From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #271 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Monday, May 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 271 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- pre-show gather - ny - 5/22/00 [Bounced Message ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #269 ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long ["Kakki" Subject: pre-show gather - ny - 5/22/00 From: "patrick leader" Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:29:36 -0400 hey folks, i wasn't planning on attending either of the shows in manhattan. i was intending to go to judy's chelsea, eighth avenue between 18th and 19th, around 6:30 to meet other jmdlers and enjoy the piano stylings of mr. david lahm, and that plan never changed. i'm even more excited because a last minute ticket has come through for me. so i'll be there, pretty early, departing around 7:10 pm. anyone else planning on showing up, for preshow conversation? patrick np - chelsea morning - paul horn et. al. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:46:53 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #269 When Joni was writing her first songs, she was reading Token's trilogy and had a few acronyms for names of fairy tale characters. This one was "She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind (and) Body." She adopted it as the name of her publishing organization. Good question! Do you have others? And by the way, welcome to JMDL! I hope you'll find a home here as so many of us have! - ----- Original Message ----- From: > What does this phrase mean? << Siquomb, isn't she? >> Jim Lamadoo near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:45:35 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long Jim wrote: > After I posted it, I sent a copy to jj and told him that it's a work in progress, that i'd re-submit it to him >as a concert review. He fired back that it was 'great' and he wanted to put it up on a page of a >city that had particularly inane reader reviews. As if to punch up the review section. This was exactly my thought, too! Your post was divinely inspired and just said it all - alpha and omega. I know it's not fair, but I was thinking it would be great if all the inspired, "get it" posts could be brought up to the front of the review scroll list and the inane ones put in another area where one would click on "more archived reviews", heehee. On the other hand, I almost felt sorry for some of those people that have stayed petulantly stuck somewhere in frozen time and are now belatedly punching in their cyber-world selections on the human jukebox that they still imagine Joni to be. I got a good laugh out of some of them, e.g., "where was the dulcaimer?" (sic). But some of them truly irked me, e.g. "I spent a lot of money and she didn't give me what I wanted and didn't play her old songs, yada, yada." Isn't it amazingly ironic that not only did they not seem to give recognition to "old songs", "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" or "For The Roses", but also missed the whole significance of those selections? Even if they couldn't hear the lyrics from the orchestra drowning them out they should have known them by heart and "gotten" it. "They're going to aim the hoses on you" and "just when you're getting a taste for worship, they start bringing out the hammers and the nails." Indeed. The fact that she so courageously attempted these two songs in particular was singularly the most astounding high point of the show to me. It doesn't matter that they are not perfectly realized by the orchestra due to lack of rehearsal time or the dissonant complexity of the music itself. What matters is that we are blessed to be hearing another "Paprika Plains" figuratively speaking, in the making and I am so grateful for this. I think of Charles Mingus inviting Joni to collaborate with him after hearing the out of tune orchestra recording of Paprika Plains and telling her "you're a nervy broad." Charlie got it. Kakki NP: Joni - Blond in the Bleachers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:30:45 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Concert Programs Down Under & in UK (NJC) Jimmy wrote: >In one way it's good that Joni didn't perform in NZ. Only because our dear >Helen Adcock would have been the official JM reporter and the review title >would be "THE CONCERT FROM HELL" > >oooooooooo I know that was bad but couldn't resist! Damn straight it would be the concert from Hell! And I would definitely be the official JM reporter, because there would only be 5 people in the audience in this land of the culturally-challenged! A friend of mine has been trying to find a copy of Both Sides Now locally (before buying off-shore) and in 5 different stores has received the same response in each: "Do you have any Joni Mitchell?" "Duuh - who?" - accompanied by blank stare "JONI MITCHELL! You know, Big Yellow Taxi and Woodstock." "Duuh - who?" - accompanied by blanker stare "Oh, for God's sake.....(mutter, mutter) stupid, ignorant philistine..." as he stomps out the door. Needless, this annoys me a little - does it show?! I bet they know who Brittany Spears and the Back Street Boys are! Hell NP: Both Sides Now - being taped for my friend Andrew, so he can at least hear it in some form before the end of the next millennium! _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:28:10 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: May 30th can't get here fast enough!!! In a message dated 5/21/2000 9:17:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Richard Rice wrote::::::::: << Anyone have a time machine? May 30th can't get here fast enough!!! I want to see Joni and I want to see her nowwwwwww!!!!! >> Patience..half the fun is the anticipation. Whoo-Hoo! Catgirl going to THREE different shows..JONI HEAVEN!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:34:25 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Guitar In a message dated 5/21/2000 10:32:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: << Stuart3333@aol.com wrote: > Hi, could anybody tell me which guitars Joni has played in the past? > Thanks, Stuart The short answer would be, mainly Martins for most of her carreer. >> I remember one of her gigs she played a Seagull Guitar which come from Canada. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:50:52 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long (Sorry Steve!) Hi Kakki, This is began it's life as an off-list reply but it grew. Thanks so much for your praise. Joni is so important to me. I always wanted to write an explanation, a justification of her talents. Plural. Her many profound talents. I just found out that my lunch date, Cindy is breaking off our alfresco, perfect lunches. I never confessed it to her but I'm totally in love with her and have been for years and understand her to her bones, so I've been crying and crying and crying tonight. I haven't cried for 10 years at least but I made up for it tonight and then some. Ask MG. So this might be even more wacky than ordinary. You said, > Your post was divinely inspired and just > said it all - alpha and omega. Uhmmm, since I'm suddenly available and all.... will you marry me? :) I don't know why, maybe you don't get to find out why, but praise for my writing has always been very moving to me. I guess it one of those low selfesteem, external validation things. For what ever reason, maybe vanity, if I take hours and hours with a post, i sort of look to see if anyone reacted and it just knocks me out how much you loved it. It's especially nice after this day today with cindy! You said, > I know it's not fair, but I was thinking it > would be great if all the inspired, "get it" posts could be brought up to > the front of the review scroll list and the inane ones put in another area > where one would click on "more archived reviews", heehee. Well, yeah! I'm just shocked that someone would submit SHIT like "I saw joni tonight and i was disappointed" to an artist's web page. If I were jj, it would feel awful!!! Having to put up stuff like that when he's in it to exhalt her. It reads to me, almost like hate mail. And lots of people did that. These are people who, at one point or another, loved her! You said, > On the other > hand, I almost felt sorry for some of those people that have stayed > petulantly stuck somewhere in frozen time and are now belatedly punching in > their cyber-world selections on the human jukebox that they still imagine > Joni to be. I got a good laugh out of some of them, e.g., "where was the > dulcaimer?" (sic). But some of them truly irked me, e.g. "I spent a lot of > money and she didn't give me what I wanted and didn't play her old songs, > yada, yada." Isn't it amazingly ironic that not only did they not seem to > give recognition to "old songs", "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" or "For > The Roses", but also missed the whole significance of those selections? Even among CD buyers, most people don't have the faintest idea, and i mean the faintest glimmer about "judgement of the moon and stars". it's sooo deep. Naw, it's just another track, right? It just a tune to whistle on the way to work, in the car. Even among jmdlers, it's just too deep. me, I loved philosophy class but 75% of the class was getting very very low grades. they didn't have a clue. they'd sit through lecture and none of it would stick! i'm afraid i threw off the curve. Like me at a football game- it's totally wasted on me. "yeah, they're THROWING the ball. So what? You mean you are imbuing that with MEANING? You'll actually stand around later and DISCUSS that?.......... Really?" I just don't get it and never will. > Even if they couldn't hear the lyrics from the orchestra drowning them out > they should have known them by heart and "gotten" it. Sure. You can't hear lyrics at most shows in hockey areanas, that's for sure. I agree, you and i know those words in our TEETH. They're ingrained! To you and me, it's not just sylables between the chord changes, they ARE imbued with meaning. And multiple meanings. And meanings that shift! Like little green and BSN to lazily quote the obvious. And double entendres. And illiteration. And on and on. it's no wonder most folks don't get it. you have to have a college level education that includes _proficiency_ in lit and philosophy and politics and sociology. And that's just the words. we haven't even touched on the _musical_ demands that she puts on us! You not only have to be proficient in these disciplines, (I just decided to post this in spite of the personal shit in here and capitalization errors) but you have to actually enjoy having these abilities _tweaked_ as your driving your car or doing your housework or making love. Then simultaneously you have to understand that she's shifting from a simple guitar only intro to a lush arrangement on purpose and why it compliments the story. You have to be able to jump from folk _like_ simplicity on the first album, to complex pop on C&S, to a late-night sophisticated jazz piano interlude on Harry's House to electronic jangles on the into to "harlem in havana". You have to 1 be able to follow that 2 be willing to make the jump with her and 3 actually enjoy being challanged in this way. (While you're _simultaneously_ relishing the double entredres and symbolism of the forceps and the stone.) Maybe we're asking the wrong question Kakki. Maybe we should be asking, "How can any one person actually keep track of all this shifting shit in different disciplines while creating it?" Maybe we should be asking, "Removed from an acedemic atmosphere, how can a listener actually do all this work, especially in real-time?" "How can a listener not only follow it all intellectually but enjoy it with the heart, simultaneously?" Maybe it's a miracle that it EVER works, let alone that it works year after year, trick after trick, marraige after marraige, with different players on every album, over and over. It's amazing that a human could pull off this kind of magic ONCE on one track, let alone make a whole career out of it. Maybe it's a miracle that it's also universal enough that it sells at all. I mean, who could possibly FOLLOW all this shit and enjoy it enough to take the ride next year?? >"They're going to aim > the hoses on you" and "just when you're getting a taste for worship, they > start bringing out the hammers and the nails." Indeed. The fact that she > so courageously attempted these two songs in particular was singularly the > most astounding high point of the show to me. It doesn't matter that they > are not perfectly realized by the orchestra due to lack of rehearsal time or > the dissonant complexity of the music itself. yah, she' amazingly brave among all the other attributes and abilities > What matters is that we are > blessed to be hearing another "Paprika Plains" figuratively speaking, in the > making and I am so grateful for this. yes, she's taking chances and letting us in on its development as it happens. On the dylan tour, not critcising, it was all arrangements from the catalog. This is bold stuff. this is not a lazy artist, coasting on her arranger's work, mouthing the words! I can't wait to see her attempt this high wire act in Detroit. Like that line that someone wrote for susan sarrandon on the tribute- she takes us on a hi wire and walks us ALLLLLL the way across. On top of all the other abilities Joan is thorough!!!! > I think of Charles Mingus inviting > Joni to collaborate with him after hearing the out of tune orchestra > recording of Paprika Plains and telling her "you're a nervy broad." Charlie > got it. > > Kakki Yes, Charlie got it. Charlie should be quoted on jm.com this week! lamadoo ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #271 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?