From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #386 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 12 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 386 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- karen black njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Howdee to all ["Adrian T Chang" ] Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California [Kenny Grant ] Re: Stupid Girl?/Lead Balloon/River [Kenny Grant ] Re: unmasking don juan [Kenny Grant ] Re: Mystical Coincidences [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California/TNT Trib [Kenny Grant ] Re: Mystical Coincidences - Kind of long [Heather ] Re: re Remasters (rephrased ques.) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Top Five Joni Songs [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: RS - article on Joni's romances NJC [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: re Remasters (rephrased ques.) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: "Russian on Prozac?" [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni re Henley ["P. Henry" ] Judy and the Episcopalians -NJC ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:41:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: karen black njc as usual, heather is reading my mind!!! i was thinking of trilogy of terror only a few days ago and so i did a search for karen black!!!! can you beat that synchro????? here's the url: http://us.imdb.com/Name?Black,+Karen heather, you're gonna have to stop this thing you do, you witch you! wallyk, did you know that karen black did the voice of the sea witch in the little mermaid? > Movie goers: > Does anyone know what happened to Karen Black? I remember this made-for-TV > thing she did back in the mid to late 70's .... something to do with > Trilogy .... Trilogy of Fear (??). All I remember is it scared the poop > outta me! > > Curious Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:57:47 -0700 From: "Adrian T Chang" Subject: Howdee to all Well thanx to all for such a loverly greeting. Everyone here I've heard from seems so sweet and welcoming and it makes me feel wonderful. As for everyone who i haven't met yet, I look forward to talking to you in the not so distant future. By the way, I just got For the Roses on cd. For years I've listened to the LP version my mom has had since the 70's but now that we don't have a record player anymore, i haven't been able to listen to it. I'd forgotten how much i love that album. Its so great. Well anyways thats besides the point. Also, just outta curiousity: whats everyones favorite album? i think mine is either clouds or court and spark. i'm leaning more towards court and park. As much as i love the pure folk-ness of clouds, i jsut can't help but fall in love with the jazzy flavors and style of court and spark. LOL random random random post. Ah well Love and Peace 4ever, Bunny Send FREE Greetings for Father's Day--or any day! Click here: http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/fathers_day.rdct ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:44:24 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California Hey Adrian, Don't know if you saw the TNT All Star-Tribute to Joni Mitchell concert recently (taped 4/6 at NYC's Hammerstein Ballroom on W.34 betw/ 7th and 8th and aired 4/19) Hosted by Ashley Judd featuring sister Winonna and Bryan Adams (vocal duet-"Raised on Robbery,") Cyndi Lauper (vocal- "Carey"), Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter (vocal duets-"Chelsea Morning," and "Big Yellow Taxi," guitar duets-"Amelia,") Winonna (guitar-"You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio", James Taylor (backup on "Big Yellow Taxi," solo on "River"-guitar) , Richard Thomson from The Fairport Convention (guitar-"Woodstock," "Black Crow"), Elton John (piano-"Free Man in Paris"), Cassandra Wilson ("Dry Cleaner from Des Moines"), Sweet Honey And The Rock ("Circle Game"), and presenters Susan Sarandon, Hilary Clinton (video), Laurence Fishburne, and Tony Bennett, and JONI MITCHELL ("Both Sides Now") Whew, did I leave anything out? Don't think so, watched it about 15 times! Well Rosie O'Donnell and Glodie Hawn were in the audience, (and *I* said hi to Goldie on my way out!) Other celebs in the audience for sure, tho I'm not one to spot them :-) When Winonna took the stage, she said "Joni, I've loved you since I was 10 years old, I can't believe I'm doing this." So you see, you're not the only one who's loved her since age 10! I personally didn't get into her music till around 18 - a little more than half a life ago! There's other young fans here, other gay fans here, others whose spouses and partners hate Joni's music (mine included :-( -- but like yours, have respect for her muscisanship, lyrics, genres, and after 36 yrs (32 on a label) - legend! Anyway, welcome to the list! Best, -Kenny n.p. "At Last," David Letterman Show, 4/30/00. Adrian T Chang wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I'm new to the list and figured I'd drop my first email to say "hi" to everyone. So I'm Adrian, most of my friends call me Bunny, as in Bunny Boy, Bunny Blue, Baby Bunny and whatever else anyone can think of. Call me whatever you want. I'm open. About me, I'm 17, I'm gay and from the bay area in California. By the way, the "I'm Gay" part isn't me trying to brutally throw that on you, I just thought I'd mention it. Anyways, It's hard for me to find ANYONE my age or even any age in my area that appreciates Joni as much as I do(besides my parents, but they were hippies so...). My boyfriend hates her musick(though he respects her as a artist and a musician, he just really dislikes her style). So its a little dissapointing that I don't really have any friends that I can randomly chat about Joni with, without having to explain who she is. SO i figured I'd join the list and meet some other "groupies and fanatics" like me. I've been listening to her since I was a baby and to! > ok up guitar when I was 10 because I wanted to be like her. So thats all I can think of to write. I better go, its really late. Well, hopefully, I'll meet all of you later. > > Love and peace, > Adrian > > Send FREE Greetings for Father's Day--or any day! > Click here: http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/fathers_day.rdct ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:44:15 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: Stupid Girl?/Lead Balloon/River Simon, Thanks for clearing this up. Tell me, did Joni write River about James Taylor? When James Taylor took the stage at the TNT tribute to perform "River," he loooked at Joni and said something like "there she is, the bone, on the throne, where she belone....thanks for writing this" Was he just appreciative that Joni wrote a great piece of music, or touched that it was written about him? I NOW know that FTR is about JT (always thought it was about JM), always knew that Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire was about JT, but figured that cause "River" is on Blue, that it might be about someone else (David Blue?) Also, any comment on this recent thread. I was long under the impression that Lead Balloon was about David Geffen. There were many threads after the release of TTT, and my recollection was that the consensus was that Geffen was the object of Lead Ballon. Best regards, -Kenny ======================================================= Stephen (SMEBD@aol.com) wrote: < I am curious to know about the situation which is portrayed in the song Lead Balloon from Taming the Tiger. Does anyone know the background of this song? It is my understanding that this song is about Jan Wiener (sp.), the editor of Rolling Stone Magazine. Their feud is famous and began sometime in the '70's when Rolling Stone printer a genealogy of Joni and her relationships. Apparently Joni did NOT find this funny and for years Rolling Stone had an "Unofficial" policy of not liking Joni (or at least this is what I've read). Jan lives on my street in NYC and I sing this song every time I walk by his house--just a nice little Joni moment of revenge for me! :-) Stephen Marilyn replied: Thanks for clearing that up. I though it was about David Geffen and why she changed recording labels (back to reprise). Marilyn ======================================================= simon@icu.com wrote: > Brian Workman writes ... > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >You forgot Stupid Girl by Neil Young from Zuma which he in > >an interview when it was released said was about Joni. > > > >Let me screw up the Jackson B/Joni thread. I've always believed For > >the Roses (the song) was about Jackson and Not to Blame was about OJ. > > > >BDub (longtime lurker) > >_____________________________________________________________________ > > Sorry Bob, > > I didn't forget anything. > I intentionally left this song off the list. > > "Stupid Girl" by Neil Young is not about Joni Mitchell. > try Carrie Snodgrass, mother of Neil's oldest son Zeke. > > Neil and Joni are old and dear friends from their pre-fame days back > in Canada. Neil would never write such a song about Joni Mitchell > > as for "Not To Blame" why anyone would think this song is about > Mr. Simpson is simply beyond me. > > FTR: the song PreDates Joni's "Turbulent Indigo" Album. TI was > recorded, 'in the can' and awaiting release well before the > June 12, 1994 murders of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman > by a person-or-persons Unknown! > > besides, Jackson Browne sees Himself and His behavior in the songs lyric. > why argue with him? > > "For The Roses" is about James Taylor. > > for now ~ take care, > ------- > simon > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 04:57:21 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: unmasking don juan Hey Stephen, Based on my readings of interviews and personal interpretations, I tend to agree with your response to Nikel. I've read that the album cover of DJRD is representational of "the 3 faces of Joni" (young innocent child, "pimp," and Joni,) so it stands to reason that she would be a multidimensional DJ and DJRD. Best, -Kenny SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/11/00 3:35:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > mbirdny@earthlink.net writes: > > << But I wonder if Joni is specifically referring to "the enigmatic Don Juan > Matus, a Yaqui Indian sorcerer", written about in Carlos Castaneda's book > "The Teachings of Don Juan" and subsequent books >> > > I don't know if I can "answer" this question, but I have read/heard > interviews in which Joni refers to having read Castaneda, so I would assume > that Don Juan Matus is in the mix somewhere. But I always assumed that she, > Joni, is both DJ and DJRD (that DJ is multi-representational, somewhat akin > to images in dreams where one person or image can represent a multitude of > people/images). > > That's my two cents, Nickel Chief :-) > > Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:07:40 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: Mystical Coincidences Merk54@aol.com wrote: <> Hello, Actually, it was even stranger than that, if anything. Basically....shortly after recording the basic track for "Lindsey," Joni was at a party in a hotel. She got to talking with a drunk there and mentioned that she needed a tape of wolves howling. I've got a tape of wolves howling, he said. Wow, that's great, she said, let me give you my address so you can send it to me. No, I mean I have it on me, he said, bringing out this cardboard box full of tapes. She looped a snippet of the tape he gave her, and found that the loop sychronized perfectly with her track, as you describe. I saved the article that somebody posted to the list some time ago where Joni tells the whole story so brilliantly. I'll dig it up and post it again (if nobody else does first). "Synchronicity" -- that's the word for those meaningful, mystical coincidences..... Cheers, - --David NP: The English Beat, _I Just Can't Stop It_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:59:37 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California/TNT Trib Adrian Chang wrote: > Hey There, > > I DID watch the TNT special. It was so kool. Yeah, I should really do my research b4 I post. kd Lang did a vocal "Help Me" and Diana Krall did "A Case of You" on piano, on top of the others I mentioned. Oh well, haven't posted much in a LONG time, maybe I won't get bashed too badly :-) What was a real treat was that seating was unassigned at the Hammersten Ballroom, and while they tried to usher me and my friend towards the back, this particular friend noticed the unassigned seating, and had balls enough to ignore them and push me up front. I wound up 6th row center, and perfectly perpendicular to Joni - about 20 yards away! - and got to see her reaction to everyone's performance - tho not as clearly as on the video replay :-) Wish I'd met Joni, though Goldie Hawn was a cool boobie prize :-) Best, -Kenny n.p. TNT Shawn Colvin & Mary Chapin Carpenter, "Chelsea Morning" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 06:14:19 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) i'll have to hold my ground on this issue stephen. it's my personal feeling that the way she chose to make a stand was a far lesser offering than to use the concert and the microphone to say what she has experienced and how that has led her to believe as she does. the episcopal church is small..2 million approx. and is made up of a mixture of believers. the presiding bishiop has blessed same sex unions and is often criticized for it. her comments would have had a huge impact because of her recognition and the small size of the church. the concert in question was for the presiding bishop's fund for world relief. that was the money raiser and that was why she was the draw. that fund goes to many suffering people who are not questioned as to their orientation before being helped. you and i don't disagree on the issues. we disagree on how one goes about expressing one's beliefs. to walk away in protest remains the easiest of solutions but not the most impacting. i wish judy had gone on stage and supported the rights of homosexuals to be ordained and to have the right to be married, and to have shown her support for the presiding bishop who is trying to make these changes within a broad base of thinkers. i think judy and frank griswold would have gotten along famously and i feel like here decision was not the best choice for the larger group. i do recognize that it may have been the only way she was comfortable making her stand. but in the end, that stand led her away from the people that wanted and needed her support so i do think in the name of standing up for what she believes, she separated herself from the others...those that shared her beliefs and those that did not. pat In a message dated 7/11/00 11:02:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SME BD writes: << Judy didn't separate herself, she took a stand. A public stand. She spoke out against what she feels is wrong. And when she speaks, there are people who listen. As a gay man, I appreciate what she did. In the 1960s she spoke out against racism and helped to register Black voters in the South. Judy fights for what she believes in and she felt that by not performing she was calling attention to the injustice. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:11:26 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: Mystical Coincidences/Wolf That Lives in Lindsay Hey David, That's EXACTLY how it happened! I'm pretty sure it's on either or both jm.com and jmdl.com, but I heard her tell the story in a radio interview that I heard and taped in the early 80s. The only part you left out is when she went into the hotel bar and Tim Harden saw her and sang hello Joni and she sang back hello Timmy :-) Also I believe she took the drunk's tape up to her hotel room and played it/looped it right there. If I can locate the tape I'll let you know (haven't seen it in a while). Best, -Kenny np Amelia Bolvangar@aol.com wrote: > Merk54@aol.com wrote: > < recorded all of the music (without the wolf howls), and decided the song > needed something extra. She then got the idea to record wolf howls, and try > and mix them into the song. So she set out to the mountains with her trusty > tape recorder, and managed to get some howling that she was pretty happy > with.>> > > Hello, > Actually, it was even stranger than that, if anything. > Basically....shortly after recording the basic track for "Lindsey," Joni was > at a party in a hotel. She got to talking with a drunk there and mentioned > that she needed a tape of wolves howling. I've got a tape of wolves howling, > he said. Wow, that's great, she said, let me give you my address so you can > send it to me. No, I mean I have it on me, he said, bringing out this > cardboard box full of tapes. She looped a snippet of the tape he gave her, > and found that the loop sychronized perfectly with her track, as you describe. > > I saved the article that somebody posted to the list some time ago where > Joni tells the whole story so brilliantly. I'll dig it up and post it again > (if nobody else does first). > > "Synchronicity" -- that's the word for those meaningful, mystical > coincidences..... > > Cheers, > > --David > > NP: The English Beat, _I Just Can't Stop It_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:19:37 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: RS - article on Joni's romances Who cares. That article was written 30 years ago by some hippie with bad breath and no friends, who didn't have the brainpower to realise that he was writing about real people. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:41:57 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Howdee to all In a message dated 7/12/2000 1:27:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, water_faerie17@mailcity.com writes: << i think mine is either clouds or court and spark. >> Oh oh, you're in trouble now , you like Clouds. I forgot to tell you about the Hejiras. These are listmembers that will hunt you down because they believe that Hejira is the greatest album ever created. Personally I LOVE Clouds and as such I have been in hiding for several years. I have heard the barking of the dogs and strains of Benny Goodman in the distance and the drums of Jungle Line over the horizon but clutching my love of Clouds I have made it this far. The list is sort of like ancient scotland lad and ya haff ta bewAAAAre of which part of the forrest yer in. Scottie beam Adrian up. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:44:09 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California In a message dated 7/12/2000 1:54:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kg@nyc.rr.com writes: << Don't know if you saw the TNT All Star-Tribute to Joni Mitchell concert recently (taped 4/6 at NYC's Hammerstein Ballroom on W.34 betw/ 7th and 8th and aired 4/19) Hosted by Ashley Judd featuring sister Winonna and Bryan Adams (vocal duet-"Raised on Robbery,") Cyndi Lauper (vocal- "Carey"), Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter (vocal duets-"Chelsea Morning," and "Big Yellow Taxi," guitar duets-"Amelia,") Winonna (guitar-"You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio", James Taylor (backup on "Big Yellow Taxi," solo on "River"-guitar) , Richard Thomson from The Fairport Convention (guitar-"Woodstock," "Black Crow"), Elton John (piano-"Free Man in Paris"), Cassandra Wilson ("Dry Cleaner from Des Moines"), Sweet Honey And The Rock ("Circle Game"), and presenters Susan Sarandon, Hilary Clinton (video), Laurence Fishburne, and Tony Bennett, and JONI MITCHELL ("Both Sides Now") Whew, did I leave anything out? >> Diana "shaky fingers slurred words" Krall and KD Langs PANTS. crinkle crinkle. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:47:34 EDT From: SuzyMQue@aol.com Subject: Top Five Joni Songs My favorite Joni songs are: 1) Refuge of the Road 2) Judgement of the Moon & Stars 3) Blue Motel Room 4) Dry Cleaner from Des Moines 5) California But I agree with everyone......it's so difficult. Suzy from the Sunny South ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:50:23 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: RS - article on Joni's romances NJC In a message dated 7/12/00 4:23:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: << Who cares. That article was written 30 years ago by some hippie with bad breath and no friends, who didn't have the brainpower to realise that he was writing about real people. >> It looked as though Darice cared and was interested. Obviously not because of its potential accuracy, but because one gets interested in a source document. MG - delurking, which is fortunately better than delousing ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:55:59 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Top Five Joni Songs Since my kids are now adios for the summer, I've been able to actually listen to my stereo without interruption. For the past several mornings, I've been going through all of my Joni CD's and here's my Top Five as of Wednesday morning: 1. "Close Your Eyes" (the Joni/James stuff) 2. "Crazy Cries of Love" 3. "Blonde in the Bleachers" 4. "The Last Time I Saw Richard" (from MOA) 5. "Blue Boy" MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:12:05 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) Pat, Judy Collins did not "walk away" from the Episcopal Church. The EC, of which I have been a member and have much affection for, has a history of half-steps: a diocese does not have not to ordain women or allow women to serve, because that might offend those who oppose women's ordination. Thus the EC has dioceses which are raging centers of open hostility to women (such as Fort Wayne). That is what is happening on this issue. But the EC puts itself out as being open towards women... instead of stating the full reality, that in the EC women are welcome most places but not all and the EC will do nothing to make the EC in its fullness open to women. And recent attempts in the EC General Convention to make the entire EC in ALL of its dioceses) open to women have failed. The same local option thing is being done on gays and lesbians. And thus Judy Collins decided not to participate in a function for a church body that does not ensure full acceptance in every diocese, but allows local option for discrimination. The EC is a church of basically gentle and genteel people who are a fine witness to the Gospel. The local option route may be the way the Spirit is working through them to ensure some positive steps. That is not the issue for me. I have many friends in the EC and I understand that they could only take this step at this time due to the politics within the church. Judy Collins has a right to say, with local option, some are opted out, and she is right, and she made her gentle statement by her absence from a concert. Would it had been better if she had appeared and starting making statements that would have been viewed as offensive, using the church concert for a political platform? Or to play and say nothing and imply her consent with that which she opposes? I wouldn't worry about the Presiding Bishop's Fund (which I understand now has a new name). The contributions will still be there. In fact, they already are. A performance at a church event is not a "money raiser" but simply a part of the whole convention. Again, reasonable people may disagree with her withdrawal from the concert. I am not trying to "convert" you to my way of thinking, just explain the thought process of one person who applauds her action. With love, (the Rev) Vince Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > i'll have to hold my ground on this issue stephen. it's my personal feeling > that the way she chose to make a stand was a far lesser offering than to use > the concert and the microphone to say what she has experienced and how that > has led her to believe as she does. the episcopal church is small..2 million > approx. and is made up of a mixture of believers. the presiding bishiop has > blessed same sex unions and is often criticized for it. her comments would > have had a huge impact because of her recognition and the small size of the > church. > > the concert in question was for the presiding bishop's fund for world relief. > that was the money raiser and that was why she was the draw. that fund goes > to many suffering people who are not questioned as to their orientation > before being helped. you and i don't disagree on the issues. we disagree on > how one goes about expressing one's beliefs. > > to walk away in protest remains the easiest of solutions but not the most > impacting. i wish judy had gone on stage and supported the rights of > homosexuals to be ordained and to have the right to be married, and to have > shown her support for the presiding bishop who is trying to make these > changes within a broad base of thinkers. i think judy and frank griswold > would have gotten along famously and i feel like here decision was not the > best choice for the larger group. i do recognize that it may have been the > only way she was comfortable making her stand. but in the end, that stand led > her away from the people that wanted and needed her support so i do think in > the name of standing up for what she believes, she separated herself from the > others...those that shared her beliefs and those that did not. pat > > In a message dated 7/11/00 11:02:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SME BD writes: > > << Judy didn't separate herself, she took a stand. A public stand. She > spoke out against what she feels is wrong. And when she speaks, there are > people who listen. As a gay man, I appreciate what she did. In the 1960s > she spoke out against racism and helped to register Black voters in the > South. Judy fights for what she believes in and she felt that by not > performing she was calling attention to the injustice. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:40:30 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: JONI INTERPRETERS - Janis Siegel and Dianne Reeves (NJC now) Dave- I have always been a fan of Janis Siegel because in my opinion, she is the spark plug that ignites the Manhattan Transfer. Except for EXPERIMENT IN WHITE and SHORT STORIES, I have all of her solo recordings. They all bear her that great voice of hers. Her latest is THE TENDER TRAP which features a reinterpretation of the classic standard songs (listen to the 5/4 arrangement of "That Old Black Magic"). Her version of Joni's "River" is hard to eclipse because of the heartbreak she brings to the song, and of course, Hersch's impressionistic pianism. Dianne Reeves' version of Joni's BSN is also a classic version. IMHO, she was able to make clear to me what are the song's subtler and rarer dimensions. She was accompanied by her relative -- George Duke, on that song. Yes, I also have Reeves' BRIDGES album and also liked her "River". Incidentally, if you like the ManTrans, Cheryl Bentyne (one of the 4 voices) released 2 solo albums -- SOMETHING COOL (tribute to June Christy) and DREAMING OF MISTER PORTER (tribute to Cole Porter). Enjoy! Joseph On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, dave fairall / beth miller wrote: > Joseph, > > I liked your lists, want to revisit mine and include Mingus. > Come In From The Cold is a sometimes overlooked tune, and Cassandra > Wilson's version of Black Crow with Don Byron on otherworldly clarinet > is the wildest. I didn't realize that Janis Siegel, of Manhattan > Transfer fame, had produced any solo efforts, but confirmed that fact > via CD NOW, after your making mention of her, always appreciated her > voice. FYI... Dianne Reeves also recorded River, on her most recent > Bridges album, a version which features nice soprano sax work by Kenny > Garrett. > > Thanks. > Dave F. > > 1. Janis Siegel (River) > 2. Brian Kennedy (A Case of You) > 3. Dianne Reeves (Both Sides Now) > 4. Minnie Riperton (Woman of Heart and Mind) > 5. Cassandra Wilson (Black Crow)> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:17:01 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Russian on Prozac?" <> From what I can recall, Larry's genealogy is Russian, and that's where the "Russian" reference comes from. In the Rock Master Class Interview from 1985, she mentions his Russian background and how he used his "Russian" voice when he recorded the sample of him saying "Truth" that was used in the recording of "Fiction". Sort of a Boris Badenov voice..."Keel Moose and Skweerdle"! :~D Bob NP: CSN, "In My Dreams" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:20:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mystical Coincidences - Kind of long <> Thanks for the formal introduction, Jack, and the wonderful story! Welcome to the list. Amazing how that record's imagery is so powerful and totally untainted by the passing of time. I have a similar experience with Winn-Dixie coldcuts and being cast upon a beach town... Bob NP: CSN, "I Give You Give Blind" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:42:58 -0700 (PDT) From: bohodan Subject: re Remasters (rephrased ques.) Question: To North American people.. - - Are Hejira and Hissing remastered in the US? (ie non AAD) - I keep seeing imports @ record fairs but have yet to see the remasters I've heard about... I guess the 80's are still all in AAD. Best to get them on vinyl then, I'd say. btw, Hi to Adrain, good to see there are young Joni fans :-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:10:57 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Mystical Coincidences - Kind of long What a wonderful experience for you, Jack! I have had similar experiences and it does make one believe in the mystical :-) I think it would be interesting to know what time Joni was born. I was reading about the northern lights up in Canada. Interesting things are suppose to happen to those conceived under the northern lights. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:13:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: re Remasters (rephrased ques.) <> I have seen both HOSL & Hejira in HDCD format. Not sure if that answers your question as I'm NOT an audiophile. To this day some of the most memorable music I've heard came out of little cheap speakers in my Dad's car and my sister's GE "Wildcat" record player! :~) Bob NP: Sheryl Crow, "We Do What We Can" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:34:25 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Five Joni Songs After much thought: Actually it IS impossible to pick only five but I wanted to really think about "what if" only five. This is really not the only top five but A top five. These are songs I could listen to again and again forever. First five: 1) Dawntreader : The most mysterious song to my ear. One of the songs that its hard to think of any other song I have ever heard like it. 2) Cactus Tree: probably because the song takes me back to the first timne I ever heard Joni but such a simple production and yet it makes my heart bleed. 3) Songs to Ageing Children Come: Over the top harmonies. Incredible poetry. Another song that is such an original melodic line it has always amazed my ear. 4) Turbulent Indigo: The counter rhythm. The interplay of the instruments. The fabulous drum track and the way it wheezes to an end unlike anyother song I have ever heard even when they try to make it wheeze to an end. 5) All I Want: I think at some point we are all on a lonely road and traveling whether in a car or just in life. The dulcimer (which I miss so much in her songs) just tickles my psyche. Second String: 6) Amelia: Not a song as much as it is an experience. 7) Chinese Cafe: The rich, lush, LA production. this song could not possible have been produced in New York. It would have sounded different. A real experience to listen to. 8) Marci: This song could not possibly have been produced in LA. This is the feeling of walking on the harbor in NYC. Looking out to the other side of the Hudson. To jersey. To the Brooklyn shipyards. this is an incredible New York experience. I have always felt that Marci was Joni and will continue to do so until Joni corrects me. 9) Slouching Towards Bethlehem: Again the production , the rhythm and the flow. Take me away Joni. 10) Cold Blue Steel: If i was trap[ped in an elevator with Joni this is the first thjing i would ask her about. Who they are and how she came to write this song. Graphic scenes. dark mystery. Incredible melody and texture. Runners up. Third String: 11) Night Ride Home 12) Passion Play 13) For the Roses 14) Just want To See You Again 15) Dont know where I stand Fourth String 16) Furry Sings the Blues (live version) 17) Off night backstreet 18) Shiny Toys 19) Sire of Sorrow 20) I think I understand 21) (just for the heck of it) Robbie Robertsons lead guitar dancing on the choruses never ceases to thrill me .... Raised on Robbery ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:35:50 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: RS - article on Joni's romances NJC wrote: > > It looked as though Darice cared and was interested. Obviously not because of > its potential accuracy, but because one gets interested in a source document. > I understood that. I just expressed my opinion about the non value of the source document. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:49:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: re Remasters (rephrased ques.) bohodan wrote: > Question: To North American people.. > - Are Hejira and Hissing remastered in the US? (ie non > AAD) - I keep seeing imports @ record fairs but have > yet to see the remasters I've heard about... > > I guess the 80's are still all in AAD. Best to get > them on vinyl then, I'd say. Any marked HDCD have been digitally remastered. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 06:51:51 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: ROTR if anyone has, preferably, an original or a good copy of the video "Refuge Of The Roads" please email me privately??? tanx, pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 06:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: "Russian on Prozac?" My heritage and fondness for Joni's darker lyrical moments seems to have earned me this dubious title. Still, it's not nearly as bad as some things I've been called on this list. Larry Klein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 07:00:15 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Joni re Henley nikki shared: Bruce asked: >>When Joni announced, on stage recently, that "Henley is on the warpath," what warpath was that? I'm not supposing it pertained to Geffen, but some other target of DH's ire.>> >I don't know what in particular Joni was making reference to but I do know that Don Henley is VERY vocal on many issues. Of course the environment...he is always speaking about that and supporting the preservation of the environment. Also he makes his point about the record industry known...and how he is dissatisfied with it. There are just so many...give him a topic and he'll give some very strong opinions... he does try to make changes, he's not just talk. Basically I guess my point was it could be anything...or everything!> ...or... it just might be referring to the fact that DH has just recently, in the last month or so, come out of hiding after about 8 or 9 years to perform and record again... ya think? ;o) pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:15:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Judy and the Episcopalians -NJC From the horse's (AP) mouth: JULY 12, 03:56 EDT Episcopalians Nix Gay Rites By JUDITH KOHLER Associated Press Writer DENVER (AP) Episcopalians have scrapped a plan to develop rites for same-sex couples, instead approving a resolution to support and minister to gays and lesbians in committed, monogamous relationships. The resolution approved Tuesday by delegates at the Episcopal General Convention recognizes that unmarried church members in faithful relationships deserve the same support and pastoral care as other members. But an original proposal, which included rites for unmarried couples both gay and heterosexual narrowly failed in the 832-member House of Deputies, comprised of clergy and lay members. The plan failed by one vote among clergy members and by four votes among lay members. The 300-member House of Bishops was expected to consider the revised plan Wednesday at the Episcopal General Convention. The Rev. Michael Hopkins of Glendale, Md., president of Integrity, an Episcopal gay advocacy group, said approval of the proposal would mark the first time the church has recognized ``the presence of gay and lesbian relationships.'' The resolution also acknowledges that individual dioceses will continue to bless same-sex unions without churchwide sanction. ``We're confused. We're not giving a clear message to anybody,'' said the Rev. Martyn Minns of Fairfax, Va., an opponent to blessing same-sex unions and a board member of the conservative American Anglican Council. Opponents warned that approval of the original measure would divide the church and alienate the 70-million-member worldwide Anglican Church. The Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of the Anglican Church. ``Let those in this house not tear asunder that which God has brought together,'' said the Rev. Kendall Harmon of the South Carolina diocese. The acceptance of homosexuals is among the biggest issues at the 10-day convention. Other denominations, including the United Methodist Church and Presbyterian Church (U.S.A), have recently voted against blessing same-sex unions and ordaining homosexuals. The 1.4 million-member United Church of Christ sanctions same-sex unions. Episcopalians have been debating the roles of homosexuals in the church for at least two decades. A 1976 resolution said they are full members of the church and entitled to ``love, acceptance and pastoral concern and care.'' But a 1979 resolution said it wasn't appropriate to ordain non-celibate homosexuals as priests. A 1994 church law says it is wrong to discriminate based on sexual orientation. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:31:40 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) In a message dated 7/12/00 8:09:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << udy Collins has a right to say, with local option, some are opted out, and she is right, and she made her gentle statement by her absence from a concert. Would it had been better if she had appeared and starting making statements that would have been viewed as offensive, using the church concert for a political platform? Or to play and say nothing and imply her consent with that which she opposes? >> well...you raise many good points and clearly it is not a simple issue to decide between protest and contribution. i am reminded of joni's invitation to the artist's awards where they asked her to help identify ways that they could create more van gogh's in the world today and we all know her response to that suggestion. so no, i definately don't think she should have become offensive or compromised her beliefs. what i think is that no one now knows what her experiences were that have led her to believe as she does and that is the piece of her witness that was available to all had she gone on to perform and talk about her convictions. and that is very episcopalian in style to do that so i think she would have found a receptive environment at the general convention. you are right about the local diocese options and certainly dallas texas is another behind the times situation. i still view that as the the half full verses half empty thing. in other words...yes there are some places that have not been able to keep up with changes. that is not to say that the broad church is denying their complex reality. i think most episcopalians are open to women. i'm not sure i can say that about homosexuals but the time is right now for that transformation and the women's issues were paved in the 70s and 80s. so in time, i think the homosexual issues will be reconciled in the broad church. i also have a big picture view which flavors my opinion toward judy's walk. i am thinking of all the denomoniations of christian churches, the one denomination that holds enough mainline tradition and stability but is most willing to wade into murky waters of change is the episcopal church. so i think it is limited for judy to point to the church's complexity and say...since you don't have it together on these issues, i can't be a part of your concert. especially if she is a cradle episcopalian as she implies. i would think she would want to see the good things that have come around and their significance in the world of christianity taking precedence over a few miserable diocese where chauvenists still reign in power. and then i guess i also think that the time of protest within institutional churches has come to pass. the reformation led to 20 some thousand denominations and flavors of christianity. when we walk away, we only separate ourselves more. i just would want to see her stick in there and use her celebrity to fight for the good that is happening there. but i'm an eternal optimist vince and i am often disappointed with the organized church. and i too have walked away at times in protest but i have found that it only led me to be separated from the community and it denyed them of my convictions. and then i can tell you that i suggested to my wife that we skip church this week and lie around naked for a few hours on sunday morning and listen to the latest judy collins cd. and you know what she told me? she said and i quote.."this is that internet stuff coming out in you now and all those liberal people you email with are a bad influence on you and you are havig a mid life crisis...and besides,...what kind of role model will that be for the kids? and who is this judy collins...i thought you liked joni mitchell. " patrick np. a bird that whistles - might be a very cool song for a naked sunday morning ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:42:23 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy and the Episcopalians -NJC In a message dated 7/12/00 10:24:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << But an original proposal, which included rites for unmarried couples both gay and heterosexual narrowly failed in the 832-member House of Deputies, comprised of clergy and lay members. The plan failed by one vote among clergy members and by four votes among lay members. >> now see!!! if those five dickheads were judy collins fans...and she did some songs and danced for them...we might have a whole different outcome today! five votes out of hundreds...that's interesting to me. it's good..not bad. some things take a long time to evolve. patrick np. two step - dmb, listener supported ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:44:12 EDT From: PPeterson4@aol.com Subject: Joni on Paprika Plains Here are the two sources for what I know about the creation of Paprika Plains. The first is by Anthony Fawcett: "Paprika Plains," an unwinding slice of autobiography and dream sequences which takes up a whole side of the double album Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, is an unusually complicated and ambitious example of this building process: "Oh! A lot of shuffling went on," Joni confirms. "There were Indian grass chants in the middle of it, there were a hundred and one different ways that I approached that. More so than anything else on the album. The instrumental passage in the middle just poured out. It was the most experimental and bewildering piece, but it was always moving forward, always changing, much in the same way that Picasso paints—all of a sudden he would have the painting beautifully balanced and he would decide to block out something over here, so he would change it, and now his balance is thrown out; this area is beautiful but it has to go in order to balance it. When he finishes it there would be onlookers who would say, 'I liked it better the way it was before.' But he's always working towards his own satisfaction, that's his only criteria. Following is an excerpt from an interview that appeared in Musician magazine: Musician: What made him (Mingus) think you were nervy? Joni Mitchell: Two things: he thought I had a lot of nerve to be dressed up like a black dude on the cover of Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. He couldn't get over that. He was sort of thrilled by it. The other thing was the piece "Paprika Plains," which made him mad at one level, and kind of interested him on another. What happened was I hadn't played piano for a few years, and in January, just before making that album, I called up my producer and said, "Henry, we've got to go in the studio right now because for some inexplicable reason I'm playing piano better than I have any right to be. I can't hit a wrong note." What I'd done was give myself a freeing lesson and said to myself, "Everything resolves to C; no matter where you go you can't hit a wrong note, just go home to C." We went in the studio and cut this thing four times. It was a trance-like situation. The four improvisations we recorded all clocked in at between twenty-nine and thirty-one minutes, so my attention span each time was almost exactly the same. From those four performances I edited together a piece that was to become the bridge for "Paprika Plains" and months later I wrote a song in which I inserted this segment. In the meantime the piano had been retuned a number of times. Then I gave the piano piece with lyrics to an arranger who added strings. The strings begin in the January section of the piano piece, but when they hit the October part, the piano tuning has changed, so the strings have no chance to retune as they cross over. That really infuriated Charles. "The orchestra's out of tune... they're in tune, they're out of tune!" Well, that drove him crazy (laughs). So he thought I was a nervy broad. Both are courtesy of this very JMDL site - from the Articles archives. Thanks Les! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 11:06:37 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: MINGUS Matt Snyder wrote about JM's Mingus: Hey Matt, How about Sweet Sucker Dance?..... One of my favorite tunes on that record. Joni's blossoming jazz sensibilities are evident, she really seems secure and relaxed w/ her phrasing, and Jaco and Wayne's interplay is just extraordinary. What a cool tune........!!! I wore the cassette out back in 1980, listened to it endlessly when I was on the road, and although some of my musical colleagues didn't think much of it at the time, today most everyone agrees that it's a milestone recording. It's provocative to think of the potential liaisons that might have been, but "Mingus" included Herbie Hancock, Peter Erskine, Wayne, Jaco, and Joni, which I don't think happened again. Thanks, Dave Fairall ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #386 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?