From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #441 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Wednesday, August 9 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 441 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Turntable help - NJC, Boring Audiophile Content- Run For Your Life ["] Re: My Job (NJC) [Gerald McNamara ] Re: Presto Chango (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Friends of Fred and Joni ["Kakki" ] Re: Presto Chango (NJC) (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Marcel reviews DED Part 1. (long and treacherous content) [SCJoniGuy] Re: Friends of Fred and Joni NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni items for sale [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Friends of Fred and Joni [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: Friends of Fred and Joni NJC ["Peg Eves" ] RE: Friends of Fred and Joni ["Peg Eves" ] Re: DESTE on DED [B Merrill ] Re: Friends of Fred and Joni [SMEBD@aol.com] Test [Mg41mk34@aol.com] RE: DESTE on DED ["Peg Eves" ] John Hiatt NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Test [Heather ] re: Turntable help ["c Karma" ] Joni-Fred Walecki Benefit [Mg41mk34@aol.com] NJC clarinet recordings for Peg [Matthew Snyder ] These are the guys who are upset with Napster ? [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Test NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: DESTE on DED (SJC/DKPC) [Don Rowe ] Re: DESTE on DED [Catherine McKay ] Re: DED Part 2 (long and dangerous content) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Remember when? [Don Rowe ] Re: Remember when? [Don Rowe ] RE: Test ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: My Job (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: My Job (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Repost: DED part 1 (long and treacherous content) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Antidote for the Blues? [MDESTE1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 03:16:28 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Turntable help - NJC, Boring Audiophile Content- Run For Your Life Hey Eric, In the old days, you had to actually "setup" a turntable. I had a Thorens model 165 TD so I have an idea what you're up against. Before any of this, make sure that there's a needle at the end of the stylus. If there isn't, if the stylus is broken off, there is no way under God's blue sky that it will ever track. Okay, so you actually have a needle. Now onto setup: First, you need to make sure that the shelf/stand is level. Secondly, you have to balance the arm so that (without any tracking force) it floats, tending neither totally upwards nor downwards. Thirdly, you apply about one and a half grams of downward pressure. Fourth, if you want to be complete, you can set anti-skate. More details? Let's go off-List. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati up late, pondering from Marcel's first two installments. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 7:23:23 UTC From: Gerald McNamara Subject: Re: My Job (NJC) Vanessa wrote: >I have a friend you has a mortal fear of sock puppets... he just >collapses and carries on when confronted with any sock puppet imagery! >Anyone else have an odd fear/dislike? I have therefore concluded that >at a young, impressionable age something traumatic involving a sock >puppet happened to him. I'm quite clever! Hey Vanessa, Have you ever heard about "Sylvester The Talking Sock" ? He was on TV here in Melbourne in the 60's. He was just a sock with 2 buttons sewn on for eyes. I've told my kids about him and they reckon he must've been pretty 'lame'. Strangely, they don't consider a sock with 2 buttons sewn on to be a very exciting TV host. But he had his own show ! I'm pretty sure he was only seen in Melbourne. Maybe John can tell us if he was ever on Sydney TV. Come to think of it, he was a solo sock, too. Not one of a pair. Perhaps Sylvester was the cause of your friend's condition. -Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 06:38:41 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Presto Chango (NJC) In a message dated 8/9/00 12:40:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@telocity.com writes: << This is an official announcement that I am no longer be the artist known as michaelpaz@telocity.com, but the new improved, lemon freshened, wrinkle free jmichaelpaz@telocity.com (notice the j) For those of you inclined to do so, please make these changes to your address books >> ......and bathroom walls :~) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 04:17:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Friends of Fred and Joni Got home late from the Fred Walecki benefit and after-party. Joni did not make an appearance but so many of her friends did that I think this qualifies as related Joni content and hey, there's still one more night to go ;-) O...my...my.. I took many notes but at some point I actually started just writing OH MY GOD on my scraps of paper in the dark. The biggest of many astounding moments of the night was the historical occurence of THE BYRDS reuniting. The REAL BYRDS, the real ones, the originals - McGuinn, Hillman and Crosby, oh my God. You gotta understand, to some of us, especially L.A. natives, this is like the Beatles reuniting. The night had been filled with many cheers and standing ovations but this went off the charts. McGuinn and Hillman looked like they had not aged a day in 35 years, and even thought Croz has aged he still has his 1965 voice. I saw CPR guitar god Jeff Pevar sitting off to right stage watching this and he beamed his face off. After the show I met up with Steve and Michelle Dulson and Steve and Leslie Mixon and the first thing we collectively screamed was "THE BYRDS". They played Mr. Tambourine Man and Turn, Turn, Turn. Darice got the chance to volunteer at the concession stand and the afterparty and upon seeing her it was the same reaction. Oh my, I could write an entire post on each act there tonight and on Fred Walecki himself but I must rest up to do this again manana. It was beyond incredibly wonderful. Absolutely magical and sweet and amazing. I'll leave it to Steve and Leslie to fill in more details. Here's the short version of the line-up: House Band: Ry Cooder (standing "o"s all night); Bernie Leadon; Ethan Johns; Jennifer Condos; Andy Fairweather Low; Albert Lee Randy Meisner and Friends (Eagles); Colin Hay (Men At Work); Warren Zevon w/Jackson Browne; Jackson alone; Actor Jeff Bridges; Jackson and Bonnie Raitt; Bonnie alone with Freebo; Crosby Nash, Pevar and Raymond; Chris Hillman and Herb Peterson; Spinal Tap (!); McGuinn, Hillman, Crosby (BYRDS); Chris Hillman and Emmy Lou Harris; Emmy Lou and Linda Ronstadt; Linda Ronstadt and her young niece also named Linda Ronstadt ;-); Don Henley and Eagles alumni; and then everyone for the grand finale. At the afterparty being incredibly gracious and friendly to everyone: Emmy Lou; Graham Nash; Stephen Bishop; Jeff Pevar; Jeff Bridges; Henry Diltz and Freebo. I had not planned to go tonight and have to give MAJOR thanks to our simon who had planned to come out for both nights and then had to cancel. He generously Express Mailed his tickets and party pass to me. I wish I had a mini-disc recorder of this night! ;-) Tomorrow night another jmdler will be the beneficiary of his generosity. Thank you simon, wish you could have been there. The resourceful Darice has me set up to do volunteer work at the afterparty tomorrow heehee ;-) It was perfect, it was beautiful. John Calimee has raved here on the list about the wonderful friendship he has struck up with Fred. Everyone seems to rave about him and now I see why. The man exudes so much heart and sweetness, it has to be seen to be believed. What a night. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 07:40:28 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Presto Chango (NJC) (md) In a message dated 8/9/2000 3:47:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << jmichaelpaz@telocity.com (notice the j) For those of you inclined to do so, please make these changes to your address books >> ......and bathroom walls :~) >> Good grief you mean I have to go back to all those bus stations ??? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 08:14:09 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Marcel reviews DED Part 1. (long and treacherous content) <> Jim, enjoying your comments about DED...but... Going right after Ad Empires & Big Business is very cliche, and imo nothing to especially proud of... And for the record, JT skewers big business on songs like "Stand & Fight" from "Dad Loves His Work", and very humorously on In The Pocket's "Money Machine": "General Motors, IBM, The AF of L, the CIA, And all the King's Men, When I began the game, See me singing 'bout Fire & Rain, Lemme just say it again, I've seen Fives and I've seen Tens" JT is a MUCH better composer than he gets credit for... Bob NP: John Hiatt, "Thank You Girl" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 08:23:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Friends of Fred and Joni NJC <> Wow Kakki, what a night indeed!! You are surely the female incarnation of Forrest Gump, always in the right place at the right time, and as always use your gift of communication to share the experience. I can just see you, Leslie, Steve, et al hopping up & down like kids shouting "The Byrds, The Byrds!!" (A little Hitchcockian perhaps, but still a great mental picture) :~) You've certainly seen some memorable shows this year, huh? Bob NP: John Hiatt, "Your Dad Did" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:13:22 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Joni items for sale I still have several copies of the Mendel Catalog for sale, as well as some posters from the Mendel Exhibit, and some items from the concerts in May that I purchased for people, and they changed their minds about. (A hat and mug.) I am only looking to cover my costs, and get them out of my house. Please e-mail me privately if you are interested in any of these items. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:19:15 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Friends of Fred and Joni Kakki, I always love your post concert posts!! Thank you for this one, and I can't WAIT to hear more! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:38:03 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Friends of Fred and Joni NJC Hey Bob, Speaking of John Hiatt . . .. Hell of a songwriter, isn't he?? I love that song and many more.Bet he's a kick live. Not nuts about his voice - in fact don't like it. Peg Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 8:23 AM > To: KakkiB@worldnet.att.net > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Friends of Fred and Joni NJC > > > < believed. What a night.>> > > Wow Kakki, what a night indeed!! You are surely the female > incarnation of Forrest Gump, always in the right place at the > right time, and as always use your gift of communication to share > the experience. > > I can just see you, Leslie, Steve, et al hopping up & down like > kids shouting "The Byrds, The Byrds!!" (A little Hitchcockian > perhaps, but still a great mental picture) :~) > > You've certainly seen some memorable shows this year, huh? > > Bob > > NP: John Hiatt, "Your Dad Did" > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:38:04 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Friends of Fred and Joni Wow! The ------' Byrds!!That must have been incredible!! Yahooooo! Thanks for sharing. What else?! Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Kakki > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 7:17 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Friends of Fred and Joni > > > Got home late from the Fred Walecki benefit and after-party. > Joni did not > make an appearance but so many of her friends did that I think this > qualifies as related Joni content and hey, there's still one more night to > go ;-) > > O...my...my.. I took many notes but at some point I actually started just > writing OH MY GOD on my scraps of paper in the dark. The biggest of many > astounding moments of the night was the historical occurence of THE BYRDS > reuniting. The REAL BYRDS, the real ones, the originals - > McGuinn, Hillman > and Crosby, oh my God. You gotta understand, to some of us, > especially L.A. > natives, this is like the Beatles reuniting. The night had been > filled with > many cheers and standing ovations but this went off the charts. > McGuinn and > Hillman looked like they had not aged a day in 35 years, and even thought > Croz has aged he still has his 1965 voice. I saw CPR guitar god > Jeff Pevar > sitting off to right stage watching this and he beamed his face > off. After > the show I met up with Steve and Michelle Dulson and Steve and > Leslie Mixon > and the first thing we collectively screamed was "THE BYRDS". > They played > Mr. Tambourine Man and Turn, Turn, Turn. Darice got the chance to > volunteer > at the concession stand and the afterparty and upon seeing her it was the > same reaction. > > Oh my, I could write an entire post on each act there tonight and on Fred > Walecki himself but I must rest up to do this again manana. It was beyond > incredibly wonderful. Absolutely magical and sweet and amazing. > I'll leave > it to Steve and Leslie to fill in more details. Here's the short > version of > the line-up: > > House Band: Ry Cooder (standing "o"s all night); Bernie Leadon; > Ethan Johns; > Jennifer Condos; Andy Fairweather Low; Albert Lee > > Randy Meisner and Friends (Eagles); Colin Hay (Men At Work); Warren Zevon > w/Jackson Browne; Jackson alone; Actor Jeff Bridges; Jackson and Bonnie > Raitt; Bonnie alone with Freebo; Crosby Nash, Pevar and Raymond; Chris > Hillman and Herb Peterson; Spinal Tap (!); McGuinn, Hillman, > Crosby (BYRDS); > Chris Hillman and Emmy Lou Harris; Emmy Lou and Linda Ronstadt; Linda > Ronstadt and her young niece also named Linda Ronstadt ;-); Don Henley and > Eagles alumni; and then everyone for the grand finale. > > At the afterparty being incredibly gracious and friendly to > everyone: Emmy > Lou; Graham Nash; Stephen Bishop; Jeff Pevar; Jeff Bridges; Henry > Diltz and > Freebo. > > I had not planned to go tonight and have to give MAJOR thanks to our simon > who had planned to come out for both nights and then had to cancel. He > generously Express Mailed his tickets and party pass to me. I wish I had a > mini-disc recorder of this night! ;-) Tomorrow night another > jmdler will be > the beneficiary of his generosity. Thank you simon, wish you > could have been > there. The resourceful Darice has me set up to do volunteer work at the > afterparty tomorrow heehee ;-) > > It was perfect, it was beautiful. > > John Calimee has raved here on the list about the wonderful friendship he > has struck up with Fred. Everyone seems to rave about him and now I see > why. The man exudes so much heart and sweetness, it has to be seen to be > believed. What a night. > > Kakki > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:27:25 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: DESTE on DED Hi Don, the chord voicings (I'm real >keen on that, being a demon keyboard player) are >still, I say, 100% JM. Nobody, but nobody got synth >textures like those on DED. And you attribute these textures to Joni, and not Thomas Dolby? Textures = chord voicings-- as opposed to Synth programming? It's really the main >reason I love the album so much, and also the main >reason I chafe at comments that dismiss it as "synth >pop." Soft Cell is synth pop, Human League is synth >pop -- not so DED. But overall -- very nice analysis. >Don Rowe Bruce PS Was there anyone else who missed out on Part One of Marcel's DED reflections? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:07:06 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Friends of Fred and Joni Kakki, Thanks you so much for another wonderful report of an evening of music. I must say that this particular evening sounds like a true standout, not only for the music, but for the man they were supporting. I can't believe that The Byrds reunited for the cause--but then again, it sounds exacting like the kind of thing that Crosby et al. would do. I'm so glad that you were there to tell us all about it. Give Emmylou and Linda a big kiss for me :-) tonight at the after party. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:24:18 EDT From: Mg41mk34@aol.com Subject: Test This is just a test, I am a new member and just wanted to make sure you all can hear me!!! someone please respond so I know I belong. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:05:17 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: DESTE on DED > > the chord voicings > >still, I say, 100% JM. Nobody, but nobody got synth > >textures like those on DED. Peg: Nobody, but nobody got voicings like that, period! Not in THOSE combinations!! >Other: > And you attribute these textures to Joni, and not Thomas Dolby? >Other: > Textures = chord voicings-- as opposed to Synth programming? I chafe at comments that dismiss it as "synth > >pop." Soft Cell is synth pop, Human League is synth > >pop -- not so DED. Peg writes: Me too. Thats so true. So it's not about the synth so much as it is about the voicings, one of Joni's signature skills : finding, choosing, inventing inversions, so to speak/??Yes. (Does that term apply?) I generally prefer to hear ALL of that business on the acoustic instrument. It FEELS so well! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:28:23 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: John Hiatt NJC <> He is a GREAT songwriter, I like his voice, it's got a very masculine thing going on with it, probably an acquired taste. I first picked up on him with "Two-Bit Monsters" back in the 70's when he was lumped in with Elvis Costello and the angry young men. Have never caught him live, but I'll bet he's super! He does have a live record out there, but I haven't heard it... Bob NP: Jimi, "Voodoo Chile" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:34:26 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Test you have landed!!!! welcome! Heather At 10:24 AM 8/9/00 -0400, Mg41mk34@aol.com wrote: >This is just a test, I am a new member and just wanted to make sure you all >can hear me!!! someone please respond so I know I belong. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 14:36:24 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Turntable help If memory serves me right, first you must make sure the turntable is LEVEL. The tonearm has a delicate balance of weights that insures accurate tracking and a minimum of wear if the machine is set in a level environment. Once you have adjusted the weight balances to that specified by your cartridge/stylus, you must adjust the anti-skid knob usually found on the back end of the rear of the tonearm. It's a delicate adjustment to make. Too little tension and the tonearm skids, too much and you'll wear out your records along the outer portion of the grooves. If you have questions or want to make sure you're adjusting the thing properly, you should go to a local audiophile store. I'm sure they'll be happy to help. Whatever you do, though, DON'T tape change to the top of the tonearm. :-) You could also contact the turntable's manufacturer. They will usually send or fax you the original set up instructions free of charge. CC ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:37:25 EDT From: Mg41mk34@aol.com Subject: Joni-Fred Walecki Benefit Hello everyone, I am new, my name is Mike. Does anyone know if Joni performed at the Benefit last night for Fred Walecki in Santa Monica last night? I think there is another show tonight. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:46:06 -0400 From: Matthew Snyder Subject: NJC clarinet recordings for Peg >in a recent post Peg Eves wrote ... > > > > >Can someone recommend two clarinet recordings each featuring > >a different clarinet player. Anything but classical. Peg - I suggest you also take a look at my website which contains "The Clarinet In Jazz Since 1945," an overview of 20 musicians who have taken the clarinet in various directions since the second world war. http://msnyder.dragonfire.net/clarinet/clar1945.htm Matt Snyder msnyder@dragonfire.net http://msnyder.dragonfire.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:04:21 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: These are the guys who are upset with Napster ? Suit charges record firms cheated consumers By Larry Neumeister The Associated Press August 9, 2000 12:24 a.m. CDT NEW YORK (AP) -- Record companies should pay back millions of dollars in illegal profits they collected by forcing discount stores to raise CD prices in 1995, attorneys general for 28 states alleged in a lawsuit. "These illegal actions certainly have not been music to the ears of the public," New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer said at a news conference on Tuesday as the lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan. The music companies maintain that they threatened to stop supplying discount chains with thousands of advertising dollars in the mid-1990s because the chains were selling CDs at below wholesale cost, driving some record stores out of business. They indicated Tuesday that they would contest the lawsuit. The lawsuit comes three months after the five major music distributors, while admitting no wrongdoing, settled Federal Trade Commission charges they unfairly inflated CD prices. Under that deal, the companies agreed to discontinue minimum advertised price programs that forced retailers to sell music CDs at or above a set level in return for getting substantial advertising funding. Spitzer said the lawsuit, which seeks unspecified damages, was meant to force record companies to pay back the profits they made illegally. He said he could not yet estimate the value of those profits but said the $480 million estimated by the FTC sounded reasonable. Keith Estabrook, a spokesman for BMG Music, said the company still believed that the pricing policy "was a legitimate and appropriate practice and we are confident that the courts will reach the same conclusion." Will Tanous, a Warner Music spokesman, concurred, saying the pricing policies served "a valid business purpose and benefited consumers by substantially furthering retail competition." "It was an appropriate and lawful practice," he added. Dawn Bridges, an EMI Music spokeswoman, said the claims were without merit. Sony Music spokesman Keith McCarthy said he had no comment, while Universal Music did not immediately return a telephone message seeking comment. Doug Curry, a spokesman for the Recording Industry Association of America, declined to comment. The lawsuit by the states essentially does what the FTC promised not to do in its settlement deal: seek damages for past pricing tactics. But the attorneys general said they were seeking damages on behalf of the consumers they represent. They said the record companies in February 1995 conspired to force several large discount retailers to raise prices after the retailers bought CDs in such large volume that they could undercut the prevailing high retail prices. "The purpose of the illegal agreements was to raise prices and reduce retail price competition which threatened the high and stable profit margins for CDs enjoyed by both the defendant labels and distributors and many music retailers," the lawsuit said. The deals initially drew vigorous protests from discount retailers but the chains eventually gave up because the financial penalty for not participating in the scheme was too costly, the lawsuit said. As a result, CD prices stabilized and then rose, the lawsuit said. Besides the record companies, the lawsuit named some large record stores as defendants, including Tower Records. Russ Solomon, chairman of the Sacramento, Calif.-based Tower, did not immediately return a telephone message. But he scoffed at the FTC's prediction earlier this year that the settlement would result in lower CD prices. "Prices are not coming down," he told the Los Angeles Times. "They're already at rock bottom. It's outrageous to mislead music fans to think otherwise." According to the FTC, the five companies distribute 85 percent of the music CDs sold in the United States, an industry that reported a record $15 billion in sales last year. The average CD now costs $14 to $17, though discount stores had once sold some popular CDs for as little as $10. The following states were named as plaintiffs in the lawsuit: Arizona, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. Also named as plaintiffs were the Northern Mariana Islands and Puerto Rico. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:06:07 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Test NJC <> Yo, Mike! Hear you loud and clear, pal!! Welcome! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 08:31:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: DESTE on DED (SJC/DKPC) - --- B Merrill wrote: > And you attribute these textures to Joni, and not > Thomas Dolby? You bet, and here's why. Dolby may very well have done the programming, setting up the sounds on the Fairlight CMI for Joni ... who's admitted being challenged in this area. BUT ... and here's the DKPC (Demon Keyboard Player Content!): The Fairlight CMI was the first viable "analog modeling" synth. To make a long story short, what the synth did was to generate the enharmonic resonance you get on acoustic instruments like the grand piano. So the Fairlight sound and texture would change depending on the overtones generated by the playing of the notes inthe chords. And since Joni played the parts herself, or certainly created them for others to perform, the resulting texture from the Fairlight was something you've never heard before or since. Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:54:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DESTE on DED - --- Don Rowe wrote: > I also don't think "Tax Free" is about Grenada -- > the > line in Steiger's monologue about "the Castros and > the > Khadafis" always made me think "that little island > SOUTH of Florida" -- was Cuba. But an interesting > twist, given the military action of the times. > I agree. The Grenada invasion happened around then, but it was a blip really (like, where'd that come from?). Cuba was and still is, apparently, the *big* threat to the far right type of mentality. Steiger (as Don pointed out) mentions "the Castros and the Khadafis (Quadaffis?)"; and Cuba is more what you'd think of as "south of Florida" - Grenada is too far to use Florida as a reference. It's close to Trinidad and Venezuela. (For more info, check out http://www.grenadines.net ) Aaah, makes me want one of those funny drinks with the umbrellas on 'em. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DED Part 2 (long and dangerous content) For some reason, I rec'd parts 2 and 3, but can't find part 1. Is it just me? Maybe it's one of those things where I'll receive it... later. Marcel, what is LAMM? ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:41:50 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Test NJC Hey Mike, We're here. Come on in, Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 11:06 AM > To: Mg41mk34@aol.com > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Test NJC > > > <> > > Yo, Mike! > > Hear you loud and clear, pal!! > > Welcome! > > Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:13:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Remember when? Boy howdy! And what with all the private vs. public posting wars fought since, the inevitable mix-ups would surely have had forced a change in what JMDL stands for. More like: Just My Dirty Laundry ;-D Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:19:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Remember when? Boy howdy! And what with all the private vs. public posting wars fought since, the inevitable mix-ups would surely have forced a change in what JMDL stands for. More like: Just My Dirty Laundry ;-D Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:23:37 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Test you do you do you do!!!!! welcome, buddy! wally k - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: "." Enviado: Miércoles 9 de Agosto de 2000 11:24 Asunto: Test > This is just a test, I am a new member and just wanted to make sure you all > can hear me!!! someone please respond so I know I belong. Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:28:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: My Job (NJC) - --- Evan + Vanessa Thomson wrote: > > Catherine advised: make him put > his > > own damn clothes away! > > > > But then how could I be a martyr? :-/ Oh no! You're Catholic, aren't you? (It takes one to know one!) > I have a friend you has a mortal fear of sock > puppets... he just > collapses and carries on when confronted with any > sock puppet imagery! It's a good thing he doesn't live here - there's a TV show featuring a character called "Ed the Sock". > Anyone else have an odd fear/dislike? I have > therefore concluded that > at a young, impressionable age something traumatic > involving a sock > puppet happened to him. I'm quite clever! I'm afraid of shopping malls and going anywhere where there are likely to be lots of people. I don't flip out, I just find excuses not to go. And I've never been fond of clowns, or people dressed up as cartoon characters like Fred Flinstone and so on, but I've managed to get over it. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:37:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: My Job (NJC) - --- Gerald McNamara wrote: > Have you ever heard about "Sylvester The Talking > Sock" ? He was on TV > here in Melbourne in the 60's. > Come to think of it, he was a solo sock, too. Not > one of a pair. So... was he the one that was eaten by the washing machine, or the other one? ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:42:27 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Repost: DED part 1 (long and treacherous content) Dog Eat Dog I have been following this Dog Eat Dog thing for a long time on this list. Some love it most (it seems) dont. For all the debate I couldnt figure out the validity of either argument. I had never heard the album and the cover REALLY turned me off. (will someone please give Joni a big doughnut). I love all of Jonis albums and I only have a couple left to listen to. I mentioned when I found a cheap copy of DED in the used bin I couldnt resist. Said I would review it for fun. Must have received 20 mails already some defending it some saying dont waste your time. Nothing gets dander up and euphoria raging quite like "Best song or album" debates on the JMDL. So here goes. I was prepared for one thing. Those who like or love this album always refer to it as a statement of the times or a sort of cultural timepiece. In that regard it is superb. The sound is a classic of the times with its guitar and synth effects, pounding drums and shiny effects. While there are some lyrics that are a mirror of the time I found others to be more a mirror of Jonis world. So a reflection of the times it is. Of course that sword cuts both ways as you will see from my fearless commentary. Donning the asbestos suit I take the plunge.... Good Friends The sound of this powerful production is the best possible music to have blaring on your car radio while driving on the LA Freeways. Its MTV, its LA, its Miami Vice soundtrack material, its slick, clean, clear, and has monster hit potential, but it isnt Joni. The first song has the mark of the beast as far as the eighties is concerned. Michael MacDonalds voice. You see a song cant be an Eighties song unless former Doobie Brother Michael MacDonald sings on it. Statistics from the Office of Management and Budget have shown that he sang on 97.365 % of every hit song ever done in the entire decade with the exception of Happy days are Here Again at the 1988 Demo convention and the Star Spangled Banner at the Superbowl although that tape is being rechecked to make sure. In the 80s however if you didnt have the voice that sang What A Fool Believes on your newest product you weren't officially part of the LA Music Mafia (LAMM) which included Davids Foster and Geffen and members of Toto. What is noteworthy about this is that his voice is singularly uninteresting on this song with the exception of his yelpy, signiture, high harmony. His voice plainly doesnt blend well with Jonis. In one place they are singing the same notes but his voice is so thin it does nothing to blend with Jonis. There are a few McDonald lines that it took about 10 listens before I realized he was actually singing. And who else is on this album but Steve Lukather the premier lead guitar gun (Toto) of all time who also was on every song done in the entire decade (if he wasnt then Eddie Van Halen or Steve Vai was).Why I mention this is because this is the first clue as to the fact that Joni by this time was seemingly trapped in the deepest part of the jaws of the LA music industry. Which frequently did things mostly because they were being successfully done by other artists. Whatever worked everyone else tried to copy, just like with the film industry. Unfortunately the goddess of prose (Joni) produces perhaps the mose banal lyrics she has ever written for this song. Remember the songs theme is meeting a friend... Sometimes change comes at you like a broadside accident There is chaos to the order Random things you can't prevent There could be trouble around the corner There could be beauty down the street Synchronized like magic Good friends you and me [ yo...joan....wazzup with this] No hearts of gold No nerves of steel No blame for what we can and cannot feel...........(and if you cant think of anything else to write, hey, reverse the lines order, cooool) No nerves of steel No hearts of gold No blame for what we can and can't control Good friends you and me [NB. How unprofound can you get yet the words sound so good together. Words like 'steel' 'gold' and 'blame' are known, effective, lyric power words. You find them in many songs but here they are all strung together. Hmmmm. Sort of the rock-equivalent of the country power lyrics, Mama, ma burnin' heart, ma dowg and ma truck. They each work well in a song but when you string them all together its overdone] Now there above is the most powerful lyric in the song. Sheesh. Remember this is one of the greatest poets of the generation. Words are her paints. So whats up with this blather. Of course someone will find "deep meaning" in this stuff but I really think they are weak by her standards. What does getting together with a good friend have to do with the words in this song, nada.Well thats all part of the involvemnent with the LAMM. In the 80s songs had to fit the formula. or else. While nothing was ever better than 80's LA production values the lyrics were often the result of too much blow meeting too many pretensions. Song lyrics became formulaic. Certain words (like the ones above)started showing up in every song that was produced by that system. My personal impression on this song is that Joni had less (if not lost) control of the creation process. The "synchronized like magic" line is a typical LAMM creation in which words that sound good together have no meaning. While the lyrics are in my opinion weak, the music tracks are pure LA sound and wonderful. I love the production on this album and this song. The producer used a synth as a timing track and the tracks shine. As the sharp and clear as crystal synth bass with the double scratch click track jump out of your speakers you cant help but picture yourself on the LA Freeway buzzing along above the limit, at least I cant. Who cares what the words mean, right? So although Joni got Pa Pa ooh mau mau'd on this song lyric wise, I'll give it an 7 1/2 because it sounds so good. I call this a 'bimbo" song. You wouldnt take it seriously it but it sure looks good. Fiction Ah yes those incredible drum tracks. I end up with a problem on this song. Even after numerous listens I cant remember a strong melodic passage. The producers were so in love with the sound of The Police and the Pretenders that they pushed for that sound and succeeded. They even forced Joni to sing like Chrissy Hinde (check out her inflection on the line 'image makers"). If one likes the Pretenders they will love this song because it sounds like every one of their songs. The form and the structure is a knock off. I would swear that Chrissy is playing the guitar and Stewart Copeland the drums. I KNOW they stole her (Chrissy Hinde's) equipment. Joni actually does a real close Chrissy Hinde vocal imitation; so much so in fact that she doesnt sound as much like Joni as she does Chrissy. Jonis imitating virtually all of Chrissy's inflections and coming damn close to her accent. Scary. While I may sound critical its still well done and in the terms of the LAMM it "works". Of course a multi-million dollar studio frequently does. I do think they missed their chance to have Sting do a background wailing "I want my MTV" like he did for Knopfler on Money for Nothing. But as I said the music works. The verses are sung in a sort of monotonish hue of little emotional content leading into choruses that have the great synth hook and cheery atmosphere. Unlike the first song the lyrics here are also sparse but possibly among the most revealing (of her current mood) of all of Jonis songs (or are they Kleins). Fiction of the moralist Fiction of the nihilist Fiction of the innovator and the stylist Fiction of the killjoy Fiction of the charmer Fiction of the clay feet and the shining armour Fiction of the declaimers Fiction of the rebukers Fiction of the pro and the no nukers Fiction of the gizmo Fiction of the data Fiction of the this is this and that is that ahh! I got a strong sense that Joni knew she was in the clutches of this thing called the muisc industry to the point where it was beginning to drain her of her identity and her self. Was that lifestyle-induced or not I dont know but the verse here is revealing. I sort of picture her as a person waking up the next morning sitting on her bed wondering whether she should get up or not. A person to whom it has suddenly occurred how far she is away from what she was and what she wanted to be. "Your not in Saskatoon Toto". All her ideals are revealed to be trash. Shes lashed to the ferris wheel as opposed to the merry-go-round. Big time Up and down as opposed to round and round. Nothing is making sense to her as the lyrics are clearly saying and I am mostly referring to her music. From the melodic folk era to Hejira style suddenly Joni is seemingly yeilding to the ideas of others. The song is very much different than any one that we know or strongly suspect that Joni had the final say in production and mixing. It seemed to me that she played the song on a guitar for "the boys" and they immediately went off and imposed their own style and feel. I could even imagine them telling her how it would go down. Production decisions already made maybe even tracks laid down prior to her entering the studio . I sensed that she is being pushed and cattle prodded in a direction that she knows is not "her". There is a feeling of exasperation in her voice when I listen to this song. Like a prisoner of war blinking S-O-S to the camera while they praise the enemy for the folks back home. However the classic LA sound which can turn any song into a viable product works on this as well. As such in spite of its knock off police style makes this a very strong song music and lyric wise. Ill give it an 7 1/2. The Three Great Stimulants I started to really like this song the third time I heard it. The first time I was distracted by the 'tick' track which again was a scourge of the 80s production values where the producers first discovered the Fairlight and the "good" drum machines and felt that this gave them perfection. Of course it also liberated their recording sessions from cranky to the max over coked drummers. And it also liberated the song from the atmosphere that can only come from a live drummer. The drum tracks on this song are those statement scale bouncing between speakers single blams that became the precurser of the modern movie sound track in which every little bit of sound becomes equal to the crash of a train. They perfected the drum track in the 80s and no song demonstrates that better than this one. This song also is filled with those classic keyboard and guitar fills you hear on many of the songs of that era like Sailing by Christopher Cross or Betty Davis Eyes by Kim Carnes or Maniac by Michael Sembello. The production also took on a replication of that other 80s monster producer in Peter Gabriel. He uses all kinds of sound effects to replace melodic instrumental parts and so in this song we hear a concrete power drill on the chorus. Very 80s and well done. The languorous repeating guitar line shimmering through a flange peddle. While there are some really great lyrics to this song also, the majority of the lyrics again vaporize into words that work but dont really mean much by themselves. Writing cryptic messages in your lyrics is a joni signiture but the lyrics here after multiple listens dont seem to be saying much to anyone. Artifice (pretense or deception) Brutality and Innocense. The three great stimulants. Motivators ? or opiates. Human nature's catalyst?? Possibly. The mystery of this began to distract me. How about The Exhausted Ones. What and who are they. People in other countries experiencing the wars referenced to, or us. Then I encountered the rosetta stone of the song in this verse. I saw a little lawyer on the tube He said "It's so easy now anyone can sue" "Let me show you how your petty aggravations can profit you!" Call for the three great stimulants Of the exhausted ones Artifice brutality and innocence Artifice and innocence Whats interesting to me is that this is not necessarily talking about just the 80s. This is deeper than corporate greed which everybody understands. This is a new kind of human greed. A lawyer advertising on night time cable is different than the hackneyed anti-corporate rant. Its also more focused on the root of the problem. People with such attitudes run corporations and the government as well as their lives. Oh these times, these times Oh these changing times Change in the heart of all mankind Oh these troubled times Knowing what we now know from Jonis recent interviews in which she waxes positively Nostradamusesque about the coming apocalypse we can safely say that while when she wrote these songs she may have believed that the Corporations were to blame . She knows the right wing doesnt run the music or media industry and yet she sees that this was when all the trouble started and she knows where it started. Last night I dreamed I saw the planet flicker Great forests fell like buffalo Everything got sicker And to the bitter end Big business bickered Intentional or not I began to ponder the lyrics of the song and lo and behold while doing so I come across this excerpt in the Congressional Hearings Reporter website I haunt. TIME WARNER chief executive Gerald Levin testified Thursday before a complete panel at the Federal Communications Commission. But candid comments made by Levin earlier this year during a media round table have some lawmakers in Congress concerned that something is foul with the latest greatest media marriage. Levin recently warned in the post-Cold War era there is only "American cultural imperialism." "There's no countervailing force, that's a significant problem," declared the man who will become the most powerful media executive in history if an AOL/TIME WARNER merger is approved by federal regulators. Levin sees a future where major media corporations take on responsibilities currently administered by governments. "We're going to need to have these corporations redefined as instruments of public service because they have the resources, they have the reach, they have the skill base, and maybe there's a new generation coming up that wants to achieve meaning in that context and have an impact, and that may be a more efficient way to deal with society's problems than governments," predicted Levin. [[I collect great quotes and I remembered this one and it really hit me after reading this]]] Abraham Lincoln’s letter to William F. Elkins, November 21, 1864? "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country…corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow [[ my remark: Hello Department of Commerce "trade missions"] , and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." Joni's been warning us about the corporations for years. Little did she know it was TimeWarner -AOL who would become the threat. This stuff may be heavy for an album review but the womans work is so HEAVY it blows my mind. Little did I realize that DED was so psychic. Got to give this one an 8 1/2 Part 2 to be continued. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:47:24 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Antidote for the Blues? Wednesday August 9 11:29 AM ET Misery And Music Go Hand in Hand in Morose Top 10 LONDON (Reuters) - What do Frank Sinatra, Nirvana and Leonard Cohen have in common? They made some of the most morose albums of all time, the British music magazine NME says. The Top 10 list of misery and tortured souls runs from Big Star's ``Sister Lovers'' and Billie Holiday's ``Lady In Satin'' to two offerings from Joy Division. Sinatra scored for his 1955 album ``In The Wee Small Hours,'' recorded in the same year he reportedly tried to kill himself as his marriage to Ava Gardner disintegrated. ``Music can be the most incredibly positive and uplifting experience and these are all classics,'' NME editor Ben Knowles said. ``But I wouldn't advise listening to too many of them in one sitting.'' And if the music isn't depressing enough, there's the sad footnote of the suicides of Nick Drake, Nirvana's Kurt Cobain and Joy Division's Ian Curtis. Here, according to NME, is the best music to accompany a bout of the blues: 1. ``Sister Lovers'' -- Big Star 2. ``Closer'' -- Joy Division 3. ``Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space'' -- Spiritualized 4. ``In Utero'' -- Nirvana 5. ``Songs Of Love And Hate'' -- Leonard Cohen 6. ``Lady In Satin'' -- Billie Holiday 7. ``In The Wee Small Hours'' -- Frank Sinatra 8. ``Pink Moon'' -- Nick Drake 9. ``Bubble And Scrape'' -- Sebadoh 10. ``Unknown Pleasures'' -- Joy Division ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #441 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?