From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #307 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Friday, June 2 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 307 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- DED [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Meritocracy NJC [catman ] Re: DED [catman ] Some thoughts on the Covers Projects Covers SJC [Howard Motyl ] Joni/Bronte connection? [Dave Gertler ] Re: Hejira Anon....and on ["Steve Mitchell" ] NO.Marcels take on Pazfest (part 4) (end) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Joni photo from New York magazine [jan gyn ] JEF [Vince Lavieri ] joni in the current issue of Rolling Stone... [RickieLee1@aol.com] Chicago thoughts ["kerry" ] Re: DED [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: DED [michael w yarbrough ] Re: Early Joni info ps... [pat holden ] Anonymous Dogs (SJC) [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: DED [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: meritocracy NJC [Emmy M Burns ] Re: Anonymous Dogs (SJC) [Janet Hess ] SENDS YOU A SHIVERIN.. [dave fairall / beth miller ] Jan The Lawyer [catman ] Re: This List (NJC) [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Jan The Lawyer [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: BSN/Hejira ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Early Joni info please, Pat ["P. Henry" ] Re: Early Joni info ps... ["P. Henry" ] V-A-C-A-T-I-O-N ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Early Joni info ps... [pat holden ] Re: V-A-C-A-T-I-O-N ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Favorite Joni Songs ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Marcels take ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: This whole thing about Judy Collins... NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Meritocracy NJC Alison Einerson wrote: > > i think there are many ways to interpret "meritocracy", colin. it doesn't > necessarily refer to intelligence or IQ, it also refers to how hard a person > is willing to be successful or have a fulfilling life, and to contribute > positively to society. grades, "book smarts" aren't always all a person > needs to be successful. sometimes they can actually hamper a person. i've > always thought of meritocracy as based on a less stringent idea of > "merit"--how hard you work determines how much merit you have. does this > make sense? Yes it makes sense. However, I don't believe a person's worth comes from what they do, I think it comes from just being. What you say is of course right in other ways-that is how people are rewarded. Yet still there are people who are not gifted with intelligence or some other talent and due to the way we have set things up, they reamin at the bottom of the pile. It would be lovely for us to believe that those who are low paid etc are low paid etc thru their own laziness. I have a feeling it isn't so. I knew a woman many years ago who was a road sweeper. That is waht she chose to be. In fact she had an honours degree, Had taken the road sweeping job as a filler but decide she loved the work. I bet though that most road sweepers do it because they have little choice. The fact is a lack of brain power can and does affect what a person is able to do. Farmers work very hard, btw, and get poor renumeration, regardless of their brain power. I am sure others in 'lowly' jobs also work hard. It doesn't really matter how hard they work tho as they will still be at the bottom rung. The program on this 'meritocracy' just made me wonder about it. The world we live in seems to be full of opportunity etc for those of us with brain power or some other talent. But as these opportunity's rely on people being being at the bottom of the pile, I wonder if maybe there is a better way. > > in a true meritocracy, teachers would make six figures because what they do > so directly affects all in that society. same with "nurding" (yeah, i think > you meant nursing..:-), farming, etc. Again I agree. Teachers, after parents, have a very important role. I would venture to say though that so do refuse collecters. imagine the mess if not! In the ned, i just think there must be a better, fairer, ahppier way. I have no idea what that would be though. bw colin > > alison e. in slc. > ---------- > >From: catman > The term > >meritocracy came up and was explained as the idea that people should be > >rewarded for their abilities eg good grades good job good pay. > >On the surface this seems fair. > >Maybe it isn't though. unless I am mistaken, isn't intelligence largely > >inherited? I am aware that nurture can help with this but not to the > >point where we can all be really intelligent. So where does that leave > >people who just don't have the brain power to get the good grades? In > >low paid jobs? How is this fair? > >I know life itself is not 'fair' but these people were going on as if > >this meritocracy idea was really good and I thought so too till i > >started to think about it. > >It seems to me then that your life and lving standard will be determined > >by the iq you got lumbered with.(speaking in terms of 'developed' > >countries). > > > >I can't speak for anywhere esle but here the worst paid people do the > >most important jobs-like nurding, teaching, refuse collection, mining, > >food growers, shop staff etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 21:31:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: DED Catherine McKay wrote: > > --- catman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think he must mean me Jim. I'm a huge DED (Dog > > Eat Dog) fan I didn't write this. > > Better DED than Dead! Honestly, every time I see DED, > I think of the "dead dog" trick we used to do with our dog! Dead dog tirck? Do tell. If it is safe to. > > ===== > Catherine (in Toronto) > catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:28:00 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Some thoughts on the Covers Projects Covers SJC How about those Betty Buckley covers? Very nice. Beautiful. She sings 'em like she means it. How about that Wynonna cover of Help Me? What, did they ask for the Joni master then use everything but Joni's voice? I know, I know, there are a couple of sax trills that aren't on JM's version, but this arrangement is exactly the same. It's as if they were challenged to make it sound as much like the original as possible. I like the Man from Mars with the piano (and without the VG-8). Howard M BTW, thanks Jody for doing these for me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:48:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: DED - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > Better DED than Dead! Honestly, every time I see > DED, > I think of the "dead dog" trick we used to do with > our dog! > Is that the one where you said, "Play DED!" ... and your dog proceeded to yowl out Rod Steiger's monologue from 'Tax Free'? ;-) Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:48:55 -0400 From: Dave Gertler Subject: Joni/Bronte connection? Just as Hejira is my favorite album (by anyone), _Jane Eyre_ is my favorite book. I wonder whether other Joniphiles also like the Bronte sisters' works? There seems to be a connection -- both the music and the books consist largely of penetrating emotional sketches, wonderfully articulated upon a canvas of mystery and melancholy and sudden joy. Dave Gertler (apparently kicked off the Joni-at-eCenter list, but I'll be there tonight anyway!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:46:32 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Re: Hejira Anon....and on Julian wrote: > ...Blue is a great album but it's so much shorter than Hejira...sometimes I > find myself wishing that I was in the Blue Anonymous group . . . . When I first got Blue on CD I used to loop the intro to The Last Time I Saw Richard and play it for hours! - --Stevie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:58:31 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: NO.Marcels take on Pazfest (part 4) (end) POST concert thoughts: I went home exhausted but exhillarated. this was one of the most special nights I have ever been privileged to have attended whether I performed or not. I laid in bed in my state of exhausted insomnia and thought about how this thing started as a simple internet email list. Grew into parties at peoples houses with some guitar playing in the back yard and then turned into this profoundly amazing event. I said to Les Irvin right at the peak of the peformances, "Les, see what you have done to all of us??" The combination of Wally's page with Les's page is an unbeatable combination. The whole is truly greater than the sum of its parts. My last thought went to what on earth would Joni have thought of this evening. These were not the chosen few in the big limos and the fat recording contracts who have Rosie Odonnell kiss their ass. These people this night represented the product of what Jonis music has truly wrought. All our lives have been affected and changed by Jonis music and by music itself. It is one of the greatest pleasures in life getting up in front of people but having incredible songs to sing is one reason we all have done this in our lives. Not all the musicians are making big livings either playing music. However no one would rather be doing anything else. My only regret about the evening (other than my stage costume not arriving) was that when I was laying in bed it occurred to me that at the very end after Brian we all should have gotten up on stage together and sung a song together. All the listers. Se la vie. For all of those who were there I will never forget how special this was. For all those who couldnt be there hopefully the tape of the show will be somehow released. I hope this lengthy recitation will serve to bring those who missed it a little closer to that which we attendees will forever be raving about. Michael, thanks again, and a high five to all the listers who played and a double high five to Brian, You da man. Michael Paz , you rock sir. LAST DAY IN NEW ORLEANS: Our last day was special as well. People were leaving at various times. Michael we all assumed was a wreck. After sleeping in, my wife Soizic, was feeling better and so we decided to go back to the French Quarter one more time and trip around so we did. From there we went to the house of that great Impressionist painter Eduard Degas. He actually did some paintings there which they show you. It was incredible actually sitting in the same chair in the same place that he sat and seeing the background in front of you that is behind his subject in his painting of his cousin. We watched a film on Degas life in New Orleans. He was a Creole. They have sizeable reproductions of his works including the ones done in this house. He definitely had a thing for his cousin. From the house we walked through the 'hood along Esplanade Ave. ( a gorgeous street) until we came to the Degas Restaraunt. Absolutely incredible. Just like a French cafe. Wonderful food. I could have spent the rest of the day there just pretending I was in Paris. Desert to die for. We then decided to go to the Mansion district or garden District and see the huge homes and the antique stores. After walking through the neighborhood for some time lookinmg at some pretty amazing houses we encountered some creepy thuggy looking guys who stared at us and passed us by. I smiled and waved at them and they seemed to be taken aback. A few blocks later there were 5 police cars investigating an armed robbery of some tourists on the street and we were told that the culprits were still at large in the area. Do you think ???.......NAH. Anyway with our guardian angels working overtime we immediately knew what to do. Call Paz. He told me that Jack was at that minute on his way to the hotel to drive everyone on a tour. So we cought a cab and hightailed it back to the Hotel. We all sat around for a short while before we decided to go see a real plantation. This was according to our trusty tourguide only 30 minutes away. About that time we arrived at an antebellum plantation complete with a majestic promenade of 400 year old oak trees. the house is big but not garishly ornate. A young black lady related the history of the place to us and I was taken by how she spoke about this time strictly in an historical context. She mentioned the slaves and what their lives were like without a hint of emotion. I beg of all of you to forego the commentary and pontificating that this statement could illicit but suffice it to say the people from there definitely look beyond the soundbite imagery that we yankees tend to focus on to somewhat of a larger greater historical context. She talked at length about the master craftsmen among them and many other things. After the tour we waited for Kakki who was actually waiting for us. A few of us strolloed under the canopy of the giant oak trees. I hope Jim L's pictures come out. The heat in the shade of the trees wrapped itself around you like a comfy electric blanket. It was so beautiful it really was like being in Heaven. We left the Plantation and were again informed by Jack that there was this little restaraunt "only 4 miles up the road". In his past life jack was I think a member of the Donner Party (California joke). About two hours later we were still trying to find our way to some form of dinner. Eventually we matriculated back to New Orleans hatching several options about every 30 minutes. Then having to trash those plans because we still werent where we wanted to be. We finally got back to new orleans and now were scrambling at 9:30pm for someplace, anyplace, to eat before desperately seeking sleep. We had just been informed by this one place that they had no room for us then Jack arrives and masterfully convinces the restaraunt to feed us at which point they tell us 45 minutes. We collectively gasp. Downstairs we decided we just simply had to split up so we went in smaller groups. Phyllis,Soizic and I went to none other than K-Pauls the famous Prudhomme restaraunt. It is fitting that I had probably the best single dish I had in the entire trip which was a big plate of Paul Prudhommes Jumbalaya. Oh my God what a delicious dish. At 11pm we finally hit the sack. The next morning jack picked us up with coffee and beignets and drove us to the airport. What a class act. As New Orleans drifted over the horizon out my airplane window I thought to myself what a special time this was. I could only think of one song that summed up the feelings I had in my heart..... Got to be in dixieland... "There is heaven right here on earth with those beautiful sceens way down yonder in New Orleans" Hugs to all...Marcel Deste ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:09:30 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Joni photo from New York magazine At 02:58 PM 6/2/00 -0400, you wrote: >--- Deb Messling wrote: >> Here's the beautiful picture of Joni in the May 29 >> issue of New York magazine: >> http://www.enter.net/~messling/newyorkmag.html "the sun poured in like butterscotch..." What a nice picture! - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:49:03 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Pine Knob Performance (long, long, long) Guitarist and singer extraordinaire Terry wrote: > Oooh, what wonderful posts I've been reading about the Detroit concert. I > won't go into the details, as Cassy, Sue and others have already done a > wonderful job of sharing those with you already. Indeed they have! > > And > Cassy...you did hit that high C spot on. Did you know that Cassy is actually > from England and still has a lovely accent? Cassy has a wonderful voice, but then, she is such a sweet person, she should! > > > Back to the concert...am I the only one who REALLY loved For The Roses?? > When she let loose with Hejira, you could see Klein grinning with > surprise. She looked like she was possessed! You go GIRL! I did also love FTR. That and Hejira were the two songs that were much better than Chicago. I think the orchestra helped a lot, as they played the melody more clearly, but Joni was definitely into Hejira... she really rocked on it! I loved watching her intensity as she sang Hejira! And her FTR was sublime; maybe the forced end of the concert impacted on her emotionally while she sang this? > > > Anyway, yes...I couldn't even talk about the show afterward. I could drink a > case of you, Joni, but I was barely on my feet afterward. > > Here, Terry, I disagree. I was still on my feet, and today, all I did at work was mutter, "I wish I were in Philadelphia..." I could see this show again and again and again. And again. And then again. This was a stunning show. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:46:32 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Re: Hejira Anon....and on Julian wrote: > ...Blue is a great album but it's so much shorter than Hejira...sometimes I > find myself wishing that I was in the Blue Anonymous group . . . . When I first got Blue on CD I used to loop the intro to The Last Time I Saw Richard and play it for hours! - --Stevie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:05:10 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: JEF > The Rev Vince wrote: > > >The stunning visual at the end of the concert....she > >departs the stage while the spotlight grows brighter and fixes on the > >empty stage and suddenly lone microphone. It gave me chills in both > >Chicago and Detroit. Did anyone mention this in a concert review and I > missed it? Ducimer Steve replied: > Ummmm, well, yes, it was discussed a bit - you were probably so out > of it with Joni Anticipation Frenzy (JAF - a new acronym!) that it > blew right by you. :) > Thanks for clearing that up, that I missed the prior comments on it (so did some others, I gather), and that it in fact did happen! It figures that someone who paints with words and music would create with shadows and light and come up with such a great visual! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:05:52 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: joni in the current issue of Rolling Stone... greetings listers - hopefully i am not duplicating the efforts of another, but i was leafing through the current issue of rolling stone only to find our favorite topic of discussion, staring out in a color photo accompanying a 5 star review (rolling stone's highest rating, and one they do not give out very often) of COURT AND SPARK. time warp? i thought so at first. but, in fact (and much more pedestrian than the previous explanation) they have this feature where they revisit classic albums and review them all over again. it is called the "hall of fame" review. this issue they do joni's "court & spark"! which they give FIVE stars, their highest rating. (well, DUH!) here it is: (forgive any typos please...) "by 1973, joni mitchell was searching for a new sound. on albums like clouds and blue, she had accompanied herself on piano and acoustic guitar, and progressed from folkie waif to sophisticated chronicler of the gender wars. she needed musical arrangements that matched the complexity of her lyrics. tom scott had played woodwinds on mitchell's previous album, for the roses (1972) and she decided to do some sessions with his jazz-rock band, the LA express. the result is court and spark, an album that not only represents the culmination of mitchell's folk-rock period, but also signals the many musical experiments of her future. released at the end of 1973, raised on robbery, the album's first single, caught all the humor and energy that had always been part of mitchell's personality but that had barely found a place in her music. the second single, help me, showed the flip side of mitchell's sensibility - the romantic dreamer, swept up in the currents of desire and uncertain about where they are carrying her or even if she wants to go. "we love our lovin'/ but not like we love our freedom" she sings in lines that summarize the dueling impulses in so many of her songs. playing behind her, musicians like scott, guitarist larry carlton, drummer john guerin, and trumpeter chuck findley add colors and depth to songs that stretch melodies and vocal lines in surprising directions. and as always with mitchell, the lyrics penetrate deftly to the painful core of feeling beneath the requisitely cool coupling of the early seventies. when she sings, in a kind of prayer, "send me somebody/who's strong and somewhat sincere" her reduced expectations (this was the age of less is more, remember) seem both poignant and desperate. court and spark was - and still is - mitchell's most commercially successful album. in another sign of the times, she was defeated the following year in two major grammy categories by olivia newton john. that's why the criterion of "standing the test of time" was invented - a standard that court and spark will always meet." - anthony decurtis blue also gets 5 stars. for the roses, 4.5 stars. and hissing of summer lawns, 4 stars. joni sure is in the press alot lately, and it all seems to be very favorable. i hope she gets some satisfaction from it. peace! ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:16:34 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Chicago thoughts Is it me or are there a lot of posts on the list lately?? It's been hard to keep up! I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry that I missed all the Chicago pre and post get-togethers. As I said before it was rough getting my nieces and sister on the road on time and they had to go to work and school the next day. I went out to the smoking section at intermission and couldn't seem to see a group gathered. My niece said I should have yelled, "WHERE'S MY INTERNET COMMUNITY?" :>) Anyway, I did find Steve on the way out. (I noticed his "photo" badge.) At least I met one JMDL'er!!!! It's a start! So, when is the Chicago Jonifest???? As far as I know there are only two of us on the list from Milwaukee!! I loved the concert and don't have much to add that hasn't been said. Her new orchestrations of her "older" songs were wonderful and I felt challenged as a listener. It was a very emotional night for me, since I never thought I would get to see her again. ( I went to her concert here way back in 1979.) Another great feeling came from seeing my nieces enjoy the concert so much. I'm so proud that they are becoming true Joni fans!!!!! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:25:56 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: DED well, i would be a sorry fan if i did not come out of lurkville long enough to toss my vote on the DED pile. i think it is a great album!! not the best she ever did, but a great effort, none the less. i was actually playing misses in my car today and the title cut came on. i was pretending i had roberto there in the seat next to me so i could give him a big whack on the head. he maintains that lyrically it is not up to her normal standards, (the cheek!) but i think that song does a good job of belying THAT notion, thank you very much. i'm working on that DED-resistant-rascal, roberto. have been for two years now. i still believe he will come around someday. in the meantime, i have my very enthusiastic vote cast firmly in the affirmative! peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:03:06 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: DED Add my vote to the ever-growing pile in favor of DED. Indeed, I count it as one of her top five albums, WAY above the dreadful CMIARS and lackluster WTRF. (uh-oh, I'm in trouble now.) Not only do I "even" like "Smokin'," it's one of my favorite tracks. Joni is rarely this economical, and she makes such a strong but not overbearing point with so little. Plus I like the swing of it. Just great. - --Michael NP: David Bowie, _Station to Station_ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Intellects do not believe in God But they fear us just the same." - --Erykah Badu, "On and On" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 19:29:20 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Early Joni info ps... having been there, I'd agree, there is no way that Joni could have talked about Kelly without losing it. Even after all the years of living with it, even after rationalizing it (mostly to yourself)...that pain never goes away completely. Mags. Catherine McKay wrote: > --- "P. Henry" wrote: > > to be honest, I don't think she ever mentioned > > Kelly to *anyone*... I don't know if I could say > > I was among Joni's 'very closest friends' but we > > *were* close... I say this because we spent many > > hours together and she did share many very > > personal things with me that one would typically > > only discuss with a trusted amigo. > > in retrospect, not having even known about it, > > it explains a lot... the long silences... the > > barely concealed sorrow... I think she really > > went through hell about it and my feeling is she > > probably literally *couldn't* talk about it... > > without 'bustin' up'. > > > > Pat, you've just given us a glimpse of Joni reality, > expressed in simple, but such eloquent, terms. I > swear to God, reading this, my eyes are misting over, > there's a lump in my throat and I've got goosebumps. > > ===== > Catherine (in Toronto) > catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:41:28 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Anonymous Dogs (SJC) In a message dated 06/02/2000 9:26:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << Julian wrote: The DED people have it easy is what I think;-) << Steve Disgustingly Added: Oh, don't worry about them. They're both so confused, they don't know what's happening. :) >> OK. That's it! I have to come to the defense of both of us since the other anonymous DED fan is still in Detroit, waiting for JM to do Ethiopia in an encore sometime before 11PM tonight. Now, those of you that have been to my house know that DED is my favorite. I made all of you listen to it again. I only saw Phyliss cover her ears once. Everyone else was respectable (under the threat of a Strawberry Hill cocktail). I just arrived in Washington, DC (stopping by Detroit to see how he was doing) for a ten day trip and have DED on repeat on the portable (and lousy) CD player in his honor. He asked me to channel up Ethiopia and I am trying. Could use some help here. Doesn't look like she's gonna show. On top of that, the driver that brought me to the hotel is Ethiopian and we had quite a little chat about Little Ms. JM. He bought DED for his local family to hear and mailed a tape back to Africa. Inspired yet again, it was my first choice (as usual) to play as I try to stay on top of my emails. Still have 97 and I checked them before I left Hollywood this AM! My DED brother (the one still in Detroit) and I exchange daily emails trying to top one another for who listened to it most that day. We have also analyzed each and every lyric and determined it to be JM's most fabulous creation, short of Dancin' Clown. We, of course, use different email names for this singular purpose. I am Stimulant, he is DogBoy. Now that I have outed us both, I am at peace. Free to listen to Tax Free over and over and over and over. Just one of life's little delights! No regrets (except the cigarette machine in this hotel is empty), Coyote (Rick) Somewhere in a DC Thunderstorm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:44:03 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: DED In a message dated 06/02/2000 9:45:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << I'm one. Who's the other? :-) Now...what's DED again? "Boston Jim" >> And I was trying to keep your identity anonymous. Note to self: Read all emails before posting. Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I Wish I Had Met Paddy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:34:32 -0700 From: Emmy M Burns Subject: Re: meritocracy NJC Another thing to keep in mind when thinking about this is that Meritocracy is a flawed concept because it does not take into account the racist and sexist (etc.) institutions that discriminate against people. Even when a person exhibits the most determination in the world it does not guarantee that they will be able to achieve their potential. Until the system treats all people fairly true meritocracy is a fallacy. A few thoughts, Emmy _____________________________________ Work like you don't need the money, Love like you have never been hurt, And Dance like no one is watching. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:03:49 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Anonymous Dogs (SJC) This thunderstorm has been really something! The heat pushed the record for the day (97 was the DC record), so the storm was especially strong. This may be a suggestion that The Powers That Be don't enjoy having DED dissed on the JMDL. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, one of whom was far too cool to be taken in by the thunder and lightning At 07:41 PM 6/2/2000 EDT, AngelinoCoyote@aol.com wrote a great deal about the wonders of DED and later signed off: >Coyote (Rick) >Somewhere in a DC Thunderstorm - ----------------- So when you see a man who's broken / Pick him up and carry him. And when you see a woman who's broken / Put her all into your arms 'Cause we don't know where we come from / We don't know what we are. Laurie Anderson, "Ramon" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:05:02 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: SENDS YOU A SHIVERIN.. Howard said, <-no regrets, Coyote, I just get up a ways." Fucking brilliance. And it kills me everytime.> I think it's "I'll just get off up a ways". The hitchhiking theme you know? Coyote kills me too, and among my circle of joniphile friends no one can say "no regrets" w/o someone else finishing and adding coyote. I also love the intro of Jericho where after the initial chord sequence there's that long Jaco bass glissando, and Joni comes in w/ "I'll try to keep myself open up to you.....". Real goosebumps, that's at great tune. Man from Mars also gets me, the "this time you went too far" line in particular. Dave F. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:15:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: meritocracy NJC Emmy M Burns wrote: > > Another thing to keep in mind when thinking about this is that > Meritocracy is a flawed concept because it does not take into account the > racist and sexist (etc.) institutions that discriminate against people. > Even when a person exhibits the most determination in the world it does > not guarantee that they will be able to achieve their potential. Until > the system treats all people fairly true meritocracy is a fallacy. It would seem to me that only those who have benefitted from this flawed way of doing things would support it. Although I don't know the answer, I feel somehow that if we truly did love ourselves AND our neighbour, we would not have this problem. I would say the points you make are accurate > > A few thoughts, Emmy > _____________________________________ > Work like you don't need the money, > Love like you have never been hurt, > And Dance like no one is watching. > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:25:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: Jan The Lawyer I have this friend, Jan. We talk together quite a bit-usually about God and life and other mundane subjects.Being a divorce lawyer she has quite a few interesting stories. Like the couple who wanted to sue the registrar of Births becasue he refused to let them name their daughter Labia! She had to explain to them that Labia was not a name. at least not for a child. She leaves her job at the end of next week as she can't stand doing it anymore and is going to do some other sought of lawyering with some charity. Anyway, to get to the point, we were discussing the Internet and I mentioned the JMDL. 'Oh,' she says, 'I love Joni Micthell1' We've known eachother a long time and this had not come up before! She asked me about jaco whatsisname and whether he was still doing his thing. I told her the sad truth. Anyway, she has Blue, C&S, THSOL,Hejira(which she loves to death) and Mingus. She stopped buying after Mingus, just like I did till much later years. Anyway, guess what i will be sending her thru the post. I wonder what she'll thing of the later stuff. I'll let you know. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:26:05 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: This List (NJC) Catherine M. wrote: <> Funny you should write this today. Last night I was having a phone conversation with a list friend that I've met in person and have talked with via blower on several occasions. In describing her personal accounts of a couple of different recent Joni events, was that after hanging with a couple of other listers, with whom we both had shared an instant liking and already correspond with, that in person, they're even more sweet, poised, intelligent, fun and funny class acts than they come across on screen. I don't know if a "whoohoo" is in order ;-), but it sure helps you feel more comfortable sharing all sorts of silly stuff via private e-mail, when someone you've met and generally mirrors your own impressions, speaks so glowingly of their first hand encounters. One of these mentioned is even moving soon and likely will become a bonafide neighbor. ;-) Of course, don't know if it'll turn into a case of "Laura and Jody" West ;-) (hi! guys), but just to know there's a opportunity to make a new concert buddy with Joni tastes or have the viable option of picking up the phone when the list gets just to weird, will be a new experience I'm looking forward to. And Joni lunches too! Oh what fun! ;-) ;-) Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:34:10 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Jan The Lawyer In a message dated 06/02/2000 5:29:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << Anyway, she has Blue, C&S, THSOL,Hejira(which she loves to death) and Mingus. She stopped buying after Mingus, just like I did till much later years. Anyway, guess what i will be sending her thru the post. I wonder what she'll thing of the later stuff. I'll let you know. >> Dog Eat Dog, of course! Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I Wish I Had Met Paddy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:52:56 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: BSN/Hejira > < heard it for the first time. And, at that time I had no idea what > the songs really meant. >> > > Maybe this is pretentious on my part, but I've been thinking the same way about BSN...when I first heard Hejira, I was 18 and had NO idea what these songs dealt with emotionally, only that they were brilliant and I HAD to find out why. It's taken me 25 years and I'm still working on it. > > Likewise, I think BSN will need time to fully appreciate. Joni's 15 years older than me so she's coming from a different age & stage. I foresee myself in the future playing this record and really appreciating it fully as I've done with Hejira. > > Bob I was sitting here thinking, 'I agree it will take time to fully appreciate BSN but 15 years?' And then I stopped and thought some more. Just recently, as a result of getting familiar with BSN, I've been revisiting Billie Holiday's 'Lady in Satin' which was never my favorite of her records. I've probably had that record for about 15 years in one form or another and I think I'm just now learning to appreciate it. Thank you, Joni! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:58:53 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Early Joni info please, Pat Penny wrote: >Thanks for your patience and re-telling, Pat. I wanted to have a copy of this post to share with Sid, and with there being so many newbies, I thought maybe they would enjoy a, new to them, read of your notes too. ;-) > ;o) I didn't mean to sound 'put out' about it, pen... as anyone could probably tell, I *love* to brag about my great good fortune in having known the young artist in her prime... it continues to be a source of joy and inspiration in my life and it's my pleasure to share it with you or anyone who wants to know. one other point of reference as regards early Joni, or, actually two, which people may have forgotten is that lurking somewhere on the list (unless they've unsubbed) are two other Cellar alumni, both of whom actually knew her *before* I did... brian moss and michael heath. while we're on the subject of Joni's early history there's a question I'd like to throw out there to complete some info I'd like to find out. most of us are aware that Chuck and Joni met in a Toronto coffeehouse and then married... but probably few of us are aware of how unique that coffehouse was. it was actually two clubs, one upstairs and one down... one for Canadian performers, one for American. the only other info I have is that I know one of the clubs was called the Riverboat. is there anyone out there who knows: 1) what the name of the other club was, 2) which (Can/US) was up and which was down and 3) which was named what? simon? are ya out there? anyone? pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:21:44 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Early Joni info ps... Catherine wrote: >>"P. Henry" wrote: to be honest, I don't think she ever mentioned Kelly to *anyone*... I don't know if I could say I was among Joni's 'very closest friends' but we *were* close... I say this because we spent many hours together and she did share many very personal things with me that one would typically only discuss with a trusted amigo. in retrospect, not having even known about it, it explains a lot... the long silences... the barely concealed sorrow... I think she really went through hell about it and my feeling is she probably literally *couldn't* talk about it... without 'bustin' up'.>> >Pat, you've just given us a glimpse of Joni reality, expressed in simple, but such eloquent, terms. I swear to God, reading this, my eyes are misting over, there's a lump in my throat and I've got goosebumps.> ===== Catherine, I can't say it any better... "Child with a child pretending Weary of lies you are sending home So you sign all the papers in the family name You're sad and you're sorry, but you're not ashamed Little green, have a happy ending" pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:58:42 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: V-A-C-A-T-I-O-N Tomorrow morning Travis & I are leaving on an extended road trip that is designed to hit as many stops where family reside as we can possibly get to in three weeks. I will be reconnecting with most of my late partner Edward's family in the great states of Montana & South Dakota next week. Then it's on to Omaha to check in at my brother's place. After that we trek across Iowa to spend a few precious days with my mom & dad. Then back to Omaha to participate in my nephew's wedding on the 17th. Then a fairly leisurely drive back to Washington state through Wyoming, the Grand Tetons & Yellowstone National Park. This is a trip that had to take priority over just about everything else. As a result, I never was able to even consider going to New Orleans, much as I *really* wanted to go. So I hope you can forgive me, Michael Paz. It sounds like I missed out on the party to end all parties! Unfortunately there was no way we could be there & also do this trip. I haven't seen Edward's mom in a few years (she had a stroke a year or so ago and has recovered nicely, from what I've heard) and as you all will understand, it is very important for me to spend time with my own parents. My nephew asked me to be in his wedding and that set it all in motion. I couldn't very well say no. Anyway, enough with the boring personal stuff. I just can't face coming back to three weeks worth of email or three weeks worth of digests. So for the first time since I joined the JMDL (which was almost right at the beginning) I am signing off completely. It feels like trying to quit an addictive drug cold turkey. I will miss you all terribly and it kills me that you will go on talking & discussing without me. But that's how it is and how it should be. As Billie put it: Makes no difference how I carry on Please don't talk about me Don't you talk about me Please don't talk about me when I'm gone! (How egocentric does that sound? Sheesh!) Love to All, Mark in Seattle (soon to be in Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa & Wyoming) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 22:13:56 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Early Joni info ps... and finally i ask, what else could she do? mags. "P. Henry" wrote: > Catherine wrote: > >>"P. Henry" wrote: > to be honest, I don't think she ever mentioned > Kelly to *anyone*... I don't know if I could say > I was among Joni's 'very closest friends' but we > *were* close... I say this because we spent many > hours together and she did share many very > personal things with me that one would typically > only discuss with a trusted amigo. in > retrospect, not having even known about it, > it explains a lot... the long silences... the > barely concealed sorrow... I think she really > went through hell about it and my feeling is she > probably literally *couldn't* talk about it... > without 'bustin' up'.>> > > >Pat, you've just given us a glimpse of Joni > reality, expressed in simple, but such eloquent, > terms. I swear to God, reading this, my eyes > are misting over, there's a lump in my throat > and I've got goosebumps.> > > ===== > > Catherine, > I can't say it any better... > > "Child with a child pretending > Weary of lies you are sending home > So you sign all the papers in the family name > You're sad and you're sorry, but you're not ashamed > Little green, have a happy ending" > > pat > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:17:57 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: V-A-C-A-T-I-O-N Happy trails to you, Mark. See you in three weeks. We'll not discuss anything important until you're back. "Boston Jim" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 14:24:05 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Favorite Joni Songs Jim wrote: >I'll have to submit another Top 20 (Vol. 2), picking up where this one left >off, sometime later on down the road. > >So...what are your faves? Here are mine: Last year, Bob compiled a list of everyone's favourite songs from each album, which I thought might go some way to answering your question. Here's the list (more than one means a tie): STAS - Cactus Tree Clouds - That Song About The Midway LOTC - Rainy Night House Blue - A Case Of You FTR - Woman Of Heart And Mind MOA - Love Or Money HOSL - Sweet Bird Hejira - Amelia DJRD - DJRD Mingus - The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay/The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines WTRF - Chinese Cafe DED - Ethiopia CAS - The Same Situation CMIARS - Secret Place SAL - Amelia/Hejira NRH - Two Grey Rooms TI - The Sire Of Sorrow/Turbulent Indigo/Magdalene Laundries TTT - Love Puts On A New Face/Harlem In Havana Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:24:30 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Marcels take Thanks very, very much for all four of your wonderful posts, Marcel. "Do you know what it means to miss New Orleans, when that's where you left your heart?" Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 14:25:53 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: This whole thing about Judy Collins... NJC Catherine wrote: >Colin, I think this happens due to how and when people >receive their posts, when they read them, and when or >whether they decide to respond. I've been guilty of >this myself on more than one occasion - and so have >you, pally! ;) If you're reading through a whole pile >of e-mails, you may respond to them as you get them - >later, another one arrives that offers clarification >of the first but, by this time, you've already >responded to the first, thereby setting off another >reaction. Which is exactly what I did when I read the initial newspaper/magazine article. Which is why I'm now feeling pretty humble (not to mention embarassed) about my knee-jerk reaction. And if Judy IS out there somewhere, I'd like to offer an apology for my outburst! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:18:52 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Marcels take: Pazfest: Night of Nights part 3 Marcel, What great descriptions of it alll! I was telling several people off-list about this magical concert and also attributed its from-another-dimension magnificence to some divine spirit or spirits which descended in force at the Howlin Wolf that night. There is no other explanation for such unerring, perfect, brilliant and inspired excellence in every single performance. There was something much bigger than any mere mortal there and it infused the place the entire night. Every single performer was beyond fantastic. You wrote: > Jack Neilson: Song About the Midway/ Blue Boy > Ah Jack me boy, you are a treasure. All this time for two days the guy lays in the weeds telling >everyone else that they are great and all the time he knows it is he who is fantastic. This was our >transportation sheriff during our trip. Not one word about HIS music. Our sweet, very humble driver Jack blew my mind. Claudia (I think) and I happened to hear a preview of him after Lahm's rehearsal at Paz's Saturday morning and we dropped our jaws. > Denise Marie: Blue Motel Room/ Furry Sings the Blues This lady was too much. A very cute Pixie >like face and at first listen a squeeky little talking voice. How could she do blues? You had to be >there. I called her "Gidget meets Macy Gray" - she is wonderfully unique! > Kim Prevost w/Bill Salley: Woodstock/ Both Sides Now > This is where it got very interesting. Bill Salley is a virtuoso jazz guitarist. Kim is a tall black lady >whose singing reminded me of Dinah Washington. Salleys Mickey Bakeresque chording took the >basic melody lines to uncharted waters. Her voice was smoothe as silk. Two more mindblowers. I remember Bob ecstatically clutching his throat and saying he couldn't breathe and offering him some of my Benadryl allergy pills ;-D > Beth Patterson: Ladies of the Canyon > Return of the bazouki player. Shes a stunning blond to begin with and plays > an unusual instrument besides. The way she did this song is maybe the way the > song should actually be played. The bazouki adds this raw energy and unique > melodic sound. She has a fantastic alto voice and her version of this song > just kicked all our colective arses. Amen. I'm listening to her album "Hybrid Vigor" right now and it is unbelievable. (By the way, Mr. Paz is listed in the "Thanks to" comments). She looks like a cross between an elf and Christie Brinkley and calls her music "Irish-Bayou." I remember Lamadoo going up to her wide-eyed with mouth agape saying "You're a MONSTER" and she thanked him very much with a big smile. She was incredible on Hejira during Paz's set. Another totally unique and over the top talented artist. Mr. Dulson would love her very much, I think ;-) > Jason Marsalis Band Can't even begin to describe it and am glad Marcel was able to articulate it some. At this point some of us were fainting on the floor and had to be revived and propped up. > Kevin Danzig & Cat Whooley: The Priest/ Trouble Child This husband and wife team get big special merit from me. The Priest song has never been one of my favorites - until I experienced their performance of it. Lordy, Lordy, Lordy. > Leigh "Little Queenie" Harris: Dreamland/ Goodbye Pork Pie Hat/ Twisted > K.D. Lang has met her match. Queenie is one of those cultural icons that > inhabit the music Business. An absolutely unstoppable voice and so much stage > presence that I sit in total wonder of how this person ever developed into > what Im seeing. You cant invent someone like this they have to create > themselves. About an hour earlier I was standing by this pole watching the > perfortmances in wonder and I get this tap on the shoulder. I turn and > standing about 5 feet tall with this burr hair do in a pink windbreaker and > black short shorts and the torso of a frog. Like what on earth is this. I also encountered Little Queenie. She suddenly appeared at my side, chatting me up and telling me that her friend Susan Cowsill wanted to buy the dress I was wearing. (I was tempted to offset the cost of my trip and would not have had a problem exchanging it for the slightly tattered Robin Hood dress Susan was wearing.;-) She told me she grew up in the Valley in L.A. and had a good friend named Kakki in high school. I had no idea who she was. She offhandedly said she "may do a few numbers later." Geezorino, did she ever! > David Lahm: Four Songs > I got to converse with David during the three days and meeting him was special. hard to beleive he is >actually part of our JMDL community. My exact thoughts and words all this week! Thanks to him once again for being there and everything else. > Brian Thomas: Black Crow/ Little Green/ All I want > I was so thrilled at how good his performance was that I found myself > looking skyward now certain that this mystical spirit had not yet left the > house. It was still here, still working, still blessing us to the very end > with incredible performances. Was it ever! The final, wonderful magical appearance of the night. Thank you Bry for hanging in and giving an incredible performance at almost 3 in the morning! >You should all be proud of all the members who played. Absolutely we should all. Kakki NP: Beth Patterson - Steer By The Stars ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #307 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?