From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #383 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 11 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 383 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) [catman ] Hi from the Bay Area in California ["Adrian T Chang" ] Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Penny's S'toon post - ps ["P. Henry" ] Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California [Janet Hess ] Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California [catman ] Pret a Porter (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Episcopalians (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Episcopalians (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Wish/which; I'm back (NJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] How sick can one get?NJC [catman ] Re: NJC Luka [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Penny's S'toon post - ps [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Penny's S'toon post - ps ["P. Henry" ] Re: Ronee Blakely NJC big time and Nashville ["Paul Pennington" ] Re: unmasking don juan [SMEBD@aol.com] NJC - Ronee, Nashville and Altman [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni's friend, website report, favorites ["Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) > and have you read the pope's > message to the gay and lesbian community? so little time, so many geezers in > funny little frocks whose ass to kick NUMB. > wallyk, fuming in subzero buenos aires Yes-it was on the news here. Prat came to mind. - -- http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:56:12 +0100 From: catman Subject: for cat peopleNJC http://funone.com/fun2/03/catbath/index.html - -- http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 02:40:25 -0700 From: "Adrian T Chang" Subject: Hi from the Bay Area in California Hello Everyone, I'm new to the list and figured I'd drop my first email to say "hi" to everyone. So I'm Adrian, most of my friends call me Bunny, as in Bunny Boy, Bunny Blue, Baby Bunny and whatever else anyone can think of. Call me whatever you want. I'm open. About me, I'm 17, I'm gay and from the bay area in California. By the way, the "I'm Gay" part isn't me trying to brutally throw that on you, I just thought I'd mention it. Anyways, It's hard for me to find ANYONE my age or even any age in my area that appreciates Joni as much as I do(besides my parents, but they were hippies so...). My boyfriend hates her musick(though he respects her as a artist and a musician, he just really dislikes her style). So its a little dissapointing that I don't really have any friends that I can randomly chat about Joni with, without having to explain who she is. SO i figured I'd join the list and meet some other "groupies and fanatics" like me. I've been listening to her since I was a baby and took up guitar when I was 10 because I wanted to be like her. So thats all I can think of to write. I better go, its really late. Well, hopefully, I'll meet all of you later. Love and peace, Adrian Send FREE Greetings for Father's Day--or any day! Click here: http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/fathers_day.rdct ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 02:40:35 -0700 From: "Adrian T Chang" Subject: Hi from the Bay Area in California Hello Everyone, I'm new to the list and figured I'd drop my first email to say "hi" to everyone. So I'm Adrian, most of my friends call me Bunny, as in Bunny Boy, Bunny Blue, Baby Bunny and whatever else anyone can think of. Call me whatever you want. I'm open. About me, I'm 17, I'm gay and from the bay area in California. By the way, the "I'm Gay" part isn't me trying to brutally throw that on you, I just thought I'd mention it. Anyways, It's hard for me to find ANYONE my age or even any age in my area that appreciates Joni as much as I do(besides my parents, but they were hippies so...). My boyfriend hates her musick(though he respects her as a artist and a musician, he just really dislikes her style). So its a little dissapointing that I don't really have any friends that I can randomly chat about Joni with, without having to explain who she is. SO i figured I'd join the list and meet some other "groupies and fanatics" like me. I've been listening to her since I was a baby and took up guitar when I was 10 because I wanted to be like her. So thats all I can think of to write. I better go, its really late. Well, hopefully, I'll meet all of you later. Love and peace, Adrian Send FREE Greetings for Father's Day--or any day! Click here: http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/fathers_day.rdct ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:37:33 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Mingus the album > Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > > >>What are our top 3 Mingus albums? Mingus Moves (the reissue on Rhino includes an amazing bonus track called Big Alice) Re-Incarnation Of A Lovebird The Essence Of Charles Mingus (Jap compilation) Thanks for the education Joni. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:37:16 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: The Johnstons I found this page about The Johnstons on Paul Brady's website. http://www.paulbrady.com/johnstons.html They were the first band to do a cover of BSN when they released it as a single in '68 with Urge For Going on the b side. Apparently Joni did some shows with them in England. The single was awful and I made a frisbee out of it a long time ago. Sorry Bob ! Philip NP Brian Wilson - Your Imagination ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:37:52 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: NJC Luka Bob, He had been making records since the 1970s under his own name Barry Moore. Have you heard any of those ? I've seen him in concert many times. He's better live than on record in my opinion. He used to to do great live versions of Moondance and the old chestnut Danny Boy. Definitely an underrated talent. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:22:16 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: [Re: Mingus the album] (njc) Hello, Lori-- Phyllis was very pleased you'd asked for her when I told her. Richard Bona really is amazing. I heard him live a couple of times last summer and I wanted him to take part in the JAZZ TAKES... sequel, but his schedule was just too crowded. I'm sure he triumphed spectacularly at Montreux. To recommend music by the jazz artists you mentioned, I will have to refer to their original, or at least very ancient, LP titles under which I bought them in the 50s and 60s: MONK (my original inspiration) The Unique Thelonious Monk Monk's Music Thelonious Monk and John Coltrane Thelonious Himself were all on RIVERSIDE He was featured on some of the following LPs titled for other people: Milt Jackson on BLUE NOTE (the tunes you want are Criss Cross, Eronel and Four in One) Sonny Rollins, Vol. 2 on BLUE NOTE (Reflections & Misterioso) Bags' Groove, on PRESTIGE (Miles Davis' date, with Bags' Groove, take 1) Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers with Thelonious Monk, on ATLANTIC. IMO, Monk was at an extra high level playing with certain other cats, most notably Art Blakey and Milt Jackson. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Charlie Parker: This repertoire has been reissued so many times I have to refer to individual tunes: Congo Blues, Get Happy, Hallelujah and Slam Slam Blues---with Dizzy, Red Norvo Teddy Wilson ANY of the SAVOY recordings (Ko-Ko, Billie's Bounce, Now's the Time, Tiny's Tempo, Red Cross, Milestones, Half Nelson, Barbados, Constellation) ANY of the DIAL recordings, but especially 3/28/47: Moose the Mooche, Yardbird Suite, Ornithology, Crazeology (also called Air Conditioning) et al. Also the sessions with Bird of Paradise, Klactoveedsedstene, Cool Blues (w/Errol Garner) On Verve, there were 9 or 10 Bird LPs. My favorites were Bird and Diz (Monk on piano) and the quartet recording with Chi-Chi and The Song is You. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dizzy Gillespie: On SAVOY, the collection with Blue 'n' Boogie, All the Things You Are, Dizzy Atmosphere, Hot House and Salt Peanuts. (The last three featuring Charlie Parker). Well, Lori, there go your Sundays!! Please say hello to Tymo for me and I do hope to see you soon in NY. DL ------------------------------ Date: Tue Jul 11 08:28:25 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Luka <> No, and I couldn't recall his real name either, so thanks for that! Does he come from Barrytown? (Couldn't help throwing in another Steely Dan reference, sorry...) Is he related to Drew Barry Moore? :~) OK, I'll shut up, I'm being silly now... Bob NP: Elton John, "Captain Fantastic & The Brown Dirt Cowboy" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:36:49 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: The First Two Hours in S'toon Penny wrote: >Pat, I hate to say, I forgot one stack of things I meant to take... and your information... >She remembered you by name alone. I didn't have to describe what you did or the club.> whoa! somebody pinch me! this is TOO good! this I couldn't have anticipated! not after so long... wow! penny, this makes me almost glad you forgot the pics! I'm... speechless! :o)))))) > >I'm sorry Pat, I didn't have them with me. I feel bad about that, but on the other hand, if I had you would be more likely to be disappointed if she didn't contact you... If she wants to track any of us down, she could do so easily through Les. Haha, do we all give Les permission to give Joni our email addys? ;-) > that's ok... I have a feeling the next few years are gonna be VERY bizzy for our SIQUOMB... not much chance she'd have time to write and besides, you're right. I'm sure she and 'her people' are very well aware of how to contact us if she wants to... thanks again so much penny. it's hard to describe how profoundly this affects my life. :o) cheers, pat NP: Black Crow http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/ Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue Jul 11 08:32:26 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California NJC <> Hello, Adrian, and welcome to the Jonilist! I'm gonna call you Adrian for now as opposed to Bunny, which reminds me of Gomer Pyle's girlfriend, which reminds me of Jim Nabors, which reminds me of the awful version of Both Sides Now that he did! :~) Of course, Adrian reminds me of Rocky's girlfriend, so there you go... Anyway, welcome to you - looking forward to your thoughts! Bob NP: Elton John, "Bitter Fingers" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:45:10 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Penny's S'toon post - ps penny wrote: >Here's part of the thing, I was going through the digest archives awhile back looking for something, and ran across posts where people were giving you shit, calling you a liar and such. It angered me to see how nasty people can be out of what looked to me like envy. I decided to take on your plight since I was going to the opening -- your reputation became one of my top priorities in S'toon. I was thrilled to have it accomplished in just the first couple of hours!!!> and again thank you so much for doing so. I was surprised when you wrote and asked me for that info before you left. it's good that you did make it a priority in one sense... anybody who makes claims like I have should be verified cause it just drives people nuts wondering whether to believe the person or not! ;o) I don't really blame them, penny... I think it was mostly out of loyalty to Joni and I sure agree with that. you're right that some made a mistake and now, thanks to you, those who have always taken what I say with a huge grain of salt, and I know there are some, can relax and accept that the only things inaccurate in my posts are maybe simple errors attribuatable to the many years and my gradually slippery memory and not that I'm making the whole thing up... no folks, it really happened just like I said. :o) as for nastiness, well, after 4yrs online now, more and more I'm convinced that a lot of us, including myself, could use chat/forum commumnication classes to master the art of online communication. I know from experience that even when one is innocently just trying to stand up for what they believe is true online, it can be interpreted as a personal attack and the other thing that comes to mind is the devestated feeling one gets getting multiple messages opposing them. it's a lot different than a group of people talking face to face and the dynamics are sometimes overwhelming. the incident you mention was really tough on me as I had come to the list specifically to try to share what I had experienced with Joni with those who, I figured, would love to hear about it... to *their* benefit! in other words I really wanted to give something and it got turned around and I was viewed being ruthlessly selfself serving and I think some still see me that way. I'll accept partial responsibility for that as I know I'm not perfect and can be quite blunt in what I post... but I'm trying to learn better. there have been a lot of flare ups in the last year and a half since I joined the list and for the most part, even though I may have an opinion, I have stopped myself and weighed whether my words would help the issue resolve or just stir things up more and mostly stifled myself for the sake of peace, just cause I don't think I'm too good at being tactful. to me the depressing part of all this in general is that the flame battles and debates that go on alienate some to such a degree that they leave... case in point that has really bothered me lately and brought me to the point of considering the same thing is that of Gina who I never recall posting anything but nice things to say about Joni and music in general who recently just packed up her keyboard and hit the road in dispair over the nastiness saying she just didn't want it anymore. this saddens me... I like Gina and I miss her. pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:58:42 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > What a strange story... > > Collins wrote, "On Wednesday, July 5th, I was shocked to learn that the > Episcopal Church, of which I'm member and in which I was married, does not > have an official national church policy allowing ministers to officiate at > same-sex unions or ordain openly gay people..." > > This reminds me of the scene in "Casablanca" where Inspector Renault blows > his whistle and announces that he is "Shocked, shocked to find out there is > gambling in this establishment!" If the Episcopal Church had an "official > national church policy allowing ministers to officiate at same-sex unions or > ordain openly gay people," we all would have heard about it by now. It would > be a huge step forward for gay men and women and an international news story. Judy's reaction is most timely. The Episcopal Church has tacitly approved the officiating of same sex union for years. A conservative element of the church brought the issue up for a vote just last week at their National Conference. Her reaction was to the result of that vote. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:09:35 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Ronee Blakely and songs of my youth Seeing the thread about "Nashville" reminded me of some old songs I'll probably never hear again, like: Ronne Blakely's 'Gabriel' (come on Gabriel, come on and blow your horn, we could use some cheering up when we're sad...) Megan McDonough's 'My Sister Dolores' and I think she did "The Ring that Turned My Finger Green" Wendy Waldman's 'Spring' (those of us who tend the land set about to planting, the rest do what we can just sitting in the hills and singing - and I know that God must be smiling...) There's also an amazing song by Ellen McIlwaine that's not on any recording currently available - I can hear it, but I don't remember the name... Oh and what was the Raun McKinnon song I loved so much (where are those brain cells when you need them?) Well, when I think of it, I'll let you know. She did it on a sort of honky tonk piano and it was great. Musically, those were the days... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:00:50 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California Welcome Adrian. You have come to the right place. many of us have the same problem you do in that a significant person in our life doesnt have an equal fanaticism for Jonis music. My wife for instance is French and shes into style and decorating and fine dining and accepts my over the top interest in Joni Mitchells music but shes not into pop, rock or folk. Shes into Opera and classical. Thats wonderful actually. Ultimately this place is populated by people with a keen interest in all things Joni as well as modern subject matters so your significant other doesnt have to be bothered with your need to talk about the meaningful things you have found in Jonis music or what she teaches you about life. Things can get a bit testy from time to time but the world is like that in general so storms come and go and the sunshine returns and we go on. Feel free to ask any question or make any point you want. As for being gay. There are many straights and gays in the JMDL. Mostly though there are just nice people. My personal advice is that by and large the list is intended to focus primarily on Joni Mitchell and music as opposed to politics and or religion. Just keep in mind there are about 750 people on the list now so when you post something to the list there will always be one or two or three who take exception to anything. So dont sweat the small stuff. Marcel Deste. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:03:44 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) In a message dated 7/11/00 9:00:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << The Episcopal Church has tacitly approved the officiating of same sex union for years. A conservative element of the church brought the issue up for a vote just last week at their National Conference. Her reaction was to the result of that vote. >> i sent a post to the list from 7/7 on this subject but my posts directly to the list have not been going..so it is lost somewhere. i'll cut and paste the article i tried to post below. i think what you say is very accurate...over all, the episcopal church is inclusive. there remains a radical element within the church that wants to deny women and homosexuals their rights...but over all, as a mainline institutional church, they moved further along in their views toward these issues than any other group i can think of. i was disappointed that judy cancelled. i thought she could have done more by using the concert to speak out. she had the chance to make a statement more than just...i don't like what you are doing, so i won't play for you. i wish she had said...you are wrong for these reasons...and in my personal life i have had these experiences which lead me to believe as i do.... episcopalians understand that kind of language more than protest language. people need to share their experiences. pat Subj: NJC - Judy Collins cancels General Convention concert Date: 7/7/00 11:07:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: Siresorrow To: joni@smoe.org July 6, 2000 GC2000-019 Judy Collins cancels General Convention concert By James H. Thrall (ENS-DENVER) News that singer Judy Collins had decided to cancel a scheduled concert at the General Convention to protest what she called the church's discriminatory policies against homosexuals, prompted a strong response at the convention Eucharist of Integrity, a national Episcopal group of gays and lesbians. In his homily to the congregation that filled St. Johns Cathedral in Denver on the evening of July 6, Bishop Steven Charleston said that Collins must have "been talking to the wrong people." The Episcopal Church "has a long way to go," Charleston said. But, he added, "Judy, look at all the faces in this room, look at the healing that is rising up in this cathedral." In a news release issued earlier that day, Collins stated that she was canceling her scheduled appearance at a July 10 concert to benefit the Presiding Bishop's Fund for World Relief. Collins said that she was "shocked" to learn that "the Episcopal Church, of which I'm a member and in which I was married, does not have an official national church policy allowing ministers to officiate at same-sex unions or ordain openly gay people." While the church is considering moves that would allow each diocese to determine "whether or not to ordain gays and lesbians, or bless same-gender couples on a local level," Collins said that the lack of a national policy amounted to "supporting discrimination." She said she decided to cancel her appearance to protest this "indecision of the Episcopal Church to fully accept all persons into the Christian faith." Sandra S. Swan, executive director of the Presiding Bishop's Fund, said in a statement that she respects Collins' "right to make her own decision." She assured those planning to attend the concert that they would still enjoy the production. The concert, which is also featuring the choral group Chanticleer and musicians from the Aspen Music Festival and Opera Theatre, will celebrate the fund's 60th anniversary. Integrity points to church advances Integrity President Michael Hopkins also said his organization respects Collins' "right to make this decision." Integrity appreciates "the message of the full inclusion of lesbian and gay persons that she intends to send to the church," he said. At the same time, he added, "the Episcopal Church, we believe, is on a journey to the full inclusion of gay and lesbian people, a journey we, as Episcopalians, are proud of --despite the fact that it remains incomplete." Hopkins said, "We especially regret that this action affects the Presiding Bishop's Fund, one of the church's finest organizations, which helps countless thousands of people throughout the world, including gay and lesbian persons." In his sermon at Integrity's Eucharist, Charleston prompted resounding applause and standing ovations at several points, especially after declaring, "Not a single victim in this cathedral today! Not a single victim in this cathedral today!" Charleston, who is dean of the Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, asked rhetorically, "When is it time for the church to stand up and say, 'Enough is enough? The time is now!" The real issue in the church's deliberations over sexuality issues "can be named in two words: It is power and it is fear," he said. "That fear must be expunged from our church once and for all, and that power must be shared." - --James H. Thrall is a doctoral student at Duke University, and former deputy director of news and information for the Episcopal Church. Robert Williams, director of communications and public affairs for the Diocese of Los Angeles, also contributed to this article. ------------------------------ Date: Tue Jul 11 10:16:26 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Johnstons <> Not a problem, Philip...I've now got that recording in my clutches and will include it. In the meantime, their take on BSN closes out V7! You're right, they ain't nuthin' to wrote home about! Bob NP: The Turtles, "Eve of Destruction" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:30:53 -0700 From: Michael Cooper Subject: Nashville (NJC) AMEN, Reverend! By the way, Nashville is (or shortly will be) released for the first time on DVD with all the great extras. Can't wait for that one!!!! Mike If anyone ever got me interested in cinema, it was Altman... who shows what a movie can be when freed from Hollywood conventions. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:35:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > radical element within the church that wants to deny women and homosexuals > their rights...but over all, as a mainline institutional church, they moved > further along in their views toward these issues than any other group i can > think of. Pat, Take a look at the Unitarian Universalists. They are light years beyond the Episcipal Church. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:44:00 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Pat H.'s Post on Joni at Saskatoon! thanks for the kind words john. that is just what I hope to do. in my mind Joni is SO much more than just a 'rcording artist' and can't even be compared on that level. it's more like having known Picasso or Van Gogh when they were so young and boiling over with the passions that eventually became their works... I had the privelege of knowing her all the way live and in living color... not just professionally but personally... and I knew and felt those passions and I have seen them become her works too. that's not easy to put into words exept to say that Joni is a very, very special and unique person and I've never met anyone even remotely like her since... the people on this list come the closest. :o) thanks again and take care. cheers, pat - -- john wrote: >Good on you, pat! I really hope Joni writes to you! The memories you've shared with us have given all of us, I'm sure, a much greater feel for those early years. They certainly have in my case. >Cheers, >John (in Sydney). Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:53:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Joni and VH1 If you have the time to watch the 4 clips Joni did on their site, please do. As usual, she's flawless. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:52:15 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins Protests Episcopalians (NJC) In a message dated 7/11/00 10:34:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << Take a look at the Unitarian Universalists. They are light years beyond the Episcipal Church. >> well...i might just do that...but i am still worried about one thing. my catholic mother has told me that i will be lucky at this stage to even get purgatory when i die, just for having gotten mixed up with the episcopalians! they are after all, protestants! so maybe if i go to the unitarians, i'd have to wear a scapular or something...just in case the catholics really do have it right.... and then again, i'm also attracted to the idea of just laying around naked on sunday mornings for a few hours too. and now we finally have a barnes and nobels in our sleepy little town and that kind of looks appealing for a sunday morning. so all these choices are giving me vertigo! ~:) p. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:56:43 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California Hey, Bunny Boy, welcome in! ;) Anyone who likes Joni AND who is the offspring of hippies is fine on this end. May I volunteer to be your in loco parentis dyke stepmom on the list? I was a hippie too, for what that's worth. I think it's wonderful that you've arrived here on the JMDL. Welcome. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who is a bit calmer now that she's had her morning's Fishys treats At 02:40 AM 7/11/2000 -0700, Adrian T Chang wrote: >Hello Everyone, > >I'm new to the list and figured I'd drop my first email to say "hi" to everyone. So I'm Adrian, most of my friends call me Bunny, as in Bunny Boy, Bunny Blue, Baby Bunny and whatever else anyone can think of. Call me whatever you want. I'm open. About me, I'm 17, I'm gay and from the bay area in California. By the way, the "I'm Gay" part isn't me trying to brutally throw that on you, I just thought I'd mention it. Anyways, It's hard for me to find ANYONE my age or even any age in my area that appreciates Joni as much as I do(besides my parents, but they were hippies so...). My boyfriend hates her musick(though he respects her as a artist and a musician, he just really dislikes her style). So its a little dissapointing that I don't really have any friends that I can randomly chat about Joni with, without having to explain who she is. SO i figured I'd join the list and meet some other "groupies and fanatics" like me. I've been listening to her since I was a baby and to! >ok up guitar when I was 10 because I wanted to be like her. So thats all I can think of to write. I better go, its really late. Well, hopefully, I'll meet all of you later. > >Love and peace, >Adrian > > >Send FREE Greetings for Father's Day--or any day! >Click here: http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/fathers_day.rdct > - -------------- You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:10:54 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Hi from the Bay Area in California Welcome to the list bunny, you will find a home here amongst Joni fans. No need to explain why you said you were gay-if you didn't say it, people would assume you were straight. How exciting to free and open and have somewhere like this at 17. take care colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:24:06 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: (NJC) OScar 1976 > Rev. Vince wrote: > > Does anyone remember what movie won the Oscar for Best Picture the year > the "Nashville" was nominated for Best Picture and didn't win (which > would have been in 76 or 77)? > For all you Nashville and Oscar buffs. The year Nashville was nominated, "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" won the Oscar for Best Picture. Both Lily Tomlin and Ronee Blakely were ,nominated for Best Supporting Actress, but that was the year Lee Grant won. I was pretty sure it was "Cuckoos Nest" but I thought it might also be Godfather Part II. For anyone who would like to check out the site here it is: http://us.imdb.com/Sections/Awards/Academy_Awards_USA/1976. Love Ms. Grant , but yes Vince, Lily should have had the Oscar! Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:59:53 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Pret a Porter (NJC) (the Rev) Vince wrote: > About the only Altman film I didn't care for was Ready to Wear > (Pret a Porter) and even that had its many fine fine moments. Yeah, says Steve, grinning lasciviously, like the last five minutes... :) - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:02:57 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Episcopalians (NJC) In the Judy Collins press release, I noted: "the Episcopalian lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender network Integrity, however, takes a brighter view of the position of gays and lesbians in the 2.4-million-member denomination." As do I. I think Judy has considerably more worthwhile homophobic targets to attack than one of the (on the whole) most open and welcoming denominations in the US. - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:18:19 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Episcopalians (NJC) Steve Dulson wrote: > In the Judy Collins press release, I noted: > > "the Episcopalian lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender network Integrity, > however, takes a brighter view of the position of gays and lesbians in the > 2.4-million-member denomination." > > As do I. I think Judy has considerably more worthwhile homophobic > targets to attack than one of the (on the whole) most open and > welcoming denominations in the US. But attacking homophobia anywhere it does exist is commendable. Not allowing officiating at same-sex unions (we're not even talking marriage here, God forbid) is homophobic. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:52:00 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Wish/which; I'm back (NJC) Bishop Vince (hi, Vince!) wrote: "It hurts so bad it keeps me down, down, down, I want to walk away from this battleground It's hurtin' like it ain't no good I'd give a lot to love you the way I used to do ___________ I could." Does she say "Which I could" or "Wish I could. That of course profoundly impacts on the meaning of the song... is she leaving him because she can't love him anymore, or is she saying, I could still love you but I don't want to." Me now: Like Mark, I'll go with "wish." At the very least, that seems more in keeping with the syntax and vocabulary of the song than "which," which (!) sounds more like it belongs in a philosophical treatise than a hurtin' song about love gone bad. Also, it makes more sense. Why would she "give a lot" to love him the way she used to if it's already in her power to do so? My 2 cents, FWTW! Mary P. P.S. I returned home from my (computerless) journey to Saskatoon and the western United States Sunday, and was back at my desk in the office yesterday. I'll send a few a my own impressions of the Mendel Gallery opening and the entire Saskatoon experience at some later date, if you're not all saturated by now! :-) The short version: It Was Grand. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:46:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: How sick can one get?NJC Spanking our children at the right times, in the right way, and for the right reasons, has been one of the most important things we’ve done as parents. By the grace of our Lord Jesus, it helped them to be able to humble their hearts, to have a sense of remorse for bad behavior, and to want to start over with new hope. Parents Wear Two Hats Our most important responsibility as parents is to be an evangelist to our children. We are called to teach them the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of grace, and to invite them to surrender their lives to Jesus, trusting in his work on the cross and not their own righteousness. And we are to teach them to walk in the Spirit by the grace of God and not walk in the flesh. But, we also have been given the responsibility of a “magistrate” by God. We, as parents, are the “civil government” for the family. We are called to restrain evil in our family, and thereby create a just and peaceful family life in which the Gospel can be preached and lived out by who ever will respond. Spanking is one of the tools of discipline that we have to punish and restrain evil. Zero Tolerance for Disobedience, Disrespect, and Dishonesty We recommend “drawing a line”… a no-compromise line: zero tolerance for disobedience, disrespect, or dishonesty. For example, we didn’t permit our young children to say “no” to us. That word can tend to be a major expression of disrespect unless a line is drawn. Make it clear from the start that such things bring an automatic spanking. And then ask God for the courage and the competence to be consistent. And when the line is crossed by the child, spank the child with no further warnings. The trap all of us tend to get into is warning and warning and never really following through. Consistency means having the conviction to intervene and confront face-to-face EVERY time an example of disobedience, disrespect, or dishonesty is observed. Start Young As soon as the child is old enough to know they’ve done wrong, we recommend starting some form of spanking. You can tell when it’s time. You can discern the situation. If you tell your child, “Don’t touch that lamp”, and they look at you and reach out and touch that lamp, you can tell if it is conscious disobedience and rebellion. For us, it was when they were around eighteen months of age. Spanking each of our children appropriately at a young age was such a blessing for us because, after about a year, the spankings got fewer and fewer. By the time they are five or six, it’s hard to remember the last time they were spanked. Of course each kid is going to be different. Wooden Spoon It worked well for us to use a thin wooden spoon. We felt it to be safer than using our hand, though there were times we used our hand. With the hand there can be too much momentum. We would pull the pants down in the back and spank one, two, or three times on the bare bottom. The thin wooden spoon gives a sting without a large momentum impact. It was our view that the actual magnitude of the spanking was not so important. That is, we could afford to have the spanking be too mild rather than too severe, because it was the act of spanking that was the important thing, not the nature of the spanking itself. Spanking, Loving, Surrendering The moment there was an act of disobedience, disrespect, or dishonesty, we would tell the child they were going to get a spanking and why. We would often tell them to go get the spanking spoon and go upstairs to their room. Once in their room we would explain again why, give the spanking, and then evaluate if there was an attitude of surrender and humility or an attitude of defiance and rebellion. While evaluating the child’s attitude, we would hug our child and love our child and tell them we love them and tell them that Jesus loves them. If there was an attitude of rebellion, such as an arching of the back, or pulling away, etc., we would tell them they were going to get another spanking if they didn’t relent and surrender with a humble attitude. We would then administer another spanking in the same way as the first. Each time the child would be given an opportunity to express remorse and surrender. If necessary, this process would go on through numerous cycles, lasting forty minutes or more. It was important to us to never let go a continuing defiant attitude. Continuing until there is a humbling of the heart is of the utmost importance. When the child would surrender with a humble heart, we would encourage them to say “I’m sorry” to the Lord Jesus, but we wouldn’t force that. We would encourage them to receive Jesus' forgiveness. We would then pray together. And we would pray that the Lord Jesus would help them with their problem and behavior and that the Lord would help Dad or Mom to be good parents. We would often acknowledge that we, as parents, often struggle with the same sins, and that Jesus “spanks” us, too. Using this time to discuss important things with the child is very valuable, teaching them what the Bible says about sin and repentance and walking with the Lord Jesus. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We pray that our Lord Jesus would give every parent who trusts in him the grace and wisdom to properly apply spanking in love as a tool of discipline. If you have any questions or comments on this or any subject, please email Kim or Jim. Jesus loves the little children! - -- http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:04:47 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: NJC Luka - ----- Original Message ----- From: > > Is he related to Drew Barry Moore? :~) > What a choice, to be named after Drew Barrymore or a Suzanne Vega song. That's tough. :) Philip NP Cream - I Feel Free (sampled for a car ad on the radio) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:08:08 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Penny's S'toon post - ps - ----- Original Message ----- From: P. Henry > it's a lot different than a group > of people talking face to face and the dynamics > are sometimes overwhelming Pat, You brought up some really interesting points there. There's not much those of us in the outer reaches of Joniland can do except heed the advice of our host Les and "keep posting". So please keep those early Joni yarns coming. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:36:12 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Penny's S'toon post - ps On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:08:08 philipf wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: P. Henry >> it's a lot different than a group of people talking face to face and the dynamics are sometimes overwhelming>> > >Pat, >You brought up some really interesting points there. There's not much those of us in the outer reaches of Joniland can do except heed the advice of our host Les and "keep posting". So please keep those early Joni yarns coming. >Philip thanks for the reminder, phil. you're right of course... les' wisdom always wins out. it's just that it's sad to see the nice ones go... it doesn't say good things about our list. :o( pat ps - if I ever made anyone feel that kind of sad, I'm really sorry. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:23:11 -0400 From: "Paul Pennington" Subject: Re: Ronee Blakely NJC big time and Nashville Vince Lavieri wrote: > Does anyone remember what movie won the Oscar for Best Picture the year > the "Nashville" was nominated for Best Picture and didn't win (which > would have been in 76 or 77)? I certainly don't remember, but I looked it up: It was 1975, and Nashville was nominated for Academy Awards for Best Picture, Supporting Actress (Ronee Blakley), Supporting Actress (Lily Tomlin), and Director. It won an Oscar for Best Original Song ("I'm Easy," music and lyrics by Keith Carradine). Best Picture that year went to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:28:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: unmasking don juan Dear All, thanks to all those who go take the time to answer my strange and/or trivial Joni questions. I love reading your responses, and am thrilled to have found the list. So, I have one more. Who, in the context of DJRD, is Don Juan? Or, more precisely, which Don Juan is she the reckless daughter of? Obviously there are the famous legends of the world's greatest lover, Don Juan, man of unsurpassed seduction skills. But I wonder if Joni is specifically referring to "the enigmatic Don Juan Matus, a Yaqui Indian sorcerer", written about in Carlos Castaneda's book "The Teachings of Don Juan" and subsequent books. (I understand there is some controversy over whether Castaneda's book is fact or fiction, so I'm not even sure if there is a real Don Juan Matus.) Doing a search through the archives, the identity of Don Juan is not touched upon as far as I can see, but in that period, Joni seems closely connected to things more attributable to a Yaqui Indian sorcerer than any other possible incarnation of a "Don Juan" figure. Anybody out there have specifics for this DJRD-obsessed lad? Nickel Chief P.S. The book excerpt "A Search for Clarity", written by Anthony Fawcett and available in the archives, is a gem. The painting now known as "Axilar Moonrise" was referred to in the text as "the painting of 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'" of which she says "It has a lot to do with the primitive peoples of this continent — the element of the Indian — all bathed in the magic of an electric night. The woman is the spirit of Don Juan's reckless daughter, and everything refers to moments in time." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:43:02 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: unmasking don juan In a message dated 7/11/00 3:35:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbirdny@earthlink.net writes: << But I wonder if Joni is specifically referring to "the enigmatic Don Juan Matus, a Yaqui Indian sorcerer", written about in Carlos Castaneda's book "The Teachings of Don Juan" and subsequent books >> I don't know if I can "answer" this question, but I have read/heard interviews in which Joni refers to having read Castaneda, so I would assume that Don Juan Matus is in the mix somewhere. But I always assumed that she, Joni, is both DJ and DJRD (that DJ is multi-representational, somewhat akin to images in dreams where one person or image can represent a multitude of people/images). That's my two cents, Nickel Chief :-) Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:46:27 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: NJC - Ronee, Nashville and Altman Because of the recent Ronee Blakely thread on this list, I rented Robert Altman's "Nashville" last night after not having seen it since its general release in 1975. My reaction? It's an incredible film, as close to a flawless masterpiece as American cinema has gotten in the last few decades. This movie is just filled with perfect performances, great scenes, priceless lines and dialogue, and unforgettable shots of American faces and places from the mid-seventies. Although I had feared that it might not have aged well, if anything, "Nashville" is better now than ever. A true classic. Since jmdlers seem to love artistic perfection in all its forms, I thought I would share my enthusiasm for Altman at his finest. From the steel and arrogance in Henry Gibson's character's cold little eyes as he sings "We Must Be Doin' Somethin' Right to Last Two Hundred Years" to Lilly Tomlin's absolute captivation and surrender to a singer/songwriter's performance (and don't we know that feeling), "Nashville" is stunning. I could go on and on about this film and its entire cast but really, you just have to see it. So set aside 159 minutes and rent this video as soon as you can. If any of you know of any other movie that paints such a vivid portrait of American life, please let me know. "Fargo" and "American Beauty" are great, I think, but "Nashville" is just masterful. --Bob PS: I think Barbara Jean/Ronee Blakely sings "Wish I could," not "Which I could." And her performance was also superb, sort of like a vulnerable Joan Crawford, if you can imagine that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:13:00 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: Joni's friend, website report, favorites Thanks for this luscious tale of old friends. Anne Bayin must be a writer herself as I was absolutely absorbed by her tale of travel and memories revisited. Secret shy lister, thanks for the report, it was nice to have this perspective. All the commentary of the show yet nowhere did I read of Kilauren. This makes me sad; maybe things are still strained as Joni alluded to during the Today Show interview? Let's hope that the event was just too high profile for Kilauren. Jim J., thanks for the great report on the website. I laughed at your over exuberance regarding the event, showing us all that you are a fan as well as webmaster. Question: Did Wally get to see any of these paintings on his visit to Joni's? Reading every account of the opening made me think of how he would have been beaming. Again, a big thanks to all who have shared their experiences. I am sure it made those of us who couldn't go feel like we were a part of it, I know it did with me. Favorites: Hissing Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Night Ride Home Shadows & Light Sue Cameron NP: Breeze through the trees and washing machine humming... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #383 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?