From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #273 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 273 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL New York Concert Financial Aid [PFallo@aol.com] 8th Row! BSN Tour Tix ["Lori R. Fye" ] John's Thoughts on Joni [catman ] May 25th Get together (NJC) [Loren Carter ] NJC Matrimony [Scott Price ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: These are the days of miracle and wonder (NJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: These are the days of miracle and wonder (NJC) ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Atlanta Concert, Wallace's trumpet, Klein, etc.. [w evans ] Re: Atlanta Concert, Wallace's trumpet, Klein, etc.. ["Jim L'Hommedieu" <] elitists? NJC [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long [Deb Messling ] Re: Atlanta Concert, Wallace's trumpet, Klein, etc.. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long [Bounced Message ] MPP [dave fairall / beth miller ] Re: These are the days of miracle and wonder (NJC) [guitarzan@saber.net] DOG EAT DOG [dave fairall / beth miller ] A Joni Day is Londontown [Howard Motyl ] Re: Our Lady of Duality . . . [Catherine Turley ] New York May 22, 2000 [PPeterson4@aol.com] David at the Chealsea NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long ["Kakki" ] spelling bee SJC [Howard Motyl ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:25:34 EDT From: PFallo@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL New York Concert Financial Aid PPeterson4@aol.com writes: >> 3. I remember when I had to sneak through the fire door at Radio City Music Hall to see Joni in ''73. This is in honor of the person who opened the door for me and let me in. << wow, i wonder if we got in through the same door at the same time. the same thing happened to my two friends and i at that show. it was a miracle like the parting of the seas. suddenly a door opened and we were in the show. we had gotten shut out of tickets for that show and were trying to get in anyway we could. tickets on the street were scarce. we were trying to bribe one of the ticket takers at the door to let us in, when jack nicholson and angelica huston come strolling in and jack says to the ticket taker, "it's ok if james, my driver comes in." we're saying to the ticket taker, you're going to let james, who probably doesn't even know who joni mitchell is in and not us. we're yelling after nicholson , "jack, how 'bout us!" anyway, having failed at our attempts, we go to listen to the show, which is just beginning at one of the side doors to radio city, when suddenly the door opens and about a dozen of us go streaming in. we sat on the floor in the center aisle. no one bothered us. 'twas an incredible show. anyway, i wanted to commend you on your incredibly, astoundingly kind offer of tickets to tonight's show. talk about giving something back! i'm sure you'll be making a couple of people as happy as we were that magical evening when someone opened the door for us. don't think i can make judy's chelsea, but i hope to meet and see many of you at the show tonight. less than 6 hrs. to joni time. can't wait. phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:28:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: 8th Row! BSN Tour Tix I am in possession of one extra pair of tickets for Joni's 5/25 show at Merriweather Post Pavilion near Columbia, Maryland. Right Center, Row H (8th row!), Seats 34 and 36. (These are the tickets that Marian is unable to use due to the cancellation of her trip.) Anyone interested??? Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:39:59 +0100 From: catman Subject: John's Thoughts on Joni I read the posts about Joni and those who don't get her to my partner John. He has two degrees and a Doctorate in Philosophy. He has written and had published several books. he is also classicly trained musically and a bass opera singer. In the 19 years we have been together, he has listened to a lot of Joni! This is what he said about this thread and about Joni: Firstly,that no amount of intellectualising about music will change an opinion about it from I don't like to I like it. Secondly, he says that joni is extremely clever in her use of words and oustanding in her musical abilities. yet he does not like the end result. he appreciates her talent and her skill but feels no desire to listen to her over and over as I do. As for her voice, well i won't print out what he said!!! I disagree with him on that. ------------------------------ Date: 22 May 00 19:03:48 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: May 25th Get together (NJC) To all of us Meriweather Post Pavillion concert goers on this coming Thursday, I would like to meet some of the fellow DC listers before the concert, but all that I've heard is to let everyone know what's been planned. No one has offered any preferences. So, folks, now's the time to come to some decisions. If there are none, I will make arrangements for my wife and I, then let you all know where we will be. If you want to join us, you'll be welcomed. If there's to be a group, I need to know some druthers and numbers. Tomorrow night I'll be finalizing arrangements for Lucy and me, if there are to be more than the two of us, please let me know. I live in Laurel, Maryland, about 25 minutes from the concert site, and I plan to make an afternoon of it, getting to Columbia early to beat the rush. And, this year I will be purchasing the signed lithograph rather than scrambling around searching for it as a Christmas present (in case you all remember what brought me here in the first place long ago). So, please let me know and we can throw something together or Thursday afternoon or evening). Loren..... P.S...Marian, did you get your personal shopper for T-shirts and lithos? NP...Beatrice Potter's Peter Rabbit stories for my son. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:26:01 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: NJC Matrimony At 12:50 AM 5/22/00 -0400, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >Hi Kakki, >Uhmmm, since I'm suddenly available and all.... will you marry me? :) Jimbo, Years ago on the Joni list I proclaimed my mad desire to ask Emmylou Harris for her hand in marriage. :-) I was quickly informed that Brad Fors and my friend Mark in Seattle had "first dibs" and I was duly relegated to a place further back in the (long) line. :-( Therefore, I feel compelled to tell you that in this JMDL tradition you must go to the back of the line of those who have previously asked Kakki to marry us. Sorry! ;-) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:27:24 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long Wow! I apologize for sounding so eletiest or how ever you spell the damn word. What I mean was not what i said. What i said was you "have" to have all this education to understand.... And what Kakki understood i meant was "Joni engages US at this level..." When I read what I wrote I completely underztand how eletist i look to you guys. I'm sorry. I was n't as clear as i usaully am and always try to be. I'm not saying that you guys can't 'get' joni because you don't have college eduations. as it turns out, i don't have one either! Oh, I finished the 2 year degree but for the life of me, i can't finish the 4 year one. i've been a permanent partime student for about 12 years! so, no, i;m not an eletist. I apologize to you Colin, and to you, Howard and to the dozens of JMDLers who may have felt the same insult but didn't hav the time to reply. Actually Howard, Colin, Joni and I are all not college graduates. Let anyone have any doubts, consider that I'm the guy who responded to juliana about the Tribute tape request. Remember her? She kept posting the request and someone called it "Twilight Zone" stuff. Her blank tape is in MY kitchen right now because I took the time to talk to her and offered to make the tape for her. Okay? She sent me a too-short tape so i'm gonna give a longer tape to hold the complete Tribute at my own expense. i alwasy do this stuff for jmdlers (though i usually don't brag about it) and i don't ask for proof of education first. Okay? All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:09:12 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long Now that Jim wrote this I can say Jim sent me a gracious mail more or less saying the same thing this morning. i didn't mention it as i wasn't sure i could as it was a private post. thanks Jim. Just want to clear up something I said about not really relishing the idea of being a Jonifest. I know I would meet some really good people,as I know some e friends of mine have atteneded. However, from posts I have read, i still feel i would feel out of it, not least because of my own shyness(yes I know that is hard to believe but is true) but also because some posters manage to make some of us feel totally thick. It isn't about resenting a persons education etc it is about resenting being spoken down to. Snobbery in other words. Intellecual snobbery is just as bad as any other sort. i mean as a really good example, all the pompous, arrogant protestations some people threw my way because I dared to say I thought Joni's voice couldn't handle the standards album! I still think that. Doesn't make me the Wicked Witch of The West or whatever. Just means that i can love without blinkers. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:13:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Matrimony I'd love to get married to a woman-as long as she was very rich, had no relatives,and was very old with a bad heart. But apart from that, MG has already agreed to be my wife when i am widowed and if she is too by then. We will be able to live comfortably as I have seen the figures from the company regarding what will come my way when John pegs it. Which reminds me I must remember to go to library and get a book on poisons and stuff.... Scott Price wrote: > > At 12:50 AM 5/22/00 -0400, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > >Hi Kakki, > >Uhmmm, since I'm suddenly available and all.... will you marry me? :) > > Jimbo, > > Years ago on the Joni list I proclaimed my mad desire to ask Emmylou Harris > for her hand in marriage. :-) I was quickly informed that Brad Fors and my > friend Mark in Seattle had "first dibs" and I was duly relegated to a place > further back in the (long) line. :-( > > Therefore, I feel compelled to tell you that in this JMDL tradition you > must go to the back of the line of those who have previously asked Kakki to > marry us. Sorry! ;-) > > Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:16:06 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: These are the days of miracle and wonder (NJC) Hell asked what song are these lyrics from? Here's a clue: Elvis didn't write the song ;-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:32:30 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: Inspired Jim & Robert Fripp Jim confessed: > Well, yeah! I'm just shocked that someone would submit SHIT like "I saw > joni tonight and i was disappointed" to an artist's web page. If I were jj, > it would feel awful!!! Having to put up stuff like that when he's in it to > exhalt her. It reads to me, almost like hate mail. And lots of people did > that. These are people who, at one point or > another, loved her! > In many ways Joni has been lucky on her review pages (that I've read) that the complaints are so inane. Robert Fripp recently published a diary online and the comments he received were beyond vile. Horrific messages were left about his personal life and they attacked his family etc. It was beyond criticism. As far as I'm aware, Joni 'knows' that there are 'fans' out there who only know her as a folk singer and it does bother her, but in many ways, what can you do about it? I believe alot of these fans choose to perceive an artist a particular way. You know the Metallica argument, Metallica 'sold out' with the Black album. Alot of 'diehard' fans chose to have nothing to do with the band when they finally achieved chart success; as did some Soundgarden fans when they became popular. In many ways I don't think there's anything an artist can do. Abit of a no win situation! Also speaking of Robert Fripp, does anyone know if his song, "You Burn Me Up I'm A Cigarette" (off his 1979 Exposure album) has anything to do with Joni's, "You Turn Me On I'm A Radio"? He admitted that one of his favourite albums ever was "Blue". I asked this on Elephant Digest (The King Crimson List) but to no avail. Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:34:07 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: NJC Matrimony Scott, Thanks for informing me about the tradition of JMDL proposals of marriage. Even if I was first in line, Kakki would turn me down. I couldn't keep up with her. Sadly, she's way out of my league. :) I'm a home body and hate traffic. I'd explode in LA and she'd be bored in Cincinnati. Hi Kakki! Jim L'Hommedieu From: "Scott Price" Subject: NJC Matrimony > Therefore, I feel compelled to tell you that in this JMDL tradition you > must go to the back of the line of those who have previously asked Kakki to > marry us. Sorry! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:34:16 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long In a message dated 5/22/00 7:29:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << Oh, I finished the 2 year degree but for the life of me, i can't finish the 4 year one. i've been a permanent partime student for about 12 years! >> well, i first went to college in 1979. i majored in business. and my first semester i earned a gpa of 1.1 out of 4. and that got me on this thing called 'academic probation.' then the next semester, as if if the first were not enought, i earned a .9 out of 4. and unfortunately, it was not a movie like animal house. it was reality, and my parents were pretty damn pissed. and then i got this really nice letter from the school advising me that it would be in all our interests if i took a year off to find myself. and i always felt it was not myself that was the problem...it was the calculus. so then i went to work for a landscaper and they brought in this tractor trailer load of sod to this house and the driver dropped the skids with a crane and left. and the guy i worked for came up in his truck and said, hey pat,,,green side up, brown side down. and then he drove off lighting a cigarette. and all this time i kept listening to ladies of the canyon, about the clarinet player and the priest. and i imagined a better world with out calculus or sod. and here i am 21 years later, still listening to ladies of the canyon. still cringing when i hear "differential equation." and i still look away from skids of sod. ....hey pat, green side up, brown side down.....hey joe, go fuck yourself. p. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:42:32 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: These are the days of miracle and wonder (NJC) Hell- Hint: I believe these are the days of lasers in the jungle- lasers in the jungle somewhere. Staccato signals of constant information. A loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires. And baby, These are the days of miracle and wonder. From: "Alan Lorimer" > Here's a clue: Elvis didn't write the song ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:47:03 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #272 (NJC) > Jim wrote: > > > it's no wonder most folks don't get it. you have to have a college level > education that includes >_proficiency_ in lit and philosophy and politics > and sociology. And that's just the words. we haven't >even touched on the > _musical_ demands that she puts on us! > > This is a good point but something else occurred to me - Joni herself barely > has any formal college education! (a fact I have always particularly > relished ;-) > > Is it a matter of not getting it? Sure alot of the reveiws were disappointing as they were complaints about Joni not playing her older material, however I don't think we > should just belittle them for their opinions. As 'diehard' Joni fans we perceive her in a different light but in no way does that invalidate other people's views of her. > They may be incorrect by calling her a folk singer but that's obviously the way they chose to see her. I find the above remark to be a little condenscing, it's obvious > that you feel a deep and abiding passion for Joni and naturally I agree with many of your assertions but I won't personally attack another's intelligence when they make > comments about an artist. I do feel that the List at times has a tendency to attack those who express negative views about Joni's work. I often don't feel comfortable posting reviews or comments about her work as I don't want to be attacked on a personal level for expressing an opinion. Example: her voice. I love reading the reviews. I love that the community we have is so positive in many ways and so incredibly supportive of Joni and of eachother. This is rare. Music plays a different role for everyone whether it be to dance too, to escape, to have fun with, to find consolation, to explore new horizons etc. None of them are more valid than the other and perhaps we should try to support all fans of Joni regardless of their interpretation of her music. Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:56:57 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: John Low (NJC) Hello, Could John Low please contact me again, when I tired to reply to your email it bounced. I would love to discuss some trading with you... :-) Thank you for your kind and generous offer. Vanessa. P.S. Have a great trip Ange in Sydney! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:55:50 -0400 (EDT) From: w evans Subject: Atlanta Concert, Wallace's trumpet, Klein, etc.. Hey, this is Ken from Atlanta, and it's taken me until tonight to actually have time at the computer to write a bit. Chastain Park was perfect Friday night. The orchestra itself gave me chills and makes me want to go back just to hear symphonies, as it was perhaps the best sounding outdoor concert I've ever heard. I suppose this is because Chastain itself is a bowl surrounded by trees, and the audience was attentive and not talkative as I have heard is often the case there. I'm a bit put off by the idea that there are scads of season-ticket holders who show up regardless of who's playing, or corporate types there to entertain clients, for whom the candles and dinner and evening out are more important than the performer, and yet I was quite happy to find that everyone behaved and everything sounded perfect. The great side-effect being, that Joni was surrounded by candles for the entire performance, amazing once it got dark. (Thanks also to Steve's binoculars, the same ones Bob thanked him for. :o) The performance was everything we expected and more. Expected, being that the songs from the album were faithfully well-done without sounding at all as if Joni was singing by rote, she was expressive throughout. More, being that the five songs at the end completely blew us away. I never appreciated "Be Cool" at all in the past, it always seemed like the WTRF throwaway to me, but now it's something else entirely and I love it! It swings harder than anything else in the show, and gave Wallace and Peter and Larry a chance to show off. Larry's best playing was on Hejira, which had me in stitches because after joni's line "when I'm always bound and tied to someone" Larry played this taunting flurry of notes to hysterically and playfully throw it right back. For those who don't know Wallace Roney the trumpeter, let me note something that had me completely in awe. Wallace has been at the top of the "young lions" trumpet heap for about the last ten years or more. He's thought of as one of miles' main heirs in a few particular ways--- the last full album made by Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, Ron Carter and Tony Williams was a tribute to Miles, and they invited Wallace to play trumpet on it. A few years before, during Miles' final months on the planet, Miles agreed to play a concert in Montreax with Quincy Jones orchestrating a number of well-known tunes associated with Miles' collaborations with Gil Evans three decades earlier, which was highly unusual for Miles as he was never one to look back, until then. After the concert, Miles gave Wallace one of his later-years trademark red trumpets, and I am absolutely sure that Wallace was playing it behind Joni on Friday night. There was one moment that completely capped off the evening for me. Us jmdlers headed to the Ritz-Carlton Buckhead to see if SIQUOMB would make an appearance, and even though she didn't I spent the rest of the night with my jaw wide open because I got to have a brief chat with Larry Klein in the bar. He had just finished explaining to the others how that kind of gig with the orchestra made improvising or altering the setlist pretty impossible, when I asked him if he remembered the jazz songwriter Bob Dorough. He said of course he did, and I asked him if he knew a song Bob co-wrote with Miles Davis called "Blue XMas," which was a highly cynical christmas song with lines like "merry christmas, hope you have a nice one but for me it's blue," "it's a time when the greedy give a dime to the needy," "people giving gifts that matter not at all" and I asked Larry if he would, if Joni is *really* going to do a Christmas album if he'd suggest that one, because I can totally picture her singing it and it seems to fit the "dreary little christmas" theme rather humorously. Larry nodded and said "I know the song" and had a sort of bemused look of surprise on his face that anyone would mention such a thing. Well.. wouldn't it be something if she does, I was thrilled that he recognized it because it's rather obscure, and yet he's the sort of guy who would have the complete Gil-Miles box where it makes it's only currently-in-print appearance. I had my jaw open for about the next two days.... - --ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:57:24 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: DED on CD In a message dated 5/22/00 1:17:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << Dog Eat Dog is out of print, according to my local record stores and Barnes & Noble, etc. Although I have the vinyl (no turntable, though) and a pre-recorded cassette, I'd like to find a CD. Does anyone have any suggestions, beyond scouring used record stores? >> Saw a copy of the DED CD at my local Camelot music store this very evening. $15.99 Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:26:57 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Further clues - NJC Alan wrote: >Hell, > I've give you a clue about the album. Here's some more lyrics: > These are the days of miracles and wonder > This is the long distance call OK, I've got it now - The Boy in the Bubble, from Paul Simon's Graceland. I have the album, and know it almost off-by-heart, but I was having one of those "it's late, and if I think about this too hard, by brain will explode" moments. Thank you to everyone who replied - although I DID stay awake for a while thinking about it! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:26:21 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Atlanta Concert, Wallace's trumpet, Klein, etc.. How cool Ken! I hope she does it! If she follows recent form, she'll let Larry make the list of songs! How Cool!!!!!!!! We all know that she really can't resist any Miles connection at all! It like candy to her! I'm keeping your post in a new folder called "Joni's Dreary Christmas Album". If she includes your pick, I want you to sign the post for me- so I'll have a keepsake of this!! Cool! > jazz songwriter Bob > Dorough > co-wrote with Miles Davis called "Blue XMas," which was a highly cynical > christmas song ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:03:31 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: elitists? NJC While I'm 99% certain no one is intentionally trying to be elitist, I found it curious when Kakki said: >Fomr the time I joined this list, I accepted >that there are people here who know more >than I do, have more of an insider history >of Joni, who are far more educated, >talented, and creative than me. I see many "more"s here and not a single less. I don't think that helps your aim. But then what do I know, I'm closer to the "uneducated slob" image, than Jim's ideal Joni admirer. As for Joni, you'll get my review after the tour closer at Camden, for gooder er wurse. gdave (actually somewhere in the middle) NP: 5/2294 Joni Mitchell, Nara City, Japan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:23:01 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long Far be it from me to suggest that Joni is above criticism, and I don't begrudge people airing their opinions, but honestly! Some of these comments are just dumb. I don't know what particularly annoyed Jim or Kakki, but I was seething at the "fans from the sixties" who posted about the Atlanta show. These "fans" didn't seem to know the BSN album even existed. Somehow I suspect that if Joni had done an entire concert of Hejira songs, these "fans" would have complained about all the new stuff. Hope all the New Yorkers are enjoying themselves. New York is a Joni town, isn't it? Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:54:34 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: two tickets to Joni concert in Boston Does anyone need two tickets to Joni's Boston concert on Sunday, May 28 at the Fleet Pavilion? They are seats 25 and 26 in section 4, row F. (You can check out the seating plan by going to ticketmaster.com.) With a 'convenience charge' from Ticketmaster, the tickets cost me a total of $148.05. I'm not looking for the highest bidder, just the first JMDL member who offers me what I paid. If there is no interest from this group, I will donate the tickets to a charity. I have only seen Joni three times, all in the 70s, so the last thing I plan to do on the holy night of this concert is to stand outside trying to sell tickets. Also, are there any JMDL-ers who attended the Rolling Thunder Review (Bob Dylan, Joan Baez and others) in Cambridge in the late 70s? Do you remember what songs Joni performed? I've lost those brain cells. If you're interested in the tickets, be the first to reply to me at murphycopy@aol.com. Take care, Bob Murphy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:01:24 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: tonight at JUDY'S CHELSEA It was great having so many of you there before the concert. Thanks for the gracious reception you accorded to me and my friends who sang. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:04:09 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Our Lady of Duality, long, etc. Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:08:26 -0700 From: susan+rick I feel compelled to add my two blue-collared cents in here also. Jim, I've always enjoyed your posts and think of you as a "friend in Joni" so I don't believe you meant anything hurtful by your post (or yours, Kakki) but to state that anyone who doesn't have a certain type of education (formal or otherwise) is some kind of dilettante and incapable of appreciating Joni to a level that allows them to "get it" is, as Howard says, elitism of the worst kind (Is there a good kind of elitism?) Joni herself *merely* attended art school after high school so I imagine that whatever she brings to her music is largely self-learned, both lyrically and musically. She is a genius and I believe it doesn't take a comparable mind to be able to appreciate her work to a level where it becomes one of the most important things in your life. I dropped out of university after one lack-lustre year because it "wasn't me" (very 60's, I'm sure) and didn't go back for any kind of official book-learning until I enrolled in an Outdoor Recreation program in my fortieth year. I have been a Joni fan for over thirty years and have followed her (sometimes kicking and screaming) through all her changes (okay, so I still don't like jazz) and here I am today, a park ranger--a glorified labourer with a uniform. And I do get it. Still friends I hope, All good things Rick PS to Colin: ROFL at your reply to Erin > Does anyone know whether Joni had some reason for > spelling "Judgement of the Moons and Stars" the way > she did (instead of "Judgment")? Yes-she didn't get a college degree and therfore cannot spell. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:07:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Atlanta Concert, Wallace's trumpet, Klein, etc.. In a message dated 5/22/00 6:58:56 PM US Central Standard Time, kenevans@UMICH.EDU writes: << Larry nodded and said "I know the song" and had a sort of bemused look of surprise on his face that anyone would mention such a thing. Well.. wouldn't it be something if she does, I was thrilled that he recognized it because it's rather obscure, and yet he's the sort of guy who would have the complete Gil-Miles box where it makes it's only currently-in-print appearance. I had my jaw open for about the next two days.... >> Well, Ken, as Joni would sing..."At Last"...;-) Ken was giving me all this information about Wallace Roney and earlier he had talked about "Blue Xmas". He asked me to include the Roney info in my report, but no way. I'm not afraid to admit I didn't know Wallace Roney from Andy Rooney, and that Ken needed to send his post himself. Ken, this was great! You are really a wealth of information about jazz, so please don't be a stranger because I have much more to learn! And it would be the Coup de Gras to see that chestnut show up on Joni's Christmas record! She would tell the story about how the mad Russian ran into this guy in a hotel lounge who suggested the song, and *YOU* would be the guy! How awesome would that be?!?! Bob NP: Neil, "Heart of Gold" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:07:17 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long From: "Kakki" Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:41:38 -0700 Colin, you wrote: > It doesn't piss me off either nor does it make me want to tear anybody down. that is not what I have >done. I merely reacted to being told that a lack of education, intellect or some other lack meant i >could no appreciate Joni. I feel we are all misinterpreting each other. Jim already has explained to you what he meant, and you seem to understand him now. I understood him originally to be saying it all int he context of how complex her art is that you need to be a great scholar. But I think he was using hyperbole to make a point did not mean it literally. I was the one who pointed out that Joni herself barely had a formal education and indicated that was one of the facts I enjoyed about her. How this all came to be interpreted as us setting ourselves up as elitists, I can't follow. Maybe I should give my background, too. I have a very checkered educational career myself and come from a long line of the same. Lots of formal education (not to knock it) has never been considered that important in my family. Many other things in life are considered more important. That's just another reason why Joni is an inspiration to me - she did not follow the "proscribed plan" to attain her success. > The point is we all have different tastes. I own every single cd Joni has made and love most of them. >the fact that some of them do not resonate with me does mean i lack something. I said a while ago >that i couldn't imagine Joni being able to pull off BSN. I now have the cd and still think that. Others >think it is wonderful. That is what it is to being human. I do not think that those who love BSN lack >anything. Just that they feel differently. colin, your opinion on this has always been obviously sincere to me, and there is truth in it, too. This is not the kind of criticism that Jim and I were objecting to. > No matter how eloquently you write you cannot make people like what they don't. It isn't a reflection >upon you, doesn't invalidate your taste. Nor mine. Of course I can't make people like what they won't. But if they are trying to hammer me or convince me not to like something I do, especially if the criticism is not merited, I have a right to throw my two cents in, too. >To me this smacks of the elitist attitude I and others perceived. It is not a case of being stubborn or >not wanting to get it. We can't all like the same things and to be told that we lack something is >insulting. To be told one is "dangerous", "scary", "elitist" and a "sychophant" is likewise very insulting. > Kakki-you have been here longer than I and in all that time I have never > read anything from you that i thought was rude or arrogant or insulting. > Which is why i was so surprised by your original post and even more > surprised by this second because it is apparent that you didn't get it! > Still none of us are perfect and I won't hold it aganist you ! ;-) No, I'm certainly not perfect, but I hope that you and Howard will consider who Jim and I were referring to now. Not you, not the listmembers. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:35:02 -0600 From: Kate Subject: spelling "Ken, Whenever two spellings are given, the first is the preferred. However, she is Canadian. Webster's is an American dictionary. Paul I" Canadians use British spelling, generally, and rely upon the Oxford dictionary, which is British rather than American. Usually you'll see the difference in such words as colour and color, humour and humor, grey and gray, etc. However, it appears that 'judgement' is correct with or without the first e. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:52:53 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: MPP Hi Janet, I too am an urban type, Baltimore not DC, and have been to many concerts at Meriweather Post. It's a decent venue, provided you have pavilion seats. The lawn seats suck, they're way far from the stage, and for a show like this, lawn seats would really be the pits. Anyway, the directions you culled from their website are right on, and it's really not too far from DC at all. Columbia Md. is the original James Rouse model community, but it's just an artificial suburban fake-out, so in terms of restaurants / watering holes, they're fairly non-descript, you might consider eating prior to the journey. The concessions at Meriweather, like all such venues, are pricey and not good, not unlike Camden Yards in Baltimore, "hon", definitely false advertising to promote an evening picnic, although it might be marginally better for this show, {probably white wine to be had at least}. We will be in attendance with several close friends, but my wife is 8 1/2 months prego, so socializing with JMDLers is probably not an option, I'm just hoping the bambino waits until after Thursday to post.. The most important thing, the sound, is usually very good there. Saw Sting, Steely Dan, and many others at MPP, and would consider several of the concerts I've attended there to be among my all time faves. Joni played there back in 79 for the Shadows and Light tour, with the ultimate band, but I had a gig and missed that.....a misfortune from which I will never recover. Sorry to digress, you shouldn't have any problem finding Columbia Maryland, not Missouri, and hopefully you won't be disappointed. seeyathere. Dave Fairall Baltimore MD. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:53:20 -0700 From: guitarzan@saber.net Subject: Re: These are the days of miracle and wonder (NJC) Coincidentally I heard this song on the radio today. It's "Boy In the Bubble" by Paul Simon. You can go to sleep now, Hell. RR Alan Lorimer wrote: > Hell asked what song are these lyrics from? > > Here's a clue: Elvis didn't write the song ;-) > > Alan Lorimer > Hawley Beach > Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:04:47 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: DOG EAT DOG CDNOW has it.....at a good price too. While not one of Joni's best, it's an interesting period piece, and there are some solid tunes on it as well. Recently I've been getting back into Wild Things Run Fast, which really is a great record. Larry Klein plays his ass off on that one... Dave F. Baltimore Md. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:07:41 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: A Joni Day is Londontown This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------F002B9A7142D5A70EC9ED716 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, you listers across the Atlantic-- I was talking with someone from Joni's management team about our possible Joni project and we were talking about taping the BSN concert and he casually mentioned that the live concert may be filmed when she performs in South Bank, London. So, she must be coming . . . when, I don't know. For all of us--there is a documentary that is currently being completed and it is being produced by the same company who did Writing with Pictures and Music (suddenly, that doesn't sound like the real title). Should be done soon and looks as if it will air on A&E here in the States. More to come . . . Howard M PS and for those who care, looks like our project won't happen becuz what we want to do is very similar to the doc that is being produced and there would be a conflict there. Oh, well--everything comes and goes . . . - --------------F002B9A7142D5A70EC9ED716 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;3 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------F002B9A7142D5A70EC9ED716-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:30:11 -0700 From: Catherine Turley Subject: Re: Our Lady of Duality . . . I was also taken aback by Jim Lamadoo's comments about needing an extensive education to get Joni, but mostly because that seems so true to me. I didn't see his remarks as elitist, or as casting aspersions on anyone at all. I've had the very same reaction to other artists and writers and thinkers. Two examples that jump to mind are when I read the Federalist Papers for the first time in a US history class, or more recently plowing through Rebecca West's book, "Black Lamb and Grey Falcon." Both made me feel the holes in my education and experience very keenly. But I didn't leave those works feeling inadequate--more than anything I felt profoundly grateful to have been in the presence of truly great minds, lucky to have encountered such brilliance and insight and depth, even if much of it was beyond me. And that is how I feel about Joni's work--much of it is beyond me, and if I had a better education in art and literature and philosophy and religion and music, I would understand it differently. But I can still appreciate it, and it resonates in my heart, and challenges my mind, and I'm incredibly thankful that I get to encounter Joni's brilliance. That's what I was thinking when I read Jim's post and Kakki's replies--obviously my interpretation differs from others, I'm not looking for a tangle or to trade flames with anyone, but it seems to me that Jim and Kakki deserve the courtesy of being asked to clarify their ideas before a definitive interpretation is announced and they are labeled elitist or scary or dangerous. Catherine T. in AZ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:43:08 EDT From: PPeterson4@aol.com Subject: New York May 22, 2000 Hi all. Just returned from the New York concert. Others have already commented on how great this tour is. It's all true. It's once in a lifetime - - so those of you in cities still to be visited, get tickets. (On ticket availability: although the concert appeared to be sold out for weeks, as the date approached, suddenly Ticketmaster had seats right up to showtime, many right down front and center. There were plenty of people outside selling extra tickets and since there was no apparant demand for them, they were being let go for less than face value). In case any of you are wondering, only one JMDL'er took me up on my offer of a free ticket. The sound started out badly balanced, but improved as the show progressed (or maybe I just got used to it). Unlike reports from other venues, her voice was always well placed in the mix. Strings tended to disappear when any wind instruments played. At certain levels the live sound mushed with the amplified sound. But I'm picking (and used to hearing orchestral music in concert halls unamplified) - for the most part the arrangements came through fine and they were spectacular, especially the new ones. Celebrity sightings: Judy Collins sitting in front of us. Bette Midler with her daughter and husband. As the concert started and Joni was going through the first part of her set I was thinking how gutsy this whole album and tour is. This is NOT "Lush Life". She just wanted to do it and did. And pulling off this tour is really amazing. I'm sure there were plenty of people telling her it wouldn't come off. Among the first five standards, "At Last" moved me most. And I was appreciating the craft of these songs, when along came "A Case of You" and the song just blew everything before it away. And it wasn't just that we wanted to hear her material or familiar material. The song is brilliant, lyrically, musically, emotionally. "Don't Go to Strangers" which followed simply isn't in that league. The standards are fun, and if she wants to do them fine, but she's way beyond the material. By the way she was in fine voice - confident, secure, power to spare for the big moments, and for the whispers and the purrs. After intermission, the show went into overdrive. "Stormy Weather" was powerful, great arrangement, great song, great performance. "I wish I were in love again" was cute. "Both Sides Now " in its new arrangement, absolutely heartbreaking. She stumbled over some lyrics - a senior moment - the song more than survived. Then the greatness didn't let up: Be Cool - what a hilarious inventive gem. Judgement of the Moon and Stars - almost operatic in its sweep, and yes she still has the chops to put it over. Then the high point for me - Hejeira in a new propulsive arrangement suggesting a locomotive. The whole stage pulsed with the rhythm of those incredible lyrics, and Klein's bass. For the Roses finished up with another jaw dropping arrangement of a song that speaks so eloquently about the same stuff that sounds so cranky in her interviews. What art! What honest self appraisal! And what guts to sing a song like that at this point in her career! She walks off the stage after the words "Like an empty spotlight" and the orchestra finishes with a shattering coda. The concert ended with a perfect encore - Trouble Man in a great energetic arrangement. With cigarette in hand she belted with gusto, not having to save her voice anymore. I've grown up with Joni Mitchell - she's only a little older than me. In the last year or so I've been feeling a little cut off from her present path - Taming the Tiger hasn't really clicked for me - it seems slightly half baked. I had bad seats for the tour with Dylan and felt ripped off by the crappy sound amplification. And I was suspicious of this standards album thinking it might be a commercial ploy. But tonight has convinced me that she is totally into this phase, and thankfully, she says she's working on the orchestral album of her own material. It's going to be amazing. Time and other things have done all of us some damage. This may be the best she can do at this time in her life. Aren't we all lucky? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:44:12 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: David at the Chealsea NJC Hey There, Is David Lahm playing at the Judy's Chealsea on Tuesday as well? I am going to the MSG show and was going to pop in on him if he is going to be there. What's the story, morning glory? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:57:32 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long Deb wrote: >Some of these comments are just dumb. I don't know what particularly annoyed Jim or Kakki, but I >was seething at the "fans from the sixties" who posted about the Atlanta show. That was definitely one of the ones that annoyed me, too. But I think the ones that got to me the most were some of them (not the listmembers!) from my old home town L.A. I guess it's tougher to take when you are there in the audience seeing the same show they did. Plus, I felt some personal disappointment that some of the Joni home crowd would be so shallow. The who sat in the row between Lindsay and I was really atrocious. We ignored him the entire show but for him to actively try to bum down Lindsay as he was leaving is sickening to me. All in all, I did think that most of the Atlanta reviews were fairly positive and polite in any criticism. I especially loved the last one from a Leesa, a member of that night's orchestra, who really posted some nice stuff. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:17:27 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: BSN Reviews In Review , NJC JMDLers- I just found something that haven't seen this publicized before on the List. On Les'es JMDL page, he has beautifully laid out the jmdl reviews of Joni's BSN Tour. For example, the Atlanta reviews are at: http://216.247.66.89/performances/docs/000519.cfm It's a beautiful job of graphics layout by itself- without even reading the reviews! All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:42:03 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: spelling bee SJC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------58E3FAC6195D1272C642E1DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:13:26 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: ludwig's tune Les Irvin wrote: > > Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:45:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: Erin Stoy > > Hi all, > Does anyone know whether Joni had some reason for > spelling "Judgement of the Moons and Stars" the way > she did (instead of "Judgment")? > Erin Yes-she didn't get a college degree and therfore cannot spell. *** After our day and night of jumping on one another's cases, I found this to be utterly hilarious. Howard M - --------------58E3FAC6195D1272C642E1DB Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;3 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------58E3FAC6195D1272C642E1DB-- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #273 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?