From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #404 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 19 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 404 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- now that's plain silly - NJC [Kate ] stain imagery [Erin Stoy ] quick review on Wild things run fast ["James Phillips" ] gay recruits (NJC) ["kerry" ] Michael from Mountains ["James Phillips" ] Support your local listmember/songwriter and JM.COM! [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni's Viewpoints [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: NJC: Single Gender Marriage [Catherine McKay ] Re: Correcting Past WrongsNJC [catman ] NJC please [catman ] Joni in Special People Magazine!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Correcting Past Wrongs [Catherine McKay ] TNT tribute cd [dsk ] Re: Decorating Tips ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Jonis world view (kinda long?) - now [Lori Reason ] Re:joni screensavers njc ["joe farrell" ] Re: Number Two [PPeterson4@aol.com] Brecker/Metheny/Goldings/Stewart at Montreux [Lori Reason ] Re: Number Two [catman ] Re: Number Two [Phyliss Ward ] i've been gone NJC ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Number Two [Marksa973@aol.com] Re: Number Two [catman ] Re: i've been gone NJC [catman ] Re: Number Two (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] jim's questions njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: i've been gone NJC ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: i've been gone NJC [catman ] NJC Today NJC (and boring too) [Vince Lavieri ] RE: Video Notice ["patrick leader" ] Re: i've been gone NJC ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Number Two [PPeterson4@aol.com] obscure cover [Deb Messling ] Re: Number Two [Deb Messling ] Re: Correcting Past Wrongs (NJC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: Number Two (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:26:03 -0600 From: Kate Subject: now that's plain silly - NJC Paul: "Frankly, my dear, if you're a feminist, you are also a sexist." Can't agree with you there unless I totally disregard the dictionary's definition of the word "feminist." What you said would be correct if a feminist was someone who favoured women's rights above those of men; that is not what a feminist is. It's tricky though, I can certainly see that. I remember telling my employer that I thought he was a feminist, and how he really bucked at that because he thought it meant he was someone who thought men were shitheads! (that's when I went to the dictionary) Kate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: stain imagery David wrote an interesting post about stain imagery in Joni's work. It is also found in "Court and Spark": "They've all seen the stain on their daily bread, on their Christian name..." Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:07:26 GMT From: "James Phillips" Subject: quick review on Wild things run fast Dear list, I've been lurking in the shadows between songwriting and job interviews for the last few weeks and have been reading things that have been of interest. I finally listened to Wild things run fast, and it is a good album IMHO. I especially loved Moon at the Window and Be cool. To me, the album holds up just like how Blue has held up all these years. The song sequence is really well balanced IMHO as well. Anyways, this is part 1 of the deluge of posts from me to-day, James Phillips Now playing the Magazine by Rickie Lee Jones ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:10:46 GMT From: "James Phillips" Subject: D minor tuning NJC I have a question for any of our guitarists that is familour with open tunings. I had tuned one of the guitars to DADFAD (open D minor tuning) and like the lush sound of the tuning. Unfortunately, I know absolutely zero chords shapes to use in that tuning besides barring chords. I'd also like to know some major chord shapes as well. If anyone can help, I'd really apppreciate it, as the tuning is being used for a song I've written. James ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:17:49 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: gay recruits (NJC) catman wrote: >Not only that, but we put a great deal of effort into corrupting and recruiting minors.>> AND, we get a toaster oven for every straight person we recruit. ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:13:57 GMT From: "James Phillips" Subject: Michael from Mountains Okay, the 3rd and final post from me to-day (thank Gawd some of you are saying:) ) Does anyone know whom Michael from Mountains was written about? If this question has been asked and answered in the past, I'm sorry to ask it again, but I would like the know a bit more. James ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:17:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Support your local listmember/songwriter and JM.COM! This is, I suppose, a semi-shameless plug -- so let me put out an apology in advance. Nonetheless, my album of original songs -- "Closer Now" -- is available at www.mp3.com ... For every copy purchased by members of the jmdl -- I'll donate 50% of my take ($2/sale) to Jim at jonimitchell.com ... here's what to do: Click over to: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/38/don_rowe.html Once you purchase a copy of the album, you'll receive a confirmation order # e-mail from mp3.com. Forward that message to me at: dgrowe227@yahoo.com I'll then keep a record of your order, and send Jim a check. Thank you all so much. Someone once said, "We all want to be naked and famous". Right now, I feel only naked! ;-D Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:24:12 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Correcting Past Wrongs NFL To Address Underrepresentation of Women Players Dateline : New York The National Football League today announced that after polling its owners and finding overwhelming support for the plan that it would embarc on an unprecendented plan to equalize the heretofore discrimination against women. Commissioner Paul Tagliabue's statement: Prior to the implementation of this plan the NFL had always been populated exclusively by male athletes. I want to go on record that this was not because men were better athletes it was because the average salary in the NFL is just under 2.73 million dollars per player. This inequity is disgusting and we all know it. We all know that the only reason they have been granted these jobs as players in the NFL is because they are men and our society has unfortunately only used gender to select any and all of its job beneficiaries.. The tallents needed to compete in the NFL are running, jumping, throwing, and showering, with a little bit of swearing. We all know that women can do all these things and more. For instance we have never addressed the interior decorating factor in our locker rooms and the use of loofas and scented soap in the showers. Women can play this game and we all know it has only been discrimination that has kept them off our playing fields in the NFL. If they can throw lamps in the White House they can throw footballs in our stadiums. If they can elbow and scratch at deep discount sales in the nations retail outlets the day after Thanksgiving they can fight for yardage on our fields of valor. Therefore we are going to establish an affirmative program to incorporate women onto each and every team in the NFL for the upcoming season. We have constructed our program to accomodate the discriminatory factors given them by nature in their somewhat smaller bodies. For instance we normally have Offensive Tackles in the 325 to 350 pound weight class. We are hereby declaring that Offensive Tackles can now be no more than 125 pounds so that this discrimination shall end. Women will in the future protect the backside of the quarterback on the field as well as in the courtroom. Wide receivers are normally very fast and frequently run the 40 yaerd dash in under 4.5 seconds. This discriminated against women who can not run that fast so we have ruled that wide receivers will not be allowed to run the 40 in less than 5.5 seconds. By doing this we have created a new inequality because those defensive players who will going up against the offensive tackles and wide receivers will now be much bigger and stronger and faster than their opponents so we had to create new rules which require that the defensive ends and the cornerbacks now be smaller and slower. All offensive plays will have to be run only at the men to protect the female defensive players from the highly negative violent tendencies of the awful men who will remain in the league. Former Seantor Patricia Schroeder will oversee this aspect of our rules committee. The bigger faster and stronger men who used to have these jobs will just have to get other jobs in the name of progress. While opening up new jobs for women at the four positions mentioned it will create a new inequity by making the Guards on the offensive line bigger and faster than the defensive ends so we are outlawing the blocking of the defensive end by the guards and center which are the positions that the men can compete for. In turn we are no longer allowing men to play the outside linebacker positon because they would be able to physically overpower the offensive tackles. Blitzing and in particular swearing while blitzing will now be prohibited in the new NFL. This brings us to the running backs and quarterback positons. Everyone knows these are the highest paid positions in the NFL. As such they have been only given to men just because they are men. We all know Joe Montana, Dan Marino and John Elway couldnt throw any better than Whoopie Goldberg and Gloria Steinem and Donna Shalala so for the next 25 years only women will be allowed to play the Quarterback position to make up for all these years of discrimination. We in the NFL know that what appeared to be those line drive bullet passes of 75 yards or more that Elway threw were really possible only by the cruel hoax of male chauvanistic mysoginist special effects photographers who have been relieved of their positons with ABC and CBS so now the fans can rest assurred that those 30 yard wounded duck looping forward passes that will be throwen by the new generation of women quarterbacks will be just as damn good as those phoney Elway and Marino passes they have seen on TV. Running back positons will be granted only to women to equalize the amount of money paid formerly only to men who were running backs. The tackling of these new female running backs will only be allowed when done by the female defensive players. Women have been physically bused long enough by men and this historic reality will end in the NFL by this pronouncement. No klore tackling of the running backs will be tolerated. This will open up the game and make it more exciting for everyone. Young girls seeing their sisters spike the ball and do the cabbage patch smurf dance in the Superbowl will be inspired to achieve greater heights in life and in their careers. Its working in our armned services now so it can work here. We have also ruled that the defensive backs MUST allow the passes to be cought to protect the new quarterbacks from a loss of self esteem inherent in failure. Once the passes are cought tackling of them will be prohibited so that the receivers must be allowed to score on every other completion so that the statistical data compiled by the women quarterbacks throughout the year will achieve our statistical objectives under our affirmative program to correct a generation of inequities in awarding these lucrative jobs as players to only men. Lastly there is the final frontier of coaching. We all know that coaches dont necessarily have to know anything except how to cuss out officials. Our recent study of married officials determined that their wives and girlfirends in some cases were actually superior to any coach in the league at harranguing them. We even found that in many cases new interpretations of long-used expletives were ascertained to be effective in getting the officials to change their mind which is precisely what the coach is trying to do. For instance one official was told by his wife that if he didnt do this or that he would be "sleeping with the dogs". He changed his mind. SO we are ruling that no less than one half of all the coaching jobs in the NFL will immediately be awarded to women coaches. Lastly I have one final announcement to make. Even though I have been running this league for 15 years and prior to that I was a foremost labor attorney and expert negotiator it has been made clear to me that only my sex was responsible for me getting this job in the first place. There had to be at least a million or so women who were more qualified than I. In fact no woman was even considered can you imagine that. Therefore I have decided to resign my positon and award my job to someone who has the best characteristics of both sexes to act as your commissioner. She is politically brilliant but tough as nails. This person is not only a sharp legal mind but was very persuasive in convincing me that if I didnt do this my personal FBI file and IRS returns would somehow find their way into the mainstream press. I know that for the last eight years or so much progress has been achieved in righting the historic wrongs of so long under the leadership of this person and so I want to introduce your new NFL Commissioner Ms.Janet Reno. I will now take your questions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:17:30 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: feminism Yes this makes sense to me Mags. As I said, I have come to embrace the word feminism more over the years but I still would rather not be defined by any one word, whether it was political, religious, etc etc. Who I am & what I believe is important consists of such a wide range of concepts. So if someone were to ask me if I was a feminist, to answer honestly, I would have to engage them in a discussion of the issues and not just give a yes or no answer and assume we all agreed on what it meant. It would take longer, be more complex, but it would be more truthful for me. All I can speak for is me. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic…the album grows more intriguing with repeated listening" All Music Guide "lyrically, it's a work of art overall" Indie-Music.com ******************************************** - -----Original Message----- From: pat holden [mailto:pholden@iprimus.ca] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 12:58 AM To: Kate Bennett; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: feminism Kate Bennett wrote: > Emmy I don't think that Joni said anything about being anti feminist at all. > Kakki spoke elequently about why someone might not want to be labeled. It is > not about the ideas, its about the label. > > Emmy wrote: That's my belief anyway and although I admire Joni beyond > description I > cannot figure the anti-feminist side of her out and Mags, smitten with insomnia wrote: I still feel that you can live into whatever your definition of feminism is and be strong and sure of your convictions without the need or want of fitting into the box of a definition created by someone else. hopefully, this makes sense. - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:33:34 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Viewpoints In a message dated 7/19/00 11:14:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > But there is an "other." It's called humanism, the basis of which is written > in the Declaration of Independence, which I would modernize to say that "all > humans are created equal." Frankly, my dear, if you're a feminist, you are > also a sexist. That's like saying if you support an independent Isreal you are a zionist. Jerry >> If you support an independent Israel that is governed by Jews even though half the population are Arabs, then are you not? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:38:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC: Single Gender Marriage - --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Uhhh... Please excuse my naive questions but here > goes: > The stereotype that I'm familiar with is that many > gays don't have life-long > relationships. Is this true? And if it's true, > where does the enthusiasm > for gay marriage come from? > Ironically, most of the gays I know (that is, that I know well) ARE in long-term relationships (marriages, in other words, whether or not these are blessed by church or state, or relatives or the next door neighbours, or anyone else for that matter). > Next, I have never heard a straight couple say "We > are getting married so > (s)he can have medical coverage." Yet this seems to > be the central argument > in favor of gay marriage though. Is this true? > What am I missing or > misunderstanding? > Why does anyone get married? Why is there something called "marriage" at all, and what's so special about getting some piece of paper from the city hall? I think about this one a lot (believe it or not). I got married. In a church and legally after living together for a couple of years. Why? Was it for my parents? Was it because I felt guilty "living in sin"? I have NO IDEA! Was it to make it a commitment - but do you need a piece of paper for that? The whole concept of marriage, as a legal institution, or as something "blessed" is really quite strange. The legal stuff makes sense because we're all hung up on what is or is not allowed by law. So, we could deal with that by making wills (unless we're too scared to admit that we're gonna die one day) to say who gets what when we croak. I don't know anyone who got married *just* to get health coverage, but then, you do have those cases of people getting married *just* to be legally allowed into the country (whichever one it might be). It'd be nice to think there was a commitment of some kind involved (!) but why this needs anyone's blessing but your own is a bit of a mystery to me - the only reason (logical reason, that is) I can come up with is, it's a form of insurance. We're betting it will go wrong and so we cover ourselves for that event. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:44:49 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Correcting Past Wrongs In a message dated 7/19/00 1:34:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << I know that for the last eight years or so much progress has been achieved in righting the historic wrongs of so long under the leadership of this person and so I want to introduce your new NFL Commissioner Ms.Janet Reno. I will now take your questions. >> Welcome to the monkey house! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:49:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Single Gender Marriage - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > I would like to point out that Jim is > asking these questions > quite honestly and I believe would honestly like to > be enlightened > about them. Let's not rip him to shreds for being > honest. ... > I would rather people ask legitimate questions than > keep their > misconceptions clutched tightly to their psyches, > afraid to let go of > them. If they ask, they can be informed. So let's > inform, not bash. > Mark, you have such a balanced view of things! God - if there is a God ;)- love ya! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:58:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Correcting Past WrongsNJC Nice to see a real man really gets it. and i mean that most sincerely. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:01:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC please It has been rather good to have such simulating discussion without the nastiness sometimes associted. however, i fear we will seriously piss off the Only Joni's if we aren't more careful with the NJC tag. The last three posts, one really long, were NJC but not marked as such. We have all been guilty of this, i know I have. However, just so it remains abuse free, please try to remember it. bw colin - -- Why isn't phonetic spelled the way it sounds? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:58:34 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Joni in Special People Magazine!! In the Special Collector's Edition of People Magazine, People Celebrates the 80's, there are 2 pictures of Joni. Page 15, under soulful solists, and again on page 64 at the No Nukes Concert. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:09:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Correcting Past Wrongs - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > NFL To Address Underrepresentation of Women Players > Dateline : New York > > The National Football League today announced that > after polling its owners > and finding overwhelming support for the plan that > it would embarc on an > unprecendented plan to equalize the heretofore > discrimination against women. Laugh though you may, if a woman can play well enough, then go for it! One of my nieces is one of two girls (aged 14) on an otherwise all-boy hockey team. She's good. She has played on all-star teams representing her province (Alberta) in Canada-wide competitions. The ability to play the game (whatever it may be) and to be good enough to make the team is all that counts. P.S. I hate sports. They could ONLY have been invented by macho men out to show off to women and other men who's got a bigger dick (pardonnez-moi mon anglais). For cripes sake, the damn ball (in North American football) isn't even round!) I also wonder about all that tackling stuff - I figure it's probably just an excuse for guys to cop a feel off each other and still be a *real man*. ;) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:37:08 -0400 From: dsk Subject: TNT tribute cd This cd from Steve Polifka is great! I had no idea it would be like this. I'm blown away by it! The bit of money I sent to cover the cost of the blank cd and postage doesn't begin to cover the time and expertise that have obviously gone into creating this. It's a very generous gift, this sharing of the music, and a wonderful tribute to Joni in its own right. These things really impress me about it: The sound is so clear, like a regular cd, I can hear each twang of Richard Thompon's guitar on Woodstock (still makes me swoon) and each piano key that Diana Krall and Elton John press, and Joni sounds great! It's as though she's right here. And the editing is very cleanly done, with no abruptness anywhere. It's mostly music, but I like that there's enough of the talk left in to give the feel of the show. And as if that wasn't enough, the cd booklet and cover with color photos from the broadcast are beautiful, very well designed. All very lovingly put together. Great job on this Steve! Thank you so much for creating this and sending it along to me. Listening to it again -- wow. Looking again at the cd cover -- wow. Thank you. It's a treasure. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:57:57 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Decorating Tips Yes, Catherine, in my experience you can't go wrong with beige carpet, off-white walls, and (this part is crucial) a beige vertical blind for the sliding door. :) (It disappears into the wall when closed.) :) Furthermore, I'll share my other decorating tips for settling a living room with my fellow JMDLers. You folks may not have been properly enlightened. :) The key to settling the living room is to make the position of the stereo speakers the first priority. I moved the speakers every 6 months or so for the first 4 or 5 years in my last apartment. The only way to a Fabulous result is to get the stereo sounding great first. :) Of course, you can't leave the windows uncovered for 4 or 5 years. You'll have to put SOMETHING up. Just buy earth tones, as Catherine so wisely pointed out. Don't get distracted from positioning those speakers! :) Next time, we'll talk about how standing up a bed mattress in your living room will cut standing waves. :) Jim wrote: > > Do you REALLY want decorating tips from a > > computer technician ?? :) > Catherine (in Toronto) has her way with me: > Let me guess Jim - earth tones, right? Beige, beige, beige.... ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 00 21:58:59 MET DST From: Lori Reason Subject: Re: Jonis world view (kinda long?) - now Catherine said: > But the problem > is, in many of these countries, there is so much > poverty that, if they didn't send the kids out to > work, they'd starve. They can't send the kids to > school because they need to get food on the table. > In many households, ... the servants are treated > like ... (family) poor relations). ************************************ The ILO - International Labour Office - headquartered here in Geneva just held a conference with the focus to stop child slave labor. But as you so rightly point out if the kids don't earn some money their family suffers. The ILO is working on one end of the problem, as is their mandate. So often there is a lack of coordinated effort which comes from the Member States themselves. How do you convince a government to increase it's minimum wage (if one exists) when they are being dictated to by a military regime? The UN passes a resolution, then boycotts the offending country - in principle. I wish someone would think of a better way. The purpose of these kids not getting an education is that they will not rise in society - and the present regime will maintain power. So effective. > And you can't legislate this kind of thing > without making plans for how to deal with what comes > after all the slaves are free. Maybe my view is way too Utopian, but in a healthy society where housekeepers weren't looked down upon, but respected for their part in the culture - as a person from whom you benefit because they free you up to do what you prefer to do and make your life less stressful - who would be a slave? Would I chose to go to work and leave my kids (if I had any) with someone who got to stay at home and be with them all day? Nope. I'd rather do something at home until they were in school. It's about choices. We have them, and developing countries (so named by the fact that they are *not* developing) don't. I saw what Cesar Chavez did in California for the migrant workers - boycotting works. Yes, the people suffer for a while - sometimes a long while - but they would have suffered indefinitely without a boycott. Yes, the US was delusional in thinking that people in Iraq and Yugoslavia could rise up and oust their "evil" leaders. What our gov't didn't (doesn't) realize is they cannot - not with the military in power. People living in these regimes have gotten used to being repressed and afraid. Also, as they haven't grown up in our culture they don't think like we do. Why are we (the US Gov't) so surprised by this? Aren't our Ambassadors trained in cultural sensitivity? Iraq and Yugoslavia do not have the same kind of gov't as So. Africa did. The boycott in So. Africa was effective - it brought the De Klerk regime around *and* there happened to be a person who had the will to bring the change, *and* Mandela had the support of the people. In Iraq you would get shot just thinking about it. If Hussein cared so much about his people he would provide them with the medicine and food they need instead of re-stocking his military. Do not be fooled like Kofi Annan was. In India Gandhi's hunger strike worked because he was such a charismatic person, but it did not work when he was in Africa because he was a foreigner there. > Broken noses alter faces > Situations alter cases. > > I have no idea where that quote came from, but I love it.> It's a great one. Another favorite of mine is: "If we all live by an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, we'll all end up blind and toothless." Lori (I hope this makes sense.) ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 00 22:13:36 MET DST From: Lori Reason Subject: Re: [Support your local listmember/songwriter and JM.COM!] Has everyone noticed that Les added a spot on jmdl called jmdl Artists? You can post this info there permanently. Lori Don Rowe wrote: > This is, I suppose, a semi-shameless plug -- so let me > put out an apology in advance. Nonetheless, my album > of original songs -- "Closer Now" -- is available at > www.mp3.com ... > > For every copy purchased by members of the jmdl -- > I'll donate 50% of my take ($2/sale) to Jim at > jonimitchell.com ... here's what to do: > > Click over to: > > http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/38/don_rowe.html > > Once you purchase a copy of the album, you'll receive > a confirmation order # e-mail from mp3.com. Forward > that message to me at: > > dgrowe227@yahoo.com > > I'll then keep a record of your order, and send Jim a > check. Thank you all so much. Someone once said, "We > all want to be naked and famous". Right now, I feel > only naked! ;-D > > Don Rowe > > > > ===== > "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." > > -- Shelby Foote > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:33:13 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Special People Magazine!! Correction In a message dated 7/19/00 2:11:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: << In the Special Collector's Edition of People Magazine, People Celebrates the 80's, there are 2 pictures of Joni. Page 15, under soulful solists, and again on page 64 at the No Nukes Concert. >> Whoops! It's People Celebrates the 70's!!! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:44:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni in Special People Magazine!! Correction > << In the Special Collector's Edition of People > Magazine, People Celebrates > the > 80's, there are 2 pictures of Joni. Page 15, under > soulful solists, and > again > on page 64 at the No Nukes Concert. >> > > Whoops! It's People Celebrates the 70's!!! > Just when I thought Joni's catalog from the 80s was going to get some long-overdue attention! ;-D Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:45:07 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Number Two Okay, no scatological humor, please! In an effort to "lighten" things up, how about 2 new subjects?: 1. While we were enjoying our time in Saskatoon, Brian (a native "Saskatooner") asked us who our #2 artist is, following of course, Joan at #1. Ironically, I can't name one person, but was wondering if anyone else would like to share their #2 artist. I have a long list of people, but no one I can list as a definite. 2. Has anyone seen the movie, "Chicken Run?" Chickens and British humour, what could be better? Kerry "The earth is my body, my head is in the stars." - "Harold & Maude" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:09:00 +0100 From: "joe farrell" Subject: Re:joni screensavers njc Hi, Can anyone out there help please? Some weeks ago someone posted the address of a website which contained some of Joni's artwork which could be downloaded as a screensaver. I downloaded them and was really pleased with them. I have just changed my computer system and have lost the screensavers,no i didn't make a note of the website address, anyone have the address please? I would love to recover these screensavers. Any help much appreciated. Thanks, Joe. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:31:23 EDT From: PPeterson4@aol.com Subject: Re: Number Two My nominee for Number Two: Kate Bush ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 00 00:34:30 MET DST From: Lori Reason Subject: Brecker/Metheny/Goldings/Stewart at Montreux Hey again - I'm on a roll! They are hosting a workshop Friday morning. The format is they talk about the band, their musical influences, play a bit of music and at the end ask the audience (only about 500 people) if they have any questions. So - if you've got anything you've *got* to know (besides will they ever play with Joni again ;-) - send it to me and I'll see what I can do. I'll try to remember to take the camera this time - forgot it last week when BB King was standing 4 feet in front of me. If I get some good pics I'll let you know. Lori ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:09:04 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Number Two My vote for Number Two: Undoubtedly - Laura Nyro!!! Gary (protea man) kerry wrote: > > Okay, no scatological humor, please! > In an effort to "lighten" things up, how about 2 new subjects?: > > 1. While we were enjoying our time in Saskatoon, Brian (a native > "Saskatooner") asked us who our #2 artist is, following of course, Joan at > #1. Ironically, I can't name one person, but was wondering if anyone else > would like to share their #2 artist. I have a long list of people, but no > one I can list as a definite. > > 2. Has anyone seen the movie, "Chicken Run?" Chickens and British humour, > what could be better? > > Kerry > > "The earth is my body, my head is in the stars." - "Harold & Maude" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 00:12:22 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Number Two I gave this a lot of thought. I really searched my soul. Truth is the most important principle. So here is my no 2: Joni Mitchell kerry wrote: > Okay, no scatological humor, please! > In an effort to "lighten" things up, how about 2 new subjects?: > > 1. While we were enjoying our time in Saskatoon, Brian (a native > "Saskatooner") asked us who our #2 artist is, following of course, Joan at > #1. Ironically, I can't name one person, but was wondering if anyone else > would like to share their #2 artist. I have a long list of people, but no > one I can list as a definite. > > 2. Has anyone seen the movie, "Chicken Run?" Chickens and British humour, > what could be better? > > Kerry > > "The earth is my body, my head is in the stars." - "Harold & Maude" - -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:16:42 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Number Two Right now I'd have to say my #2 is Jonatha Brooke. This is despite the fact that she is new to me (only discovered her in the past year) and I only have her 2 solo studio CDs. kerry wrote: > was wondering if anyone else would like to share their #2 artist. -- Phyliss mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:33:42 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: i've been gone NJC lighten things up, huh...? my email server went down and i've missed the last two days. did i miss anything good? alison e. in slc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:23:07 EDT From: Marksa973@aol.com Subject: Re: Number Two Good choice. I love Kate. Actually, my Number Two is Joni. Number One is Linda Ronstadt. She was the first to revive interest in the old standards (a bold move 15 years ago), and I think her 3-CD collaboration with Nelson Riddle is better than BSN. Number Three: Grace Slick. What a wierd threesome! In a message dated 7/19/00 7:07:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PPeterson4@aol.com writes: << My nominee for Number Two: Kate Bush >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 00:45:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Number Two Marksa973@aol.com wrote: > Good choice. I love Kate. > > Actually, my Number Two is Joni. Number One is Linda Ronstadt. She was the > first to revive interest in the old standards (a bold move 15 years ago), if she was the first, it must have been more than 15 years ago as carly's Torch came out in 81. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 00:52:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: i've been gone NJC You missed some really good discussion on whether or not Joni is racist, homophobic, anti feminist. AND discussion on humanists, feminism, racism, the church, civil rights for gays, civil rights for unmarried hets, the expense of being str8 and married and how women would make much better footballers. See what happens when you go away? Alison Einerson wrote: > lighten things up, huh...? > my email server went down and i've missed the last two days. > did i miss anything good? > > alison e. in slc - -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:01:46 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Number Two (md) Actually I rate them as who I would like to see in a small club then who I would like to see in a large venue then who I like on record. I would rate them on that basis as follows: small club: 1) Ry Cooder 2) Van Morrison Large Venue 1) The Who/Peter Townshend 2) Peter Gabriel 3) Pink Floyd On Record 1) Joni Mitchell 2) Emmylou Harris When Im completely S-faced 1) Brittany Spears......Im kidding. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:05:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: jim's questions njc > Jim wrote: > > >Uhhh... Please excuse my naive questions but here goes: > >The stereotype that I'm familiar with is that many gays don't have > life-long > >relationships. Is this true? And if it's true, where does the enthusiasm > >for gay marriage come from? but you said it yourself: it's a stereotype! > >Next, I have never heard a straight couple say "We are getting married so > >(s)he can have medical coverage." Yet this seems to be the central > argument > >in favor of gay marriage though. Is this true? What am I missing or > >misunderstanding? jim, we already have the love and the companionship. now we want the rights! wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:17:59 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: i've been gone NJC well, then. let me chime in: feminism: good. racism: bad civil rights for gays: bad (look at how uppity colin is already! what do you THINK would happen? huge feather boas for everyone! national anthem replaced by gloria gaynor's "i will survive"...) civil rights for unmarried hets: no way! we're not married! isn't that bonus enough? the church: that means morman, right? i'm from utah. how women would make much better footballers: what the hell?????? never a dull moment on jmdl... ;-) alison e. in slc. np: jonatha brooke, live (i'm right there with ya phyliss, she's great. you should get the story albums, too) - ---------- >From: catman >You missed some really good discussion on whether or not Joni is >racist, homophobic, anti feminist. AND discussion on humanists, >feminism, racism, the church, civil rights for gays, civil rights for >unmarried hets, the expense of being str8 and married and how women >would make much better footballers. >See what happens when you go away? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:25:40 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: i've been gone NJC > > > civil rights for gays: bad (look at how uppity colin is already! what do you > THINK would happen? > huge feather boas for everyone! national anthem replaced by gloria gaynor's > "i will survive"...) > sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me so no feather boas and as for Gaynor-she's a homophobe, didn't you know? I wouldn't have a national anthem-don't believe in all that nationalism crap. I'd settle for being boss-as long as I had all the money sex and food(without getting fat or sick)I wanted, i'd let the rest do as they pleased as long as it didn't displease me. And Alsion, i'd make you the head of househoild chores, since you are a woman and bound(tho not too tightly) to be good at such things. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:35:48 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Today NJC (and boring too) Today... I received the most wonderful package in the mail from Penny! WOW! Wow! Laura and Jody, I may have two tickets for the first Saturday in August (the 5th) at Comiskey, night game (6:05) against Oakland... I emphasize the "may" - but if I do, you'll want to see me at the park... Penny sent me something for each of you! Should that night not work out, we'll figure something else out, ok? Today... the White Sox are 25 games over 500... best record in baseball continues... Today... I got an email from Michael Joplin, brother of Janis, about the play "Love, Janis" which you may recall I saw last November.... I got an email from Janis' brother! I got an email from Janis' brother! I got an email from Janis' brother! He liked what I said about the play and added that I was indeed right on something I had said on the Janis list... Today... I have been informed that I have a ticket for the Michigan game at Illinois this September... Go Blue! Today... I got an email from Janis' brother! Today... is the day after I spoke at two separate candidate forums in our county where, since I have not a damn thing to do with my time, I am running for county clerk... and I did a good job at both forums since I took Joni's political advice: I was like the penultimate speaker at both events and Joni says, "leave 'em laughing when you go" so instead of a bunch of political bs I did a little thing about being positive and made a few kinda funny comments that were hysterically humorous in an evening otherwise devoid of humor... Today... my daughter in law called to say I get to have the grandson overnight on Friday! She thinks she is imposing on me! Today... the White Sox want me to apply to be a "team leader" on their site... Today... I received the most wonderful package in the mail from Penny! WOW! Wow! Today... has been ok. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:52:37 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Video Notice ashara remembered an offhand comment for me months before the event and picked up a catalog for me. and she STILL hasn't told me how much so she's still fronting for me. ashara, please just hold it until jonifest, it'll be just another joy of the event. but let me know how much i owe you. however, ashara did get the video of the mendel press conference out to me so i'll start transcribing that and we can get it to les/jj without any more work from ashara. i believe there are two of us working on this. patrick, feeling very lucky to know this remarkable woman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:15:17 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: i've been gone NJC catman wrote: >And Alison, i'd make you the head of househoild chores, since you are a woman >and bound(tho not too tightly) to be good at such things. hah! what good is bondage if it's not tight? besides, maybe some bondage is just what i'm looking for to put some zing into the dishwashing??? over the edge, alison e. in slc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:10:19 EDT From: PPeterson4@aol.com Subject: Re: Number Two Laura Nyro Yeah, she's definitely up there in the pantheon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:21:32 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: obscure cover I doubt this was recorded, but I remember an African American woman singing "Raised on Robbery" on some tv variety show. In the verse, "We had a little money once..." she sang something like, "He bought a '57 Biscayne, drove into a fence; he drunk up all the rest; that dude's got no sense." I guess you couldn't say "son of a bitch" on television in those days. Anyone remember this? Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat. / Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:34:54 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Number Two Bruce Cockburn, definitely. He is similar to Joni in his commitment to art over commerce, and his willingness to experiment with different styles. His lyrics are more undisciplined than Joni's, but contain flashes of absolute brilliance. He's a terrific guitar player. He is an avowed Christian, and some of his work may even be borderline annoying to hardcore secularists, but just to show you can't stereotype Christians, he has performed for pro-choice benefits and is an outspoken advocate of gay rights. Cool guy. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat. / Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:03:13 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: Correcting Past Wrongs (NJC) Marcel wrote: <> I would just like to point out a popular misrepresentation of affirmative action found in this post: that it's about "correcting *past* wrongs." Such a distortion, of course, makes it easy to say, "well, we can't be held responsible for what our ancestors did" -- and easy to forget, ignore, or deny that racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimination continue to exist, in the *present*. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:13:29 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Number Two (NJC) In a message dated 7/19/00 5:51:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: << While we were enjoying our time in Saskatoon, Brian (a native "Saskatooner") asked us who our #2 artist is, following of course, Joan at #1. Ironically, I can't name one person, but was wondering if anyone else would like to share their #2 artist. >> Gotta go with Cheryl Wheeler. Rick and Susan, who (whom?) we had dinner with in Vancouver, even drove us by the Sylvia Hotel, the title of her latest CD. She is not well known, but check her out. You won't be sorry. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #404 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?