From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #343 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 20 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 343 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- catman ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: www.rollingstone.com.... (NJC) ["Kakki" ] [Fwd: Mitchell's Canadian voice NJC] [pat holden ] Re: Kathie Lee does a woman NJC (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Jaco, Joni, & the cocaine apex [B Merrill ] Levittown, & NJC [B Merrill ] Re: Kathie Lee does Joni ["Joni Fan" ] UK jonifest - Down In The Cellar ["ALCHEMYMULTIMEDIA.COM" ] kathie lee and kenny g [PFallo@aol.com] Re: kathie lee and kenny g ["Joni Fan" ] Re: Mitchell's Canadian voice AND lots of JM trivia, eh.. [Catherine McKa] FW: Talkin bout this generation (www.rollingstone.com) [Louis Lynch ] Re: Kathie Lee does Joni [Catherine McKay ] Re: Kathie Lee does a woman who's name mustn't be put at the same sentence [SMEBD@aol.] Re: Kathie Lee does a woman [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: joni and judy ["P. Henry" ] Re: More on KL [Catherine McKay ] Re: Kathie Lee does a woman who's name mustn't be put at the same sentence [Catherine McKay ] Tunings (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: FW: Talkin bout this generation (www.rollingstone.com) ["Joni Fan" ] (NJC)Harper Lou's Blues ["Susan" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:40:37 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: catman no need to tell me that catman is NJC but i had to use this list to reach you all. is everything alright with catman? he's not in some "2 grey rooms" case i hope so just tell me he's ok. thanks. and since i owe you a JC - i saw joni's photo from highschool - thank you who ever you are it's been a day overloaded with names for me so i'm sorry you know your name so thank y o u so much for the link - and i was frozen glued to the screen i'm was never interested in photos of joni but those joni's chosen herself for the world's eyes to see - but our friend - thanks again i'll tell why it's one big thank you from me - he sure knew what bate to use - so i got there - and saw her - and yes it's the hair sure it's the hair but the only thing i could think about was the way she looks on her debut so i cried for her don't ask me why i know it's a story of a whole generation - hey but she came to city and then out oh it's tears here now so i'm going to hell and say hi to catman. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:35:08 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: www.rollingstone.com.... (NJC) David, you wrote: > But does this prove that people aren't civilized *anymore*? >Could it be that they never were civilized (or rather, some of >them weren't), but we just didn't have such an easy way of >finding that out until the internet came along? (And, of >course, there are good discussion lists and newsgroups on >the internet, and there are bad.) I agree that we get all the bad news in so much larger doses and more instantaneously than in the past. And I think some of us have a difficult time sometimes trying to absorb it all. Some choose to tune it out, some are completely apathetic, some get all fueled up and unfortunately, fall right into the mob mentality of it all, and a few like Loree and Lou choose to cry out in the wilderness at the insanity of it all sometimes. >Do we know that? He and Marianne Faithfull sure did a lot of >drugs together. And how about (since you used Jagger as >an example) Altamont and the role the Stones played in >allowing that to happen? At least most all of the "Altamont" generation were completely horrified and appalled by what happened and still voice that opinion to this day. They don't say "well, that's just the way it has always been". >Rather it's that flirting with amorality is not a new thing, and >that flirting with amorality has never meant that morality and > social conscience are dead -- I don't think things really >change as much as all that. I bet there have always been >people in previous generations who didn't recognize "some >sense of human value," and there have also always been > and continue to be far more people who have moral >standards and deal with moral issues. It's not fair, or >accurate, for you to assume that the entire latest generation >is like your drummer friend. I don't think Lou believes the entire latest generation is like that. What I get from his post (and I share many of the same feelings) is that it's gone beyond just "flirting with amorality" - there seems to be a lot of mainstream amorality at all generational levels. I see examples every day that amaze me and while one could say "well, you live in that big bad hellhole L.A." but it seems to be happening everywhere. We had our very first riots here tonight over a sporting event, for God's sake. Yeah, I've seen people rioting in other towns or countries on TV after a home team's big win, but this is actually a first for L.A. About five hours of looting, vandalism, car theft, and starting fires in historic buildings right in my neighborhood. A big mob orgy. The sirens have been screaming non-stop for hours. All "inspired" by the Lakers winning the championship. Something is definitely out of balance. I think it's O.K. for people to lament that sometimes. But this is not to say that I don't also respect your opinions, David. You also shine a light in the darkness. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:02:34 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: [Fwd: Mitchell's Canadian voice NJC] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------9A8D38919E20E0B89CB45D27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops forgot to forward this to the list too... - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - --------------9A8D38919E20E0B89CB45D27 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <394F5D07.BF36B421@iprimus.ca> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:01:11 -0500 From: pat holden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Mitchell's Canadian voice NJC References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000619133332.00b76b40@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Ron wrote: > > << conversations in progress. I feel a bit like an outsider (a typical JM > listener?), in part because I am Canadian. I must adjust to the American > perspective and perhaps the American personality if I am to participate in > this.>>>> > > Ron, I am also a Canadian (oh no I hear that Molson beer commercial in my head..I AM A CANADIAN....) first of all I would like to take this opportunity to welcome you to the list. I can assure you that after spending three months here, the borders melt away as Ive become part of this whole and wonderful Joni family which is about as diverse as possible. Joni people are from all over the world! Everyone, including my American friends have made me feel right at home from day one. You will find lots of love and warmth and varying opinions, but mostly you will find kindred spirits who share a genuine love and passion for Joni and all that is Joni. That is afterall, what brought us to 'here' in the first place. welcome to the garden. The Americans declared peace a long time ago :) Mags > > > - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - --------------9A8D38919E20E0B89CB45D27-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:41:23 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does a woman NJC (md) In a message dated 6/19/2000 9:15:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << << Can you imagine an over-animated, self-indulgent, medium-talent singer that would really not do well as a lounge singer if she were not well known (at least in the States)? > >> Yeah.....Yoko Ono. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:42:12 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Jaco, Joni, & the cocaine apex I've been reading _Jaco_ by Bill Milnowski. The relevant coincidence (for us Joni fans) is that the point where he is "hanging" and touring with Joni, 1976-7, happens to be both the point where his life goes through this disastrous turnaround, and Jaco shifts from being emphatically straight to emphatically druggy, and also (not coincidentally) at the cocaine apex when "everybody" (in the hip US music world) was tooting away like their was no tomorrow. Michael Brecker talks about how coked out their JM tour was: "It was just a symptom of the times-- everybody was doing cocaine then." (See 88-92) Jaco was such a phenomenal musician (the most creative & extraordinary musician that Joni has worked with?)... and this is appalling tragedy, the way in which he fell apart... ending up on the streets, and finally killed. "...plenty of lines, but nothing to say..." Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:43:33 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Levittown, & NJC Thank you for your architectural acuity, Patricia. >The houses are the same, and rigidly so. My acquaintance with Levittown is a aerial shot of a typical street, wherein the houses were identical, where there was none of this juggling or flipping of basic floor plans that you note on the HOSL cover. And the houses were also completely symmetric, with the doors set in the middle. It looked like military housing... In other words, compared to Levittown, the bank of houses that we find is HOSL positively charming. Tho not as charming as Joni's hideaway, of course. >> And would you like to resume our argument? > >Maybe later. I remain at your service, Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:50:22 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does Joni >Look! Now you're doing it! Kathie Lee and Hejeira in the same sentence. >Maybe >we all need some time for this horrific news to settle before we can find >the >strength to go on... Oh, forgive me . . . what was I thinking! > >But maybe, if she put her own life to the "Circle Game" tune, it wouldn't >be >so bad. How about: > > Yesterday my spouse went out to wander > Met a stewardess inside a bar... > > --Bob Now that is funny! Let's see the rest of it is something like: 16 seasons went by; Regis and I were still talkin The songs I sang got worse by every year ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:42:08 +0100 From: "ALCHEMYMULTIMEDIA.COM" Subject: UK jonifest - Down In The Cellar Hello everyone I've been off the list for about seven weeks, missing my daily fix of Jonichat. I missed all the Joni concerts and reviews, and all the chat about the New Orleans, :-( ..... but I'm back now! :-) I was changing jobs and am now working in the heart of London's West End. (Which is nice). While I was off list, I have finally managed to complete the production of the CD, recorded on January 4th at the Troubadour in Earls Court. Raffaele put a call out to anyone who would like a copy a couple of weeks ago so that I could guage how many to make. Now that they are ready, anyone who would like a copy, please send me ?5.50 (cheque if you are in the UK, cash in ? Sterling if not), and give me your full address. I will post you your CD by return. The CDs make a wonderful souvenir of the evening we had, with Jamie Zubairi, Marian Russell and Chris Marshall playing all evening for us. Raff did some very professional artwork for us also. It's a double CD in a 'Brilliant' (single CD) case, and the price includes postage and packing. Please be assured that I am making no money out of this. The price reflects the cost of production. atb, Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Tue Jun 20 08:46:45 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: More on KL Just a couple of KL notes... I forget if Moondance was on that CD or not - Stephen sent me the entire CD and begged me not to return it! :~) I'll check if I still have it, I might have already donated it to my public library... Anybody else remember when Kathie Lee was on "Name That Tune" with host Tom Kennedy? She was the one who would sing the line or whatever...that was a long time ago, who'da thunk that she would become a household word. For those of you brave enough to take on Volume 4, you'll soon discover that KL's cover is not NEARLY as awful as some of these others. The version of CG she does is cloyingly sweet sounding (you just look all around for Disney animals to come dancing out of the sky), but there are others that are really rancid. (And no, there's not a Rancid cover on the disc). Bob NP: Jim Nabors, "BSN" (Yuck!):~) PS: Jim, I LOVED the Bizarro Superman and all those Bizarro issues! ------------------------------ Date: Tue Jun 20 08:50:00 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: UK jonifest - Down In The Cellar <> Martin, Thanks for all your hard work! I'm looking forward to hearing it! Bob NP: The Tokens, "BSN" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:14:27 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: catman In a message dated 6/20/00 4:48:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wittadi@hotmail.com writes: << is everything alright with catman? >> i think he went off list after the facist thread. may be lurining on digest, but you know, you can never really know where a good cat stalks... pat n.p. richard thompson- SHOOT out the lights ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:25:32 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: More on KL I hoped *someone* would remember the Bizarro World, and I might have guessed it'd be you, Bob. You're a pop culture sponge! :-) (I say that with admiration and empathy.) "Boston Jim" >Bob >PS: Jim, I LOVED the Bizarro Superman and all those Bizarro issues! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:29:14 EDT From: PFallo@aol.com Subject: kathie lee and kenny g when's the kathie lee & kenny g duo album coming out? at least she doesn't overdub herself singing on top of joni. and van the man too! will the desecration ever end! somebody do SOMETHING! LOOK IT'S A BIRD, IT'S A PLANE ... IT'S SUPER PAT! who disguised as a mild, mannered jazz guitarist pat metheny, fights a never ending battle ... phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:02:41 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: kathie lee and kenny g >when's the kathie lee & kenny g duo album coming out? at least she doesn't >overdub herself singing on top of joni. and van the man too! will the >desecration ever end! >somebody do SOMETHING! Oh God . . . now this thread is getting very frightening. No overdubbing over Joni and Van . . . no, no, no, no. But you know, Phil, I will send your suggestion to KL for her to pair up with Kenny G . . . I'll ask her to send you a signed copy. :) Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Mitchell's Canadian voice AND lots of JM trivia, eh.. > mariko sano > < I feel a bit like an outsider (a typical JM > listener?), in part because I am Canadian. I must > adjust to the American > perspective and perhaps the American personality if > I am to participate in > this.> Jimmy - FMYFL@aol.com wrote back: > Hi Ron and welcome to the JMDL. We have lots of > wonderful people on this > list who are Canadian, so please be yourself and > don't adjust a thing. And I say... Ahem. As another Canadian, I have to agree with (was it Bob?) who said "You don't need to be Canadian..." Much of what Joni writes about, while perhaps somewhat from the aspect of a "foreigner" observing America, is also *as* an American. She often writes as if she were herself American and, given the length of time she has lived there, no surprise. However, it's not *just* American - Canadians and Americans are different but in many ways we are alike. Americans tend to be all "rah-rah, the flag; my country right or wrong" and Canadians are much more laid-back about it. Still, we're all members of an extremely consumer-driven society. We're all subjected to similar, if not identical, advertising exhorting us to be someone "better" (if only we buy the right products an so on). We watch the same crappy television shows. Yes, I hear the Canadian voice in Joni's music, and yet... I don't. I think anyone who is as keenly observant as she, transcends nationality. Anyone that observant has to be a bit of an "outsider". You can be gung-ho American (or any other nationality for that matter) and still be the outsider observing the society in which you live for all that is good and bad about it. Yes, she still has the accent, (literally) - it's just one of her more endearing qualities. She has a lot to say and I believe she would say it no matter what nationality she was (although I suppose we in Canada and the USA may feel a little less bound by traditions that might be prevalent outside these 2 countries. Maybe because of that, we have greater freedom to say what we think?) I didn't fall in love with Joni and her words and music *because* she's Canadian, but, like the Canadian I am, it does add a little more icing to the cake. ;) > As to your second post in which you wrote: > > < I don't want to dictate tastes > and pleasures; I only look forward to communicating > with others about Joni > Mitchell's work.> > > You probably need to join the Joni Only list. It > was created for people just > like yourself, who only want to read about Joni > Mitchell and her work. > Occasionally other posts may slip through the > cracks, so just be patient with > us if it happens. In the meantime, switch to the > other list and we'll all > enjoy reading what you have to say about Joni and > her work. Ron, I've got to agree with Jimmy here. Many of us like to yak a lot and, if you want the only-Joni content, you may find it frustrating at times. Geez, the things we talk about here - from the sublime to the ridiculous, but never a dull moment! (Joni herself is quite the yakker, you know, so we all fit in!) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:06:54 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: FW: Talkin bout this generation (www.rollingstone.com) > Thanks for responding to my spiel, all, > > I suppose my frustration with the nastiness on the rollingstone site was > spurred by learning about some musician "friends" recording the screams of > an anguished dog and thinking it was way cool. > > Believe me, I don't think that the whole new generation is lost. There > are some shining examples of young people out there. And, Marcel makes a > very good point that there are quite a few older folks who don't have good > morals. And of course, professional wrestling attracts people of all > ages. My own period of musical specialty, the Renaissance wasn't known > for its humanity toward other humanity. > > The nastiness is probaby just one of the darker sides of human nature and > the new world of Internet exposure just puts it more "in your face." > > I do mourn what seems to be a general loss of courtesy and respect toward > other people. Perhaps due to the prevailing messages of the punks and > nihilists and the rockers, or perhaps due to greed and selfishness and > pressure, or perhaps the "wrath has finally taken form." Whatever the > cause, I wrote to share a general observation of a degradation of social > standards. I recognize that I'm a bit of an idealist and that my parents > are immigrants from Europe, so I might have an old-fashioned outlook to > begin with. > > David Wright made me laugh when he suggested that I exaggerate every time > I write. David, I've been exaggerating every second of every day for over > a hundred million years now, so I'm probably never going to stop. > > I have always been a bit of a thought provoker and iconoclast. Although I > know I'm not in Joni's league as a writer, I do respect that she says > things that are incredibly outspoken, sometimes even harsh and > exaggerated. For example, discussing the feeling in traffic in Sex Kills, > she writes "everyone hates everyone." Our Ms. Mitchell is not exactly a > wallflower when it comes to expressing strong opinions strongly. > > There is reason for hope, I know, and I insist on believing that people > are inherently good. The evil ones just seem to be making more noise > these days. And, alas, I play such a quiet instrument! > > Harper Lou > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:12:27 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Talkin bout this generation (www.rollingstone.com) Harper! Speaking of Rennaisaance: I have a friend who organizes "Renn Faires" here in Vermont. She just finished one last week - end and is planning next years. Would you like to connect with her? Harp! What a wonder! Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Louis > Lynch > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 10:07 AM > To: 'joni@smoe.org' > Subject: FW: Talkin bout this generation (www.rollingstone.com) > > > > Thanks for responding to my spiel, all, > > > > I suppose my frustration with the nastiness on the rollingstone site was > > spurred by learning about some musician "friends" recording the > screams of > > an anguished dog and thinking it was way cool. > > > > Believe me, I don't think that the whole new generation is lost. There > > are some shining examples of young people out there. And, > Marcel makes a > > very good point that there are quite a few older folks who > don't have good > > morals. And of course, professional wrestling attracts people of all > > ages. My own period of musical specialty, the Renaissance wasn't known > > for its humanity toward other humanity. > > > > The nastiness is probaby just one of the darker sides of human > nature and > > the new world of Internet exposure just puts it more "in your face." > > > > I do mourn what seems to be a general loss of courtesy and > respect toward > > other people. Perhaps due to the prevailing messages of the punks and > > nihilists and the rockers, or perhaps due to greed and selfishness and > > pressure, or perhaps the "wrath has finally taken form." Whatever the > > cause, I wrote to share a general observation of a degradation of social > > standards. I recognize that I'm a bit of an idealist and that > my parents > > are immigrants from Europe, so I might have an old-fashioned outlook to > > begin with. > > > > David Wright made me laugh when he suggested that I exaggerate > every time > > I write. David, I've been exaggerating every second of every > day for over > > a hundred million years now, so I'm probably never going to stop. > > > > I have always been a bit of a thought provoker and iconoclast. > Although I > > know I'm not in Joni's league as a writer, I do respect that she says > > things that are incredibly outspoken, sometimes even harsh and > > exaggerated. For example, discussing the feeling in traffic in > Sex Kills, > > she writes "everyone hates everyone." Our Ms. Mitchell is not exactly a > > wallflower when it comes to expressing strong opinions strongly. > > > > There is reason for hope, I know, and I insist on believing that people > > are inherently good. The evil ones just seem to be making more noise > > these days. And, alas, I play such a quiet instrument! > > > > Harper Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:38:03 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: Work PLace/Lyric (LJC) > Q: It occurred to me today that my place of employment is mentioned in a > Joni Mitchell lyric. Where do I work? > > The first person to guess correctly wins a can of bugspray. > > Nickel Chief > Might that be "Barangrill" - oh but you said a lyric I guess it might not also be the title! Come to think of it could be an airport a train, carnival, train station, radio station - oh come on! Be a little more specific ... please. Peace Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:41:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does Joni - --- Kakki wrote: > Boston James wrote: > > > I heard Kathie Lee also skewers Van Morrison's > >Moondance" on this new CD. > > No, no, no, no, no!! I seriously had a physical > sensation of revulsion when > I read this much more than hearing she's doing a > Joni tune. Arrrgggghhhhh! This is more cheese than even a mouse could stand! No one is so evil as to deserve this - God save us all! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:47:38 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does a woman who's name mustn't be put at the same sentence In a message dated 6/20/00 12:01:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, joni_reigns@hotmail.com writes: << But I would NEVER buy her CD . . . >> I bought her CD . . . and sent it to BOB!!!!!! Stephen :-D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:50:10 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does a woman In a message dated 6/20/00 12:20:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: << Jesus, Mary and Joseph, as my grandmother would have said, Kathie Lee has a discussion list!? >> Yes, and it is comprised of Jesus, Mary and Joseph--you'd have to be a saint to listen to the CD Stephen :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:51:58 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: joni and judy (this was written regarding the accompanying text to the LIFE mag pic of Joni and Judy in the tree house at Big Sur that Rick posted to Catgirl's list. if anyone didn't see it and would like a copy, as it has some historical significance to Joni's career, just write me and I'll email you a copy) Rick wrote: >Hi Pat There is nothing in the Judy Collins article about Joni at all. The caption from the tree house picture reads: "In a tree house outside Joni Mitchell's home in Laurel Canyon, Los Angeles, Judy swaps songs with Joni, her good friend as well as a fellow singer and songwriter. It was Joni who wrote "Both Sides Now". Rick> Thanks Rick. That's pretty much what I thought... It is as I said: this one pic and caption did more to launch Joni's career nationally than probably anything except Judy's recording of BSN itself! I mean, ya gotta hand it to her... Judy really did Joni (and all of us) a great good deed and, personally, I'm just tickled pink for any and all benefit she got from doing so! Folks today may not be aware that Judy already had a pretty full recording career under her belt when BSN came along. She had transitioned from being one of the main traditional folk artists to doing more contemporary stuff and was, at the time, widely considered very astute in her choice of material. Her recording of Leonard Cohen's 'Suzanne' is the one most people have heard and did much the same for his career. The album it came from, 'In My Life' still reigns IMO as the best panorama of great, late '60's folk there is. At the time I knew and was jamming with Joni, (remember she wasn't a recording artist yet) being a performer myself and having to come up with fresh material for my own sets, (I was never a songwriter) while I learned and played 5 of Joni's songs, of the eleven songs on that album, (Tom Thumb's Blues, Hard Lovin Loser, Pirate Jenny, Suzanne, La Colombe, Marat/Sade, I Think it's Going to Rain Today, Sunny Goodge Street, Liverpool Lullaby, Dress Rehearsal Rag, In my Life) which came out right about the same time in '66', I learned and played eight of them! I remember well when I picked up that issue of LIFE and saw that pic. I'd been a bigtime Judy fan long before I met Joni and then to meet Joni and become friends for two years and then see her get her record deal was just over the top! These days they talk about something called 'degrees of separation' but this was always a real trip for me... kind of in reverse... knowing Joni first and then seeing her hanging with all these people as her recording career progressed was really something. I think before this there was a James Taylor songbook that came out and there were several pics of he and Joni in there and that gave me such a weird feeling as I was also a big fan of his... seeing this pic was like that... some circle of friends, huh? How's that for a folksinger's dream?! :o) thanks much, pat http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/ Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:57:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: More on KL - --- "James L. Leonard" wrote: > I hoped *someone* would remember the Bizarro World, > and I might have guessed > it'd be you, Bob. You're a pop culture sponge! :-) > > (I say that with admiration and empathy.) > > "Boston Jim" > > >Bob > > >PS: Jim, I LOVED the Bizarro Superman and all those > Bizarro issues! So, whatever happened to Bizarro anyway? Is he still there somewhere in the 4th dimension (or whatever dimension he was from?) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:58:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does a woman who's name mustn't be put at the same sentence - --- SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/20/00 12:01:10 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > joni_reigns@hotmail.com writes: > > << But I would NEVER buy her CD . . . >> > > I bought her CD . . . and sent it to BOB!!!!!! > > Stephen :-D Whatever did Bob do to deserve that?? ;) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:02:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Covers Volume 4 My brother-in-Joni said: > For those of you brave enough to take on Volume 4, you'll soon discover that > KL's cover is not NEARLY as awful as some of these others. The version of CG > she does is cloyingly sweet sounding (you just look all around for Disney > animals to come dancing out of the sky), but there are others that are really > rancid. (And no, there's not a Rancid cover on the disc). > > NP: Jim Nabors, "BSN" (Yuck!):~) My copy of Vol 4 arrived yesterday here in Zoo Jersey. The scratch-n-sniff artwork on the disc itself is very appropriate! A combination of very aged Limburger and ripe aged gym socks That might explain the mailman's 'handkerchief on face' disguise ;-)) just kidding!! But there are some very surprising cuts on this Power of Cheese disc. Ever heard Mr Spock in pain? We've got it! Even Maude's not-so-little girl bouncing around! So make sure you get your cheese before the Wisconsin Attorney General's office shuts us down for defamation of the State Vegetable!! And a laurel and hearty handshake for our cover-meister, *THE* man from Greenville, our own Bob Muller. Thanks Bob, from all of us. Back to uninspired non-work here, Brian np: the best of laura nyro (hey, that's how she wrote it on the cover!) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:02:49 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Tunings (NJC) This was posted by Brian Harred on the Eric Johnson list. I am posting it here for the benefit of you all who are into "the deeper meaning". Some of you scholl learned musicians may like to comment on it's accuracy, etc. Excuse the bandwidth for all of you who don't find this interesting. Michael NP-Homeworld-Yes From: Brian Harred Subject: ej-l Pentatonics De-mystified...(LEJC except for the "pentatonic revolution" he has spawned!) Wow...I'm surprised you guys haven't told the entire pentatonic story...I am also wondering why people sometimes have to make everything as difficult as possible, when the simplest approch is usually easier and more accurate...or at least more understandable. Pentatonics are more than just 5 note scales if you take their history into account. What they are is the closest representation we musicians who use the Western Major-Minor system have to the "Eastern" scales; I believe in this case the pentatonics come from Japan. (Although I know for sure it's eastern in origin). You see; the octave is a unit of measurment, just like a yard, an inch, a pound, whatever. The octave was the first unit of musical measurment that mankind figured out (other than beat)...because of it's simplicity; any sound that is exactly twice as high (or low) in *pitch* from an origonating sound (The first sound in question; the tonic) is said to be an "octave" away from the origonal sound in question. A 2:1 ratio...twice as high or low. Now; once man figured this much out, he began to *divide* the octave. (I know, I know...he was already using a bunch of notes, but bear with me) HOW the octave is divided depends on a lot of things; like geographical location, how their parents or ancestors divided it, etc. It just so happens that in the far east, different instruments were developed than anywhere else; just as happened *everywhere* else. Different peoples developed different instruments, and divided the octave in many different ways. This is why eastern music has a very distinctive sound; and so does any ethnic music you can think of. You know; bagpipes, lutes, violins, balarakas, sitars...all very distinctive. OK...So everybody divided the octave differently. That's because of the tradition of their people and how they thought it sounded "best". In most places it had nothing to do with mathmatical reasoning or anything like that. Until Pathagorus came along... Pathagorus was one of (if not the first) the first people to understand the meaning of nodes and the fact that when the octave is divided in certain ways, an actual "system" could be achieved that basically "standardized" mathmatically a system of music...making instruments easier to play, and giving more relevant options musically. This system was developed in the west (not the "old western frontier" or anything, but west as in Europeans) and became the standard; what we now call the Western Major-Minor system. Of course tradition still plays a role in a lot of what we use in this system; but on the whole, it is very standardized and mathmatical in nature. Other systems were developed in other parts of the world; good luck learning them! They are very weird, indeed...most are based entirely on tradition and are not mathmatical at all. (For those of you who scoff at music theory and think everythings all about "soul" absolutely and nothing else, try learning one of *those* systems by "ear"! Don't think I discount the importance of soul, however.) Without a logical system, music can be very complicated. You would almost have to be born in one of those other cultures to even have a chance at mastering their music. (I'm talking about India, China, Japan, Persia (Now Iraq)and especially a lot of more isolated places). Thank God for Pathagorus, Mozart's Dad, and a lot of others too numerous to name. The "tradition" part is one of the biggest stumbling blocks I have seen with music students. Most don't seem to understand the fact that without studying music **history**, music cannot (on the level of musicology, not necassarily in every way of course) be truly understood. Then again, just because some one is extremlely talented at playing an instrument doesn't mean he/she truly understands all of music. Lucky for us all that this doesn't really matter a whole lot. But, for the sake of this argument, I digress... The study of music has a lot of concepts only understood by knowing it's history. It's like the poles of a battery; for many years they were reversed...i.e. positive was actually negative and vise-versa. This was soley and *only* because of tradition; early pioneers of electronics got it backwards but instead of changing it, they left it as it was; backwards. Every electrician knows this. (I think they finally changed it?) That's the power of tradition; without knowing this historical fact, people scratch their heads wondering why electricity seems to flow *backwards* from a battery. Anyway... Our western system of music has a lot of the same anomalies...things that don't jibe with the rest of the system; things *only* understood by knowing music history; not just theory. Now, to put 2 and 2 together: The "pentatonics" we all know and love are not *TRUE* pentatonics at all! They are as close as we can get with our instruments; Why? Because the *spacing* between the *frets* (or holes) on traditional eastern instruments is quite different than that on *our* instruments. They divided the octave differently, so their frets are in different spots than ours. Anyone ever try to figure out the musical "system" of a traditional sitar? Geese...very strange. In conclusion; YES, pents are just 5 notes, because the eastern scales they are derived from are just 5 notes. Almost every other thing that can be said about pentatonics comes from *our* system; not the origonal. In order to make pents jibe with everything else in our system, they have been slightly altered in pitch; but this is just a consequence of using the western system and keeping them relevant to it. As for how they relate to scales, modes, etc...Why complicate the matter? I saw some correct stuff some of you wrote, and some incorrect or irrelevant stuff also. I name no names. Let me go at it like this: In order to really understand the scales and modes (besides studying music history) I say (my opinion) the *step-patterns* are the most important thing you can study. The step-patterns of the scales basically tell all. Once you know the step-patterns of the Major scale and the relevant Natural Minor, it could be obvious that everything else are just derivitives! That's it! (The obvious exception being "exotic" scales like pents or Kumoi or Hirajoshi or Neapolitan Minor, etc.; which approximate the origonals and have strange step-patterns). Next comes the Harmonic and Melodic Minors...but what are those? Just variations of the basics! The modes? Just start wherever you want, and follow the step-pattern in question! That's it! Pents step-pattern? T, 1-1/2, W, 1-1/2, W!!! Start that pattern on whatever maj. or min. scale you want, and notice what notes you land on...(BTW that was Tonic, minor third, Whole step, Minor third, Whole step!) The step-patterns really are the key. Here's a mnuemonic I use to really understand how all of the scales (in particular the major and relevant minor) relate: Never think of scales in one-octave units. Always write them out two octaves (sometimes even three octaves helps more)...and check out the step-patterns of whatever relevant scales you are trying to resolve! In the case of the most basic Cmaj-Amin relationship; see what happens when you follow the MAJOR scale step-pattern, starting at A! Write out the Cmaj scale TWO octaves, start at A, and just continue up to the next A using the Major step-pattern (going along as if you had started from C)...write down the resulting step-pattern from a to a. What do you see? C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C Major: W=Whole step H=Half step C-W-D-W-E-H-F-W-G-W-A-W-B-H-C-W-D-W-E-H-F-W-G-W-A-W-B-H-C!!! Notice pattern from A to A...what is it? Now you see why it's "relevant" or "Natural". For those of you who already know all this, sit back with me and watch the fun! I can hardly wait to see the expressions...when it hits em' what's going on! This little experiment can be a real eye-opener for anyone that still sees all this as a mystery. "Simplicity is the key to perfection" -Me "Music theory plus Music History equals true understanding" -Me again! I hope you have as much fun reading this as I did writing it. If I didn't cover enough or if I left anything important out, sorry...this was a very small chunk off the tip of a very large iceberg...although it could be all a lot of people ever need. (once understood). A lot of people who don't know *any* of this can smoke butt on a guitar...some who know it all can't play crap. It's still interesting though... PS...For the really interested; Find the closest step patterns of the basic scales that these scales fit best; just to see how they relate and to demystify them. Example; The Hirajoshi: A B C E F A would be examined like this: A B C (D) E F (G) A B C (D) E F (G) A...since the first three notes are a minor third and by adding the missing notes it most closely (exactly, actually) resembles an Amin scale, it could be said that it is no more than an Amin scale with a couple of notes missing! We have truly demystified it! We then note the step-pattern, and play it in any key! Note what happenes when you start at C...You have the very tonic and basic C major scale! Cool, huh? They can ALL be demystified in this way; even if you have to resolve them to the chromatic scale. (Thanks goes out to Alexander Edward Sager for writing these out) s=sharp f=flat Neapolitan Minor: C Df Ef F G Af B C Neapolitan Major: C Df Ef F G A B C Oriental: C Df E F Gf A Bf C Double Harmonic: C Df E F G Af B C Enigmatic: C Df E Fs Gs As B C Hirajoshi: A B C E F A Hungarian Minor: C D Ef Fs G Af B C Hungarian Major: C Ds E Fs G A Bf C Kumoi: E F A B C E Iwato: B C E F A B Hindu: C D E F G Af Bf C Spanish 8 Tone: C Df Ef E F Gf Af Bf C Pelog: C Df Ef G Bf C Hungarian Gypsy: C D Ef Fs G Af Bf C Major Phrygian: C DF E F G Af Bf C Major Locrian: C D E F Gf Af Bf C Lydian Minor: C D E Fs G Af Bf C Overrtone: C D E Fs G A Bf C Leading Whole Tone: C D E Fs Gs As B C Arabian: C D E F Gf Af Bf C Balinese: C Df Ef G Af C Gypsy: C Df E F G Af B C Mohammedan: C D Ef F G Af B C Javanese: C Df Ef F G A Bf C Persian: C Df E F gF Af B C Algerian: C D Ef Fs G Af B C D Ef F Aeolian: C D Ef F G aF Bf C Byzantine: C Df E F G Af B C Hawaiian: C D Ef (f grace note) G A B C Jewish: E F Gs A B C D E Mongolian: C D E G A C Ethiopian: G A Bf C D Ef F G (The B and E can also be natural and the F can be sharp) Spanish: C D f E F G Af Bf C Egyptian: C D F G Bf C Japanese: C Df F G Af C Chinese: F G A C D F C E FsG B C Have fun! Anyone who needs help, just drop me a line at my other address. (Although for those this helps and are excited by it, it will be very cool to see your reactions in the list if that's OK) And it should be OK...after all, Eric Johnson started the "Pentatonic Revolution" single-handedly! (I still say he doesn't over-do them though. True analyzation of his music proves this). Brian Harred also at: brocas_brain@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:06:15 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: FW: Talkin bout this generation (www.rollingstone.com) Harper Lou wrote: > > There is reason for hope, I know, and I insist on believing that people > > are inherently good. The evil ones just seem to be making more noise > > these days. And, alas, I play such a quiet instrument! Harper, thank you for your wonderful words. I likewise get discouraged by the shadow side of humanity. But what I get even more discouraged by is the lack of voice the good people have. It doesn't have to loud, just well placed and often. I still have yet to see the "underbelly" postings on the rollingstone.com site . . . we have simply brought light back to that discussion group. A quiet instrument does just fine. Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:11:19 -0700 From: mbirdny@earthlink.net Subject: RE: pan am I may talk commodities and sales under the Pan Am roof, but I live in nothing close to Harry's House.... I'd say it's closer to a tenement castle, with two grey rooms, where I spend my days dodging the light like Blanche DuBois. I have a coffee percolator but no dishwasher, or figure skater ... Nickel Chief (P.S. To Kakki's friend who was unnerved by the name change from Pan Am to MetLife ... a lot of people still call it the Pan Am building, out of habit.) - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:11:35 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: NJC Re: Kathie Lee does a woman who's name mustn't be put at the same sentence Loree wrote: ><< But I would NEVER buy her CD . . . >> > Stephen wrote: >I bought her CD . . . and sent it to BOB!!!!!! > >Stephen :-D Stephen, how cruel. What did Bob do to deserve that!? I think he should save it and we can use it as the "losers" prize on a Joni trivia contest! Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:16:49 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: joni and judy >(this was written regarding the accompanying >text to the LIFE mag pic of Joni and Judy in the >tree house at Big Sur that Rick posted to >Catgirl's list. if anyone didn't see it and >would like a copy, as it has some historical >significance to Joni's career, just write me and >I'll email you a copy) > I would definitely be interested in the pic. Thanks! Loree P.S. - What is the big falling out between Joni and Judy that I have heard of through the years? Sad not to see Judy at the Joni tribute. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:30:40 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: (NJC)Harper Lou's Blues > << I guess we were so busy with our sex, drugs and rock and roll, we > forgot to > carry those value forward to our kids, eh? > Hey Harper Lou I totally understand where you are coming from. Our sex and drugs and rock'n roll and theirs are quite different. It's just that darn "Circle Game" going round and round. It's a thin line in some spots but responsible humanity driven people are very different from the Me-dollar types that are being bred these days. It's a combination of the older generation we use to rally against and a new generation twisting our philosophy. So it's Money for sex and drugs and rock'n roll and no tolerance or humanity just plenty of self righteous bullies! On the plus side though, we are still thriving and there are pockets of young people who are becoming involved and working for acceptance and tolerance. We shall overcome. But GOD save the music! Stamp out 90% of rap and Brittany Spears, Kid Rock, Eminem and the list goes on and on and .... I think RS has lost touch and direction, they use to make stars now they follow. I still can't quite join up with the religious right, mostly because I doubt they would have me! Keep the faith and keep the dialect open and going especially to young people. We must remember to talk TO them not AT them. Wear your heart, feelings, philosophy on your sleeves, how else will any of these kids or anybody every see the alternatives or options. We can make a difference one person at a time. Only this week did someone approach me and tell me that my late lover Robin still continues to make a difference in their life. She Lives! Peace Susan ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #343 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?