From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #262 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 17 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 262 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: tape trees and Napster ["Eric G. Postel" ] Re: Woodstock '69 ? .............. whoa, it's a long one.......NJC [Treeh] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 ["Mike Hicks" ] RE: tape trees and Napster ["Russ Harlan" ] The State of the JMDL Report [Les Irvin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Happiness is the best facelift [Don Rowe ] Re: Hilburn interview [Guitarpoint@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: The State of the JMDL Report [Phyliss Ward ] NJC tape trees and Napster ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: New state? (NJC) [Don Rowe ] RE: Urge for Going Controversy ["P. Henry" ] Re: tape trees and Napster [Mark Domyancich ] Trimming replies (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Hilburn interview [Steve Dulson ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 ["Mike Hicks" ] www.audiophileimports.com is selling Joni on DVD [dennis.leong@mcd.com] River by Rosanne Cash [philipf@tinet.ie] River by Rosanne Cash ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: River by Rosanne Cash [philipf@tinet.ie] RE: River by Rosanne Cash ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: Happiness is the best facelift [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Happiness is the best facelift ["Ken (slarty)" ] FW: Urge for Going Controversy ["Peg Eves" ] RE: "Conversation" by . . . ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] RE: Urge for Going Controversy ["Peg Eves" ] Re: The State of the JMDL Report [Brian Gross ] RE: Urge for Going Controversy ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: tape trees and Napster, Audiophile's Corner, VERY LONG ["Jim L'Hommed] Re: www.audiophileimports.com is selling Shadows & Light on DVD ["Jim L'H] Re: Urge for Loyalty [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #260 ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni & Croz at Woodstock ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 ["Kate Bennett" ] New Lister [Emmy M Burns ] Joni's LA Concert [davidpaulmarine@webtv.net (David Marine)] enya NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock [Brian Gross ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 [jw1327@rcn.com] Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock [Scott Price ] Yet another Joni mention on Rosie [Phyliss Ward ] Ashara's visit today (njc) [Anne Sandstrom ] mother's day ...njc [Howard Motyl ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:20:49 -0500 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: Re: tape trees and Napster I am completely against this and the reason is that you are partially correct about MP3 maintaining audio quality. When a digital recording is converted to MP3, bits of data are lost and hence quality drops. Of course, compared to a 5th generation analog tape, MP3 is better but that is not a good comparison because almost all analog traders are moving towards CDr anyways. Combined with all the legal problems Napster is getting caught up with, why risk getting dragged into that. I vot against Napster and MP3 for trees Eric - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken (slarty) To: JmDL Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 8:00 AM Subject: tape trees and Napster > > I was wondering how people feel about trading Joni's tape trees > through Napster instead of by mail. If you don't know what Napster is, > it's a trading center for Mp3 files. You use a search engine using > either 'artist' or 'song' as the search criteria to find all the mp3 > files listed by all the other users who are on line at the time. Then > you download directly from them. The good points for this is that unlike > tapes which lose quality from retaping, mp3s being digital keep there > quality.The bad points are you need a pretty big hard drive and you need > a pretty fast conection for this to be viable but once you have them on > your computer it's pretty easy to transfer them through the output of > your sound card to the input of your sound system and a tape deck or if > your lucky enough to have a cd burner directly to CD. > Now so as not to have every Tom, Dick and Harry downloading our Joni > tape tree's we could list them by a code instead of by name. We could > set up a web page to list all the different songs off the tape tree's > and then give a code for each song, for instance Sex Kills from Tape > tree #2 could be called JMDLTT2-2-1. This would be simple enough but > would keep everyone else on Napster from finding out the stuff we have > since people looking for Joni Mitchell's comercial stuff certainly > wouldn't be using JMDL to search for Joni. > > Any thoughts. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:32:23 EDT From: Treehuggergirl25@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock '69 ? .............. whoa, it's a long one.......NJC heh. i'm not old enough for woodstock....i wasn't even a gleam in my parents' eye either! (i'm 25). but.....i did watch a woodstock documentary on VH1 last night, and cheered Arlo Guthrie every time he came on. woo hoo!! i'm not a parent, but, i do play the flute, and i have a b.f.a in photography, as well as a darkroom in my nice looooooooong apartment. I paint and write and all that stuff too, but most of it never leaves the apartment! (unless something was made as a gift) I run a group home for 6 mr/dd men and women, so a lot of the time it feels like i am a mom (for much older people). The job is basically the same as a housewife, except my >>kids<< aren't really my children. does that make sense? anyways, i love it. on a side note, I gave one of my guys, Donald, a Grateful Dead tape to listen to, b/c he LOVES music (mostly that easy listening stuff and polka....he's 71!!) and he's been listening to it nonstop for almost the past two weeks!! i laughed when i realized he had been doing that, and got him another dead tape i had in my car to listen to ( i've also got him hooked on JT and J denver....i need to get him some Joni!) anyways, well, i rambled a bit, but oh well! - -angela ymmij, I'm new to The List (that's a good t-shirt, eh) too. Started with Joni in 1968. I wonder what else the JMDLers have in common. For instance, how many were at Woodstock '69? How many are parents, how many are musicians . It was interesting to see what favored artists we had in common. Long live the Queen!! Peg/VT > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > FMYFL@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 7:12 AM > To: Seulbzzaj@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: New Lister Here > > > In a message dated 05/16/2000 10:24:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Seulbzzaj@aol.com writes: > > << I've also just joined the list - Joe's post was the first I > received. I've > been listening to Joni for 30 years, I bought Ladies Of The > Canyon when it > was first released, and listened to everything she's done since. > I listen to > all types of music - predominately jazz >> > > Welcome to the list Scott! I see that you do like Jazz and Blues > quite a bit > when I noticed your "backwards" email name :~ > > Enjoy the JMDL, > ymmiJ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:04:07 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:24:53 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > has been around a lot longer than Enya. I love Enya too. I did not, Hey, great to see some Enya fans out there. She's way up there on my all time list. mh > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:38:49 -0400 From: "Russ Harlan" Subject: RE: tape trees and Napster I think this is potentially a good idea. I've thought it myself as I read of the "tape trees" and wanted to suggest it. Since I am more of a lurker than a poster I hesitated. But I will will jump in to offer a "second" to Ken's suggestion. The sound quality of a good mp3should be equivalent to what even a high quality cassette would offer. Many folks (like myself) don't use audio tapes anymore. An alternative to Napster would be to use one of the free storage sites such as Driveway or Freespace to house files. You can get 60 MB or more of storage space for free. Then, access can be controlled through a password, so that JMDL members could download mp3 files. It goes without saying I guess that this should NOT include commercially available material. But material such as the tape tree content would be allowed. I'm not suggesting that this distribution method REPLACE tape trees. The tape may be the best alternative for list members who must pay by the hour for online time or for those who have slow connections and small hard drives. But it's a terrific option for other list members who don't have to wrestle with those issues. I'd be interested to see what more "senior" list members think. Btw... I'm going to be seeing La Mitchell on Saturday in Atlanta... first-time ever for me! I can't wait! :) - ------ RussH A much wittier reply came to mind immediately after I clicked the 'Send' button. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Ken (slarty) Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 9:00 AM To: JmDL Subject: tape trees and Napster I was wondering how people feel about trading Joni's tape trees through Napster instead of by mail. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:43:48 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: The State of the JMDL Report Joniphiles - Just thought I'd let everyone know that the JMDL has hit an all-time record high for membership. We now have 724 members as follows: Joni list: 128 subscribers (17.6%) JoniDigest list: 486 subscribers (67.1%) OnlyJoni List: 26 subscribers (3.6%) OnlyJoniDigest list: 84 subscribers (11.6%) Interestingly, membership held at right around 550 members for almost two years - the release of TTT had little effect on membership. The last four months has seen a steady and unprecedented increase in Joniphiles... Siquomb! Les NP: John Fahey "The Legend of Blind Joe Death" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:08:23 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:24:53 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > My favorite is "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" for its naked lady content I like the Hissing of Summer Lawns, for some of the same reasons. That pool scene is soooooooo......... and, of course so is For the Roses inner cover. Man! mike. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:12:06 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:24:53 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > > > > By the way, the JMDL community has tons of Joni concerts > > > > available free. I I am very interested. Just tell me what to so. mike> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:51:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Happiness is the best facelift Color me as naieve as they come, but I always thought Joni meant that happy people smile, and *smiling* is the best facelift. I see now that that's FAR to pat an answer for this crowd -- tee-hee! Don Rowe - --- "Ken (slarty)" wrote: > Well I don't thing that Joni intended it as a pun > though I sure know that John > Lennon did. > Happiness is a warm gun. > A penis is a warm gun. > I certainly can't see a penis being a facelift. ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:55:22 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: Hilburn interview Deb Thanx for putting that interview up. It is interesting that she made those comments about her family and one the Today show she flatly said "I don't want to talk about it" Dave c ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:57:28 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 I was 18 when For The Roses hit, and already a fan. You can imagine what the inner cover photo did to me at that age. "Man!" is right! :-) "Boston Jim" NP: Joni, "Stormy Weather" (off for WPB in a couple of hours!) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Hicks To: Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:08 AM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > > Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:24:53 -0400 (EDT) > > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #259 > > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > > > My favorite is "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" for its naked lady content > > I like the Hissing of Summer Lawns, for some of the same reasons. > That pool scene is soooooooo......... and, of course so is For the > Roses inner cover. Man! > > mike. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:57:41 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: The State of the JMDL Report This is wonderful news Les! I've been wondering with all the newbies checking in...Thanks for sharing! Les Irvin wrote: > Just thought I'd let everyone know that the JMDL has hit an all-time record > high for membership. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:57:47 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: NJC tape trees and Napster <> I don't know if I'm a senior citizen (2 and 1/2 years), but I also am *not* excited about this idea, but only because I just love gettin' them padded envelopes in the mail! Kinda makes every day like Christmas! :~) Bob See you in Atlanta, Russ! NP: Rockin' Louie & Mamma Jammers, "Don't You Buy Me No Beer" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: New state? (NJC) That's local accent slang for the state that gave us Thomas Jefferson: Virginny! ;-) Don Rowe - --- Steve Dulson wrote: > Peg wrote: > > >Brookline, VY 05345 > > Velocity? Vapidity? Variety? Validity? :) ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:18:34 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy well said, catherine! I especially liked: "Joni Mitchell never lies" :o) we are always seeing our fair lady ranting on the music biz and the low-to-no level of artistic effort put into current pop musak and for this she is viewed my many as mal-content, if not downright bitchy... but these assume her motives to be selfish while, in truth, she doesn't have to take second place to anyone... and isn't it really that she's just very, very.... (too?) honest? (you know... the way your little sister was 'too honest' about what you and johnny were doing on the back porch? LoL!) also, I agree that UFG is not a 'man's' song like Winter Lady or Free Man are and I would also wonder if that's what the writer intended... for my part, in my response, I was referring more to the experience of looking at Joni's songlist (she would've taught me any of them I asked her to) and determining the ones I *could* do, determining factors being: a) the extreme limits of my guitar playing ability, b) my range and, c) naturally, the lyric content. as I stated before, Urge is well suited for a male voice (as instrument) and there is nothing in the lyric that's prohibitive to either a man or a woman singing it. it worked quite well for me. ;o) pat - -- Catherine wrote: >...It's a Joni song, dammit - Joni has too much integrity to steal from someone else, and she doesn't need to. (Joni Mitchell never lies.)> >Peace and all that... Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:23:35 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: tape trees and Napster I agree they shouldn't be apart of Napster. If someone gets their hands on it and decides to make a boot of it then we would feel terrible. Blanks and postage or trading all the way!!! NP-Phish, Farmhouse-Bug At 11:20 AM -0500 5/17/00, Eric G. Postel wrote: >I am completely against this and the reason is that you are >partially correct about MP3 maintaining audio quality. When a >digital >recording is converted to MP3, bits of data are lost and hence >quality drops. Of course, compared to a 5th generation analog tape, >MP3 is better but that is not a good comparison because almost all >analog traders are moving towards CDr anyways. Combined with all >the legal problems Napster is getting caught up with, why risk >getting dragged into that. I vot against Napster and MP3 for trees > - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:38:17 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Trimming replies (NJC) The oldtimers haven't heard me bitch and gripe about this for, oh, months. For the newbies Peg, Dax and a couple of others - please edit your replies before posting them back to the list. If you just add your comments and hit "send" the whole previous message gets sent, too, which is a big drag for us on digest. Your friend, ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:39:29 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Hilburn interview Deb Messling wrote: >I don't think this brief interview has been posted. It appears in today's >Miami Herald Online. It was published in the LA Times when the CD came out - not sure if it made it to the list or not. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:02:13 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 > Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:22:58 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > How about The Roches anyone? Patty Smith? Jane Siberry? Yes, please more info on these artists. They are all very good. Jane Siberry is so innovative. Mikei > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:43:54 -0500 From: dennis.leong@mcd.com Subject: www.audiophileimports.com is selling Joni on DVD JONI MITCHELL * SHADOWS AND LIGHT (J)DVD $49.99 Qty (Bass) 2000 release. Now only available as an import, reissued (although appearing for the first time on DVD) with an additional fifteen minutes of footage, including the tracks "Edith And The Kingpin," "Hejira," and "Why Do Fools Fall In Love?" This incredible band recorded live in Santa Barbera, CA. in 1979. Joni Mitchell, guitar, vocals; Pat Metheny, lead guitar; Michael Brecker, sax; Lyle Mays, keys; Jaco Pastorius, bass; Don Alias, drums; and The Persuasions, on vocals. This version also features Jaco's solo, and the track "Raised On Robbery," not included on the 2 cd set. Running time 75 minutes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:05:14 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: River by Rosanne Cash I've had Rosanne Cash's version of River on almost constant repeat in the car for the past two days. Once in a while (probably in a big blue moon) the right singer and the right song combine like this. Johnny's little girl never sounded more blue. Thanks to Clive in Blighty for sending me the tape of this and other great stuff. Philip NP Richard Harris - The Yard Went On Forever ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:12:44 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: River by Rosanne Cash <> I'm supposed to be getting this one as well to put on Covers, Volume 5 - I'm anxious to hear it. Also on the same disc will be Dianne Reeves' "River" which is exquisite! Starts off with almost an Asian feel to it...I also am fond of Heart's take, and of course I was nuts for JT's cover on the tribute, which got mixed reviews from this crowd. Many "River"s to cross! :~) Bob NP: Crime & The City Solution, "The Adversary" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:27:24 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: River by Rosanne Cash I believe it's on it's way to you oh master of covers. >and of course I was nuts for JT's cover on the > tribute, which got mixed reviews from this crowd. I thought JT's cover was pleasant enough. But Rosanne is the real blue business in my opinion. Philip NP KD Lang - drag ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:33:37 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: River by Rosanne Cash <> And a good thing too! I was starting to develop a case of "Cover Envy"! And while I'm thinking about it, I also think Thomas Dolby's "Jungleline" is a perfect mix of voice/synthesizer & Joni song, as is "Midway" and Bonnie, and "I Had A King" and Adrienne Barbeau (well, 2 outta 3 ain't bad!) :~) Bob NP: REM, "Fretless" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:44:30 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Happiness is the best facelift In a message dated 5/17/00 9:10:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, slarty@sympatico.ca writes: << Well I don't thing that Joni intended it as a pun though I sure know that John Lennon did. Happiness is a warm gun. > A penis is a warm gun. I certainly can't see a penis being a facelift. kerry wrote: > I was just wondering how other people interpret the line, "Happiness is the > best facelift." >> i always thought she was talking about herself. that she was happy and didn't that override her living outside of her mother's standards. and at 50 something, happiness is the best face lift of all, so why can't her mother see that in her face? and i also think about her two portraits...the one on ti and the one on ttt and she certainly looks happier on ttt. now this penis thing going, seems a different type of happiness. happiness is a warm gun > happiness is a face lift > a penis is a warm gun > so happiness is a warm penis? possibly? but not exclusively as i recall copi's logic. sorry. i'm out of my normal patterns this week. pat np. a boys dream ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:50:59 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: Happiness is the best facelift I'm afraid this is just to confusing for me at the moment as I need a good sleep. Hopefully I won't be dreaming of penises, facelifts, warm guns or copi's logic in any order. Night all. Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > now this penis thing going, seems a different type of happiness. happiness > is a warm gun > happiness is a face lift > a penis is a warm gun > so > happiness is a warm penis? possibly? but not exclusively as i recall copi's > logic. > > sorry. i'm out of my normal patterns this week. pat > np. a boys dream ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:53:05 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: FW: Urge for Going Controversy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of P. Henry Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 1:19 PM To: Catherine McKay Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy well said, catherine! I especially liked: "Joni Mitchell never lies" :o) we are always seeing our fair lady ranting on the music biz and the low-to-no level of artistic effort put into current pop musak and for this she is viewed my many as mal-content, if not downright bitchy... but these assume her motives to be selfish while, in truth, she doesn't have to take second place to anyone... and isn't it really that she's just very, very.... (too?) honest? (you know... the way your little sister was 'too honest' about what you and johnny were doing on the back porch? LoL!) also, I agree that UFG is not a 'man's' song like Winter Lady or Free Man are and I would also wonder if that's what the writer intended... for my part, in my response, I was referring more to the experience of looking at Joni's songlist (she would've taught me any of them I asked her to) and determining the ones I *could* do, determining factors being: a) the extreme limits of my guitar playing ability, b) my range and, c) naturally, the lyric content. as I stated before, Urge is well suited for a male voice (as instrument) and there is nothing in the lyric that's prohibitive to either a man or a woman singing it. it worked quite well for me. ;o) pat - -- Catherine wrote: >...It's a Joni song, dammit - Joni has too much integrity to steal from someone else, and she doesn't need to. (Joni Mitchell never lies.)> >Peace and all that... Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:06:44 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: "Conversation" by . . . < mentioned.>> > The only one I know of is Catgirl's on the Jonifest '99 Boxset, and she nails it! :~) But "Conversation" should be a good candidate for a cover - it's a pretty, poppy sounding thing! Bob NP: Daniel Lanois, "Sleeping In the Devil's Bed" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:13:11 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Urge for Loyalty I think it's so lovely how loyal we are to 'Our Lady' as, is it Paul? - refers to her. I agree with Pat & Catherine, "Joni Mitchell doesn't lie" . She is TRUE. Her Art is TRUE. Lies about what Johney & I (or Judy & I) did on the back porch are different from the URGE type of untruth. I might "lie" about Judy & me. Joni MIGHT "lie" about she and Larry but no artist of Joni's caliber could lie about writing a song. Crediting people for their work is fun. Sorry so long. Peg > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:27:47 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy Yo Bob, Nix the "had a girl in summertime" explanation. I've had girls in summertime and I'm a girl. I know Joni is not herself a woman- oriented- woman in the affectional or sexual sense, but in general that theory wouln't neccessarily apply. You know what I mean. Respectfully, Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Bob > Muller (Perception) > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:23 AM > To: 'catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca' > Cc: 'Joni@smoe.org' > Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy > > > < song". I'm not quite sure what that means >> > > It means there's a line in the song that goes "I had a girl in summertime, > with summer-colored skin".... > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: The State of the JMDL Report - --- Les wrote: > Just thought I'd let everyone know that the JMDL has hit an all-time record > high for membership. We now have 724 members as follows: > Joni list: 128 subscribers (17.6%) > JoniDigest list: 486 subscribers (67.1%) > OnlyJoni List: 26 subscribers (3.6%) > OnlyJoniDigest list: 84 subscribers (11.6%) Does this mean that 110 of you have some sort of a non-JMDL life??? Take care everyone, Brian np: California Celebrates The Whales Day (11/20/76) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:05:53 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy > <> > > Well, from what I know of Joni in '66/'67, she wouldn't have had a lesbian > relationship in mind when she wrote the song, and she's never alluded to > such in any reference I've ever seen, so all I was saying was that that > line was why UFG felt like a "man's" song...the beauty of Joni's tunes are > the personal things we bring to them that make them work for us, right? > > Bob > > NP: Kitaro, "Island of Life" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:04:35 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Urge for Loyalty Oh Peg, You don't have to urge anyone's loyalty here! ;-) I don't think anyone here has said Joni "stole" the song or "lied" about it. Even if the story is true, Joni's integrity remains intact, in my opinion. I am involved in the legal end of these types of issues in my work so I tend to look at the whole controversy in an analytical, "what if" way. What we learned from the woman's email so long ago was that Joni allegedly *bought* the *bare bones* of the song for $1.00 from some guy traveling through the coffeehouse. If true, she did not *steal* it, and back in those days it was not uncommon for people to buy songs and get the rights to them. It may not be Kosher, but it wasn't necessarily illegal. It would have been looked at as a kind of contract. If she took the bare bones of the song and made them substantially her own, she might have a good case for taking credit for the song. Also, it would be possible that she may not have credited him down the road because she may not have known or remembered his name! This is just a hypothetical discussion not an accusation of her. And it's not to ever imply that she was not creative and talented enough to come up with her own songs. Hypothetically, she may have just loved the sound of it and wanted to improve upon it. *Hypothetically* Long before I ever read that woman's email, I wondered why Joni never released this song on any album and why she did not include it in her first songbook. She did finally release it only as a "B" side on the 1972 single "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio." And why don't we ever hear her performing it early Second Fret sets or other performances from the 60s? I don't think there would be as much questioning if not for these curious facts. But again, this is just a lot of pondering and certainly not an assertion of gospel truth! Kakki, one of her most ardent loyalists! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:22:56 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: tape trees and Napster, Audiophile's Corner, VERY LONG What a neat thread. I think that everyone has valid points so far and it's great to see a lively discussion on distribution of Joni's rarities. It's a topic close to my heart. Let's look at the quality question first. There are two quality levels, basically, in the tape trees. You have the modern recordings from the 1990s and 2000s, but then you have stuff recorded with portable 1960s tape recorders and crappy mics. The modern stuff, like the Yasgur's Farm tape is of very high quality for example, even though it's an audience recording. I believe that the high priest over in Tape Procurement uses a portable DAT recorder. This DAT tape then goes to cassette without ANY intermediate steps! That's why we have that great detail in the Hammerstein Ballroom tape! I noticed that the sound of applause on the TV version sounds like rain on a tin roof. On the uhhhh..... JMDL audience tape, (the one that I've been describing as a surrealistic audiophile version) the applause sounds like people close to you are clapping- no drama just simple truth. The high priest had a better microphone on the audience than the TV people did, clearly. This final layer of quality can be reproduced on a nice stereo or home theatre but probably not on any boom box or any set of _normal_ computer speakers. So I'm thinking that cassette tape and video tape with Hi-Fi tracks are the prefered method of transmission for the modern JMDL recordings. On the other hand, there's some neat stuff on the tape trees that are of lower quality. For example, who would want to pass on the tapes of Joni at the Second Fret coffee house in 1966, just because the quality is below our present standards? Not me. This stuff loses very little when translated into boomboxes and _normal_ computer speakers. It would be perfect material for distribution in mp3 format. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be offered in both formats. By tape for the diehards and on mp3 for the public. Here's my take on using Napster- and I haven't heard anyone else say this yet. Let's say a college kid is going to search on "Joni Mitchell" using Napster. If she gets "hits" and "Rarities by JMDL" as results, wouldn't it be great if we could draw one or two kids away from stealing Joni's catalog??????? The kid gets Rarities by JMDL and thinks, "Wow, this is so _inside_, how cool! I'll buy the CDs when I have the money but for now, I can hear Joni in her coffee house days free. It's neat to hear this artist develop." I think it would set the hook deeper than if the kid got "Big Yellow Taxi". This two tiered approach to distribution would solve the hard drive problem too. We could just put a small selection of early recordings (tape tree 1 and the retrospective part of 3) on mp3. One technical challange here is how do you take a line-level input and convert it to mp3? My Napster won't let me- it's oriented exclusively towards stealing CD tracks. I had some freeware that let me do it but it expired. On a practical level, how much hard drive space does an 45 minutes of mp3 take? I have one gig free, a fast connection (ADSL, 500 kbps) and a firewall to keep the hackers out. My connection is always on. I'm willing to put up a _trial_ mp3 of side 1 of cassette 1 of the radio retrospective from Tape Tree #3 if someone can solve the encoding problem. Is there a way to know how many times a track has been stolen, uhhhh I mean downloaded, from a Napster installation? The manager in me wants to see numbers. Finally I think it's important to keep some perspective. How may people do we think would actually access these mp3s? Rather than ask the JMDL communtity to purchase a big hard drive to distribute the trees, I'd like to see the legal eagles among us find a way to create a structure to pay the costs for Mr. Johanson and Mr. Irwin. JMDL fundraisers as needed, like public television here in the US and public accounting? All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:23:39 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: www.audiophileimports.com is selling Shadows & Light on DVD The video "Shadows And Light" includes the most amazing version of "Amelia"! Metheny takes off in careful, ethereal solo that is beyond description by human beings. It's the most amazing thing...... I'm speechless. Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:19:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for Loyalty << And why don't we ever hear her performing it early Second Fret sets or other performances from the 60s? >> Well, she DOES do it on the 2nd Fret set from the Tape Trees, and again on the Gerdes Folk Festival in '67, and a Folk City '67 show, so apparently it was a part of her performing repertoire... But your point is taken and there are still lots of open questions about it! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 Peg askis,"For instance, how many were at Woodstock '69? How many are parents, how many are musicians" I am all three! Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:25 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #260 please forgive me for baring my soul here....I just thought you would understand and really get it . mags Thank you for baring your soul, you brought me to tears... Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni & Croz at Woodstock Hope this hasn't already been posted (haven't seen it but I'm a digester) Straight from the Croz's mouth re: Joni at Woodstock: "not true I'm afraid ......she was never there and I was only there for the weekend" Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 RE: "I was wondering how people feel about trading Joni's tape trees through Napster instead of by mail." Napster is pretty controversial-many artists are speaking against it. You might consider this in your decision. (don't shoot the messenger, please) Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:27:43 -0700 From: Emmy M Burns Subject: New Lister Hello Everyone, I cannot express how wonderful it is to have found you all. I have been an avid visitor of jonimitchell.com for several years but never knew this list existed. What a thrill it has been these past few days hearing all your personalized reviews of her concerts. My mother and I attended the San Francisco concert on the eve of mother's day and it was absolutely amazing. The night was rather chilly and we came unprepared, but we wrapped a blanket around our shoulders and our faces gleamed with excitement in the stage light and the joy that emanated from the woman herself. It was my mother's first Joni concert and my second. She discovered Joni in 1974 and promptly introduced her music to me via womb (right around the time of the Don Juan's Reckless Daughter release - somehow I have a strange connection to that album). Needless to say it was amazing for both of us to whisper-croon right along with Joni as we have sung along with records, tapes and CD's for over twenty years now. So glad such insightful Joni listeners are out there, I look forward to posts each day. If anyone is willing to pass on information about tape trees and how to go about making exchanges it would be greatly appreciated (I had no idea they were out there). Emmy in Seattle ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: davidpaulmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: Joni's LA Concert Hey List -- I'm an "erstwhile" contributor to the list and occasional lurker. I've enjoyed reading all the concert posts, and while I know it's many days late, I feel compelled to share a few of my thoughts on the LA concert. First, I have to say that it was a beautiful night, and an extraordinary and very beautiful concert. Joni was sublime. She was completely dedicated to realizing her vision, completely open and loving in her expression, completely sincere. Her banter was charming though minimal (except for the funny, moving, illustrative, and instantly classic Beethoven story), and her phrasing on much of the BSN material was even more nuanced and expressive than it is on the album. I was deeply moved, especially when listening to the reworkings of her old material. Somehow the orchestration removes them so completely from their original context that the effect is to highlight the gulf of time and experience that lies between the artist/person that Joni was and that which she has become. And so for me the emotional resonance of these songs created not so much a feeling of nostalgia, but rather more of an appreciation for the continuation and growth of life, love, and art. After the show I thought to myself that this is truly what makes a Diva. Not just that she has "divine" talent, but that she has lived to the point that she can evoke a universal, worldly, and increasingly powerful pathos. It was thrilling to hear the newly orchestrated material performed for the first time. I am very curious to know what stage of development these songs are in, and exactly what the nature of the collaborative process is between Joni, Klein, and Mendoza as they work on the next album. I thought "Be Cool" was the most fully realized and the one in which Joni felt most comfortable. It was beautiful. "Hejira" was also gorgeously and lovingly done; I appreciated the varied and subtle use of the orchestra and the lightness created by the "samba" beat, as it has been called here (and I would say that is probably accurate; it had a little of the flavor of the clip from the VH1 Coast To Coast jam on Tape Tree One -- the one with Wayne, Herbie, David Sanborn, and Bobby McFerrin). I thought "Judgement Of The Moon And Stars" was impressive but a bit awkward. It was so ambitious, and so grand, that to me it needed to be perfect to work, and it wasn't polished. Still, in places Joni's vocals were so expressive, honest, and penetrating that I had chills. "For The Roses" was stunning. The orchestration was ethereal, but here I felt that perhaps Joni had not yet really found the vocal cadence to fit the arrangement (this is just how it seemed to me at the time and I could be dead wrong). Her vocals on the last two stanzas, however, were powerful and haunting. When the dying strains of the song kept slowly and softly breathing, and the empty spotlight theatrically revealed that Joni had made her exit (stage left, in darkness), the audience was enraptured. The piece ended, and for a moment there was genuine, absolute silence. Well, those are just some random thoughts. I feel very fortunate to watch Joni as her art continues to evolve. Though awed by her talent, I am even more overwhelmed by the dedication and love of her spirit. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:26:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: enya NJC for those of you enya fans, today is her birthday. so let's go celebrate some solstice!!!! wallyk, having three windows reglazed after yesterday's winterstorm [120 km-per-hour winds and the century's rainfall record] > Hey, great to see some Enya fans out there. She's way up there on my > all time list. > > mh > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:07:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Straight from the Croz's mouth re: Joni at Woodstock: > > "not true I'm afraid ......she was never there and I was only there for the > weekend" Well, it seems that either: Scott's leg was getting pulled by the guy telling a good story OR Crosby has burned out enough brain cells that he no longer remembers :-) So W.Palm goers and Atlanta goers - it's up to you this week to find out. Right from the source (if you can get lucky enough for an encore visit with Siquomb) Take care everyone, Brian np: Joni at GM Place 5/14/98 ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:16:41 -0400 From: jw1327@rcn.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 Hello all- I really don't know what the ticket situation is like in NYC, but I have an extra ticket to the May 22 Joni concert which I would be glad to sell for what I paid for it (my concert date backed out at the last minute). If you're interested, you can email me directly at jw1327@rcn.com. First come first served, I guess. JW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:41:58 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock At 03:07 PM 5/17/00 -0700, Brian Gross wrote: >>Kate Bennett wrote: >> Straight from the Croz's mouth re: Joni at Woodstock: >> "not true I'm afraid ......she was never there and I was only there for the >> weekend" >Well, it seems that either: >Scott's leg was getting pulled by the guy telling a good story OR >Crosby has burned out enough brain cells that he no longer remembers :-) My B.S. meter was immediately tweaked when the guy began the story but the more we chatted the more sincere it seemed, and then, as previously written, when Shawn found that reference in "Starart" it helped to validate the event. But the Croz seemingly puts an end to the story...and BTW Crosby seems very much "with it" these days...I'm sure he would remember if he was at the festival site a few days before or just for the weekend. I have the gentleman's address and will be sending to him, as promised, a copy of Joni's "A Day At The Garden" performance. At that time I'll enclose a short note saying Crosby himself shot holes in the story. Think I'll get any response? Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:47:02 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Yet another Joni mention on Rosie Rosie was talking to guest, John Stamos, who is apparently married to Rebecca DeMornay. John says to Rosie that the last time he saw her they were at the Joni Mitchell Tribute Concert and proceeds to complain about the cameras being on them the whole time and how annoying it was. He says it should have been the Rosie and John Tribute. Rosie agreed it was annoying but then piped in and said how wonderful Joni is and what an incredible performer she is. John agrees. Ok, so I work from home and the TV is on in the background a lot. Sue me! Phyliss ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:53:44 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Ashara's visit today (njc) Hi everyone. Ashara came by at lunch today. As always, it was great to see her. My sister was also here so they got to meet, which was fun. Turns out my sister and a good friend of Ashara's have the same somewhat unusual occupation of creating indexes for scientific books. Of course, we talked about the upcoming concert. I didn't whine too much. I'm sorry I'll miss the pre-concert get-together. Sounds like a lot of fun. Oh, and Ashara brought some stunningly beautiful roses from Colin. Colin, how wonderful and thoughtful of you! Thank you SO MUCH!!! And Rich, thank you for the lovely note. I think that's so funny that your mom thinks I'm Coyote. My mother would have done the same thing :-) You're right, her prayers are working anyway. So we had lunch - Ashara brought a feast. Unfortunately, I forgot to mention my gluten allergy (some of us seem to be losing brain cells as well as blood cells...) We were all sitting around the island in the kitchen. Russ (my s.o.) sort of sidled around the counter, giving me a quick shoulder rub. Both Ashara and my sister laughed and teased him mercilessly because they realized what he was really after - Ashara's homemade chocolate chip cookies. As Ashara said "I've got your number!" Funny! You know, I couldn't get through this without all of you - Ashara especially. Perhaps we should dub her "pricess of mind beauty." lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:05:43 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: mother's day ...njc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------68AE4A6EC2B1138D65970D3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > I had to work this past Sunday, our Mother's Day here > in Canada, so my daughter decided that we could share > the day on Saturday instead. This is a very tough time > of year for me and it was with great joy that I knew > she had something special planned. After we had > breakfast, she asked me if I wanted my gift . She told > me to close my eyes and wait until she said to open > them. Being the big kid that I am, I was gushing and > giggling with anticipation. < > > > My daughter still sees her father and she somehow > managed to convince him to give back my albums..my > beloved Joni albums. The ones I listened to when I was > pregnant with my first born son, the one I had to > relinquish for adoption. Those albums grounded me, > saved my soul in those days. When I heard Little > Green, I knew I was no longer alone. > > Listening to Court and Spark on the turn table that > day was an experience well beyond any words the > writerly me could ever express. Thank goodness for > Joni. If she only knew what an impact she has had on > my life. > > please forgive me for baring my soul here....I just > thought you would understand and really get it . > > mags Ok, first of all, why is this "NJC" it is the ultimate Joni Content. What an amazing story. It was absolutely beautiful. Your daughter is incredible and loves you unconditionally. What an awesome gesture. This story reminded me--and I'm sure lots of other listers who owned vinyl Joni--of all the LPs of JM and where I was when I got them. When Hejira plays, every time it plays, I can feel and hear the music in my first love's house and there are certainly No regrets there. (Although I should have taken all the antique furniture he offered me when we were passive aggressively breaking up). I wish, too, that Joni somehow knew the impact she has had on all of us. I used the DED poster in a film I made, had it hanging behind a guy as he dressed before going to break up with his boyfriend. I have written poems that I didn't realize until much later took off from JM songs. Not the same as a child and adoption and Little Green, but a connection nonetheless. Thank you--and thank your daughter--for reminding us of our salad days with vinyl Joni. Howard M. (and I can already hear the comments about vinyl Joni--batteries not included . . . ) - --------------68AE4A6EC2B1138D65970D3D Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------68AE4A6EC2B1138D65970D3D-- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #262 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?