From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #326 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, June 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 326 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Did I miss Something?? ["Michael Paz" ] Re: Fwd: OT: your glam name - definitely NJC [Catherine McKay ] Altman Pictures -- THE OTHER TWO [Bounced Message ] Greenpoints Survey = Frequent Flyer Miles = Canada [mann@chicagonet.net] Re:- the concert in CT [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Did I miss Something?? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: It's me the tattle tale, again. NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? [Louis Lynch ] Billboard/BET Jazz Awards - njc [Les Irvin ] Cohen... [Bounced Message ] Re: OT: your glam name - definitely NJC ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Billboard/BET Jazz Awards - njc [michael w yarbrough ] Ian Anderson and Jethro Tull (NJC) ["Victor Johnson" ] Pat Metheny NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] MU chords & Passion Play interpretations ["Kate Bennett" ] metheny/kenny g-round 2 njc [PFallo@aol.com] No need to panic! [Richard Rice ] Re: NJC, bootlegging, my $.02 worth (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] 6,000 people???!!! [Richard Rice ] Re: NJC, bootlegging, my $.02 worth (md) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Greenpoints Survey = Frequent Flyer Miles = Canada (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.c] Queen Lizzie [Scott Price ] Re: NJC, bootlegging, my $.02 worth (md) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: 6,000 people???!!! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? [Dflahm@aol.com] Edith and the Kingpin [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: The first Farm Aid concert [GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com] Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Metheny / Gorelick (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:19:20 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Did I miss Something?? James wrote: "I was noticing a thread about Dog eat dog without the synthesisers. What persuaded me to get that album was footage I have of Joni at the first Farm Aid concert here in Champaign, Ill back in '85. She came out and did with an electric (I think it was an electric) white guitar Three Great Stimulants. Than afterwords, she moved to the piano and did the song Dog eat dog. Seeing her do just those two songs is what persuaded me to get Dog eat dog, even though there were huge differences between the studio versions of those songs and the live versions from Farm Aid." Did I miss something? Is there tape or video of this? Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:30:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fwd: OT: your glam name - definitely NJC - --- jan gyn wrote: > get your partae name here: > -jan (AKA 'Ginchy Featherpants') > > > http://qix.lm.com/cgi-bin/fun/glamname.pl > How silly! Sincerely, Ferrari Glittercake ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:08:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC, bootlegging, my $.02 worth <> Well, now we're talking two different issues; recording a concert and making it available either for sale or trade does indeed not infringe on any money that the artist would have made. I have lots of unauthorized recordings of Joni, as do most of us...I also have bought every thing she's ever released commercially, most of it twice as I replaced albums with compact discs. The real problem is when one is making copies of the commercial stuff and selling or trading - THEN it's very illegal and immoral. The problem is, while OUR generation debates it, the generations coming after us have NO PROBLEM with dubbing the latest Metallica or DMX or whoever, and even downloading it using Napster or like software so that infinite copies can be made from a copy that wasn't even bought in the first place! Believe me, because I hang around with 13-14 year olds, both on my baseball team and my son's friends. Even the best of them have NO MORALS when it comes to this issue. They DO NOT hesitate to dub a commercial CD for a friend. And I'm hearing that maybe this is OK if an artist is a million-seller but not OK if the artist is a struggling indy. IMO, it doesn't matter who it is, in theory, like Fred says, it is THEFT pure & simple... So far, the industry has their head in the sand on the issue, but it will consume them I'm afraid, or drive prices up even higher for those of us who play by the rules. The CD blanks I have to buy for my Philips CD burner cost about twice as much as a CDR...my understanding is that the extra monies go to some sort of BMI/ASCAP fund to be distributed to recording artists. Not sure if I believe that or not... Anyway, sorry to ramble, but as I burn about 30 discs a week for you guys it's a subject that's near and dear to my heart. Bob NP: Tony Bennett, "Nice Work If You Can Get It" (from a CD that I paid full price for! ;-D) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:10:42 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: It's me the tattle tale, again. Morning fellow Joni-ites. I just got off the phone with Fred Walecki of Westwood Music. Again! He was gracious enough to call and ask how I am doing with my fabulous, new, shinny aerodynamically balanced Parker guitar. Since only I know how badly I play, I was embarassed enough for the both of us. Still, it was very kind of him to give a ring! How do I rate to be so lucky as to have one of Joni's closest friends and Luthier give ME a ring? Yeesh, there are certainly many more worthy (!!!)... Anyway, here's a bit of what went on, juicy enough to share with the rest of the list... First, I am sad to report that Mr. Walecki has lost his voice box and has to speak with the aid of a mechanical voice box. But his health is much improved and he still has the same bubbling energy and gift for gab. I guess when they check his DNA, he and Joni will probably share the same gene sequences there. His love of Joni is most apparent. And he is a living treasure trove of information on her and music in general. I managed to get in two questions with him. The first about Saskatoon. No, he has no plans on attending the opening. When you see the paintings every day, it kills the need for travel, I suppose. Besides, that date will be a very busy time for his store. Still, my hopes run high that he will change his mind and go. I, for one would love to thank him for Greenpeace. Without his efforts she would have retired. TI, TTT and BSN might never have happened. Not Joni related, directly: Fred is taking part in organizing a huge bash/conference/reunion of all the major sixties performers to be held (?) Aug. 8th and 9th. It is going to be HUGE. And did I tell you it's going to be HUGE? Fred was very excited about pulling off this one. I can't imagine them doing this without Joni being front and center. This will be a spectacular event. --Paz, perhaps you could use some of your magnificent connections in the industry and get seats for say, 600 of us??? I'm not sure if this is just a private bash or what, but it would be nice to hear more about it. Imagine, Joni, CSNY, et all gathered for a grand trip down memory lane. (I can just see her tussling with Jackson Browne back behind a canope or something. --Ooops. Did I just say that?) Anyway, gather informants and lets find out more! My second question opened up even grander possibilities... I offered again how fantastic it would be to have one (or both!) Joni sites interview Fred. Even with my limited ability to engage the man regarding music, it is obvious that he would make for a fantastic interview. He loves to gab. He loves to tell stories "from the inside." He knows Joni's music like nothing doing. And, he's one of her longest, bestest (?!) of friends. His answer, in typical high energy, Walecki fashion was, hey, sure. But why not make it cooler and get Joni in on the mix? He would be willing to talk with Joni's management. They could arrange a joint interview. Set up a room, make a party of it and chat with her for an hour or so. Perhaps while she is in Saskatoon. It could even be simulcast on the web... As soon as he said all this, I was in dreamland. Picturing in my mind that I would one of the warm souls invited into that room as well. Dibs on the coner chair! Anyway, there's a grand opportunity here better served by more official or long standing list members. Les? (If I've done wrong by not sending this privately Les, I do appologize.) I thought it would be neat to get everyone excited about Joni having an up close and personal discussion with the JMDL. I really think this is doable. Even without a Joni meet and greet for the list, Fred Walecki is most deserving of our attention. We need to offer something grand to him as a thank you for making Joni a big part of our lives. And to wish him well in his recovery. John Calimee. With apologies to Fred Walecki if I have said anything out of turn, or misrepresented any of his comments to me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:21:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Altman Pictures -- THE OTHER TWO From: mann@chicagonet.net Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:13:31 -0500 Anyone know who the other two are? http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.html Okay Paul, I'm guessing..........John Kay from Steppenwolf (sure looks like him!! LOL) and that looks like the profile of Ms. Carole King.... the original BORN TO BE WILD group! Anyone else??? Anyone? Anyone? Laura **FREEBIE CONTENT BELOW** Schick Xtreme razor from Rite Aid http://www.riteaid.com/specials/specials_frameset.html Wish you had another one? Get another from Walgreens! (send it to your hubby, wife, best friend, favorite JMDLr, etc) http://www.schick.com/xtreme/walgreens/xtreme_schick_walgreens_2.shtml No excuses for stubbly JMDLr's!! ha! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:24:23 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Greenpoints Survey = Frequent Flyer Miles = Canada For all of you doing Greenpoints: There is a quick survey at Greenpoints.com for 500 points! It is only one question on the main page. It takes you right to it when you sign in. ****IT IS NOT ON THE SURVEY PAGE**** Guess which answer I chose!!! haha Canadian bound JMDLr's remember you can use these points to add to your Frequent Flyer Miles (that smart Floridian Jimmy reminded me of this after I had used them all on Blockbuster and Wendy's Gift Certificates! No Joni Canadian Gallery showing for me!!! Boo-hoo!) Hurry!!! http://www.greenpoints.com Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:26:32 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:- the concert in CT Linda Worster wrote:- >> OK... OK I know I'm late with this... but I'm still finding it hard to say anything too coherent about the concert. (And I'll admit to feeling even shyer than usual about posting these days...) But hey... I'm still absorbing all that I took in at Joni's concert in CT. It affected me profoundly, to say the least... :~) Hi Linda, you don't need to feel shy about posting to the list. That was a beautiful post and said lots of the things I felt about that concert but couldn't put into words. Like you, it was the first time I'd seen Joni since the 70s (''71 I think) and was especially happy to think that I had heard her sing both versions of ACOY live. I was also excited by the new versions of Joni's own songs but really couldn't get to grips with Hejira at CT and was so lucky to go the next night to Boston where it began to make much more sense. I left both concerts longing,as ever, for the next album to be released. It was really great to meet you outside the concert at CT and have a brief chat about your own music. I know this subject came up just recently and that you are going to contact Les but I'm impatient. How can I get hold of some of your recordings? My best Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:29:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Did I miss Something?? <> I told you not to fall asleep, Michael...Brian Gross has stepped up to the plate and is making the video available to whomever wants it - it's about 10 minutes worth... Meanwhile, Steve P. and I are working on some "Unplugged & Jamming"- type projects, compiling little 2/3 song bits for tree-ing. This Farm Aid '85 will be a part of that project, as will Amnesty Int'l benfit '85 which also features "Three Great Stimulants" and "DED"...this project is still a ways away, I just wanted anybody who is interested in the audio to know that it WILL surface in the semi-near future. Bob NP: Elvin Bishop, "Give Me Some of That Money" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:42:05 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: It's me the tattle tale, again. NJC <> Wow, John...what a passel of awesome news! Thanks for pursuing the friendship you obviously have with Mr. Walecki and also for sharing it with us! Bob, now scrambling to figure out how he's gonna finance ANOTHER trip! ;-) Bob NP: Elvin Bishop, "Home of the Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:46:31 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? Michael, Thanks for posting the entire Metheny spiel against Kenny G. After reading it again, I still find Metheny overly vitriolic. It's obvious that he hates the man's approach toward music, creativity and life in general. This post has been going on for a while. David Lahm makes a point about people listening to Kenny G and thinking it's jazz might cause them to miss other artists who are real jazz. Real jazz? I never understood this, even though my little brother's a jazz guitarist. And my father was a jazz guitarist. (He named me after Louis Armstrong.) But, they could never tell me exactly what they meant by "real jazz." They say it either is or it isn't! But no one has ever told me exactly what jazz is, and who makes the rules that say someone is jazz and someone is not. Kenny G could just as well say that Pat Metheny isn't real jazz. Would he be any less right? Exactly what makes "jazz" so special that one person can say another person isn't jazz? They said it about Joni when she released Mingus. Metheny's saying it about Kenny G. David Lahm, whom I respect as a "jazz" pianist, makes a similar comment about him. David, Michael, help? Explain this! Kenny G changed a classic recording from a jazz great, Louis Armstrong. But, "Wonderful World" doesn't sound like jazz to me -- it's a pop song, pure and simple. Except for that little D-flat change, it has a very basic chord structure. The song could be done country or turned into a polka -- it's not that unusually difficult. Granted Kenny G's necrophilia might not be to everyone's taste, but, come on, he has as much right to express his creativity as anyone else, no matter how bad that creativity seems to some people. And much of Metheny's work doesn't sound like jazz to me -- more like experimental, nouveau, new age, post-classical to me. And, why on earth do jazz people consider "McArthur Park" and "Girl from Ipenema" jazz? One's pure pop, the other is a samba. Some of Kenny G's stuff sounds pretty jazzy to me. Some of Joni's stuff sounds really jazzy to me. While Louis Armstrong sometimes sounds more pop to me. And there are Metheny tunes that sound nothing like jazz. So, exactly who is making this distinction, and what is the distinction anyway? What does it take for a song or performer to be called "jazz" and who signs people up to give them the right to say so? Why is Herbie Hancock jazz, while David Lanz, who is extremely improvisational, considered new age? Sometimes David Lanz's rhythms are wild! But, he's not considered jazz. But Herbie Hancock can play 12-bar blues (quite well indeed), and it's considered "jazz." I play "jazz" songs on the piano, with improvisations, but many of the ballads aren't that much different than other popular ballads. We do jazzy stylistic things to old familiar Celtic tunes, but it's not considered jazz because it's based on Celtic. So obviously, jazz isn't a certain style of music, because some of the great jazz ballads have the same constructions as popular songs. You can jazz up a pop song, for sure, but if you pop up a jazz song, it's still considered jazz. How does that work? And, jazz isn't pure improvisation, because folk musicians improvise all the time. Beethoven improvised all the time, too. How come he's not jazz? And, jazz can't be a particular styling or a particular instrument, because all sorts of colorings and chords are present in world music. The flat 13 or sharp 11 aren't unique to jazz by any means -- the Ukrainians have been using them for centuries. Listen to Balkan music -- they use more harmonic coloring than most jazz stylists. They even have several different words to distinguish the many different types of "solos" in their music. How come they're not jazz? And, jazz can't be a particular field of study or sound, because even though Kenny G sounds jazzy, they don't consider him jazz. How come he's not jazz? And, jazz isn't a specific rhythm, or else "Girl from Ipenema" would be put in another category, for sambas. How come some sambas or tangos are jazz and some aren't? And, it's not necessary melodic or dissonent or fast or slow. How can you tell which song is jazz or not? And, it's not all playing by ear, or they wouldn't publish jazz charts and such. If it's jazz, then composers like Chick Corea shouldn't make any money off his sheet music, right? And, jazz isn't just a school of music from a group of "jazz greats," because a lot of pop and folk singers have performed jazz ballads, but they are not considered jazz singers. Why is Ornette Coleman jazz because he was a great improviser on his instrument, but Yo Yo Ma is a great improviser on his instrument, but he's not? And, jazz isn't just a set of instruments, because even marching bands use clarinets and saxophones and trumpets. Metheny criticized Kenny G for playing a "jazz" instrument that also happens to be found in almost every high school band. What's up with that? And, jazz can't be defined by repertoire, because "Summertime" is a Broadway show tune, and was later turned into a rock ballad by Joplin, etc., etc. Does that mean that Herbie Hancock can never play "Summertime" because it's not jazz? I've studied jazz piano and taken courses in improvisation -- I have a few chops. I can jam with a lot of different people. But my little brother tells me I'm not a jazz pianist. I play "Yesterday" with improvisations and bluesy little notes, and it's not jazz. He plays "Yesterday" with improvisations and bluesy little notes, and it's jazz. I swear, mine sounds just as jazzy as his. As far as I can see, it seems to be more of an attitude. And if you follow a selected crowd of musicians, you are cool and have a right to tell everybody else they are not. To me, Metheny's comments don't make sense for just that reason. Can someone explain this to me? Is it because I don't own a beret? Or is it because I just haven't decided to form a specific opinion about what I consider this to be or that to be? David, or Michael, or Mr. Metheny yourself, can you explain this to me? Thanks, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:19:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Fwd: OT: your glam name - definitely NJC > Ferrari Glittercake wrote: > > How silly How silly indeed, as if I need another personality! Hologram Feathersex __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:39:35 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Taking the High Road NJC Boston Jim wrote: "Please, people...please write directly to the party with whom you have the personal issue, if you must, and spare the rest of us the unpleasantness. I'm thinking about bailing on this list." Jim, don't you DARE leave this list! Your interesting questions & thoughtful contributions have elevated these discussions. Your skillfullness and intelligence in expressing your opinions is an example to be followed.... Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:25:35 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Billboard/BET Jazz Awards - njc Not to inflame the Metheny/KennyG debate but... I found some interesting irony in this news report. Les - ------- Kenny G Big Winner At Jazz Awards (6/12/00, 7 a.m. ET) - Saxophonist Kenny G was the big winner Friday night (June 9) at the first annual Billboard/BET Jazz Awards, which were held at Black Entertainment Television's (BET) studios in Washington, D.C. The ceremony, which honored artists and recordings from all over the jazz world, was co-hosted by keyboardist Herbie Hancock and singer-pianist Carol Weisman and will air on BET and its jazz channel, BET On Jazz, on July 29 at 11 p.m. ET. A sampling of the awards presented: Best Contemporary Jazz Album - Kenny G - Faith Best Contemporary Jazz Instrumental Album - Faith Best Contemporary Jazz Artist - Kenny G Best Contemporary Jazz Instrumentalist - Kenny G Top Contemporary Jazz Saxophonist - Kenny G Single Artist Jazz Anthology - Kenny G's Greatest Hits Best Contemporary Jazz Vocalist - Lalah HathawayBest Jazz Soundtrack - Pat Metheny - A Map Of The World Top Jazz Guitarist - Pat Metheny Top Contemporary Jazz Trumpeter - Chris Botti Mainstream Jazz Album - Diana Krall - When I Look In Your Eyes Mainstream Jazz Vocal Album - Diana Krall - When I Look In Your Eyes Mainstream Jazz Artist - Diana Krall Top Jazz Saxophonist - Michael Brecker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:29:34 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Cohen... From: Michael Bird Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:27:09 -0400 To Clark . . . Hi there . . . can't disagree with you about Dylan, but I beg you to reconsider Cohen. . . sounds like you've given him a fair shot in the past, and you have a point about the limits of his voice, and he ain't no Joni when it comes to musical breadth and innovation, but it's worth hearing him again as a composer of extraordinary, timeless talent. It's true that he uses a lot of the same musical tricks over and over, but many artists do that . . . the structure of a song like "Famous Blue Raincoat," while not melodic or polychromatic, is delicate and surprising . . . listen again to the subtle harmonic excellence of "Last Year's Man," or "Take This Longing." Sounds like you're already beyond that point, so if the voice and/or the often ridiculous arrangements get to you, explore some cover versions by artists with a broader palette: Geoffrey Oryema's "Suzanne" is more joyous and colorful than any other version I've heard of the song, and even Billy Joel (of whom I'm not a fan) brings a roadhouse-style ecstasy to "Light as the Breeze." By far the most extraordinary Cohen song you'll ever hear, by Cohen or anybody else, is Jeff Buckley singing "Hallelujah," from his album Grace. It outshines Cohen's recording of that song like the sun outshines a candle (using that analogy, John Cale's recording of the same song is a Waterford chandelier). Nickel Chief On the other hand, you have Cohen and Dylan who are renowned for their lyrics. Though I have enjoyed Bobby's more musical efforts (when he has a good band, some back up singers, some arrangements) , I can't get addicted to his music because he really can't sing, his harmonica playing is atrocious, and his guitar style is rudimentary with only an occasionally interesting flourish rooted in a certain primitive charm. I have tried to listen to the musicless dirges of Leonard Cohen and will not punish myself again -- I don't care how wonderful his lyrics are, he's not a good singer or composer. He needs more than wings taped on his back to make him fly. I can't see what Joni, or anyone else for that matter, ever saw in him. If the music is unmusical, then I won't listen for the words. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:45:04 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: OT: your glam name - definitely NJC yes, yes, dahlink, but a fahbulous and sup sup super delicious waste of time. kisses, poxy purplepants. damn, why didn't i get "sex" in my glam name... aka. alison e. in slc - ---------- >From: Don Rowe >To: Catherine McKay >Subject: Re: Fwd: OT: your glam name - definitely NJC >Date: Mon, Jun 12, 2000, 1:19 PM > >> Ferrari Glittercake wrote: >> >> How silly > >How silly indeed, as if I need another personality! > >Hologram Feathersex > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! >http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Billboard/BET Jazz Awards - njc - --- Les Irvin wrote: > Not to inflame the Metheny/KennyG debate but... I > found some interesting > irony in this news report. > Les > I only wonder if Pat got to Give G a piece of his mind, and if so, did involve a certain amount to "guitar wrapping" as promised in his original essay ... Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:10:48 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Billboard/BET Jazz Awards - njc On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Les Irvin wrote: > Not to inflame the Metheny/KennyG debate but... I found some interesting > irony in this news report. > Les > > ------- > Kenny G Big Winner At Jazz Awards But the good news involves Jonifriend and sometime collaborator: > Top Contemporary Jazz Trumpeter - Chris Botti - --Michael, reminded of Public Enemy's commentary on BET in the "Night of the Living Baseheads" video NP: Paul Kelly, _Words + Music_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:58:12 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Esalen in '68 Paul C. wrote: >PS. And, to up the JC a bit, another Altman pic of >Joni at Esalen in '68 with Judy and Joan. >http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.html >Anyone know who the other two are? I will make a guess that the guy is Jeffrey Shurtleaf (sp?), who was Joan's regular back-up guitarist then. The other woman??? ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:00:45 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Ian Anderson and Jethro Tull (NJC) >No doubt about it. The Beatles!! If we're bringing bands into the study in >addition to "soloists" shouldn't we talk about JETHRO TULL? The work of Ian >underwood ,IMHO, as poet, composer, arranger, musician, and singer is >outstanding. Definately one of my top five favorite musicians/groups. I'm going to see them next Sunday at Chastain Park. Anyone else going? Victor http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:19:12 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: mermaid cafe - ----- Original Message > > PS. And, to up the JC a bit, another Altman pic of > Joni at Esalen in '68 with Judy and Joan. > http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.html > (scroll down - after Donovan) > Anyone know who the other two are? > > Is it Mimi and (I think his name is) Robert Farina? Joan's sister and brother in law? Jamie Z ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:35:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Pat Metheny NJC Thanks Michael for the Pat Metheny reprint. I love Pat Metheny's music, and ignore Kenny G's. I understand how he feels when he says, "there ARE some things that are sacred" (remembering how I felt when I heard Michael Bolton singing Dock of the Bay). But I am disappointed in the way he expresses his opinion, sometimes forgetting it is his opinion. As much as I can agree with much of what he is saying, he really comes across arrogant and vitriolic. Maybe it is especially upsetting to hear these words from someone whose music is so elevating? Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:47:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: MU chords & Passion Play interpretations Thanks so much Howard for explaining Mu chords, I first heard about them when my engineer/producer told me I was using them. Now I can go back & figure out which ones they are! Thanks for all the amazing interpretations of Passion Play. I can see how all those biblical references can be transposed to the music biz. This list is so stimulating. Everytime I think, I don't have time for this, some brilliant conversation comes up & I think, how can I not? Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:38:30 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? Again, Louis, there's lots to reply to in your comment--too much for one post from me. But if someone doesn't at least try to swing convincingly in 4/4 meter (walking bass), chances are I won't feel that he or she is playing jazz. Not every tune has to walk, but I need a significant portion of the repertoire in that pocket. On the other hand, when Stan Getz, a musician with (to say the least) valid jazz credentials, recorded bossa novas, I was never disturbed by his bossa nova records being called jazz. If you had to swing to be credible, to survive, then there will be a jazz sensibility in any style you play. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:19:38 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Saskatoon list << Right now, I'm the only member, so it's getting lonely! ;-) Let's see if this works. Mary P. YEAH Mary! I was hoping someone would start a list. I have been wondering who from the JMDL is going. I won't sub to the list since I'm not going, but I would appreciate if you or someone else would post to the JMDL who plans on attending. Thanks, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:50:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Aimee Mann on Fresh Air - njc FRESH AIR with Terry Gross 3-4PM Tues 6/13/00 (www.WHYY.org, 90.9 MHz FM in Philadelphia) Terry speaks with singer and songwriter Aimee Mann. She was nominated for an Academy Award for her song, Save Me, from the film Magnolia, and she has a new CD that includes the song that inspired the film. (repeated at 7 p.m.) For tapes and transcripts of Fresh Air, call Toll-Free 1-(877)-21-FRESH. ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:25:20 EDT From: PFallo@aol.com Subject: metheny/kenny g-round 2 njc apparently pat metheny underestimated the maelstrom that would arise from his response to his original comment (taken out of context) that kenny g made the "dumbest music on the planet" and has been forced to make yet another response explaining his first response (if that makes any sense). if interested in such things you can find it at http://patmethenygroup.com/af/index-qna.html. essentially pat feels his response has once again been taken out of context and that he thought he was addressing the 100 or so people on his site who had questioned him about his original comment. he didn't realize it would be posted on other web sites and news groups throughout the world and kick up the quite fuss it did. pretty naive on his part imho. anyway, pat says he never really intended to clobber poor mr. gorelick (notice anything about that name, that may say it all) with his guitar. metheny feels that "words and opinions about music, mine included ("stature" be damned), ... are superfluous in relation to the actual sounds in question when one is actually listening." he didn't think his 2 pennies would "make even one iota of difference or have any real significance ...to either g himself or the legions of fans that actually dig hearing him play." pat says the real job for himself and other musicians is to find the good notes and "make music that is the antidote to the disease." in the end he suggests an mtv celebrity death between gorelick and the ghost of louis armstrong. i for one, think pat and kenny g should settle their differences on the jerry springer show. phil (your official enquirer reporter) np-"ludwig's tune", msg 5/22/00 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:57:23 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: No need to panic! Ok, I can feel the fevor swelling, re: Saskatoon. Now, will everyone please stay calm... and STAY HOME. I repeat, no need to obsess about this. Close your eyes and breathe deeply... and remember, STAY HOME. No need to wait in a long endless queue for a moment of what will amount to a wedding reception line. Order the catalogue raisonne, put on a pot of coffee and go to your favorite patissere, buy some orange cranberry scones and enjoy... but STAY HOME. When I count to ten, you will wake up feeling calm and content, as if coming out of a pleasant sweet dream. You will remember none of this... except a general feeling of wanting to STAY HOME. ( Dr. Sigmund John. --trying to figure out how I can possibly steal - --hog-- all the Joni time I can !!!!!!!!!!!!) Is there any way we listers can, as a group, ask her out to lunch with US??? Someone make reservations... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:02:28 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC, bootlegging, my $.02 worth (md) In a message dated 6/12/00 11:19:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << The real problem is when one is making copies of the commercial stuff and selling or trading - THEN it's very illegal and immoral. >> You mean when I take out my CD collection and take one song off a number of albums and make one of my famous "hits" tapes, Im being immoral if I trade such a tape ? I would beg to differ. Depending on the scale of the effort or operation I would think. <>> I dont think they do. They sre simply stuck between their visceral instinct which is to nuke anyone who so much as copies one song and hides in their closet with a pair of headphones thereby stealing their precious product and the impossibility of stopping any and all "unauthorized" product. A tape you happen to trade is not defined as "product". A room set up to copy and sell for money large amounts of tape copies IS considered an enterprise. Money isnt even the issue as the Sony Decision years ago legitimized the reproduction of small amounts of product for "non-commercial" uses. When the VCR or Beta was first developed there was a suit against Sony Corp. to prevent its sale. Hollywood lost. This meant that, yes, a copy could be made and a reasonable amount of money could be charged for the copiers "time". I can actually make a copy of an album for you and trade it with someone else who has some other album I want according to the Sony Decision. We can trade videos of movies til the cows come home. The line actually is drawn at the threshold of substantial commercial enterprises not fan clubs who trade tapes.. I have always laughed at the music industry which cavalierly rips off many thousands of artists through hook and crook to steal their creations and then has the nerve to get pissed at those who would "steal" from them. These discussions on the list about "bootlegging, sin or not" is yet another example of wanting to draw some fine line where in the real world such things rarely exist. Ill stand by the court decision on this one. It makes sense. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:06:46 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: 6,000 people???!!! 6,000 people???!!! 6,000 people???!!! - --gee, and I thought I was going to be the only one... j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:29:52 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC, bootlegging, my $.02 worth (md) << You mean when I take out my CD collection and take one song off a number of albums and make one of my famous "hits" tapes, Im being immoral if I trade such a tape ? I would beg to differ. Depending on the scale of the effort or operation I would think. >> I'm in total agreement marcel...like I said Samplers are good for business, the record companies do that themselves. I was referring to complete duplication of a CD in its entirety. I didn't make myself clear, so sorry about that. So you don't have to beg to differ as we don't differ at all, unless we're talking kd's wardrobe that is! :-D Bob NP: Joni live @ Camden, "Sometimes I'm Happy" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:33:20 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Greenpoints Survey = Frequent Flyer Miles = Canada (NJC) Laura our queen of coupons (and all around great girl), you're back!!! I was just thinking about you today. With Joni in Saskatoon, I was hoping you'd give some helpful travel savings to pass on to those lucky JMDLer's who are going. Thanks again for being here Laura. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:43:34 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Queen Lizzie At 12:13 PM 6/12/00 EDT, CarltonCT@aol.com (Clark) wrote: >>catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca writes: >>The copper proud-headed Queen Lizzie is a Canadian >>penny - Liz is on the "heads" side. A penny (because >>it's copper) can be used as a quick fix for a blown fuse, >Okay, but what does that mean within the context of the song? Hi Clark, I'll take a stab at this one. "Electricity" has always been one of my favorite tracks on FTR. And it wasn't the lyrics that initially attracted me to this song. Rather it was the soaring and silky-smooth vocal presentation...almost a "yodel" at times. Stunningly beautiful and achingly longing. Later after I studied the lyrics I was even more caught up with this song. My interpretation is after an emotionally-charged breakup, Joni has retreated to her stone cottage in British Columbia, Canada. Maybe she walks in after not being there for many months, flips the switch, and the lights don't come on. She fumbles around trying to get the juice turned back on (she's got all the wrong fuses and splices) and the experience becomes a metaphor for her broken relationship. She knows she's "not going to fix it up too easy" but her pride mirrors that of Queen Elizabeth, whose likeness is engraved on the penny in the fusebox that's being used to "conduct little charges." But Joni knows that the electrons "don't get charged back" and forth any more than her feelings of love are being returned. In other words, this "electricity" that she had with her former lover still conducts feelings but there's nothing in the "owner's manual" that can entirely see her through these troubled times. It's up to her to figure it out. The lyrics go back and forth between first person and third person, but I believe the song is clearly about Joni. When she sings "And she holds out her flashlight, and she shines it on me," I see her drawing a mental picture of a proud and wise Queen Elizabeth shining a spotlight on Joni and asking "what's wrong?" and perhaps telling her "get it together." She learns, it's peaceful there, but resigns herself to the fact that it's not going to be fixed up too easily. She had this love that floodlit the time...there were feelings flowing back and forth (input, output) and they were electric. But it became too much, the lines overloaded, and the sparks started flying. Still not wanting to give up hope, she shines her candle, hearing his song in her head, looking for the answer...and ultimately concluding that it won't be fixed up too easy. The big picture to me is that Joni is going through an extremely difficult time and is trying to find, through serious contemplation, what the answers are...what the "fix" is. It's this ability Joni conveys to help one's self that so endears her music to me. She doesn't sugar-coat it for herself...she's a realist in that regard...but she's also an astute observer, and a hopeful romantic. I like that. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:44:26 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC, bootlegging, my $.02 worth (md) In a message dated 6/12/2000 9:18:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << We can trade videos of movies til the cows come home. The line actually is drawn at the threshold of substantial commercial enterprises not fan clubs who trade tapes.. I have always laughed at the music industry which cavalierly rips off many thousands of artists through hook and crook to steal their creations and then has the nerve to get pissed at those who would "steal" from them. >> Very well said Marcel! I don't think the artist make much money off of each Cd that they sell which is really sad. The record company makes most of it. I have been making tapes since I was around 12 years old and do not plan on stopping now! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:47:01 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: 6,000 people???!!! In a message dated 6/12/2000 9:20:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, f40rmr1@corn.cso.niu.edu writes: << 6,000 people???!!! 6,000 people???!!! --gee, and I thought I was going to be the only one... j. >> Tell me about it!!! I love Joni but I doubt if I would get even a few hundred feet close to her with that many people showing up. I will wait and go to the exhibit later in the summer. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:55:01 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon I've always placed Joni as the one in the sycamore tree, looking out feeling as if her sins of life are really all that bad compared to the religious organizations, big business and the terrorist of the world. She seems to be saying while the churches are making promises of freedom of burden it is the masses who work for Exxon and the power plants all are in attendance of these services totally missing sight of the havoc and evils these things have reaped upon the earth. " The killer nails are ringing ", are literally The machine guns and bombs going off in the market places of the third world countries and the oil companies dominance of power over all these regions for profitable gains while they go to church divinely barren of all they are causing. So in her own free style she is much closer to redemption then they could ever be! I could go on and on but, on to the show. I'll be at the Saskatoon opening "EXTRAVAGANZA" I hope to meet some of you there. I'll be at the Quality Hotel downtown Saskatoon, and I know nothing of the town but can't wait!!! And a good night to all. David Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:25:04 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon In a message dated 6/12/2000 10:02:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MINGSDANCE@aol.com writes: << I've always placed Joni as the one in the sycamore tree, looking out feeling as if her sins of life are really all that bad compared to the religious organizations, big business and the terrorist of the world. She seems to be saying while the churches are making promises of freedom of burden it is the masses who work for Exxon and the power plants all are in attendance of these services totally missing sight of the havoc and evils these things have reaped upon the earth. " The killer nails are ringing ", are literally The machine guns and bombs going off in the market places of the third world countries and the oil companies dominance of power over all these regions for profitable gains while they go to church divinely barren of all they are causing. So in her own free style she is much closer to redemption then they could ever be! >> That interpretation works perfect for me!! I agree 101%! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:46:25 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? As for the "attitude" to which you refer (you didn't say "elitist" but that's the sense I got), I would answer you this way, FOR MYSELF: I DON'T begin these discussions/disagreements/disputes. I don't spontaneously put people down or call them "not cool" because they don't like jazz. I DO feel love and awe for a music that expresses the human spirit in a unique and majestic way. I aspire to it and I feel protective toward it. Isn't there some kind of music that is very dear to you, very inspiring to you, very warming and nourishing to you which you would not like to see trashed and adulterated by people's using its name to advertise ANOTHER kind of music, which does NOT inspire and nourish your soul? Jazz has never been defined in words to the satisfaction of everyone. That, IMO, does not render illegitimate an individual person's feeling that a particular performance is or is not jazz. The faith that I keep about jazz is not undermined because you are able to demonstrate that I cannot come up with a non-self-contradictory set of answers to the questions you posed. I hope everyone reading this has gotten the same nourishment from the music you love as I have from the music I love. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:09:06 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Edith and the Kingpin Does anyone remember in the recent discussion about HOSL,someone pointed out that one of the album's main theme was the tension between the different conflicts that result in living in suburbia?the extremes of blandness,conformity,repression on one hand and the opposite extreme of decadence,irresponsability and meaningless escapism on the other extreme.I was thinking that perhaps Edith and Kingpin captures this conflict.The opposite extremes of innocence/experiance meet,"each with charm to sway"people who live in the suburbs.They dare not look away from the other,because opposite's attract. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:26:47 EDT From: GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com Subject: Re: The first Farm Aid concert I have the live recording of that show I taped off the radio that year! I need to dig that out! Is this on the tree, in any form? I would donate this to a tree person if not. The recordings not bad! We need to give DED a break, and the live recording from this period give the album a lot of heart! Peace, NP: Asian Travels (compilation) - Various Artist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:23:59 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? In a message dated 6/12/2000 10:57:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dflahm@aol.com writes: << I hope everyone reading this has gotten the same nourishment from the music you love as I have from the music I love. >> Yes I have. I will say one thing. Pat Metheny is a tru Jazz man. Kenny G sold out so to speck. He allowed himself to become comercialized which is a shame. Joni (which is why I love her so much) NEVER sold out. Even when they were throwing slings and arrows she still held true to her own drum. And that is the differnce between Kenny G and Pat Metheny. Pat is like Joni. He would never sell out. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:24:53 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Metheny / Gorelick (njc) In a message dated 6/12/00 9:06:48 AM, Dflahm writes: >When I say jazz is a word that connotes creativity and integrity and you >say this is only true of good jazz...aren't we talking about two different >things? Could be. Maybe it's just semantics, but to me there is simply nothing inherently creative or honorable in jazz, nor in any genre. Creativity and integrity can be present, or not, in any kind of music and no one type has a monopoly on such. That's why it's acceptable for me to view Gorelick as abysmally bad jazz, and Coltrane as sublimely great jazz. >As for your citing Coltrane and Mahavishnu and Weather Report: I don't >think it's the same as Kenny G at all. The former all had careers and discographies >smack in the mainstream of jazz before they innovated in directions that >raised some cries of alarm. As time went by, they played music that didn't >always "swing" like I like it to swing, but there was energy, challenge, >passion in what they did. G? None of that. Again, the disparity in their legacies is a large factor in why Gorelick is abysmal and Coltrane, et al, sublime, aside from the gaping disparity in level of talent, intelligence, creativity, and integrity. By the way, each to his own, of course, but to my ears the best efforts of Weather Report, Mahavishnu, Herbie Hancock, Metheny Group, Oregon, etc. in the "fusion" vein swing just as much as more conventionally straight-ahead fare. Nice chatting with you, David. I think there's much more that we agree on than not. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #326 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?