From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #230 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 3 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 230 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Nice Judds NJC [Howard Motyl ] : Re: - River / Travis(NJC) ["Garret" ] Re: Nice Judds! NJC [Howard Motyl ] Urge for controversy [Les Irvin ] Re: a new member of the list! ["James L. Leonard" ] more lyrics (NJC) [Anne Sandstrom ] RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) ["Garret" ] RE: Nice Judds! (NJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: we are stardust we are golden NJC [dsk ] WELCOME! [Anne Sandstrom ] Dating (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Thinking Ahead? ["Paul Castle" ] Camden tickets? [Jim and/or Jay ] Astronomy of the Big Bang; Was "we are stardust" njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu ] Re: Urge for controversy [susan+rick ] Re: a new member of the list! (SJC) ["Sara *" ] RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) [Catherine McKay ] flashlights etc ["Kate Bennett" ] Urge for controversy ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] "mitchell" ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang NJC [dsk ] Re: Unreleased songs [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Book Recommendations ["Alan Lorimer" ] Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. ["Jamie Zubairi" ] This Just IN!!!!!!! ["Michael Paz" ] Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang; Was "we are stardust" njc ["Ken (slarty)] CSNY and guilty pleasures ["kerry" ] Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. [michael w yarbrough ] Too Much Monkee business (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. [apso ] sF cONCERT [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. [philipf@tinet.ie] Speakeasy rerun and an apology [susan+rick ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:35:10 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Nice Judds NJC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------8ED024FF7E81DE14BC9415E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Einerson wrote: > ---------- > >From: Howard Motyl > > >On the other hand, I am in the bizness and know how much of this banter is > >written by other people and said by the glamourpusses or more famous. I don't > >doubt that the Judd girls liked, even loved, Joni--I just think some of the > >things they supposedly did while listening to her music seemed a bit > >far-fetched and/or exaggerated. > > i remember sitting on my mom's bed and listening to her play "little green" > on the guitar. i was pretty young, i don't remember how, but it was so > beautiful and moving that i started crying. i was embarrased, so i faked it > like i fell off the bed so that i could say that i was crying because i hit > my head. true story. > > now, if i get famous someday, and go on tv to tell that story, will you > believe me howard? > > alison e. Yes. and I hope you get famous so you can tell that story on TV. I am not saying that everything is made up for TV but there is a spin on things that sometimes just is false or rings false. That's all. And I must say this: I like the Judds--in all incarnations--as The Judds, Wynonna, Ashley Judd--as performers. I have a bit of a problem with their family values politics but I think they are very talented and savvy performers and business people. (If you want to see a fine, fine and undervalued performance--and film--see Ruby in Paradise with Ashley. She was robbed of an Oscar nomination.) Howard M. - --------------8ED024FF7E81DE14BC9415E6 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------8ED024FF7E81DE14BC9415E6-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:44:44 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: : Re: - River / Travis(NJC) >who is this Ali G. i've never heard of her/him. at the same time, it sounds .>as if i'm not missing much. pat he's a comiden, if you could call him that. as far as i know he started with a spot on channel fours "the 11 o clock show" which has its moments of being almost funny- though it tries far to hard to be shocking . i was going ot give an example of a joke involving Rupert Murdoch and a new flavour of Ben and Jerrys, but i'll refrain!! (distasteful) this season, it seemed that he deserved a show of his own. i've only seen it twice and found him even less funny than D'unbeliveables!! GARRET ps- Travis are supporting Oasis american tour (if thats not over yet, i'm behind on everything else these days). NP- Tori Amos "smells like teen spirit" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:35:46 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Nice Judds! NJC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------5E6111FAF0D973B8F45D4BC7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Bob Muller (Perception)" wrote: > Seems like Joni's fans can't win - if they make the effort to record their > comments for inclusion, they're berated for not being there in person > (Hillary), and if they show up and deliver a prepared monologue, it's STILL > not good enough! You are right. And my initial entry was to defend Hillary and I end up trashing (a bit) Ashley. I apologize for that. I actually thought that Ashley did a great job--even with what I thought were exaggerations. And, Don, I really don't believe that Naomi was not allowing her daughters to listen to JM. By 79, they were under contract in Nashville. In 76, they had moved--according to their PR--to a farm in the Kentucky hills, without phone or television. Let's assume their was a radio and a record player. And a barn and a couple of flashlights. And a couple of tenacious and resourceful little girls who could get off that mountain to buy Joni Mitchell records. (I couldn't resist.) Howard M. - --------------5E6111FAF0D973B8F45D4BC7 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------5E6111FAF0D973B8F45D4BC7-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:20:35 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Urge for controversy Joniphiles - Long time listers may remember the brief appearance a few years ago of a woman who delurked and innocently proclaimed that "her father wrote the song 'Urge For Going' and sold it to Joni". Needless to say, she was met with considerable derision and never posted again. I've often thought about her claim and wondered. Urge for Going has always seemed to me to be an "odd" Joni song. The chord structure and the melodic flow seem to be unlike anything else she was doing at the time. Certainly, it wasn't uncommon to "lift" melodies from other sources - I'm probably wrong, but I don't think Dylan wrote an original melody until 1964. On the other hand, why would Joni be "purchasing" a song at a time when her creativity was overflowing? The wealth of as-yet-unreleased songs she wrote during that period certainly sheds huge doubt on this claim. Could be that Joni just fell in love with the song and "had to have it". Or, could be that this woman's father is full of crap and the song is indeed 100% Joni's. Thoughts anyone? Pat... Cul... you were both there during that time, no? Any insight? Les - who saved up his paper route money to buy each new Monkees album that came out and still likes to listen to "Headquarters" and "Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn, and Jones"... NP: Cat Power ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:27:16 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: a new member of the list! Hi, Sara. I'm new to the list myself, and wanted to join in with everyone else to extend a hearty welcome. The people here have all been very kind to me in the few weeks I've been aboard, and I know you'll also find that to be true. I've seen several folks ask you how you learned of Joni, which is your favorite album or song, and such. Please take the time to write us a nice, long history of your musical journey, particularly as it involves Joni. We'd all enjoy reading it. Which artists did you listen to most before discovering Joni? Don't be embarrassed to say. We've all had our own meandering musical journeys...many, as you can see, involving the Monkees! :-) "Boston Jim" NP: "Mood Indigo," Dr. John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:31:16 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: more lyrics (NJC) Hi everyone. What a gorgeous day here! And the next few days promise to be even better. I go for my next chemo treatment tomorrow (why couldn't those happen on RAINY days?) lots of love Anne Here are some more lyrics... SEASIDE DAY We walked by the ocean's brim You tripped and almost fell right in You danced on the rocks, skipped stones in the tide And laughed long into this salty night Walk with me through this day Stay til the tides turn us away Run with me through this day Stay til the night's shadows fade away You scratched a poem for me in the sand Then the waves pulled thw words from your hand Words in the waves and songs in the sea That swim like tides back to me Walk with me through this day Stay til the tides turn us away Run with me through this day Stay til the night's shadows fade away Tonight you'll tell old stories to me Of sailors and tall ships on the sea Of finding treasure buried deep in the waves Of finding love on a seaside day Walk with me through this day Stay til the tides turn us away Run with me through this day Stay til the night's shadows fade away Walk with me through this day... Copyright (c) 1988, Anne Sandstrom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:43:45 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) Hey Sara, welcome ot the list, it's great to have you aboard!! it's great to hear from someone younger than me!! i'm nineteen years of age myself, when i was fifteen i was listening to Paul Simon (sometimes wiht Art Garfunkel) and motown music. i understand what you're saying about peoples reaction to your taste in music. In fact, recetnly, while listening to Comes Love from BSN my own mother laughed at me "you're gettign worse" she said. " these songs are around longer than me!!" when i was at school everyone knew that my taste in music wasn't quite Lauren Hill, Busta Rhymes, or Oasis because my friend and i had a radio show on a community station. iwas in an all boys school and social standing was, for most, about conformity and being on the inside of the most popular cliques; so it was strange for anyone to express an interest in anything other than the popularly accepted, and this included musical taste. mainstream rap, hip-hop, and britpop (including Travis, as it happens) were the most favoured tastes in music(for the known conformers, hehe), along with a little "classic rock"- the beatles, fleetwood mac, the doors. those that enjoyed Korn and Marilyn Manson were thought strange. those that liked (and they did indeed exist) Celine Dion, Mariah, and Britney (eh, her music that is) were laughed at. then there was me. i was the lad that would vandalise the desk not with "GAR WUZ ERE" but with "we are stardust, we are golden". it was strange, over the years it reached a point where i was considered an expert on "strange" yet generally reputable music (my year actually included a lot of musically sound people, and a few bands emerged by the end of sixth year). people often asked me what did i think of such and such's new song, or had i ever heard of Buffy Sante-Marieee (?!?) Joni was one of the hardest to explain. "is she liek BobDylan?", or "who?" were common questions. i always consoled myself wiht the fact that some of these people have been desensitised to good (yet challenging) music by years of easy to hear/no thought involved songs o the radio. forgive me Sara, if i have made no point here and if my writing is awfully ineloquent:-) i've been studying for my tests which start on friday and i am utterly unprepared! Hope ot hear much more from you on the list!! GARRET NP- Patti Smith, Land ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:36:23 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Nice Judds! (NJC) I thought Wynonna's name was Christine (apparently, it's Christina), and that Ashley's first name was not changed (seems I was right on that). But I'm not sure where "Judd" came from: I thought the sisters' original last name was Ciminelli, or something like that, after their father. Was Naomi's original surname Judd? Inquiring minds want to know! Mary P., - --can't believe I'm posting on this. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 13:46:45 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: we are stardust we are golden NJC "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lamadoo)" wrote: > I thought Joni was quoting Carl Sagan, the late popularizer of science. > It's too technical to have floated up whole, from Joni's subconscious. I think it was a new scientific discovery getting a lot of publicity at the time Woodstock was written, that all living things on earth contain the same elements that exist throughout the universe, which means there's a greater chance that other living beings similar to us would have developed, somewhere. Before that I think life on earth was seen as unique and separate from the rest of the universe. > So God said, "I am" and the universe sneezed in an unbelievably profound > event nicknamed the Big Bang. I like your very concise description, Jim, although I doubt a scientist would describe it the way you did. Part of the controversy of the big bang theory is that the question of a creator arises, as in "if the universe started in an instant, who or what did that?" The older steady-state theory, the "always existed, always will" idea, didn't need a creator in quite the same way. There's a famous quote by Robert Jastrow, a well-known astrophysicist at the time, something about climbing the huge mountain of knowledge only to find that theologians had been sitting there for hundreds of years. One of my favorite cartoons is from the New Yorker around that time. It's a line drawing of a disheveled Einstein-looking character facing a huge blackboard. The left side is filled with complex equations; in the middle are the words, written very large, "and then something happened"; and more equations fill the blackboard to the right side. Makes me laugh thinking about it .... yep, mysteries abound, even for scientists. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:42:07 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: WELCOME! Hi Sara. Welcome, welcome, welcome! I was 14 when I discovered Joni's music. (OK, so that was a LONG time ago.) May I complement you on your impeccable musical taste! I hope you enjoy the list and the web sites. And NEVER be bashful about posting. I certainly would love to hear more from you! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:56:16 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Dating (NJC) >God I'm REALLY dating myself today ... Careful, Don, you can go blind doing that. :) ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:18:12 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Thinking Ahead? Here's a thought for the future... well, tomorrow, really. "May the 4th be with you." PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:39:12 -0400 From: Jim and/or Jay Subject: Camden tickets? I'm forwarding this for a friend who's trying to help another friend: "My friend Betsy has two tickets to Joni's BSN Concert on June 2 in Camden that she cannot use. She is looking to sell them. You can contact her by Email at betsyandrews@yahoo.com" Here's another Ticketmaster nightmare for the archives: I bought mine by phone for the Boston show four days after they went on sale. I went for "best tickets available". They arrived last week and are almost in the very last row of the concert space. I just can't believe that was the "best" they could do. I'm determined not to let that spoil this upcoming Joni experience but I need to work through my anger first. D.J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:59:21 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" Subject: Astronomy of the Big Bang; Was "we are stardust" njc Debra wrote: The older steady-state theory, the "always existed, always will" idea, didn't need a creator in quite the same way. Now me: I read that there are theories about a set of possibilities that were tumbled like dice before creation. At the moment of creation, all of the possibilities for _this_ incarnation of the Universe were locked in for the life of the Universe. So we have gravity but not mavity. We have 3 physical dimensions plus something we colloquially refer to as "time". We have electrons, protons, photons, and neutrons but we don't have n#+(, nor do we have @~p, nor do we even have the *&x found so commonly in previous incarnations. I hadn't heard this quote. Thanks for sharing it. I can imagine a New Yorker cartoon of this idea too: You wrote: There's a famous quote by Robert Jastrow, a well-known astrophysicist at the time, something about climbing the huge mountain of knowledge only to find that theologians had been sitting there for hundreds of years. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:13:40 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Urge for controversy Les Irvin posted: > Joniphiles - > Long time listers may remember the brief appearance a few years ago of a > woman who delurked and innocently proclaimed that "her father wrote the > song 'Urge For Going' and sold it to Joni". Needless to say, she was met > with considerable derision and never posted again. [snip] > Thoughts anyone? Pat... Cul... you were both there during that time, > no? Any insight? Is the original post still available in the archives somewhere? I've always thought of UFG as the quintessential Canadian song, right up there with Four Strong Winds. The images of winter and "geese in chevron flight" and "locking the vagrant winter out" are so vivid in my experience and memory that of all JONI's songs this is the one that is guaranteed to give me goose bumps and get me all misty. I have never found it to be that distinct from her other work that it would stand out as being written by someone else. Yes it is in standard tuning but the chord formations are very typical of Joni. In many of the early concerts I attended, Joni told of writing UFG about the bleakness sometimes felt in a long cold prairie winter. (Check out the Second Fret Sets). When she did perform other people's material she never hesitated to acknowledge them (Get Together by Dino Valenti was a regular in early concerts). Could it be that she was so caught up in the glow of recognition that no doubt came from having people like Tom Rush perform her music that, once everyone believed that UFG was her own, she was unable to tell the truth? Somehow, given Joni's history of supporting new performers (e.g. Jackson Browne) and freely talking about influences in her life I find it hard to believe that she would "buy" a song and then claim it entirely. As far as borrowing (what the the folk process is all about) it's apparent that Joni even borrowed from herself, keeping chord and picking patterns but rejecting words, or putting old phrases to new melodies. Pieces of many of her rejected songs show up in her other works. (Compare Hunter the Good Samaritan to This Flight Tonight-Why waste a good guitar part?) Could Joni have heard someone perform something like UFG and borrowed parts of it unconsciously or otherwise? Yeah maybe, but a slim maybe, given that her writing at the time was so unique. The poetry of Urge For Going is so perfectly Joni and so unlike anything I can remember from that era. When you compare it to Circle Game you find much the same folky structure (verses with a repeated chorus) that is not typical of most of her work but can perhaps be attributed to someone just emerging from the "folk" environment. My final verdict: Indisputably Joni. Great topic, Les All good things Rick, home with laryngitis, full of medication, and thus free to sit and ramble somewhat incoherently at the keyboard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:41:34 EDT From: "Sara *" Subject: Re: a new member of the list! (SJC) Hi everyone!~ Thank you SO MUCH for all of the kind replies to my message. It makes me feel really great just to know that I've finally found someplace where I know my love for Joni will always be accepted and embraced. So, people have been asking about my past musical history, so here it goes . . . . . The first music I remember listening to (at about the age of 4 or 5) was 50's music - mainly doo wop and things like that. I don't exactly know why I started listening to this music, but I have an idea that my parents had something to do with it. *smirk* Basically, that was all I listened to until about age 9. I then went through a VERY BRIEF period when I loved everything country, but it was only a phase that probably didn't last any longer than a year. At age 10 I began playing saxophone and immediately fell in love with it. I'm still playing today, and it's one of my favorite things to do! At about age 11 I joined jazz band and found an interest in playing jazz. This was about the same time that I discovered Joni. My sister (a drummer, guitarist, vocalist, pianist, and lover of ALL music) was listening to a Joni album (I can't remember which one), and I immediately fell in love. I started saving my money so I could buy more and more Joni albums, and my love for Joni grew each time I bought a new one. As for a favorite Joni song or album, I don't think I can pick one. I love them ALL!!!! Sara >From: "James L. Leonard" >Reply-To: "James L. Leonard" >To: "Joni List" >Subject: Re: a new member of the list! >Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:27:16 -0700 > >Hi, Sara. > >I'm new to the list myself, and wanted to join in with everyone else to >extend a hearty welcome. > >The people here have all been very kind to me in the few weeks I've been >aboard, and I know you'll also find that to be true. > >I've seen several folks ask you how you learned of Joni, which is your >favorite album or song, and such. Please take the time to write us a nice, >long history of your musical journey, particularly as it involves Joni. >We'd >all enjoy reading it. > >Which artists did you listen to most before discovering Joni? Don't be >embarrassed to say. We've all had our own meandering musical >journeys...many, as you can see, involving the Monkees! :-) > >"Boston Jim" > >NP: "Mood Indigo," Dr. John > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) - --- Garret wrote: > Hey Sara, > welcome ot the list, it's great to have you aboard!! > it's great to hear > from someone younger than me!! i'm nineteen years > of age myself, when i was > fifteen i was listening to Paul Simon (sometimes > wiht Art Garfunkel) and > motown music. > i understand what you're saying about peoples > reaction to your taste in > music. Of course, you realize that, although right now you may be considered, well, a little "odd" by your friends and family, if you wait, oh, 20 to 40 years or thereabouts, people will suddenly start thinking you're just too cool for words, and all those schoolmates of yours who diss you now, will be clamouring to be remembered as your best friend "way back when". Or maybe they'll honour you at some TV show where a whole bunch of famous people will show up (some well-dressed, some in rags) gushing and oozing overly wonderful things about you, while the rest of us, your *real* friends ;) out here will get all jealous and catty about being left out of the action... Tongue planted so firmly in cheek, I may have bitten part of it off (ouch!)... ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 13:59:57 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Urge for controversy At 01:13 PM 5/3/2000, susan+rick wrote: >I have never found it to be that distinct from her other work that it would >stand out as being written by someone else. Yes it is in standard tuning but >the chord formations are very typical of Joni. I agree that most of the song could be structurally compared to Joni's other work at the time. However, the chord structure and melody during this passage: "When the sun turns traitor cold And all the trees are shivering in a naked row" seem odd, almost clumsy to me. It just doesn't seem to "flow" like the rest of Joni's work does. Maybe I'm analyzing it too much! Les NP: Bill Frisell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:05:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: flashlights etc "I just think some of the things they supposedly did while listening to her music seemed a bit far-fetched and/or exaggerated." This is a very typical thing for young sisters to do,barn or no barn-especially if the oldest is an aspiring musician. Some of used hairbrushes, though. Kate Bennett Singer Songwriter kate@katebennett.com www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:11:15 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: Urge for controversy <<"When the sun turns traitor cold And all the trees are shivering in a naked row" seem odd, almost clumsy to me. It just doesn't seem to "flow" like the rest of Joni's work does. Maybe I'm analyzing it too much! >> But IMO, the lyrics you've quoted, along with "bolt my wandering in", are quintessential Joni. Plus, I would think she'd make that part of the story she'd tell about the song..."this next one is one that I liked so much I bought it from its writer"...like Rick said, she seems so insistent on giving credit where credit is due, the story of her buying it (and not fessing up) just doesn't ring true. But all *I* can do is speculate - I too would be anxious to hear from Pat and the others that 'knew her when'.... Bob NP: Yes, "Close To the Edge, Pt. I, The Solid Time of Change" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 21:22:34 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: "mitchell" hi and shalom everyone! there's a young singer in israel named mika karni. she's the only artist in israel that i have ever heard saying that joni is her first class muse. here in israel, well folks, you can't even imagine...the best music stores at the 3 largest cities, keep "blue" and "blue" only, and even "blue", as i'm told by them stores owners, is not sold. do you think that anyone here has the slightest idea about joni? the hell they do. all israeli freeks are mad about dylan - but joni? sorry? what was that name again? anyway, mika came out of the closet, and has done a wonderfull thing - on her debut, the first single was called "mitchell". she told the press about her admiration for joni, and said that she nick named her ex-lover "mitchell". them press bimbos were very much intersted about "mitchell" the ex-lover, but joni? sorry? what was that name again? so, i thought it would be nice to let you know, and i've done my best to translate the song to english, and do forgive me for my wrong spelling -ay em nought ammerikun:) so, here's "mitchell" by mika karni, and you know what? this song has made her a star in israel. mitchell - -------- 3.30 me and mitchell waiting at the station 158 do'nt come this he's called (i think) haim, listens in understanding, pushes on the button, yells, mitchell sweats 3.40 sitting down passing over all the lists haim (so i imagine) losses interest 158 is surely sleeping like a baby mitchell and i are sitting far too close to eachother no one do'nt come, and it's already late, and as for me it's me and mitchell 'till tomorow, no one do'nt come, and it's already late, and as for me i'm i'm i'm 'i'm i'm... it's already something.30, a little clock, too little, and haim takes a filter for sucking mitchell has long ago taken his hands out of the pockets 158 - he do'nt come, do'nt come someone says in the okee-tokee that they saw him parking at "prophets street" sending a taxi to bat-yam to search, mitchell and i are long ago not dealing in talking haim open his mouthe only to yawn no one do'nt come, and it's already late and as for me it's me and mitchell 'till tomorow no one do'nt come, and it's already late, and as for me i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm... i'm not coming and it's already late and as for me it's me and mitchell 'till tomorow no one do'nt come, and it's already late and as for me i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:29:22 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang NJC "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lamadoo)" wrote: > I read that there are theories about a set of possibilities that > were tumbled like dice before creation. At the moment of creation, all of > the possibilities for _this_ incarnation of the Universe were locked in for > the life of the Universe. So we have gravity but not mavity. We have 3 > physical dimensions plus something we colloquially refer to as "time". We > have electrons, protons, photons, and neutrons but we don't have n#+(, nor > do we have @~p, nor do we even have the *&x found so commonly in previous > incarnations. Jim, this is rather confusing. Where did you read this? It sounds like it might come from a religious fundamentalist viewpoint, because it's implying the universe is set, unchanging, similar to "God created man, directly, so you can stop all this sacrilegious talk about evolution right now." Your paragraph also implies, to me, that if the universe does ever change, it's because God one day decides rather arbitrarily to redo it all, just because he can. Personally, I've never believed in that all-powerful, puppetmaster view of God. I think there's something much more subtle at work. And, since the big bang thoroughly destroyed whatever may have existed before, how do we have any way of knowing what was found so commonly in previous incarnations? Or even any way of knowing if there WAS a previous incarnation, much less what it might have looked like? I don't think any scientist today would say that any part of nature is locked in. If anything, it's just the opposite now (compared to pre-Einstein scientific thought). "New" things are being discovered all the time as scientists attempt to tie the four known forces of energy all together, something Einstein almost accomplished but not quite. Nuons, guons, black holes, worm holes, z forces... scientists on the list, feel free to corrrect or stop me at any time.... with string theory being the most talked about now. So, Jim, not to put you on the spot, but I'm still curious about where your paragraph came from. Maybe from one of the creation myths, which every culture has developed? Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:29:55 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Unreleased songs In a message dated 5/3/00 1:24:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << The wealth of as-yet-unreleased songs she wrote during that period certainly sheds huge doubt on this claim. >> There have been what-hundreds? of Joni songs that remain unreleased?Does anyone know why these songs were not released in the late 1960's?Why didn't Joni relsase these songs on more albums? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:31:37 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Book Recommendations Laura said: >My next question would be, where should a semi-newbie >start in terms of Joni's music? I think the most important thing is not which album to buy next, but when to buy them. Joni's music really takes a lot time to absorb. I would recommend only buying one album at a time and waiting a month or two between buying albums. The other recommendation that I would make is to pick albums that fill different areas of Joni's music. My recommendations would be: Hissing Of Summer Lawns - which must be one of Joni's best albums Turbulent Indigo - A great introduction to Joni's later work (post Jazz) Court & Spark - Am I allowed to say an "Easy to listen to Album?" You can then start filling in the "gaps". Hejira is another excellent ablum which follows on from HOSL and contiunes towards Jazz. Night Ride Home is another excellent example of her later work. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:16:12 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. You really aren't missing anything... Ali G is a one-joke wonder. He's a British Jewish comedian who is pretending to be a Pakistani who thinks he's Jamaican.... It's funny on certain levels but on others.... He's been given his own show which is really stretching it. He may come across to the States but I don't think they will get him as he is taking the piss out of a particular kind of suburban Pakistani that thinks he's Black.... I'm not sure if you have those in the States. You probably have whiteboys who think they are black, but I wouldn't have thought you have a noticeable Subcontinental population. He used to be on a show called The 11 O'clock Show which is co-hosted by (and here's the name dropping bit) Daisy Donovan who graduated LAMDA the same time I did (i.e. she was in the same group as my flatmate). He father is the famous photographer Terence Donovan who tragically committed suicide in 1996 (while Daisy was at college). Anyway... the guy from Travis looked really sweet as he was trying to sing his song when Ali G brought on these dancers dancing to a drum and bass track... but not taken seriously at all... Jamie Z - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: 03 May 2000 02:31 Subject: Re: - River / Travis(NJC) > In a message dated 5/2/00 8:41:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie > writes: > > << I saw Travis on the Ali G show. Ali G told Travis that his music was > "f**king miserable". I can never understand why people agree to appear on > shows like Ali G knowing they're going to be made look like fools. > >> > > who is this Ali G. i've never heard of her/him. at the same time, it sounds > as if i'm not missing much. pat > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:38:06 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: This Just IN!!!!!!! Hello Lists- I now have two companies that have agreed to do the webcast of JoniFest from New Orleans. I hope to finalize with one of the two companies next week after Jazz Fest. It looks like everyone who is not coming and not in Boston can watch the 4 hour live telecast. WHOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!! **********************************ALSO VERY IMPORTANT******************************** If you have NOT made reservations at the Holiday Inn Select, but want to, please do so by friday at the latest. We are trying to finalize all the plans with them and they extended the period allotted to me by 5 days. ALSO, if you made reservations and ARE NOT coming, please cancel them so they do not charge you for these rooms. I have a couple more cool surprises that I am not willing to divulge yet, but SOON. Also a few items of note. Sting played a great set at the fest on Sunday. I hung out with my friend Scott Crago (who plays drums with the Eagles) and his friends from LA and had a great time. He is probably coming back this weekend to hang some more cause he had so much fun here. He was blown away by (drummer) Russell Batiste with the Funky Meters and George Porters Runnin Partners and also by Fred LeBlanc with Cowboy Mouth. As usual Fred was climbing his way into peoples hearts by climbing to the top of the tent covering the stage (about 60 feet) and sitting at the top with his feet propped up on the Alligator decor up there, meanwhile singing and preaching his ASS off. ARE YOU WITH ME HERE? I also managed to catch Zawinul Project, Chick Corea and Gary Burton, Continental Drifters, and so much more at the site. I am doing a web cast video shoot for Michael Murphy Productions, Acura, and www.riffage.com. You will be able to catch alot of the performances that we are taping online in July in a 7 day mini Jazz Fest sort of thing that sounds like it's gonna be real cool. One of those performances will be this weekends performance by Diana Krall (ANOTHER WHOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO). Last night Kevin and I went out with some friends to hear Shannon Curfman play at the House of Blues and she was totally amazing. This kid is really going places. She did a great version of Tell Me Something Good by Rufus. We then went to hear my friend Beth Patterson (who will be singing Ladies of the Canyon accompanied by her own Bazouki) at JoniFest2000 New Orleans. David Lahm will be in New Orleans next week for rehearsals and I am loking forward to meeting him and spending time with this wonderful friend and musician. I am sorry I am not at all current with the list so please email me privatly if I am missing anything. I only have time to do the short emails and I will catch up with the 12 or so digests I am behind. Have a great weekend everone and I will be thinking of all you. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 18:51:19 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: Astronomy of the Big Bang; Was "we are stardust" njc I think calling that a theory is stretching it. I suspect that it's just speculation. I think the most promising place for discovery is in the field of singularities. The only place that singularities exist are at the centre of black holes once a star has basically imploded from it's own intense gravity and at the beginning of the universe. The interesting and probably unknowable question is where does our universe come from and where do those black hole singularities explode too. "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lamadoo)" wrote: > Debra wrote: > The older steady-state theory, the "always > existed, always will" idea, didn't need a creator in quite the same way. > > Now me: I read that there are theories about a set of possibilities that > were tumbled like dice before creation. At the moment of creation, all of > the possibilities for _this_ incarnation of the Universe were locked in for > the life of the Universe. So we have gravity but not mavity. We have 3 > physical dimensions plus something we colloquially refer to as "time". We > have electrons, protons, photons, and neutrons but we don't have n#+(, nor > do we have @~p, nor do we even have the *&x found so commonly in previous > incarnations. > > I hadn't heard this quote. Thanks for sharing it. I can imagine a New > Yorker cartoon of this idea too: > > You wrote: > There's a famous quote by Robert Jastrow, a well-known astrophysicist at the > time, something about climbing the huge mountain of knowledge only to find > that > theologians had been sitting there for hundreds of years. > > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:04:19 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: CSNY and guilty pleasures I just got back from a trip to Key West, FL and would recommend it to anyone! It was fantastic and quite the gay mecca. Before I left I got to see CSN&Y in concert! Did anyone else see their show? I couldn't believe how great it was. I was surprised when the paper said the show was 31/2 hours long. It seemed to fly by. I'm starting to really get into Neil Young's music. Does anyone have any recommendations for good Neil CD's? I have his new one and I like it, but I also like his more "rockin'" stuff. I've been skimming through the posts (a big job after only one week!) and just have to add my profound thoughts. The only thing that bothered me was the subject heading: "bad music." Who's to say what's bad or good music? Like any art, it is so subjective. Reviews and award shows make me crazy. If an artist touches the soul of someone, then there is something good to be found!! (Unless, it's Celine Dion) (Just kidding!!!!!) Also, how many of us have guilty pleasures and don't admit them? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:29:20 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. Ali G has just completed filming for a video. The video will be for the lead single from a music superstar's new album due in September. Which is not long before her second child is due as well. Three guesses who it is, and the first two don't count. ;-) - --Michael - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Intellects do not believe in God But they fear us just the same." - --Erykah Badu, "On and On" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:47:13 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. my personal hero, la madonna. alison e. - ---------- >From: michael w yarbrough >To: Jamie Zubairi >Subject: Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. >Date: Wed, May 3, 2000, 5:29 PM > > >Ali G has just completed filming for a video. The video will be for the >lead single from a music superstar's new album due in September. Which is >not long before her second child is due as well. > >Three guesses who it is, and the first two don't count. ;-) > >--Michael > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >"Intellects do not believe in God > But they fear us just the same." > >--Erykah Badu, "On and On" > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:49:00 GMT From: "Madell S" Subject: Re: New Member Hi Sara! I too have joined the list in the past few months and have been lurking around-pretty much for the same reason as yours. I'm 17 and it's intimidating to post to a list of mainly adults who have been listening to Joni for so many years and I'm just starting out. But I guess I am relieved that there is another young person out there I can talk to! Well I guess I should introduce myself and say that the first time I heard Joni was when I heard Amy Grant's cover of "BYT" and I remember being so struck by the line- "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got Till it's gone" And I remember writing this short story in my fifth grade class sort of based on that line. So that was my first encounter of Joni and I guess my next would be when I bought the Indigo Girl's 1200 Curfews and there is a cover of "River" on there. I fell in love with the song and shortly after that I bought the "Hits" CD and I now have added "Blue" "Taming the Tiger" and "Both Sides Now" to my small Joni collection. I don't really have a particular favorite Joni song but I am slowly acquainting myself with her music. It's a great journey :-) As far as the "good" music vs "bad" music debate recently, I'd like to add my own two cents. I personally don't listen to today's pop music. Most of it is pretty shallow and it doesn't do much for me. Sure the Backstreet Boys and N Sync harmonize well and the beats are catchy, but that's about it. I'm bored listening to that music and I enjoy listening to music that has a bit more thought put into it and not music that is written to be a #1 hit. Most of my friends listen to Eminem or Kid Rock or Christina Agulera(sp?) and I never have criticized their taste in music or said it was bad, I just tell them that I don't care for it. In 10 or 15 years, will we still be listening to the Backstreet Boys or 98 Degrees? I doubt it. Are we still listening to New Kids on the Block today? No. That music is for the present day pre-teen and teen. Once they have grown up, their tastes in music change and the music that was targeted for them slowly goes away. Well, this post has been long enough and I guess I should end it now. I just wanted to post my opinion coming a young person who is in the "targeted pop music" age range. :-) Thanks for your time and I'm glad to be among such great people! Madeline ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 00:47:29 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Too Much Monkee business (NJC) I've just noticed that Peter Tork, he of the sparkling white unblemished molars, is actually playing a gig at The Tin Angel in Philadelphia on May 14th with James Lee Stanley, and then on down to North Carolina for a couple of gigs before coming over to Europe, passing through London to play The Borderline on Saturday June 10th. PaulC (madly flossing!) NPIMH: "You'll wonder where the yellow went When you wash your teeth with Pepsodent" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 01:23:41 +0100 From: apso Subject: Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. Jamie Zubairi wrote: > > You really aren't missing anything... Ali G is a one-joke wonder. He's a > British Jewish comedian who is pretending to be a Pakistani who thinks he's > Jamaican.... Oh I thought he was a white boy doing a pretty good rip off of a certain type of black boy.(tho I have to say I was rather suprprised that he has his own show on Ch4 as this could be construed as overtly racist). Didn't notice the pakistani in him. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 01:26:30 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Nice Judds!NJC Here in the UK another name for breasts(women's) is Juggs. I was wondering if you knew this?! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:24:20 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: sF cONCERT I heard a rumour that there is talk of cancelling the SF concert because of poor sales, something like only 3,000 sold so far! Does anyone know about this? I will be heartbroken as I've never seen joni live and she is, of course, joni. UNfortunately, my access to a computer is no longer daily, but I'm anxiously awaiting any information. Oh God Please, NOOOOOOO Ken in SF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 01:48:54 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Ali G (was Travis NJC) still NJC. Jamie Zubairi wrote > You really aren't missing anything... Ali G is a one-joke wonder. Yes I think his show has been patchy. He was better in small but lethal doses on the 11 o clock show. I don't see either show getting another series. I do think however, that Daisy Donovan has risen above it all and will have a great career. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 18:02:10 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Speakeasy rerun and an apology For any Canadian listers who may have missed it the first time, MuchMoreMusic is replaying their interview with Joni tonight May 3 at 700 pm and 1000 pm Pacific Daylight Savings Time. And please let me apologize to the OnlyJoni listers for forgetting the NJC on a few of my previous posts. Blame it on the cold medication. Rick ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #230 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?