From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #427 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 1 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 427 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Copyright law (NJC) was Napster [Steven Barton ] Re: twilight zone NJC [catman ] Re: Hostage smiles on presidents [Dflahm@aol.com] Lawyer downloading [NJC] [MDESTE1@aol.com] Men have no soul only egos. [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Hostage Smiles, Freedom Scribbled [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Miles of Aisles Questions ["Reuben Bell" ] Napster vs JMTTrees [Julian51469@aol.com] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] [Don Rowe ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] [Siresorrow@aol.com] male songwriters [Erin Stoy ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] ["M & C Urbanski" ] more... [Erin Stoy ] what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC [pat holden ] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [pat holden ] Re:Ferron Pegged (NJC?) ["P. Henry" ] RE: Men have no soul only egos. ["Peg Eves" ] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [Les Irvin ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] ["Kakki" ] re: Innocence Mission ["c Karma" ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] ["M & C Urbanski" ] RE: male songwriters ["Eric Wilcox" ] RE: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC ["Eric Wilcox" ] response to Nickel Chief, re: Subway graffiti ["c Karma" ] P Henry/Ferron question ["Peg Eves" ] Bootlegging / NJC [Don Sloan ] njc don't forget the njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos. ["cassy" ] Re: twilight zone NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] [catman ] Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC [catman ] Re: Ferron Pegged (NJC?) [catman ] Re: Miles of Aisles Questions [jp ] Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC [catman ] Re: twilight zone NJC [catman ] RE: Men have no soul only egos. ["Peg Eves" ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] ["Kakki" ] Re: Shiny Toys! ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Shiny Toys! ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: twilight zone NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: twilight zone NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: twilight zone NJC [Catherine McKay ] Subway magic (NJC) ["c Karma" ] Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 00:09:10 -0700 From: Steven Barton Subject: Copyright law (NJC) was Napster Good post Erin! I have a question about fair use. There is a DVD now available of James Taylor Live at the Becon Theatre. It has a terrific song called Belfast to Boston. The whole concert is really great, in fact. I want to give this set to my sister, who adores JT, but doesn't have a DVD player. I made an analog-only transfer to CD, "so that I can listen in my car." If I run off another CD of the audio only for my sister, am I infringing on the copyright? This title has not been released on CD. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:36:30 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC > > > Electrocution lessons?! That must have been a painful way of learning to > talk proper! The geordie accent is so thick thay have to use such extreme methods! > Mind you, I've heard about what goes on in those public > schools in Britain... mmm well he hated it. not a good thing to do to children. why have them if you pack them off somewhere else? > > > Hell > _____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ - -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:48:52 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Hostage smiles on presidents "subway riders" in general, I'm not sure. I think she was referring to the graffiti which inundated and covered the subway trains & stations at the time, at least in NYC. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:47:23 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Lawyer downloading [NJC] In a message dated 7/31/2000 9:00:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << I wish we had a lawyer here on the list who would clarify more of these issues to us >> Now this is interesting.So much so that I need to ask this question. Is it true that there are ZERO lawyers on this list. Now that Kakki mentions it I dont recall any poster saying they are in fact a lawyer. For over two going on three years. There are nearly a thousand people on this list and NONE are lawyers ?? The sociological ramifications of this are staggering. Is Jonis music to a lawyer like a crucifix to a vampire?? Joni would certainly love that one. If this is true wouldnt it be interesting to know which band has all the lawyers on its list? Megadeath? Twisted Sister? Only the shadow knows I guess. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:06:28 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Men have no soul only egos. GSVanMetre@bemis.com writes: << A corollary might well be that mostly women sing from the soul and men from the ego. >> I have watched and read this thread and it has been stunning in its seriousness.This is a joke. Are y'all kidding or what. Who on earth can make a judgement like this. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, Elvis, Steve Winwood, all had no soul ? They all sang for ego ? Is this what is being suggested? This thread would be called sexist if the subject was reversed. I cant stop laughing. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:25:14 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Hostage Smiles, Freedom Scribbled A particular moment for "hostage smiles?" Sure--Nixon, especially during Watergate. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:21:18 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Questions That's interesting... I never realized that there was a lot of banter missing on the USCD of MOA. I always assumed that there had been none to begin with. Its been a long time since I listened to the whole thing, but I think its limited to the Van Gogh speech, and the "the more out of tune voices the better?" bit before "The Circle Game." Now...I'll have to hear the rest. BTW, my disc (purchased ca. 1990) has the introduction of Joni at the very beginning. Reuben np: KD Lang "Summerfling" Reuben Bell Events and Public Relations Coordinator Glencairn Museum Bryn Athyn, PA www.glencairnmuseum.org >>> "Jamie Zubairi" 07/31/00 04:46PM >>> When I first heard the new versions ( and you can tell that there is more music to it because the new versions have the track times and the whole thing is longer) I was struck by the LA Express 'This time it's our pleasure to introduce: MISS JONI MITCHELL!!!!!. On my old CD it just starts with YTMOIAR. If you were thinking about buying, please buy with no doubts as to editing out of her banter, it's all there like my original records. Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:30:09 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Napster vs JMTTrees Hello Everyone, Thsi is just my opinion but here goes anyway... I have been following some of this here Napster and "sharing" software debates and nobody seems to have brought up the point of view that Napster makes people into stupid collectors...let me explain. I used to work in a wonderful, well stocked, well educated, independant record store. From my experience there I felt that the people who came in really cared a great deal about music, wanted to hunt down the more obscure tangents of thier favorite artists and really learn about the history, environments and supporting artists that made the music that was dear to thier heart. When I found the JMDL (amongst other lists and sights) I was able to delve in further to the worlds that I loved and was/am able to share more of these obscure and eclectic insights. My personal experience with Napster is that half of the downloads are interupted, incomplete, titled wrong and worst of all...I have most of the stuff already because they are on officially released and still in print recordings. The music retail business is now losing a large portion of sales to college students and others because folks are getting "free" music..."Why go down to the store and buy a CD when I can get it all for free on line." This poor group of folks don't have a clue what they're missing out on. The beauty of trading with the Tape Trees is that I know that I am getting something that is not in print (and probably never will be), in a complete form and in a superior sound version. Yes copywrite infringement sucks but for me what is the more sinister element here is that a whole generation (several generations actuall...all at once) are being duped into a false sense of history, beauty, and awareness of the full breadth and width of musical experience. Napster retards yer musical heart. 'Nuff said. Julian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 06:54:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: If this is true wouldnt it be interesting > to know which band has > all the lawyers on its list? Megadeath? Twisted > Sister? All the lawyers, I think, are 'in love' with -- Jackson Browne! Which would also go a long way to explaining the dearth of them on the jmdl, yes? ;-D Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:54:09 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] In a message dated 8/1/00 8:01:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << Is it true that there are ZERO lawyers on this list. >> not sure, but isn't vince the rev a lawyer by day? and there was a lawyer before named Brett who signed on as Codeb i think who went to south america and he is a lawyer. and then, wouldn't don rowe have a lawyer somehwere in his multiple personality litany of characters? and i think paul i would make a fine lawyer. so maybe we could dub him the title of List Lawyer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 06:57:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: male songwriters To Bruce (and everybody!), Paul Simon's Graceland is beautiful and expressive lyrically and musically, from beginning to end, along with being a project of great ambition and significance. Don't you agree? Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:14:33 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] In a message dated 8/1/00 6:54:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Siresorrow writes: << and there was a lawyer before named Brett who signed on as Codeb i think who went to south america and he is a lawyer. >> Are you saying that the only lawyer has fled south of the border ?? egad. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:13:30 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] > << I wish we had a lawyer here on the list who would clarify more of these > issues to us >> > > Now this is interesting.So much so that I need to ask this question. Is it > true that there are ZERO lawyers on this list. Now that Kakki mentions it I > dont recall any poster saying they are in fact a lawyer. For over two going > on three years. There are nearly a thousand people on this list and NONE are > lawyers ?? As I recall there was a guy on the list a couple years ago who was a lawyer, I think he was from Germany. There was one other woman who I believe was a paralegal. I have no idea if they are still around. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:17:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: more... RoseMJoy quoted Thomas Jefferson: "That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property." This quote really has nothing to do with Napster. Jefferson's statement that ideas are free to be spread is still with us today in the form of copyright laws. In fact, the point RoseMJoy was making about free ideas already exists in our current system. Indeed, *Copyright does not occur until an idea is fixed on a permanent medium.* So ideas are not subject to copyright, but as soon as they are part of something physical, like a piece of paper or a tape/CD, they ARE subject to copyright. Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:19:49 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC Since the question arose about no attorneys on the list, I thought it would be interesting to see what the professions of listers are, I'd be glad to do the tally and post the results. I am in the mental health field. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:27:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: male songwriters - --- Erin Stoy wrote: > To Bruce (and everybody!), > Paul Simon's Graceland is beautiful and expressive > lyrically and musically, from beginning to end, > along > with being a project of great ambition and > significance. Don't you agree? > Erin > Now I'm confused ... I thought 'Graceland' was morally bankrupt, bourgeois musical imperialism. ;-D Don Rowe (Who knows damned well Mr. Simon is neither morally bankrupt, bourgeois nor an imperialist.) ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:32:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] <> It's a gross generalization of course, but I would say that Lawyers are more cerebral types whereas we JMDLer's are more feeling types. I've got a friend who makes his legal living defending people who have committed heinous crimes. He sees his job as trying to find a way to use the law to exonerate or minimize punishments for his clients. I don't think too many of us could passionately defend somebody like this, turning justice into "Just Ice, governed by greed and lust"... By the same token, I know that there are many lawyers working for good and right causes, so like I said it's not fair to lump them in a big pile... I *do* know that 100% of the Kayak & Canoe Accessory buyers on the list are HUGE fans of Joni (and Jackson too, for that matter! :~D) Bob NP: Foo Fighters, "Weenie Beenie" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:46:07 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC M & C Urbanski wrote: > Since the question arose about no attorneys on the list, I thought it would > be interesting to see what the professions of listers are, I'd be glad to > do the tally and post the results. > > I am in the mental health field. > > Marilyn Im a writer (life writing, poetry, stories) and to put bread on my table I am part of the management team at Indigo Books here in Canada...my work history is really varied...I am a freelance artist (signage, lettering, calligraphic art), Ive worked as a pharmaceutical technician in Ontario and Nova Scotia, Ive worked in two graphic arts establishments, Ive done advocacy work for women (violence against women), Ive worked in the adoption field vis a vis search, research and support and advocacy work. And these are just the main things. Lots of little things on the side..Ive worked in literacy programmes with kids...(kids are one of my greatest weaknesses...i feel they are highly undervalued in our society)..Ive done editorial work, newsletters, writing for journals and such. hmmm thats about all i can come up with now. Mags np: be still , zoebliss - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:48:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC - --- catman wrote: > The phone rang and this voice just launched into > conversation. I knew I > knew the voice but couldn't think who this was. The > accent was strong > and northern, Geordie. Eventually I said'who is > this' and my John(whom I > have lived with 19 years) says 'it's me you fool'. ... > The point is I had never heard John speak anything > other than his almost > BBC accent. He was sent to public school(here that > means fee paying > private)and had electrocution lessons so he spoke > properly. *Electrocution* lessons?! Colin, you are too funny :D I once worked with someone, thinking she was Canadian, from the north. She had worked for CBC radio in Sudbury and had *no* accent that I could discern, although I always thought her diction was better than the average Joe, but I attributed that to her having worked as a newscaster. One day I overheard her speaking to another co-worker, who was from England - in a perfect English accent. I asked her how she could do the English accent so well, and it turned out she was indeed English but, when she came to work for the CBC, they wanted someone who *sounded* more Canadian - so she was able to change her accent. Most people who try to change their accent sound kind of fake, but some people are really good at it. And people change their accent according to who they're with. Another friend of mine is from Jamaica but her English is pretty neutral-sounding - unless she's yakking with other Jamaicans, at which point I can't understand a word she's saying! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:03:43 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing from his heart and soul? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:16:57 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> Relayer adds: <> And how about James Brown -- soul and ego! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 11:25:20 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com > writes: > > << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, > Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing > from his heart and soul? what a statement...men have no soul. cant get my head around that one at all. especially because of the soulful men i know . mags. thinking bout a video i recently watched about stan rogers...now if that isnt soul and emotion...i dont know what is. np: sleeping in hollow trees, yep playing zoebliss all over again. :) - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 08:25:24 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re:Ferron Pegged (NJC?) Susan L.A. wrote: >>Hi Peg and all, Myself, I fail to see Ferron as NJC since she is so Jonified. And yes, she definitely outdoes Joni in the poetically under-rated department...it ought to be illegal to cast such blazing talent out in the cold like she has been...I respect her for being herself... "...Love takes so much courage, Love takes so much shit..."-JoniM Clearly, many people require an attitude adjustment ;~) Here is what I would say to Ferron if she were here: It's not those that inflict the most but those who can suffer the most who will conquer...never surrender! "...battle on with the love you're living on..."-belted by Streisand/Gibb Susan L.A. I am your angel ;~) >> hi susan, why does it say on my mp3 file, which I'm downoading, "Gay Lesbian Folk Ferron"? pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:09:27 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Men have no soul only egos. AL GREEN !!! Heart & Soul Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Murphycopy@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:17 AM > To: Relayer211@aol.com; MDESTE1@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. > > > In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > MDESTE1@aol.com > writes: > > << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, > Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> > > Relayer adds: > > < doesn't sing > from his heart and soul?>> > > And how about James Brown -- soul and ego! > > --Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:45:25 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. In a message dated 8/1/00 8:13:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << < A corollary might well be that mostly women sing from the soul and men from the ego. >> >> The refutation of this statement lies in the careers of Otis Redding and Celine Dion. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:05:23 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. At 09:03 AM 8/1/2000, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing >from his heart and soul? Or how about David Wilcox, Michael Johnson, Chris Isaac, Van Morrison, Loudon Wainwright III, and David Lee Roth? (Just kidding on the last one there folks...) Les NP: Kentucky Colonels "Billy in the Lowground" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:55:03 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] Now, now you all. We've always had a few very nice lawyers on the list! Brett gave up his practice and went to either So. American or Africa (Guyana or Ghana, can't recall) to use his legal background to help people. Winfried from Germany has been quiet here since he passed his bar exams, but he is also a great person. As is our Mary Pitassi, who is also a beautiful writer. And Rev Vince is both a lawyer and a paralegal. I'm a paralegal. I'm sure there are more from the legal profession here and some should consider becoming lawyers. And I know of at least three partners in my law firm who think Joni rules supreme ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:13:50 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Innocence Mission Yep, Larry was the producer of their 1989 record. I met Joni and Larry at an early 1990 show that Innocence Mission did at the Roxy in LA. Their encore that night was "Both Sides Now" which they dedicated to Joni. After the show, I also told Joni that I thought Innocence Mission had used some sonic textures similar to CMIARS. Uncharacteristically not wanting to take credit for influence, her response was, "Naw, that was all their s**t, except for Both Sides Now." She obviously liked the Perises and their songs very much, and was very supportive of the work they and Larry did together. CC "The virtue of your style inscribed on your contempt for mine." -- JM ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:19:29 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] > Brett gave up his practice and went to either So. American or Africa (Guyana > or Ghana, can't recall) to use his legal background to help people. > Winfried from Germany has been quiet here since he passed his bar exams, but > he is also a great person. As is our Mary Pitassi, who is also a beautiful > writer. And Rev Vince is both a lawyer and a paralegal. I'm a paralegal. > Kakki And I shall put this info in my poll Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:24:30 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: male songwriters I'm surprised I hadn't thought of that work. GRaceland is indeed a beautiful and wonerfully written piece. Too bad he's never eclipsed it since, IMHO. :) eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Erin Stoy Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 8:57 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: male songwriters To Bruce (and everybody!), Paul Simon's Graceland is beautiful and expressive lyrically and musically, from beginning to end, along with being a project of great ambition and significance. Don't you agree? Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:26:47 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC I'm a student studying Art History at the University of Wiscosin in Madison. eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of M & C Urbanski Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 9:20 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC Since the question arose about no attorneys on the list, I thought it would be interesting to see what the professions of listers are, I'd be glad to do the tally and post the results. I am in the mental health field. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:30:10 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: Men have no soul only egos. What about James Taylor? Maybe he's been mentioned already-- but after seeing him live a few times-- you realize not only what a great performer he is-- but what a genuine person he is. eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Les Irvin Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:05 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. At 09:03 AM 8/1/2000, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing >from his heart and soul? Or how about David Wilcox, Michael Johnson, Chris Isaac, Van Morrison, Loudon Wainwright III, and David Lee Roth? (Just kidding on the last one there folks...) Les NP: Kentucky Colonels "Billy in the Lowground" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:29:48 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Shadows and Light For me, this song is about the juxtaposition of images and the contrasts which those images elicit if we think about them, "Shadows and Light." Joni is describing images we all have seen during our lives and using them as examples of this contrast of dark and light, good and evil, ingenuousness and corruption, the age-old incongruities. Everywhere we look there are these little ironies like "Freedom scribbled in the subway," How many of those travelling the subways daily are free? Heading to jobs they hate (most of them) in order to provide for lives they're trapped in; the "hostage smiles on Presidents," hostages smiling, glad to be released and home, bright in their enthusiasm for a return to their lives and families, smiling at the politician whose government's policies likely caused their hostage situation and who can't wait for the photo opportunity presented by the hostage release, this polarity is pretty self-explanatory. Cassy N.P. Joe Jackson "Night and Day" CD - track "Real Men" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:44:42 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: response to Nickel Chief, re: Subway graffiti Being NYC born and bred, and having attended a specialized NYC high school which required taking mass transportation to the Bronx through Manhattan EVERY DAY for 4 years, I witnessed the IND/BMT/IRT art in its FULL GLORY. Except for the full car masterpieces which also made the interior of the train look like a church as the sunlight permeated the colors like stained glass, I don't much miss the scrawls. Jogging other memories of the time, does anyone remember the hair picks that had the integral folding handle in fashionable black power colors? They fit in the back pocket of Levis perfectly! Or, huk-a-poo shirts worn with glitter belts and jeans, girls? "Marshmallow" oxfords, "Li'l Abner" workboots? DeeCee painters' pants (in white or natural), "French" patchwork denim? Cotton Indian gauze with mirror applique? Flat leather sandals with toe loops (were they called "water buffalos")? Actually, one graffito has stuck with me long after it faded off the wall in Sunnyside, Queens. The writer didn't credit to another, so I will assume it's original. Please feel free to enlighten me if it's famous. It read, "Love is open arms. If you close your arms to love You will find you are left Holding only yourself." CC "We came up from the subway on the music midnight makes." -- JM NP: Miles Davis, FINAL (take 3) from Ascenseur pour L'echafaud (Lift to the scaffold) soundtrack ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:58:41 -0700 From: Slac Subject: Re: Ferron Pegged (NJC?) Good Morning Pat! You wrote: > why does it say on my mp3 file, which I'm downoading, "Gay Lesbian Folk Ferron"? People (including those at MP3) seem to have a driving need to categorize everything including each other...like two year olds with those wooden learning tools where they match the 3d shapes to the holes in a board ;~D The reality is that people are complex: some of us more so than others...In my opinion, for what it's worth, neither Joni nor Ferron are shaped to fit any known board and for this alone I salute them! On top of this they are both excellent poets...Unfortunately, for so many people the unknown strikes terror to their cores when it should be great cause for happy excitement! What is your opinion Pat? Susan L.A. I am your angel ;~) "...it's a huge and limitless sky describing what will be..."-Ferron, "Still Riot" from STILL RIOT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:38:31 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: P Henry/Ferron question Hi P Henry, As I suggested in an earlier post, Ferron was pigeon-holed immediately because she was way out of the closet from the inception of her career. There may be some truth to the suggestion that she was kidnapped by the "women's music"market. There is NOTHING exclusive in her lyrics. Like everyone else, she is lots of things. Formost a poet, a singer & a musician ; an authentic artist of the highest order and a brilliant person. IMHO, the gay label has been a profound impediment to her career. The fact that MP3 has to call her "lesbian, gay" folk agitates me to no end. Peg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:15:31 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: Bootlegging / NJC While we're on the subject, here's an interesting short article: =====> Disabilities act benefits bootleggers at concerts Country: United States A sound system designed to comply with ADA requirements for assistance to the hearing-impaired has provided bootleggers with a new tool to make illegal high-quality live recordings of concerts. (7/31/00) URL: http://www.oklahoman.com/cgi-bin/getarticle?ID=524020 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:13:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: njc don't forget the njc Hi Gang, I know I'm as guilty as the next...we're getting sloppy with our "NJC's" of late... Please make it a habit to peruse your subject line before you hit 'send'...if the post should have an NJC, put one there. Your brothers & sisters who only want Joni posts will appreciate it! :~) Bob NP Foo Fighters, "My Poor Brain" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:10:20 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. From the varied responses I've seen on this thread I can only surmise that the question then becomes "What *is* soul?" The answers will be as individual as the artists we perceive to *have* soul. Joni has *it*, soul, many other artists also have *it*, I don't think it's an issue of gender, it's a completely different approach to their art. While the artist would like to generate enough capital to live the life they're accustomed to, it's not the primary guiding factor for their creativity, most of those with the elusive "soul" give us insight into their very essence whether it's a painting, music, writing, sculpture or textile arts! Anima rises without being bidden and is recognized regardless of whether one has a penis or a vagina. Cassy NP Brian Ferry "Bête Noir - Limbo" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:37:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC Helen wrote: > > Mind you, I've heard about what goes on in those > public > > schools in Britain... - --- catman replied: > mmm well he hated it. not a good thing to do to > children. why have them if > you pack them off somewhere else? I've never understood that much myself. Until my daughter reached age 13 - now boarding school sounds like a fair option ;) ("Ever since we turned 13, it's like a minefield going the door - going out you get the third degree, coming in you get the third world war" - there's a joni-moment everywhere!) The thing I don't understand is why you Brits call these schools "public" schools - over here in Canada, a "public" school is one that is paid for by "public" (i.e., taxpayers') money. The ones people pay $10,000 or more a year for (excluding board) are called "private" schools. Is it the same reason why you drive on the wrong side of the road? ;) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:19:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] > There was one other woman who I > believe was a paralegal. I think this is our Kakki. > I have no idea if they are still around. > > Marilyn - -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:21:09 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC > > > I am in the mental health field. Me too!!! > > Marilyn - -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:24:42 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC > > and had *no* accent that I could discern, I don't have an accent. To you and the Americans, I sound like i have an English accent but I don't have an english accent of the type that would indicate where in the UK I come from. This is because I l;ived abroad most of my life till 17yrs old. I once had a braod Aussie accent from lving there for 5 years. Now I have a nothing accent. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:26:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Ferron Pegged (NJC?) > > > hi susan, > why does it say on my mp3 file, which I'm downoading, "Gay Lesbian Folk Ferron"? possibly because she is a lesbian. > > pat > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com - -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:31:52 +0300 From: jp Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Questions > > WEll, just picked up MOA and I have a few questions. > > > > > Further-- can anyone tell me how much was lost when this > 2LP set was > > transferred to CD? I hear that most of the middle parts were > cut out-- > IE, > > Joni talking and such. There's a few spots on this disc > where the editing > > is SLOPPY-- so I just wonder. > > Hi Eric > > Well, I would buy the HDCD version of the CD as previously I > have owned the > first CD release and that cut a lot of the talking and the > audience (More > class than Richard Nixon, Gomer Pyle etc etc). The HDCD also > comes in 2 > versions: American and Canadian. I can't remember which is > which but one has > the original Joni writing 'Joni Mitchell, Miles Of Aisles' like > the original > record sleeve. The other version was how (I guess( Joni wanted > it, with > proper typeface replacing her rendering and the painting and > the photograph > are merged seamlessly. I have the first version and I think > it's American > but I can't be sure. > > When I first heard the new versions ( and you can tell that > there is more > music to it because the new versions have the track times and > the whole > thing is longer) I was struck by the LA Express 'This time it's > our pleasure > to introduce: MISS JONI MITCHELL!!!!!. On my old CD it just > starts with > YTMOIAR. I got a German-made HDCD just recently and it looks like it's one of those fakes that aren't HDCD at all. There's a sticker latched on the front that says it's HDCD "mastered from the original master tapes", but otherwise it's just like the regular CD, no HDCD logos anywhere. Artwork is the kind of leaflet that came with the earlier CD, not 'repackaged by Robbie Cavolina' at all. The CD is about 74 minutes long - 3 & a half minutes shorter than the original material. Everything seems fine at first, there is the introduction at the beginning, but towards the end, all the talking between tracks is cut off. The songs barely echo out before the next one already begins. Those butchers! - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:28:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: what are the professions of JM listers(A poll) NJC House queen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:25:31 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC ps. I pick up accents very easily. After my twwo week road trip in the US and Can people back here thought I sounded American. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 19:36:24 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC > The thing I > don't understand is why you Brits call these schools > "public" schools - over here in Canada, a "public" > school is one that is paid for by "public" (i.e., > taxpayers') money. The ones people pay $10,000 or > more a year for (excluding board) are called "private" > schools. I have no idea why our fee paying schools are called public. > Is it the same reason why you drive on the > wrong side of the road? ;) No. The reason we drive on the correct side of the road is because our steering wheels are on the correct side of the car! The trouble I came across when drivving in the uS and Can: getting back into my car on the passenger side and wondering what was wrong! And getting beeped at traffic lights when the lights were red. Made my heart pound. After a while I realised if one is turning right, one can go. The only WARNING I got before my trip was to NOT get out of my car if stopped by police or I might get shot. Here we get out of our cars. > > > ===== > Catherine (in Toronto) > catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:11:54 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Men have no soul only egos. How could we forget Steve Forbert? He has such surrender & longing in his voice. Don't you love him? Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Les > Irvin > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 12:05 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. > > > At 09:03 AM 8/1/2000, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he > doesn't sing > >from his heart and soul? > > Or how about David Wilcox, Michael Johnson, Chris Isaac, Van Morrison, > Loudon Wainwright III, and David Lee Roth? (Just kidding on the last one > there folks...) > Les > > NP: Kentucky Colonels "Billy in the Lowground" > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:31:43 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] Marilyn and colin wrote: > > There was one other woman who I > > believe was a paralegal. > > I think this is our Kakki. Bev Wolfe, who is quiet here lately, is also a paralegal (Hi Bev) and Lindsay Moon is a court reporter. And I would guess from Erin's concise posts on Napster that there is some kind of legal bent in her background, too. Maybe I shouldn't be "outing" all the legal eagles and beagles out there, but I don't want to feel all alone ;-D O.K. who else? Stand and be counted! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:45:43 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Shiny Toys! > Joniphiles - > I'm pleased to announce that Ken Slarty has accepted my invitation to house > his collection of Joni icons, cursors, screen savers, and midi files on the > JMDL site. He has dubiously dubbed it the "Shiny Toys" section. I am excited to say that I downloaded the Joni screensavers and have been enjoying my private Joni art show on my computer screen. Thanks Ken this is delightful! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:00:31 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Shiny Toys! And I have been playing Joni Mah-Jong for two days straight. Lots of fun! Reuben >>> "M & C Urbanski" 08/01/00 03:45PM >>> > Joniphiles - > I'm pleased to announce that Ken Slarty has accepted my invitation to house > his collection of Joni icons, cursors, screen savers, and midi files on the > JMDL site. He has dubiously dubbed it the "Shiny Toys" section. I am excited to say that I downloaded the Joni screensavers and have been enjoying my private Joni art show on my computer screen. Thanks Ken this is delightful! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:15:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC - --- catman wrote: > > > > and had *no* accent that I could discern, > > I don't have an accent. To you and the Americans, I > sound like i have an > English accent but I don't have an english accent of > the type that would > indicate where in the UK I come from. This is > because I l;ived abroad > most of my life till 17yrs old. I once had a braod > Aussie accent from > lving there for 5 years. Now I have a nothing > accent. > No you don't - *I* have a nothing accent! So there! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:20:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC - --- catman wrote: > ps. I pick up accents very easily. After my twwo > week road trip in the > US and Can people back here thought I sounded > American. > That happens to all of us. I came back from a high school trip to Washington DC with a bit of a drawl and saying "y'all" a lot - that passed quickly. My brother moved to Northern Ontario, and then to Alberta quite a while ago and has what I call a "hoser" accent - - they have more of a lilt than us urbanites down in southern Ontario. My mother-in-law used to get pissed off when people asked her what she was (i.e., nationality) or what kind of accent she had. She would respond that she was Canadian (which she was, by citizenship.) She had an odd accent that was part German and part Italian, because she was from Italy, but married a German and learned German before she learned English. So she would refer to her husband as "mein 'usband" for example. Oh, and a little bit of Yiddish would get thrown in from time-to-time, since my pa-in-law was also Jewish and spoke at least some Yiddish. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:23:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: twilight zone NJC - --- catman wrote: > The trouble I came across when drivving in the uS > and Can: getting back > into my car on the passenger side and wondering what > was wrong! And > getting beeped at traffic lights when the lights > were red. Made my heart > pound. After a while I realised if one is turning > right, one can go. This may not be true everywhere in Canada and the US but I know that in Ontario, you can turn right on a red light (but you have to yield to pedestrians and so on, of course!) > The only WARNING I got before my trip was to NOT get > out of my car if > stopped by police or I might get shot. Here we get > out of our cars. Yikes! Here, we get out of our cars too, but usually only if the officer asks us to. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:37:31 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: Subway magic (NJC) Somehow continuing the "Freedom scribbled in the subway" thread is another moment of wonder I just had riding the west side IRT downtown between meetings, and right after I posted my reminiscences of the 70s subways. An a cappella do wop group entered the car I was riding in and performed a flawless three part version of The Dells' 1958 classic, "Oh What A Night." In thanking the riders for their attention, the three men cheerfully bade us farewell saying, "And don't forget to smile...IT WILL NOT MESS UP YOUR HAIR." CC "On the first day of spring, we'll dance and sing and be the only joy in town." -- JM ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lawyer downloading [NJC] - --- Kakki wrote: > Maybe I shouldn't be "outing" all the legal eagles > and beagles out there, > but I don't want to feel all alone ;-D > > O.K. who else? Stand and be counted! ;-) > Oh, go ahead - who wants to be the only one doing what they do, especially given Joni's often disparaging remarks about the legal profession! I hate to talk about what I do in my *real* job. It's too frightening to contemplate! Or maybe just too boring. I've always been in a pretty customer-service type of job which is unusual because, unlike the average Miss Universe contendah, I really don't like people at all ;) Right now, I'm a manager in the bureaucracy, which is almost as much fun as it sounds. I manage a team of writers who pretend to be a cabinet minister, composing letters to real people who write to the government with their queries, problems and comments. This involves the lively art of attempting desperately to act as intermediary between Big Ego (politicians and those who bask in their reflected glory) and regular shmoes (the Workers of the World, who wannabe *real* writers - in fact, some of them are damn fine writers, which means their talents go to waste here!) Oh yeah, I also get to deal with countless other bureaucrats, and, oh yes, the taxpayers too, of course. We mustn't forget them. Before that, I ran a call centre (government too) providing information to Joe Public about you-name-it. Now that was fun, let me tell you. You learn something new every day in that job. None of which has anything to do with what I did in university, which was studying French language and literature, apart from the odd time I get to deal with a French-speaking customer at which point these days, I'm liable to say something like, "Est-ce que vous pouvez repeter ca plus lentement s'il vous plait? Je ne comprends pas." I like to think of myself as a late bloomer. Damn late, in fact, since I'm in the autumn of my life (I guess). ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #427 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?