From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #278 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 24 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 278 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Non-Joni Rainy Day List [Leslie Mixon ] Misadventures (NJC!) [Joseph Palis ] Inner Circle (NJC) [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas"/Joni's "River" - NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Ignoring questions and first-posters - NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Joni Mitchell Tour Report, 05/22/00, NYC - MSG ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Oprah Outed NJC [catman ] New York Times review 5/24 [Deb Messling ] Re: Mendel exhibit [catman ] RE: Blocking A Sender, NJC ["Peg Eves" ] RE: Inner Circle (NJC) ["Peg Eves" ] The Last Time I.....(NJC - a parody) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Oprah Outed NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Joni's bitterest lyrics ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Inner Circle (NJC) [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Fw: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change ["James L. Leonard" ] MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics [Janene Otten ] NY Times review of MSG 05/22 [SMEBD@aol.com] Re. Joni's bitterest lyrics [Linda Worster ] Re: Oprah Outed NJC [catman ] Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics [Gellerray@aol.com] "Urge For Going" Covers Question ["James L. Leonard" ] Lyrics for your emotional life [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:22:21 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Non-Joni Rainy Day List Laura Nyro & LaBelle - Gonna Take A Miracle Carole King - Tapestry James Taylor - Hourglass Stevie Wonder - Talking Book Works every time! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:15:13 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Misadventures (NJC!) Great story, Coyote! I wouldn't have known what to do if I were in your shoes. Reminds me of one of my adventures quite similar to Coyote but not as fun and scary at the same time. I was teaching a course in the University and that semester I was to show my students David Lean's A PASSAGE TO INDIA. A day before the actual film showing, I went to a mall frequented by pirates (both literal and figurative) and bought me a VHS copy of the tape. When I went home and viewed the tapes (it was 3 hours long), I realized that VideoMeister (my version of Coyote's TicketMeister) gave me two similar tapes showing only part two (where Mrs. Moore's body was dumped in the ocean). I went back to the VideoShoppe and returned the tape so VideoMeister can replace it with Part One. There was no Part One and we cannot find one in the shop. It was already closing time (8pm thereabouts) and he suggested a lot of films to replace A PASSAGE TO INDIA. But since I already told my students about the film (even hyped it and highlighted the rift between director David Lean and his headstrong and mega-talented actress Judy Davis, so they can at least be interested in the behind-the-scene stories to make them want to see a period film) and already reserved a viewing room, and there being nothing to approximate the film's scope and relevance to our class I said to VideoMeister that it had to be A PASSAGE TO INDIA at all cost. Since business is business, and because Rule No. 1 says I have to be right no matter what happens (ha!), he offerred to make a VHS copy of the film from the laser disc. Problem was, I don't know who has a copy and for Chrissakes, it was evening and I am to show the film at 7:00 a.m. I must have been frustrated and desperate for I found myself in his car and we were going towards Chinatown of Manila so he can ask his friends who has a laser copy to let his borrow it. As for my continued presence in all these road trips, I don't know why I was there. When he found one friend of his who can lend his laser copy, I went back to the Shop with VideoMeister and he started to copy while watching the film. It must have been 9:30 p.m. I told him I have to go home and he said that he'll give me a call anytime (between 12 midnight to 2am) so I can pick it up. I agreed. I didn't sleep well that night. In fact, I didn't remember sleeping because I might not hear the phone when it rings (weird huh?). It was 2 am - no ring. I wanted to listen to loud music to make me stay awake (btw I put in Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You" and cranked the volume when she was caterwauling the "...aaannnd aaaaayyyyeyyyayyyyy weeelllll always luv youuuuuuuu" only to have our roof showered with pebbles and shouts and hollers from my folks at home). It was 3am -- still no call. The whole soundtrack of THE BODYGUARD played itself already ... 3:30...4:00 and then a ring. VideoMeister is on the phone and says I can go pick it up from this place in Manila. I went out and hailed a taxi and pretty soon I was in Manila's red light district. I called him from his celfone and I was instructed to go inside Bobelles ( a strip joint) and get it from him. I was already wary and was kinda anxious because Bobelles does not have lights (not even the Christmas lights to indicate .... great fun inside). When I entered, there was this big guy who ushered me. Inside, there was a billiard table, a karaoke and the air smells of things Hunter S. Thompson only described in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas"). A drunken VideoMeister came out and told me that he finished watching the film at 12 past and decided to watch the film again in VHS format to check if the resolution was good or there were no defects. Thanking him, I got it from him and paid him. But he said "come on, let's be partners in this billiard game." I told him I have to go and show it to my students in less than 3 hours, but his friends came over and said something like "hey, VideoMeister spent time watching that godawful boring film twice and not drink with us, and you refuse to play billiards?" I don't see the logic much because my brain is no longer functional past 4:00am. So I played with them and was offered stick after stick of cigarettes (no hashish of any kind). After the game was over, I thanked them and told them I should be going. VideoMeister offered to drive me home, but looking at him, he looks like a road accident already, so I politely refused and left the place. I was 2 blocks away from Bobelles when I realized I left the tapes inside. AAArrrrggghhhh. I went back and knocked and the same guy opened the door and told everyone I came back to play ....... They obviously thought I would, and when I told them I am back only because of the tape, they won't hear any of it. So I did what a desperate guy would do in the same situation... Grabbed the tapes and ran to the exit and hailed the first taxi that came along. They were obviously too drunk to follow.... All these because of the film... and I vowed never to do 007 stunts again. Ha! I told my students to be patient with the film's slow pace because it will reveal itself slowly... then I slept when they were all watching. :-) No regrets, too. Joseph (who is better in swimming than in billiards) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:27:45 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Inner Circle (NJC) May I ask a serious question? I was one of the ones who responded to Jim's 'original' post. Although my name hasn't been mentioned or my post even referred too, I'm wondering if the latest posts are directed at me? I had hoped that I hadn't offended anyone and I'm assuming that I didn't as I never received any responses however I too was one who cited feeling uncomfortable at times on the List when airing my opinions. I hope I didn't point the finger at particular people and I hope I didn't deliberately hurt anyone, I was merely saying this as when I post I rarely see replies... if at all. I've noticed that the thread is mainly centering around 4 people and it's appears to have gotten a little cruel and I'm wondering am I included in the last lot of intentionally hurtful emails? If you want me to leave the List I shall but I never meant to be deliberately nasty... I obviously misinterpreted the first email that begun this whole mess and for that I apologise. I however stick to my original post (which is archived) and say that I have met some incredibly wonderful people on this List and as a whole it's been great. I'm wondering now if this will make any difference or if in fact I'll even receive replies. Here's hoping that we/I find this all to be a horrible dream and we'll awake to better threads and posts. BTW, thank you to all those who've published their Joni reviews... a great review helps alleviate the loneliness. Here's wishing Joni would tour here :-( Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:35:12 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas"/Joni's "River" - NJC Bob wrote: >Maybe, but if she wants to talk holiday prep, why not talk about >decorating the tree, or making cookies, or baking a turkey, or singing >carols or something a little more joyous than chopping down a tree...? > >I think the lyric goes hand in hand with "paved paradise, put up a >parking lot", not that Joni's a tree-hugger but that she sees the >destruction of natural beauty in the creation of what we attemp to recreate >as something beautiful. Every time I think of cutting down a Xmas tree (which we do every year, because there's nothing like the smell of fresh-cut pine - and we always go to a place that grows them specially) I remember a billboard I saw years ago - I can't even remember where - that said "Jesus did NOT say 'Kills trees for Xmas'" I think of it every time I hear River too. And it always makes me laugh! Hell NP: The cat trying to murder a piece of string I've just given him to play with, because I got tied of playing "Police Cat" with him - imagine a police dog biting and holding an offenders arm, but with a cat (and it hurts)! _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:35:02 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Cassette Branches Wanted With all these new JMDLers there is a big untapped need to reproduce Simon's JMDL tape trees. Please contact me if you're interested in discussing same. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:42:20 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Ignoring questions and first-posters - NJC Jim wrote: >I'm as guilt of this as anyone since sometimes I "delete, delete, delete" >(as MG so eloquently put it. uh oh, is that eletist?). [spelling?] >I agree that we as a group could do better at acknowledging questions and >first-time posts!! You're right, it would be nice. But when I've got 150 emails waiting to be read, and it's 11pm at night, sometimes I just miss things, or think "Oh, someone else will answer that" and I hit delete. I'll try and be more careful, and more courteous, in the future. But we've all had posts ignored on the list - personally, I've had hundreds, but then with the number that I post, and their relevance to anyone but me, that's hardly surprising! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:58:34 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Inner Circle (NJC) Vanessa-don't you dare go. I am certain no one is referring to you. I am also sure no one wrote emails that were intentionally hurtful-just insensitive. emails get taken in all sorts of ways, even jokes get flamed, even stuff that is written plain as day does not mean what it says so people get irate and make mistakes. Whatever, I am absolutely sure no one was meaning you. I am sorry that you thought this. take care colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:01:24 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Tour Report, 05/22/00, NYC - MSG Patrick wrote (and I've "snipped" heavily!): >Then into "A Case of You", which drew the first standing ovation. First of all, thank you for the review Patrick, very cool! Actually, thank you to everyone who has posted a review on the list. The more detailed the better - I can almost pretend that I was there! Although I don't have any souvenirs - yet! I was just struck by the comment about the standing ovation for A Case Of You. There was another post today (sorry, my mouse got carried away on the delete button, so I can't give due credit) with a review from the UK's Daily Mail, which also mentioned a standing ovation at one of Joni's own songs (BSN, I think) at the LA concert. If she's getting a standing ovation each time she sings one of her own songs with an orchestra, can you imagine what it will be like after she records the next orchestrated album? (That didn't come out right, but you know what I mean - the one where she sings an entire album of her own songs, with an orchestra). Imagine the reaction at the concerts - I'm not assuming she's going to tour again after this one, I KNOW she is ;o) As much as I love Both Sides Now, I'm going to be in complete bliss when this project is finished and in my hot little hands. There's nothing like Joni singing Joni. And with a 70-piece orchestra? Heaven. Hell P.S. I abbreviated Madison Square Garden to MSG in the subject of this post, but it doesn't look right. What has Chinese food got to do with Joni? And why is it No Yanni Content? P.P.S. I'm trying to fight off the first winter cold (and stomach 'flu) and losing - it's going to be a long week/weekend. Expect a LOT more posts. And I'm sorry. I'm really, really, really, really sorry. _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:13:23 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Mendel exhibit I just booked a hotel room in Saskatoon. Somebody tell me not to do this. We have 2 cars with 350,000 miles between them, and we're saving for a house. I hope Mr. Shatner is right about the cheap plane tickets! Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:26:34 +0100 From: catman Subject: Oprah Outed NJC I promise I will explain every joke to you very carefully next time. And thanks for letting us know about the flame entitlement. Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Colin, if you are joking, that's fine. But say so. I've seen you make > inflammatory, ridiculous, statements like for years, then, having nothing to > support them, you retreat into belief. > > Are you anti-intellectual? Do you know the difference between a credible > news source and the National Enquirer? Are you capable of a serious > discourse? Do you understand that there is a difference between school-boy > humor and serious news? What's going on with you? Please tell us that > you're joking. You're scaring me. > > Before everyone trashes me, I'll state in my own defense, "Yes, I know this > is a "flame" but it's my first one. I'm allowed one, right?" > > No longer silent in Cincinnati, > One of the "other" Jims, in Cincinnati. > catman wrote: > I promise I will explain every joke to you very carefully next time. And thanks > for letting us know about the flame entitlement. > > Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > > Colin, if you are joking, that's fine. But say so. I've seen you make > > inflammatory, ridiculous, statements like for years, then, having nothing to > > support them, you retreat into belief. > > > > Are you anti-intellectual? Do you know the difference between a credible > > news source and the National Enquirer? Are you capable of a serious > > discourse? Do you understand that there is a difference between school-boy > > humor and serious news? What's going on with you? Please tell us that > > you're joking. You're scaring me. > > > > Before everyone trashes me, I'll state in my own defense, "Yes, I know this > > is a "flame" but it's my first one. I'm allowed one, right?" > > > > No longer silent in Cincinnati, > > One of the "other" Jims, in Cincinnati. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's all a Dream, She has awoke..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:20:40 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: New York Times review 5/24 Joni Mitchell Transcends the Musical Packages By BEN RATLIFF It was a little startling to hear Joni Mitchell one of pop music's most iconic and stubborn free spirits announce from the stage of the Theater at Madison Square Garden on Monday night that she was about to take the audience on "an old- fashioned journey through romantic love." Not that she hasn't written about all kinds of romantic love before in her own onrushing imagistic way or that she doesn't have a right to be old-fashioned;, it was the presentation. You have to picture her saying it while standing in a very un-bohemian purple dress in front of an enormous string orchestra. Ms. Mitchell's music comes in two packages: the gnarled, original harmonies and instrumentation of all her past albums and, now, the expensive, lush orchestral music heard on her newest record, "Both Sides Now" (Reprise/WEA). The album is a good-taste songbook of unassailable jazz and pop standards from midcentury, with a few of her own older pieces mixed in; taken together, they form a narrative arc about a love affair. But at their best, the songs, with Vince Mendoza's pleasant, unobtrusive, 1950's-sounding arrangements, become secondary to what Ms. Mitchell as a singer does to them. By lifting her voice out of the matrix of her usual complex arrangements for guitar and keyboards, the record allows you to hear her gifts as a singer more starklyeven if it took a 90-piece studio orchestra to accomplish it. Monday's concert, which began with the orchestra playing Debussy's "Nuages" by way of a prologue, replicated the album track by track, and then proceeded with a few more songs from a forthcoming album projectorchestral, againof Ms. Mitchell's own work. In the "Both Sides Now" portion, Ms. Mitchell commandeered a highly organized, powerful performance, creating confident new readings of old songs. With the thicker, breathier voice of her recent years, Ms. Mitchell especially owned the slow ballads: in "You're My Thrill," making contrary seesaw motions with her hips and shoulders as she sang, she seemed imperious and deeply comfortable; in "Comes Love," with a line like "Don't try hiding, 'cause it isn't any use," the first and last words contained dramatic slidings of pitch, and her rhythmic phrasing, as personal and eccentric as it gets, gave the song a near rewriting. She didn't scat, but she swung the lyrics vehemently, and given the song's association with Billie Holiday, one could say that Ms. Mitchell has suddenly emerged as a great jazz singer. But that limits the point: the way she sang these songs transcends jazz the way Willie Nelson transcends country. The upbeat or faster songs did not quite reach the same mark as the ballads. "Sometimes I'm Happy," with Herbie Hancock sitting in for a piano solo, felt a little too brisk for the size of the band. Finished with the album portion of the concert, Ms. Mitchell went into her own catalog, performing songs that included "Hejira," "Be Cool" and "Judgment of the Moon and Stars." The show's subtext reverted to the cantankerous Joni Mitchell again: this was the distemperate portion of her show, in which she talked about the difficulty of adapting art to business, mentioned that her heroes, Beethoven and Picasso, were troublemakers, and slipped a hostile lyric about copycat artists into her old antimusic industry song, "For the Roses." Though the level of Ms. Mitchell's own performance did not waver, something of the concert's conceptual elegance was lost by the end. There were some train wrecks between the orchestra, the bassist Larry Klein and the jazz quintet at the back of the stage in the effort to give the songs a jazz feel. To the Mitchell fans who vociferously pledged their love all the way through, it didn't matter; the house had already long been torn down. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:38:28 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Mendel exhibit You only live once, deb so enjoy yourself. How often is this opportunity going to come along? bw colin Deb Messling wrote: > > I just booked a hotel room in Saskatoon. Somebody tell me not to do > this. We have 2 cars with 350,000 miles between them, and we're saving for > a house. I hope Mr. Shatner is right about the cheap plane tickets! > > Deb Messling > messling@enter.net > http://www.enter.net/~messling/ > > ~there are only three kinds of people: > those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:28:05 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Blocking A Sender, NJC Jim! You rascal ! Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jim > L'Hommedieu > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 2:54 AM > To: _JMDL - June 98 > Subject: Blocking A Sender, NJC > > > I found a way to block posts from a given e-mail address today when using > Microsoft Outlook Express on a PC. I'm afraid it's pretty complicated and > shouldn't be attempted unless you have a bachelor's degree or > equivalent in > Computer Science. Preferably from one of the American Ivy League schools. > So, for those who qualify only, here's the procedure. > > 1. Click on Inbox in the left hand pane. > 2. Click once on the offending sender whom you wish to block > semi-permenantly. > 3. Choose "Message" from the dropdown list. > 4. Choose "Block Sender". > 5. Choose "No" so you'll always have a reminder of the posts that prompted > you to take this extreme action. > > Don't do this lightly as it's much tougher to remove the block. > Consequently, the procedure is recommended to Master's degree holders or > those posessing the magic hall pass called "Wanda, version 2.33". The > remove instructions are therefore posted on the Inner Circle web > site where > you'll be asked to login, as usual. > > Hope this helps! > > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:28:03 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Inner Circle (NJC) Vanessa, I am new to The List. Two, three weeks, I guess - but I read alot of posts. In my view none of your messages would fall into question by any stretch of the imagination. Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Evan > + Vanessa Thomson > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 5:28 AM > To: Joni Mitchell > Subject: Inner Circle (NJC) > > > > May I ask a serious question? > > I was one of the ones who responded to Jim's 'original' post. Although > my name hasn't been mentioned or my post even referred too, I'm > wondering if the latest posts are directed at me? > > I had hoped that I hadn't offended anyone and I'm assuming that I didn't > as I never received any responses however I too was one who cited > feeling uncomfortable at times on the List when airing my opinions. I > hope I didn't point the finger at particular people and I hope I didn't > deliberately hurt anyone, I was merely saying this as when I post I > rarely see replies... if at all. > > I've noticed that the thread is mainly centering around 4 people and > it's appears to have gotten a little cruel and I'm wondering am I > included in the last lot of intentionally hurtful emails? If you want > me to leave the List I shall but I never meant to be deliberately > nasty... > > I obviously misinterpreted the first email that begun this whole mess > and for that I apologise. I however stick to my original post (which is > archived) and say that I have met some incredibly wonderful people on > this List and as a whole it's been great. > > I'm wondering now if this will make any difference or if in fact I'll > even receive replies. Here's hoping that we/I find this all to be a > horrible dream and we'll awake to better threads and posts. > > BTW, thank you to all those who've published their Joni reviews... a > great review helps alleviate the loneliness. Here's wishing Joni would > tour here :-( > > Vanessa > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:50:47 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: The Last Time I.....(NJC - a parody) Well, last year's home improvement involved ripping up all the carpet and installing new floor tiles. This year, I've moved outside to upgrade the lawn and while struggling with the nuances of garden preparation, Joni's LTISR played in my head. Strange how the Joni mind can work..... The Last Time I Used I Rototiller The last time I used a rototiller was New Jersey in '78 and I told him: "That machine worked like a dream, cutting furrows long and straight through dirt like a knife through cream." The rental center guy laughed and said: "Oh how you amuse, Go look at your lawn it's full of rocks. It's got clay instead of soil and Bermuda grass with runners and roots as strong as iron, strong as iron, When you gonna realize it has roots as strong as iron?" He wheeled the tiller out for me to see and he pushed three button and the blades began to churn And the counter guy came out in John Deere cap and a tee shirt and said: "Get it back by 11:00 or you'll be charged a fee for late return." "Mister, don't worry about me, I said, I've done this before and know just how it will go. You're stereotyping me as a city girl without a clue, Listen, I'll have it back by 10 AM with three plots all tilled, with furrows straight and true, straight and true." I got that rototiller in the car to bring on back and bought some mulch and top soil and plants and started for home to spend the morning turning soil and turn my yard into flowers and grass. I'm gonna get this damn thing to work right, I don't want nobody coming over to my yard telling me how it should go, I'll get those blades through the Bermuda grass someday and pay the late fee for late return late return. only a small price to pay before I get my gorgeous lawn and mow away, only a small price, these late return fees... MG - plants and flowers still alive and well - Day Four ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:54:42 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Oprah Outed NJC In a message dated 5/24/00 4:18:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << Are you anti-intellectual? Do you know the difference between a credible > news source and the National Enquirer? Are you capable of a serious > discourse? Do you understand that there is a difference between school-boy > humor and serious news? What's going on with you? Please tell us that > you're joking. You're scaring me. >> Yoo hoo guys! I believe that the National Enquirer here in the USA is a vastly different rag than the National Enquirer in the U.K. Ours is the one with the headlines that read: "Secret Medical Breakthrough: Monkey nose grafted onto Michael Nesmith's Face!!" If I'm not mistaken, the U.K. one is straight news through and through. (ohh, ok, sure, pun intended!). MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:59:30 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni's bitterest lyrics Bob wrote: >Any other contenders for Joni's bitterest lyric? Pretty much the entire Turbulent Indigo album - I think that's why I love it so much. Actually it's not so much the lyrics, just the whole tone of the album. It's the best "driving to work in the morning" music I know. I am not a morning person, and it really matches my mood! But if I have to narrow it down to specific lyrics then it gets too hard. I tried to think of a few, and some of Little Green comes to mind, The Last Time I Saw Richard, FTR, Lesson In Survival. But I could find a "bitter" lyric in a lot of her songs - and I think that's a lot of her appeal (to me, that is). She's honest, both lyrically and in person. Brutally so at times, and that takes guts. I've always admired that about Joni - I admire it in anyone. Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:36:32 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: Inner Circle (NJC) catman wrote: > Vanessa-don't you dare go. I am certain no one is referring to you. I am > also sure no one wrote emails that were intentionally hurtful-just > insensitive. emails get taken in all sorts of ways, even jokes get > flamed, even stuff that is written plain as day does not mean what it > says so people get irate and make mistakes. > Whatever, I am absolutely sure no one was meaning you. I am sorry that > you thought this. > take care > colin Dear One and all, Thank you for all the lovely responses and for all the kind words. I feel somewhat like a fool... actually I feel like a f**kwit but I didn't want to swear on the List :-) I didn't mean to take all of this so personally. I do think that it wasn't meant for me and that it's all just been a big misunderstanding. I guess it just got to me... I felt guilty as I had also perceived Jim's post to be somewhat harsh and I took it to heart when all the ensuing emails come about. I do hope this resolves now as I would hate to feel like a moron for a long period of time. I can only take small doses of humiliation :-) Perhaps when video net becomes more prevalent we will cut down on the amount of misunderstandings.... here's to egg on my face :-/ Apologises to Jim, Kakki, Howard and Catman for prolonging this and taking it even more out of context. Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:35:01 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Fw: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change From: James L. Leonard To: jlamadoo@one.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change Come on, Jim. The whole unfortunate thing had just about run its course. Peace was being made. I think Howard and Colin, though offended at first, now agree that you meant well in your original post. Why keep the war going? "Lay down your arms." Please. "Boston Jim" NP: Shirley Horn, Here's To Life (highly recommended to BSN fans - arguably the finest vocalist ever to wrap her rich tones around a ballad, orchestral arrangements by Johnny Mandel, and a program which also can be taken as reflective of the "arc" of a love relationship) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:49:03 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers Project (VLJC) Hey Bob, I was just notified by eBay that I was the highest bidder on the Jim Nabors cd with "BSN". I just hope it's not a boot leg. If it is, I promise I will send a letter and a check to Gomer to cover his royalties. Jimmy NP - (Now Packing) for Jonifest YEAH!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:30:34 -0400 From: "Ronda Snyder" Subject: Re: Lyrics for your life movie... > Hey Michael (who gets it;)...that was great....nobody like Joni to soundtrack one's inner visual life...every life should have a great inner soundtrack IMO....Joni's been mine for 30+ years now....Paprika Plains one of my favorites, particularly looking out the window on a long crosscountry flight, with Amelia by my side.. Ronda Snyder http://home.att.net/~ronda.snyder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:54:49 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: ** FLASH ** I agree with Howard!! NJC This is good news, Mark! Sounds like a victory. Heather >I've been meaning to post this. Mom had 18 lymph nodes taken out of >her armpit and they are all clear. The tumor she had removed seems to >be the only one. She will have a course of radiation and that will be >it. The doctors are all anticipating a complete cure. > >Thanks, Bob! > >Love to all, >Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:20:53 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics I feel extremely fortunate that I was able to see Joni perform this way, with the orchestra, no guitar in hand. I, of course, love her guitar and piano playing but see/hearing this incredibly gifted woman, who has inspired me and all of you by an outpouring of her talent over the years, perform songs that have inspired her was a blessing. I know some of you couldn't attend these shows for various reasons but I do hope that there will be a tape made so that you have the chance to see it too. I can be critical, believe me, but all the criticism in the world can't take away Joni's spirit, her charm and grace as her smoky crooning filled the theater. Bravo! And it was a pleasure spending time with you, Colleen. I'm glad you made the trip. I like reading the lyrics here so I will add a bitter and not-so-sweet lyric from a song that seems to pop into my head at the strangest times, like, when I'm at the BAR *lol* (just kidding). "...you go down to the pick-up station craving warmth and beauty - you settle for less than fascination - a few drinks later, you're not so choosy..." and the line "...clutching the night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there something about fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. Peace, Janene np: Bob Dylan at RFK Stadium 6/25/95 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:28:09 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: NY Times review of MSG 05/22 This review appeared in the NY Times today (I copied this off of the NYT Online). Stephen Joni Mitchell Transcends the Musical Packages BEN RATLIFF 05/24/00 It was a little startling to hear Joni Mitchell —— one of pop music's most iconic and stubborn free spirits —— announce from the stage of the Theater at Madison Square Garden on Monday night that she was about to take the audience on "an old-fashioned journey through romantic love." Not that she hasn't written about all kinds of romantic love before in her own onrushing imagistic way or that she doesn't have a right to be old-fashioned;, it was the presentation. You have to picture her saying it while standing in a very un-bohemian purple dress in front of an enormous string orchestra. Ms. Mitchell's music comes in two packages: the gnarled, original harmonies and instrumentation of all her past albums and, now, the expensive, lush orchestral music heard on her newest record, "Both Sides Now" (Reprise/WEA). The album is a good-taste songbook of unassailable jazz and pop standards from midcentury, with a few of her own older pieces mixed in; taken together, they form a narrative arc about a love affair. But at their best, the songs, with Vince Mendoza's pleasant, unobtrusive, 1950's-sounding arrangements, become secondary to what Ms. Mitchell as a singer does to them. By lifting her voice out of the matrix of her usual complex arrangements for guitar and keyboards, the record allows you to hear her gifts as a singer more starkly —— even if it took a 90-piece studio orchestra to accomplish it. Monday's concert, which began with the orchestra playing Debussy's "Nuages" by way of a prologue, replicated the album track by track, and then proceeded with a few more songs from a forthcoming album project —— orchestral, again —— of Ms. Mitchell's own work. In the "Both Sides Now" portion, Ms. Mitchell commandeered a highly organized, powerful performance, creating confident new readings of old songs. With the thicker, breathier voice of her recent years, Ms. Mitchell especially owned the slow ballads: in "You're My Thrill," making contrary seesaw motions with her hips and shoulders as she sang, she seemed imperious and deeply comfortable; in "Comes Love," with a line like "Don't try hiding, 'cause it isn't any use," the first and last words contained dramatic slidings of pitch, and her rhythmic phrasing, as personal and eccentric as it gets, gave the song a near rewriting. She didn't scat, but she swung the lyrics vehemently, and given the song's association with Billie Holiday, one could say that Ms. Mitchell has suddenly emerged as a great jazz singer. But that limits the point: the way she sang these songs transcends jazz the way Willie Nelson transcends country. The upbeat or faster songs did not quite reach the same mark as the ballads. "Sometimes I'm Happy," with Herbie Hancock sitting in for a piano solo, felt a little too brisk for the size of the band. Finished with the album portion of the concert, Ms. Mitchell went into her own catalog, performing songs that included "Hejira," "Be Cool" and "Judgment of the Moon and Stars." The show's subtext reverted to the cantankerous Joni Mitchell again: this was the distemperate portion of her show, in which she talked about the difficulty of adapting art to business, mentioned that her heroes, Beethoven and Picasso, were troublemakers, and slipped a hostile lyric about copycat artists into her old antimusic industry song, "For the Roses." Though the level of Ms. Mitchell's own performance did not waver, something of the concert's conceptual elegance was lost by the end. There were some train wrecks between the orchestra, the bassist Larry Klein and the jazz quintet at the back of the stage in the effort to give the songs a jazz feel. To the Mitchell fans who vociferously pledged their love all the way through, it didn't matter; the house had already long been torn down. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:31:59 -0400 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re. Joni's bitterest lyrics Bob asked: > Any other contenders for Joni's bitterest lyric? geez, there are lots of contenders... :~) but since I've been listening to FTR for days now... "drive your bargains, push your papers, win your medals, fuck your strangers don't it leave you on the empty side..." .......... "you know the times you impress me most, are the times when you don't try... when you don't even try..." That whole song, really.... Linda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:35:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Oprah Outed NJC Dear MG-thank you for your defence. however, the only NE we get here is the very same one that is published in the USA. the whole tone of my emailwas that I was being lighthearted. I was just amazed that someone thought I was that stuuuuupid! And even more amazed they took the post so seriously and used it have a go at me. Like they say you can't please all the people.....my humour doesn't translate for some people. take care colin > > > Yoo hoo guys! I believe that the National Enquirer here in the USA is a > vastly different rag than the National Enquirer in the U.K. > > Ours is the one with the headlines that read: "Secret Medical Breakthrough: > Monkey nose grafted onto Michael Nesmith's Face!!" > > If I'm not mistaken, the U.K. one is straight news through and through. (ohh, > ok, sure, pun intended!). > > MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:38:50 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics In a message dated 5/24/00 7:25:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JaneneO@mji.com writes: << station craving warmth and beauty - you settle for less than fascination - a few drinks later, you're not so choosy..." and the line "...clutching the night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there something about fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. >> IT's from the Bible honey--it's what Adam and Eve used to "clothe" themselves after they ate the apple. The first sign of shame. haven't read it lately but that's my understanding. r ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:42:06 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: "Urge For Going" Covers Question Which was recorded first, Tom Rush's or George Hamilton's version? That little descending lead guitar figure is present in both, and it also appears in Rush's "The Circle Game." My guess is Rush recorded it first, and the Hamilton arranger lifted the guitar line. On Rush's version, the lead playing reminded me a little of Jerry Garcia, on something like "Playing In The Band." Who was the guitarist? "Boston Jim" NP: Sinatra, "BSN" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:42:08 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics I always figured that that fig leaf referred to Adam, and the shame, or rather anxiety over sexuality in general. The protagonist in the song is stealing around in the dark like some kind of cassanova, but has issues with him/herself (I don't remember if the lyric is gender specific), and is hiding this both literally and figuratively in the darkness. Kind of neat, I've always liked this, too. And on a slightly related note, there is a plaster copy of Michalangelo's "David" in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. Being a nude roughly the size of King Kong, the stague boasts quite an impressive package. There is a plaster fig leaf attached to the base of the statue that was used up to a certain point to cover the David's genitals when the museum was visited by female members of the royal family. Too much of a good thing, apparently. Reuben np: Chaka Khan: Greatest Hits >From: Janene Otten >Reply-To: Janene Otten >To: "'joni@smoe.org'" >Subject: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:20:53 -0400 > >I feel extremely fortunate that I was able to see Joni perform this way, >with the orchestra, no guitar in hand. I, of course, love her guitar and >piano playing but see/hearing this incredibly gifted woman, who has >inspired >me and all of you by an outpouring of her talent over the years, perform >songs that have inspired her was a blessing. I know some of you couldn't >attend these shows for various reasons but I do hope that there will be a >tape made so that you have the chance to see it too. I can be critical, >believe me, but all the criticism in the world can't take away Joni's >spirit, her charm and grace as her smoky crooning filled the theater. >Bravo! >And it was a pleasure spending time with you, Colleen. I'm glad you made >the >trip. >I like reading the lyrics here so I will add a bitter and not-so-sweet >lyric >from a song that seems to pop into my head at the strangest times, like, >when I'm at the BAR *lol* (just kidding). "...you go down to the pick-up >station craving warmth and beauty - you settle for less than fascination - >a >few drinks later, you're not so choosy..." and the line "...clutching the >night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there something about >fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. > Peace, > Janene > >np: Bob Dylan at RFK Stadium 6/25/95 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:45:03 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The Last Time I.....(NJC - a parody) MG- great! Now you can come and do mine if you like-level it all out and concrete it over! I hate having to hoover the lawn. the bloody stuff grows so quickly. And picking up the dog do do off grass isn't always easy. I use a rubber glove and a bucket-much easier. Still at least we have our very own garden now-100 ft of it in our little patch of heaven. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:42:45 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics <> Janene, I'm sure the allusion is to the Adam & Eve story...after they tasted the forbidden fruit of knowledge, they were aware of their nakedness and covered themselves with a fig leaf. So I think what Joni is saying is that someone going to the "pickup station" is emotionally laying themselves bare and is protected only by the night. Just one more example of Joni's brilliance! Bob NP: XTC, "Stupidly Happy" (which pretty much describes me enjoying their latest release, just out yesterday!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:54:46 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: RE: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics Thanks, Reuben. That makes perfect sense. Interesting fact about the statue at the museum. I think that it is rather sad that the museum would do that but I suppose if it was at the Queens request the curator has no choice but to come up with a solution. At least it was a creative choice. =) J > I always figured that that fig leaf referred to Adam, and the > shame, or > rather anxiety over sexuality in general. The protagonist in > the song is > stealing around in the dark like some kind of cassanova, but > has issues with > him/herself (I don't remember if the lyric is gender > specific), and is > hiding this both literally and figuratively in the darkness. > Kind of neat, > I've always liked this, too. > > And on a slightly related note, there is a plaster copy of > Michalangelo's > "David" in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. Being a > nude roughly > the size of King Kong, the stague boasts quite an impressive > package. There > is a plaster fig leaf attached to the base of the statue that > was used up to > a certain point to cover the David's genitals when the museum > was visited by > female members of the royal family. Too much of a good > thing, apparently. > > Reuben > np: Chaka Khan: Greatest Hits > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:58:34 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Lyrics for your emotional life Ronda Snyder wrote: > ....nobody like Joni to soundtrack one's inner visual life...every life should have a great inner > soundtrack IMO....Joni's been mine for 30+ years now. How about the way Joni's lyrics illuminate what you're feeling? OK I'll talk about me :-) as in what I'm feeling. And even give some examples. Like hearing Joni singing "you want me to be truthful, sometimes you turn it on me like a weapon though and I need your approval" as I'm standing in the rain trying to get a cab after a job interview. And after hearing that I say to myself, oh, you did seem a little taken apart in there didn't you? That may not be the place for you. Or months ago sitting on the bus after some rather intense flirting with a very attractive guy and hearing "sometimes I get that feeling and I want to settle down with somebody, sometimes I get that strong longing and I want to settle down with somebody, but it passes like the summer, I'm a wild seed again, let the wind carry me" and I say to myself, oh, a little scared are you? Or a couple of weeks ago while starting to know someone and for days hearing Joni singing "I wanted to send it but I don't know where I stand" and I say, yes, I am a little uncertain about this new relationship. But where's my old theme song of "let the wind carry me"? Hmmm, interesting, to me anyway. Joni's music is many things, but the one I've most benefited by is the way she expresses emotions, the subtleties, the contradictions, the messiness, and before I even recognize myself how I'm feeling, I often hear her voice and then I can take it from there. She's given me a vocabulary and acceptance of emotions that I wouldn't have otherwise. So once again I say, thank you so much Joni for being with me on my life's journey. Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #278 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?