From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #242 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 9 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 242 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Favorite Careers (Rationale)NJC [Randy Remote ] How Do You Stop [Howard Motyl ] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama [catman ] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama [catman ] Re: Favorite Careers (Rationale)NJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama (actually) [Catherine McKay ] favorite careers [Janene Otten ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) ["intagliata" ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [jan gyn ] have i missed the new orleans boat? (NJC) ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [catman ] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [catman ] Re: have i missed the new orleans boat? (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama [catman ] new orleans boat(NJC) ["Takats, Angela" ] Running into Dykes NJC [catman ] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Joni soundscan ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: Joni in FL tickets available! [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Favorite Careers ["Madell S" ] Re: Urge for Going Controversy(NJC) [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] RE: Patti Smith (NJC) ["Garret" ] BSN covered ["Garret" ] Donna Summer (NJC) [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] One Ticket for the Boston Show [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: Patti Smith (NJC) [michael w yarbrough ] RE: Patti Smith (NJC) [David Wright ] Concord show [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Concord show [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: Patti Smith (NJC) [David Wright ] who i love musically besides Joni.... njc [pat holden Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (Rationale)NJC "James L. Leonard" wrote: > > > I agonized over placing The Beatles on this list, and Marcel has made a > wonderful, eloquent case for their inclusion. but > their career to have been sadly short-lived. > it all ended too soon, in 1970. Maybe so, but consider this: in only six years they put out thirteen albums, wrote and recorded over 200 songs (not to mention 4 movies, live concerts, a yearly Xmas record, etc.) And their singles were not on the albums! Today's artists put out a new record about every 3 years (with ten songs opposed to their 13/album). So in todays 'currency' their carreer was 18 years long (in dog years). RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 13:16:46 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: How Do You Stop This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------C37AA1BB6A1C9051647449A9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If this has been discussed before, forgive me. I was reminded yesterday when looking at the TI credits that How Do You Stop was not written by JM. Is there a story about this choice? Is this the same Dan Hartman who wrote that wonderful disco song Instant Replay? Also, it continues to astound me how great, really great--I mean, one of the all-time great, top five songs--the song Turbulent Indigo. It's totally Joni but not overdone Joni (sometimes she overdoes herself, especially in the background vocals). The music in this is superb; a wonderful beat--great lyrics, her voice is amazing, and even Wayne Shorter's playing is perfect for this song. (Someone here said he had problems with Shorter during the tribute--he was kind of just spurting out notes here and there and getting too much camera time--and I agree with him wholeheartedly.) Somehow, here in TI, the short bursts work beautifully, almost like the short, abrupt brushstrokes of Van Gogh. Howard M - --------------C37AA1BB6A1C9051647449A9 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------C37AA1BB6A1C9051647449A9-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 19:31:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama Actually, Lori, I think I actually agree with you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 19:32:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama Actually, i take the meaning to be that the said person will be on train tomorrow if nothings happens that actually prevents them from catching that actual train. Don Rowe wrote: > > --- "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > > What -- if any -- is the purpose of the current and > > increasingly pervasive habit of inserting "actually" > > into routine statements of fact? > > The one that always gets me is "hopefully." Strunk > and White's "Elements of Style" nails this one: > > "To say 'Hopefully I'll be on tomorrow's train' is to > talk nonsense. Do you mean that you will be on the > train in a hopeful frame of mind? Or that it is your > intention to be on the train in 24 hours? Whichever > it is you haven't said it plainly." > > Don Rowe > > ===== > "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." > -- Julia Fordham > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 19:33:22 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (Rationale)NJC No sooner had I sent in my own list, I remembered the Fab Four. Damn, I thought...I'll have to send in a *part two* post with another 5! I'll do that eventually, but for now... Randy's evaluation of the Beatles' *dog years* longevity (what a great way of putting it!) is spot on. I personally don't think the fact that their *career* together as a recording entity lasted just 8 years should neccessarily count against them. Those albums and singles make up a body of work that's large and varied enough to still be thought of in the same terms any of the 60s or 70s acts who perhaps spanned a greater number of years with a slower rate of output. Paul McCartney himself is also one of the artists whose entire career I feel has been worthy of investigation. True, the inconsistency during his post-Beatle years has at times been frustrating, but his is a free-flowing talent largely free of preciousness. For every Mull Of Kintyre or Off The Ground, there is a Flowers In The Dirt or Flaming Pie. I still hope for a Macca Box Set to finally collect all the various eras and strands of his career. It's long overdue. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:50:29 -0400 From: "Debby Magill" Subject: Re: Joni in FL tickets available! Hey everyone! It's been awhile since I've written ... but I've been following the flow :~) Anyway, I have a pair of 5th Row seats for Joni in West Palm Beach, FL on 5/17 (a week from tomorrow)! I am NOT going to be able to use these tickets and am putting them up for sale for cost. I can't believe I can't go and I just don't want to be out that money, too. They are GREAT seats and I'm sure that someone would love to use them. Please email me at debbyis@prodigy.net if you are interested in buying these awesome seats. I look forward to hearing from you :~) Sadly passing the torch, Debby in Mad Beach ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:10:32 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) I love the Carpenters.I think Karen had such a sweet,pretty voice! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:11:21 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) Welcome back, Don/Larry/Chris.... ;-) Some excellent choices in your list, some of which I haveto comment on : > The Smiths -- Morrisey and Marr are just about single-handedly responsible, I think, for the > re-invention of the British pop sound. Some of the greatest guitar playing you'll ever hear, and a > brilliantly mopey lyrical style that keeps you > wondering just how seriously to take it -- or not -- keeps this band near to me. I've been listening to The Smiths recently, after catching an old performance of theirs on a UK music show. In amongst the various embarassing 70s and 80s acts, they stood out by more than a mere mile. That's not to say they were necessarily my *favourite* of the acts included on this particular compilation/archive show (I am a huge Human League fan), but their very unique style reminded me just how against-the-grain they were back in 1983. Duran, Spandau, Culture Club and Wham! were very much at the apex of pop music in the UK at that time, and The Smiths provided possibly the only viable alternative to the mainstream rock and pop of the era. Their continued standing amongst critics, fans and today's bands is testament to what a truly influential and unique group they were. Don, you are right in suggesting they re-invented British guitar pop. Initially, the copycat bands were often woefully lacking in any of the true qualities to be found in their original inspiration. I think it took a good five years for things to come good...with The Stone Roses the most obvious example. Different, of course, but Johnny Marr's influence is there to see. Morrissey's lyrical style, on the other ahnd, has been widely copied but never, ever, matched. His assimilation of all things British and slightly off-kilter was masterful, and it was a long time before anyone really considered his "miserablisim" could be anything *other* than the real deal! Despite seeing each of their four studio albums reach either #1 or #2 in the UK album charts (as well as two compilations of odds & sods make the Top 10), they never really had the singles success that might have been expected. Those discovering them posthumously must have been surprised at the realtively low chart placings of their releases. Only "Heaven Knows I'm Miserbale Now" and "Sheila Take A Bow" actually reached the giddy heights of #10. A whole host of others would enter somewhere around #20, then disappear with almost indecent haste. They were a true *fan base* act, at a time when there were very few such bands who sold more than 2,500 copies of their music. There had been many in the late 70s and early 80s (it must sound strange, but the likes of The Jam, Human League, Adam & The Ants and even Blondie were, albeit extremely popular, fan base acts). Another thing they resurrected was the practice of putting out non-album singles, a hallmark of The Beatles' career. It was only after their demise that one of their albums (Strangeways Here We Come) would be plundered for more than two singles, and only on two other occasions did they ever release a track on 45 that was already available on an LP. It kept things fresh and unpredictable, the now-widepsread commercial demands of carefully-planned and sequenced worldwide promotional campaigns nowehere to be seen. Their legacy is a wonderfully rag-tag collection of 18 quintessentially British guitar pop singles. Most of them essential, a few simply diverting. > Frankie Goes To Hollywood -- Live fast, die young and leave a good-lookin' corpse. For those who > don't know, Trevor Horn took this thrash-punk act, and > turned them into one of the greatest power-pop bands of recent memory. "Welcome To The Pleasuredome" > is a tour-de-force ... and includes some of the greatest covers of all time -- whilst cheekily > parodying acts from Springsteen to Pink Floyd. Without doubt, the now-defunct 12" single was MADE > for these guys. I totally agree. I count myself lucky to have experienced (and been caught up in) the whole FGTH phenomenon first-hand. Their dominance and ubiquity may have been rather brief, but boy did they make a splash! Two Tribes remains, IMHO, the greatest single of all-time. 16 yrs on, it still knocks me out. There's never been anything like it, either before or since. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:19:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) - --- Alison Einerson wrote: > i absolutely > adore jonatha brooke. i > have everything she has put out, as well as "the > story" stuff. her solo > stuff is definately more powerful, imo. > she kind of replaced shawn colvin for me, in a way. > although i love shawn's > stuff, she doesn't seem to be putting out the kind > of stuff i want to hear > anymore....it's all nursery rhymes and songs about > being happily married. > who wants to listen to that depressing shit??? ;-) LOL - yer right. People don't write good stuff when they're happy (dammit!) (I like Shawn too, but wonder why she hasn't got more albums/CDs in her career, or did I miss something?) > as fer ol' cat, i grew up listening to his music and > will never be able to > find a replacement for him. > sad lisa...possibly one of the saddest and most > beautiful songs ever > written. i have all his stuff on vinyl and should > probably try to get the > cd's (if they even put them out on cd!) > They actually DO! I found these referenced on CDNow - and I think there's a boxed set due out some time (soon?) that has absolutely everything he ever did (so they say.) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:35:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama (actually) I wrote, in response to Catman's question about Joni's particular parasite of speech: > She does use "you know" a lot. So do most people > (or other similar expressions). It's part of the > built-in redundancy of oral speech. Gives the >speaker time to form their next thought, and the >listener time to take it in. - --- "Lori R. Fye" responded: > I have to chime in here, as this has been annoying > me > lately ... > > What -- if any -- is the purpose of the current and > increasingly pervasive habit of inserting "actually" > into routine statements of fact? I hear this reply > all too often: "I'm sorry; she's actually on the > other line." Or: "He's actually at lunch." As > opposed to what? Hypothetically? > > Today a fellow who was returning my phone call began > the conversation with, "This is actually Scott." > It's > not as if I'd mistakenly thought he was someone > else; > he just offered the information that he was actually > himself. > > What's up with this??? Does adding "actually" make > an > otherwise mundane statement sound more important? > > Lori, wondering if people ever consider what they're > "actually" saying, in DC > This cracked me up! You're right - I've heard a lot of people use "actually" that way, too. That goes beyond "Uh" or "y'know" - as long as you don't hear too many of those all at once, you usually tend not to notice them. That's just plain wrong. (So there.) Have you ever noticed that people who use "actually" a lot (in that way) either drawl it, or try to sound "British" when they say it? But I think you hit the nail on the head when you asked: "Does adding "actually" make an otherwise mundane statement sound more important?" Haven't you noticed there's an AWFUL lot of *that* kind of thing around? Here's a funny one someone *actually* (and in all seriousness) wrote to me in a business e-mail a couple of weeks ago: "I will provide more *fulsome* comments later today or tomorrow morning." All I can say to that is, "Iiwwwww". ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:37:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama - --- Don Rowe wrote: > > > The one that always gets me is "hopefully." Strunk > and White's "Elements of Style" nails this one: > > "To say 'Hopefully I'll be on tomorrow's train' is > to > talk nonsense. Do you mean that you will be on the > train in a hopeful frame of mind? Or that it is > your > intention to be on the train in 24 hours? Whichever > it is you haven't said it plainly." > Just to prove how pervasive it is, every now and then I wonder if the *right* meaning of "hopefully" is actually the *wrong* one, if you get what I mean. Here's another one that bugs me - people who use "presently" when they mean "now". "Presently" means "soon". ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:48:15 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Urge for Going Controversy Victor wrote: >Everybody is probably familiar with the James Taylor song, "Shower the People." This was in fact not >written by James Taylor. It was written by an unknown songwriter who sold all rights to the publisher >for a flat sum. It then became the publisher's song to do with as they saw fit. So it is not that unlikely >of an occurance that Joni could have done the same thing. This was also one of my points in the original debate. I've known a few songwriters personally who sold songs outright back in the 60s-early 70s. Can't name names but one sold a classic top hit for a famous R&B artist that still gets a lot of airplay. He received $30,000 for it and gave up all rights to future royalties. He was a young unknown at the time and couldn't help but be tempted to sell his song for that kind of money to a famous artist. In the post that was forwarded to the list about UFG, the woman related that her father (who she said was a young unknown passing through the coffee houses at the time) sold the song to Joni for one dollar ($1.00) and as I recall, it was just the rough bones of what the song eventually evolved into by Joni. The woman also said her father had no ill feelings about it whatsoever. I'm not saying I believe it's true, but it is plausible. And it doesn't change my opinion or regard of Joni if she did do it. Kakki NP: Joni - Nothing Can Be Done ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:09:56 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: favorite careers Hi, everyone. I wanted to chime in on Jim's question about careers If you haven't heard a band called The Screamin' Cheetah Wheelies, please check out their CD's, first is self-titled, second is called Magnolia & third is called Big Wheel. They are one of my favorite bands of all time and I love them. They are from Nashville, TN and sound like a cross between Elvis Presley, Otis Redding, Stevie Ray Vaughan and Little Feat, maybe a little Allmans too. I know that the description is lacking but the music & spirit of this band is indescribable. It's even better if you can see them live. When they're live, they thrive. Regard this as my #1 plug! I also love R.E.M. Lyrically, Michael Stipe is factual, historical, witty, sensual and smart. The music of Peter Buck & Mike Mills (Bill Berry, pre-departure, too) is sonically simple yet simultaneously lush and beautiful. I can never get enough R.E.M. The Beatles have always been my choice for best band ever for reasons I think are entirely personal. I mean, almost everyone I know likes the Beatles but when I ask someone why, they have a difficult time putting it into perspective. They are (were) incredible songwriters. My final favorite has to be Peter Gabriel. Peter breaks free from the norm with his innovative music and is a wonderful human as well. What a man! That's all for now except to say that there's no one like Queen Joan. Back the the lurker's lair... Peace, Janene np: Lou Reed - Ecstacy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:15:19 -0300 From: "intagliata" Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) Lou Reed Joao Gilberto the Beatles/John Lennon Pixies Mariana, in Argentina NP: Joao Gilberto, "Joao Voz e Violao" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:13:11 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) In a message dated 5/9/00 6:52:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AngelinoCoyote@aol.com writes: << 4. Donna Summer: A very talented singer/songwriter/painter IMO. She sold out to disco - obliterated her image and thus, the rest of her career. I wonder what would have happened had she taken a different career path? She should have studied the career of Miss Ross (discreet forays into disco, but didn't sleep there). She'd still be filling the Hollywood Bowl. >> Not that I was ever into disco because I never was BUT it was pure pop. Whats wrong with that. I will admit to seeing Saturday Night Fever when it came out and thought it was hillariously cartooney. The Bee Gees soundtrac on the other hand has its moments. The thing people have to get over about disco is WHY it happened. Long ago and far away in a parallell universe there was a time when boys and girls (and later boys and boys and girls and girls) used dancing as an excuse to rubbing against each other. Now you can say alot of negative things about disco but only from the standpoint of the meaningfullness of the lyrics for which you could say equivalent things about many other forms of music as well. Someone want to say that no records were sold ? Someone want to say that the music production values sucked ? Donna Sommer cant carry a tune?? Someone want to say that people raged out of Discotecs as soon as the DJ had the audacity to inflict it upon the masses. No, I dont think anyone can say those things. It seems to me that the backlash against Disco was kind of a snobby thing. Those bass and percussion tracs were out there lets face it. Again I never got into it but to dismiss it altogether and all the artists in the realm out of hand I think is shortsided. It wasnt meant to rival Einsteins theses, it was meant to boogie in front of someone you wanted to boogie with. Hopefully you had your body chops refined to where you became irresistable and succeeded in getting their attention. After all you had over 20 minutes to work on it even if she thought you were a total dork. She could actually become entranced by those wicked hand gestures waving and finger points in opposit directions simultaneously. AND let us not forget it was John Travolta who grabbed his crotch first and not Michael Jackson. So poor Donna ? How is she any different than William Shatner who still looks like Captain Kirk even if he plays the part of a houseplant in a beach bongo movie. The Shat may have "ruined" his career but he will be remembered for what he did forever. So will Donna. At the time of its creation, Impressionist Art in Paris was totally trashed. My prediction, because the purpose of disco was to get people together it will return as a pop medium. It works in that regard. Keep in mind, there are many people out there today watching Lawrence Welk reruns and listening to Montovani. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 13:11:50 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) At 12:19 PM 5/9/00 -0400, you wrote: >--- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: >>KD Lang's pants >Bwa-ha-ha! I betcha thought no one would notice >*that*! (Tres amusant) >===== >Catherine (in Toronto) >catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca I'm bot getting this. Was KD Lang panting after Joni? - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:16:22 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: have i missed the new orleans boat? (NJC) Hi Listers, sorry to bother you...but I have totally missed the posts on the New Orleans and was wondering whether someone would be kind enough to tell me when and exactly where this jonifest is....has it been already?? thanks Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:30:04 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Shower the People (NJC) Victor wrote: >Everybody is probably familiar with the James Taylor song, "Shower the >People." This was in fact not written by James Taylor. It was written by >an unknown songwriter who sold all rights to the publisher for a flat sum. I would REALLY like to see your documentation of that claim, Victor. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:30:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) I agree with you that karen has a wonderful voice but sweet and pretty are not the words I would use to describe. I imagine those words belong to someone with a high feminine voice. Karens voice was strong and deep. funny how we use words and how their meaning changes from person to person. That is the only reason i wrote this-not to criticise you for using those words. Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > > I love the Carpenters.I think Karen had such a sweet,pretty voice! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:38:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama From Catherine (in Toronto): > Here's another one that bugs me - people who use > "presently" when they mean "now". "Presently" means > "soon". Here's one more. Kakki used this adjective in a very recent post. Another friend of mine uses the word frequently, and I've been pondering it for months. I'm never sure if she's intending it to mean what all of my references say it means, or if a new definition has blossomed. (Don't ask me to explain why I don't just ASK my friend what she means ... long story.) Please define: ERSTWHILE Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:40:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) I don't see how Donna sold out to Disco as that is what made her name. Also, her music was not unintelligent and had some great tunes etc. I think the reason Donna lost her following was for two reasons: The unfortunate false quote about AIDS and gay people. She sued and WON that case(which i only recently found out). and two:becuase she chnaged her style and made music her fans didn't like. I know I stopped buyin after She Works Hard... or the Quincy Jones produced album-can't recall which was the later. Perhaps she should have stuck with Moroder. I still enjoy the cd's I have of hers. I remember I was working at night in a disco called Nero's in Southsea(str8, full of Sailors and fights eevry night-the closest I got was to stand behind my bar and use the soda syphon if they got too close-and the figths were like the ones in the movies-tables and chairs flyinf and breaking) when i first heard Donna. It was I Feel L> No Ange, you haven't missed it. It will be May 26th thru 29th in New Orleans with our host Michael Paz. Since you're taking a boat you can bring John, Gerald and the other Aussies. Then swing by New Zealand and pick up Hell, and then grab our Tasmanian Devil Alan. We will make arrangements for all of you down under to see Joni too! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:44:43 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama Actually, here are two words that actually have the opposite meaning now: bad and wicked. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:47:23 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: new orleans boat(NJC) Thanks Jimmy, I would love to pick up all the 'down under' listers and take them on a 'magical mystery' cruise to New Orleans... I was seriously considering blowing my savings on a month-long trip to the USA - to do the whole jonifest thing and was hoping the festival was a little later in the year....my life is at a total dead-end at the moment...and i thought - what better way to fix it and get some inspiration - - than to hang out with some listers at a jonifest.....but I don't think my boss would give me time off at this short notice....maybe next time BUT...if i do happen to 'throw the towel in' (is that just an aussie saying?) and take a trip O/S...I sure hope to see some of you - somewhere...maybe u'll be able to give me some much needed direction... Ange Sydney <> << Hi Listers, sorry to bother you...but I have totally missed the posts on the New Orleans and was wondering whether someone would be kind enough to tell me when and exactly where this jonifest is....has it been already?? thanks Ange Sydney >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:50:06 +0100 From: catman Subject: Running into Dykes NJC The weather was lovely today. Drove out Norwich way for doggy reasons. Cd player on and LTOC playing-I associate that with summer. Anyhow, the roads are windy and narrow, some only single track(ie only room for one car either way-if a car comes toward you you or they have to back up to a passingplace). On either side of the rods are dykes. the area we now live is covered with dykes. very dangerous, especially in winter and ofg.Anyway, this frigging lorry comes hurtling along with no room to get past me and I had to swerve and very nearly ran into the dyke. My car just started to lean into it when i manged to pull it bakc and onto the road. this whole area used to under water! March was an island. i didn't know any of that before we moved. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:54:07 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama - ----- Original Message ----- From: Lori R. Fye > Please define: ERSTWHILE When used as an adverb it means formerly, it is also used as an adjective meaning former, or previous. I notice this word used incorrectly quite alot recently too. Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:56:21 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) Marcel said: > My prediction, because the > purpose of disco was to get people together it will return as a pop medium. It has; it's now known as house. The connection is not only sonic, but directly genealogical. House began when Frankie Knuckles (some argue it was someone else, but whatever) would spin disco records with a thumping 808 beat underneath. It went mainstream as a possible top-40 form with "Vogue" and the single mix of "Express Yourself" by Maddie, and a huge number of house-based/pop-structured tunes have become major hits in the ten years since then, from great ("Pride (A Deeper Love)" and EBTG's "Missing" remix) to dreck ("Believe"). While other rhythms have come to dominate dance music from time to time (like drum-n-bass), we keep returning to some form of house, and 1999 was a great year for it. It is the dominant dance music in clubs and second only to hip-hop in its domination of mainstream pop dance music. - --Michael NP: Rolling Stones, "Bitch" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:10:50 EDT From: Treehuggergirl25@aol.com Subject: Re: Running into Dykes NJC does anyone from the States see just a wee bit o humor in this?............. - -angela In a message dated Tue, 9 May 2000 5:52:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman writes: << The weather was lovely today. Drove out Norwich way for doggy reasons. Cd player on and LTOC playing-I associate that with summer. Anyhow, the roads are windy and narrow, some only single track(ie only room for one car either way-if a car comes toward you you or they have to back up to a passingplace). On either side of the rods are dykes. the area we now live is covered with dykes. very dangerous, especially in winter and ofg.Anyway, this frigging lorry comes hurtling along with no room to get past me and I had to swerve and very nearly ran into the dyke. My car just started to lean into it when i manged to pull it bakc and onto the road. this whole area used to under water! March was an island. i didn't know any of that before we moved. >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 23:14:50 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) michael w yarbrough wrote: > House began when Frankie Knuckles (some argue it was someone else, but > whatever) would spin disco records with a thumping 808 beat underneath. > It went mainstream as a possible top-40 form with "Vogue" and the single > mix of "Express Yourself" by Maddie, and a huge number of > house-based/pop-structured tunes have become major hits in the ten years > since then, from great ("Pride (A > Deeper Love)" and EBTG's "Missing" remix) to dreck ("Believe"). Yes, it was probably "Vogue" that took it overground. Am I right in thinking *House* music originally eminated from Chicago? In the UK around 1986/1987, there were several Top 20 hit singles that were from that scene, and which I've always considered (or assumed) to be House. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 15:32:02 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Joni soundscan Report for last week is available; email me if you'd like a copy. Sorry for the delay! New numbers will be out tomorrow. Last week BSN sales fell from 20,936 to 13,087 and chart position slipped from 90 to 103. Total catalog sales fell from 40,112 to 22,498. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:43:20 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama In a message dated 5/9/00 10:27:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << "To say 'Hopefully I'll be on tomorrow's train' is to talk nonsense. Do you mean that you will be on the train in a hopeful frame of mind? Or that it is your intention to be on the train in 24 hours? Whichever it is you haven't said it plainly." >> Coyote Adds: I can't take *exactly*. Some early AM newscaster says exactly after every line uttered by his airhead co-anchor. Like there was a chance she was wrong. SheSaid: Well, today should be a typical LA day, 82 downtown, 91 in the Valleys. He Said: Exactly. And here's Martha with the entertainment report. I even wrote the station after he said exactly, exactly 23 times in 18 minutes of airtime. He still does it! No regrets (now that I watch a different station), Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:47:50 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in FL tickets available! In a message dated 5/9/00 2:52:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, debbyis@Prodigy.net writes: << Hey everyone! It's been awhile since I've written ... but I've been following the flow :~) Anyway, I have a pair of 5th Row seats for Joni in West Palm Beach, FL on 5/17 (a week from tomorrow)! I am NOT going to be able to use these tickets and am putting them up for sale for cost. I can't believe I can't go and I just don't want to be out that money, too. They are GREAT seats and I'm sure that someone would love to use them. >> Similarly, I have decided to send my pair of tickets to the West Palm Beach show to me new stepmother for Mother's Day. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:51:42 GMT From: "Madell S" Subject: Favorite Careers Hi- Here's a list of some of the artists whose careers I've been following for a few years. Mary Chapin Carpenter-I've been listening to her since I was 10 and she's been my favorite singer since then. I never really listened to music until I began listening to her. My faves are "Jubilee" "John Doe #24" and "Why Walk When You Can Fly". Shawn Colvin-Discovered her music through MCC. Love especially "If I Were Brave" and "Monopoly". Indigo Girls-Love all of their music. They write such inspring lyrics. "Virginia Woolf" and "Closer to Fine" are some of my faves. Natalie Merchant-Enjoyed her from the 10,000 Maniacs days. Didn't really think much of her until "Wonder" came out and I became a fan then. Other artists that I've recently discovered: Dar Williams, Lucy Kaplansky, Cheryl Wheeler, Kate Rusby, Bob Dylan, Catie Curtis, Susan Werner, Solas and of course Joni Mitchell. :-) - -Madeline NP:John Coltrane "Lush Life"--One of my teachers mentioned this song earlier in the year and I LOVE it! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:56:00 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for Going Controversy(NJC) In a message dated 5/9/00 12:58:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Can't name names but one sold a classic top hit for a famous R&B artist that still gets a lot of airplay. He received $30,000 for it and gave up all rights to future royalties. >> I met the very nice man who wrote Spooky, originally done by the Classics IV, I believe and later done by Atlanta Rhythm Section. His name is Harry Middlebrooks and still does a lounge act around LA and the Big Valley. He said that sweet little song is funding his retirement nicely and is darn glad he never sold rights to future royalties. No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:09:58 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: RE: Patti Smith (NJC) Vanessa wrote: >I can't answer your drug question but in regards to Patti Smith, I was given her >text. In it she discusses her songs and her writing process. When she undertakes >to write a song, she spends weeks researching the topic on which she wishes to >write. It's fascinating, she's very intelligent and a very knowledgeable. Her >lyrics are very rich and layered and I think the 'research' is a direct result of >that. I highly recommend this book to all Patti fans. > >You can't help but assume that most 'musicians' have at least tried mind altering >substances whether it be drugs or alcohol. Thanks for this Vanessa, i'll keep my eyes open for it! Sounds like it would make for some really great reading!! as i mentioned, i only stumbled across Patti Smith recently. and at the moment she is the artist i am listening to most (besides Joni of course). i have only got two of her albums- Gung Ho and Horses, both of which i really love. Horses more so, perhaps. Can you recommend what i should go for next? i really am quite clueless whenit comes to Patti Smith. reading the liner notes in Todd Rundgrens Something/Anything album i noticed that he wrote of "Song of the Viking": "Written in the feverish grip of hte dreaded "d'oyle carte", a chronic disease dating back to my youth. Dedicated to Miss Patti Lee Smith" Could this be the same woman? GARRET (still three digests behind) NP- Tori Amos- American Pie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:18:21 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: BSN covered I have a vague memory of hearing Vonda Shepard singing Both Sides Now in an episode of Ally McBeal. I know i wasn't imagining it! the piece played in the episode did sound quite promising. i wonder if anyone else heard (tell me i wasn't dreaming!!), and more importantly....if it was in the show, there must be a recorded version of it somewhere. Also, i remember reading on the list that Courtney Love and Hole covered teh same song on Pretty on the Inside. i have this album years. I was wondering if Bob had gotten a copy of this song and decided not to put it on to the covers collection or if he never got his hands on a copy (if not, let me know....). to be honest, i wouldn't say that they cover the song though, no, I'd say that they vandalise it. (and i am a Hole fan) GARRET NP- Tori Amos- Cornflake Girl Live ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:18:12 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Donna Summer (NJC) Please let me redeem myself for my unintentional slam against disco. Earlier I wrote: 4. Donna Summer: A very talented singer/songwriter/painter IMO. She sold out to disco - obliterated her image and thus, the rest of her career. I wonder what would have happened had she taken a different career path? She should have studied the career of Miss Ross (discreet forays into disco, but didn't sleep there). She'd still be filling the Hollywood Bowl. I didn't mean to dismiss disco music or the disco era. Heck, I lived smack in the middle of it (gay boy, you know) and still have the Angel Flight suit, Adidas, LaCoste (sp?) shirts and platform shoes as relics. What I meant was her early career was exclusively disco music (SIQUO Disco), which many (not myself) later dismissed as fluff and her career as well. She has said that herself on many occasions. And Colin was right, she did try to make the change, but it was too late - she was SIQUOD and that was that. IMO she was a total victim (and poster girl) of the Disco Sucks mindset. That is a shame, since she is far more talented than that and is on (at least) my top five list. I think the only music she could get recorded after many failed attempts at mainline pop was gospel music and did a wonderful job on those recordings. No regrets (except not being more careful), Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:23:09 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: One Ticket for the Boston Show I have one extra ticket for the Boston show, May 28th. It's Section 2, (Center) Row 12. Please e-mail me privately if you are interested. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:57:52 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: RE: Patti Smith (NJC) On Wed, 10 May 2000, Garret wrote: > Thanks for this Vanessa, i'll keep my eyes open for it! Sounds like it > would make for some really great reading!! It's excellent, and puts Joni's "Complete" poems and lyrics book to shame. > have only got two of her albums- Gung Ho and Horses, both of which i really > love. Horses more so, perhaps. Can you recommend what i should go for > next? i really am quite clueless whenit comes to Patti Smith. I've just started listening to _Gung Ho_ after having it for weeks. It's phenomenal. "Glitter in Their Eyes" is so new-wavey, unlike anything I ever expected to leave Patti's mouth. So much of her work is great. _Easter_ is perhaps her most commercial (a highly relative term WRT Patti), and includes the phenomenal "Rock 'n' Roll N**ger," among others. For her post-comeback work, start with _Gone Again_, a mostly downtempo and contemplative record. > liner notes in Todd Rundgrens Something/Anything album i noticed that he > wrote of "Song of the Viking": > "Written in the feverish grip of hte dreaded "d'oyle carte", a chronic > disease dating back to my youth. Dedicated to Miss Patti Lee Smith" > Could this be the same woman? Indeed it is. If I remember correctly, he produced _Horses_, with much disagreement between him and the band over the desired sound. - --Michael NP: Toni Braxton, "Why Should I Care" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:07:47 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: RE: Patti Smith (NJC) On Tue, 9 May 2000, michael w yarbrough wrote: > > liner notes in Todd Rundgrens Something/Anything album i noticed that he > > wrote of "Song of the Viking": > > "Written in the feverish grip of hte dreaded "d'oyle carte", a chronic > > disease dating back to my youth. Dedicated to Miss Patti Lee Smith" > > Could this be the same woman? > Indeed it is. If I remember correctly, he produced _Horses_, with much > disagreement between him and the band over the desired sound. That was John Cale (of the Velvet Underground) who produced _Horses_; but I seem to remember that Rundgren produced one of Patti's other albums, maybe _Easter_? - --David, another big Patti Smith fan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:56:46 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Concord show Through the very, very, very gracious offer of Mr. Rich Neuwith, I'm going to the May 13th show in the Bay Area. Granted, it was a tough toss up. Saturday is also the first full day of the UCD Whole Earth Festival, (Mr. Date; please note my penchant for messing around with words) and I equivocated for a full 5 or 6 seconds over Joni or tie dye....Joni or tie dye. Having made my choice, (Joni, natch), I'm now wondering what I may have missed vis a vis Bay Area pre-show gathering announcements. I know we have the Mixons, Mark, Rich, Darice and now me! Fill me in please! MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 21:07:18 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Concord show In a message dated 5/9/00 8:59:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << Having made my choice, (Joni, natch), I'm now wondering what I may have missed vis a vis Bay Area pre-show gathering announcements. I know we have the Mixons, Mark, Rich, Darice and now me! Fill me in please! MG >> You all should meet for drinks and dinner at the Benihana's in Concord. There are only a few ogther restaurants worthwhile, and I didn't get the feeling you folks were Marie Callendar's types. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:04:26 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: RE: Patti Smith (NJC) Going to correct myself here: > That was John Cale (of the Velvet Underground) who produced > _Horses_; but I seem to remember that Rundgren produced one of Patti's > other albums, maybe _Easter_? Nope, it was (the erstwhile) _Wave_. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:19:23 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: who i love musically besides Joni.... njc this is a fantastic challenge...I have a bit of a long list..i just spontaneously went through my cd collection and picked out some major faves. There are more but this is a good start. Quite the variety, so I discovered. not necessarily in any order...that would be way too hard to do! harry chapin-taxi dan fogelberg-the innocent age dave bradstreet-renaissance U2-best of U2 1980-1990) i love u2 :) rem (ok so i dont own any but i sure do like them alot) tracy chapman wyrd sisters emm gryner cowboy junkies-lay it down james taylor gordon lightfoot natalie merchant-live in nyc zoebliss pink floyd-dark side of the moon miles davis-in a silent way stan getz paul desmond bobby mcferrin-medicine music-tune-common threads/this was the tune playing in the background on that documentary about that massive aids quilt placed in washington d.c. (major bawl fest that is!) santana-barboletta-magnificent natural sounds gorecki symphony no3. contemporary polish composer...soul touching work which speaks about the holocaust. (shivers and then some) dave matthews -crash- song - two step-*sigh* annie lennox/eurythmics-peace-here comes the rain again etc sheila chandra-ever so lonely/eyes/ocean phil collins-face value loreena mckennitt-book of secrets (includes a dante poem to die for) aaron copeland-appalachian spring holst-the planets chase sanborn-good to the last bop rickie lee jones-the magazine bob marley and the wailers-legend tori amos ani defranco stan rogers-fogerty cove portishead-dummy johnny lang - lie to me - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #242 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?