From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #231 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, May 4 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 231 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "mitchell" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Welcome Sara [leslie@torchsongs.com] Re: Unreleased songs [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Too Much Monkee business (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: SJC Current Concert Tour [Randy Remote ] Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures(NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: sF cONCERT [Randy Remote ] Re: Judy and the Clintons [Randy Remote ] Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] guilty pleasures(NJC) [Treehuggergirl25@aol.com] Re: Judy and the Clintons [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Evolution (njc) [evian ] Re: SJC Current Concert Tour ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang NJC [dsk ] Joni mention on the Radio (Kathie Lee cover) [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: Judd Girls Singing Joni Songs With Flashlights NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu"] Re: Urge for controversy [Marian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:28:58 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: "mitchell" In a message dated 5/3/00 5:24:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wittadi@hotmail.com writes: << all israeli freeks are mad about dylan - but joni? sorry? >> What about the late Steve Goodman? Now there was a nice Jewish boy who wrote some memorable songs. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: leslie@torchsongs.com Subject: Welcome Sara Hi Sara: Welcome to the list! With such fine taste in music your future appears very bright. Did you know that Bob Dylan wrote a song called, "Sara"? You must be very excited about attending Joni's concert during your birthday month. I look forward to hearing more from you. Which album of Joni's did you hear first? Leslie Mixon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:34:44 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Unreleased songs In a message dated 5/3/00 5:34:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Relayer211@aol.com writes: << << The wealth of as-yet-unreleased songs she wrote during that period certainly sheds huge doubt on this claim. >> There have been what-hundreds? of Joni songs that remain unreleased?Does anyone know why these songs were not released in the late 1960's?Why didn't Joni relsase these songs on more albums? >> My guess is that she decided most of them weren't good enough for her standards. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:39:37 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures In a message dated 5/3/00 7:02:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: << Does anyone have any recommendations for good Neil CD's? I have his new one and I like it, but I also like his more "rockin'" stuff. >> "Everybody Knows This is Nowhere" -- Neil with Crazy Horse Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:47:35 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Too Much Monkee business (NJC) > I've just noticed that Peter Tork, he of the sparkling > white unblemished molars, is actually playing a gig > at The Tin Angel in Philadelphia on May 14th I am quite amused. So many people on the list were complaining about today's 'manufactured' bands and how bad pop music is. And what is the one thing people latch on to from my post on the subject? The Monkees. Oh, but they had such talented writers & musicians backing them up so they're ok! Oh, yeah I forgot about that! Thank you all for proving my point about generational prejudice! LOL Mark in Seattle (who liked the Monkees a lot too) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:14:22 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy and the Clintons In a message dated 5/3/00 10:03:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << So to Bill and Hillary Clinton, "Chelsea Morning" may remain the work of Judy Collins, who is among the performers participating in the inaugural week's events. But to rock fans with hindsight, Joni Mitchell gets the credit. Jerry >> All right, I concede the point now that I have been shown a reliable source. Over the years, I've heard plenty of such stories that have turned out not to be the truth. It should also be noted that this report makes it clear that under the circumstances, it was an easy mistake to make and certainly not something the Clintons should be ridiculed for... On the other hand, I'll happily ridicule The Shrub anytime I damn well please, and it has nothing to do with his political affiliation. I imagine I would have treated John Quincy Adams the same way. I simply carry little respect for politicians who ride their father's coattails. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 22:26:49 EDT From: "Pat Post" Subject: SJC Current Concert Tour Hi Fellow Joni appreciators, I am new to the list and haven't received any info yet. I am looking forward to the upcoming concert, "An Evening With Joni Mitchell", at Pine Knob near Detroit. Has anyone seen her yet on this tour? Wondering what songs she will do and hoping she does some piano and wouldn't the dulcimer be great to here again? Take Care, Pat ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:04:17 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: SJC Current Concert Tour Hi Pat- Well.....Joni hasn't played the dulcimer on stage for 25 years, and it's been a great many years since she performed anything on the piano. Her current tour is in support of her new album "Both Sides Now", and she will be singing (and most likely ONLY singing) before an orchestra. The songs from BSN are, with the exception of two of her own, jazz standards from before most of us were born. If you don't have the album, you may want to pick it up and familiarize yourself with the material. It should be a wonderful show, but unlike anything she has previously done in public. The tour begins on the 12th in Los Angeles. RR PS welcome to the list & post your review after the concert if you feel so inclined Pat Post wrote: > > Hi Fellow Joni appreciators, I am new to the list and haven't received any > info yet. I am looking forward to the upcoming concert, "An Evening With > Joni Mitchell", at Pine Knob near Detroit. Has anyone seen her yet on this > tour? Wondering what songs she will do and hoping she does some piano and > wouldn't the dulcimer be great to here again? > Take Care, Pat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:05:42 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures(NJC) IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/3/00 7:02:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: > > << Does anyone have any recommendations for good Neil CD's? I > have his new one and I like it, but I also like his more "rockin'" stuff. >> > > "Everybody Knows This is Nowhere" -- Neil with Crazy Horse > > Paul I Another great one with Crazy Horse is "Zuma" RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:08:27 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: sF cONCERT That's the first I have heard of this. I have noticed that they keep running the ad for the show in the pink. I would be inclined to think they will go ahead with it, even if it is not well attended...c'mon No. Cal, this is Joni, dammit! RR KJHSF@aol.com wrote: > > I heard a rumour that there is talk of cancelling the SF concert because of > poor sales, something like only 3,000 sold so far! Does anyone know about > this? I will be heartbroken as I've never seen joni live and she is, of > course, joni. UNfortunately, my access to a computer is no longer daily, but > I'm anxiously awaiting any information. > Oh God Please, NOOOOOOO > Ken in SF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:16:10 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Judy and the Clintons Actually, this article does not specifically say that the Clinton's believe (or believed) Judy Collins WROTE Chelsea Morning, only that they associate it with her. And even if it did say that, what are their sources? I don't see anything definitive in the article to prove it one way or the other. Mentat in training, RR Jerry Notaro wrote: > > I won't stoop to Paul's level of name calling and negativity, but just > to show I'm not a Nixonian trying to make up stories about Chelsea > Morning at the time of the Clinton Inauguration, here is the story from > The New York Times: > > The New York Times > > January 19, 1993, Tuesday, Late Edition - > Final > > SECTION: Section A; Page 15; Column 1; National Desk > > LENGTH: 224 words > > HEADLINE: THE INAUGURATION; > Shedding Light On a Morning And a Name > > BODY: > It started with a hotel: the Chelsea Hotel in New York City, where > Joni Mitchell was staying and, one bright > morning, felt as if "the sun poured in like butterscotch and stuck to > all my senses." Those impressions inspired > "Chelsea Morning," the song that gave Chelsea Clinton her name. > > But to Chelsea's parents, "Chelsea Morning" is a Judy Collins song. The > Collins version came out in the summer of > 1969 as a single, and was a modest hit. It had also appeared a few > months earlier on Ms. Mitchell's second album, > "Clouds." Thus began a controversy that played a role in the Clinton > campaign similar to Socks the Cat's run-in with > photographers. > > In the late 1960's, Ms. Collins was the bigger star. There was still a > gap between popularizers or interpreters, like > Ms. Collins, and the songwriters, like Ms. Mitchell, who were known > mainly to more dedicated fans. Ms. Collins > already had a Top 10 hit with another Mitchell song, "Both Sides Now," > which she introduced in 1967, two years > before Ms. Mitchell's version appeared on "Clouds." Later, Ms. > Mitchell's versions of her songs would reach the > radio. > > So to Bill and Hillary Clinton, "Chelsea Morning" may remain the work of > Judy Collins, who is among the > performers participating in the inaugural week's events. But to rock > fans with hindsight, Joni Mitchell gets the credit. > > Jerry > > Librarians are the secret masters of the world. They control > information. > Don't ever piss one off. > --Spider Robinson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:19:18 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang NJC Jeez Debra, I sure don't remember where I read it! It's not a creation myth although I understand the term. It's the pure physics of newly confirmed subparticles of colors and quarks etc. I read that there's a model that explains some of their properties as either on or off. Some of the properties are multiple choice but mutually exclusive. Like a neutron has lots of mass but no "spin" and no fixed velocity. Photons have very little mass but a fixed velocity. What I read was a dumbing-down of a scientific theory (not a religious one) that suggested that the existence of these quanta and their properties are fixed for this universe. When I was talking about "previous" universes, I was stretching the idea metaphorically, postulating with whimsical names that some properties may have been appropriate for other instances but not this one. Sorry about the confusion. I jump right to metaphor too quickly! Yes, obviously, I agree with you that we don't know, and I suspect _can't_ know about other universes. (There I go again- mixing science and religion in one sentence. "We don't know" is science-ism and "_can't_ know" is a theological belief.) > So, Jim, not to put you on the spot, but I'm still curious about where your > paragraph came from. Maybe from one of the creation myths, which every culture > has developed? > > Debra Shea All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:20:05 EDT From: Treehuggergirl25@aol.com Subject: guilty pleasures(NJC) mmmmmmmm. guilty pleasures. a niiiiiiiice big bag of barbecue potato chips. i'm working the overnight here at the group home (not by choice of course!) and i wish i had some. Saaaaay. Do any of you jmdl-ers live in Akron? ok...here's how you get to where i am...... hahahaha. funny. (and you think i'm only kidding....) ;-) - -angela ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:41:58 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy and the Clintons In a message dated 5/3/00 11:17:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: << Actually, this article does not specifically say that the Clinton's believe (or believed) Judy Collins WROTE Chelsea Morning, only that they associate it with her. And even if it did say that, what are their sources? I don't see anything definitive in the article to prove it one way or the other. Mentat in training, >> I'm just writing this to be objective.I have nothing against the Clintons.I have met them as a matter of fact. I remember scimming through a biography of Hillary.She is quoted as saying "you know that song by Judy Collins,Chelsea Morning..." With Bill Clinton,a few years ago there was a TV special about Clinton and music.He said that "Chelsea Mitchell" was written by Joni Mitchell and sung by Judy Collins.whether he knew about Joni's version of the song,I don't know. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:54:37 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures NJC In a message dated 5/3/00 5:02:34 PM US Central Standard Time, myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: << Does anyone have any recommendations for good Neil CD's? I have his new one and I like it, but I also like his more "rockin'" stuff. >> Kerry, The aforementioned "Everybody Knows..." is awesome, "Harvest" is a must, "After The Gold Rush" is a certified classic, "Rust Never Sleeps", "Freedom", "Harvest Moon", all are excellent, and if you really want a rocker go with "Ragged Glory". If you have a credit card with some balance on it, go get 'em all!! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 22:09:54 -0600 From: evian Subject: Evolution (njc) Catherine writes: > Well, I don't know what Boone's Farm is, but it sounds > kinda like "Baby Duck" to me! > > LOLOL!!! I forgot all about baby duck! LOL! Oh God, I shudder thinking of it... remember Lonesome Charlie and Strawberry Angel and Bianca as well? Once, my friends and I even bought THUNDERBIRD, because, after all, it was like 23% alcohol, and something like 4 dollars a bottle, so it was way cheaper than buying a couple of bottles of Absolut, my fave teenage drink (was v.g. mixed with grape kool aid) or apricot brandy. Lemme tell ya, it was a miracle I didn't go blind that night -- I swear that stuff was really antifreeze. Going down memory lane and shuddering, Evian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 00:11:52 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: SJC Current Concert Tour - ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Post > wouldn't the dulcimer be great to here again? I was thinking this just before the tribute concert, and designed the "Dulci-Flier", meant to be flung from the second balcony, to land ever so delicately at her Siquombness' feet (with all strings tuned to A.) The "Dulci-Flier" is a little hard to describe, but I have a proto-type jpeg worth 1000 words, or at least 51 words. Anyone who is interested in seeing the "Dulci-Flier", e-mail me and I'll fire it off to you. Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:32:03 CDT From: "David Piekarczyk" Subject: NJC New member Hi: I wanted to post a thank you to Les and Jim for helping me get into the list and say hello to all of you. At last, people I can talk to about Joni Mitchell! Dave ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:40:25 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang NJC Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > ... It's the pure physics of newly confirmed subparticles > of colors and quarks etc. ... What I read was a dumbing-down of a scientific > theory (not a religious one) that suggested that the existence of these > quanta and their > properties are fixed for this universe.... Thanks very much, Jim, for explaining your message a little more. What I read into it isn't at all what you were saying, so it's good to find that out. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:31:51 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Joni mention on the Radio (Kathie Lee cover) Loren, CD Now sent me an advertisment about this new Kathie Lee Gifford CD release called BORN FOR YOU just released yesterday(?). On it Kathie Lee sings a duet with Dolly Parton on "Circle Game". I, for one, love Dolly but am not too familiar with Kathie Lee's singing. Didn't she sing on a cruise commercial? I think that's all I've heard of her altho I know she has a few released albums. Oh, yeah.......I just remebered I heard her sing on a Christmas special in her home. This should make for an interesting cover! http://p01.com/t.d?cEMiKu6-=/cdnow.com/switch/target=album/lcc=61832+15115+2/from=rex:x:cdn:nr000502 They put up sound samples today (wasn't there yesterday) and listed is Born For You/Circle Game. You can here the "Born For You" part but not the "Circle Game" with Dolly Parton. So Howard Stern said. "Joni Mitchell is brilliant." Always wondered what he thought of Joni..........of course he despises Kathie Lee and I hope he didn't just say that to make Kathie seem even lower then he already thinks of her. Now to completely change the subject.......... I just had to share what I found in the Trib Go to: http://www.marrytom.com/ Oh, you single gals............I'm so jealous! ha! (which translates into a big hardy, head thrown back laugh......Roseanne like). Laura From: Loren Carter Subject: Joni mention on the radio (VLJC) All, This morning during my commute to work I was listening to the radio, OK it was the Howard Stern show. He was ragging on a new album by Kathie Lee Gifford. Apparently Kathie Lee covers The Circle Game, and Howard, commenting about that cover said "She'll (Kathie Lee) ruin it too, Joni Mitchell is brilliant." Sure surprised me to hear him say that. Loren.... NP...nothing but the humming of the A/C and the taping of keyboard keys. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 02:18:32 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Judd Girls Singing Joni Songs With Flashlights NJC Cynical Jim says: Nowadays, they'd just steal mp3 files over Internet. Howard persuaded that the Judd girls were.. "... a couple of tenacious and resourceful little girls who could get off that mountain to buy Joni Mitchell records. (I couldn't resist.) All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 08:19:53 +0200 From: Marian Subject: Re: Urge for controversy On Wed, 03 May 2000 11:20:35 -0600 Les Irvin wrote: > Urge for Going has always seemed to me > to be an "odd" Joni song. The chord > structure and the melodic flow seem to > be unlike anything else she was doing > at the time... I have this same feeling about it, Les. I think what bothers me the most is the standard tuning and the rather standard melody and chord progression. It's very folky and most of Joni's early songs just aren't very folky, even the ones I've heard that are on the early tape trees. It's possible to play UFG in a tuning, though. When I put it into a tuning, it sounds a whole lot better to me and it's easier to believe that it really was authored by Joni. It would be nice if you could dig up that old post and anything related to it. Marian Vienna NP: Brandy Eyes - Joni ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #231 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?