From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #333 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Thursday, June 15 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 333 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: William Shatner njc ["Ken (slarty)" ] RE: William Shatner njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: What is Jazz?-Answer (NJC) [picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith)] from the "If you can't hype yourself" department/njc (sort of ... but not really ... then again) [] Steely Dan at UA (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Steely Dan at UA (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: the other two NJC ["P. Henry" ] Re: William Shatner Sings........ [peves@marlboro.edu] metheny-njc [PFallo@aol.com] RE: Lower Levels of Hell/Nyro [peves@marlboro.edu] Levels of Hell (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Just Ice (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: boy groups NJC [Catherine McKay ] Fantasy Box Set ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Lower Levels of Hell (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Joni and Steve (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] for the record ["P. Henry" ] Re: Joni and Steve (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Steely Dan at UA (NJC) [philipf@tinet.ie] Shatner in Mojo njc [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Lower Levels of Hell (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Steely Dan at UA (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] rhymes hissing [Howard Motyl ] Re: guitar orchestra from Taming the Tiger ? [Howard ] Re: Shatner in Mojo njc [Catherine McKay ] Slant rhyme. [Richard Rice ] Re: Lower Levels of Hell (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] "don't interrupt the sorrow" [B Merrill ] Re: Steely Dan at UA and tour dates (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Slant rhyme. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: metheny-njc [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] Re: metheny-njc [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] Neil Young on VH-1 (NJC) ["kerry" ] Kenny G (NJC) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:01:23 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: William Shatner njc That's all in the past. Now he's known by a more tense indicative last name. Wally Kairuz wrote: > did you all know that william shatner is known as william shat in the music > circles? > wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:25:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: William Shatner njc LOL!!!!!!!!!! wallyk, nee painter - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Ken (slarty)" Para: "Wally Kairuz" CC: Enviado: Jueves 15 de Junio de 2000 04:01 Asunto: Re: William Shatner njc > That's all in the past. Now he's known by a more tense indicative last name. > > Wally Kairuz wrote: > > > did you all know that william shatner is known as william shat in the music > > circles? > > wallyk > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith) Subject: Re: What is Jazz?-Answer (NJC) Hi everyone, Catching up on digests, I see that there has been a real blow up on the subject of Kenny G/Pat Metheny. Musicians are applauding Pat while others are condeming him for daring to categorize Kenny's listeners as well as daring to determine "What is jazz?" I would like to share a couple of points that might help breech that chasm that seems to exist about this. My father brought me up listening to Dave Brubeck, Sarah Vaughn, and Lou Rawls. He also brought me up listening to James Brown, Aretha Franklin and Dionne Warwick. He did not distinguish between the two styles that one was better than the other. I loved each of these artists because they took a song and interpreted it in a way that touched my soul. It wasn't until I started studying music theory that I learned the absolute beauty of the "craft." That's when I became a "musician." Herein lies the conflict. Jazz, by it's very nature, is an ever-evolving art form. It is based on innovation and experimentation so it cannot be blocked off into some neat little package. It is Samba, it is Bossa Nova, it is Chicago Blues as well as Acid Funk. It is ever changing. But the one thing it cannot be or should not be, is mundane. Many jazz musicians (as well as those in other categories of music) have a love and a passion for their craft that rivals nothing on earth. Throughout the centuries musicians have battled each other over the asthetics of their art, so this is nothing new. Kenny's devoted listeners will attest to the fact that his music touches them deeply. Kenny has won many jazz awards this year, so he has gotten affirmation from the jazz community. The real question is, what does the jazz listener want or expect of his or her music anymore? Many musicians feel that as a jazz musician, Kenny does not allow himself to explore the depths of the music he has been taught. The concept of jazz is to improvise, innovate and explore. Many musicians feel he does not do this. To them, this is pretty much a sacrilege. But jazz musicians have to come to grips with the fact that Kenny's brand of jazz music seems to be what the public wants at this stage of the game. Their audience has changed. Some in the classical music community accused Arthur Fiedler(Boston Pops) of doing the same disservice to their art form. Who should be the judge if any should be at all? I have to say that I like the melodies Kenny G comes up with, but my heart is always saddened because he stops so short of what I feel could be a magnificent piece of improvisation... but I speak only from a musician's point of view, and from the perspective of someone who has a passion for the theory and art of creating music. Art buffs have their standard for a classic painting; Wine afficienados have their standards for a vintage wine; So it is also with jazz music. Like a jealous lover, our passions can make us say and do things which we later regret. That is why as musicians we must keep them always under control-letting them be free for their intended purpose only....to create a work of art. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:39:14 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: from the "If you can't hype yourself" department/njc (sort of ... but not really ... then again) I will be playing solo piano (including some Joni) at the Lincoln Park Jazz Fest in Chicago this Saturday, June 17, 2000, from 5:30 - 7:00 pm, 2000 N. Lincoln Park West, near the corner of Armitage and Clark. C'mon down and set a spell. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 01:39:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Steely Dan at UA (NJC) Whooooooo - another incredible night of music at my very first Steely Dan concert at Universal Amphitheater. It was soooooo fab-u-lous. Was supposed to be in nosebleed but moved into an 8th row seat from the beginning ;-) Most of the people around me also snuck into these great seats - (guess the scalpers were left holding the bag on this one - haha) I didn't keep a setlist - just wanted to groove - but they played several songs from the new album and loads from all their early and older albums -West of Hollywood, Janie Runaway, Cousin Dupree, Boston Rag, Peg, Bodhisattva, Josie, Deacon Blues, Kid Charlemange, Dirty Work and more. They played for around two hours and there was a standing ovation after nearly every song. For the encore they performed My Old School and FM and the entire audience was on their feet dancing in the aisles through to the end. That SF reviewer that we read the other day here on the list couldn't have been more WRONG in his review. (although, and don't shoot me - Walter does sort of look like an English lit professor from Dead Poets Society and I kept thinking Donald looked like "Mr. Turtle meets Blade Runner" ;-) But they were just delightful and charming. The band and the trio of back-up girl singers was AMAZING. Bob Sheppard looked a little tired - it's been a big month or so for him - but he worked his a** off and seemed to be in total bliss throughout every song. Thanks to Howard W. and Bob bringing up the Mu chords, I watched the actual playing much more intensely than usual and wow, there is stuff going on there from another planet. My personal impression was that this music is not only not dated but it is still very much ahead of its time. It is a unique sort of 21st century pop-jazz-hybrid that uses it compelling infectiousness to easily lure and seduce you into the subterranean world of the seedy, bizarre and colorful characters who inhabit the songs. I've listened to and devoured their songs from the beginning but am amazed that they still sound so awesomely original to me - as if I am just hearing them for the first time, every time. Everyone who loves them should not miss the chance to catch a show on this tour. Kakki NP: Steely Dan - "Rising the crest of a wave breaking just West of Hollywood" ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 15 08:18:46 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Steely Dan at UA (NJC) <> Thanks for the joyous review, Kakki! Your statement above is one that I'm in total agreement with; the Dan has created their own statndard and sound and put the bar so high that others rarely even try to achieve it. They may not be easy on the eye but man o man are they ever a treat for the ears! They're also coming to Chastain, same as Joni...I'd love to see them, but I'll be on the coast on vacation...:~( But at least I could enjoy them vicariously through your post! :~) Bob NP: Billy Bragg, "Rumours of War" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 06:42:16 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: the other two NJC to the intent that I mislead no one on the list with misinformation since at least one or two of you have come to trust what as I say as somewhat truthful, I retract my statement that the woman in Altman's picture is Mimi Farina and I apologize for my error. not to defend but to explain somewhat, I'm sure it is an understandable assumption on my part seeing as the woman is standing onstage just where Mimi would normally stand in that type of situation as she often (almost always?) performed with Joan and you can't really see her face... however... I must admit that it was rather preposterous of me to claim "the woman (definitely) is Mimi Farina" because: a) when I blew up the pic and sharpened the image it's obvious that, whoever the lady is, she doesn't have Mimi's good looks, b) I should have known better as I have never seen Mimi play a dreadnaught guitar like the one in the pic, only an old, smaller, pre-war Martin like the one Joan played, and c) I guess, as some might say, I was talking out of my ass. sorry, pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:27:53 -0400 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ I would like that too, Bob. Peg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:57:46 EDT From: PFallo@aol.com Subject: metheny-njc maybe metheny has "zero tolerance" for very mediocre music passing itself off as jazz. maybe his tirade should have been against the music bizness and music marketting. and maybe the bit about playing mark mcquire on g's head WAS a bit extreme. on the other hand, pat's music has NEVER been about playing it safe and obviously just like his music, he didn't play it safe when questioned about his feelings towards kenny g. he has NOW said that he would think twice before giving his opinion again. in his case, maybe that's a good thing. on the other hand, maybe, just maybe that's too bad. think about it-don't tell us what you really think. don't be forthright with us. don't be honest with us. he did it. he said it. in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter. after all, they're just words. kenny g will survive and pat metheny will survive. phil np-pat metheny/ornette coleman "kathelin gray" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:05:09 -0400 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: RE: Lower Levels of Hell/Nyro No Heather. Not The Iron Horse. I presented her at the Claremont Opera House in Claremont, NH. (even though I said Vermont - most of the few shows I offered were in Vermont) I was just looking at the press release actually. It was Nov. 4 of . . . must have been '90 actually. Peg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:01:03 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Levels of Hell (NJC) Rev Vince wrote: >I quite agree on Bookends as a hallmark of one's life... >and this was for fun, not to be so damned serious... >and in Chicago in 68, we weren't falling in love, we were just trying to say >away from the cops.. Well excuse me! You *did* invite comments on what you wrote. Sorry to misinterpret the "fun". ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:02:11 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Just Ice (NJC) Willy the Shake wrote: >Would anyone like to talk about "Just Ice"? I like my 7 & 7 over ice.... ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: boy groups NJC - --- Howard Motyl wrote: > Even before the Monkees, which were a fabricated > musical group, there > were pre-fabricated groups--aren't Frankie and the > Teenagers an invented > group And if so, isn't Joni a bit of a Frankie Lyman and the Teenagers fan? Hmmm.... why do fools fall in love anyway? OK, so we've had this debate before but why not? It's a good one. Is it OK to be *manufactured* as long as you've got *some* talent? Define talent - is it what comes of sending your kids to dancing school and music lessons, and putting them in the "Beautiful Baby" contests, and the Miss Teen Universe (what about the other planets, I always wonder - where are the Martians and the Venusians in all this? that's another question for another day...) contest? Is it something that's taught, or is it innate? Both? Neither? Is it really talent if it's all form and no substance? Where does "soul" enter into it? What is "soul" and who defines it? Who decides who has "soul"? Right now my kids like the girl and boy groups. In a few years, maybe a few months or weeks even, my kids and all their friends will decide - probably en masse - - that these groups suck big time. The ex-Spice Girls and ex-NSynch boys (does that make them OuttaSynch?) won't be able to find jobs in the music business. They'll be too old (over 20?), maybe they'll put on some weight... People may laugh at them because they're just soooo yesterday. Maybe they'll end up in Vegas or at the Ice Follies, or maybe they'll end up drunk somewhere. They may have to get (ulp) *real* jobs working as accountants or real estate agents or government flacks like some of us boring people. Should we feel sorry for them? Not if they've invested wisely, I suppose (how boring!). Maybe in another 20-30 years there will be a reunion and all of our kids will show up and say, "Hey, now, this is MUSIC! This group really HAS IT after all this time. They sure don't write 'em like they used to... those were the days..." and so on. Just a few thought - I'm not even going to TRY to explain any of this stuff. It all comes down to individual taste. Some people like Kenny G - even though I don't think I'll ever get that, it's a fact that cannot be denied (unless maybe it's his relatives who are buying all his CS? now there's a thought..) TTFN. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:34:41 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Fantasy Box Set Would anyone like to play Fantasy Joni Mitchell Box Set? :-) If so, please assume a 4-CD box set, chronicling Joni's career from coffeehouse to BSN. Each CD can contain up to 74 minutes of music (296 minutes, total box time), but I'm not asking for people to get out a calculator or anything. Also please assume, except for early songs not recorded in the studio (which would be taken from The Second Fret Sets, or something similar), that everything included in the box would be taken from the official albums STAS through BSN. (If you haven't heard the early songs not on record, please ignore them and just compile a box beginning with STAS.) What would be the track listing for each of your four discs, including the sequencing? I certainly wouldn't expect any replies immediately. I know something like this would take a little time to think through. Are you interested, though? Btw, I'm not planning to actually make one of these (I don't even own a CD burner), but I'm wondering how you'd like to see Joni's career presented to a less knowledgeable public in the box set format. "Boston Jim" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:53:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell (NJC) - --- "Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > Rev Vince wrote: > > >and this was for fun, not to be so damned > serious... > > it seems (IMO) that from > now on (IMO) I need to preface and append everything > I say with IMO, > otherwise everyone will take my posts as being fact > (IMO) rather than my > opinion (IMO). > > Why does everything have to be taken so damn > literally all of a sudden? > It's making me seriously consider whether I actually > want to stay here. Don't you dare leave. If you try, I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you. (That was a joke. A sick joke. But a joke. IMO.) There was a huge solar flare last week - do you suppose that affects people's attitudes? Excuse me, gotta go, there are heads that need biting off... ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:02:42 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: metheny-njc In a message dated 6/15/2000 10:07:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PFallo@aol.com writes: << he did it. he said it. in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter. after all, they're just words. kenny g will survive and pat metheny will survive. >> Phil, You are right. I look at it like this..Pat plays deep technical jazz where as Kenny G plays commerical basic jazz. They both are jazz but one is more advanced then the other. I also feel that either Kenny G sold out for the commercial fame or never really had it in him to begin with meaning he could never be a technical jazz performer. Catgirl not ONE Kenny G Cd and about TEN Pat Metheny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: William Shatner njc - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > did you all know that william shatner is known as > william shat in the music > circles? Really? Shat? No shit! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:09:54 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni and Steve (NJC) God, I love that subject line! ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:15:03 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: for the record Kakki wrote >>For the record, I don't mind at all when Joni skewers the music biz generally but when she names names, I also cringe. She and Metheny should be above that kind of thing.>> and CathrineT agreed: >I'm with Kakki, the vitriol is sometimes hard to take.> I caught Aimee on 'Later' and also noticed the similarity in her stories/attitude regarding the 'star maker machinery' to that of Joni's. while listening I saw what they both are on about from a somewhat different angle, that being the simple concept of putting the cart before the horse... ie: the great wrong it is that the business of distributing the art overtakes the art itself. (without which, there would BE no business!) I picture a small village and a woman who paints pictures... pretty soon the beauty in her soul, in combination with lots of art supplies, becomes stacks and piles of beauty filling her house and she thinks it would be so great to get these where other people could enjoy seeing them and she sets up a table in the square and arranges some for people to view them... some fall in love with this one or that so they ask to buy, etc... that's all... just a simple sharing of her art... and her heart... 'from me to you'... ...and for the record, Joni's cynical standpoint toward the recording/promoting/selling music 'biz' and it's prostitution of art is not, as some might suppose, the *result* of getting into it and bad experiences, though I'm sure that hasn't helped, but in fact predates her involvement in it! ie: as I have shared before, Joni was in high demand with several recording companies hounding her to sign for at least two years that I know of before she recorded STAS. she would get that wrinkle between her eyebrows she gets and warn me sternly about the 'Elvis' or standard contract which required the signee to 'mass produce' so many singles and albums per year and vow she would never put her art on an 'assembly line schedule'... and ya know... she never has! she wrote her own contract and that's when she recorded and not before. she coulda been living high on the hog instead of playing $50-$200/night gigs and barely able to afford guitar strings... but she held out and stuck to her convictions and, contrary to the opinion of some, has never compromised! she may have made mistakes along the way but they were honest mistakes cause that's how she is. honest! 'if you like it fine... if you don't, tough! this is my art!' ...but she has never backed down or catered to 'the business' in creating her art. so why does she name names? I think she sees these people, these 'pop performers', molded by the machine instead of the other way around, as traitors and whores who've sold out on principles she has stood and fought for her entire career... 'against the wind'... pat NP: The American - Martin Sexton (this guy is SO awesome!) Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:34:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni and Steve (NJC) Robert Pinsky'll probabaly put a contract out onme, but here goes: Joni and The Tinker Sittin' in a tree D-R-O-N-I-N-G They sure played Real good for free And even folksy versions From DED! Cordially yours, Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:33:14 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Steely Dan at UA (NJC) Great review Kakki, as always. I've been a Steely fan since Thrill but when then played in Dublin a few years ago I didn't go. I had some insane idea that they couldn't do it live. I won't make that mistake again. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:33:50 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Shatner in Mojo njc Exciting news for all you William Shatner fans in this month's Mojo. He's doing an album of covers with people like Ben Folds Five and Veruca Salt. According to Ben Folds, Shatner "defines the art of talking over music." Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:45:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell (NJC) - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > There was a huge solar flare last week - do you > suppose that affects people's attitudes? Excuse me, > gotta go, there are heads that need biting off... > No, but it sure did turn The Weather Channel into a spastic, twitching mess for about a half a day here in St. Louis. Don Rowe (a confessed TWC addict who knows he's not alone) ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 15 14:11:05 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Steely Dan at UA (NJC) Speaking of Steely Dan, anybody heard that soundtrack to "Me, Myself & Irene"? It's the new Farrelly Bros. film and features almost all Steely Dan covers - could be pretty cool as their stuff is rarely covered, probably since their music is so complex. But Eric of the Worthingtones can sure play Steely Dan! ;~) Bob NP: The Breeders, "do you love me now?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:57:08 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: rhymes hissing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------BFCBDB5A97A8325AD206465C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcel: here is an internal rhyme from Joni: "Out of the wind in crinoline." Just heard this on the Hissing Demos. Amazing. Thanks, Catgirl, for turning me on to this. Muchisimas gracias. Howard M - --------------BFCBDB5A97A8325AD206465C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;3 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------BFCBDB5A97A8325AD206465C-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:09:20 +0100 From: Howard Subject: Re: guitar orchestra from Taming the Tiger ? > James Phillips wrote: > > I'm going to come off really ignorant here but can someone define what a > "guitar orchestra" is that Joni is credited as playing on Harlem in Havana > and Lead Baloon on Taming the Tiger? I would appreciate any insight as to > this question. > I think Joni said she played "guitar orchestra" on a couple of the TTT tracks simply because she overdubbed many different VG8 guitar parts, each using different sounds, so the overall effect was like a mini-orchestra. The VG8 is a gadget that plugs into the guitar and allows you to get all sorts of sounds from the guitar - trumpets, piano, marimba, whatever ... this allowed Joni (for the first time) to layer up guitar parts *without having them all sound like a guitar* - i.e she is strumming the strings and fingering chords in the same way, but the sound she gets is different, and almost infinitely variable! Like the opening riff on Harlem in Havana. That's a weird sound - not like a guitar at all, but it *is* played on a guitar! So, the guitar orchestra is basically layers of many different VG8 guitar tracks, all using different sounds. Howard W. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:15:59 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: The Weather Channel and "A Lesson in Survivor" NJC In a message dated 6/15/00 1:58:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << (a confessed TWC addict who knows he's not alone) >> Nope you're not alone Don! When music isn't playing in my house, the weather channel is on the tube. I must admit last night I had to see what all the hoopla on the new show "Survivor" was all about. (100 thumbs down)..........I'd rather see "Gilligans Island." I'm just glad the JMDL doesn't have a tribal council to vote a member out each week :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:17:57 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: big boo hoo NJC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------0743F0F5DED148943B638084 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just listened to the Hissing demos and am wondering oh so sadly, where the title song demo is. Oh, woe is me. - --------------0743F0F5DED148943B638084 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;3 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------0743F0F5DED148943B638084-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:45:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Shatner in Mojo njc - --- philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > Exciting news for all you William Shatner fans in > this month's Mojo. > He's doing an album of covers with people like Ben > Folds Five and > Veruca Salt. According to Ben Folds, Shatner > "defines the art of > talking over music." > Get outta town! Is this for real? It has gotten so it's impossible to tell when people are truthin' and when they're foolin'! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:41:41 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Slant rhyme. Hi Gang, Gangsters. Joni gangsters at that. Love the 'mini' thread on Joni's rhyme. Her ability to sound natural and conversational in song is one of the marvelous talents about her I absolutely admire. No one in this century matches her brilliance at constructing meaningful songs within the needs and constraints of the song form as she has. She does it with such brilliance, I was surprised when I read her say that putting words to the music was the hardest thing for her. And at times she would be blocked by concept, or constraints of the form, requiring her to leave the music for long stretches of time. Kind of like pulling teeth. ....Joni? Since music and its creation are a mistery to me, I always figured the melodies were the hard part and the words were easy as pie for her. Shows what I know. She could probably sit at a piano and piece together a melody in a day that would send us all blathering with bliss. Certainly, in her early days, her writing was far more prolific. Scratched out on napkins, note pads, line paper. Anywhere she encountered human drama, she seemed to be assimilating it in song form. Most of these early pieces are pretty forgettable in terms of having universal worth or standing as fine poetry. But man, I love the way the melodies took those freaky turns in the early days. Her cords would lead the melodies into weird modalities and made the lyric line seem so honest and fresh. Knocked David Crosy's socks off the first time he heard her. --How could they not? As her writing improved, as with most artists, the bigger the stakes the more scrutiny you put to the work you are doing. Having record contracts to fulfill certaintly must have begun to alter that process. Rather than the individual story pieces that made up her early coffee house days, the albums were more like art pieces. As the songs demanded more complexity of concept, the means demanded change as well. Hence her evolution towards jazz. We poke fun, gossip and analyze about Joni's brutal scrutiny of the music scene around her. I guarantee, it all pales a billion fold to the scrutiny she gives the blank page when she confronts putting words and meanings to a new melody. The use of slant rhyme and internal rhyme are invaluable pieces to the song writer. Without them you would be anchored to simple 'sing song' rhyme, and very limited in the concepts one could explore in a song. Most of the slags out there writing rely to heavily on simple rhyme, simple themes. Simpleton. Simpleton. Simpleton. --That's really the only bug I have with Britney, The Backstreet Boys, whatever. My mind consumes their melodic (?), conceptual ideas faster than a handful of butter popcorn and cotton candy. It's not their talent that bugs me at all. It's the lack of depth. As Joni put it, it's all "I'm da greatest looooooooover baby." Nice if you have three brain cells and the emotion depth of a goldfish. It is amazing to me how fluid her sentence structure is given the need to have rhyme as a major element in the song. Not one song, but every song has an incredible naturalness to it. It was a surprise and no surprise when I read that Lambert, Hendricks and Ross were the favorites of her youth. There you have it. You could not ask for a better model of conversational lyric writing. There stuff slips off the tongue like fine wine. I am convinced their style was a major formulative influence on how she would write. Or at least presented her with the idea of how one COULD write. How much rhyme is there in Joni's music? Surprisingly, less than I expected. I took a few minutes to glance at (the incorrect lyrics) of the Complete Poems and Lyrics. Unlike traditional poetic forms (Let's get our English majors in on this!) she may start a song in one rhyming pattern and have it completely change as the song goes along. For example, the song may run with a rhyme word, line, rhyme word, line. Then she will go for a long series of lines having no rhyme, then rescue the dissonance with a rhyme pattern built of a slant or internal rhyme. Certainly Court and Spark, Hejira and Mingus stand as her major, major breakouts in writing. Slot, hot, jackpots, me, lucky, tantalized, paradise. (Ok, english braniacs. What's the word for those last two?) Des Moines, coin, plant, lamp, blew it, to it. ( in next verse: dry cleaner do it.) Three, three, three, fruit, suit, lucky, money. Room, balloons, Circus Circus, purpose, Pooh Bears, blue there, Bells, tell, dime, line, Des Moines, coin,John, for one. There are all sorts of neat tricks she pulls out of the bag here. You guys are making me sick, I am enjoying this list so much I want a big 600 group hug. John. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:48:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell (NJC) - --- Don Rowe wrote: > > --- Catherine McKay > wrote: > > > There was a huge solar flare last week - do you > > suppose that affects people's attitudes? Excuse > me, > > gotta go, there are heads that need biting off... > > > No, but it sure did turn The Weather Channel into a > spastic, twitching mess for about a half a day here > in > St. Louis. > > Don Rowe > (a confessed TWC addict who knows he's not alone) > You are definitely not alone! The first thing I want to know when I get up each day is: what is the weather going to be? (Here in Toronto, if it's summer, which apparently it is now, it is nothing but hot, hazy, humid and stinky - now I remember what I hate most about this place!) I have a co-worker who calls up Environment Canada's weather office and gives them hell every time they get it wrong (which they do more often than not). "I get the news I need from the weather report." (S&G from a long time ago, but it's still true, by golly!) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:00:12 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: HOSL: city, jungle, suburb Bruce >> The underlying jungle drums signal a musical and lyrical >> disruption of the happier days of "In France." Now you suddenly realize >> that this isn't Court and Spark, Pt. II. "I don't think we're in Alberta >> anymore, Toto!" Philip: >I don't get that. The way I see it he says....... >The dark skinned people in the foreground with their lovely world beats >represent all that's good and pure in the world. They haven't been >corrupted by commerce and religion. This may be true.... But I don't believe Joni ever sings about these people in the foreground. Does she? The "jungle" that she sings about is second hand (Rousseau's painted jungle) or the metaphorical and negative jungle of the urban "cannibals." As far as Joni is concerned the >savages are the people running the corporations in the tall buildings (The >Exxons of this world, the people who mess with the garden planet) and >the half baked Christian moralists snug in their bible belt dreams. Those >cannibals of shuck and jive, if you will. She gives thanks to National >Geographic not The Wall St Journal. Yes, I agree.... But the point where I believe she comes closest to singing about the real jungle (as opposed to depicting it graphically) is the line: "charging elephants and chanting slaving boats," which (metaphoric or literal) is a scene of violence and predation, not a scene out of the National Geographic of noble and happy primitives, innocent in the greenery. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:34:08 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: "don't interrupt the sorrow" At 06:20 PM 06/09/2000 EDT, RickieLee1@aol.com asked: >next to "don't interrupt the sorrow" is there any more inaccessible song in >joni mitchell's canon than this one? [Passion play] I don't believe I know Passion Play. But is "don't interrupt the sorrow" generally considered to be the most inaccessible of all? Well, here's how I would access it: Firstly, it's set between Edith and the Kingpin & Shades of Scarlett Conquering, as part of a trio of songs about early adulthood: the power-plays of sex & romance, domination & subservience engaged in by single men and women. Courtship as a hissing battleground, rather than a happy sparking. The line "Don't interrupt the sorry" is the woman's retort to the man who has just said something like, "Hey, enough of your annoying self-pity, woman!"-- which is how he interprets her complaint against him. He's trying to get her to cut off her sorrow with that kind of crack. The song then continues with the back and forth of a man and woman arguing, and so the song might be hard to access since Joni voices both the man's and the woman's lines. (Mostly the woman's.) The back and forth is clarified when Joni sings "He says....etc." which comes in reply to the woman announcing "Anima rising... etc." And the man also says "Anima rising..." but dismissively, "so what!" More specifically, feminism, the rising anima, rejects the Christian degradation of women (the guilt of Eden). Only those asleep in the Bible belt fail to see the new truth in the liberation of womankind. Meanwhile, the man still tries to dominate her, telling her to "be polite," and bring him his bottle," etc. Thus the battle of the sexes... I have to confess that I don't get (access) the metaphor of "Petrified wood process Tall timber down to rock." Well, perhaps it has to do with the notion that that which rises (female anima, or a tree) also falls over and petrifies? Thinking about this song is making me thirsty... Hey woman, bring me a beer! Bruce PS Whoa! She just cracked it over my head! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:28:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Steely Dan at UA and tour dates (NJC) > Great review Kakki, as always. I've been a Steely fan since Thrill but when then played in Dublin a >few years ago I didn't go. I had some insane idea that they couldn't do it live. I won't make that >mistake again. Thanks, Philip - I also was under the misimpression for years that they couldn't do it live, but I finally decided to give it a chance since it's so rare that we get to see them. They truly CAN do it live, much to my amazement last night. I think the big key is the contributing army of top drawer superstars who can play the music and are willing to work very hard to pull it off. I've also heard that Becker/Fagen are geniuses at charting the arrangements. It was another "pinch me I'm dreaming" experience to hear many of the songs live after so many years. You and Bob may still have a chance to see this show - here's some stops in your neck of the woods: For a complete list go to http://steelydan.com./2kdates.html July 14 Columbia, MD: Merriwether Post Pavilion July 15 Mansfield, MA: Tweeter Center July 17 Atlanta, GA: Chastain Amphitheater July 18 Atlanta, GA: Chastain Amphitheater July 21 Raleigh, NC: Alltel Pavilion July 22 Manassas, VA: Nissan Pavilion July 23 Virginia Beach, VA: GTE Amphitheater July 25 Sept 6 Glasgow, Scotland: SE&CC Sept 8 Birmingham, England: NEC Sept 9 London, England: Wembley Arena Sept 10 London, England: Wembley Arena Kakki NP: SD - Negative Girl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:46:16 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell (NJC) i definitely think taht something is up with the planets or the whatever....everyone at work has gone somewhat mad too. perplexed and tired, mags Catherine McKay wrote: > --- "Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > > Rev Vince wrote: > > > > >and this was for fun, not to be so damned > > serious... > > > > it seems (IMO) that from > > now on (IMO) I need to preface and append everything > > I say with IMO, > > otherwise everyone will take my posts as being fact > > (IMO) rather than my > > opinion (IMO). > > > > Why does everything have to be taken so damn > > literally all of a sudden? > > It's making me seriously consider whether I actually > > want to stay here. > > Don't you dare leave. If you try, I'm afraid I'm > going to have to kill you. > > (That was a joke. A sick joke. But a joke. IMO.) > > There was a huge solar flare last week - do you > suppose that affects people's attitudes? Excuse me, > gotta go, there are heads that need biting off... > > ===== > Catherine (in Toronto) > catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 15 16:47:47 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Slant rhyme. <> Or like she says about her song "Mr. Blue", the way you disguise a bad lyric is by setting it to a rock and roll beat... I too am enjoying this thread...Joni's rhyme schemes are so various from song to song...if I have time I'm gonna look over her lyrics and see if I can come up with what are my favorite "internal" and "slant" rhymes. What makes her so unique is that even while she's doing all that clever wordsmithing, she has the power to move you in a very meaningful way. Roberto mentioned Sondheim, who is also extremely gifted & clever but sometimes let his gimmickry get in the way of writing a meaningful melody or an emotional song. Certainly don't mean that as a negative against him as he IS a brilliant writer, just not as consistently brilliant as Joni! Bob NP: Jonatha Brooke, "the choice" (Why does everybody put their song titles in lower case? Does upper case cost more to print or something? :~D) ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 15 17:05:45 2000 From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: metheny-njc I haven't completely followed this thread, but Kenny G is NOT a jazz artist. Most people are confused about this, as this whole "smooth jazz" stuff isn't actually jazz at all. This 'music', and I use that term loosely, does contain improvisation, but that doesn't make it jazz. Personally, Kenny G's noodling drives me mad. He doesn't swing, which is the main criteria of any jazz musician. - Scott CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: Phil, You are right. I look at it like this..Pat plays deep technical jazz where as Kenny G plays commerical basic jazz. They both are jazz but one is more advanced then the other. I also feel that either Kenny G sold out for the commercial fame or never really had it in him to begin with meaning he could never be a technical jazz performer. Catgirl not ONE Kenny G Cd and about TEN Pat Metheny ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 15 17:05:54 2000 From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: metheny-njc I haven't completely followed this thread, but Kenny G is NOT a jazz artist. Most people are confused about this, as this whole "smooth jazz" stuff isn't actually jazz at all. This 'music', and I use that term loosely, does contain improvisation, but that doesn't make it jazz. Personally, Kenny G's noodling drives me mad. He doesn't swing, which is the main criteria of any jazz musician. - Scott CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: Phil, You are right. I look at it like this..Pat plays deep technical jazz where as Kenny G plays commerical basic jazz. They both are jazz but one is more advanced then the other. I also feel that either Kenny G sold out for the commercial fame or never really had it in him to begin with meaning he could never be a technical jazz performer. Catgirl not ONE Kenny G Cd and about TEN Pat Metheny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:13:32 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Neil Young on VH-1 (NJC) Hey, Hey, Neil Young fans. I just heard on the radio that he will be featured on VH-1 Legends tonight. I think it's 10:00 p.m.CST, but you might want to check local listings. Enjoy, Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:13:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Kenny G (NJC) I've never owned a Kenny G album and only have heard his music peripherally in the background on cool jazz radio stations. But all this strong reaction to him has actually made me very curious to check him out if for no other reason than hear what others are saying. LOL. One thing I did know about him for years is that he donates substantial time to helping out various charities and causes, large and small. He used to play nearly every local benefit in the small beach communities out here and I always had the impression of him as being a generous guy. Maybe he commits "mortal musical sins", but he seems like a pretty decent person. While checking out his bio on the web I found this with regard to use of the Armstrong performance (which will either soften the blow a bit or perhaps further incite people! ;-D "Kenny has taken his mission to inspire others one dramatic step further: Concurrent with the release of Classics in the Key of G, and in special commemoration of all the artists who have had a profound effect on his work, Kenny has created his own special charitable network, "The Kenny G Miracles Foundation." This newly formed organization is dedicated to promoting and exposing underserved youth to arts and music appreciation nationally, and has been established by Kenny to help restore or expand programs in areas where community school budgets have been reduced or even eliminated. A single from the Classics recording, the popular ballad, "What A Wonderful World," -- featuring the "duet" between Kenny G and Louis Armstrong -- will be released in June, 1999, with 100% of the profits going to the new Foundation. "I was devastated to learn how badly our national music and arts programs had been drastically reduced in the last few years," said Kenny. "The Foundation's goal is to help ensure today's budding musicians will be able to obtain the same positive encouragement, inspiration and confidence that I received when I was in school," he added." Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #333 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?