From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #430 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Wednesday, August 2 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 430 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Profession poll so far....(NJC) [Don Rowe ] For Free - Petula Clark And ... (NJC) ["Susan" ] Re: The Profession poll so far....(NJC) ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: FBI to spy on email?? NJC [catman ] Re: Record companies wake up to On-Line music subscription (NJC) [catman ] profession [Leslie Shapiro ] Re: The Profession poll so far....(NJC) ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Jonatha and the evil "N" (but there IS Joni content!) [FredNow@aol.com] RE: Innocence MissionNJC ["Peg Eves" ] re: men have no soul only egos ["John Stilwell" ] Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] A Sunny Sunday ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Record companies wake up to On-Line music subscription (NJC) [Catheri] Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (NJC) ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (NJC) ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) ["Lori R. Fye" ] re: men have no soul only egos; LJC [B Merrill ] Re: Up pops a lawyer . . . NJC and long [RandyRemote ] Survey (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Mayo Report (NJC) [Michael Paz ] NJCRe: Record companies wake up to On-Line music subscription (NJC) [catm] Re: Up pops a lawyer . . . NJC and long [catman ] Re: Judge Patel (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: A Sunny Sunday [Kenny Grant ] Re: Survey (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Singer/Songwriters NJC [john low ] Professions Poll NJC [john low ] what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: FBI to spy on email?? NJC ["Chris Marshall" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:24:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: The Profession poll so far....(NJC) I am the Training Administrator and Instructional Designer ... creating and delivering computer-based training and simulations ... for a medium-sized industrial equipment firm in St. Louis, MO. Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 11:26:56 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: For Free - Petula Clark And ... (NJC) > Bob wrote: > > "Downtown" was her biggest hit (I'm guessing), but my favorite was > always "There Is A Place Where We Can Go" (guessing again on the title). > Since you brought it up, it came to mind that the Beatles did "There's a Place" and Petula did "I know a Place" - I believe. Unless Petula did both songs? Profession? Hmm, you may say I'm a ... Dreamer, but I'm not the only one! But seriously folks, I don't really have an exact title, but I am in the Futures and Options retail industry and am at this moment in time the Marketing Coordinator, design boring financial ads, schedule and reserve ad space, crunch numbers, sales support and coordinate marketing campaigns. Voted "Most Radical Student" in my all girls Catholic high school (1975) this is the last industry my teachers and classmates expected me to end up in! Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:45:51 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: The Profession poll so far....(NJC) that's funny....i thought you were an internationally acclaimed country western performing singer-songwriter/moody alternative mysterious alterego/music producer/musical director/ex-husband to jonimitchell.... which is it, mr. rowe, if that is your REAL name.... >From: Don Rowe >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: The Profession poll so far....(NJC) >Date: Wed, Aug 2, 2000, 10:24 AM > >I am the Training Administrator and Instructional >Designer ... creating and delivering computer-based >training and simulations ... for a medium-sized >industrial equipment firm in St. Louis, MO. > >Don Rowe > >===== >"Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. >http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:27:24 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Jonatha (NJC) You're so right about Jonatha Brooke. She's utterly outstanding. She has an enormous following in these parts. I think she might have been enrolled Amherst College. She's here alot. Seems like the tide is turning for her - in a good way Peg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 18:18:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: FBI to spy on email?? NJC The UK govt has been talking about doing the same thing. Hello Big Brother. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 18:23:42 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Record companies wake up to On-Line music subscription (NJC) > this despite the loss of > physical artwork and packaging, transportation and retailer overhead. There is no way i would buy. I like my artwork and sleeve notes etc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:18:29 -0400 From: Leslie Shapiro Subject: profession I treat obsessive compulsive disorder. My dirty little secret is my "obsession" with Joni; too far gone for help! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:11:13 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: The Profession poll so far....(NJC) Hello Marilyn As if people haven't been told already I'm an actor, mainly theatre but currently television Jamie Zubairi London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:10:40 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Innocence Mission NJC Wow. Really? Far out. Thanks for the response Peg > > > Hello Peg > > The Innocence Mission's 1989 album was produced by our own Larry > Klein and and Joni Mitchell-Klein (as they put it). > > > Jamie Zoob > > >Peg asks: > > What is Joni's connection there? Something about Kneeling > Elephant Records > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:33:06 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Jonatha and the evil "N" (but there IS Joni content!) "Kakki" >>I'm still convinced [Jonatha Brooke] is one of the very rare ones that >>only emerge every 20-30 years or so like Joni and Laura Nyro. She is truly >>phenomenal. Many of her alt tunings and much of her musicality rivals Joni. At the risk of firing off just another "me, too" post ... I completely agree. I would only add Shawn Colvin to make it a quartet. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:14:34 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Innocence MissionNJC Hey CC, or Karma, or whoever you are! Thanks for the Innocence Mission info. Interesting. I love the understatedness of their stuff. Don't you? Peg Peg > -----O > Yep, Larry was the producer of their 1989 record. I met Joni and > Larry at an > early 1990 show that Innocence Mission did at the Roxy in LA. > Their encore > that night was "Both Sides Now" which they dedicated to Joni. After the > show, I also told Joni that I thought Innocence Mission had used > some sonic > textures similar to CMIARS. Uncharacteristically not wanting to > take credit > for influence, her response was, "Naw, that was all their s**t, > except for > Both Sides Now." She obviously liked the Perises and their songs > very much, > and was very supportive of the work they and Larry did together. > > CC > > "The virtue of your style inscribed on your contempt for mine." -- JM > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:36:34 GMT From: "John Stilwell" Subject: re: men have no soul only egos *********By contrast, the antithesis of what I'm looking for is so-called "progessive" rock (a male bastion?) which is deliberately complicated and original, but is also (to me) often empty, since it does not connect with sincere expression. I think the two keys to this statement is the (to me) and the word connect. You may not connect with it. I'd like to know which progressive rock you are alluding to. I really connect with "Deliberately complicated music that does not connect with sincere expression". There is no more sincere expression IMO than an artist's mastery of an instrument or singing or lyrical style! Complicated music is usually complicated because one has reached the absolute pinnacle of his or her playing ability and is now pushing the limits of Expression! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:54:09 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC MOM of 4 great boys Hypnotherapist, specializing in Past Life Regression Publisher/Editor of The Light Network, a metaphysical/spiritual newsletter soon to publish the very last issue Ex teacher of authentic singing Ex leader of wild dolphin swims Professional hugger. ;-) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:58:28 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: A Sunny Sunday Yes, Mr. Bruce It is hard to compare Many artists (male and Female) to some such as Joni and Kate. I mean Aretha Franklin can sing but, she never conceptualized like Joni Or Kate. "The hounds of Love" is a very deep and somewhat disturbing/beautiful ablum that not-a-many human being could conjure up. And when you think of it, it is hard to think of a male conterpart to the "Joni/Kate" ideal.. I mean... It sure isnt Emerson Lake and Palmer. And that was a fascinating story about Zappa, cassy.. I have read alot and I havent come across any story of that Penis incident happening..but I belive it!! I wish i was there. I guess it is like seeing Van Morrison in Concert.. you know?? you have this 50/50 chance of getting a good show.. HE could storm off stage or spatter drunk comments to the audience..or it could be the most emotional music coming out of a white soul man one person has ever heard.. see ya ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:07:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Record companies wake up to On-Line music subscription (NJC) - --- catman wrote: > > this despite the loss of > > physical artwork and packaging, transportation and > retailer overhead. > > There is no way i would buy. I like my artwork and > sleeve notes etc. > Ohh nooo - a me-too post! But I agree. I love that stuff. I don't like knowing what I'm getting for Christmas before I actually get down to opening the present, whether it's savoring the moment and opening very carefully, or ripping the paper off. It drives me nuts when my kids go through the house looking for their presents before Christmastime, and I get so mad at them when they do this - or worse, when they want to tell me what they got for me for Christmas. I put my hands over my ears and hum loudly so I don't have to listen to them. To me, the waiting and anticipation are all part of the experience. Same thing with a new album. Before you even get it out of the package, there's all that anticipation going on (I wonder what this will sound like. I wonder what my favourite track will be - I can't wait to get this home to listen!) Then, after you struggle with all that plastic stuff on the outside of CDs, you finally get to listen to the music, you look at the pictures, you read the liner notes (and God bless those who include the lyrics in these, even if some of them are wrong!), you check out the musicians who contributed to the album (even though most of us probably don't know who these people are), you check out who gets thanked for what (and laugh at the ones who "thank God for giving me this talent" - how arrogant!) And, you can TOUCH all that paper, those pictures and so on - now if only they could add smell and taste (but not of those chemical fake things or that smell-or-rama stuff! Maybe they could include candy in every package!), it would be a total sensory experience! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (NJC) Kakki wrote: > Phyliss and I saw Jonatha Brooke at the Largo in > L.A. tonight. It was just her solo with an > assistant providing a revolving array of four > acoustic guitars which he kept busy retuning all > night. (not one to go the easy VG-8 route, yet). When Brian Gross and I saw Jonatha in October '99 (thanks for correcting me regarding the month, Bri), Brian yelled out something about the possibility of her using the VG-8. Jonatha replied (paraphrased) that she has one, but prefers the sound of her amplified acoustic. (I'm with her; I think the V-8 makes the guitar sound too tinny and because of that, I still haven't really warmed to TTT.) > Jonatha, forcing a smile and doing a long double > take: "Excuse me?" > > Someone: "PLAY BLEEKER STREET!" > > Jonatha, in quick comeback with voice raised loud > enough for all to hear clearly: "GO TO NAPSTER!" I take it "Bleeker Street" is a song from the new, as-yet-unreleased, album? Mary and I greatly enjoyed Jonatha's performance, as she opened for Joan Armatrading last Thursday night. She was unaccompanied and played for only 45 minutes, but she was superb! I'm thrilled for her that she was able to open for Joan and reach new listeners; most of the crowd seemed to really like her (although there were plenty of rude patrons who talked throughout her set, oblivious to those of us who wanted to hear Jonatha). Mary declared that she's a new fan! Lori in DC NPIMH: Ten Cent Wings __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:20:58 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (NJC) i saw jonatha here in slc at a small club called the zephyr last fall. she was AMAZING! i got turned on to her through all of her backup vocals for john gorka, david wilcox and cliff eberhardt. i kept hearing her voice in the background and going, who is that woman? so i finally found her album (this was about three years or so ago) right before a seriously bad three year relationship breakup. so "plumb" is the soundtrack of this really terrible time in my life-and i don't know what i would have done without that album. so of course, i had to tell her the whole story when she played here (she was kind enough to meet everyone after the show) and now my copy of "plumb" says "alison-you deserve so much better! jb" it cracks me up when i look at it because i must have sounded so pathetic when i was babbling to her about how her album saved my life! anyway, she is a really great person, so kind and funny and receptive. not to mention musically, just incredible. by the way, that idiot should have known to go BUY the Bleeker Street collection that her "bleeker street" version is on...the whole (2-cd set) is great. alison e. in slc np: jonatha, "plumb" of course... - ---------- >From: "Kakki" >To: >Subject: Jonatha and the evil "N" (NJC) >Date: Wed, Aug 2, 2000, 2:16 AM > >Phyliss and I saw Jonatha Brooke at the Largo in L.A. tonight. It was just >Someone: "PLAY (garbled)!" > >You could have heard a pin drop as most everyone waited for Jonatha's >reaction. > >Jonatha, forcing a smile and doing a long double take: "Excuse me?" > >Someone: "PLAY BLEEKER STREET!" >Jonatha, visibly riled, but more emboldened : "WHY DONCHA JUST GO DOWNLOAD >IT?!" SOO glad I have my OWN record company." > >As always, try to catch her if she comes your way. She's playing again at >the Largo tomorrow night. > >Kakki > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:15:46 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: SOUTH CAROLINA JMDLr's TAX-FREE WEEKEND (NJC) FYI for South Carolina JMDLr's: For the first time, the state of South Carolina is waiving the 5 percent state sales tax on school-related items for three days -- from 12:01 a.m. Friday to midnight Sunday. Items include, but not limited to: Clothing (any type), School Supplies, Computers and Software (any type), and etc. Have fun shopping!!! Smell good while on your shopping spree! Dove antiperspirant-deoderant sample 1-888-393-2444 Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:15:34 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) Lori wrote: > When Brian Gross and I saw Jonatha in October '99 > (thanks for correcting me regarding the month, Bri), > Brian yelled out something about the possibility of > her using the VG-8. Jonatha replied (paraphrased) > that she has one, but prefers the sound of her > amplified acoustic. (I'm with her; I think the V-8 > makes the guitar sound too tinny and because of that, > I still haven't really warmed to TTT.) I was struck last night at hearing so many gorgeous, Joni-fied tunings played in the old-fashioned, acoustic way. This will probably sound horrible but anyone who misses hearing Joni's acoustic guitar can get quite a nice fix listening to Jonatha play at a live show. But geez, it takes a lot of hard work - even with the assistant working non-stop to keep retuning the four guitars, Jonatha also had to do some "fine tuning" throughout the night. Just like Joni in the old days, these breaks gave her the chance great stage banter. The VG-8 just can't compare to the amplified acoustic in sound splendor. Joni pretty much had to go to the VG-8 because of her physical limitations brought on by her post polio syndrome. She had to do what she had to do. > I take it "Bleeker Street" is a song from the new, > as-yet-unreleased, album? No, it's a song she covered on an album that came out a couple years ago that was a tribute by a number of artists to the Bleeker Street musicians of Greenwich Village from the old days. Pearl and her husband gifted me with it when they visited here last year. It is a beautiful album. Last night Jonatha joked that she only sang it once and doesn't remember the words anymore. (She was still irked by the guy in the crowd ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:39:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: SOUTH CAROLINA JMDLr's TAX-FREE WEEKEND (NJC) <> Yes, I *am* aware of this, Ms. Coupon Queen...but you won't see me in any stores during this period! Way too crazy...I'll spend the extra money and keep my sanity - you oughtta see the grocery stores when they forecast snow down here! My wife decided to take on a second job, so she's been working at the mall...they told her last night to report to work at 7AM Saturday as they're going to open early and stay late! She's plenty pissed! Bob NP: Lisa Germano, "We Suck" ------------------------------ Date: 2 Aug 00 16:06:47 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: What am I....professionally speaking (NJC) Hello all, I'm a GEEK, propeller head, beanie boy, but not a nerd nor do I have a single plastic pocket protector. I'm a computer network person with a handful of professional certifications, but, if it has a keyboard, I'll drive it. I remember when personal computers didn't exist, when networks didn't exist, when macs were the only game in town. Lordy am I suddenly feeling old. Loren..... ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:07:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) <> Certainly doesn't sound horrible to me, Kakki, I understand you completely! When I saw Jonatha about a year ago here in town (and Victor was also there), I felt like the people who saw those early Second Fret shows must have felt. btw, Victor, that club (The Handlebar) is relocating to a slightly larger venue so they can start booking some bigger acts! To close down their club and raise some moving money, they're having a "Cash For Cash" show, local bands playing Johnny Cash tunes with all funds going to the club. They've also done Beatles & Dylan tribute funraisers, maybe I can talk them into a Joni one! Bob NP: Gin Blossoms, "Until I Fall Away" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:11:20 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Books & Textbooks Codes Get your textbooks for alot less. Some of these stores carry other books too.........including some of the recent books on Joni. http://www.VarsityBooks.com $10 off $90. Code: OFFER291 $10 off $90. Code: UK845 Free 2 day shipping with $25 order. Code: AP533 Free 2 day shipping with $25 order. Code: TRIP1613196 If you're gonna buy from varsitybook.com, you can also sign up with edu.com to get two $25 codes to apply to your orders. You'll need to go to varsitybooks through the edu.com website, thus you can use a varsitybooks coupon and redeem the edu.com coupon as well (after you have your order number from varsitybooks. You also don't have to buy the full amount in order to get the full rebate. Also your purchases get you points towards stuff like cds. http://www.textbooks.com Guaranteed 3 Day Delivery for a flat rate of $4.95 New and Used Textbooks, save up to 50%! New books with the textbooks.com Guaranteed Buy Back stamp save you the most money. We tell you before you buy that you'll get guaranteed money back! 10% discount to all Student Advantage members. Free Shipping. Code: 4024514648 Free shipping. Code: 4030297612 exp.10-15 http://www.Fatbrain.com Internet's most comprehensive bookstore for professionals 30% Off 2000CELEBRATE exp ?? http://www.used-textbooks.net/ $5 off $50 and fee shipping 25012 $10 off $70 and fee shipping 250120 exp 7/31 $10 off $70 and fee shipping 260343 exp 8/15 $10 off $70 and fee shipping 650483 exp 8/15 http://www.TextbooksForLess.com up to 40% off prices $10 of $90 http://www.textbooks.com/index.jhtml Free shipping with the code (4030297612) plus save additional 10% when you sign up for student advantage Also sell your old textbooks back for up to 50% more than college bookstores pay at http://www.bigwords.com. You check by ISBN # (found in the front page of the book) whether or not they will buy it, then select either cash or store credit. Example : a book bought for $55 plus shipping - they offered $46 store credit or $27 cash (check form). Once you have entered all the books, just print out their invoice and POSTAGE PAID address label and mail them in! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:30:48 +0100 From: "joe farrell" Subject: Jonatha Brooke live NJC The Jonatha Brooke concert at the Largo sounds like it was amazing. I've just bought the live album and have ordered "10 Cent Wings",cos i just can't stop playing the live album. Would love to see her live, hope she visits UK at some point. I'm sure more people will pick up on her music if it gets more exposure,or indeed any exposure!! Cheers, Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:45:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) Kakki wrote: > I was struck last night at hearing so many gorgeous, > Joni-fied tunings played in the old-fashioned, > acoustic way. This will probably sound horrible but > anyone who misses hearing Joni's acoustic guitar can > get quite a nice fix listening to Jonatha play at a > live show. It doesn't sound horrible, and you're right, Kakki, about getting that fix from Jonatha in concert. > But geez, it takes a lot of hard work - even with > the assistant working non-stop to keep retuning the > four guitars, Jonatha also had to do some "fine > tuning" throughout the night. Just like Joni in the > old days, these breaks gave her the chance great > stage banter. Since Jonatha was alone at the DC area show, she had to do all the retuning by herself; fortunately for her, she had only two guitars on stage. She did a fine job of keeping the audience amused while she tuned; I think that's an art in itself! > Joni pretty much had to go to the VG-8 because of her > physical limitations brought on by her post polio > syndrome. She had to do what she had to do. Although I don't care for the "tinniness" of TTT, I won't complain about Joni using the VG-8, especially if it allows her to tour. We're all blessed that she still cares enough to want to do it. > > I take it "Bleeker Street" is a song from the new, > > as-yet-unreleased, album? > > No, it's a song she covered on an album that came > out a couple years ago that was a tribute by a > number of artists to the Bleeker Street musicians of > Greenwich Village from the old days. Thanks for clarifying! I'll keep an eye (and an ear) out for it! Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:03:10 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: re: men have no soul only egos; LJC Hi John, I'd really rather not get into the hornet's nest of pointing to instances of progressive rock which stike me as relatively empty. I already have enough argument on my hands. On the other hand, if you can direct me to instance of progressive rock which are complicated and original and COMBINE these virtues with being lyrical, melodic, well-vocalized, sincere, from the heart... please do so! What do you have in mind? & I am not putting this to you as some kind of challenge. I really do want to learn about excellent songs that I don't know about, and if you can point me in that direction, I will be most grateful. I do want to "connect" to this complicated AND lyrical music that you promise. And I would be much more interested in this music if it were also sung, with sincere (not just clever, obscure) lyrics, and not, say, a Henry Cow instrumental. If you please, Bruce PS And don't get me wrong, John. I respect Henry Cow. OK? And Henry Cowell, too. But that's not what I'm after here. John Stilwell wrote: >*********By contrast, the antithesis of what I'm looking for is so-called >"progessive" rock (a male bastion?) which is deliberately complicated and >original, but is also (to me) often empty, since it does not connect with >sincere expression. > >I think the two keys to this statement is the (to me) >and the word connect. You may not connect with it. > >I'd like to know which progressive rock you are alluding to. I really >connect with "Deliberately complicated music that does not connect with >sincere expression". You're being paradoxical, right? Given: There is no more sincere expression IMO than an >artist's mastery of an instrument or singing or lyrical style! But isn't there also the matter of what the singer is singing about, no? Doesn't that mean anything to you? Complicated >music is usually complicated because one has reached the absolute pinnacle >of his or her playing ability and is now pushing the limits of Expression! I don't agree. Tho I wish it were so. B. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:10:51 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Up pops a lawyer . . . NJC and long Ron, great letter, and how wonderful to have you aboard! My only comment is that, since you (and others) have brought up the parallel between taping a song from the radio and copying from Napster; it seems to me that one very major difference is that with radio, you have to 'catch as catch can', you don't really know when something is going to be played (most of the time), while with Napster, of course, the material is part of a searchable database, available on demand 24/7. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:12:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (NJC) Hi everyone, I'm so glad you ladies saw a wonderful Jonatha show last night. Too bad you didn't get to talk with her afterwards Alison, I have the Bleecker Street cd, but it's only a single, not a 2-cd set. And it is great that the producers chose Jonatha to to the title track (originally performed by a couple of nice Jewish boys from NY) It's a great collection of 16 songs originally performed by people with all kinds of Joni connections, like Tom Rush, Leonard Cohen, Dylan, Judy Collins, Dino Valenti and Phil Ochs. And since I couldn't be in LA to see Jonatha last night, I went to see Natalie Merchant and a 7 piece band perform in a really great auditorium at the Washington Twp Center for the Arts. What a great show she put on, especially coming out for 2 encores. Thanks for 'making' me go, Mags! Later, Brian np: 10,000 Maniacs Live Unplugged - --- Alison wrote: > i saw jonatha here in slc at a small club called the zephyr last fall. she > was AMAZING! i got turned on to her through all of her backup vocals for > john gorka, david wilcox and cliff eberhardt. i kept hearing her voice in > the background and going, who is that woman? so i finally found her album > (this was about three years or so ago) right before a seriously bad three > year relationship breakup. so "plumb" is the soundtrack of this really > terrible time in my life-and i don't know what i would have done without > that album. > so of course, i had to tell her the whole story when she played here (she > was kind enough to meet everyone after the show) and now my copy of "plumb" > says "alison-you deserve so much better! jb" > it cracks me up when i look at it because i must have sounded so pathetic > when i was babbling to her about how her album saved my life! > anyway, she is a really great person, so kind and funny and receptive. > not to mention musically, just incredible. > by the way, that idiot should have known to go BUY the Bleeker Street > collection that her "bleeker street" version is on...the whole (2-cd set) is > great. Kakki wrote: > > >Phyliss and I saw Jonatha Brooke at the Largo in L.A. tonight. It was just > >Someone: "PLAY (garbled)!" > > > >You could have heard a pin drop as most everyone waited for Jonatha's > >reaction. > > > >Jonatha, forcing a smile and doing a long double take: "Excuse me?" > > > >Someone: "PLAY BLEEKER STREET!" > > >Jonatha, visibly riled, but more emboldened : "WHY DONCHA JUST GO DOWNLOAD > >IT?!" > SOO glad I have my OWN record company." > > > >As always, try to catch her if she comes your way. She's playing again at > >the Largo tomorrow night. ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:04:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Professions & Intellectual Property Profession-Singer/Songwriter (as an indie artist this includes being a record company too!). Prior to this I worked as grantwriter. I like songwriting much better! I have also been many other things, including a teacher. The most difficult, yet most rewarding job so far has been that of a parent! (definately under paid for this one...) Intellectual Property- I have learned a lot from all of the discussions re: napster. Although it is a very complex issue, I would be horrified if the intellectual property rights of individuals were not protected to the hilt. They have to be or we are all in trouble. Isn't it already shameful enought that music education is not considered equally as important as science or math or english or history, etc. in our schools. I am probably preaching to the choir here... The following may seem simple & obvious, but to me it comes down to being this simple. As a songwriter, I create for the pure joy & expression & deep satisfaction of doing so. But if I want to share my music with the rest of the world, outside of performing, I must record, manufacture, promote,& distribute, all of which takes lots & lots of MONEY. If I don't get compensated for this expense, I will still create, but only my dog is gonna get to hear it... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic…the album grows more intriguing with repeated listening" All Music Guide "lyrically, it's a work of art overall" Indie-Music.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:47:48 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: who is "w.o.h.a.m." about? who is "woman of heart and mind" written about?Does anyone know? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:36:49 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Up pops a lawyer . . . NJC and long Randy wrote: > Ron, great letter, and how wonderful to have you aboard! > My only comment is that, since you (and others) have >brought up the parallel between taping a song from the radio >and copying from Napster; it seems to me that one very >major difference is that with radio, you have to 'catch as >catch can', you don't really know when something is going to >be played (most of the time), while with Napster, of course, >the material is part of a searchable database, available on >demand 24/7. I think that in all our discussions of the arguable applicability of the "Fair Use" Act to the Napster case, it is very important to keep in mind that the U.S. District Judge Marilyn Patel, has already ruled in the Preliminary Injunction proceedings that Napster has committed infringement and opined that "Fair Use" does not apply here. Here is a quote from the news report appearing on Fox News last week: "Patel, in her ruling, appeared skeptical of Napster's claim, saying it was hard to envision applying the "fair use" principle to a worldwide service of some 20 million users." Even though the PI order has been appealed (which, as Erin pointed out is "standard operating procedure") I will personally be very surprised if any part, especially this aspect of her ruling, will be reversed by the Ninth Circuit. Most of the cases I've worked on in my career involve the decisions of the Ninth Circuit judges and they are a very sharp bunch ;-) I think there is more cause for optimism here than dread. Judge Patel's ruling, if upheld, will favorably set the stage for future protection of the copyright owners. The proponents of applying "Fair Use" to the Napster-like lawsuits will have to come up with a new argument. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 13:31:27 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Walecki Tickets Posted on the Lee Shore List for those who may still be looking for a ticket to the Walecki benefit Best, Paz Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:17:28 EDT From: Shiverblu@aol.com Subject: August 8th Walecki Benefit Tickets I have a pair of tickets available for the show on August 8. They are in Section B, **Row 1**, Seats 40-42 (next to each other). (These are in the front row of the regular-sale seats, not the Gold or Silver sections in the Pit). I'll sell them for what I paid for them through the ticket distribution system. Just give me a holler offlist. Here's the seating chart: http://www.ticketmaster.com/venue/la1/54/seat1.html btw.. i just looked at the venue rules and it says that no smoking or alcohol in the venue, but it doesn't say anything about cameras, recording devices, yadda. Does anyone know the skinny on whether cameras and recordings are cool? Paula ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 13:34:59 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Survey (NJC) Marilyn- I think this is a very interesting thread, thank you for doing it. I fall into a couple of categories because of the diversity of my work. I do audio, video, and lighting production sales (for concerts, tours, festivals, conventions, etc.) sales of audio, video, lighting for permanent installation (churches, The New Orleans Sports Arena, schools, night clubs and restaurants, offices, anywhere systems like this are needed), sales to musicians, studios, project studios, colleges, etc.) {I guess all this come under a sales heading}. I produce a music television program, my official title, Music Producer. I also am the announcer (yes the Don Pardo of Louisiana JukeBox) for the show. I am an independent contractor for music, video, and tour production (my clients range from the likes of MTV (production of a Dave Matthews video special, stage manager); Regis and Kathie Lee Show for Buenavista, stage manager; NFL Films; Michael Franks, Tour Manager; The Smithereens, Tour/Road Manager/Guitar Tech; Glenn Frey/Joe Walsh, guitar technician; Michael Murphy Productions, Video Production VH1 Concert Footage Sting, Allen Toussaint, etc.; Webcast on Riffage.com; Belmont Mills/Provident Music Distribution, Stage Manager/Production Manager for "He Chose The Nails" video shoot. In freelance work that I do I am very blessed to be a part of many diverse artists and music, and it is never boring work because of the diversity. I also am the President of the Ruth Paz Foundation and I sit on the Board of Directors of the International Hospital for Children. Thanks again for the chance to share my own work life with you and to learn about my fellow listers. Michael NPIMH-Where Have All The Lawyers Gone-(To the tune of Where Have All the Flowers Gone) (Hi Ron!) Thanks for the post on Napster/Law/Etc. It is nice to get more info from experts on the subject. We have all kinds of opinions here, but it's nice to have some "factes" to refer to. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 13:45:29 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Mayo Report (NJC) Hi Everyone- Prognosis is generally good from Mayo Clinic. Dad will NOT have surgery at this time. We are treating him with Hepran (very popular with ex presidents today) and will treat him with Cumadin to thin his blood. He had alot of blood clots in his lungs and everywhere. No wonder he was not feeling good. We have had a nice day today with Birthday Cake presents and we are going outside for awhile to enjoy some sun. We should be leaving here in the next couple of days and he will come back here in 6 weeks to check things out about the tumor. For now all healing thoughts, prayers, vibes, and good wishes (expresseed in emails and just sent silently) have worked. Thanks to everyone. Good wishs and blessings to all (esp. President Ford) and talk to you later. Peace Michael P.S. BEWARE Orlando, Florida, it looks like we will be going on our family trip (with dad and mys sisters family as well) to Wally World after all. We will be there next thursday the 10th thru Monday the 14th. Oh boy long lines in southeren heat!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:35:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJCRe: Record companies wake up to On-Line music subscription (NJC) > > > Then, after you struggle with all that plastic stuff > on the outside of CDs, you finally get to listen to > the music, you look at the pictures, you read the > liner notes (and God bless those who include the > lyrics in these, even if some of them are wrong!), you > check out the musicians who contributed to the album > (even though most of us probably don't know who these > people are), you check out who gets thanked for what > (and laugh at the ones who "thank God for giving me > this talent" - how arrogant!) And, you can TOUCH all > that paper, those pictures and so on - for me it is always wondering what the cover will be-with regard to Carly anyway who photographs exceptionally well. The camera loves her.(rather diappointed when i saw her interviwed-far too thin and didn't look anywhere near so glamarous). I too read all the liner notes, the thankyou's etc and the lyrics. With Joni I have to read the lyrics if I want to understand what she is singing. Her diction is not her strong point. Although i prefer cd's for sound, I do miss the old lp covers. I don't see why they can't still make them that big! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:40:21 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Up pops a lawyer . . . NJC and long > > while with Napster, of course, the material is part of a searchable > database, available on demand 24/7. The Carly song I wanted took a week to find and then took several attempts over three days to actually download it because the person whose pc it was on kept going off line before my download was finished!(By the way, they don't just have to on line-they have to be running Napster at that time too) > > RR - -- why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:42:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Up pops a lawyer . . . NJC and long > Marilyn Patel, as an aside, is she Asian or married to an Asian? Patel is a very common Asian surname here. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 19:00:39 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: who is "w.o.h.a.m." about? Hi, I'm not sure, probably could be anyone, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say James Taylor, cause two other songs on that album (Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire and For The Roses) are about him... -Kenny pondering the impact that these lyrics always had on me: "You criticise and you flatter, you imitate the best, and the rest, you memorize, you know the times you impress me most are the times when you don't try, when you don't even try." Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > who is "woman of heart and mind" written about?Does anyone know? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:51:35 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Judge Patel (NJC) > as an aside, is she Asian or married to an Asian? Patel is a >very common Asian surname here. I don't know colin, I've never met her or been in her courtroom. She is located in the Northern District court region (Northern California) and most of my cases are in the Central District (includes L.A.). She has a very distinguised record and has presided, and been upheld, on a number of critical intellectual property and other high-profile cases. I'd say she is an excellent person to be considering the Napster case. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 19:09:48 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: A Sunny Sunday Hey Blair, I think this little snippet of Joni's bio from allmusic.com sums it up nicely: "Fiercely independent, her work steadfastly resisted the whims of both mainstream audiences and the male-dominated recording industry -- while Mitchell's records never sold in the same numbers enjoyed by contemporaries like Carole King, Janis Joplin or Aretha Franklin, none experimented so recklessly with their artistic identities or so bravely explored territory outside of the accepted confines of pop music, resulting in a creative legacy which paved the way for performers ranging from Patti Smith and Chrissie Hynde to Madonna and Courtney Love." -Kenny Blair Fraipont wrote: > Yes, Mr. Bruce > It is hard to compare Many artists (male and Female) to some such as > Joni and Kate. I mean Aretha Franklin can sing but, she never > conceptualized like Joni Or Kate. "The hounds of Love" is a very deep and > somewhat disturbing/beautiful ablum that not-a-many human being could > conjure up. > > And when you think of it, it is hard to think of a male conterpart to > the "Joni/Kate" ideal.. I mean... It sure isnt Emerson Lake and Palmer. > And that was a fascinating story about Zappa, cassy.. I have read > alot and I havent come across any story of that Penis incident > happening..but I belive it!! I wish i was there. I guess it is like seeing > Van Morrison in Concert.. you know?? you have this 50/50 chance of getting a > good show.. HE could storm off stage or spatter drunk comments to the > audience..or it could be the most emotional music coming out of a white soul > man one person has ever heard.. see ya > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:12:51 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Survey (NJC) Michael wrote: << Marilyn- I think this is a very interesting thread, thank you for doing it. I fall into a couple of categories because of the diversity of my work. I do audio, video, and lighting production sales > Mikey, I thought I heard from.....mmmm what is his name, maybe {{{{{{MARCEL}}}}}}}, that you were also the mascot for the New Orleans Saints :~) Jimmy, (who's enjoyed all of the offlist emails about clams) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:16:44 +1000 From: john low Subject: Singer/Songwriters NJC I’d like to suggest that Robert Wyatt’s “Rock Bottom” (1974) satisfies all the qualities sought in this discussion. Recorded after he had lost the use of his legs in a fall from a window, it is a stripped back, emotionally raw album. But the quality that really sets it apart as a ‘classic’ is the humour he brings to bear on his predicament. There is no self pity, just an honest and courageous look at the hand life has dealt him. John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:19:13 +1000 From: john low Subject: Professions Poll NJC I'm a librarian in a public library. John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:34:15 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC Accountant on call here: I work for a nonprofit, member owned and operated financial institution. Otherwise known as a credit union. rose (in NJ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 00:46:47 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: FBI to spy on email?? NJC Colin said:- > The UK govt has been talking about doing the same thing. > Hello Big Brother. In fact, not only do they want to do the same thing, but they're a long way towards doing it already. They even tried to turn the UK's "innocent until proven guilty" rule on its head in some related legistlation, but I seem to recall that the House of Lords squashed that one flat. However, it looks likely that the Internet isn't going to be as private a place as your phone. It never was that anyway, but the point is that all the new legislation that is coming along seems to erode basic human rights, but because most average people in the street don't comprehend the issues, they don't end up caring (or knowing how or why to care). The legislation gets steamrollered through more easily as a result. It's only going to be in 5 or 10 years that we see the downsides to that, I reckon. www.fipr.org has all the details of this stuff, and more, and will be more correct than I. In fact, the following http://www.fipr.org/rip/index.html#Observer250600 gives a quick overview of the sensible view, versus the governmental spin-assisted view. I'm an internet security tecchie by trade, and the left hand column is the one laying out the facts. [ Interesting side issue. We're getting new speed cameras here in the UK, which do image recognition of car number plates as they pass two fixed points on a motorway. If the average speed is over the limit, you get nicked. The trick bit is a direct link to the UK Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency computer, so that all this can be automated. Just think... once these cameras are widespread, they know where you are, or at least where your car is. Now I'm not particularly paranoid, but occasionally it's nice to have the freedom to go somewhere, anywhere, and know that no-one else knows where you are. Big brother is definitely alive, well, and growing big and strong. ] - --Chris (particularly off-topic today, so sue me :-) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #430 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?