From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #241 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 9 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 241 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) ["Kakki" ] L.A. Show and Parties ["Kakki" ] Re: Please Help ! (SJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: L.A. Show and Parties [LasaterJ@aol.com] Re: advice? [philipf@tinet.ie] Favorite Careers 2 ["James L. Leonard" ] Joni Imports: Bob [Matt Jones ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) ["Vadim Litvin" ] Re: Joni Imports? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Urge for controversy ["Victor Johnson" ] NJC - Tapestry ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Joni Imports: Bob ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] NJC Ben Taylor ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Joni Tickets - Boston [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Joni on Leno Scratched??? ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Joni Imports: Bob [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] lyrics (njc) [Anne Sandstrom ] Rare Joni Is Free ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Urge for controversy - kinda long ["P. Henry" ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Thanks to all of you Beautiful People [catman ] Re: The committment to education (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama [Don Rowe ] Favorite Careers (Rationale) ["James L. Leonard" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:31:23 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) Helen wrote: > My favourites are: > Shona Laing - a Kiwi singer-songwriter, who also spent >some time in the 70's/80's as a vocalist for Manfred Mann's >Earth Band. She is a truly gifted song-writer, and very, very >close to being on the same level as Joni, as far as I'm >concerned. Albums - 7 (100%) Listen to Helen, kids. I heard a whole side of Shona tonight and fell instantly in love with her music. I'm now listening to more of Jacqui Fitzgerald and this music is just top rate. Good lord, there's some incredible music being incubated in NZ that they're keeping from us! And I have to admit I'm amazed at the album quantities here: > CSN - I've always loved these guys - I'm a sucker for good >harmony, but I must admit, I prefer their earlier work. >Albums - 47 - honestly - (100% - collectively and individually, >and including Buffalo Springfield, but not > Byrds or Hollies). I am not worthy. I think Helen just stole the all-time music slut tiara! Kakki - next quest - NZ music at Tower on Sunset ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 01:03:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: L.A. Show and Parties I'm starting to hear from last minute surprise guests for our Joni concert party this Friday! Yay! If anyone else is planning to be at the L.A. show and wants to party with the group, please let me know soon so I can fill you in on details before I go into Joni zone ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:46:51 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Please Help ! (SJC) Could I please get a few people to test my Creative Writing web site before *Thursday*. Just spend ten minutes or so playing with it and see what you think. Some of the backgrounds I've created for Joni's lyrics are simply stunning if you can set your display to "True Color" (Millions of Colors, 32 bit color depending on your machine) The addresses for the two sites are: http://users.bigpond.com/AlanLorimer/ For the site in Australia, and http://jonimitchell.homestead.com/files/ For the site in North America. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 05:38:14 EDT From: LasaterJ@aol.com Subject: Re: L.A. Show and Parties JMDLers: I'm one of the last minute guests to which Kakki refers. I don't think I'll be able to make it New Orleans, so I look forward to a chance to get together with some familiar (Kakki, Paz, others?) and unfamiliar faces in LA. I booked my flight to Los Angeles after most of the good tickets for the May 12 show had already been taken, but a very kind JMDLer (Cecilia) has offered me a chance to buy one of her extras, so, I'm on my way.... Does anyone know any of the details of the setlist for the BSN tour? Will any of the musicians who played with Joni last time around (Larry, Brian Blade, etc.) be taking part in these shows? Will Joni be playing guitar and/or piano, or just torching it up in her evening gown? Delirious with excitement (and awake at 5:30 am) in North Carolina, - -John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:06:51 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: advice? Mark Domyancich wrote > My choice would be Court and Spark I agree, this would be a great place to start. There's not a single weak point on the record and it combines the earlier introspection with some beautiful playing by Tom Scott and the band. I've come back to Court and Spark a lot lately and it really has some great production details like the "didn't it feel good" refrain on Help Me, the multi guitar into to Peoples Parties, Tom Scott sounding like a passing car on Car On A Hill, Guerin marking off beats like passing telegraph poles on Just Like This Train etc. It was quite a startling thing at the time to hear Joni Mitchell doing rock and jazz for the first time. Joni and Tom Scott were a great team and for me Court and Spark and it's live sister Miles Of Aisles are superior to the uneven and over rated Hejira /Shadows and Light combo. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 06:39:53 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Favorite Careers 2 Thanks to everyone who's thusfar answered my query as to your favorite careers. Please keep those cards and letters comin' in, you folks who haven't shared yours yet. I'm planning to write a longer post about my list, on which I inadvertently left out Paul Simon. I should also have included Duke Ellington. "Haste makes waste." Including Joni this time, here's my list again: Eric Clapton, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, Duke Ellington, Pat Metheny, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Paul Simon, and Neil Young. "Boston Jim" NP: Pat Metheny Group, Imaginary Day, "Across The Sky" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 06:52:21 -0400 From: Matt Jones Subject: Joni Imports: Bob Hey, I am writing in response to Bob's offer to provide copies of Joni bootlegs. I'd love to get a copy, if I can. Please let me know how much! Also, I've emailed a guy who has soundboards and various other vintage Joni concerts in his collection and he offered to make me a copy of a show in Temple (??) Pennsylvania for 30 bucks. Is that worthwhile? I'm new to the whole bootleg side of things, but I agree that they should not be sold in stores since the artist does not get a part of the profit. Also, I just bought my first Carly Simon CD, the best of..., and was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a second buy. thanks matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:41:12 +0300 From: "Vadim Litvin" Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) Jim wrote: >I'd be interested in learning which recording artists are list members' >favorites (after Joni, of course), and whose careers have been studied with >as much (or, *almost* as much) interest. > >Please list your top five or ten, and, if you're so inclined, write a little >rationale after each artist. My CD collection's favourites are: Bonnie Tyler Pretenders Nazareth Patti Smith Toyah Willcox Pixies B-52's Blondie Kate Bush Propaganda/Claudia Brucken Alice Cooper Eloy Nina Hagen Human League Joan Jett & the Blackhearts Lene Lovich Lush Klaus Nomi Saint Etienne Shocking Blue Siouxsie & the Banshees Smiths Cindy Lauper Sandie Shaw and Giorgio Moroder Donna Summer Cerrone Dee D. Jackson Ganymed Rockets (French) etc. Do you think I am crazy? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:22:36 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni Imports? kerry wrote: > I was in a local record store yesterday and they had 3 Joni CD's I had never > seen before. They were labeled as imports and titled "Joni Mitchell - > unplugged and jammin,'" or something like that. It looked like they had a > lot of live stuff, including she and James Taylor on the BBC. They were > labeled vol.s 1,2 & 3. Does anyone know anything about them? Are they > worth getting? They were $25 each, so I'll have to take out a second > mortgage on the house!!!!! Imports is a polite euphemism for rip-off bootlegs. Someone OTHER than Joni is making a lot of money off these. Most are part of the Tape Trees in much higher audio quality. Save your money and trade with a list member. Jerry np: Ricker Lee Jone - Girl at Her Volcano ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:37:53 -0400 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Urge for controversy An interesting note to add to this controversy: Everybody is probably familiar with the James Taylor song, "Shower the People." This was in fact not written by James Taylor. It was written by an unknown songwriter who sold all rights to the publisher for a flat sum. It then became the publisher's song to do with as they saw fit. So it is not that unlikely of an occurance that Joni could have done the same thing. Victor http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:27:16 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: NJC - Tapestry <> Well, let's put it this way: 1. Phyliss sent me her Tapestry CD so I could do a digi-dub of "Tomorrow" for Covers, Volume 3... 2. I have a CD burner. Like Dylan says, "you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..." ;~) Bob NP: Miles Davis, "Pharoah's Dance" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:43:23 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: Joni Imports: Bob <> It's a wonderful show, Matt - it was a part of Tape Tree 6 or 7, it's her '74 show at Temple University in Ambler PA. I'll be glad to hook you and/or anyone up with it, as well as the others I have in my collection, for blanks & postage. The guy who's making you this $30 "deal" is using you for a Door-"Matt"! Just this last weekend I put together a list of the concerts, Interviews, Tributes, and misc. Joni on tape & CD that I have, I'll be glad to forward a copy to you. I'm currently making CD's for Jim Leonard, Bev Wolfe, Steve Polifka, and probably some more that show up in the mail today. Not for profit, purely for sharing the joy of this music - many other JMDLer's feel the same way and share the music too! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:48:01 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: NJC Ben Taylor Hell said of Ben Taylor: <> I'm thinking...big lips and bald head, and it's NOT a pretty sight! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:02:42 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Joni Tickets - Boston Hi everyone. I really hate to do this, but based on my chemo schedule, I don't think I'll be able to go to Joni's Boston show. After two rounds of chemo now, I have to say there wasn't a single evening when I would have had the energy. I'll have to look and see just where the tickets are ( what row, etc...) If you think you might be interested, please let me know. They'll be my gift to whoever can use them. sigh... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 06:07:10 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Joni on Leno Scratched??? I, too, switched from Leno to Hanson on Letterman. It occured to me that like 'em or not, they are pretty talented. That was the second song that I have heard from their new album, and I am unashamed to say that I am going to stop on the way home from work and buy the CD. This makes me think of the recent thread on boy-bands...who have absolutely nothing on Hanson. Backstreet Boys, N-Sync, etc. are overproduced to the point of muzak-level musical quality, and are basically way over-glorifed barbershop quartets. IMHO, of course. :) I admit that I flipped the channel after the first chorus of whoever it was on Leno, but it was a touch decision. My GAWD he was cute! Reuben "Take that stuff off, Henry, there's a dear. You can't go to dinner dressed like that. You know nylon brings you out in a rash!" Bette Davis "The Anniversary" "Sometimes you have to be a little Dallas." Cara Reedy >From: Vince Lavieri >If Joni doesn't show up on Leno then we are free to watch Hanson on Dave >Letterman tonight!!!!! :-) (the Rev) Vince (who would rather see Joni, but would also rather watch >24 hours of Hanson rather than one hour of Leno) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:14:00 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Imports: Bob In a message dated 5/9/00 3:59:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, musicmat@earthlink.net writes: << Also, I just bought my first Carly Simon CD, the best of..., and was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a second buy. Coyote Suggests: My all-time favorites are Hotcakes and Another Passenger (At time When My Head is amazing). I hopped off the Carly ship after the latter, but may be listening to some new tapes in my bedroom, thanks to Colin. No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:11:28 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: lyrics (njc) Just thought I'd share some more lyrics... YOU NEVER KNOW I'm walking wall to wall While the time crawls Til you call again My heart is bruised With this new love Aching to begin I might look alone darling But you seem so close You hold me like a ghost But you never know I round the river bend Tangled in traffic webs Your voice humming in my head Coming in so clear Til static interferes Scrambling what you said I might look alone darling But you seem so close You hold me like a ghost But you never know When day and darkness fuse And dreams resume In my hollow room I wonder where you are Under these same stars And if you're dreaming too I might look alone darling But you seem so close You hold me like a ghost But you never know You never know Copyright (c) 1992, Anne Sandstrom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:21:36 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" Subject: Rare Joni Is Free Kerry, If you have a cassette deck, you have available, free, more than a dozen free performances and interviews free from her coffeehouse days all the way through the TNT Tribute. Did I mention that it's free? :) All you have to do is send a nice note, blank tapes, and return postage. It's run by a labor of love. I think of it as a ministry. (!) Write to me for details. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:23:13 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: The sad tale of my BSN SE (NJC) The first copy of my long awaited special edition BSN arrived on Feb 23rd from CDNow. As anticipated, after reading of listers' experiences, the disc had come loose in transit and was badly scratched. After a number of e-mails in which CDNow didn't really seem to appreciate the cost of sending back a large package from the UK or the problem of import charges, they agreed to send me a replacement. Unfortunately, though, the product was on back order, which didn't bother me too much as, by then I had purchased a pristine regular copy and I understood that the packaging problems were being ironed out. Two and a half months later the new package arrived. This time the disc was secure in it's housing but, surprisingly, was even more badly scratched than the first copy and is quite unplayable. What is going on here Reprise? The problem doesn't seem to be related to the packaging at all. I've contacted CDNow again and all they say is send it back which isn't helpful but I guess it's not their fault. Disappointed again, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:34:55 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Ben Taylor coming out with debut album (NJC) Hi Hell, Yes, I heard him too..........Howard Stern had Carly Simon on his show (probably a year ago this was) and she played a CD song of hers where he sang background. She kept telling Howard to be quite so she could hear her son's part in the song. It was funny! I swore he sounded just like James! If I didn't know it was him I'd swear it was James Taylor. I remember Carly sang on another show where Ben sang back-up and then she introduced him. He was rather timid but again.......even his looks was a dead ringer for daddy! It was sweet to see tho, how very affectionate Carly was with him. She really adored him! He seemed a little embarassed with her gushing over him.....but it was very sweet. Her daughter Sally has appeared in Chicago a couple of times at Shuba's. Haven't heard her voice at all yet altho I know she has an album or two out that can be purchased thru her website, and she's been touring the US with her band playing in small clubs. Laura "Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > Laura wrote: > > >Here's something else I found while > >looking around for info on Larry. > > > >Ben Taylor (James & Carly's son) > >will be coming out with > >his debut album soon. > > I saw Ben Taylor in a TV news item a few years ago - 1994 if I remember > correctly - when he had written a song (or several songs) for a movie > soundtrack - can't remember what movie, though. He looked exactly like both > his parents - can't explain it any better than that - but sounded exactly > like his father! He also said he wasn't at all interested in a career in > the music industry, unless it was behind the scenes (like the movie-score). > I guess he changed his mind! But with that sort of "pedigree" it would be a > shame not to share it with the world! I know I was impressed with the > little I heard. > > Hell > _______________________________ > "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with > available extremes" - Carole King > > hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:49:43 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) In a message dated 5/8/00 9:25:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, alisone@kirkhams.com writes: << I'd be interested in learning which recording artists are list members' >favorites (after Joni, of course), and whose careers have been studied with >as much (or, *almost* as much) interest. >> Okay, here are my five all time tops after JM. I don't know anywhere near as much about them as I (now) do JM, but they are important to me nonetheless. 1. Todd Rundgren: Have all his stuff. To me, Joni in drag. Nuff said. Old Todd, new Todd, keep goin' Todd. 2. Chris Issak: Have all his stuff as well, especially like Baja Sessions. What a voice and so easy to look at. Anyone reminded of a pretty Roy Orbison? 3. Dionne Warwick: Fell in love with her Promises, Promises as a budding lad (scaring my parents when I stacked Dionne Warwick and Monkees albums together on the Mediterranean console stereo) and think her more recent Brazilian CD is awesome. OK, OK, (Clark) we have to forgive her psychic thing. And what was that rap thing she tried a year or so ago? She never ceases to surprise me, but has taken some bad career turns. A very classy lady, with a pleasing voice and some bad luck. She can still fill the Hollywood Bowl. 4. Donna Summer: A very talented singer/songwriter/painter IMO. She sold out to disco - obliterated her image and thus, the rest of her career. I wonder what would have happened had she taken a different career path? She should have studied the career of Miss Ross (discreet forays into disco, but didn't sleep there). She'd still be filling the Hollywood Bowl. 5. Harry Connick, Jr.: This southern boy's blues and jazz can make me swoon like a 14 year old at a 98 Degrees concert (sorry for the slip back to the boy bands thread). Was especially impressed when he was asked to name his favorite possession and he replied, "My wedding ring." No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:39:59 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" Subject: Free Joni On Tape To learn about getting free Joni Appearances on Tape, go to: http://216.247.66.89/trading/index.cfm You'll find info on the tape trees. These are collections of joni interviews and performances. Then there are the Video Trees of tv appearances, also available free. If anyone has interesting Joni material for the JMDL community, let's talk! I'm especially looking for a complete PAL version of the BBC concert video with Joni and James in 1970, and the demos of the Mingus session that included the _original_ band. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:14:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) - --- "James L. Leonard" wrote: > I'd be interested in learning which recording > artists are list members' > favorites (after Joni, of course), and whose careers > have been studied with > as much (or, *almost* as much) interest. > This is a hard one. There are a number of artists who ranked very highly with me at one time but who didn't necessarily stay around. I've had to give this some time to think about, and a quick view of my record/tape/CD collection gathered over the years and, in some cases, gathering dust. No one - but no one - measures up to Joni in my estimation; however, here, in no particular order are some artists whose work I have enjoyed through the years: - - Pat Metheny - - Eric Clapton (his blues stuff and his work with "Cream", but not the schlocky stuff like "Wonderful tonight" <> - - Bonnie Raitt - - Veronique Sanson (she's French, but there are a lot of Joni similarities - they're both blonde (?!), they both had a childhood illness (Joni, polio; Veronique, I think she had TB); they're both singer/songwriters with a prodigious output; Veronique was, at one time, married to (or equivalent thereof) Stephen Stills; Veronique's main medium is piano, with guitar being secondary, whereas with Joni, it's more the other way 'round. - - Michael Franks - - Paul Simon (with or without Garfunkel) - - pretty much anything that's classical guitar - - Ella Fitzgerald - - Jonatha Brooke (new addition, thanks to frequent mention here on the list!) - - Cat Stevens (too bad he decided to give up singing and writing - it isn't actually *against* the Muslim religion, is it? I have friends who are Muslim who were in a rock band in Pakistan years ago, so what's up with that? and the fundamentalist kind of behaviour?) - - Van Morrison and you know, there may be more, but that's enough for now, isn't it... ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:30:59 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Urge for controversy - kinda long les, my apologies for reponding SO late on this... my life has gotten so I have to make an appointment with myself, once a week if all goes well, believe it or not, to sit down and read through the digests. the posts from catgirl's list get my attention a lot quicker because I can't afford to leave 300K emails in my online inbox because it's so full, if I don't get them deleted right away my incoming mail will start getting blocked. I remember when you asked me about this before and, while I wasn't a listmember at the time, I can imagine the outcry at such a claim... and in fact, your post helps me to understand some of the reactions to me when I joined the list. (and my 'outlandish claims', which, of course I still stand by as being completely true) being so late on this and not having seen any other responses, I'm sure this has been well mulled already, but here's my take on it nonetheless: not a chance, bro! musically, while I have to agree that it is different in that it was (yes, I admit I was dead wrong on this *major blush* which I now realize thanks to my new guitar. (my 'version' to be posted soon gang)) written in standard tuning, in my mind it is still very much, in terms of chord phrasing as well as 'melodic flow' a *signature* Joni Mitchell song! UFG is really very similar to TCG IMHO, in fact, I could almost picture the two songs being intermixed in sort of a call and response... 'yesterday a child came out to wander... I awoke today to find the frost perched on the town...' ah, but then, I do have strange musical ideas... ;o) financially, I'd have to ask, where, fer pete's sake', would she get the money?! take a good look at the 'mod city living' article in your own database. living in an inner-city, fix-em-up, $70/mo, 5th floor apartment when both were working doesn't exactly inmply that the bucks were rolling in... (though I'm not sure if she wrote it before or after she met Chuck and came to the states) I can tell you that playing coffeehouses in those days wasn't exactly lucrative, witness the ad I posted where the cover charge was $1.25 a head (Dec.'66) to see Joni in a room that could hold about 60-75, SRO. http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/pic4.html it's been a long time and brian moss would know better than I but I think we paid about $50/night to Joni on some of her gigs and maybe it went up as high as $100. even the Raven, which was the folk classiest venue in those days, only paid about $150+ a % of refreshments... I really don't see Joni as having those kind of bucks to go out and 'buy a song' from someone. last but not least, as I have said numerous times in the past, and I *know* bri and cul would recall this also, Joni always, everytime she played it onstage, was drawing special attention to UFG as being her personal favorite song *that she ever wrote*! I remember the night she came in all excited like a little girl, literally jumping up and down, and came running over to me to present me with a copy of a 45rpm single by George Hamilton IV doing Urge. I think this was the first vinyl for national distribution of a song of hers... on capitol or rca maybe... I know it had a black label. (I think at this point Tom Rush was still circulating his recordings in the local Boston area and to radio stations in some areas, (philly for example) but not yet as a 'release') Joni was really proud that her song had been recorded and just beamed... I think this was the first time she ever hugged me. :o) so, bottom line, I just don't see it... I don't know if this woman's dad was 'full of crap' or maybe just exagerating a little to impress his little girl, but, based on my experience, I can't come to any other conclusion than that Joni Mitchell wrote Urge For Going, and very, very well indeed as a matter of fact! pat NP: take a wild guess... ;o) les wrote: Joniphiles - Long time listers may remember the brief appearance a few years ago of a woman who delurked and innocently proclaimed that "her father wrote the song 'Urge For Going' and sold it to Joni". Needless to say, she was met with considerable derision and never posted again. I've often thought about her claim and wondered. Urge for Going has always seemed to me to be an "odd" Joni song. The chord structure and the melodic flow seem to be unlike anything else she was doing at the time. Certainly, it wasn't uncommon to "lift" melodies from other sources - I'm probably wrong, but I don't think Dylan wrote an original melody until 1964. On the other hand, why would Joni be "purchasing" a song at a time when her creativity was overflowing? The wealth of as-yet-unreleased songs she wrote during that period certainly sheds huge doubt on this claim. Could be that Joni just fell in love with the song and "had to have it". Or, could be that this woman's father is full of crap and the song is indeed 100% Joni's. Thoughts anyone? Pat... Cul... you were both there during that time, no? Any insight? Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:33:33 EDT From: Treehuggergirl25@aol.com Subject: Re: Thanks to all of you Beautiful People you know, this is the first mailing list that i've ever been on in my life that i actually enjoy. i like it a lot. it's not a million emails insulting each other and saying stupid things......thank you all for filling up my inbox! - -angela ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:46:03 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) If I was to actually rank my favorite artists it would take a very long story to fully explain each one. Some of the content of the justification would be my personal experience or what their songs meant personally to me. But having said that it would have to be as follows for the top five: First the non-finalist Honorable Mentions : Zepplin, Peter Gabriel, Emmylou Harris, Dave Edmunds, Jeff Beck, Roxy Music, Amazing Rhythm Aces, Jimi Hendrix, CSNY, Bert Jansch, Iona Brown, Luciano Pavrotti, Van Morrison, Bob Dylan, Pete Seeger, Leo Khottke, Mac Rebenac, Stevie Wonder, Charlie Christian, Robert Johnson, KD Lang's pants. 5) Fleetwood mac : Not the single band but the composite band throughout the years. From raw blues to some of the sweetest pop ever. From Peter Green's "Jumping at Shadows" my favorite blues song of all time to Bare Trees, Heroes are Hard to Find, Christine McVie (sigh what a babe what a voice) To Danny Kirwin to Bob Welch, to Lindsey and Steevie and the entire time the best Rhythm section in the land. Album after Album. 4) The Beatles: Best songwriters of all time IMHO. Groundbreaking stuff with each new album. Probably more standards than any other two bands in recent history. Not to mention George Harrisons All Things Must Pass and the Lennon Collection as well as Paul MacCartneys stuff which played live was twice as good as the way it was produced. I never saw the Beatles but did see Paul twice and that was enough to convince me that he and John had two of the most special voices in the history of music. The Beatles were not intellectual lightweights either as most band members and artists are. I think the one thing recently which truly demonstrated how remarkable their songwriting was was the fact that they took an old unreleased track of Johns and turned it into a number one song. How many dead people have a hit ? Their Production itself was revolutionary and without them you can scratch off the existence of about a hundred bands that were huge because without them they would never have thought themselves up. THOSE bands will admit that which they do in VH-1 interviews. 3) Ry Cooder - I have always said that if I had one last show to see before blowing off the face of the planet it would be Ry Cooder in a small club. Simply because no sound seems to be as deep in my soul as the sound of Delta Blues. Ry is the best slide player in history and not just in my humble opinion. Ive seen him and many other slide players including Clapton, Jeremy Spencer, Bonnie Raite, Allman, and I could go on and Ry smokes them all. I have always loved his eclectic sets and his music is so tasty I can never ever get enough no matter how many times Ive seen him. 2) Joni Mitchell - Jonis another who bridges so many parts of my life and past and musical development. In preparing for the upcoming Pazfest Ive gotten back into playing and going through old songlists from clubs I played and it struck me how long I had been doing her songs etc and Joni has a spirit in her music that literally spans generations. Shes like the rosetta stone of pop and the folk music that preceeded it. Some might think Im taking the cheap lay down Joni prop but Im not. I dont have to tell anyone on this list what she means to all of us but I would absolutely have to place her in my top five on the merits. 1) Peter Townshend : There never was anything like The Who. Not even the Stones as far as performance goes. Roger twirling and throwing the Mic catching it in perfect time with the next verse. John Entwhistle maybe the best bass player ever in Rock whos Bass solo on My Generation is still among the top 5 bass solos of all time. Keith Moon whos histrionics and performance was unparallelled among all drummers AND his playing was not excelled by anyone either. He would take his drumstick and hit it down hard and the stick would rocket up at least 40-50 feet into the air and then come back down right into his hands in perfect time for the next verse to begin. Never seen anyone else do that. Then there is Peter. Named my son's middle name after him because he was so special to my musical awareness and my life. The guy who invented and made "air guitar" possible for millions. They are all trying to imitate the performance things that Pete introduced to the world of rock'n roll. I saw him years ago when he was young literally take a flying leap clear across the stage , maybe 20 feet, and land on his knees in perfect timing with the power chords in Summertime Blues. This stunt is actually depicted in the movie The Kids Are All Right. I know of no other performance trick anyone else has ever done that comes close. Did this WHILE playing great guitar. His voice was unique as well. But with Pete there has always been more. His innovations abound from The Opera to Quadropheneia to more recently doing plays, books etc. And lastly he has been the quintessential spokesperson for the modern rock era but at the same time has always given props to the roots of rock itself all the way back to olde English folk music. Crediting many along the way. Rarely himself. Final final he has always been a pragmatist about the philosophical limits of Rock N Roll and his anthem Wont get Fooled Again and Cry if you Want say many things that the ofttimes tunnell visioned politically correct in the rock world just never comprehended. Rock music does have limits and noone describes better where it ends and real life begins.He's my ultimate hero. Hes a better guitar player now than he used to be as well. My coda to this opinion is that over the years I saw about 20 Who performances. Several times went all three or four nights in a row. Several during the early "destroy the instruments" phase in the 60's. There was no band ever including the Beatles or Stones who could ever follow their act which in and of itself is saying something. After watching them do My Generation and totally destroy the stage and everything on it there wasn't one chirp for "encore", you went home deaf. It was teenage heaven.....or wasteland as Pete so aptly named it. There hasnt been a band since who could top that, not even the so called punks and thrash metal bands. Pete assuredly went through his phase of drunken decadence but hes still married to the same woman after all these years or decades. If I could have dinner with one person it would be him. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:50:42 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: The committment to education (NJC) [Map Source: White House] EDUCATIONAL MAP RELEASED BY WHITE HOUSE SHOWS STATES IN WRONG LOCATIONS School's Out For Summer! A map of the United States of America featured on the White House's official website shows the state of Kentucky occupying what is commonly known as Tennessee. President Clinton's 'School Reform Tour' is outlined in a map featured at http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/New/Education_Tour. One stop on the tour, Owensboro, Kentucky, is shown in a location that falls in the great state of Tennessee -- the home of Vice President Gore! White House officials scrambled to remove the map late Monday night. "There is no one from the web development team working at this hour who can fix the map!" one embarrassed official explained. [The map was updated to reflect correct geography late Tuesday morning.] The website declares: 'President Clinton and Vice President Gore: An Unprecedented Commitment to Education... dramatically increasing accountability.' [marcel's note] At least they didnt misspell potato. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:19:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: >KD Lang's pants Bwa-ha-ha! I betcha thought no one would notice *that*! (Tres amusant) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:29:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) > --- "James L. Leonard" wrote: > > I'd be interested in learning which recording > > artists are list members' > > favorites (after Joni, of course) First of all, I'm back -- thanks for noticing! Ha-ha. I agree with Catherine that this is a thorny question ... which for me, at least, changes quite a bit, and just as soon as I want to mention one artist or band, I can think of 10 I've left out. But there are a few "northern stars" out there ... in no particular order: The FIXX -- Not as "Rushy" as Rush, nor as obtuse as King Crimson, Cy Curnin, Jamie West-Oram, Rupert Greenhall and Co. have consistently put out some of the most unique post-New Wave rock/pop out there ... most of which nobody ever heard past the mega-hits "One Thing Leads To Another" and "Red Skies". Stevie Wonder -- I think we all know why ... The Smiths -- Morrisey and Marr are just about single-handedly responsible, I think, for the re-invention of the British pop sound. Some of the greatest guitar playing you'll ever hear, and a brilliantly mopey lyrical style that keeps you wondering just how seriously to take it -- or not -- keeps this band near to me. Frankie Goes To Hollywood -- Live fast, die young and leave a good-lookin' corpse. For those who don't know, Trevor Horn took this thrash-punk act, and turned them into one of the greatest power-pop bands of recent memory. "Welcome To The Pleasuredome" is a tour-de-force ... and includes some of the greatest covers of all time -- whilst cheekily parodying acts from Springsteen to Pink Floyd. Without doubt, the now-defunt 12" single was MADE for these guys. Al Jarreau -- The voice even Quincy Jones couldn't ruin. Say what you will, but there's never been a more versatile musical instrument, played with such mastery as Al brings to a vocal ... track after track after track. Roxy Music -- Not just "Avalon", but the whole career. Few bands, though Marcel very aptly points out Fleetwood Mac, have made such a long musical journey, and left the kind of imprint that Ferry lyrics and vocals, and Manzanera's guitar have all along the way. In this age of mega-reunion tours, THIS is the one I'm wishing for the most. ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:54:08 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) - ---------- >From: Catherine McKay >To: "James L. Leonard" , Joni List >Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) >Date: Tue, May 9, 2000, 9:14 AM > >- Jonatha Brooke (new addition, thanks to frequent >mention here on the list!) >- Cat Stevens (too bad he decided to give up singing >and writing - it isn't actually *against* the Muslim >religion, is it? I have friends who are Muslim who >were in a rock band in Pakistan years ago, so what's >up with that? and the fundamentalist kind of >behaviour?) two more that i left off the list...i absolutely adore jonatha brooke. i have everything she has put out, as well as "the story" stuff. her solo stuff is definately more powerful, imo. she kind of replaced shawn colvin for me, in a way. although i love shawn's stuff, she doesn't seem to be putting out the kind of stuff i want to hear anymore....it's all nursery rhymes and songs about being happily married. who wants to listen to that depressing shit??? ;-) as fer ol' cat, i grew up listening to his music and will never be able to find a replacement for him. sad lisa...possibly one of the saddest and most beautiful songs ever written. i have all his stuff on vinyl and should probably try to get the cd's (if they even put them out on cd!) alison e. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 17:50:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Thanks to all of you Beautiful People Angela, dear, we are just going thru a dry patch right now. bw colin Treehuggergirl25@aol.com wrote: > > you know, this is the first mailing list that i've ever been on in my life > that i actually enjoy. i like it a lot. it's not a million emails insulting > each other and saying stupid things......thank you all for filling up my > inbox! > -angela ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:55:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Favorite Careers (NJC) Oops, a me-too post! Don's list reminded me of a few (how could I have missed these?) i.e., Al Jarreau, Pink Floyd (gotta love the Floyd!). And Marcel mentioned the Beatles (how could anyone forget?) And others have probably mentioned Santana. I also liked Blue Oyster Cult. And then there's Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span - AND Steely Dan! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:07:24 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: The committment to education (NJC) FILE UNDER: KETCHUP IS A VEGETABLE MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > > [Map Source: White House] > > EDUCATIONAL MAP RELEASED BY WHITE HOUSE SHOWS STATES IN WRONG LOCATIONS > > School's Out For Summer! > > A map of the United States of America featured on the White House's official > website shows the state of Kentucky occupying what is commonly known as > Tennessee. > > President Clinton's 'School Reform Tour' is outlined in a map featured at > http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/New/Education_Tour. > > One stop on the tour, Owensboro, Kentucky, is shown in a location that falls > in the great state of Tennessee -- the home of Vice President Gore! > > White House officials scrambled to remove the map late Monday night. > > "There is no one from the web development team working at this hour who can > fix the map!" one embarrassed official explained. [The map was updated to > reflect correct geography late Tuesday morning.] > > The website declares: 'President Clinton and Vice President Gore: An > Unprecedented Commitment to Education... dramatically increasing > accountability.' > > [marcel's note] At least they didnt misspell potato. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:17:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama Catherine in Toronto wrote, of Joni: > She does use "you know" a lot. So do most people (or > other similar expressions). It's part of the built- > in redundancy of oral speech. Gives the speaker > time to form their next thought, and the listener > time to take it in. I have to chime in here, as this has been annoying me lately ... What -- if any -- is the purpose of the current and increasingly pervasive habit of inserting "actually" into routine statements of fact? I hear this reply all too often: "I'm sorry; she's actually on the other line." Or: "He's actually at lunch." As opposed to what? Hypothetically? Today a fellow who was returning my phone call began the conversation with, "This is actually Scott." It's not as if I'd mistakenly thought he was someone else; he just offered the information that he was actually himself. What's up with this??? Does adding "actually" make an otherwise mundane statement sound more important? Lori, wondering if people ever consider what they're "actually" saying, in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: NJC: Joni and the Dalai Lama - --- "Lori R. Fye" wrote: > What -- if any -- is the purpose of the current and > increasingly pervasive habit of inserting "actually" > into routine statements of fact? The one that always gets me is "hopefully." Strunk and White's "Elements of Style" nails this one: "To say 'Hopefully I'll be on tomorrow's train' is to talk nonsense. Do you mean that you will be on the train in a hopeful frame of mind? Or that it is your intention to be on the train in 24 hours? Whichever it is you haven't said it plainly." Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:44:26 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Favorite Careers (Rationale) Wow. Thanks again to everybody who's answered my "Favorite Careers" question, and, please, those of you who haven't as yet (and you know who you are), please do so. Already, there are many artists I'm planning to re-discover or seek out for the first time. My Top 10 list (for the last time, and it now includes Joni, even though I'd originally asked for artists *other* than Joni) is as follows: Eric Clapton, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, Duke Ellington, Pat Metheny, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Paul Simon, and Neil Young. What distinguishes these particular "careers," for me, in addition to the fact that I've loved the music of these artists, is that each career has been (or was) a "journey." More than any other artists whose music I've loved in my 46 years (and there have been *very, very many*), it's been these individuals who most dramatically continued to evolve, and whose albums from one to the next took another step forward (in most instances). In the cases of those artists still active, I look forward to their next projects never knowing exactly what to expect...like I'm turning the page to begin the next chapter in a new novel by a favorite writer. (I hope I'm making sense, or at least getting my gist across). I agonized over placing The Beatles on this list, and Marcel has made a wonderful, eloquent case for their inclusion. In so many ways, they exemplified the growth as artists that I'm particualrly enamored with, and which I am trying to describe. It's likely that it was The Beatles, in fact, who provided me with the very example by which I judge *other* important careers. Every one of their albums grew from and expanded on the previous one. In the final analysis (and, in retrospect, I was probably wrong not to include them), I judged their "importance" to have been immeasurable, but their career to have been sadly short-lived. Yes, they did in fact make it possible for so *very* many of the artists we love to find their own voices and inspirations, and their songwriting and production was incomparable, but it all ended too soon, in 1970. Each made fantastic solo albums after the breakup, to be sure, but none of the individual members really continued to move ahead to the degree that Joni did after Blue, or Miles did after 'Round About Midnight, or Dylan did after The Times They Are A-Changin', or Coltrane did after leaving Miles, or Clapton did after leaving John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, or Van Morrison did after the breakup of Them, or Duke Ellington did after his residency at The Cotton Club, or Paul Simon did after Bridge Over Troubled Water, or Pat Metheny did after Bright Size Life with Jaco, or Neil Young did after Harvest. My list of favorite "artists" (as opposed to "careers") would go on for hours. Still, when I purchase new albums by the vast majority of my favorites, I'm just not as curious as to what they'll be up to on *this* one. Joni's BSN, on the other hand, was yet another surprise, and yet another example of her continued artistic growth. I guess I originally posed this question because, not only was I curious about everyone's favorite artists, I was also curious if the type of evolution Joni has exhibited would be one of the significant factors influencing others' decisions as to their "favorite careers." I wanted to see if it was a common thread. Please keep 'em comin', with no regard whatsoever to tailoring your response to this criteria. I've loved reading all the lists, and I look forward to many more. Thanks. :-) "Boston Jim" NP: Joni, Second Fret Sets, Vol. 1, "Winter Lady" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #241 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?