From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #276 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 276 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC music for a Rainy day (Vljc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long [Les Irvin ] BSN Tour programs for you [Brian Gross ] Re: Joni at MSG taped last night [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas" and Joni's bitterest lyrics [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long ["Kakki" ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long [Howard Motyl ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, A Smelly Turd [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long ["gene mock" ] Re: Irony Alert--- NJC, was Our Lady Of Duality [catman ] Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Rainy days [catman ] Re: French (NJC) [susan+rick ] Re: Inspired Jim & Robert Fripp (NJC) [Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: NJC music for a Rainy day (Vljc) Rhapsody in Blue Judy Garland Live at the Palace ( or Carnegie Hall, or The Palladium, or.....) Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:50:22 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (NJC) << Joseph Palis posted: >i wonder what others listen to during rainy days. >> I put on that awful P.J. Harvey cd that I still can't "give" away, and then I wait for the electricity to go off :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:01:48 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: cutting down trees far from a little blue....njc Bob Muller wrote: <<>> Just my humble opinion......Christmas brings on a mixed bag of feelings for me, sometimes melancholy, sometimes oh shite..here we go again..this is the year that my daughter goes to her Dads for the holiday.... but the one thing that consistently gives me great joy is the cutting down of my Christmas tree..it's this great tradition, one that I hold near and dear to my heart. I get my tree from a tree farm north of here, quite the adventure at that, from an environmentally, friendly, sweet family who are able to put bread on their table because of the paltry money they make allowing those of us who love to do this, to walk all over their land and choose a tree. You can see it on everyone's face: which one will it be this year. I can still smell the magnicent fragrance of spruce in my mind from this experience. I found nothing melancholy in this particular phrase because of what it evokes for me...mind you...the flip side for me would be that if I were in a space where I was not enjoying Christmas at all....(which has on occasion happened) then perhaps I would feel ah hell...look, they are going on with Christmas just the same, despite how lousy I feel....... hope that makes sense. mags who utters a prayer of thanks to the spirit of tree before cutting it down. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:58:29 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Howard, > While I protect your right as a jmdler to post on this topic, this is a > complete retread of your earlier posts. I have already explained to you > that I certianly don't mean to single you or any other lister out. I have > volunteered lots of time to the community by making tapes every week for 3 > years. > > How does it further anything to continue this tyrade? Because of problems with my email, I received your explanation before I sent my last post. So, I apologize to you for calling you on the carpet again--had I received the post pre-digest, I wouldn't have re-tread this part of the post. That said, I think the "air of superiority" issue needs to be addressed. You may not be part of the problem, but there are enough of us who responded to this in a way that shows that there is a problem. How do we fix it? I'm not sure; that, I suppose, is up for discussion. And I will say, that since sending my last post, I received yet another off-list message decrying the "superiority" issue. You wrote: "You suggested that my attitude towards people posting hate mail on Joni's OWN web site is to "Don't put them down, lift them up." Ironically, this is what I'm suggesting to them that they do when they post opinions on a multi-faceted genius on her OWN web site." When I suggested to you is that you educate the negative posters on what Joni was doing, I meant that it would be helpful for them to know what is going on in her musical career so they can make a clear judgment/judgement of her latest work/performance. What you are suggesting is that only the We Love You, Joni messages get on the site and I think that is wrong. Let's agree to disagree. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:09:33 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: Rainy Day Songs (njc) Re: Rainy Day songs GREAT THREAD, friends. I know he's been mentioned here lately so I'll say that Nick Drake records are really sublime on rainy days. I also recommend slapping on some Jeff Buckley, Richard Thompson, Billie Holiday, Nick Cave, Tom Waits, Loreena McKennitt, Ashley McIsaac, Moby, Lisa Gerrard or anything by Robert Mirabal, just to name a few. ;^) Make sure you aren't already depressed before listening to some of these. =P One last call for a meeting of the Joni faithful tonight before the show: anyone? Cheers, Janene np: BSN (just revving up) > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:45:57 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long At 11:58 AM 5/23/2000, Howard Motyl wrote: >That said, I think the "air of superiority" issue needs to be addressed. >You may not be part of the problem, but there are enough of us who >responded to this in a way that shows that there is a problem. >How do we fix it? I think we just decide to post to the list, period. The vast majority of us on this list, IMHO, certainly do not promote an "air of superiority" on purpose. Those few that do, I simply choose to ignore. Like any community, I think we have to take the good with the bad - but we never need to let it ruin the day, spoil the fun, or prevent us from posting. Contrary to the belief of some, there is no inner circle here, no seniority rules, no secret club of experienced posters who have the right to dictate what anyone else says or doesn't say. This is a free, open, unmoderated, self-regulating forum. When you subscribed, you received etiquette guidelines. Nowhere does it say "only post intelligent questions" or "memorize her entire lyrical output before posting". It does say, however: "Tolerance, tolerance, tolerance: It is not acceptable to personally insult someone publicly on the list." Post away, damn the rest. Les, who: - - is a college graduate but still lacks common sense. - - can spell "antidisestablishmentarianism" but always has trouble with "necessary". - - has a good number of negative articles about Joni on his website. - - doesn't understand a thing that Joni is saying on "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow" but loves it anyway. - - thinks "Sisotowbell Lane" is naive but loves it anyway. - - enjoys an occasional day of laying sod. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:51:37 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, longNJC > - enjoys an occasional day of laying sod. but does sod? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:52:22 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long > > Post away, damn the rest. straight form the horses mouth. thanks les. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:31:10 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long The one part of this thread that I wanted to address is the "negative reviews" on Joni's website. First of all, I think that a good majority of the reviews were positive ones. I didn't perceive any of the negative ones as "hate mail" either. I think everyone IS entitled to express their opinion whether it is on the JM.com or a newspaper article. Some of the negative reviews on Joni's website mentioned Joni's voice sounding badly, the orchestra being to loud, Joni looking awkward, or her wardrobe being horrible. Even though my opinion was totally different from theirs, that's fine with me. What I *did* find a little strange was the people who wrote on the JM.com saying that they were so disappointed in the concert because Joni didn't sing her older songs or didn't play the dulcimer. I can see someone saying this who is a Joni fan, but didn't realize what the BSN tour was about. For those who posted these views on Joni's site, I would think that they had a good idea what was in store for them. I can't imagine them getting back from the concert, turning on the computer, doing a search for Joni Mitchell, finding Wally's page and sending in a review. I would think these people would have already known about JM.com and would read it occasionally. How could these people NOT know what Joni was going to do on this tour? I do suppose it's possible, but it puzzles me. To quote a line from one reviewer: "please consider that the tour wasn't billed as "An Evening Of Joni Mitchell Looking and Sounding Exactly As You Remember Her From Thirty Years Ago and Doing The Old Songs In Familiar Arrangements To Make You Feel Comfortable And Give You A Nice Warm Fuzzy Boomer Nostalgia Moment." I hope I made a little sense in my post. (Yeah I know "VERY LITTLE SENSE") I'm at work right now and really didn't have time to think this out clearly. Have a great day everyone! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:14:44 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Inspired Jim & Robert Fripp I loved that record & I wondered the same thing. Don't know. He worked with The Roches on one of their later releases. Maybe even co-produced it. Did you know? I think The Roches are another hit of genius! They blow my mind. Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Evan > + Vanessa Thomson > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 8:33 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Inspired Jim & Robert Fripp > > > > Jim confessed: > > > Well, yeah! I'm just shocked that someone would submit SHIT like "I saw > > joni tonight and i was disappointed" to an artist's web page. > If I were jj, > > it would feel awful!!! Having to put up stuff like that when > he's in it to > > exhalt her. It reads to me, almost like hate mail. And lots > of people did > > that. These are people who, at one point or > > another, loved her! > > > > In many ways Joni has been lucky on her review pages (that I've > read) that the > complaints are so inane. Robert Fripp recently published a diary > online and the > comments he received were beyond vile. Horrific messages were > left about his > personal life and they attacked his family etc. It was beyond > criticism. As far > as I'm aware, Joni 'knows' that there are 'fans' out there who > only know her as > a folk singer and it does bother her, but in many ways, what can > you do about > it? I believe alot of these fans choose to perceive an artist a > particular way. > You know the Metallica argument, Metallica 'sold out' with the > Black album. Alot > of 'diehard' fans chose to have nothing to do with the band when > they finally > achieved chart success; as did some Soundgarden fans when they > became popular. > In many ways I don't think there's anything an artist can do. > Abit of a no win > situation! > > Also speaking of Robert Fripp, does anyone know if his song, "You > Burn Me Up I'm > A Cigarette" (off his 1979 Exposure album) has anything to do > with Joni's, "You > Turn Me On I'm A Radio"? He admitted that one of his favourite > albums ever was > "Blue". > > I asked this on Elephant Digest (The King Crimson List) but to no avail. > > Vanessa > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:13:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: BSN Tour programs for you Step right up! Get your program here! I managed to grab over 100 programs last night at Madison Square Garden. If you're interested in getting one, here's how: Start with a 9x12 inch manila envelope Fold it in half to make it 6x9 (with the sealing flap inside) Address one of the outside panels to me: Brian Gross PO Box 5126 Deptford NJ 08096-0126 Put a 33¢ stamp on it. Write "First Class Mail" on the other outside panel Unfold the envelope, and on the 6x9 surface opposite the one with the sealing flap, address it to yourself and put another 33¢ stamp on it. Put your own address as the return address. Refold the envelope so that *MY* address is exposed. Do *NOT* seal the flap. Put a strip of scotch tape on each of the 3 edges to hold it closed. Drop it in the mail and I'll put a program in it and mail it back out to you. For those of you outside the USA, I'm not sure how we're going to do this. I'm open to suggestions (ha - what an understatement that is!) I'll keep filling envelopes as they arrive until they're all gone. SIQUOMB, ISN'T SHE? Brian ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:53:41 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni at MSG taped last night I'm surprised his equipment wasn't taken. Most security at venues would have done that. NP-Garcia/Grissman-Louis Collins At 10:00 AM -0400 5/23/00, Gerald Notaro (LIB) wrote: >It was probably simon. > >Jerry 8-) > >On Tue, 23 May 2000 SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > >> I attended Joni's show at MSG last night and noticed that they >>were recording >> the event. There was a microphone directly in front of my seat and just >> before the show, one of the ushers told the person whose chair the >>microphone >> was attached to that he should be mindful of the microphone, as they were >> recording. I don't know if this is something that is routinely done, but >> thought that everyone would be interested to know this. The show was, IMHO, >> simply wonderful. In the audience were Diana Krall, Bette Midler, and Judy >> Collins, along with lots and lots of fans. >> - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:53:01 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas" and Joni's bitterest lyrics For bitter Joni lyrics, "The Magdalene Laundries" immediately came to mind: Singing of nuns as "bloodless brides of Jesus," she says: They wilt the grass they walk upon They leech the light out of a room And also from the same song: Peg O'Connell died today. She was a cheeky girl, A flirt. They just stuffed her in a hole! Joni... so bitter and so sweet! -- Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:56:29 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) Edie Brickell and New Bohemians - Ghost Of A Dog THOSL Hejira And sometimes NPR NP-Garcia/Grissman-Guitar Jam >>Joseph Palis posted: >> >i wonder what others listen to during rainy days. - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:58:29 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long Howard wrote: > I understand that this is what you were doing, but whether or not that was clear, it is a small jump to >other people on the list. Colin and I were not the only people to pick up on this. Others sent me >messages privately. Here's one: "Your points are very valid. I could also play this game and mention private messages that I have received but I won't because it further feeds the "us vs. them" mentality - a dynamic I have always found distressful here when it rears it's ugly head. Howard, your series of posts have now caused me to become physically ill. I wonder if you and those supporting you stomped all over Jim's original heartfelt essay just to have the chance to get at me. I feel horrible for Jim that he now has to defend himself against allegations that are false and possibly provoked by something I did. And I feel horrible that this discussion comes at a time when we all should be reveling in the excitement of Joni's shows and reviews. Even though I know you will have more to say, this will be my last post on the subject. You want to call me an elitist? Fine, whatever. Obviously, my personal contributions, assistance and sacrifices of time to many people on this list over the past three years means nothing. I could recite them in my defense, but that would also probably make me seem to putting on an "air of superiority" in some eyes. Since you keep referring back to it, I did want to clarify my original discussion with Jim about the For The Roses songs Joni is performing during the current tour. I can see now that I was probably wrong in assuming that other readers would understand where I was coming from and should have clarified it better, but it was late and I was tired. That album is very personally important in my life for reasons I won't go into here, but I am passionate about it. From articles and interviews with Joni that can be found on the JMDL website, she has discussed the lyrics on Ludwig's Tune and For The Roses. If you don't know it from reading the lyrics, she affirms that those lyrics refer to her disillusionment with the music business and related personal upheaval she was going through at the time. She was going through the first of her many crises, deciding whether or not to quit the business. The lyrics are all about the downside of fame and art and people who want you to be something you don't feel and so on. They are about those who don't "get" who you are as an artist, or, by extension, as an individual. So when I saw some of the posts on JM.com getting upset with her for not playing her oldies (also, some of the other reviews mentioned how some people in the audiences were heckling her to play the oldies) and also knocking her orchestration of some of the old songs, I suddenly was struck by the incredible irony of it all. To me, it was like she may have somehow known in advance that this would happen and so she deliberately chose to finish off the show with the two songs that addressed the whole phenomenom of those who don't "get" her. And it is apparent from the reviews that indeed, some people did not "get" it. *This* is where I was primarily coming from the other night. Jim's post struck a chord with me and I wanted to discuss more about that particular lightbulb that had come on in my head. Plus, it selfishly gave me yet another opportunity to rant a bit once again about my favorite Joni album. I hope this further clarifies where I was coming from but if not, there's not much more I can say. Finally, I have gotten both overy and covert criticism a number of times in the past for my "eloquent" writing style. I have even been told by some people that I should "dummy it down" because it pisses people off. But when I have tried to dummy down, I have been quickly corrected, so I can't win. I truly can't help how I write. I am overly verbal - it's just the way the circuits are connected in my brain. On the other hand, "when it comes to mathematics, I have static in the attic", as Joni would say. Like I said, I don't have anything else to add about all this. I'm drained and I also think it time to move on. I apologize to any whom I have offended. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:09:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: rainy day joni My favorites for rainy spring days are Marcie window shopping in the rain, and "oil on the puddles in taffeta patterns that run down the drain, in colored arrangements that Michael will change with a stick that he's found." For snow, it has to be "the bolts of lace waltzing on a ballroom (bridal) girl" and the "six foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn." For hot summer sun, turn-it-up and roll-down-the-windows for "Shiny Toys." And of course the Latin drum, and the hissing ... For early darkness and autumnal chill, the geese in chevron flight, and the warm chords of "Tiger Bones." And right now, in the budding warmth of late May, especially when it's warm enough to linger outside just after dusk on the cooling grass, watching the stars come out, the "crocuses to bring to school tomorrow." Nickel Chief ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:12:51 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------0B55E2AFCB0139394D97DCD6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > The one part of this thread that I wanted to address is the "negative > reviews" on Joni's website. First of all, I think that a good majority of the > reviews were positive ones. I didn't perceive any of the negative ones as > "hate mail" either. I think everyone IS entitled to express their opinion > whether it is on the JM.com or a newspaper article > For those > who posted these views on Joni's site, I would think that they had a good > idea what was in store for them. I can't imagine them getting back from the > concert, turning on the computer, doing a search for Joni Mitchell, finding > Wally's page and sending in a review. I would think these people would have > already known about JM.com and would read it occasionally. How could these > people NOT know what Joni was going to do on this tour? I do suppose it's > possible, but it puzzles me. > > I hope I made a little sense in my post. (Yeah I know "VERY LITTLE SENSE") > I'm at work right now and really didn't have time to think this out clearly. > > Made perfect sense to me. You are a voice of reason in our quarrel of degrees. Thanks. - --------------0B55E2AFCB0139394D97DCD6 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;3 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------0B55E2AFCB0139394D97DCD6-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:53:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Our Lady Of Duality, njc how come four of my favorite people in the world -- KAKKI, COLIN, HOWARD, JIM -- can be at such odds with one another???? as i am totally self-referent thus never wrong about the people i love, the only explanation i can find is that this is a bad case of static. and just you wait until i tell you about my educational background!!! wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:58:05 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Irony Alert--- NJC, was Our Lady Of Duality Cheer up Kakki! I used to think that we each have shortcomings and weaknesses to deal with, as a normal part of life. This week I've learned on the List that it's my fault that JMDLers (whom I have never met) are "made to feel insecure" about posting and that it's my fault. This was a revelation for me. Kinda hard to take at first, but then I realized that my clinical depression isn't a burden that I must carry, it's somebody ELSE'S fault. I'm not sure how you actually PICK someone to blame yet but I'm sure all will be revealed in time. I'll give you another example. My mother isn't senile because she's very worn out with old age, and alcoholism. It's my fault because I caused her to feel old. It's kinda fun once you get the hang of it. Try it and see if you like it! Tolerance, tolerance, tol Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati JMDLers who 'get it' will remember that this was my tag line for a looooong time. Remember? It's in the archives. If it's my fault that you don't know how to use the archive, just tell me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:01:48 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, njc Wally, For God's sake don't you get it? It doesn't matter what your education actually IS. It matters how your perceived education causes others to FEEL. I'm afraid we're going to have to work with you a little bit. Tolerance, tolerance, tol Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:40:47 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 > Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:33:46 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:30:31 PDT > From: "Reuben Bell" > Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) > > My three favorite rainy day pics are: > David Sylvian - Secrets of the Beehive > Cocteau Twins - Blue Bell Knoll > Joni's Hejira > (and ok one more) > Everything But The Girl - Worldwide My faves are: Cocteau Twins - Four Calendar Cafe Fleetwood Mac - Future Games Giles Reaves - Sea of Glass Enya - Shepherd Moons mike > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:19:06 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, A Smelly Turd i will say that i would to like see us let this one go now. can't we all just breath tonight a little. drink a martini, or a beer or a tonic or what ever else we do to relax and come in tomorrow and start again. i told my humbling failure story to try and get us off the debate. i thought jim's post was a fine one and i never took insult to it. and i failed at school once. and i'm smart enough to understand both sides of the debate. but jim's heart was not malicious. i dont think he is capable of malicious. but i do like his spunk this afternoon. howard, it was not meant the way it sounded to you. but it's time to stop it now. please. let's drop this thread like a smelly turd. it will only put stink on anyone who touches it from this point on. pat np. a heated fire on the inside, wanting to drink a case of someone tonight at the show. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:39:07 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long Egads!!! i thought this thread would die out, but it seems to have a life of it's own. I emailed Jim and told him how I thought his original post was "great and right on." He and Kakki never had any intentions of insulting anybody. I know that inferences were made, that higher education was needed to appreciate Joni. Rightly so, now I'm making a difference between "higher formal education" and "higher education." Higher formal education would be a college degree, higher education is a sense of sociology, philosophy, fine arts, literature, physics and what have you. In other words, "life experiences." Sorta like "the agony of defeat and ecstasy of victory", to win and lose in life and love. Joni writes about these things better than anybody else. On top of that she combines it with great music. Awesome!! So no, I don't feel insulted, I don't feel like I'm a minority, because I know what Jim meant to say. This list is really great! We always don't agree/disagree on all things Joni. But we talk about Joni, because it's like ---------like Joni is part of us, and we're part of Joni. As far as people who go to her concerts to hear her sing old songs, that's okay. It's like going to class reunions. You turn back the clock and remember things as they were. But we all change, Joni changed, I've changed, we all have changed----------and I enjoy watching and listening the changes Joni has gone through. "What a long strange trip it's been," So I don't mind if Joni doesn't play her old songs and people shouldn't expect her to do so either. I don't like going to class reunions, going through the yearbook is enough for me. She's an artist. If you can't do it from the heart, then don't do it at all. "Elitism" on this list. No way, I just wish I could write as good as you guys. Hey!Forever Joni!!!!! Take Care gene ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:46:40 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: A Joni Day in London Town/Redux UKers I spoke too soon. In my continuing discussions with JM mgmt about the possibilties of the company I work for shooting the BSN concert next week, I got more information about JM in London. The producers of the ITV show, South Bank, are interested in airing a taped BSN concert. There are no plans for her to perform in England, at this point. The possibility exists but "she doesn't like to do live shows and she doesn't like to travel". I'm sorry for getting your hopes up. When he said South Bank yesterday, I had just read a big article about South Bank in the NY Times and the new Tate over there and thought she would perform there. For Joni fans in Japan, TV folks there are talking about the taped concert for broadcast also. Finally, I was told that there is a possibility--and, right now, this possibility is very, very slight--that Joni may tour with BSN again in the fall. There have been offers but nothing, I repeat, nothing has been set, there have been no deals made, it is only a little glint of a possibility. And it is the smallest possiblity imaginable. Howard M. If the computer crap is still on the end of this message, I'm sorry. I have tried to turn one part of it off . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:04:53 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas" (SJC) In a message dated 05/23/2000 6:17:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bobm@kayaker.com writes: << Any other contenders for Joni's bitterest lyric? >> I think my favorite is: ...All romantics meet the same fate someday, cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe...(if I recall correctly) Still waiting to meet that fate. No regrets, Coyote (Richard) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:24:58 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long In a message dated 05/23/2000 11:48:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << It does say, however: "Tolerance, tolerance, tolerance: It is not acceptable to personally insult someone publicly on the list." Post away, damn the rest. >> Finally, the ultimate authority comes in and (hopefully) saves the day! No regrets, Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:32:58 -0400 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: Re: Covers Comments Jason, Here is a cross-section which was torture to pick from such a barrel of blossems as Joni's got. Torture I tell ya! Cactus Tree JM 1968 The Gallery CLDS 1969 The Priest LOC 1970 This Flight Tonight BLUE 1971 Banquet FTR 1972 For The Roses " Let The Wind Carry Me " Court & Spark CAS 1974 Just Like This Train CAS 1974 Shades Of Scarlett Conquering HOSL 1975 Sweet Bird HOSL 1975 Hejira HJR 1976 Song For Sharon " Jericho DJWD 1977 Otis & Marlena DJWD Chinese Cafe WTRF 1982 Slouching Toward Bethlehem NRH 1991 Come In From The Cold " Turbulent Indigo TI 1994 Borderline " Sire Of Sorrow " Man From Mars TTT No Apologies " Taming The Tiger " She stunns me! Peg/VT NP No Apologies / TTT "Ohoh you tired watcher" - Sire Of Sorrow and "Ohoh my my" - Crazy Cries Of Love Are identical in melody & in chord. I love that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:42:10 -0000 From: "alan larson" Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) How about Rainy Day Man off of JT's titleless album, where he is laying horizontal on the cover in his suspenders. Or Gordon Lightfoot's Looking at the Rain. Or my favorite.... it was raining hard in Frisco, i needed one more fare to make my night... Taxi by Harry Chapin Oops, almost forgot Rainy Night in Georgia.... Brooks Benton I believe. I love that song. "now rainy day man he don't need sunshine don't need no rainbows he don't need good times gray days rollin' then you'll see him i say empty feeling lord how you need him all those noble thoughts they don't belong and you can't hide the truth with a happy song and since i knew where you stood all along just call on your rainy day man" alan in ames who has always loved the less acclaimed songs, diamonds in the rough maybe - ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Domyancich To: Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 8:56 PM Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) > Edie Brickell and New Bohemians - Ghost Of A Dog > THOSL > Hejira > And sometimes NPR > > NP-Garcia/Grissman-Guitar Jam > > >>Joseph Palis posted: > >> >i wonder what others listen to during rainy days. > -- > Mark Domyancich > Harpua@revealed.net > tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:45:33 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Irony Alert--- NJC, was Our Lady Of Duality This thread died, or at least i thought it had. this kind of childish crap just keeps it going. You wrote what you wrote and apologised for the way it was written and said you didn't mean what you wrote. This sort of nonsnese makes it doubtful that you meant it. Personally, I think any benefit of the doubt afforded what you wrote was wasted. No one was blaming you or Kakki for anyone's feelings, just that you appeared very arrogant in what you wrote. You explained what you meant and that is it. If you are so keen on personal responsibilty perhaps you should take it for what you actuaklly wrote, regardless of what you meant. Niether my post on the subject nor Howards were ceondescending or rude. We did not whine about ill we felt and try the poor me tack nor did we take the piss as you are now doing. So typical of people to do this. you write something that people find offesive, it is complained about, you duck and dive, back track and then start doing exactly the same thing again by this sort of nonsense. And yes, I thought very carefully about this and its tone before I hit send. If it sounds angry it is supposed to. Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > Cheer up Kakki! > > I used to think that we each have shortcomings and weaknesses to deal with, > as a normal part of life. > > This week I've learned on the List that it's my fault that JMDLers (whom I > have never met) are "made to feel insecure" about posting and that it's my > fault. > > This was a revelation for me. Kinda hard to take at first, but then I > realized that my clinical depression isn't a burden that I must carry, it's > somebody ELSE'S fault. > > I'm not sure how you actually PICK someone to blame yet but I'm sure all > will be revealed in time. I'll give you another example. My mother isn't > senile because she's very worn out with old age, and alcoholism. It's my > fault because I caused her to feel old. It's kinda fun once you get the > hang of it. Try it and see if you like it! > > Tolerance, tolerance, tol > Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati > > JMDLers who 'get it' will remember that this was my tag line for a looooong > time. Remember? It's in the archives. If it's my fault that you don't > know how to use the archive, just tell me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:46:21 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 In a message dated 5/23/00 6:20:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, m_hicks@aiken.k12.sc.us writes: << > My three favorite rainy day pics are: > David Sylvian - Secrets of the Beehive > Cocteau Twins - Blue Bell Knoll > Joni's Hejira > (and ok one more) > Everything But The Girl - Worldwide My faves are: Cocteau Twins - Four Calendar Cafe Fleetwood Mac - Future Games Giles Reaves - Sea of Glass Enya - Shepherd Moons mike >> How could anyone leave Jimi's Electric Ladyland off such a list? It is the ultimate rainy day album. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:52:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 > How could anyone leave Jimi's Electric Ladyland off such a list? very easily-especially if you have no idea who jimi or Electric LadyLand is :-)(tho now I think maybe you mean hendrix and if so I'll save that for Hell) It is the > ultimate rainy day album. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:53:37 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) In a message dated 5/23/00 7:45:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alarson@isunet.net writes: << How about Rainy Day Man off of JT's titleless album, where he is laying horizontal on the cover in his suspenders. Or Gordon Lightfoot's Looking at the Rain. Or my favorite.... it was raining hard in Frisco, i needed one more fare to make my night... Taxi by Harry Chapin Oops, almost forgot Rainy Night in Georgia.... Brooks Benton I believe. I love that song. >> I made a 90-minute tape of rain songs about 15 years ago -- Gordon Lightfoot's "Rainy day People," Randy Newman's "I Think It's Going to Rain Today," Neil Young's "Like a Hurricane," Van Morrison's "Full Force Gale," The Beatles "Rain," of course, and a few others, including several selections of the ultimate rainy day album, Jimi Hendrix' "Electric Ladyland." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:58:53 +0100 From: catman Subject: Rainy days Don't know about rainy days but on days I feel the need to unwind I listen to; Hejira-very relaxing. Don't usually go for vocals to unwind but this album sounds the same all the way thru and has resting feel to it. I also like Enya for the same reason. Enigma or something by Jean Michel Jarre. I have nothing particular for rainy days as they feel the same as any other day-cept they are more work when one has 7 hairy dogs! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:00:02 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: French (NJC) > Bob wrote: > >> And it would be the Coup de Gras to see that chestnut show up on Joni's >> Christmas record! and Steve Dulson replied: > I think Bob has been eating too much pate' de foie gras - I think he means > coup de grace. I don't know Steve, from the way some people are reacting to that song it sounds to me like being hit by a big blob of fat would be a fitting description;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:06:53 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: Inspired Jim & Robert Fripp (NJC) Peg Eves wrote: > I loved that record & I wondered the same thing. Don't know. He worked with > The Roches on one of their later releases. Maybe even co-produced it. Did > you know? I think The Roches are another hit of genius! They blow my mind. > > Peg > Hello, No I didn't know this, my husband is more the King Crimson/Robert Fripp fan than myself but out of most of the bands he listens to I like them the best! He listens to Yes, Rush, Dream Theater, Genesis etc but I just don't like the 'prog' sound... with Yes it's their vocalist and the vocals as well as the synth sounds. Rush, well you either love Geddy Lee's voice ot hate it and I despise it! I find Robert Fripp himself quite fascinating... and one last comment on Joni reviews, both my husband and I get somewhat 'annoyed' when fans complain about concerts, because we'd do anything to be able to see these artists live and more than likely will never get the opportunity. Oh well, at least I do get to se ben harper next month... and Babba the abba cover band :-) Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:16:16 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: A Gay Man's Time in Chicago Grabbing Joni Tickets (NJC) Very Long I wasn't going to post this. It was actually written as an offlist email to a few pals. But, now I felt maybe it was time for a little levity on the list. For the past week, I have been on a two-part business trip, first Houston, then directly to Chicago. Tonight is my last night in this wonderful city. Houston (another favorite city of mine) was kinda weird for me because Joni popped up to become a priority and distraction. Here goes the post: Phyllis posted one day last week that on her return flight from PazFest she had to stop in Chicago for a plane change. Guess what? Joni is performing in Chicago the night Phyllis' plane gets there. She decided to stay over and see the concert. Got me to thinking.... See, I am supposed to be meeting with a guy from the Gas Research Institute in Chicago in June. I called him and asked if we could meet the first thing in the morning the 31st. He said sure and since it's only a two hour meeting, he'll get it all set up. Guess what? I get to go to Chicago on the 30th and see Joni too! Problem though. We didn't have any tickets to the show. So Phyllis and I begin the furious routine of emailing and phoning to try to get tickets. We discovered some on eBay, 12th row center. So we made our bid and bit our nails for two days. We got the tickets at the opening bid amount, which was only $15 over face value each. I discovered that the theater she will be at is in Rosemont, which is very near O'Hare airport, not in downtown Chicago. I found us a room at the Holiday Inn right next door to the theater. This has worked out so perfectly. We can shuttle to the Holiday Inn from the airport and walk to the concert. So, now how do we get the tickets from the guy on eBay? We called him TicketMeister. He lives in Chicago, so Phyllis told TicketMeister (TM) I would gladly go pick them up, since I am in town on business. We made contact and TM told me he lives next to Wrigley Field, where I later found out they play baseball. We agreed to meet on Saturday at 1:30PM. He told me how to get to the house, saying it was very distinctive, having a Big Budweiser sign on the roof. I asked for the complete address and he said -- "man, it's the Budweiser House. Everyone knows it." So I hoped I'd find it. He says we'll do the ticket deal then go to his attic to watch the game, have some brew, and get to know each other. Most ticket brokers I have met in the past aren't that friendly, but Chicago is a very friendly city. So. I write the following to Phyllis: >>My first question, Phyllis. Would this be a baseball game? I know nothing about professional sports. Hey, but to get these tickets, I'll paint my face green, wear a chicken hat, scream like a stuck pig and be some kind of a mascot. So you know where I will be. If you don't hear from me by 6PM, call the police! I may be sold into slavery. God, I hope it doesn't turn into a replay of that scene from Deliverance. That's where I draw the Joni line.>> Naturally, after all this friendliness, there was a point of time when we thought TicketMeister might be gay. His *partner* called me in one of our telephone exchanges. Partner? So Phyllis writes me: <> And I replied to her: >>OK, here's a little trade secret. It's called gaydar. In the case of the TicketMeister and his partner, mine clearly said no. But, mine has also clearly been off kilter, many a time. Embarrassingly so, which is another unpublishable, but hysterical story to be saved for Chicago. What I can tell you is any gay man that has a huge Welcome Budweiser Fans banner on his house, as TM claims to have, would immediately have his Friend of Dorothy card and diploma revoked and without haste, be exported to Saudi Arabia to be disposed of quickly.<< Nervously, I board the L to the Addison stop at Wrigley Field and, after disembarking from the train, begin looking for the streets TM described. I hadn't been to that part of the city before, and what a neighborhood directly surrounding the Wrigley Field I discovered! It is literally in a neighborhood of homes above bars and restaurants and retail shops. All the immediately adjacent homes have rooftop bleachers to enable residents and friends to watch the games for free. And it was like Mardi Gras on the streets. The people without tickets or rooftop privileges were in the streets, some in baseball outfits, drinking beer, playing catch, pretending to be superstars. Some were barbecuing on the sidewalks watching the game on portable TV. It was a wild atmosphere. Very festive! Well, I found the Budweiser house easily. Just one glitch, I forgot his name, since we had only been calling him the TicketMeister. Quick call to Phyllis who set me straight. Unlike his neighbors, TM's rooftop bleachers were modest. It is literally an attic with the front wall kinda knocked out and rustically finished with 2x4s, open to the elements. I knocked at the front door and no one was around. I could hear the boys up in the attic, but they couldn't hear me. I called TM on his cell, he said he wasn't there, but was still selling Cub tickets and would be there at 2:15. It was 1:10 when I arrived. He said, go upstairs and have a brew with the boys. I decided to wait in the backyard, smoking nervously. I had gotten a look at the boys, and it did seem like they were extras in Deliverance. As I said, Wrigley Field is right in a neighborhood with sidewalks right against the walls of the bleachers. While sitting and smoking, I noticed this smallish, drunk, man yelling up to the bleachers from the sidewalk for the sports fans to throw him money in his old Coke cup. It was like a game to see if they could land the money in the cup from 40 feet above. Let's just say, the catcher of these funds was not very agile in his state of inebriation and would run backward into the street and oncoming traffic to catch the quarters. He was almost hit twice. The crowds laughed and laughed. Me, more nervous smoking. TM finally arrives with four very heavy gold chains circling his large, don't f***k with me fella, neck. "Now where are those tickets?" he asks after taking me up to the attic and putting a Mickey's Big Mouth in my hand. A frantic household search of some duration ensues, with several of TM's beer guzzling goons assisting. During the search, I was told to stay in the attic. Let me tell you, this attic, still overflowing with geezers, was all about testosterone, hops, and Brut. I've never felt more homosexual. TM's *partner* appears with the misplaced tickets in an envelope marked Coyote and Phyllis. "No way are they gay brethren," I think to myself. "No way." No more TM. It seems he had to run downtown to the Sheraton to deliver tickets for some evening show. TM is a mover and shaker. The *partner* said, "Here have a brew and some snacks. Enjoy the game. We are going to barbecue later." Realizing they are very nice guys, yet unconvinced that it would not be me on the spit, I made excuses and split, tickets in hand. Hopped back on the L for the first stop back toward downtown, which is the Belmont stop, or Boystown. What a relief, back with my people, I thought. Found a Mailboxes, Etc. and Phyllis' ticket was on its way to Aunt Molly's in New Orleans. What a guy won't do for Joni tickets. No regrets, Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #276 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?