From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #291 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Monday, May 29 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 291 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Least Favorite Songs [catman ] Re: Least Favorite Songs [catman ] Re: Hartford Courant Review ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #290 [NoeysMaMa@aol.com] Re: the "mystery" of Hissing ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Huh (NJC) ["P. Henry" ] sqeaks ["P. Henry" ] UK fest part 2 ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: Joni and Van Gogh in Detroit ["P. Henry" ] Least favorite ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: Squeaky Vocals [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Re: Joni and Van Gogh in Detroit ["cassy" ] Re: Brian Hinton's Joni Bio ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #283 ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Who Wants To Be A Joni Millionaire -- Level 2 ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Kate Bush NJC [Christopher Otterbeck ] Joni at FleetBoston Pavilion ["mjf 2001" ] Re: Joni Millionaire (S'toon) [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 02:18:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Least Favorite Songs > > Again, Joni having some fun. What's the problem with that? Does she > always have to be the intellectual, tragic muse? Maybe people the reasons some of us dislike has nothing to do with the above. I for one don't like it because of the tune and the chorus. It grates on me. It has nothing whateevr to do with the lyric. > > This song is so witty and reminds me so much of times when the only > entertainment available was going out cruising around in somebody's > car. I love the lines 'when it comes to mathematics, I get static in > the attic' and 'Ray's dad teaches math, zero, I'm a dunce, I'm a > decimal in his class.' Maybe they're not deep but this song has > wonderful lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 02:33:34 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Least Favorite Songs A song i would say is fun is twisted. One of my favourite Joni tracks, even if she didn't write it. It's a good laugh and i imagine joni giving the finger whilst she sings it. brilliant. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:47:37 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Hartford Courant Review > The liveliest arrangements of Connecticut-born Vince Mendoza, who also > conducted, added a Nelson Riddle pizazz similar to the in-studio orchestral > work of Sinatra in the '60s. Am I the only one who doesn't think the arrangements on Both Sides Now sound like Nelson Riddle? To me Vince Mendoza's arrangements don't so much have 'pizazz' as they have drama. The ballads remind me of the scores of classic films composed by the likes of Max Steiner or Korngold and the more swinging numbers have a lighter touch to them than Nelson Riddle's stuff did. I think they're tailored very well to Joni's persona & voice. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:54:19 EDT From: NoeysMaMa@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #290 <> I agree. I like both the albums, but I don't think of Hejira as the pinnacle of Joni's creation. BUT the version of Hejira that she's currently performing blows my mind. Much love to all. Mindy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:24:17 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: the "mystery" of Hissing Scott quoted Joni from Rolling Stone 1979: > The basic theme of the album, which everybody thought was so abstract, was > just any summer day in any neighborhood when people turn their sprinklers > on all up and down the block. It's just that hiss of suburbia." Mark wrote: >And whether >she intended it or not, I think there is more there than just >observations of a day in Suburbia. I think there's a heck of alot more there than "just that hiss of suburbia", and I think it has to have been intentional. The metaphors in every song work on so many levels, and are so full of meaning, it cannot have been a lucky accident. While the hiss of lawn sprinklers is a lovely image, and evocative of suburbia, the hissing in the grass usually refers to a snake, as Joni has helpfully illustrated on Hissing's cover. The best known snake is the one which resided in Eden, which convinced Eve, through the use of cunning language to eat a fruit from the tree of knowledge, thus to become conscious and capable of independent thought. Joni is the snake, metaphorically, hissing in the lawn, offering the fruit of music and poetry, to make us question the "paradise" for which we've been sold a bill of goods: the suburban ideal, the bohemian ideal, the patriarchal ideal, political power, financial power, law, the devil, God, charity, youth and physical beauty. Joni is Eve, becoming conscious and questioning the same things. "Don't interrupt the sorrow, Darn right" Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:26:18 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Fw: Hissing Here's part of a post that Bill Dollinger wrote last July about THOSL and my response. Mark in Seattle > > Bill Dollinger wrote: > > > > >The verb > > hissing I think is also a rather negative judgment of the human > > interactions represented by the suburbs--gossip, backbiting, etc. > > > > -As Michael mentions, the hissing of summer lawns > > does refer to the sprinkler sounds. I think also that > > it is a strong reinforcement of one of the albums > > central themes- that which is most obvious in The > > Jungle Line. Beneath the clean, ordered suburban > > environment, as well as in the cities (and the > > deep deep heart of dixie blue) we retain aspects > > of a more primitive nature. She may have her house > > and garden and a living room that smells like lemon > > pledge, but the hissing serves as a reminder that > > the "jungle line" will always be there. > > > > bill > > I think you're onto something here, Bill. This imagery runs > throughout > the album. The primitive in its more innocent form is expressed by > the > girl in bloom under neon signs who is rollin', rollin' rock & rollin > while the other woman is 'fading in a suburban room'. In 'The Jungle > Line' the primitive has been twisted into something sinister and > destructive that insinuates itself like a snake 'through i-bars & > girders/through wires & pipes/the mathematic circuits of the modern > nights'. It reaches out in the form of the Kingpin & grabs Edith > while > 'the wires in the walls are humming'. The conflict between the > ordered > world of those 'snug in your Bible Belt dreams' and the primitive > 'Anima > rising' provides the backdrop and background for the conflict between > the lovers in 'Don't Interrupt the Sorrow'. 'Scarlett' personifies > the > image - 'cast iron & frail, with her impossibly gentle hands and her > blood red fingernails...beauty and madness to be praised..' The > second > side of the vinyl starts off with the title cut, a song about a woman > imprisoned in that well-ordered world trying to remain oblivious to > and > shut out it's dark underpinnings - 'he put up a barbed wire fence/to > keep out the unknown/and on every metal thorn/just a little blood of > his > own...he gave her his darkness to regret/and good reason to quit > him...'. 'The Boho Dance' shows how the conflict affects the artist > who > claims he wants to stay in touch with his primitive, inner self but is > 'looking and longing on the sly' at the seemingly comfortable world > of material wealth and artifice. The song ends with Joni's conclusion > that she is part of neither world and also part of both - but not a > symbol of either - 'nothing is capsulized in me on either side of > town/the streets were never really mine/not mine, not mine these > glamour > gowns'. 'Harry's House' elaborates further on the themes of the title > track, showing the couple locked into their roles as housewife & > breadwinner but dissatisfied and cut off from themselves as they > 'paper > their walls to keep their gut reactions hid'. In 'Sweet Bird' Joni > says > that 'behind our eyes' are 'calendars of our lives/circled with > compromise'. The days of our lives are circled with compromise and it > ages us and in turn draws circles under our eyes while the sweet bird > of > youth laughs at us. And finally in 'Shadows in Light' she sums it all > up, showing that there is good and bad in every aspect of life, > whether > we choose to stay in the narrow confines of the middle class suburban > world or abandon the artifice of that world and pursue our primitive > urges. Either way is inevitably self-destructive and in the end, > balance is the only way to maintain our sanity. > > Wow! I think I just had a 'Joni epiphany'! > > Mark in Seattle > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:33:02 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Huh (NJC) waddaya call this?: "Joni is great! period! she is better on her worst day than most are on their best and her art is so far out of site of most other artists it's not even funny." >...let us get back to discussing the music and art of Joni Mitchell...> Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:55:59 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: sqeaks carlton, in the old days we used to search out Singer sewing machine oil and clean out strings with it between shows. (grasp each string individually and very tightly between thumb and forefinger wrapped in a soft cloth soaked in the stuff and rub it up and down the length of the string vigorously. hint: if you're not making awful noises that remind you of fingernails on chalkboards, you're not doing it right) it seemed to help some. I never thought the spray stuff was quite as good but it does reduce the sqeaking some also. hope that helps pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:59:25 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: UK fest part 2 Chris, I don't suppose I could persuade you to reschedule the fest for the 2nd week of August? I will come bearing gifts from Joni's tour...not that I am bribing you or anything :-) Sue Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:06:48 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Joni and Van Gogh in Detroit cassy wrote: >Call it serendipity, but when Joni hits Michigan's Pine Knob next Wednesday there is a show of Vincent Van Gogh at the Detroit Institute of Arts at the same time. See information about the exhibit at: http://www.detnews.com/specialreports/2000/vangogh/index.htm > even more so as the DIOA is virtually 'right across the street' from where she first lived in the US and also, some would say, where she began this whole journey. pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:07:22 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Least favorite Hi all, Many songs that have been listed are some of my least favorite as well. I mean, seriously, how many times can you listen to Ethopia consecutively? In that same vein Last Chance Lost just sort of grinds on me. The first few strains of Joni's voice almost sound like a whinning child. Laaaaast chance lawwwwwwst...Yikes! Sue Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:11:46 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: Squeaky Vocals > > on the squeek issue,,,,or is it squeak issue....i personally like hearing > them and have no problem with them. but i remember a few years ago this > thread ran and a particular woman told me i was sick if i liked the sound of > fingers on joni's recordings. to me they added intimacy to the music. pat > This reminds me of vocal techniques... like the way Tori sings, very breathy and you can hear every vocal nuance which for some is annoying or can be an unique vocal signature. Mostly I don't mind her dramatic use of breath but I have to admit that with the last album (To Venus and Back) I'm finding her a little 'overproduced'. I adore her first album as it was so refreshing to hear such obviously painful subjects dealt with in an honest manner. The rape didn't put it off, rather it touched me as it's not the sort of subject one casually discusses let alone sing about in such a vivid manner. I believe that we need to talk about all subjects and for an artist to expose themselves so completely can be liberating and healing for a listener. I heard Tori (Little earthquakes) around the same time that I found Joni and of all albums "Blue". Both beautiful yet painful albums that really spoke to me. I was 17, disillusioned with friendship and love and feeling brutalised by the apathy of others. I found solace and hope in these albums and a voice as they helped articulate what I felt. The issues may not be the same but the feelings were. Ohh, this reply has completely transmuted from vocal techniques to an entirely new tangent! Sorry... I get carried away at times. Vanessa P.S. Welcome to all the newcomers and new posters... sorry I don't know all your names it's difficult on digest to keep up. Also, keep up the great work Wally K. He 'always' sends a warm greeting to each individual which is lovely. N.P. The Bananas in Pajamas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:05:43 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Joni and Van Gogh in Detroit Pat added: >>> even more so as the DIOA is virtually 'right across the street' from where she first lived in the US and also, some would say, where she began this whole journey. <<< My husband and I have decided that a trip to DIA might be in order the day after the concert... who knows who might be in attendance? Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:35:18 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Brian Hinton's Joni Bio Jim wrote: >Yesterday I picked up the biography, Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now by Brian >Hinton. >I haven't started reading it yet, and was curious as to any opinions of it. This has been discussed quite a bit here (although not recently) and the general concensus is that there is much in the book that is incorrect, ie. Hinton seems to have just made stuff up! On the other hand, if you're not looking for a "biographical" or factual account of Joni Mitchell's life, then I still found it to be pretty interesting, since Hinton is obviously a big fan, and I found it pretty easy to read. If you're looking for another good Joni read, try Stacey Hinton's book "The Joni Mitchell Companion - Four Decades of Commentary". This contains news articles and interviews with Joni herself, and gives a pretty good biographical account. I would rate it MUCH higher than Hinton's book. Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:36:45 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #283 Mike wrote: >I definitely have to agree with Lead Balloon. This is not her finest >moment. But we can't be perfect all the time and someone may >absolutely love this one. (who would that be)? I really like Lead Balloon, but I don't like Taming The Tiger - "nice, kitty, kitty" - stupid line! But I love Tiger Bones - probably my favourite track on TTT! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Hicks To: joni@smoe.org Date: Saturday, 27 May 2000 02:08 Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #283 > Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:17:53 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #283 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Least Favorite Joni Songs Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:38:02 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Who Wants To Be A Joni Millionaire -- Level 2 Don wrote: >The song "The Windfall" was inspired by: > >a. A Waltzing Matilda >b. A Whiling Dervish >c. A Kicking Maid >d. A Latin Lover But shouldn't the answer to this be "None of the above"? I thought the maid was the kickee, not the kicker! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:39:42 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: celebrating difference NJC >colin wrote: > > we are all different and >that difference is to be celebrated and not defiled. And a quote I really like from JFK (along similar line): "If we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity" Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:11:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Otterbeck Subject: Kate Bush NJC Bruce wrote: "PS By chance, are there any Hissing fans out there in Joni-land who are also keen on Kate Bush's "The Dreaming" or R L Jones' "Western Slopes"? Superior women!" Bruce, Another Kate fan here! The Dreaming is one of my favs, in fact, been listening to it for days now! lol Christopher NP There goes a Tenner __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 05:20:32 GMT From: "mjf 2001" Subject: Joni at FleetBoston Pavilion Wow..... it's 1:07, and I must work tomorrow. I'm working on the full review, but I just wanted to say a word about what this night meant to me. She was so brilliant, so beautiful. The music just pours through her and from her in this project. It was such an honor to be in her presence tonight.... More to come on that in the review. On the "stuff" subject ('cuz you gotta get the merch), we got ourselves a signed "yellow roses" litho, and I got a couple of shirts and a hat. Signed lithos were up to $200 from the previously-mentioned $175, with unsigned lithos priced at $50. I managed to snag a couple of the programs that were being handed out, too. It was truly a night I will always remember. How could I ever thank her enough for all the joy she's brought us? An amazing experience. mjf ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:39:39 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Joni Millionaire (S'toon) Susan LA wrote: <> Well, I think I'd be far less uptight about meeting Joni this time....maybe I'll even remember to breathe. ;-) But this will not be a repeat for me when it comes to her visual art....I've not seen any of her paintings in person yet. That's why I chose to go to the Mendel rather than fly to one of her BSN concert stops. I'm truly excited about examining these works up close. ;-) <> Although I know a few of us have been working on her to go, at last word she hasn't caved in and made any arrangements. You want to join our little conspiracy? I realize L.A. can handle Joni and Kakki simultaneously, but can S'toon? ;-D <> How exciting! Is Take 5 an art or local rag? Maybe you could post the interview to the list. If you happened to cite Joni as an artistic ideal you wouldn't even have to include the NJC tag. ;-) <> Sure thing! <> Thanks! And of course I'd be happy to pick up something for you. Hopefully I won't be as busy this week as the last several so I can contact the Mendel, cuz I've been meaning to find out if they know which prints will be available and prices for those and the exhibit catalog. Or has any other lister already checked into that? Anyone...anyone? <> Twice! ;-D Penny PS to be continued off-list. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #291 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?