From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #243 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 10 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 243 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Erstwhile (NJC) ["Kakki" ] "Hopefully" (was Re: Joni and the Dalai Lama) (NJC) [David Wright ] Ben Taylor (njc) [evian ] Re: "Hopefully" (was Re: Joni and the Dalai Lama) (NJC) ["Patricia O'Conn] Apologies... [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Favorite Careers (njc) [evian ] the fixx (njc) [evian ] Re: Joni Imports: [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni Imports? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [Guitarpoint@aol.com] Lahm an I [Michael Paz ] S.F.Cronicle Preview ["gene mock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:24:57 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) > I'd be interested in learning which recording artists are list members' > favorites (after Joni, of course), and whose careers have been studied with > as much (or, *almost* as much) interest. Sometimes I think I don't belong on this list because my tastes in music are so peculiar and there are so many bands/singers/songwriters that you people talk about that I either know little or nothing about. Also some of the artists that people assume a Joni fan would get into just don't do it for me. But I won't get into that. That being said you can give whatever weight to the following comments that you think they deserve. It's all opinion after all and not the absolute last word. None but the newbies will be surprised that my first choice (excluding Joni) is: Billie Holiday - In her own genre she was as important & influential as the Beatles. Her voice & her style changed over the years. I love all of it. There are some singers whose voices just strike a chord - just the sound of that voice. Joni does it for me & so does Billie. She can soothe me, she can make me forget about aches & pains, she can exalt me or drive to tears. As I've listened to her & read about her over the years I've come to appreciate the genius behind the sound. She was a natural but she was also an accomplished artist whose technique was so flawless that it almost seemed non-existent. Carly Simon - One of the few people I have followed throughout her career. Another of those 'voices'. Not an innovator like Joni, but nonetheless a great songwriter and wonderful singer. Intelligent, tuneful, adult, provocative - all of these adjectives describe her output. And for my money she produced the greatest hook ever in any pop song - 'You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you, don't you? don't you?' She has ventured into electronic music (Spoiled Girl) and sung standards (Torch being the best of her standards albums) and her writing just gets better as she gets older. The voice has lost nothing as the years have passed as Colin has often pointed out. It is still sensual, clear, beautiful and uniquely her own. Jefferson Airplane (*not* Starship) - I've often wondered why this band doesn't get more credit or mention when the 'great bands' are discussed. Now it occurs to me that the Airplane itself wasn't around all that long before it disintegrated. They started out as folk/rock, went through the psychedelic flavor-of-the-month pop period (Surrealistic Pillow) and proceeded to go straight off the wall and off the map. Once Grace Slick joined the lineup they were 6 disparate elements trying to find common ground. They didn't always succeed but when they did they were incredible. The Kaukonen/Casady guitar/bass combination is still one of the best going. When Grace & Marty were staging one of their many vocal duels the results could be stunning. And when they settled down into a nice harmony (Today) it could be exquisite. Bless It's Pointed Little Head - one of the great live rock albums. Volunteers is a testament to the excellent, eclectic rock/folk/blues/jazz combination of music they were capable of producing. Too bad they started falling apart after they did that one. k d lang - baggy drawers & all. I first saw her when she opened for Dwight Yoakum at Seattle's Bumbershoot festival around 1986 or 87. I had heard of her but didn't know anything about her except that she claimed to be the reincarnation of Patsy Cline. She came out on stage in a black skirt and combat boots. Spikey hair - totally bizarre. Then she opened her mouth & started to sing and this incredible voice came out. Her body bent as she sang as if the music were physically moving it. Most of the set sounded like punk meets rockabilly but the voice was the thing that stood out. She went through her country phase with Absolute Torch and Twang showing great promise then left it for a more pop sound. I have to admit I like her covers albums better than her original material. As a singer she has continued to grow and has learned to harness the power of that magnificent instrument she has to marvelous effect. She will only continue to mature and get better & better. Cowboy Junkies - Started as a covers band (Whites Off Earth Now) and then started recording original material. Michael Timmins writes some of the most gut-wrenching, poetic & incredibly rich lyrics of anybody this side of Joni. And lucky Michael, he has the perfect instrument to interpret them in the angelic, deceptively understated voicings of his sister, Margo Timmins. They have evolved from a kind of folk/country sound to one that is hard to define. Their last full album of new material Miles From Our Home is their most elaborately produced record to date. Lay It Down is one of the most powerful and dark records I have ever heard. They are also a great live act. Well that's five. That's enough. Quite frankly there aren't that many artists besides Joni that I own either all or most of their catalogue (in the case of Billie Holiday, owning everything is almost impossible). But these five have so far continued to engage & fascinate me. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:59:34 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Erstwhile (NJC) Lori asked: > Kakki used this adjective in a very > recent post. Another friend of mine uses the word > frequently, and I've been pondering it for months. > I'm never sure if she's intending it to mean what all > of my references say it means, or if a new definition > has blossomed. (Don't ask me to explain why I don't > just ASK my friend what she means ... long story.) > > Please define: ERSTWHILE Patricia answered: > When used as an adverb it means formerly, it is also used >as an adjective meaning former, or previous. I notice this >word used incorrectly quite alot recently too. I probably used it incorrectly, too, but my heart was in the right place. Used it in reference to the SoCal group and my meaning was "my old, long-time friends". Kakki, overuses "actually" and "you know", too NP: Joni - Slouching ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 23:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: "Hopefully" (was Re: Joni and the Dalai Lama) (NJC) Don Rowe quotes Strunk and White's "Elements of Style": > > > > "To say 'Hopefully I'll be on tomorrow's train' is > > to talk nonsense. Do you mean that you will be on the > > train in a hopeful frame of mind? Or that it is > > your intention to be on the train in 24 hours? Whichever > > it is you haven't said it plainly." There's no reason on earth why Strunk and/or White couldn't understand perfectly well what someone saying "Hopefully I'll be on tomorrow's train" means, if they (Strunk and White) weren't being so gratuitously condescending and disingenuous. There are dozens of similar words used in the same grammatical context as "hopefully," yet never objected to -- such as "admittedly," "curiously," "happily," "strangely," "mercifully," etc. The objection to "hopefully" (or any of the other words) is arbitrary, and with no real grammatical basis. And it's obviously not an impediment to comprehension; really, would anyone here be unable to figure out what I meant if I said "Hopefully Joni Mitchell will release a new album before the year 2020," even if they thought I said it incorrectly? Coincidentally (hey, another one!), a couple of years ago a composition major friend of mine here at school wrote a vocal piece using the above Strunk and White text. The singers sing this text repeatedly at the top of their lungs. Then the piano enters, playing a really inane, obstinate I-IV-V chord progression over and over again, as loud as possible, drowning out the singers. (It was what you might call "conceptual.") I found it all strangely soothing. ;) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:17:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: have i missed the new orleans boat? (NJC) In a message dated 5/9/00 3:42:39 PM US Central Standard Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << No Ange, you haven't missed it. It will be May 26th thru 29th in New Orleans with our host Michael Paz. Since you're taking a boat you can bring John, Gerald and the other Aussies. Then swing by New Zealand and pick up Hell, and then grab our Tasmanian Devil Alan. We will make arrangements for all of you down under to see Joni too! >> Absolutely, Ange!! Please do what Jimmy says! Wouldn't that be a hoot! :-) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:23:14 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN covered In a message dated 5/9/00 5:09:33 PM US Central Standard Time, sprout@eircom.net writes: << I was wondering if Bob had gotten a copy of this song and decided not to put it on to the covers collection or if he never got his hands on a copy (if not, let me know....). >> I've heard OF it, Garrett, but never "ACTUALLY" heard it! ;-) If you have it and want to share, let me know! You'll get a free copy of the disc it shows up on, from all accounts it may be yet another slice of cheese - - whatever would Doris Day think of sharing CD space with Hole! LOL! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:32:32 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #242 > Thanks Jimmy, > I would love to pick up all the 'down under' listers and take them on a > 'magical mystery' cruise to New Orleans... > Please, please swing through Victoria and pick me up! Mind you, I'm probably too pregnant to fly now. You can't catch a plane with 10 weeks to go I guess... :-( > > Ange > Sydney > > Vanessa in cloudy Melbourne P.S. I hope you feel better... if it's any consolation, at least you're not in Mooroolbark, home of the Great Grey Moccasin and Giant Holiday Smokes! These are the temples at which all Mooroolbarkians worship... please save me! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:30:54 -0600 From: evian Subject: Ben Taylor (njc) Just checking my email and I see that there are three digests sitting here, so this might have been posted already, but since the topic is Ben Taylor, I gotta say that his voice just makes ya melt -- how I'd kill to have a voice like that, instead of this monotone, fingernails on chalk thing. All I have heard of him is that little song blurb he does on Carly's Letters Never Sent, and I can't wait to hear more. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:40:21 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: "Hopefully" (was Re: Joni and the Dalai Lama) (NJC) - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Wright > There's no reason on earth why Strunk and/or White couldn't > understand perfectly well what someone saying "Hopefully I'll be on > tomorrow's train" means, if they (Strunk and White) weren't being so > gratuitously condescending and disingenuous. William Strunk certainly wasn't condenscending and disingenuous when he pointed out that "hopefully" and "I hope to" are not synonomous. One may understand what another is saying, even when words are misused, but it would be a strange premise for a book on fundamental usage and style such as "The Elements of Style". Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:51:38 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Apologies... Please accept my apologies for forgetting the NJC tag on my last post! Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:51:14 -0600 From: evian Subject: Favorite Careers (njc) > I'd be interested in learning which recording artists are list members' > >favorites (after Joni, of course), and whose careers have been studied with > >as much (or, *almost* as much) interest. > Well, I won't be able to remember all of them, but the people whose albums I always buy the minute they are released are: 1. Madonna -- I've been a Madonna fan since "Burnin' Up" came out, and I even buy all the shitty soundtracks with her stuff on it. I always get excited when a new Madonna album comes out, and she hasn't disappointed me yet, although Evita really wasn't my thing. 2. Stevie Nicks -- My first love, I've been listening to her since I was 8. Although some people think she's full of shit, I really don't think they are listening, and are instead just feeding off the image and a few songs. I mean, it doesn't get much better than "That's Allright" from Mirage and "Some Become Strangers" from Rock a Little. Her last two solo albums kinda... well, to me, they were disappointing, but I've gotta have everything of hers, it's an addiction: "Hello, my name is Rob, and I am a Stevie, the goddess of love, addict. It's been 14 days since I last twirled. 3.) James Taylor -- It's JT -- Enough said. 4.) Fleetwood Mac -- Again, gotta have all of it, in every form the group has even taken. 5.) U2 -- War, the Unforgettable Fire, and The Joshua Tree are favorites of mine, and "The Unforgettable Fire" is my alltime fave song, and even though the last two albums really didn't rock my world, I gotta have em all. 6.) Cure -- I love the Cure so much. Disintegration, Kiss Me, and Faith are classics, the best of the best. And Bloodflowers is a soon to be classic. 7.) Cocteau Twins -- Even though they aren't together anymore, this is one band that I am still rebuying everything on cd. Does it get any better than "Spangle Maker" and "Aikea Guinea"? 8.) Skinny Puppy -- I know nobody on the list is an industrial fan, but SP was a huge influence on me during my teens, and I still love it all to this day, as well as Ministry's Twitch. 9.) Prince -- Haven't bought anything of his since Emancipation (who can keep up) but still haven't given up on him. 10.) Hole -- Yeah Yeah Yeah, I know everyone here hates Courtney Love, but I mean, give Celeb. Skin a chance -- It really is the album I listen to more than anything else. So, I seek out anything of theirs that I can find, even the old, recently dregged up crap. 11. Kate Bush -- Gotta always buy the new Kate when it comes out.... and since it's been 40 years since her last album, it ain't gonna break me. 12. Carly Simon -- I am so excited about this new album I could spit... if only my tooth didn't feel like it was going to explode everytime I spit, I really would. And you know, there are a ton of others. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:55:15 -0600 From: evian Subject: the fixx (njc) Don Rowe wrote: > I'd be interested in learning which recording artists are list members' > >favorites (after Joni, of course), and whose careers have been studied with > >as much (or, *almost* as much) interest. > Ooooh, "Phantoms" is a frigging classic!!!!!!!!! Gotta bring that one to work tomorrow! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:23:18 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Imports: In a message dated 5/9/2000 6:59:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, musicmat@earthlink.net writes: << Also, I've emailed a guy who has soundboards and various other vintage Joni concerts in his collection and he offered to make me a copy of a show in Temple (??) Pennsylvania for 30 bucks. Is that worthwhile? I'm new to the whole bootleg side of things, but I agree that they should not be sold in stores since the artist does not get a part of the profit. >> I got the temple show too. I got it for FREE from the tape trees! You should never have to spend alot of money on Joni music unless you are either buying a CD of one of her records or must get a new release. One day (paws crossed) she might come out with a rare CD collection but until then there are the tape trees! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:25:07 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Imports? In a message dated 5/9/2000 8:24:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << Imports is a polite euphemism for rip-off bootlegs. Someone OTHER than Joni is making a lot of money off these. Most are part of the Tape Trees in much higher audio quality. Save your money and trade with a list member. Jerry >> That is great advice. There are some very friendly listers here that would be more then happy to make you some copies of CD's or tapes from shows. I have been very lucky in that department. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:30:08 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) Well, folks I really can't put a numbers to these folks so here is my list not in a specific order Joan Armatrading (actually her and Joni are my #1) I've seen Joan in concert around 60 times and have about 40ish CD's and bootleg stuff by her. The others on my top five list would be; Nina Simone Renaissance Bill Nelson (Bebop Deluxe) Paco DeLucia Dave c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 23:51:13 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Lahm an I Hello All- I am still not aware of what's going on in the world or on the list, but wanted to drop a line a gloat a little about the wonderful time I am having getting to know David Lahm and his wonderful piano playing. We had a chance tonight to play quite a few songs together and it was wonderful for me. I normally play these songs by myself and am not use to having a great player improvising along with me. I kept stumbling because I was having so much funb just listening. David has to leave tomorrow night but it has been a great time having him here at the house. It has been a great Joni month. I also fogot to write in and tell you how wonderful Diane Krall was (even though she did not play A Case of You). I asked Tony, her manager, if she had been doing it, and he said she has done it at every show since the Tribute. When she went back up for the encore I was at the bottom of the short stairs to the stage a hollered for her to do it. She turned back and looked at me and smiled a sort of a sheepish grin. I'm not sure why. She seemed to be somewhat uncomfortable in the Jazz Tent setting, although the crowd loved her. Laurence Fishburne was seated on the stairs two feet from me. We exchanged a couple of smiles and nods, but I chose not to speak to him to try and be respectful to him and to the music. I did make a comment to my friend when I went to sit down (after standing up all day I was beat) I commented that I wondered if my ass still worked and he burst out laughing and so did I. I also got to record Ani DiFranco's set and totally enjoyed her and her crew. It was the best sound I heard ever at the Jazz Fest. Very talented engineers. I wish I could write more but I am exhausted and have to get up early so I can play a little more with Lahm. Night all. Peace Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:06:03 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: S.F.Cronicle Preview MUSIC: Folkie-Cum-Chanteuse Court or Spark? When did we become our parents? And when did our Lady of the Canyon become Shirley Horn? Those are two questions that longtime baby boom fans of Joni Mitchell will be asking themselves as they listen to Both Sides Now, the 20th album -- and most dramatic departure -- of Mitchell's 32-year recording career. Mitchell, the beloved Canadian-born pioneer of confessional contemporary folk music, takes a radical turn to swathe herself in the kind of silky brass and gossamer violins that romanced a generation of Depression-era fans. -- Derk Richardson May 13: Joni Mitchell and the Both Sides Now Orchestra; Chronicle Pavilion, 2000 Kirker Pass Rd., Concord; 8 pm; $27.75-$77.75; (925)676-8742. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #243 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?