From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #389 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Thursday, July 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 389 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Musician Artists NJC [john low ] Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians NJC (long) [dsk ] Re: Joni/Carly, Carly/Joni [catman ] Re: Joni/Carly, Carly/Joni [catman ] Re: Remasters [bohodan ] Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians NJC (long) [catman ] Re:Synchronicity, etc. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] CD tree [Steve Polifka ] A cat joke [MDESTE1@aol.com] Kansas City (Altman) NJC ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Musician Artists NJC [Dflahm@aol.com] Beale Street [Merk54@aol.com] Re: cool water [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: CD tree [Mark Domyancich ] Christian artists (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians NJC (long) [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Beale Street [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) [SMEBD@aol.com] addictive!NJC [catman ] Re: Stupid Girl?/Lead Balloon/River [Kenny Grant ] Jazz vs. Blues [Merk54@aol.com] Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Joni litho for sale ["kerry" ] Re: unmasking don juan [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) [michael w yarbrough ] Re: Joni/Carly, Carly/Joni ["Kakki" ] Re: CD tree [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) [jan gyn ] Judy Collins on RoseAnne ["Michael Paz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:38:58 +1000 From: john low Subject: Musician Artists NJC With all the recent Saskatoon excitement, I’ve been thinking again of how many musicians have also expressed themselves through art. I once came across a book about this in a Sydney bookshop but foolishly didn’t buy it and I can’t remember the title. However, I do have a book of Jerry Garcia’s drawings and paintings, but I’m not aware of any other musician/artist publications. Anyone know? Cheers, John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 03:49:26 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians NJC (long) SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > I just don't think she should be > criticized for protesting in the way that she chose to. Stephen, I don't think the discussion is meant to criticize Judy's actions; it's more of a wondering what's the most appropriate way to move an institution that claims to show the love of God to actually do that in a better way than it does now. There will always be a need for such improvement in living the Christian ideals, whether it's each person or the institution made up of those people that needs to grow and improve in integrity. IMO, the simple action to try to force change is to not show up. The much more difficult behavior is to show up, appreciate and take part in what is good there, and criticize clearly and consistently what needs improvement. So I imagine beautiful Judy Collins with the sweet voice standing in front of the crowd that expects only to hear a pretty song, but first she tells them stories that include her personal view of being a Christian, how her church helps her and how it fails her, with the message given that it's failing in its mission for many many people, and she clearly states what she thinks needs to be done for the church to live up to the ideals it expresses. Think of all the discomfort and squirming in the seats that would result. Of course, some people would ignore her or be annoyed or chastise her for being inappropriate (although I have a feeling gently-speaking Judy would win most of them over, and if she doesn't with her words, then she would with her music, and then it's all one big hard-to-resist package). Many others, though, might think "one of us" is speaking out and, because we like her, let's listen to what she's saying. And who knows what the effects of the seed she planted would be. Now this is just my imagination at work. I'm not saying that Judy had to do that (or would even be given enough performance time in which to do that), but by not showing up her protest is not clearly stated. Some people might rationalize her non-appearance as merely a schedule conflict or tiredness and people would never know directly from her what her complaints are. Showing up and doing one's best to live with integrity within an imperfect system gives a very powerful message. The idea of withholding, not showing up, not being part of, not giving, in order to cause change isn't effective in my opinion, even though it might feel good in the short-term. I'm picturing the face of a friend of mine, the music director of the church I go to, and how a few years ago when I asked him about the name of a married couple missing from the donor list in a program I was designing, he softly told me they were not donating that year as a protest against what the bishop said about homosexuals. I was stunned and just stared at him. He started crying. He's intimately involved in the church and living a good loving life, and is gay himself, so what did that couple's protest in the form of withholding actually do? The bishop didn't even know about it and my friend was hurt, in many different ways. It would have been more effective and certainly less hurtful if the couple had gone outward, as in sending letters to the bishop clearly stating their opinions. Maybe the bishop wouldn't read them, and the church moves so slowly there wouldn't be any immediate change, but at least my friend would have been supported and not hurt. Also, as a perception issue, whether Judy's cancelling is seen as an effective protest may have a lot to do with whether the person deciding that is willing to sit in the pew or also doesn't show up in protest. In other words, to make it personal, I take part in a church service on many Sundays, so how would I feel if Judy cancelled as a protest against the way women are treated in the church? What does that say to me who's willing to stay involved partly so I'll have some say in what happens there? If I was someone who had turned my back completely on the church because I could no longer see the beauty as well as all the imperfections, then Judy's style of protest would make more sense to me. I've chosen to stick with it though, even though being part of a church community is a struggle at times. I tell myself that if I don't show up there, I give away my voice and lose my ability to make any changes. The church will never be improved by the people who've left. It's going to be changed by the people that stay and see the goodness and also the failings and care enough to speak up. It's all a personal choice, of course, and also a matter of what the spirit calls each of us to do. I'm not criticizing Judy's choice so much as imagining a more personal, connected, clearly stated and, to my mind, more effective way of bringing about change. Easy to say, hard to do. Another ideal... Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:18:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Stupid Girl?/Lead Balloon/River Hi Kenny, you wrote: > Also, any comment on this recent thread. I was long under >the impression that Lead Balloon was about David Geffen. >There were many threads after the release of TTT, and my >recollection was that the consensus was that Geffen > was the object of Lead Balloon. I remember those discussions - people thought it was most likely to be either Jann Wenner or Geffen. I was aware that Joni has a grudge against both but thought it was Geffen mainly because of the repeated lyric line "it's his town." When Geffen was swiftly rising in wealth, power and influence a few years back, he was written about frequently in local L.A. newspaper and magazine articles. I remember the ubiquitous phrase "it's his town" used in several of them for awhile, usually in the context of how powerful he had become. Also, I wonder about the lyric "I had to ask him for a helping hand" - it seems more likely Joni would be (probably reluctantly) having to ask a favor of Geffen rather than Wenner because Geffen was more directly tied into the actual machinery of the music biz and she'd been on his label. But I trust Stephen's statement on this, too. And maybe in New York they say "it's (Wenner's) town" ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:35:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni/Carly, Carly/Joni Mark or Travis wrote: > > Wasn't there this nasty looking devil doll in this movie? What > Karen Black > > is to Carly Simon, Susan Sarandon is to JM. > > -jan > > Careful what you say about Carly, Jan! There are those of us here who > love & revere her. > I still don't know what the above quote mean and didn't know it could be insulting! I took it to mean that karen looks like Carly and susan like joni but that doesn't fit. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:39:40 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni/Carly, Carly/Joni Well I don't see why that would be controversial. It makes sense. People who interpret the world the same way would get on. Relationships between those that don't see the world the same way are diffiuclt. Kakki wrote: > > > > > James, having also come from a very wealthy > and prominent east coast family, ultimately related better to Carly on some > level. > > Putting on my bullet proof suit now ;-) > > Kakki - -- Is it OK to use the AM radio after noon? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: bohodan Subject: Re: Remasters Thanks Bob, and j yep, it does. (seems to be the case with quite a lot of artists that only the 70's get remastered by the record co.; the reason being I guess isthat those records have 'classic' status by now and tend to be more likely to sell, as opposed to something like 'Chalkmark'. The 1st HDCD I saw here was C+S as you might expect..) Know what you mean :), I've still got boxes full with tapes -even in mono- that I just slap on a little saisho player - just as memorable :) - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < non > AAD) - I keep seeing imports @ record fairs but have > yet to see the remasters I've heard about...>> > > I have seen both HOSL & Hejira in HDCD format. Not > sure if that answers your question as I'm NOT an > audiophile. > > To this day some of the most memorable music I've > heard came out of little cheap speakers in my Dad's > car and my sister's GE "Wildcat" record player! :~) > > Bob > > NP: Sheryl Crow, "We Do What We Can" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:44:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians NJC (long) Maybe Judy's way was effective purely because she is famous and there was publicity about why she cancelled, therfore publicising the issue. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:43:54 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Both Sides Now & The JOHNSTONS Simon wrote: > sorry Philip, > > but this information isn't quite correct. > > The Johnstons LP "GIVE A DAMN" containing "Urge For Going" as well > as "Both Sides Now" (Transatlantic #TRA-184) was recorded between > august and november 1968. > > the Judy Collins LP "WILDFLOWERS" was *released* in november 1967. > > in april 1968 "Dave Van Ronk & The Hudson Dusters" (a self-titled LP) > was released. it contained both "Chelsea Morning" as well as "Clouds" > Dave's title for "Both Sides Now". > Simon, thanks for the great back up information as ever. But I'm sticking with The Johnstons as the first band to record it. If, as you say Van Ronk had a band in tow, then I suppose it's down to whether you consider him a solo artist or not. Sorry I can't help it. I don't give up easy in music trivia contests. :) Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 06:31:06 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) In a message dated 7/12/00 3:57:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: << She took a position and made a statement. To say that to walk away is easy isn't being fair to her. I don't feel that she separated herself from gay men and women. Or at least she didn't separate herself from this gay man. Perhaps she did from others. >> i don't think she separated herself from gay men and women. i think she separated herself from episcopalian men and women, one of which she said in her press release she was. in your earlier post you mentioned that you were a gay man and i refrained from bringing that into the discussion. i would like to say something toward that now that will help demonstrate why i feel comfortable suggesting judy took the easy way out. and again, i will say that i am sure she took the best way she was capable of...but it was not the best way for the larger group. i am not a gay man. i have three children and have been married for 15 or 16 years..i lose count now. i am an episcopalian and am very active in both our parish and diocese. im a licensed homilist and preach regularly. i am also an instructor for one of their seminaries and teach an off campus theology program for lay people. and when i'm feeling comfortable in the parish, i even teach sunday school. when matthew sheppard was killed i spoke openly in our parish. i made two signs and held them up in front of all the conservatives and liberals. one said...god hates fags. the other said....here lies the king of the jews. i explained my image that jesus had come again and just like before,,,we killed him again. and we have not learned yet. to me, the only comforting thing of matthew sheppards death were wicked signs that were put up at his funeral ....becuause the same things were put up over jesus' dead body too. see, that made sense to me, and much of the new testament today still does not. matthew sheppard was killed in the fall of 1998. i remember it...october i think. that day, my wife told me that i had was wrong to address that issue in church and she still questions my moral convictions. the bible after all, says homosexuality is wrong. my children asked me what i had said in church that made so many people upset. and the rector suggested to me that we were not an 'issue church' but a worship church and that i would need to stick to worship...not social political issues...as if the beating death of a young man...a young gay, episcopalian man... was a social political issue. and i'm an episcopalian by convert not by cradle. so i am disappointed that judy collins finds it appropriate to point her finger at the same church and say that she is a cradle episcopalian and she finds fault with their inconsistancies and therefore she can not be one with them at their general convention. to me, she separated herself from the episcopalian men and women and it had nothing to do with anyone's orientation. it had to do with her being willing to point a finger at a problem as opposed to showing up and sharing her experiences and staying with the group, even when they don't understand her views or are unable to accept them. when you said you were a gay man in your earlier post, i thought of all these things and i decided that they were not pertinent to my point. i also considered if i wanted to out myself as an active christian on this list that i love for fear of being judged. on a sunday like the one i just described, this list was a comforting place. gay men and women like yourself would understand my thinking...even if my family and friends and church did not. on the 23 of july, the second reading selected is from ephesians and i am scheduled to preach. the reading is about jews and gentiles..circumcised and uncircumcised. the point is that all were made one in the new church. and i intend to speak of matthew sheppard again because it's clear in the christian church that they are comfortable thinking all were made one, but when it comes to straight and gay as opposed to jew or gentile...well..they haven't quite gotten that far just yet...because they are still not sure if god hates fags. and i'll cause trouble for myself and my family. and my wife will be pissed because i will have embarrased her in front of the good conservatives. and there will be no lying around naked that day in my home. and i'll wonder if i did the right thing. and i'm not even a gay man. but i believe in the truth that that all men and women are one. so i am feeling today that if i can dirty my hands like that and keep with the ones that don't like my views..and i'm not a native of their land...then our judy, who is being invited by people who share her views, and given a microphone, and is a native of their land, could have at least done something a little better for gay men and women than issue a press release stating what every episcopalian already knows...that the church is not in agreement about sexuality. wow. big deal. i'll suggest a book for you stephen....Stealing Jesus by Bruce Bawer. He's a gay man, and an episcopalian man. i promise you, you will like him. the theme of the book is the tension between love and law. the story of jesus is about love. men and women lower that to law. that is the essence of the Bawer book. the new testament is only consistant about one thing..love transcends law. and when they conflict, choose love. that is the same thinking that is held by the vast majority of church leadership that judy protested. the presiding bishop has said over and over that he reads nothing in the bible that says that homosexuality is wrong. when held to a vote with the anglican communion, he stood his ground and was ridiculed world wide. called a liberal american. he's a friend of gay men and women and it was his event that was inviting judy and she walked away from it. that's why i think she screwed up even though i'm sure she did the best she could. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:48:47 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re:Synchronicity, etc. Then the amazing thing happened. I crossed the tracks, and the street beyond them and when I looked up at the street sign I was on Beale Street. "Beale Street?" I thought, "isn't that the street in Furry Sings The Blues?" Way too kewl! What a great find! I wonder who Old Furry really was? I'll have to listen to that song today. What comes to mind is a bio on Robert Johnson I happened to find a link to while searching through Lauranero.net. For anyone who is a big Robert Johnson fan, as I am, this is a good read. http://www.soul-patrol.com/soul/johnson.htm Rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:15:20 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) > wow! Patrick-we've been e-mail friends for ages, I am pleased to say. I have enjoyed our discussions, our jokes etc. I knew we shared an interest in God. I knew we both abhorred bigotry and false religion and those that preach hatred and intolerance in the name of Jesus and those that are so sure they are right they can't see Love at all. I didn't know just how far your righteousness and bravery went. I really admire you. A good example of what Christianity is all about. It seems you really have taken Jesus to heart and are doing just what he would do. thank you colin - -- Is it OK to use the AM radio after noon? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:25:33 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Interesting Buckingham/Nicks Joni connection <> Detective Kakki is on the case! Smells like sweet success to me! Could be yet another jewel in your crown Kakki! Bob NP: The Cure, "39" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:44:14 EDT From: "Pat Post" Subject: Impossible Dreamer I always think of John Lennon when I hear this song, too. But MLK jr. is a famous dreamer as well. I didn't think of him though, in relation to this song, until I read it on this list. Pat P. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:53:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re:Synchronicity, etc. <> Old Furry was Furry Lewis, a blues singer retired in Memphis. Jenny mentioned in the song was his neighbor. I was always under the impression that she was a daughter or family member until I heard Joni sing "Jenny's there, his neighbor, for her kindness and Furry's beer"... Paul, I enjoyed your story too but was surprised that you hadn't identified it with Memphis. She does sing "down & out in Memphis, Tennessee, old Furry sings the blues.." That's pretty darn specific! :~) And Beale St. to me is as famous as Bourbon St. Anyway, I hope I don't sound like a picky-ass...I loved your synchro tale! Bob NP: The Cure, "If Only Tonight We Could Sleep" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:13:29 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: CD tree Hi everyone! I need to thank the 'Burner King' Bob for this wonderful tree, and asking my involvement! And it sounds f*****g fantastic! Special thanks go to Pearl for sending me some fine fine pics of Joni on the Rosie show. (Thanks Pearl! I will be sending your copy soon!) I have a suggestion about the art... people who have printers could just email me privately, and I could send it (Jpegs) to them. Or does anyone have a page where we could download them to be retrieved by others? Let me know! Take care, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:14:04 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: A cat joke Out For The Night A couple was going out for the evening. They'd gotten ready - all dolled up, cat put out, etc. The taxi arrived, and as the couple walked out of their home, the cat shoots back into the house. Not wanting their often rowdy cat to have free run of the house while they were out, the husband went back upstairs to chase the cat out. The wife, not wanting it known that the house would be empty, explained to the taxi driver "He's just going upstairs to say goodbye to my mother." A few minutes later, the husband got into the cab, and said "Sorry I took so long" he says, "Stupid old thing was hiding under the bed and I had to poke her with a coat hanger to get her to come out!" - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:07:05 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Kansas City (Altman) NJC I've been enjoying the Robert Altman thread a alot, and haven't seen any mention of Kansas City. What did you Altman fans think of that one? I *loved* that a who's who of prominent young jazz players were cast to play their '40's counterparts (Cyrus Chestnut as the young Basie was my favorite, given their similar "girths" and all), and the two soundtrack albums that resulted from the sessions for the movie (much of the hottest stuff of which was, unfortunately, left out of the film...but it would have been a four-hour movie, otherwise). :-) I'm curious, though, as to what people thought of the movie. It didn't get great reviews when it was released, I remember that. I enjoyed it, a couple of days after release, in a nice arthouse-type theatre in Cambridge, MA. It didn't enjoy a very wide release. That was the *only* theatre in the greater Boston area in which it was playing. "Boston Jim" NP: David Lahm, Jazz Takes On JM, "Solid Love (Version Two)" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:05:03 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Musician Artists NJC It wouldn't surprise me if there existed a book or at least an exhibit catalogue of the work of Tony Bennett. (Yes, he's really pretty good!). LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:31:23 EDT From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Beale Street << From: PPeterson4@aol.com Subject: Synchronicity, etc. Well, in light of the Paprika Plains, Black Crow and other magical stories of finding Joni's music intersecting with life, I'll tell my story of "Furry Sings the Blues" coming to life before my eyes.... >> Quite a few years ago, I spent about 2 months in Memphis, and during that time, I only made it down to Beale Street once (I was working very long hours). One night, a beautiful summer night (there's that weather reference again) a group of about 20 of us went down there, hoping to hear some jazz, and drink some beers, and let of a little steam. While I thought it would be cool to see the place that Joni talked about in the song, I wasn't prepared for the impact it would have on me. Everybody was scurrying, trying to decide which club to go into to have a drink, while I decided to sneak off by myself to see the sights. Just as Paul stated, it was all there - the pawn shops, the park with W.C Handy... but the thing that got me the most was the Daisy's. I'm kind of embarassed to admit this, but for some reason I never understood what that part of the lyrics meant. "There's a double bill murder at the New Daisy, the old girl's silent across the street, silent, waiting for the wreckers beat, silent, staring at her stolen name". If the phrase 'Doh!' had been around back then, I'm sure all of Memphis would have been treated to a nice loud one. There in front of me were the two Daisy's, the original one dark and boarded up, a ghost from the past, cast aside for the 'new and improved' New Daisy. I'm sure had I came upon this without ever hearing the song, I would have thought nothing of it. Everyday they tear down old buildings to replace them with something 'new and improved' - it's no big deal. But seeing this, and reflecting on the song, I started to grieve for this old building. In it's hey day, it was probably the place to be, filled with people, and music and life. But just like Furry, it's time had come and gone, and just like Furry it had to sit there and watch as the young upstarts, the next big thing, the latest and greatest, slowly pushed them aside - cursed by memories of what was, and what will never be again. It's the first time in my life that a building ever broke my heart. And then, just like Joni in For Free, turning her back on the street musician, the signal changed, and I, too, slowly made my way across the street to get myself a cold beer, a touch of some live jazz, and a friend to talk to. But I entered that bar with a few more gray hairs, and an understanding that I didn't have before. Jack Now playing - Nothing - A moment of silence for the old Daisy, and all she represents ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:36:11 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: cool water i was recently given a copy of chalk mark by a friend and i am sitting here listening to it and i'm thinkin...son of a bitch..that's willie nelson singing there...and sure enough...it's willie nelson. beat of black wings is in my top five joni songs but i never had this cd, i had misses. so it was a very nice gift indeed to hear he context of the album. it's a good album and that is two new ones for me this month...miles of aisles and chalk mark. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:48:36 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: CD tree We could put them on the tape tree j-cards page on the JMDL I designed a while back. I think .tiff format would be best - jpegs turn out really pixely. Let me know, Steve if you want me to put them up there. NP-Joni, Born To Take The Highway At 8:13 AM -0500 7/13/00, Steve Polifka wrote: >Hi everyone! > I need to thank the 'Burner King' Bob for this wonderful tree, and >asking my involvement! > And it sounds f*****g fantastic! Special thanks go to Pearl for sending >me some fine fine pics of Joni on the Rosie show. (Thanks Pearl! I will be >sending your copy soon!) > I have a suggestion about the art... people who have printers could >just email me privately, and I could send it (Jpegs) to them. Or does >anyone have a page where we could download them to be retrieved by others? >Let me know! >Take care, > > >Steve - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:53:50 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Christian artists (NJC) The Pazman wrote: >All the >best Christian artists were participating; Jars of Clay, Sonic Flood, Kim >Hill, Natalie Grant, Sonic Flood, Twila Paris, Wes King, + many more. But was Sonic Flood there? :) - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:09:14 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians NJC (long) In a message dated 7/13/00 4:40:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << Maybe Judy's way was effective purely because she is famous and there was publicity about why she cancelled, therfore publicising the issue. >> I agree. She has us talking, doesn't she? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:26:05 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Beale Street In a message dated 7/13/00 10:38:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Merk54@aol.com writes: << One night, a beautiful summer night (there's that weather reference again) a group of about 20 of us went down there, hoping to hear some jazz, >> The last time I was in Memphis, and not too long ago, walking with my feet 10 feet off of Beale Street, you would go looking to hear some BLUES, the music that made Beale Street famous. Since when did it become a jazz alley? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:34:47 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) In a message dated 7/13/00 6:31:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Siresorrow writes: << in your earlier post you mentioned that you were a gay man and i refrained from bringing that into the discussion. i would like to say something toward that now that will help demonstrate why i feel comfortable suggesting judy took the easy way out. >> I did misunderstand you when you talked about Judy separating herself --I thought that you meant that she separated herself from the gay community (of which she is a big supporter). I didn't read your statement to mean Episcopalian men and women. This may account for some of our disagreement. However, I take issue with your statement that she took the easy way out. Whether or not you mean it, this is a very judgmental statement and you have no way of knowing what Judy went thru in making her decision. FOR YOU, CANCELING MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE EASY WAY OUT. I don't know if it was the easy way out for Judy or not, but based upon her humanitarian efforts of some 40 odd years, I doubt that it was an easy decision. One other point I'd like to make. Sometimes the goal of protest is to separate. Was this Judy's goal? I have no idea. But this can be a most effective form of protest and way to bring about change. Sometimes you can work within the system, and sometimes you can't. (And there is probably always disagreement as to what the case may be in every situation.) :-) I applaud the actions that you have taken. Your heart is certainly in the right place. But I also applaud Judy because I feel that her heart was in the right place. Who has been more effective, you or Judy? I don't think a comparison is needed. YOU BOTH HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE IN YOUR OWN WAYS. No form of protest is easy--that is my point! Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 17:54:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: addictive!NJC Okay, now I know for sure just how addictive this e-mail thing can be. i just had an e-mail from a Joni lister telling me she is now in labour but that the contractions are only 5 mins apart so she is at her computer...... makes me pant just thinking about it. now will the little join us when it is old enough? - -- Is it OK to use the AM radio after noon? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:03:26 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: Stupid Girl?/Lead Balloon/River Hey Kakki sweetie, thanks for responding to this. Being on the other coast I never knew that "it's his town" was a official tagline associated with Geffen, tho I suspected it cause I'm aware of his huge wealth. Also, the line about the "helping hand" and an interview in wich Joan says that Geffen froze her income for a time cause her record sales were not covering their costs - and she'd received advances - and if it wasn't for the fact that she never sold her catalog and by retainining the rights to that at least had some income from songwriting... As for them saying "it's his town" about JW of RS in NYC Stephen would know better than me, living on his block, but there's so much other wealth (Wall St./foreign/inherited etc etc) here in NYC that it's mindboggling - I don't really think JW is that high up there. Truthfully, I never heard NYC being referred to as anyone's town. If anyone, it would be Mayor Guilliani - possibly Donald Trump's name has come up in that context over the years. Best, -Kenny Kakki wrote: > Hi Kenny, you wrote: > > > Also, any comment on this recent thread. I was long under >the impression > that Lead Balloon was about David Geffen. >There were many threads after > the release of TTT, and my >recollection was that the consensus was that > Geffen > > was the object of Lead Balloon. > > I remember those discussions - people thought it was most likely to be > either Jann Wenner or Geffen. I was aware that Joni has a grudge against > both but thought it was Geffen mainly because of the repeated lyric line > "it's his town." > When Geffen was swiftly rising in wealth, power and influence a few years > back, he was written about frequently in local L.A. newspaper and magazine > articles. I remember the ubiquitous phrase "it's his town" used in several > of them for awhile, usually in the context of how powerful he had become. > Also, I wonder about the lyric "I had to ask him for a helping hand" - it > seems more likely Joni would be (probably reluctantly) having to ask a favor > of Geffen rather than Wenner because Geffen was more directly tied into the > actual machinery of the music biz and she'd been on his label. But I trust > Stephen's statement on this, too. And maybe in New York they say "it's > (Wenner's) town" ;-) > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:10:42 EDT From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Jazz vs. Blues Paul I wrote "The last time I was in Memphis, and not too long ago, walking with my feet 10 feet off of Beale Street, you would go looking to hear some BLUES, the music that made Beale Street famous. Since when did it become a jazz alley?" Yikes! Sorry about that, I guess I had jazz on the mind, with all this talk of Mingus going on. Obviously, I meant to say blues instead of jazz. That's what I get for posting in the morning before my first cup of caffiene! Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:11:28 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) Quotes from Al Gore : "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." --Al Gore "Democrats understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child." - -- Vice President Al Gore "Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts." --Vice President Al Gore "Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, & water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." - --Vice President Al Gore, 8/11/94 "The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." - -- Vice President Al Gore, 9/15/95 "I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change." --Vice President Al Gore, 5/22/98 "One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, & that one word is 'to be prepared'." --Vice President Al Gore, 12/6/93 "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." --Vice President Al Gore, 11/30/96 "I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future." --Vice President Al Gore "The future will be better tomorrow." --Vice President Al Gore "We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world." --Vice President Al Gore, 9/21/97 "People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history." -- Vice President Al Gore "I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." --Vice President Al Gore to Sam Donaldson,8/17/93 "We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe." -- Vice President Al Gore "Public speaking is very easy." --Vice President Al Gore to reporters in 10/95 "I am not part of the problem. I am a Democrat." --Vice President Al Gore "A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." -- Vice President Al Gore "When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame. --Al Gore "Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it." --Vice President Al Gore, 5/20/96 "We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur." -- Vice President Al Gore, 9/22/97 "For NASA, space is still a high priority." --Vice President Al Gore, 9/5/93 "Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." --Vice President Al Gore, 9/18/95 "The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Al Gore may or may not make." --Vice President Al Gore "We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made." --Vice President Al Gore "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -- Vice President Al Gore "[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system." -- Vice President Al Gore AND, OF COURSE, (TO ALL USERS OF THE INTERNET), THE ALL TIME FAVORITE QUOTATION OF MR. AL GORE: "As many of you know, I was very instrumental in the founding of the Internet" --AL Gore to Katie Couric 3/99 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:52:33 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Joni litho for sale I have an extra unsigned litho from Joni's concert in Chicago and would like to sell it. It's the front view cover of BSN and I would like to sell it for the price paid, $50.00. If you are interested, please e-mail me privately. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:55:36 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: unmasking don juan It just occured to me that I called it the wrong thing... it's Mescalito! (I am sorry, Don Juan...) :D A couple of days ago I wrote: >My guess would be Don Juan Matus. I never finished reading "The >Teachings of Don Juan" but what I did read I could see some >correlations between Carlos' peyote visions in the desert and the >lyrics in DJRD. I might have to join the all Joni list if this >thread turns into one about Carlos Casteneda! :D - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:13:38 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) Almost all of these quotes have been circulating the net for years attributed to Dan Quayle. I think we can rest assured that they are apocryphal. - --Michael - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's hard to be a diamond in a rhinestone world." - --Dolly Parton, "Tennessee Homesick Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:16:28 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) Quotes from George Bush: "The Episcopal Church is very ritualistic and it has a kind of repetition to the service," he said. "It's the same service, basically, over and over again. Different sermon, of course. The Methodist Church is lower key. We don't have the kneeling. And I'm sure there is some kind of heavy doctrinal difference as well, which I'm not sophisticated enough to explain to you." "I saw the report that children in Texas are going hungry. Where? You'd think the governor would have heard if there are pockets of hunger in Texas." — George W. Bush whose state ranks 2nd in total number of children living in poverty, to Austin American Statesman, 12/18/99 " Please," Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "don't kill me." — Bush mocking what Karla Faye Tucker said on Larry King when asked, "What would you say to Governor Bush?" prior to her execution by lethal injection as reported by Talk magazine, September 1999 "Sitting down and reading a 500-page book on public policy or philosophy or something." — Bush was asked to name something he isn't good at by Talk magazine, September 1999 issue. What I'm against is quotas. I'm against hard quotas, quotas that basically delineate based upon whatever. However they delineate, quotas, I think, vulcanize society." — George W. Bush (Austin American-Statesman 3/23/99) "I'm all name and no money"- George W. Bush, 1986 "I think when it is all said and done, I will have made more money than I ever dreamed I would make," - George W. Bush, 1998, commenting his $15 million gain from the sale of the tax-subsidized Texas Rangers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:19:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) > > > " Please," Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "don't > kill me." > — Bush mocking what Karla Faye Tucker said on Larry King when asked, > "What would you say to Governor Bush?" prior to her execution by lethal > injection as reported by Talk magazine, September 1999 > My guess is that people such as this think their shit doesn't stink and that they will have never have to answer for their crimes. he is as much a murderer as the ones he kills. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:39:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Stupid Girl?/Lead Balloon/River Hi Kenny, > thanks for responding to this. Being on the other coast I >never knew that "it's his town" was a official tagline >associated with Geffen, tho I suspected it cause I'm aware of >his huge wealth. Well, it's kind of funny because Geffen only enjoyed this reference in the press for a few years. Now I rarely seem to read anything about him and when I do, it's somewhat negative. "Everything comes and go" - especially in Tinsel Town! ;-) > As for them saying "it's his town" about JW of RS in NYC >Stephen would know better than me, living on his block, but >there's so much other wealth (Wall St./foreign/inherited etc >etc) here in NYC that it's mindboggling - I don't really think >JW is that high up there. The more I think about it L.A. could be JW's "town" in the sense of Rolling Stone's power in the music and entertainment biz. JW is also originally from California and went to a rpiavte school in my hometown and then, I think, on to UC Berkeley and used to spend a lot of time here. I'm going to trust Stephen on this one. What I wonder now is if she really threw a glass of Tequila on him, heehee. This also has made me think that, in a way, the high fame and stature of her "enemies" sort of underscores her own greatness ;-) >Truthfully, I never heard NYC being referred to as anyone's >town. If anyone, it would be Mayor Guilliani - possibly >Donald Trump's name has come up in that context over the >years. I agree - New York is just too big and diverse that it would be hard to pinpoint any one "big guy", although Trump does seem in recent years to be the media poster boy for "Mr. New York" ;-) Kakki NP: Joni - Cotton Avenue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:48:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni/Carly, Carly/Joni catman wrote: > Well I don't see why that would be controversial. It makes >sense. People who interpret the world the same way would >get on. Relationships between those that don't see the world >the same way are diffiuclt. I feared that my response might have been a little too shallow and not well stated. I do suspect that their east coast sensibilities and culture would have been have a strong common point, plus the fact that both their families are well-entrenched on the east coast - it may have been more compatible to their goals of settling down and raising their family and all. I've read so much about James being close to his brothers and sister (all located on the east coast) and Carly is very close to her sisters, too. Just speculating here, but it seems Joni and her extended "family" was pretty rooted in the west at that point. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 16:15:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: CD tree Thanks for the input, Mark. I have seen those files and they're great! I just wanted to throw in that as always I will be labeling the CD's themselves. Steve designed 2 awesome labels for me. F&J 1 has a pic of Joni with her cap pulled over her eyes, from the '83 tour booklet I'm guessing. Anyway, guaranteed to raise a smile. F&J 2 is Joni & Rosie, Rosie holding up BSN, and on Erskine's Bass Drum, the words "Flotsam & Jetsam Vol. 2" Really cool! Bob NP: Tim Curry, "Charge It" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:21:59 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Quotes from the Veep (very very very NJC) (snip) Hmmm. I've read every one of these (save the last) first like five years ago and then every year since attributed to Dan Quayle. Who was the original, Caligula? celebrity = X - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:50:44 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Subject: Judy Collins on RoseAnne Hello All- I wonder if anyone caught Judy on the RoseAnne show the other night. She sang a new song that she wrote and talked to Roseanne for a long time. They seem to have such a good time together and both complimented each other alot. I wonder if that was a repeat cause there was no mention of the Episcopal Fiasco. I am also an Episcopalian (thanks to mom) and was married by an Episcopal priest, but when I go to church now I attend a Catholic Church in my neighbourhood simply because I don't care for the Episcopal Church there and I like the Catholic one (which is a little strange I admit). I have never been to crazy about religion and the division of Christ amongst all these different denominations. I have always been a Christian (born again, but NOT recently always as I said before) and I am comfortable worshiping the lord with whoever and whereever I might be. My business takes me to alot of different churches and I find that the ones that have less politics, more music and love are the ones where it feels better. I do feel the Episcopal Church (small as it is) should take the position to support all of our brothers and sisters regardless of everything. Michael (getting off my soap box now) NP-Windowpane-Ben Monder (this guy sounds alot like Metheny Group at times and then some) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #389 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?