From The Underworld Of Redboy 1998 and << Bonnie Raitt's version of At Last. She Rocks!!! >> << Yes, she does, and I've got a load of her stuff but "At Last" is not on anything I've got. Maybe she's got a new disc out or it's an early release single from an upcoming project...>> same goes for me Bob,whoever heard it ,are you sure it was Bonnie ? I did see Rickie Lee Jones has a covers CD coming out called 'It's Like This' featuring help from Joe Jackson,Taj Mahal,Ben Folds,Dan Hicks.... Rickie and Joe doing 'Show Biz Kid' MMMMMMMMMM !! interesting Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:29:57 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Trades (NJC) Manno wrote: "I'm sorry for my questions not related JM. But the materials are JM's. I've been troubling with a trader. I trade some CDRs and VHS tapes with a person. He sent me 4 CDRs and videos. 3 CDRs are made by Dysan. 1 CDR made by dysan was already unreadable, and the rest of two became unreadable after 3 month. I realized that Dysan is the worst manufacturer. I claimed him to re-send me. But He denied it. And I asked him why he use Dysan's. His answer was "Because it is the most expensive." I was very confused. After some months later, he sent me a E-Mail, he would send me substitutes. But he missed my name, as female. (I'm male.) I answered that E-Mail but he never ent me. I'm been confused. So I have two questions; 1. In this case, should he send me substitutes in your common sense? 2. In Japan, we can't buy Dysan's. Is Dysan's CDR more expensive than other manufacturers?" Manno- So sorry to hear your troubles. In my opinion the person should send you an acceptable quality product that you probably should have set the standard before the trade. It's too late for that now. I think it would be the right thing for the trader to male good on the deal by replacing the bad product. You should probably offer to pay fir the freight since you are in Japan. Out of curiosity what music was this that was being traded? Are you new on the list? If so, welcome. Did this happen on this list? Good luck! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:41:48 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Rolling Stone Thread Research, NJC, Librarian Needed Jim wrote: > In fairness to Rolling Stone, I must note that they also pick >on others as well. A couple of years back (when I bought >the occasional odd issue) they reported that through >decades of touring, a certain Delta blues man has been >_paying_ on more than 50 paternity suits. (!) In fairness to Joni you can't compare her hanging out with the boys (and having significant relationships, including musically, with three of them) to a Delta blues man paying on 50 paternity suits. With Delta Man it's fact, with Joni it's cheap innuendo. (At that rate (50) the Delta blues man is probably proud in a way of his "accomplishments"!). Look at it another way - could you imagine Rolling Stone doing a story like that today with the same title about say, Jewel, Jonatha Brooke, Alanis Morisette, Lauryn Hill etc.? Even Madonna would probably be insulted by it. Boys may be boys but it was still a cheap shot at Joni, leaving her open to being diminished in some way, whether they intended it or not. I say keep throwing that drink, Joni. ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:09:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Trades (NJC) Michael wrote: > So sorry to hear your troubles. In my opinion the person >should send you an acceptable quality product that you >probably should have set the standard before the trade. It's >too late for that now. I think it would be the right thing for the >trader to male good on the deal by replacing the bad product. > You should probably offer to pay fir the freight since you are >in Japan. Out of curiosity what music was this that was >being traded? Are you new on the list? If so, welcome. Did >this happen on this list? Good luck! I haven't seen Manno in awhile (Hi Manno!) but he has been on the list at least 2 1/2 years. A friend of mine traded with him in the past and she said it was the most excellent trade she had ever experienced and that Manno is very generous. Hope you can work it out, Manno. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:30:49 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Rolling Stone Thread Research, NJC, Librarian Needed Hey, I'm with you on this- not against you! My tone was way back here: >all of the crimes >these other wise intelligent people have perpetrated against >Our Lady Of >Duality? That said, I don't think that having 50 paternity suits is in anyway an accomplishment! Maybe to a blues man, but not to the typical RS reader! I did not think "Hey, Beavis, that was so cooool!" That's two whole classrooms of fatherless girls and boys because a blues man refused to be responsible. As Michael Y. once said, "Eww. F*ck you!" :) I agree with you that they would not do this to today's artists, male or female. Maybe Mr. Wenner has learned his lesson? Let's hope so. Lama - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kakki" To: "Jim L'Hommedieu" ; "_JMDL - June 98" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Rolling Stone Thread Research, NJC, Librarian Needed > In fairness to Joni you can't compare her hanging out with the boys (and > having significant relationships, including musically, with three of them) > to a Delta blues man paying on 50 paternity suits. With Delta Man it's fact, > with Joni it's cheap innuendo. (At that rate (50) the Delta blues man is > probably proud in a way of his "accomplishments"!). Look at it another > way - could you imagine Rolling Stone doing a story like that today with the > same title about say, Jewel, Jonatha Brooke, Alanis Morisette, Lauryn Hill > etc.? Even Madonna would probably be insulted by it. Boys may be boys but > it was still a cheap shot at Joni, leaving her open to being diminished in > some way, whether they intended it or not. I say keep throwing that drink, > Joni. ;-) > > Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #466 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?