From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #363 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Friday, June 30 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 363 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Just like this train ? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] today IS the day njc but read ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Just like this train ? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Just like this train ? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Just like this train ? ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Just like this train ? ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Just like this train ? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) [FMYFL@aol.com] We Met Joni!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Your Pet Deadly Sins - NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) [Matthew Snyder ] Re: We Met Joni!!! [Catherine McKay ] Drivers Wanted (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] The Mendel (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] PazFest ["Michael Paz" ] Re: We Met Joni!!! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: today IS the day njc but read [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Just like this train ? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: The Mendel (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: today IS the day njc but read [Catherine McKay ] Re: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians [pat holden ] Re: We Met Joni!!! ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: (VLJC) Newbie on board! [Linda Worster ] BSN programs [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians NJC for all those cranky types [pat holden ] So long for a bit ... [Don Rowe ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:03:44 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Just like this train ? In a message dated 6/29/2000 10:30:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jamespatrick7556@hotmail.com writes: << Hey, I've got a ? for anyone that may know the answer. Who was Joni watching there hairline resede, my main darling, in Just like this train from Court and Spark? Thanks for any information, James >> I thought it might be James Taylor and boy did she call that one (if in fact it was about him). He,he,he! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 05:31:08 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: today IS the day njc but read if you weren't my mom and if you didn't have a hubby i would make you my lovey-dovey! EVERYBODY RISE TO SALUTE THE FUNNIEST, HANDSOMEST, BALDIEST HOT DADDY ON THE jmdl: LET'S HEAR IT FOR JIMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ON HIS [FILL IN THE BLANK]TH BIRTHDAY. dear parent of mine: i'm so proud to be your little walter. [how incestous can one be?] love, wally das K ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 30 07:39:14 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just like this train ? <> And it's funny, on one of the '79 concerts she sings "my vain baldy"...makes me crack up every time. I also cast a vote for JT being the recipient of this one. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "New Lace Sleeves" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:35:11 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Though I love the song, I've always thought "Watching your hairline recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower lines. Jerry np: Fred Simon: Usually/Always ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:24:13 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Jerry Notaro wrote: > Though I love the song, I've always thought "Watching your hairline > recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower lines. > > Jerry > > np: Fred Simon: Usually/Always Before any of the Joni Police write to correct me, it was a joke. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:39:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) - --- AngelinoCoyote@aol.com wrote: > Saskatoon cub reporter Coyote Rick here with an > early report from the center > of the universe for all Joni Mitchell (the painter) > fans. > > The shopkeeper at the Mendel said [...] that Joni seemed relaxed, > although is self conscious about her art. She has > been in and out of the > gallery all week and loves walking along the river > in her big, floppy hat. Thanks, Rick, for your good news - you just head on out to the river and walk around and maybe you'll run into Joni herself accidentally on purpose. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:40:01 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: today IS the day njc but read > if you weren't my mom > and if you didn't have a hubby > i would make you my lovey-dovey! > > EVERYBODY RISE TO SALUTE THE FUNNIEST, HANDSOMEST, BALDIEST HOT DADDY ON THE > jmdl: > > > LET'S HEAR IT FOR > JIMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy Birthday, Jimmy! Have a great day! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:53:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Just like this train ? - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > Jerry Notaro wrote: > > > Though I love the song, I've always thought > "Watching your hairline > > recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower > lines. > > > > Jerry > > > > np: Fred Simon: Usually/Always > > Before any of the Joni Police write to correct me, > it was a joke. > What? Paranoid, are we? ;) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:14:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Just like this train ? James Phillips inquired: > I've got a ? for anyone that may know the answer. > Who was Joni watching there hairline resede, my main > darling, in Just like this train from Court and > Spark? My guess: James Taylor. Lori in DC, wishing everyone in Saskatoon a fine, fine time and crossing fingers for your meeting with Joni NPIMH: Just Like This Train (thanks, James!) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Just like this train ? P.S. - James, I think it's "my vain darling." Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:37:07 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Catherine McKay wrote: > > > What? Paranoid, are we? ;) No, just been around a loo-o-o-o-o-n-g time. Jerry 8-> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:42:30 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) AngelinoCoyote@aol.com writes: << Although we strategically timed our visit to the Mendel to perhaps see Joni, no such luck. However, in a late breaking news item, it seems one of our traveling listmembers did have the honor at 3:15PM. I won't steal any thunder on that one. >> Oh I just heard the news over the phone, and I'm so happy for "her". I won't steal the thunder on that one either. I was also told by David that he was on the plane with Valentino (I think that's his name), who is the friend of Joni's that dances with her on the PWWAM. There is Joni-mania all over Saskatoon! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:59:28 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: We Met Joni!!! Arrived in Saskatoon yesterday afternoon. Our hotel, the Bessborough, is right on the river, with the Broadway Bridge out our window. A very picturesque city. Headed down to the Mendel to pick up some posters of the event, and met Penny as we were walking there. She relayed how she had met Joni earlier at the Mendel, and had given her a hug. Wow!! It seems surreal that we are actual here, in Joni's hometown. Continued on, and found the Mendel, which is a beautiful gallery. Everything was closed up except the gift shop and the lobby. The picture of the Wild Things Run Fast cover was in the lobby, so we had a chance to see that. It is GORGEOUS!!! And HUGE!!! 5' by 12' at least! So..on to the gift shop where I picked up many extra posters for the Jonifest giveaway, and other things. ;-) 3 others were in the gift shop at the time, and as I was ringing everything up, one of them said, "Are those ALL for you?" "No, I said. See, I belong to a Joni Mitchell discussion list...." and immediately the other 2 yelled, "ASHARA????? Is that really THE Ashara?" LOL!! Giggling, I found out that it was Rick from Vancouver and John from Chicago. Finishing up and on our way out, talking a mile a minute, all of a sudden we saw Joni, also on her way out. We had a brief encounter, and she was very, very gracious. Luckily, John's partner, Richard, had a camera with him, and all of us got a picture with Joni. We didn't have much time with her, truly I only had enough time to introduce myself and say that I had traveled all the way from Boston for this, but it was very special to see the Lady in person. Today we are all meeting for lunch, and then on to the Mendel for the opening. More to follow soon! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:03:41 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Your Pet Deadly Sins - NJC In a message dated 6/30/00 2:10:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << But as far as the heavenly virtues go, I'm REALLY going to try and practice temperance and prudence this weekend. My liver will thank me, I'm sure! >> you know, thomas aquinas wrote about temperance and continence. as far as i can tell, teperance was about resisting ..general all around temptation. continence was about resisting ...in the heat of passion, when the chips were down, and the thing is is right there in your face..kind of temptation. so maybe hell, this weekend, you should pray to thomas aquinas for some continence, so that way if someone puts a fosters lager right in your face, you'll have the power to resist it. me, this weekend, i'm praying for temptation... and it ain't gonna be to thomas aquinas either. you know, the old franciscan annuals say he died of obesity. so all his definitions did him no good. i'd rather have the beer. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:16:34 -0400 From: Matthew Snyder Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) Ric - Your take on this tune is too simplistic. You are assuming that everybody reads the tabloids and knows everything that is written about what Jackson Browne may or may not have done. Well, I didn't and don't, and I loved this song without having known anything about this background you talk about, which, so far as I can see, you are projecting on it. She never mentions Jackson Browne in the song and until I heard others talking about it Browne never crossed my mind. But I don't have to defend Joni here, she did it far better herself in a 1994 radio interview, when she was asked about this: "That's ridiculous, this is so much of a bigger issue. For instance, 'six hundred thousand doctors are putting on rubber gloves and they're poking at the miseries made of love.' There was an ad that came in Newsweek, the AMA [American Medical Association] took a two-page ad. Now what does the AMA take a two-page ad for? They take it obviously to solicit business. This ad was very strange. One page there was a photograph of a doctor with a stethescope outside of an operating room with his head hung in sorrow, a very sorrowful posture. On the other side the copy said, it named a doctor that they kind insinuated was some kind of a genius, and his genius lay in the fact that so many battered women were appearing in emergency rooms, and they tended to cover it, they'd say 'oh, I fell down the stairs' you know, and he had some ingenius technique of deciphering whether they'd been battered or not, and he was teaching the medical corps this technique, and it just struck me as really strange because every woman I know is fed up with the AMA in particular. I have night blindness, just to give you an example, and if I say to a doctor I have night blindness they say 'oh, women don't get that.' I say, well, men make the statistics. My mother is color blind, and they say women aren't color blind either, well, she is. So women must be abandoning this system of medicine for alternative systems of medicine in droves. In other words, in order for them to make an ad like this appealing to women's sympathies, 'look how we are on your side, especially on this issue.' "In Canada there came to me a statistic in the newspaper. 50% of Canadian women admit now to being battered, women polled, I don't how they arranged the poll. 59% in the province of B.C., I live in B.C. There's a lot of unemployment there and a lot of alcoholism. So I made my own poll, and of 10 women polled around where I live, 9 of them were battered. I've never been a feminist, you know, I've hung with the boys all my life, I've been on the road with men and I like their company, I'm kind of an honorary male at this point. But I wonder what is happening in the heterosexual relationship at this time." The moral of the story: be very careful when trying to describe the motives of an artist, particularly Joni Mitchell. Matt Snyder msnyder@dragonfire.net http://msnyder.dragonfire.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Your Pet Deadly Sins - NJC - --- Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/00 2:10:13 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz > writes: > > << But as far as the heavenly virtues go, I'm REALLY > going to try and practice > temperance and prudence this weekend. My liver > will thank me, I'm sure! > >> > you know, thomas aquinas wrote about temperance and > continence. as far as i > can tell, teperance was about resisting ..general > all around temptation. > continence was about resisting ...in the heat of > passion, when the chips were > down, and the thing is is right there in your > face..kind of temptation I have to say, the deadly sins are a lot easier to understand than the virtues. Does anyone remember the song "The seven deadly virtues" from Camelot? It may have been just on the Broadway version and not in the movie. We had the soundtrack for it when I was a kid. It was Mordred singing and it went something like this: The seven deadly virtues, Those ghastly little traps, Oh no, my liege, they were not meant for me. Those seven deadly virtues Were made for other chaps Who love a life of failure and ennui. and so on... ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:00:50 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: [Fwd: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC)] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------C86FF25E14CD458FAA11ACB8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- forgot to forward this to the list. and yes i forgot to cut the bottom content out, sorry for those on digest... this is important to me. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - --------------C86FF25E14CD458FAA11ACB8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <395CCF76.B0D0BC7D@iprimus.ca> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:48:54 -0500 From: pat holden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) References: <7c.788c5a3.268d6e84@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you wrote: does she have a mean streak a mile wide, this woman? even if every word of it was true, to say it now, decades later, publically and towards no end, makes me just shake my head in amazement...quite the same way i would if jackson browne were to write a song, 30 years later, about some hippie chick who cared more for her career than she did for the daughter she left by the side of the road? and my gut response is: Ric, In my humble opinion, I dont find Joni's words mean at all, I would dare to venture a guess that shes telling it like it is for a lot of women with fist marks on their faces, hearts, souls. And it is my hope on this glorious morning that you dont really believe that she left Kilauren on the side of the road for her career. Relinquishing a baby for adoption is like being given a permanent visiting pass to hell and then some. Mags. RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > is that a valid designation up there listers? "sjc"? as in SOME joni > content? i don't want to get those impatient reminders from anyone about > the NJC. > > hey folks. my boss is in st. croix, ostensibly on business, (i get to go to > the trailerpark capitals of america, he goes to st. croix. hmmmm) so what > better time than to sit and think about joni's song from TI, "Not to Blame"? > you know this one - the one about (whispering) jackson browne! and yes, i > know, joni said it was just a composite and not meant to be "about" anyone > in particular...which, in my heretical opinion, undoes the expression that > "joni mitchell never lies..." this song is too about jackson browne, and if > she is going to assassinate him, she ought to admit to it. i assume her > denial is, somewhat understandably, based on a desire not to be sued for > slander, or libel - whichever term would apply. but clearly, the song is > about jackson > browne, and what i find so stunning about it is how cruel it is. how > supremely cruel. i cannot think of another song in all her body of work > that is like it. this is joni mitchell! thinking of her as intentionally > cruel is as difficult for me as it is to think of jackson browne as an abuser > of women. > > forget the public face he displays and all the "chariable acts", which are > many, and impressive. it is the lyrical content of his songs, and the sense > of him that is dervived from that body of work - work that is often every > bit as revealing and confessional as joni's - that makes it so hard to > perceive him as a man plagued with those kind of impulses. i just can't see > it. so joni's portrait of him doesn't add up. take a look at it with me. > > first of all, browne denies that he ever struck her. he says that had he > been accused by hannah to the LA cops of beating her, they > would not have left without arresting him. now we know that the LAPD are > celebrity struck. but why would they be any less impressed with hannah's > celebrity than browne's? secondly, hannah has never said, to my knowledge > anyway, that browne hit her. the damning part, of course, is that she has > not said he did NOT, but still, she has never said to anyone that browne > struck her. the tabloids did. the tabloids, and join mitchell. > > "the beauty, with your fist marks on her face." pretty damning. did it > provoke some moral outrage in joni that justified, in her heart and mind, > that 3rd verse? the one that goes off the charts for cruelty? > > now as most everyone knows, browne's first wife committed suicide, leaving him > with a young son to raise alone. a baby really. so consider what the > impact these lines must have on browne, hearing them sung by someone he was > once close to...thinking people hearing them now might believe them, or that > his son, the one whose mother this is about, might hear them sung: "his > mother had the frailty you despise, and the looks you love to drive to > suicide." wow. anyone who has EVER lost someone they loved to suicide, > knows that the guilt you feel as a survivor, justified or not, is enormous, > even overwhelming, and sometimes, > life changing. to have someone say that not only did you drive them to it, > but you enjoyed it, pretty much takes one's breath away. it is nothing short > of savage. does she have a mean streak a mile wide, this woman? even if > every word of it was true, to say it now, decades later, publically and > towards no end, makes me just shake my head in amazement...quite the same way > i would if jackson browne were to write a song, 30 years later, about some > hippie chick who cared more for her career than she did for the daughter she > left by the side of the road? > > the tone of this song is off. it doesn't seem like joni to me. and it sure > doesn't seem like jackson browne. > > interested in anyone else's thoughts. > > peace all, ric - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - --------------C86FF25E14CD458FAA11ACB8-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:57:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: We Met Joni!!! - --- AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Finishing up and on our way out, talking a mile a > minute, all of a sudden we > saw Joni, also on her way out. We had a brief > encounter, and she was very, > very gracious. Luckily, John's partner, Richard, had > a camera with him, and > all of us got a picture with Joni. We didn't have > much time with her, truly I > only had enough time to introduce myself and say > that I had traveled all the > way from Boston for this, but it was very special to > see the Lady in person. Get outta town! This is great! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:38:06 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Drivers Wanted (NJC) Hey Gang- Is there anyone from the Chicago area driving to Boston for JoniFest?? I have a very good limo driver/singer/songwriter/cuddly/all around nice guy that would like to hitch a ride (help drive to JoniFest) from the Chicago area. Any takers??? Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:02:50 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: The Mendel (NJC) Kakki wrote: "I second that emotion! Thank you Rick - it sounds like the magic has already started and there is lots more in store. I'm so seriously tempted to jump on a plane there tonight! Arrr ;-)" Kakki Dear will you swing by my place on your way and pick me up. We can be at the hotel in Saskatoon by martini time and then have a late supper. And after the Mendel walk/crawl over several bridges and......and.... Michael (running to find my floppy hat) P.S. WAY TO GO RICK!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:47:24 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: PazFest Steve wrote: ") You almost gave me a friggin' heart attack when I thought I read : PAZ FEST TO BE BROADCAST OVER THE INTERNET.... Don't ever do that again!!! (unless if course it's really happening...) Obviously too tired this morning to read," Steve This is STILL a very good possibility that an edited version could make it online. WWOZ is one of my sponsors and will help me promote the record when it comes out. One of the ideas is to do a release party with some live joni stuff and show some of that show as well. For everyone who has been hinting, asking, pleading, threatening, me about tapes, everything will have to be remixed for release. I will start editing Sunday night. This will be a long process to do this right so PLEASE be patient, it will be worth the wait. I will be talking to Joni Mgmt next week after the get the Mendel under their belts. Speaking of which, BEST WISHES TO ALL THE MENDEL BUNCH!!! Later, Paz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:14:30 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: We Met Joni!!! << We didn't have much time with her, truly I only had enough time to introduce myself and say that I had traveled all the way from Boston for this, but it was very special to see the Lady in person. >> WHOO-HOO! Yet another JMDL'er with 0 degrees of separation! (And it couldn't have happened to a nicer one). Hope it's the first of many Joni encounters to come! PS: Happy B-day to you Jimmy you ice-skating rascal! :-) Bob NP: "Heard it Through the Grapevine" Joni Detroit '83 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:17:08 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: today IS the day njc but read In a message dated 6/30/2000 4:39:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << EVERYBODY RISE TO SALUTE THE FUNNIEST, HANDSOMEST, BALDIEST HOT DADDY ON THE jmdl: LET'S HEAR IT FOR JIMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ON HIS [FILL IN THE BLANK]TH BIRTHDAY. >> Which Jimmy??? Is it L'amado or Jimmy in FL? Happy Birthdya to everyone!!! We all have one someday! Hugs, Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:18:25 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) In a message dated 6/30/00 11:23:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, msnyder@dragonfire.net writes: << The moral of the story: be very careful when trying to describe the motives of an artist, particularly Joni Mitchell. >> matt, i'm just not able to dismiss the song's closeness to the jackson brown story. i think it is exactly about jackson brown and i think she lied about it. but i also think she lied about a boom boom pachyderm being a drum solo. even jackson brown thinks the song is about him! pat np. the reoccurring dream ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:24:11 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Just like this train ? In a message dated 6/30/2000 8:39:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << Though I love the song, I've always thought "Watching your hairline recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower lines. Jerry >> Well guess what? I think she is pissed at this guy. What a great one liner if you ask me. Most men are very sensitive about their hair so when a woman says something like that...trust me she is PISSED!!! Catgirl (not me mind you I would never sya anything like that trust me!! ;) ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:32:30 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: The Mendel (NJC) In a message dated 6/30/2000 12:23:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Kakki Dear will you swing by my place on your way and pick me up. We can be at the hotel in Saskatoon by martini time and then have a late supper. And after the Mendel walk/crawl over several bridges and......and.... >> Pick me up too!!! I am definately going this summer. NOTHING will STOP me!! Even if she isn't there she was and her art has been a treasure to me. I am planning on going in August if anyone else wants to tag along. Just when you think life can't better..it does! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:34:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: today IS the day njc but read - --- CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > Happy Birthdya to everyone!!! > We all have one someday! > Hugs, > Catgirl This is one of those days where everything someone says invokes a song lyric of some kind... "You know I wasn't born I was spat out at a wall And nobody even knew my name The sun hatched me out, cradle and all On the corner of First and Insane" Shawn Colvin, Suicide Alley ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:36:07 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Drivers Wanted (NJC) In a message dated 6/30/2000 12:27:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Hey Gang- Is there anyone from the Chicago area driving to Boston for JoniFest?? I have a very good limo driver/singer/songwriter/cuddly/all around nice guy that would like to hitch a ride (help drive to JoniFest) from the Chicago area. Any takers??? Love Paz >> I live in PA and won't be going to Boston until late Friday night so the Magic bus is a bust. I will be there on Saturday. The only reason why I am going is that I told Les that if Michael and Kakki go then I will go too. This is really pushing it for vacation time but I love you guys and you only live once so ya just got to go with the flow. For The Roses Full Show here we come!!! Catgirl whoo-hoo....I will do "You Turn Me On..I'm a radio" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians Happy Canada Day to all Canadians and Happy 4th of July to those in the US. I am SO looking forward to a loooooooong weekend and hope the weather will stay sunny as it is today - I don't know about the rest of the world, or even the rest of the continent, but so far this spring and summer, we've had so much rain, it's unbelievable! At least it will save on watering the garden. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:09:06 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Ms. Cat wrote: > Jerry > >> > Well guess what? I think she is pissed at this guy. What a great one liner > if you ask me. Most men are very sensitive about their hair so when a woman > says something like that...trust me she is PISSED!!! > Catgirl (not me mind you I would never sya anything like that trust me!! ;) > ) and ms. mags says yeppers, I'd agree to this read. :) - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:12:02 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians Catherine McKay wrote: > Happy Canada Day to all Canadians and Happy 4th of > July to those in the US. > > I am SO looking forward to a loooooooong weekend and > hope the weather will stay sunny as it is today - I > don't know about the rest of the world, or even the > rest of the continent, but so far this spring and > summer, we've had so much rain, it's unbelievable! At > least it will save on watering the garden. and mags kind of out of breath writes: all the rain makes for cleaner air and for the gardens and grass to just BURST..its gorgeous out there, just got back from a run....woohooo yea endorphin rush err I mean gee i like running. *snicker* hehe mags........................ <-------leaving a trail of magic dust behind ;) > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:18:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians NJC for all those cranky types - --- pat holden wrote: > Catherine McKay wrote: > >mags kind of out of breath writes: > > all the rain makes for cleaner air and for the > gardens and > grass to just BURST.. ... which increases the molds and grass pollen and other spores to which I am allergic but also keeps some of the pollen low to the ground too, which is a good thing. >its gorgeous out there, just > got back > from a run....woohooo yea endorphin rush err I mean > gee i > like running. *snicker* You gotta love those endorphins, and never be ashamed to admit it, but I hate running! Never could get into that - all that asphalt pounding at your feet, all that stress on the joints, all that smog getting sucked into your lungs (there's a reason why some people call Toronto "the big smoke"). Now, I could go for a nice bicycle ride (if I can get off my fat ass long enough to make it to the garage, and hoping the tires haven't gone flat since the last time I used it, necessitating a trip to the nearest gas station, home of an air pump and PsychoDog, a pitbull who belongs to the mechanic there, a dog who seems friendly enough but who likes chewing on feet, and you just don't want to get into a tug-of-war with a pitbull, friendly or not, especially when said mechanic, like a benign but negligent parent, seems totally oblivous to what his beloved poochy is chewing on. Cripes, now I'm not only out of breath from a too-long sentence, but now I've scared myself too much to even THINK about going near my bike!) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:31:45 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) i am with mags on this one. one thing that irritates me about some comments on this list is how often people presume to "know" what a song was about, who Joni Mitchell is as person, what she went through when she gave up a child, what she thinks about certain political topics... it is really quite arrogant. as much as we all want to, none of us will ever know what she was really thinking when she wrote that song or any other. it's part of the mystery. it's part of the personal interpretation. if she wants to say it's not about browne, then it's not about browne. except in your head, and that is certainly your prerogative. saying that joni mitchell is cruel for writing a song about a situation that she appears to be disgusted by (and rightfully so), is ludicrous. "well, jackson denied ever hitting hannah, and he does charity work and writes sensitive songs, so it can't be true." this is the kind of thinking that has facilitated and encouraged and enabled hundreds of thousands of men to continue the brutality that is not just physical--but far more psychological and emotional. it is an outrage that anyone in this day and age would use this kind of logic to justify the brutality. it obviously upsets me. if you think joni is cruel, pal, spend a day at the YWCA with the dozens of women and children who were brave enough to leave these types of situations. then you will understand what cruelty is. my radical feminist 2¢, alison e. in slc np: tracy chapman, "nothing yet" - ---------- >From: RickieLee1@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) >Date: Thu, Jun 29, 2000, 9:31 PM > >is that a valid designation up there listers? "sjc"? as in SOME joni >content? i don't want to get those impatient reminders from anyone about >the NJC. > >hey folks. my boss is in st. croix, ostensibly on business, (i get to go to >the trailerpark capitals of america, he goes to st. croix. hmmmm) so what >better time than to sit and think about joni's song from TI, "Not to Blame"? >you know this one - the one about (whispering) jackson browne! and yes, i >know, joni said it was just a composite and not meant to be "about" anyone >in particular...which, in my heretical opinion, undoes the expression that >"joni mitchell never lies..." this song is too about jackson browne, and if >she is going to assassinate him, she ought to admit to it. i assume her >denial is, somewhat understandably, based on a desire not to be sued for >slander, or libel - whichever term would apply. but clearly, the song is >about jackson >browne, and what i find so stunning about it is how cruel it is. how >supremely cruel. i cannot think of another song in all her body of work >that is like it. this is joni mitchell! thinking of her as intentionally >cruel is as difficult for me as it is to think of jackson browne as an abuser >of women. > >forget the public face he displays and all the "chariable acts", which are >many, and impressive. it is the lyrical content of his songs, and the sense >of him that is dervived from that body of work - work that is often every >bit as revealing and confessional as joni's - that makes it so hard to >perceive him as a man plagued with those kind of impulses. i just can't see >it. so joni's portrait of him doesn't add up. take a look at it with me. > >first of all, browne denies that he ever struck her. he says that had he >been accused by hannah to the LA cops of beating her, they >would not have left without arresting him. now we know that the LAPD are >celebrity struck. but why would they be any less impressed with hannah's >celebrity than browne's? secondly, hannah has never said, to my knowledge >anyway, that browne hit her. the damning part, of course, is that she has >not said he did NOT, but still, she has never said to anyone that browne >struck her. the tabloids did. the tabloids, and join mitchell. > >"the beauty, with your fist marks on her face." pretty damning. did it >provoke some moral outrage in joni that justified, in her heart and mind, >that 3rd verse? the one that goes off the charts for cruelty? > >now as most everyone knows, browne's first wife committed suicide, leaving him >with a young son to raise alone. a baby really. so consider what the >impact these lines must have on browne, hearing them sung by someone he was >once close to...thinking people hearing them now might believe them, or that >his son, the one whose mother this is about, might hear them sung: "his >mother had the frailty you despise, and the looks you love to drive to >suicide." wow. anyone who has EVER lost someone they loved to suicide, >knows that the guilt you feel as a survivor, justified or not, is enormous, >even overwhelming, and sometimes, >life changing. to have someone say that not only did you drive them to it, >but you enjoyed it, pretty much takes one's breath away. it is nothing short >of savage. does she have a mean streak a mile wide, this woman? even if >every word of it was true, to say it now, decades later, publically and >towards no end, makes me just shake my head in amazement...quite the same way >i would if jackson browne were to write a song, 30 years later, about some >hippie chick who cared more for her career than she did for the daughter she >left by the side of the road? > >the tone of this song is off. it doesn't seem like joni to me. and it sure >doesn't seem like jackson browne. > >interested in anyone else's thoughts. > >peace all, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Just like this train ? - --- CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/2000 8:39:39 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > > << Though I love the song, I've always thought > "Watching your hairline > recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower > lines. > > Jerry > >> > Well guess what? I think she is pissed at this guy. > What a great one liner > if you ask me. Most men are very sensitive about > their hair so when a woman > says something like that...trust me she is PISSED!!! > Catgirl (not me mind you I would never sya anything > like that trust me!! ;) > ) C'mon, pissed? She's just teasing him. I think she means it in a very loving way, like someone who intends to be around for the duration and she's going to love him with or without hair! If she had said, "Watching your waistline expand, my fat-assed darling", that might be another story! Hee-hee. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:35:09 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: We Met Joni!!! i am so happy for you guys! and insanely jealous of course! i hope you are having a fabulous time, and i look forward to all the pics. take care, alison e. in slc. - ---------- >From: AsharaJM@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: We Met Joni!!! >Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000, 8:59 AM > >Arrived in Saskatoon yesterday afternoon. Our hotel, the Bessborough, is >Today we are all meeting for lunch, and then on to the Mendel for the >opening. More to follow soon! > >Hugs, >Ashara > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:29:42 -0400 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: (VLJC) Newbie on board! I do so agree with Bob here: >As far as my personal faves, I think the Hissing - Hejira - Don Juan combo is the best threepeat in recording history! > I've been listening to Don Juan's Reckless Daughter a lot lately and am AGAIN staggered by it. Hejira is still number one for me, but DJRD is moving in. Hissing is another favorite. AND now... I have to add Mingus.... which I really just "got" last winter with a little help from the JMDL. Shadows and Light kinda ties all that together beautifully, IMO Linda np. the droning of summer lawnmowers. Time to tune out that HUM and put on some Joni! Wishing all the folks in Saskatoon a magical day!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:32:03 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: BSN programs In my crazy hustling around in the past month, I forgot to mention to the list that I have TONS of BSN programs that I picked up in Boston for any listers that did not have a chance to get one either at a concert or from another lister. Brian Gross had a great idea, of how to send a blank envelope with postage that was real easy, so Brian, if you are reading this, maybe you can send that information along with my address: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 If you don't have a program, and would like one, PLEASE send for one. I picked them up for all of YOU, and would like to get them out to everyone that wants one. Your roving hugging reporter, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:02:50 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians NJC for all those cranky types > > catherine close by me wrote: > .. which increases the molds and grass pollen and > other spores to which I am allergic but also > keeps some of the pollen low to the ground too, which > is a good thing. hey girl, i know all about those moldie mugs getting into your pores and all and I also know full well that running is hard and its not for everyone. Ive always been a runner , my whole life in fact. It is a spirit thing. I love to run for the sheer joy of it. And yea, the endorphins give a kind of funky high, but its much more than that. It is essential to my being as is my best friend and Joni. Thats the deal ;) > <<< only out of breath from a too-long sentence, but now > I've scared myself too much to even THINK about going > near my bike!)>>>>. your humour continues to make me laugh out loud. Must be a canadienne thang ;) mags > > > ===== > Catherine (in Toronto) > catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:32:02 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: COOL NEWS!!!!! Before I left Boston, I received an e-mail saying that the Canadian Broadcast Company, (CBC) wanted to interview people that had come from a long distance for this opening. They asked if I would be willing to go on "live" (YIKES!!) radio, and give my thoughts about the exhibit. Of course I said yes, and I was contacted yesterday when I got to Saskatoon. The really cool news is that the program will be aired live on the internet on Monday morning, starting at 7:15 AM Saskatoon time, (which I believe is the same as Central time in the US, but you'd better check to be sure) so, any of you that would like to hear it, can just tune in via the internet!! I just think that is SO cool!! At 7:15 AM, their Arts reporter will talk about his views of the exhibit, and at 8:40 AM, I will be interviewed along with Rick Hobbs (Angelino Coyote) and I think some others. Of course, if anyone has a chance to tape it, that would be awesome! Reporting live from Saskatoon with hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:47:32 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Some surrealist invented this fourth of July Hi all, Before I leave for a long overdue four day break, I thought I'd pose a topic for discussion. Ever since Tuesday, I've been walking around singing "Night Ride Home." You know, the lines that end with the fourth of July. It occurred to me that it happens every year at this time -- the same song. And "River" at Christmas, and other songs at certain times of the year or on specific dates. I always sing "Twisted" on my ex-girlfriend's birthday, too, but that's more an issue for modern psychology than for this list. I named my daughter Savannah, with a more than indirect inspiration from "Blue Motel Room," and sometimes that line with her name in it pops into mind when I think of her in a certain way. Does anyone else do this, or is it because I'm certifiably insane? I sing to myself nonstop, as a rule, but some songs follow a distinct pattern. So here's a new thread topic... Any special Joni songs that you catch yourself singing when you do an activity, celebrate a date, see a certain person, etc? Harpy Independence Day to everyone (Brits may decline if you so choose)! Harper Lou Postscript question -- I'm on a bit of a vacation, with very few gigs in July. The burnout caught up with me, so I decided that maybe I should take a day off every six years or so. A Tarot reader friend told me that I need to start asserting more of what I really want out of life, instead of trying to please others and committing to every request made of me. She's right. So, I need to know if Joni is officially divorced from Larry Klein. If so, I ASSERT that I would like to run off and marry her and live happily ever after. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. If anyone is in touch with Joni Mitchell directly, please mention that I have a new Astro van and I'm a "pretty good cook." Thanks! HL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:48:48 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Joni And Jackson Hello All! I'm not one to promote rumours or encourage them, but I have a story to share. In 1976 I became friends with a woman who was a very devoted Joni fan. We talked and shared (and sang) all things Joni. One day, during one of our usual stimulating conversations, she asked me if I had ever heard about a fist-fight that she and Jackson had on their tour together. I didn't believe it, but she went on swearing she had read it somewhere- and that it happened on-stage (not during the performance) and this was reportedly 'reported' by a stage hand. What really bothered me about this whole incident of her asking this, was that the woman worked for the city paper, and always had tidbits of news -(and promo stuff; we got Joni pics and books)- that never made it to print. So for years, I have been wondering if this is true and what the REAL story is-(maybe JM punched him in the arm jokingly, and now we have a fist-fight! LOL) So it goes... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:55:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: So long for a bit ... See you good folks the week of July 10. I'm on vacation away from the pc til then. Don't you dare get Joni herself hooked up from Saskatoon, or anywhere else via laptop in m absence! ;-D Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #363 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?