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Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #329
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JMDL Digest         Wednesday, June 14 2000         Volume 2000 : Number 329



The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be
found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news,
a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more.
---
The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
---
Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations
going directly towards the upkeep of the <JoniMitchell.com> website.
Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US
to help Jim continue.

If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks
payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to:

Ashara Stansfield
P.O. Box 215
Topsfield, MA. 01983
USA
==========

TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC                     ["Kakki" <KakkiB@worldnet.att.net>]
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC                        [Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>]
  more quotes                         ["Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>]
  In her own words                    ["Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>]
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC                     ["Kakki" <KakkiB@worldnet.att.net>]
  guitar orchestra from Taming the Tiger ?  ["James Phillips" <jamespatrick7]
  Re: Passion Play and Saskatoon                 [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)]
  Re: guitar orchestra from Taming the Tiger ?  [Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.c]
  (vljc) Many answers to many Q's            ["Susan" <susang@mail.fadc.com>]
  Re: Joni Day In The Garden...one more thing...          [SCJoniGuy@aol.com]
  Re: (vljc) Many answers to many Q's                     [SCJoniGuy@aol.com]
  Kenny G (NJC)                            [Steve Dulson <steve@psitech.com>]
  Re: Steely Dan (SJC)                                   [peves@marlboro.edu]
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC                                       [FredNow@aol.com]
  Re: The Last Time I Saw Dickhead (SJC)  ["Steve Mitchell" <stevie.mitch@bt]
  Re: (vljc) Many answers to many Q's                      [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
  Re: Passion Play and Saskatoon (md)                       [MDESTE1@aol.com]
  Re: more quotes                                          [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC            ["Victor Johnson" <waytoblu@mindspring.com>]
  Lower Levels of Hell                [Vince Lavieri <revrvl@pathwaynet.com>]
  Metheny NJC                         ["Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>]
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC                                    [CaTGirl627@aol.com]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell            [Mark Domyancich <Harpua@revealed.net>]
  Adrienne Barbeau Strikes Again                              [SMEBD@aol.com]
  Re: Adrienne Barbeau Strikes Again   ["C.A. Starkey" <janisc@mail.ptd.net>]
  Re: Adrienne Barbeau Strikes Again                          [SMEBD@aol.com]
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC                     ["Kakki" <KakkiB@worldnet.att.net>]
  RE: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz?  why i love the jmdl <njc>  ["p]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell                                    [FMYFL@aol.com]
  Tyrant Eat Tyrant                  ["Michael Bird" <mbirdny@earthlink.net>]
  Re: Pat Metheny NJC              ["James L. Leonard" <jll@tampabay.rr.com>]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell         [Scott and Jody <johnsonjs@earthlink.net>]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell                                   [JRMCo1@aol.com]
  OOOPS!                           [Scott and Jody <johnsonjs@earthlink.net>]
  Re: Tyrant Eat Tyrant            ["James L. Leonard" <jll@tampabay.rr.com>]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell                 [Janet Hess <hessj@ix.netcom.com>]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell               [Gary Zack <garyzack@ameritech.net>]
  Conan on Kenny G (NJC)                                 [Murphycopy@aol.com]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell   NJC                           [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell            [Mark Domyancich <Harpua@revealed.net>]
  Re: Lower Levels of Hell   NJCNJCNJCNJC                    [JRMCo1@aol.com]
  Re: the other two                     ["P. Henry" <badwolff@angelfire.com>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:04:24 -0700
From: "Kakki" <KakkiB@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

Don, you wrote:

> If I remember correctly, wouldn't the plaintiff in
> such a case have to prove "reckless disregard for the
> truth", which is really libel more than defamation --
> since Pat's comments appeared in print, yes?  But hey,
> you're the lawyer, not me! ;-)

I'm not a lawyer but have worked on cases involving business defamation
which is different from libel.

> In any case, Pat's comments, at least to me, don't
> rise to that standard.  Consider what Pat "said":
>
> Kenny G DOES "play consistently sharp".  I may not be
> a lawyer, but I do have perfect pitch.

You can't just pick out and isolate each criticism in a vacumn and determine
the truth of each bit.  Metheny said a lot of other things that taken as a
whole, in the context that he placed them have a pretty scathing effect.
Imagine if a local musician in your town, who was known for the same genre
of music as you and theorectically your competitor, ranted publically about
you to all the local newspapers using the same exact series of words that
Metheny did.  That could possibly be considered "business defamation."   In
addition, someone making a widely public statement that they are "going to
wrap a guitar around someone's head the next time they see him" could also
serve to prove the point that his intent is malicious and meant to bring
harm to that person or that person's reputation.  The actual talent or lack
thereof of the person harmed would most likely be irrelevant and not
considered at all in the court proceedings.  To people who don't know the
intricacies of music biz contracts, Metheny's statements may give the false
impression that KG did something legally improper by utilizing the Armstrong
work. Since we have to assume that KG did acquire legal rights to use the
performance, an inference that he "stole" something could possibly border on
slander/libel.  Ultimately KG would have to show that he was damaged by
Metheny's remarks and that may or may not be difficult to prove.

Like I said, I'm not a lawyer, and this is just all hypothetical discussion
and not meant to say that anyone should sue anyone else.  But back to my
original point - Metheny's comments made me cringe for him.

Kakki

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:20:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

- --- Kakki <KakkiB@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Ultimately KG would have to show
> that he was damaged by
> Metheny's remarks and that may or may not be
> difficult to prove.

More difficult than not I'd imagine, given the recent
Jazz Award accolades and those stratospheric sales
numbers ... have you looked in on Pat Metheny's
"Response To The Response" section on his website yet?
 Considerably toned down -- he sticks to his guns --
but not in a way that'd make you cringe like that
first one.  He makes a very Joni-esque "dancing about
architecture" sort of argument that was pretty
interesting.

Oh, and sorry to have called you a lawyer! ;-)

Don Rowe

=====
"I do not object to others hiding from history.  What I object to are others hiding history from ME."

- -- Shelby Foote

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:59:07 -0700
From: "Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>
Subject: more quotes

And here is another one related to DED & the techno 80's sound--

"Dog Eat Dog is really the only exception, and that was a difficult project
in that I had a new husband who was young and ambitious and a new engineer
who was young and ambitious and Thomas Dolby, who was supposed to set up
colors - but behind my back had been given the position of producer by my
manager - who then became a tyrant... that was a very difficult record to
make. I can't even really tell myself what I played, looking back. The
sounds... like I say, they weren't necessarily of my choosing."

Kate Bennett
Singer/Songwriter
www.katebennett.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:59:05 -0700
From: "Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>
Subject: In her own words

Here are a few quotes I was just reading that echo some recent discussions:

Kenny G isn't the only one with pitch problems--

"Feddie thinks I have perfect pitch. I don't. I think I have intermittent
perfect pitch. I have spells of it. Which is horrible, because there are no
perfect tones out there and you get driven crazy by the undulations. I'll go
put my heroes on - I'll play Miles, and his pitch is all over the place."

Who deserves to play what--

"Charles called to me from his death bed and I just had to do that, for my
own education in music. Back then I didn't even like Charles's music. It was
blues-based, and I wasn't into the blues. And it was cacophonous. I became a
fan, of course, but there were a lot of jazz guys saying "Hey, you don't
even like his music. Why'd he send for you?" But I really liked him so
much."

Kate Bennett
Singer/Songwriter
www.katebennett.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:19:40 -0700
From: "Kakki" <KakkiB@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

Don wrote:

>... have you looked in on Pat Metheny's
> "Response To The Response" section on his website yet?
>  Considerably toned down -- he sticks to his guns --
> but not in a way that'd make you cringe like that
> first one.  He makes a very Joni-esque "dancing about
> architecture" sort of argument that was pretty
> interesting.

Ha!  Sounds like maybe a lawyer out there is already counseling on "damage
control". ;-)

> Oh, and sorry to have called you a lawyer! ;-)

Apology accepted ;-D

Kakki

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:03:27 EST
From: "James Phillips" <jamespatrick7556@hotmail.com>
Subject: guitar orchestra from Taming the Tiger ?

Okay,

I'm going to come off really ignorant here but can someone define what a 
"guitar orchestra" is that Joni is credited as playing on Harlem in Havana 
and Lead Baloon on Taming the Tiger?  I would appreciate any insight as to 
this question.

James Phillips jamespatrick7556@hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)
Subject: Re: Passion Play and Saskatoon

David Mingus writes:

<<I've always placed Joni as the one in the sycamore tree>>

It just dawned on me that maybe not everyone has read some of the
Scriptural text that goes along with Joni's Passion Play.  The following
text is verbatim, including parentheses, but starred are PP lyrics, from
the Living Bible (an easier, more accessible read that KJ, NIV or NAS
versions.)  (don't worry, not that long or heavy! ;-)

As Jesus was passing through Jericho, a man named Zacchaeus, one of the
most influential Jews in the Roman tax-collecting business (and, of
course, a very rich man), **a sinner of some position** tried to get a
look at Jesus, **who in the world can this heart healer be--This magical
physician** but he was to short to see over the crowds.  **from the
middle of unrest**  So he ran ahead and climbed into a sycamore tree
beside the road, to watch from there. **I am up a sycamore--looking
through the leaves**
When Jesus came by, he looked up at Zacchaeus and called him by name!
"Zacchaeus!" He said.  "Quick!  Come down!  **Oh, climb down, climb down
he says to me**  For I am going to be a guest in your home today!"
Zacchaeus hurriedly climbed down and took Jesus to his house in great
excitement and joy.
But the crowds were displeased.  "He has gone to be the guest of a
notorious sinner," they grumbled.  **They think His light squandered**
Meanwhile, Zacchaeus stood before the Lord and said, "Sir, from now on I
will give half my wealth to the poor, and if I have overcharged anyone
on his taxes, I will penalize myself by giving him back four times as
much!"  **And I see how far I've wandered**
Jesus told him, This shows that salvation has come to this home today.
This man was one of the lost sons of Abraham, and I, the Messiah, have
come to search for and to save such souls as his."  **But He sees a
stray in the wilderness**

Luke 19: 1-10----PP verses two and three 


<<looking out feeling as if her sins of life are(n't) really all that
bad compared to............. So in her own free style she is much closer
to redemption then they could ever be!>>

Maybe this is Joni's attitude...that redemption is somehow awarded on a
righteousness curve, but I don't see proof of that kind of arrogance,
bitterness or contempt conveyed in this song's lyrics.  At most, is an
attitude of mocking depending to whom ever she's addressing the question
"Now you tell me--Who're you gonna get to do the dirty work--when all
the slaves are free?"  If she's keeping in line with the way the rest of
the song is written, hopefully she's going after the same sort Jesus
did....the hard hearted and pridefully religious, "the blind guides who
strain out a gnat to swallow a camel"....not to be confused with the
humble and sincerely spiritual followers of Jesus.

Someone else said they don't think of Passion Play as a very up-listing
song.  Personally, I view it as an amazingly sensitive and insightful
history lesson, coming from someone who enjoys learning and
story-telling, no matter what the material source.

Hey, I readily confess I'm not a very good teacher or writer....I hope
some of you other folks that feel they can add in explaining their take
on Passion Play will join in and share.  :-)  This is just too much
fun!!!!  ;-)
  
<<I could go on and on but, on to the show. I'll be at the Saskatoon
opening 
"EXTRAVAGANZA" I hope to meet some of you there. I'll be at the Quality 
Hotel downtown Saskatoon, and I know nothing of the town but can't
wait!!!>>

Yeah, it'll be a kick!  Whether we get to meet Joni or not!  I'm sooo
looking forward to seeing those pieces in person and also meeting other
JMDLers!  And I just called to re-confirm our hotel reservations last
night....at the Bessbourough.  They still have rooms available for those
nights but the prices are a lot higher now than the rates I got when
reserving early....about a US$32 / CND$46 a night increase for the same
room now.  Ouch!  


Peace
Penny

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:30:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Don Rowe <dgrowe227@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: guitar orchestra from Taming the Tiger ?

- --- James Phillips <jamespatrick7556@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm going to come off really ignorant here but can
> someone define what a 
> "guitar orchestra" is that Joni is credited as
> playing on Harlem in Havana 
> and Lead Baloon on Taming the Tiger?  

Though I'm not a VG8 expert, that sounds to me like
the name/title of a "patch" or sound that the
guitar-synth creates as the strings are strummed. 
I've any number of similar titles for the sounds in my
keyboard banks, including:

"Al's Rhodes"
"Lunar Flutes"
"Raw Power"
"Rain Hold"

I'm sure our resident VG8 gurus could confirm or deny
this rather easily ... or is that the VG8 Inner Circle
... I can never be sure. ;-)
Don Rowe

=====
"I do not object to others hiding from history.  What I object to are others hiding history from ME."

- -- Shelby Foote

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:38:52 -0500
From: "Susan" <susang@mail.fadc.com>
Subject: (vljc) Many answers to many Q's

Sometimes I just have to save it all up and respond multiple choice
like:

> The Zoobman wrote:
>
> >Is it Mimi and (I think his name is) Robert Farina? Joan's sister and
> >brother in law?
>
A.   I too originally thought the Robert Altman picture may be Carole
King.  The profile was similar, but now I am inclined to believe that it
may have been Mimi (Baez's sister) and her Sir Gallahad.  I know others
disagree but it makes sense to me.

JM Covers -
 I don't think there is a recording other than video tape of this but I
seem to have a faint memory of the great chanteuse "Adrienne Barbeau"
(spelling?)  performing, with guitar in hand, her interpretation of
"Willy."  I believe it was an old Johnny Carson but it could have been
early Letterman.  Anyone else have this flashback or is it just that?

Metheny vs. Kenny G
Finally, on this Pat Metheny vs. Kenny G thing.  I too believe in anyone
being able to express art.  Unfortunately the most diluted mainstream
stuff gets to the most people.  Because unfortunately the masses can't
handle the intricacies & complexities of many forms of art or ...
anything.  Most people settle for the basic formula garbage.  The
talents of a Metheny, a John Klemmer are rarely recognized as
universally and financially as the works of a Kenny G.  This lesson is
one most of us learned long ago as it pertains to our Ms. Joni!   I too
think Kenny G. is soooo average.  I squirm at the thought of him being
referred to as jazz, but I will defend to the death his right to play it
or whatever it is he's playing!  Just help me do whatever I can not to
hear it myself!  I think Pat Metheny's feelings are justified, they are
his opinion and emotionally I agree but my head knows we can't imprison
anyone else's art or lack there of.

Peace
Susan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:55:24 EDT
From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni Day In The Garden...one more thing...

<< There was a part in Big
 Yellow Taxi where she switches to a Bob Dylan voice and said her wrote that
 verse? That was interesting. Did he work on anything else w/ her? >>

They've done some tours together, she was a part of his Rolling Thunder tour 
in the seventies, he did a cover of "Big Yellow Taxi" (which I don't have 
yet, hint hint) they were both a part of The Band's "Last Waltz" Project, 
they've got quite a bit of history together.

As for Joni's band for that show:

Brian Blade - drums
Larry Klein - bass
Greg Liesz - pedal steel
Mark Isham - trumpet

It's an awesome show - glad to be able to spark those memories for you!

Bob

NP: Shelby Lynne, "Your Lies"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:58:58 EDT
From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com
Subject: Re: (vljc) Many answers to many Q's

<<  I don't think there is a recording other than video tape of this but I
 seem to have a faint memory of the great chanteuse "Adrienne Barbeau"
 (spelling?)  performing, with guitar in hand, her interpretation of
 "Willy." >>

I have no recollection of that one, Susan, but thanks to Stephen we DO have 
her dramatic interpretation of "I Had A King"...it kicks off Volume 4 of the 
"Covers" series and is subtitled "The Power of Cheese"...should be ready for 
tree-ing in about a week. (Got your package today Leslie - thanks!)

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:22:59 -0700
From: Steve Dulson <steve@psitech.com>
Subject: Kenny G (NJC)

Kakki wrote:

>Think of how we would all feel if 40 years or so from now, one of
>the latest junkfood for juvenile groups appropriate Joni's performance of
>Hejira, for example.  We would be livid

Livid? In 40 years? Not me, Kakki, I'm going to die on 2/8/25. :)
(Guess I'd better not book any St. Pat's gigs that year.)


#########################################################
Steve Dulson        Costa Mesa CA       steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"                      http://www.tinkersown.com
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
"The Living Tradition Concert Series"   http://www.thelivingtradition.org/
                         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:56:00 -0400
From: peves@marlboro.edu
Subject: Re: Steely Dan (SJC)

Yep, that's true of Neil , Jim - stylistic experiments,  but in preexisting 
styles. No experiments in terms of musical expansion. It's original and it's 
fantastic music I wouldn't want to live without it - . but it's  not particularly 
innovative.  No new music there as there always is with Joni .

Thanks for connecting.

Peg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:28:11 EDT
From: FredNow@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

In a message dated 6/13/00 3:10:48 AM, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes:

>I completely agree with Metheny's ire but Armstrong's heirs or whoever
>owns the rights to his performances had to have given Kenny G the permission
>to do this.  KG can't just rip it off at whim - at least not without
>significant consequences.  Someone or ones who held the rights are just
>as much responsible for the sell out.

Every standard record contract gives the record company the right to 
unilaterally use the recording in almost any way they see fit; they own it 
and they don't have to consult Armstrong's estate at all, other than to 
report and pay royalties.

>Ah, but while I understand his reaction, all I could think while reading
>it was "eesch, I've seen people successfully win defamation suits on far less
>than this."

Pat would have several hundred thousand potential witnesses for his defense.

- -Fred

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:41:26 +0100
From: "Steve Mitchell" <stevie.mitch@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: The Last Time I Saw Dickhead (SJC)

I thought that this was the funniest thing that I have read (and howled
along to for a long time . . . . .
- --
Stevie

NP: Hejira (naturally)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:40:16 EDT
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: (vljc) Many answers to many Q's

In a message dated 6/13/00 5:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
susang@mail.fadc.com writes:

<< >Is it Mimi and (I think his name is) Robert Farina? Joan's sister and
 > >brother in law?
 > >>
Richard Farina, author if "Been Down So Long It Looks Like Up To Me."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:41:25 EDT
From: MDESTE1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Passion Play and Saskatoon (md)

In a message dated 6/13/00 2:20:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
zapuppy2@webtv.net writes:

<< As Jesus was passing through Jericho, a man named Zacchaeus, one of the
 most influential Jews in the Roman tax-collecting business (and, of
 course, a very rich man), **a sinner of some position** tried to get a
 look at Jesus, **who in the world can this heart healer be--This magical
 physician** but he was to short to see over the crowds.  **from the
 middle of unrest**  So he ran ahead and climbed into a sycamore tree
 beside the road, to watch from there. **I am up a sycamore--looking
 through the leaves**
 When Jesus came by, he looked up at Zacchaeus and called him by name!
 "Zacchaeus!" He said.  "Quick!  Come down!  **Oh, climb down, climb down
 he says to me**  For I am going to be a guest in your home today!"
 Zacchaeus hurriedly climbed down and took Jesus to his house in great
 excitement and joy.
 But the crowds were displeased.  "He has gone to be the guest of a
 notorious sinner," they grumbled.  **They think His light squandered**
 Meanwhile, Zacchaeus stood before the Lord and said, "Sir, from now on I
 will give half my wealth to the poor, and if I have overcharged anyone
 on his taxes, I will penalize myself by giving him back four times as
 much!"  **And I see how far I've wandered**
 Jesus told him, This shows that salvation has come to this home today.
 This man was one of the lost sons of Abraham, and I, the Messiah, have
 come to search for and to save such souls as his."  **But He sees a
 stray in the wilderness**
 
 Luke 19: 1-10----PP verses two and three 
  >>

I think that this is just an excellent job well done. It sure would appear 
that this is precisely what Joni herself did in writing the lyrics to the 
song if not more so. As for the conclusion ( stated here )

<<Maybe this is Joni's attitude...that redemption is somehow awarded on a
righteousness curve, but I don't see proof of that kind of arrogance,
bitterness or contempt conveyed in this song's lyrics.>>>

because after all Joni asks in Jobs Sad Song "Why do you crucify the Saints". 
So a righteous lifestyle isnt a guarantee and Joni herself knows it. In any 
event this was a very good way of seeing how Joni sculpted the lyrics out of 
the whole cloth of the New Testament verse. As for the "meaning" of the 
lyrics in this song my own take as an experienced songwriter is that Lyrics 
are the most difficult part of any song to create if you are into melody. I 
sense that Joni is a writer who begins with the music and then tries to find 
words to fit her tunes. If her lyrical idea was the first part of this song 
created I dont think she would have found it in a casual reading of the 
Bible. There are all kinds of other stories that it seems odd that she would 
have picked this one unless she happens to attend religious services (an 
interesting question) and got the idea at some service. I would suspect in 
any event that this passage was somehow singled out for her by someone and 
she decided the best way to capture its essence was to paraphrase.

In seeing how the song lyric traces the sequence of events in this chapter I 
sense that Joni did a "paraphrase" treatment. This is but one way to create 
lyrics. Although she could create a million songs this way.

I have always sensed that Joni writes songs in bunches. Its like when she 
discovers a tuning she finds chord pattersn atht work and she perhaps 
captures them on a tape and then goes back later to find the words for that 
particular song idea. She seems to reach a place in either chording or 
strumming that is typical with open tuners. Open tunings have sections on the 
fretboard all their own in which various combinations of finger placement 
create specific melodic patterns. Deviate from those fingering patterns and 
you dont get a parallel chord. Unlike standard tuning in which an added 
finger here or there creates augmented or diminished, sharp or flat chords 
from the root. Passion Play is what I would call a "groove" song. It settles 
into a groove and runs deep within it. Songs like that generally come from 
fiinding a groove during practicing or casual playing. 

My point here is that this has been an interesting insight to Jonis 
songsmithing itself as opposed to just a take on her meaning. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:44:57 EDT
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: more quotes

In a message dated 6/13/00 4:34:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kate@katebennett.com writes:

<< 
 "Dog Eat Dog is really the only exception, and that was a difficult project
 in that I had a new husband who was young and ambitious and a new engineer
 who was young and ambitious and Thomas Dolby, who was supposed to set up
 colors - but behind my back had been given the position of producer by my
 manager - who then became a tyrant... that was a very difficult record to
 make. I can't even really tell myself what I played, looking back. The
 sounds... like I say, they weren't necessarily of my choosing."
  >>

Sounds to me like even Joni thinks DED sucks. LOL

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:18:02 -0400
From: "Victor Johnson" <waytoblu@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

>>">>
>Perhaps Mr. Metheny could benefit from a listen to
>Frank Zappa's epic instrumental project, aptly titled:
>
>"Shut Up and Play Your Guitar"




I completely agree.  I think Kenny G is getting far too much attention over
this.  Music that is truly beautiful and unique will defend itself.  Perhaps
years and years from now, people will still be listening to Louis Armstrong
and have no idea who Kenny G is or was.

    Several years ago, there was a techno version of King Crimson "I Talk to
the Wind"  released which I thought was pretty pathetic.  These things
happen.

Victor
http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm

NP: HOSL

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:37:28 -0500
From: Vince Lavieri <revrvl@pathwaynet.com>
Subject: Lower Levels of Hell

One may not (I don't) believe in a literal hell... or eternal bliss with
God (I do)...

...but if indeed God must be a boogie player of either/both genders, or
transcends gender as the deity subsumes all gender distinctions into the
innate God-ness,

then certainly at the front table, on the dais, of heaven, will be among
others, Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell,  Neil Young, John Lennon, Aretha
Franklin, Otis Redding, Mozart, Verdi, Glenn Miller, Louis Armstrong,
Ethel Waters, Puccini, and Bach, and the Aleutian Island throat singers.

Paul McCartney will be at the kids table as penance for Silly Love
Songs.
Ringo will be there also since he'll keep the kids table fun.

George will be at the 2nd table, having just missed the first table.
(Plagiarism of "He's So Fine" is  a table penalty.)

The JMDL can easily fill out the rest of the tables (I figure 40 tables,
20 per table).

It is musical hell that concerns this.

The lowest level of hell is reserved for Kenny G, Zamphere on the pan
flute, Kenny Rogers, Lionel Ritchie, Richard Harris (McArthurs Park will
do that to a guy) and Bobby McFarrin (now that he has sold the rights to
Don't Worry, Be Happy to the singing plastic bass fish wall mount that
is inflicting bars and homes everywhere)..

Karen Carpenter gets into heaven (that voice!) but Richard Carpenter
gets dropped into an upper level of hell for those awful arrangements.

Penultimate level of hell is for ABBA and all other Swedish pop groups
passing pabulum on to preteens.

Antepenultimate level of hell is for Iron Maiden Black Sabbath Mettalica
Twisted Sister Ronnie James Dio Dokken and all other hair metal bands
that are indistinguishable from each other, but wonderful at marketing.
(Ronnie Jasmes Dio had great talent but failed to transcend the pit of
heavy metal big hair rock.)

Getting out of hell passes will go to  Iggy Pop for the astounding
drumming on that song from Trainspotting.

Elton John is hard to place.  Heaven, for everything pre Disney (except
for Island Girl and Philadelphia Freedom) but Hell for the Disney
schlock.

I await the corrections on this.

(the Rev) Vince

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:07:27 -0700
From: "Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>
Subject: Metheny NJC

Hi Fred,

I am very aware of the whole picture. I understand why Metheny is upset and
I know the difference between recording someone else's song or recording on
top of someone's work. My mention of Bolton/Redding was not meant to be
analogous.

What I was attempting to convey was that although I understand and agree
with Metheny's objection to what Kenny G did, he did not win me over with
his personality or his way with words. But my main point was perhaps I was
disappointed in his attitude because his music is so elevating.

Kate Bennett
Singer/Songwriter
www.katebennett.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:45:43 EDT
From: CaTGirl627@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

In a message dated 6/13/2000 3:43:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
FredNow@aol.com writes:

<< ate, perhaps you are not aware of the whole picture here ... it's not 
 analogous to Bolton merely singing Redding, but rather as if Bolton had 
taken 
 Redding's vocal and recorded himself on top of it, positioning himself as 
 Redding's worthy equal. That's what Kenny G did. In fact, he even performed 
 his Armstrong desecration live synchronized with a film of Louis singing the 
 song. This crosses so far over the line of decency and integrity that 
vitriol 
 is the appropriate response. Metheny isn't being arrogant, he's standing up 
 to gross artistic injustice. Sometimes the shit gets so thick that someone 
 has to "roar like forest fire."
 
 -Fred Simon >>
Wow Fred,
I always beleaved in Pat Metheny and now more then ever.  He is a man of 
character and has always played his music from the heart.  I have alot of 
respect for people who follow their own heart and not what the public wants.
Catgirl

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:32:00 -0500
From: Mark Domyancich <Harpua@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell

At 7:37 PM -0500 6/13/00, Vince Lavieri wrote:
>One may not (I don't) believe in a literal hell... or eternal bliss with
>God (I do)...
>
>...but if indeed God must be a boogie player of either/both genders, or
>transcends gender as the deity subsumes all gender distinctions into the
>innate God-ness,
>
>then certainly at the front table, on the dais, of heaven, will be among
>others, Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell,  Neil Young, John Lennon, Aretha
>Franklin, Otis Redding, Mozart, Verdi, Glenn Miller, Louis Armstrong,
>Ethel Waters, Puccini, and Bach, and the Aleutian Island throat singers.

and also, Jerry Garcia (he's already there, we know that) Mickey Hart 
and Phil Lesh, and Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds for his god-like 
guitar playing, Trey Anastasio as well, and Carlos Santana.

>Paul McCartney will be at the kids table as penance for Silly Love
>Songs.
>Ringo will be there also since he'll keep the kids table fun.

And also, Bob Weir for his attempt at children's songs.

>The lowest level of hell is reserved for Kenny G, Zamphere on the pan
>flute, Kenny Rogers, Lionel Ritchie, Richard Harris (McArthurs Park will
>do that to a guy) and Bobby McFarrin (now that he has sold the rights to
>Don't Worry, Be Happy to the singing plastic bass fish wall mount that
>is inflicting bars and homes everywhere)..

Ooh, too many to list here, Brittney Spears, N-Sync, etc, etc,...

(Great thread, Rev)


- -- 
Mark Domyancich
Harpua@revealed.net
tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:07:32 EDT
From: SMEBD@aol.com
Subject: Adrienne Barbeau Strikes Again

In a message dated 06/13/2000 5:47:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
susang@mail.fadc.com writes:

<< I don't think there is a recording other than video tape of this but I
 seem to have a faint memory of the great chanteuse "Adrienne Barbeau"
 (spelling?)  performing, with guitar in hand, her interpretation of
 "Willy."  I believe it was an old Johnny Carson but it could have been
 early Letterman.  Anyone else have this flashback or is it just that?
  >>

Do I smell more cheese?  Where is my cheese knife?  With any luck Bob, 
Hickory Farms could be making a delivery to your house once again  :-)

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:15:56 -0400
From: "C.A. Starkey" <janisc@mail.ptd.net>
Subject: Re: Adrienne Barbeau Strikes Again

What's wrong with Adrienne Barbeau? I'm not aware of her singing ability, but
I enjoy watching her as Bea Arthur's daughter, "Carol" on Maude.  She
couldn't be as bad
as William Shatner doing "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" Now with those
Priceline commercials, he's
suddenly hip singing those songs out of tune.

Carol

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:30:59 EDT
From: SMEBD@aol.com
Subject: Re: Adrienne Barbeau Strikes Again

In a message dated 06/13/2000 9:14:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
janisc@mail.ptdprolog.net writes:

<< What's wrong with Adrienne Barbeau? I'm not aware of her singing ability >>

...and neither is anyone else!  :-D

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:01:10 -0700
From: "Kakki" <KakkiB@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

Fred wrote:

> Every standard record contract gives the record company >the right to
unilaterally use the recording in almost any way >they see fit; they own it
and they don't have to consult >Armstrong's estate at all, other than to
report and pay >royalties.

Hmmm, that may be true of "standard" contracts but I've seen numerous of
agreements where the artist personally has to approve and sign off on the
use of a song or performance.  Also, some rights descend to the heirs for a
fixed amount of years.

For the record, I don't mind at all when Joni skewers the music biz
generally but when she names names, I also cringe.  She and Metheny should
be above that kind of thing.

Kakki

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:55:56 -0400
From: "patrick leader" <patrickl@bway.net>
Subject: RE: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz?  why i love the jmdl <njc>

one of the reasons i love the jmdl is the rashes of wonderful writing that
certain subjects inspire.  this piece was so sweet, so smooth, pat, so damn
well written...  i've loved every word david lahm and fred simon have
written on the subject.

so have one thing to add.  david lahm asked harper lou:

- --Isn't there some kind of music that is very dear to you, very inspiring to
you, very warming and nourishing to you which you would not like to see
trashed and adulterated by people's using its name to advertise ANOTHER kind
of music, which does NOT inspire and nourish your soul?

so harper, i need your address, so i can send you my special box-set of
<britney spears - the celtic collection>.  by the way, it's the least i can
do for you, after inspiring me to go out and get an astro van with a cd
player, which is currently tied to a fire hydrant, east 4th street.  to my
friends who have said "well, that was impractical, patrick" i've said

- --"To the stocks!  To the stocks!!!!"

patrick

np - mark isham - blue sun


>the blues cut.  they are sharp.  they bend and slice.  they are despairing.
>
>rock is beat.  it pounds.  drives.  controls the space of the room.
>
>folk is heart.  expression.  giving.  hopefull.  but simple too.
>
>jazz is freefall.  realtime.  a journey uncharted.  smooth.  if sad, not
>despairing.  if bent, not unyielding.  if beat, not pounding.
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:08:30 EDT
From: FMYFL@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell

In a message dated 06/13/2000 7:39:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes:

<< Penultimate level of hell is for ABBA and all other Swedish pop groups
 passing pabulum on to preteens.
  >>

Well I guess I enjoy hell quite a bit Vince :~)

Jimmy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:19:56 -0500
From: "Michael Bird" <mbirdny@earthlink.net>
Subject: Tyrant Eat Tyrant

Does this mean that Dolby was the tyrant, or the manager?  Dolby played on
CMIARS, they couldn't have been that estranged ...

Nickel Chief

- ----------
>From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest)
>To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org
>Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #246
>Date: Tue, Jun 13, 2000, 7:33 PM
>

> "Dog Eat Dog is really the only exception, and that was a difficult project
> in that I had a new husband who was young and ambitious and a new engineer
> who was young and ambitious and Thomas Dolby, who was supposed to set up
> colors - but behind my back had been given the position of producer by my
> manager - who then became a tyrant... that was a very difficult record to
> make. I can't even really tell myself what I played, looking back. The
> sounds... like I say, they weren't necessarily of my choosing."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:42:32 -0700
From: "James L. Leonard" <jll@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny NJC

Good for you, Kakki.

I was wondering when someone would point out that Joni has often been guilty
of the same transgression, and usually with far less justification than is
currently the case with Metheny (i.e. the rape of the Armstrong recording).
Many of Joni's "observations" regarding the talents of other artists are
chronicled in the books of Brian Hinton and Stacey Luftig, both of which
I've just recently devoured.

"Boston Jim"

> For the record, I don't mind at all when Joni skewers the music biz
> generally but when she names names, I also cringe.  She and Metheny should
> be above that kind of thing.
>
> Kakki

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:44:36 -0500
From: Scott and Jody <johnsonjs@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell

Vince wrote:

> >...but if indeed God must be a boogie player of either/both genders, or
> >transcends gender as the deity subsumes all gender distinctions into the
> >innate God-ness,
> >
> >then certainly at the front table, on the dais, of heaven, will be among
> >others, Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell,  Neil Young, John Lennon, Aretha
> >Franklin, Otis Redding, Mozart, Verdi, Glenn Miller, Louis Armstrong,
> >Ethel Waters, Puccini, and Bach, and the Aleutian Island throat singers.
>
I would also include Laura Nyro.  I brought this post up with my
vicarious jmdl husband, scott.  Here's his response:  " Vince, you need
more levels of hell( Dante had 9?) to accommodate the volume of bad
music ;~)

You also wrote:

> Getting out of hell passes will go to  Iggy Pop for the astounding
> drumming on that song from Trainspotting.
>
>
Funny , we both replied, That Iggy Pop would most likely decline that
promotion :~)"

I also agree with Mark, that Jerry Garcia(already there at the
table),Mickey Hart and Phil Lesh be there as well. They've done so much
for 'starving' artists', not to mention our 'Starving Planet'.

Peace,
jody & scott

------------------------------

Date: Wed Jun 14 00:18:21 2000
From: JRMCo1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell

Surely, seated at Her right hand, next to my Jesus, is Marian Andersen. Unearned suffering is redemptive, you know. Billie's there on eternal holiday. The Fab Four will be there, naturally, but Paul gets to eat fattened beetle larvae as an apetizer (penance for pinning on Wings without having earned them).  Jim Croce is there feasting on time from a bottle like there's no tomorrow. Patsy Cline's there, I'm sure. Robert Johnson, too (sold his soul, but Anne Murray bought it back for him). Laura Nyro's there (perhaps it's actually a stoned-soul picnic).

I leave hell's belles to someone else's sooth-saying.  I pray it's not truly for children, as Pat Benatar swears.  Patti B. herself isn't worthy of crumbs off the table. But since the merciful are to be shown mercy, she can sit to a wretch, like me!  if you want us we'll be at bar.  (Wine.  We'll be drinking wine from the cup of salvation, okay?)   

<<The JMDL can easily fill out the rest of the tables>>

Preaching to the choir here, Rev. ;-)

- -Julius

np: Andre Crouch and the Disciples "To God Be the Glory."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:29:57 -0500
From: Scott and Jody <johnsonjs@earthlink.net>
Subject: OOOPS!

Sorry,

My last post in response to "Lower Levels of Hell" did not include NJC
as a tag. I apologize.  Damn, it's just so easy to click on reply
without thinkin'.

Regards,
jody

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:33:41 -0700
From: "James L. Leonard" <jll@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Tyrant Eat Tyrant

I have this fantasy (which I mentioned on the list a couple of weeks ago)
that DED and CMIARS may have shared some of the same sessions, and that
there may even have originally been a "duet" album in the planning stages
(of which only "Good Friends" with Michael McDonald was used on DED). This
may explain Dolby's "continued" presence on CMIARS, as well as all the other
"duets."

Just mindless conjecture on my part. :)

"Boston Jim"

> > Does this mean that Dolby was the tyrant, or the manager?  Dolby played
on
> > CMIARS, they couldn't have been that estranged ...
> >
> > Nickel Chief
> >
> > ----------
> > >From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest)
> > >To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org
> > >Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #246
> > >Date: Tue, Jun 13, 2000, 7:33 PM
> > >
> >
> > > "Dog Eat Dog is really the only exception, and that was a difficult
> project
> > > in that I had a new husband who was young and ambitious and a new
> engineer
> > > who was young and ambitious and Thomas Dolby, who was supposed to set
up
> > > colors - but behind my back had been given the position of producer by
> my
> > > manager - who then became a tyrant... that was a very difficult record
> to
> > > make. I can't even really tell myself what I played, looking back. The
> > > sounds... like I say, they weren't necessarily of my choosing."
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:46:21 -0400
From: Janet Hess <hessj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell

Also at that front table, although not sitting, is Michael Hedges, dancing
a manic dance with a guitar that seems somehow even more heavenly than his
usual down-here guitar

At 07:37 PM 6/13/2000 -0500, Vince Lavieri wrote:
<snip>
>...but if indeed God must be a boogie player of either/both genders, or
>transcends gender as the deity subsumes all gender distinctions into the
>innate God-ness,
>
>then certainly at the front table, on the dais, of heaven, will be among
>others, Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell,  Neil Young, John Lennon, Aretha
>Franklin, Otis Redding, Mozart, Verdi, Glenn Miller, Louis Armstrong,
>Ethel Waters, Puccini, and Bach, and the Aleutian Island throat singers.
>
<snip>
- --------
You've got to shake your fists at lightning now
You've got to roar like forest fire
You've got to spread your light like blazes
All across the sky

Joni Mitchell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:05:03 -0400
From: Gary Zack <garyzack@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell

Let's hear it for Laura Nyro!!  My black angel, second in my book only
to Joni!  I was devastated when she passed away.  She was wonderful!
Thanks for mentioning such an underrated wonderful talent!

Gary (protea man)

...meet me Captain St. Lucifer, darling I'll be there, dont you know?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:00:10 EDT
From: Murphycopy@aol.com
Subject: Conan on Kenny G (NJC)

In his monologue tonight, Conan O'Brien mentioned that Kenny G  "took home 
six Billboard awards." (One or two people clapped and a few more booed.) Then 
Conan said that the artists who had actually won the awards wanted them back.

    -- Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:08:46 EDT
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell   NJC

please take this inane thread NJC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:33:39 -0500
From: Mark Domyancich <Harpua@revealed.net>
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell

How could I forget Nick Drake? And Jaco? Both gods of their own instruments.

At 12:46 AM -0400 6/14/00, Janet Hess wrote:
>Also at that front table, although not sitting, is Michael Hedges, dancing
>a manic dance with a guitar that seems somehow even more heavenly than his
>usual down-here guitar

- -- 
Mark Domyancich
Harpua@revealed.net
tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:40:22 EDT
From: JRMCo1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell   NJCNJCNJCNJC

IVPAUL42@aol.com writes:

<< please take this inane thread NJC>>

Oh, for the love of...just don't read the thread, Paul.  Jeez.  And thanks 
for the unsolicited and mean-spirited value judgement.  What a party-pooper.  
Still love you though, bro.

- -Julius

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:57:19 -0700
From: "P. Henry" <badwolff@angelfire.com>
Subject: Re: the other two

 the woman (definitely) is Mimi Farina, Joan 
Baez' sister... the guy is most definately NOT 
John Kay, (way too tall) but may possibly be 
Mimi's husband Richard who wrote a great song 
called "Pack Up Your Sorrows" and authored the 
book "Been Down So Long, It Looks Like Up To 
Me".

 pat

ps - btw, those pics are all 'thumbnail' 
style... if you clik on them you get the big 
one... her's the one he took of Mimi:
http://www2.cea.edu/robert/MimiFarinia.JPEG


>>Anyone know who the other two are?
http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.htmlOkay Paul,
I'm guessing..........John Kay from Steppenwolf
(sure looks like him!!  LOL) and that looks like
the profile of Ms. Carole King....the original BORN TO BE WILD group!
Anyone else???  Anyone? Anyone?
 Laura>>


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

------------------------------

End of JMDL Digest V2000 #329
*****************************

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