From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #227 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, May 2 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 227 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: - River / Travis(NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: today's musics (NJC) [catman ] New England NJC [catman ] Re: Marcel's Tribute Comments/Hillary - NJC [Marian ] RE: May 25th Gathering - NJC [Marian ] Re: Marcel's Tribute comments/Hillary NJC [Marian ] Re: Flo and Eddie (NJC) [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Hollywood Bowl Folks (NJC) [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: today's musics (SJC) [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: Hollywood Bowl Folks (NJC) [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: New England NJC - foreign places [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Flo and Eddy, Hillary, who chose? NJC [Marian ] Re: Another Cover [AsharaJM@aol.com] Videos [AsharaJM@aol.com] Flo & Eddie [Michael Cooper ] Judy Collins - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] dave matthews - njc [Siresorrow@aol.com] LA TICKETS! ["Leah Bolotin" ] Warren Zevon (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Joni Tribute Album [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Tribute Album (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Today's Music NJC [Les Irvin ] joni content in today' nytimes [Les Irvin ] RE: Entertainment Weekly ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: [RE: May 25th Gathering - NJC] [Loren Carter ] On Leno [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: today's musics (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Entertainment Weekly [Jerry Notaro ] Re: New England NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Marcel's Tribute Comments/Hillary - NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Today's Music NJC [michael w yarbrough ] Hillary again NJC [Howard Motyl ] we are stardust we are golden ["Hejira" ] Re: On Leno [Mark Domyancich ] The Clintons (VLJC) ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: joni content in today' nytimes [catman ] Music Business Career NJC [RainbowCrystal@webtv.net] Rap & The Monkees NJC ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: The Clintons (VLJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 03:26:12 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: - River / Travis(NJC) In a message dated 01/05/00 23:03:44 GMT Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > I saw travis on tv the other night but he was just one blonde young man > with a lovely smile and a good voice. perhaps he just gave the band the > night off. > Hi Colin, I think I saw that too. Was it on the AliG show? If so it was the lead singer. I guess they couldn't afford the rest of the band. The title of their album "The Man Who" was taken from the book "The man who mistook his wife for a hat". Just threw that in. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 08:47:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: today's musics (NJC) Rap, hip-hop - how many of us > over 40 would even bother to try & really listen to any of it? I have listened to plenty, not by choice. I hate it. Really.(it really jangles my nerves) But I wouldn't say it was bad-just not my type of music. I hated Punk Rock too. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 08:55:08 +0100 From: catman Subject: New England NJC This is part of what I wrote in response to a post from someone here-we both share the same feeling for the North east. I think it is odd. Just wondered what others think and if they have such feelings for a foreign land. 'Another thing we have in common-being drawn to the North East. That was the reason I did the road trip in New England. I have always had a yearning for that place. When I was there it made me very emotional-like I had returned home at last. Strange. You know, it really was like I was seeing the land again, rather than for the first time. The passion i felt felt was strong and brought unexplained tears to my eys many times in those 13 days. Three years later, I still feel homesick.' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:40:30 +0200 From: Marian Subject: Re: Marcel's Tribute Comments/Hillary - NJC On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:48:35 -0700 "James L. Leonard" wrote: > I too felt that Hillary's presence on the Tribute > was incredibly self-serving. I didn't see the clip, but if your basic opinion of the the Clintons is that they are "calculating and false", then anything they do is colored by that mindset. If objectivity were possible under any circumstances, everything you said is, IMO, at the other extreme. Personally, I think both Hillary and Bill have had as a central motivation the desire to serve the country and improve the lives of the American people, especially the less fortunate. Fortunately they have been able to accomplish a lot in spite of self-serving Republicans have attempted to thwart them at every turn and who have gloated at every opportunity to shame them or cast doubt on their characters. > Even had she not bungled the Chelsea reference, in > terms of *which* Chelsea the song was written about, > her appearance still would have amounted to nothing > more than 1) a political plug for herself, Maybe she was simply invited by the producers of the TNT show who had heard about how Chelsea was named and thought Hillary's appearance would be a nice touch. > and 2) an > effort to present her marriage as a happy, hand-in-hand > love affair...which, after the events of 1998-1999, and > in light of Bill's long, well-documented history of > sexual harrassment (Paula Jones, Juanita Broderick, > etc., etc., etc.) can only be construed (by me, at > least) as a crass attempt at historical revision for > the purpose of "legacy buillding." We all know that Bill Clinton has behaved with breathtaking stupidity, but why should Hillary be made to pay or be blamed for his misdeeds? Anyway, hasn't she already paid enough in public humiliation? I think she is/has been mad as hell at Bill for his stupidity, but not to the point of "I'm not gonna take it any more". IMO she has chosen to stay with Bill for reasons in addition to, and possibly even other than, "legacy building" and I don't think all of those reasons are self-serving. I find it amazing that she hasn't ditched him, but I admire that, too. Perhaps she can forgive him. Perhaps she's thinking of how Chelsea feels. There are a lot of other possible reasons than "legacy building" that we can never know without being able to look into the great mind of Hillary Clinton. Anyway, I don't think this particular part of history will ever be able to be rewritten, unless a millenium down the road the morals of our time have been superceded by more open and forgiving ones. This sordid little chapter will then perhaps seem humorous - like: "what was wrong with everyone? - it's hard to believe that everyone got so upset - how silly that it was such a big scandal! - - he was such a great president - what a pity that the folks didn't appreciate him!" > Her comments were > totally scripted, and seemed to be delivered without > much sincere warmth. Maybe she felt uncomfortable. Maybe she didn't want to be perceived as giving the impression that everything is fine and dandy with her and Bill. Maybe she didn't want to be perceived as making a political plug for herself. Maybe her comments were totally scripted by the producers. There are a lot of possible reasons for the way she came across that would have nothing to do with her political campaign. > I just wish the Clintons would choose to allow > themselves to fade from the public eye...and I'm > a fairly "liberal" Democrat. They both make me angry. > They're just so calculating and false. IMO, Hillary still has a strong drive to serve the American people and that is why she is seeking a seat in the Senate. I think she probably feels frustrated at being "the president's wife" - that she feels limited in what she can do by virtue of being in that position. I hope she succeeds in her senate race and that she'll run for president someday. Marian Vienna NP: It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding) - Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:30:47 +0200 From: Marian Subject: RE: May 25th Gathering - NJC Julian51469@aol.com wrote: > Please count me in on the festivities. That's great, Julian. So Loren, let's add Julian to the list. > (I hope I'm not crashing anyones party > here...please let me know if I am) Don't be silly! The more JMDLers, the merrier! Looking forward to meeting you, Julian! Marian Vienna NP: links vom himalaya - Broadlahn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:39:49 +0200 From: Marian Subject: Re: Marcel's Tribute comments/Hillary NJC Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:57:00 +0100 catman wrote: > Mark in Seattle wrote: >> but most wives aren't married to the President of the United >> States. > True-but I don't understand why that makes > a difference. Perhaps because of this, she > was in a better positon to make a stand. > except for her ambitions. Maybe Hillary genuinely likes/loves the man - enjoys his company. Maybe that's why she wants to stay with him. Just because many women would toss him out the door doesn't mean she feels like that or should feel like that. Maybe she's not planning to divorce him anywhere down the road. Only time will tell. Marian Vienna NP: West Point - Jonatha Brooke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 05:44:49 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Flo and Eddie (NJC) In a message dated 5/1/00 4:40:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << Hi, everybody. I just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents re Flo and Eddie (Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman)... >> Didn't they have an album called Moving Targets? No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 06:03:31 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Hollywood Bowl Folks (NJC) In a message dated 5/1/00 8:45:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << And you New York and East Coasters - Jimmy and Glen are performing at Feinsteins at the Regency in NYC May 16th through 20th. I guarantee it is worth checking out if you have the chance. >> And for you West Coasters, Glen Cambell will be doing the honors at this year's Hollywood Bowl Fourth of July festivities. July 2,3,&4. Also noticed on my mailer that Nancy Wilson will be at the Bowl on July 19, on September 24 Brian Wislon will be there doping his Pet Sounds Symphonic Tour, and Diana Krall andTony Bennett will be together on August 4-5 Tony Bennett will be there with our own COY gal - Diana Krall. The mailer was kinda hard to figure out - so, you should verify these dates if you are interested. I just got it today as a subscriber, so good seats can he da if you are planning any west coast trips this summer. Besides, there is noweher like the Bowl - it's lovely even with its horrible acoustics. No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 06:10:05 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: today's musics (SJC) In a message dated 5/1/00 9:55:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: << Now I'm not defending the pop machine, but I will say that the message resonated with alot of young girls (I worked on both Spice projects so I'm speaking from experience). It gave them confidence. I turned my nose up at it at first, (caring more about Massive Attack and Ben Harper) then I learned what it meant to these young girls. I'm sure other teen pop acts resonate somehow with pre-teens like the girls I met. >> Coyote Adds: It seems to be kinda like our evolution in eating food. When we are young, we ate things most of us would never eat today. But as we grow, our tastes long for something of more substance. I had my Monkees and Captain Crunch. Now it's Joni and Bran Flakes, no sugar (or spice) added... :-) No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 06:17:54 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Hollywood Bowl Folks (NJC) Sorry for the typos in the last post, I was reading and typing and not proofreading. So, Brian is not doing a dopey tour. By the way, If you want tickets, call the Bowl at (323) 850-2000. The also have a cool new website at www.hollywoodbowl.org. No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:28:11 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: New England NJC - foreign places In a message dated 5/2/00 12:56:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << I think it is odd. Just wondered what others think and if they have such feelings for a foreign land. >> Colin, Makes perfect sense to me! I grew up wanting to be anywhere but the small industrial New Jersey town where I grew up. When I heard "My Little Town" on Paul Simon's "Still Crazy After All These Years," I thought that for sure he was singing about Belleville. There are two places the rock me to the tips of my toes and beyond: the American Southwest, (specially the area around Carlsbad Caverns and the Painted Desert), and Paris. With the former, I felt a strange charge from the land itself, a very strong connection between my skin and the desert. I can't explain it and it blew my mind to experience it. I haven't been back in years, but I can sit here and still remember that electricity and awe. With the latter, I felt the charge coming from the past history of people. Walking through the streets of Paris, reading the little plaques commemorating some resistance struggle during WWII, sitting in the cathedrals and being very, very aware of the centuries of human experience that went on inside those walls. Often, my family couldn't understand why each small stroll contained unexplained sob fests or idiotic grins that nearly split my face. With both places, I knew no one from there, my parents, (who hated to travel), did not raise me with stories of these places nor did I particularly know any kind of detail about these places beforehand beyond the general stereotypes. I think that you can have soulmates and I think that you can have soulplaces. MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 14:32:13 +0200 From: Marian Subject: Re: Flo and Eddy, Hillary, who chose? NJC On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 15:51:52 EDT CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > That's why I personally don't care whether > Vermont chooses to legitimize "marriage" > between same sex people or a "civil union". > In the end, you don't need a "piece of paper > from the City Hall to keep you tied and true." I don't think the point is so much needing a piece of paper to keep *you* tied and true, as a piece of paper to ensure that your union is recognized by the laws - so that you can claim things like dependency allowances and survivors benefits and such without a lot of hassle. All states should change their laws. > Maybe other listers from outside the U.S. > would like to comment, but there isn't much > in the way of sexual/political scandals in > Europe. As long as European leaders are > discreet, the press doesn't exploit the > fact that a European leader may have a > mistress as well as a wife. There was a brief scandal in Austria about President Kleistil and his mistress - Kleistil's wife left him shortly after that. But in general, I would say that Europeans are more realistic and tolerant about relations between people and consider the media and Starr broohaha over Clinton ridiculous. Such media attention and federally funded investigative committees would never happen here. Apparently in Holland it is common for married persons to have two separate apartments and to have other partners in addition to the marriage partner. The children go freely between both places and are cared for by all the adults. In France and Austria, it is very common for married persons to have relationships and even children outside the marriage. I don't know how it is in Germany and other places. > Interestingly, the press is making much of > the fact that Austria's controversial new > leader has Nazi tendencies, You are probably referring to Joerg Haider, the now former leader of the Austrian Freedom Party. He has made statements in the past that have led people to believe that he has Nazi inclinations. The new Chancellor of Austria is Wolfgang Schuessel of the Austrian People's Party. This is a very conservative party, much like the Republican party in the USA and the Torries in the UK - into privatization of government run institutions and such. He made a coalition with the Freedom party (which he had vowed in his campaign speeches never to do!) in order to take control of the government after months and months of fruitless negotiations with the Austrian Socialist Party for a coalition government with them. He has no Nazi leanings whatsoever. The Freedom Party, mostly because of Haider, has attracted a lot of neo-Nazi type people in addition to people who are fed up with the bickering among the two main parties. It is the neo-nazi faction of the Freedom Party that makes their participation in the new coalition government so distasteful to everyone, even to most Austrians. The general Austrian opinion of Haider is that he says whatever he thinks the people who are listening to him want to hear. He stood down as head of the Freedom party allegedly in the hopes that Austria would be considered less of a pariah internationally, but I think this is a very calculated political move designed also to increase his popularity in Austria. > but they are not discussing his homosexuality. I'm not sure to whom you are referring here. Both Haider and Schuessel are happily married. Marian Vienna NP: fruehstueck am semmering - Broadlahn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:40:27 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Another Cover Bob wrote: << ...and I'll include an invitation to Boston for Labor Day too! ;~) >> YEEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:47:34 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Videos For everyone that is looking for the TNT Tribute, Letterman, Rosie, etc.: I have been away, and coming back late tomorrow night. Next week I will be working on finishing up the next 2 videos for the tape trees, and hopefully will be offering them soon. They will include the TNT special for those that missed it. Is there anyone out there that has good quality video equipment that has dubbing capabilities, that would be willing to act as a branch for this, and future trees? I especially need someone that can make PAL copies for others, so we can keep the cost down. Please e-mail me privately as soon as possible if you can help out, and let me know how many dubs you would be willing to make. Thanks! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:18:13 -0700 From: Michael Cooper Subject: Flo & Eddie Somebody said they didn't know what Flo and Eddie were up to these days. They are touring as The Turtles featuring Flo and Eddie, tho I suspect they are the only original Turtles (the rest of the musicians probably weren't even born in the 1960s!). Last year when my family was at Disney World they appeared as part of a "Flower Power" festival. They put on a very entertaining set, though it was brief. Flo nd Eddie can still create those great harmonies. By the way, Flo and eddie provide the great back up vocals on Bruce Sprinsteen's Hungry Heart. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:24:08 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Judy Collins - NJC Happy Birthday to Judy. 61 year old today. Jerry np: Judy Collins - Forever ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:30:16 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: dave matthews - njc i picked up a double live cd last week called Listner Supported. we've run threads before on d.m. and we talked once specifically about his live at luther college cd with tim reynolds. tim does not appear on this cd at all. i was reluctant to buy it as it might just be more of the same old same old. i've listened to it for a week now and i offer it high reccomendation. with no tim reynolds, every song takes on a different quality. there are more violins and saxaphones playing. it has a jazzier feel. it is making me very happy. pat np. two step. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 06:40:06 -0700 From: "Leah Bolotin" Subject: LA TICKETS! I have two tickets for the concert in LA that we are not going to be able to use. They are in row D, seats 62 and 64. We bought them for $33.50 each plus an $8 surcharge each. Please respond to listserve or email me directly at bolotin@pbworld.com or call me: work 206-382-5257, or home 206-781-8570 (Seattle). Thanks, Leah Bolotin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:52:38 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Warren Zevon (NJC) I liked this quote from Warren Zevon, discussing the sparsity of the arrangements on his latest album, 'Life 'll Kill You' "At some point I insisted on keeping the production down to a level to where I could faithfully recreate the album alone in saloons in Korea when my career goes down the toilet," Zevon explains. Paul C NP Mike McGoldrick - 'Fused' (one for Steve, Ashara, goodness, all with a broad-minded taste for flute-led Irish folk/jazz instrumental fusions - this ones for you, I feel sure. Jeez, I love it - how are your Irish accents? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:15:03 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Joni Tribute Album Just reading some old email that I saved and came across this post from Wally written back in September : The Joni Mitchell Tribute Album is now finished and scheduled for release before the end of the year. Chaka Khan, Elvis Costello, Bjork, Etta James, Janet Jackson and others have recorded their favorite Joni songs for this long-overdue salute to one of the best songwriters of our generation. I should have a complete track-listing for you soon.> Does anyone know what happened to this project? It may have been posted, but I can't remember. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 10:58:49 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Tribute Album (NJC) In a message dated 5/2/00 10:34:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobm@kayaker.com writes: << Now we're even for that 'skating' post of yours, you rascal! :~D >> SMARTY PANTS!!! LOL btw, yesterday it was Ashara with her new addy Dolphnwomn@aol.com, and now you with bobm@kayaker.com.! You've used Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com, RMuRocks@aol.com, & SCJoniGuy@aol.com. Is there some kind of identity crisis that we don't know about Bob? :>) Jimmy NP: Chaka Kahn "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:18:49 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Today's Music NJC From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:52:07 -0400 << Rap, hip-hop - how many of us > over 40 would even bother to try & really listen to any of it? >> (Bob in SC here) Me! Me! I haven't responded on much of this, mostly because my AOL addy at work has gone wacky on me, but I do have to chime in briefly. To dismiss a whole genre means that you will miss out on some good music. I enjoy some rap/hip-hop stuff; matter of fact I picked up Arrested Development's debut this weekend - I had it on a tape a while ago but lost it, and remembered what a wonderful record it was. Likewise, The Roots "Things Fall Apart" (maybe they got the title from the line in 'Slouching'?) from last year was one of my faves of 1999. De La Soul was one of the more creative bands out there. PM Dawn are one of my favorite bands, and of course a heavy Joni influence there as well. If you haven't heard "The Ways of the Wind" where they start with the opening riff to "I Had a King" and then blend into their own melody, it is an absolute joy! Anyway, I could go on & on - like Pop music has ALWAYS been, there's some crap and some good. To say it all sucks makes you sound like your parents did when they were your age, and remember how dumb THEY were! ;~) PS: I was and still profess to be a big Monkees fan - great songs, written by the likes of Harry Nilsson (Cuddly Toy), Carole King (Pleasant Valley Sunday), Boyce & Hart (lots). PPS: I'm certainly not holier than thou on this issue...I dismiss most Classical & Country music without giving it a proper listen. The Messiah, of course, I have heard and am qualified to pass judgement! ;~) Bob NP: Aimee Mann, "Save Me" (Live) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:18:02 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: joni content in today' nytimes From: "patrick leader" Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:48:48 -0400 i'm snipping some of this. she starts the article bitching about the current divas, sets aretha above the current trash in a manner that can only be called 'damning with faint praise': >Aretha Franklin is exempt. Her voice is a faint outline of what it was, but it was lovely once, and gets off a truly evil (and hysterical) comment about miss ross >"She's Norma Desmond," said a friend. "If you're a baby boomer you pretend you still worship her. If you're young, you get turned into horror-stricken William Holden." oof!! but here she continues about joni: - ----------- So when I listen to new recordings by three singers, all with extensive diva credentials, I think: Please! Give them some elbow room. Just let them keep mapping out new routes on the landscape of popular music. Joni Mitchell has been born and reborn as a goddess of song. In her new CD, "Both Sides Now" (Warner Brothers), she takes standards from Tin Pan Alley and joins them to standards of her own ("A Case of You" plus the title song) to make a song cycle. It follows a love affair from its start ("You're My Thrill" and "At Last") to its disintegration and demise ("You've Changed" and "Don't Worry 'Bout Me"). And then on to those recovery efforts that start with defiance ("I Wish I Were in Love Again," though she doesn't make it taut or tart enough) and end with philosophizing ("Both Sides Now," which she does beautifully). Desolation recollected in tranquillity. You hear the singers she has listened to -- Billie Holiday in her "Lady in Satin" period, Etta James in her soul-torch mode -- but Ms. Mitchell isn't just basking or borrowing. She's working with a changed instrument, a voice that's no longer high and pearly, but (which I like much better) is lower and grainy. She has worked with jazz musicians for some time, and her songs have gotten more and more unpredictable. She is experimenting with different ways of shaping language and music. How can this not be a good thing for a singer-songwriter? Why are so many of them content to live year after year not only with their own gifts, but within their own limitations? - ----------- the other divas she speaks positively about are audra mcdonald (no argument from me, there, the new album is stellar) and ute lemper. email me off list if you want me to send it or try this link; maybe you'll be able to bypass the time's irritating logon process patrick np - woodstock live - csn - 1994 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 11:01:49 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Entertainment Weekly Paul I. wrote: "It's also not proved from this that the Clintons thought it was Judy's song. They like her recording; she's a prominent folkie who would likely support a candidate like Bill, as most the Hollywood and the recording industry did. Furthermore, she's American. Paul I" Hey, I hate to break a long streak of agreeing with Paul I. over the last week or two, but I'm going to "half disagree" on this one. I clearly remember reading an article either right before Bill Clinton was elected or shortly after he was inaugurated in which Hillary claimed that their daughter was named after "Chelsea Morning, an old Judy Collins song." Now she still could have been referring to Judy's *version* of the song, but I remember coming away from the article at the time believing that Hillary, like a vast percentage of humanity, believed that Judy had written Joni's song. Of course, that was nearly a decade ago, and I'm sure there have been ample opportunities for those in the know to point out the truth to her! And, regardless of whether or not Hillary was mistaken about the authorship of "Chelsea Morning," she still could have been a Joni fan. In any event, I certainly don't think being mistaken about one song years ago makes Hillary a hypocrite for appearing on the tribute, as JMDLers other than Paul I. have suggested--or in any way lessens her sincere appreciation of that song. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: 2 May 00 12:28:12 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: Re: [RE: May 25th Gathering - NJC] Marian, At Catgirls suggestion, I attempted to create a group mailing list at onelist.com. To date that attempt has failed miserably, their system won't send me my verification e-mail, so that I can start to set one up. I've emailed their tech support and asked ....Wuz UP with that? AS soon as I hear something and get it going I'll announce something. If not, I'll perform as a ring master and try to herd everyone to a common meet and greet, manually if need be. Julian, since you live up there in Columbia (I'm in Laurel), and MArian has expressed an interest in good Mexican or Thai or Vietnamese food, do you know of a place that would serve for a gathering? Loren....who's looking forward (with baited breath) to meeting Marian, Catgirl, and the rest of the DC listers. Note: I'll quit eating bait a couple of days before the concert and brush regularly. ;-) Marian wrote: > Julian51469@aol.com wrote: > > > Please count me in on the festivities. > > That's great, Julian. So Loren, let's add Julian to the list. > > > (I hope I'm not crashing anyones party > > here...please let me know if I am) > > Don't be silly! The more JMDLers, the merrier! Looking forward > to meeting you, Julian! > > Marian > Vienna > > NP: links vom himalaya - Broadlahn ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:46:11 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: On Leno Ha! Imagine that.....as soon as Ben Harper's name shows up on the list three times yesterday, he has a spot on national TV. :-) He's the musical guest on Leno tomorrow night, 5/3. I was looking to see who else is on Leno with Joni next Monday night.....Emelio Estevez and Connie Nielsen. Who's Connie Nielsen? Not to be rude, but I hope she (nor Emelio) have a whole lot to say. ;~D One more thing, remember the first time Joni did the Leno show? The first guest that night was Oprah. (Oprah said she had to leave right after her spot, so wasn't on the couch for Joni's performance or the interview portion.) So it stands to reason that Joni and Oprah have met, even if it was just for a short time back in the green room. Maybe they didn't mesh to awfully well, and that has something to do with Joni not being on her show yet. You don't suppose Joni went on one of her rants, pre-show, to Oprah dissing popular women singers, with some of Oprah's fave female singers Whitney and Mariah, do you? ;~D Haha! And now thinking about Emelio's ex-wife...... "I'm not above gossip" ;~) Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:31:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: today's musics (NJC) - --- catman wrote: > Rap, hip-hop - how many of us > > over 40 would even bother to try & really listen > to any of it? > I have listened to plenty, not by choice. I hate it. > Really.(it really > jangles my nerves) But I wouldn't say it was > bad-just not my type of > music. I hated Punk Rock too. I'd have a hard time saying that I hate a whole genre of music. I can't say that I hate rap, because I've heard some good rap; likewise, good punk; good country and western. There are even, dare I say it, some songs by (oh noooooooooo!) Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston and Celine Dion (their bouncy, fast ones, not the bloody ballads) that I actually enjoy, even though their style of singing isn't something I would normally listen and, no, I do not own any of their CDs. I actually think it's a good thing that our kids aren't into the same music that we are - it shows they have minds of their own and are branching off into their own direction. While it may not necessarily be our cup of tea, it shows they can think for themselves (sort of - there's peer pressure too). What they listen to at 12 or 13 is probably going to change a lot in the next few years - now that will be interesting! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:55:18 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Entertainment Weekly "Pitassi, Mary" wrote: > > > In any event, I certainly don't think being mistaken about one song years > ago makes Hillary a hypocrite for appearing on the tribute, as JMDLers other > than Paul I. have suggested--or in any way lessens her sincere appreciation > of that song. Nor do I. My explanation was as to why Judy would have been invited rather than Joni and whether that made the Clintons hypocrites. It makes sense to me that Judy would invited because it was the performer of the song they admired, not necessarily the author. But it is also true that they thought Judy wrote the song, as I did also when it became so popular. Wildflowers was THE record of my senior year. And I also don't think it is sinister to recognize the talent of the author once that is realized. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:34:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: New England NJC - --- catman wrote: > This is part of what I wrote in response to a post > from someone here-we > both share the same feeling for the North east. I > think it is odd. Just > wondered what others think and if they have such > feelings for a foreign > land. > > 'Another thing we have in common-being drawn to the > North East. That was > the reason I did the road trip in New England. I > have always had a > yearning for that place. When I was there it made me > very emotional-like > I had returned home at last. Strange. You know, it > really was like I was > seeing the land again, rather than for the first > time. The passion i > felt felt was strong and brought unexplained tears > to my eys many times > in those 13 days. Three years later, I still feel > homesick.' > Synchronicity again? I don't know but, when I was a kid, our family used to go to New England for summer vacation. We would pass through New Hampshire and Vermont and go to Maine. I was in Cape Cod once too. It's a long time since I've been there, but it still has a special place in my heart. There is just something about New England and I would love to go back and take my kids there. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:54:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Marcel's Tribute Comments/Hillary - NJC - --- Marian wrote: >if your basic opinion of > the the > Clintons is that they are "calculating and false", > then anything > they do is colored by that mindset. If objectivity > were possible > under any circumstances, everything you said is, > IMO, at the other > extreme. > > Personally, I think both Hillary and Bill have had > as a central > motivation the desire to serve the country and > improve the lives > of the American people, especially the less > fortunate. Personally, I really admire Hillary Clinton. She comes across a very intelligent, very caring person who does have America's best interests at heart, and who has managed to rise above her husband's foolishness, which is only outdone by the foolishness of the self-serving Ken Starr et al. I don't find her calculating or false at all (unless shes's *really* good at it!). I hope she runs for president one day - I think she would make a great one, although I doubt if the USA is ready for a woman president. Too many Republicans! Anyway, I'm not American, can't vote there, so I'll just get my nose out of it now! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:56:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: today's musics (SJC) - --- AngelinoCoyote@aol.com wrote: > It seems to be kinda like our evolution in eating > food. When we are young, > we ate things most of us would never eat today. But > as we grow, our tastes > long for something of more substance. I had my > Monkees and Captain Crunch. > Now it's Joni and Bran Flakes, no sugar (or spice) > added... :-) Maybe kids actually NEED sugar (of all kinds) to grow! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 12:14:35 -0500 (CDT) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: Today's Music NJC Bob M wrote: > Likewise, The Roots > "Things Fall Apart" (maybe they got the title from the line in 'Slouching'?) The root (HA!) of all the references is of course the Yeats poem which Joni set to music. It has special meaning in black contexts because Yoruba novelist Chinua Achebe used it as the title for his debut novel about the arrival of colonialism to his people. On rap: there definitely is a lot of bias against it on this list. Witness the recent dismissive Busta Rhymes reference; Busta is one of the most inventive artists and performers in *any* genre is the past several years. (Actually, it's been much longer than that; he was featured in A Tribe Called Quest's classic single "Scenario" almost ten years ago.) The Roots and Arrested Development are hip-hop artists whose level of musicianship and melody are strong enough for almost anyone on this list to appreciate. I've also been meaning to recommend the Black Eyed Peas to Bob for awhile. Very much in the De La Soul vein, their album has very little profanity or "n" words, and features Macy Gray on vocals on one tune. And before everyone starts to good-naturedly badmouth the Monkees, let me remind you of Cassandra Wilson's great cover of "Last Train to Clarksville." That song ain't so bad. A lot of times we get hung up on who wrote the song or whatever. They may be valid in terms of assigning credit (a somewhat pointless exercise anyway), but *never* let it get in the way of enjoying a good song. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:06:55 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Hillary again NJC I really don't understand the Hillary bashing--from anyone. I am now and have been perplexed at why people seem to hate her so much. I brought this up to a friend of mine and he said it is the same way we hated Reagan and Nancy. But I don't remember hating Nancy with such vehemence and vitriol. (She actually scored a half point with me when I found out she was reading horrorscopes and using astrology.) Is it simply because she is a strong-willed woman? (So, instantly, she becomes a bitch. What is a strong-willed man called?) Is it becuz she seems to be humorless--and if she is, why do we hold it against her? Would we hold it against a man as much? She is a strong, independent, intelligent, thoughtful woman and, yes, calculating woman. So, why do people hate her? Elizabeth Dole held these same qualities and people loved her. Well, Republicans loved her. Those Republicans. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:18:30 +0100 From: "Hejira" Subject: we are stardust we are golden Hi I have just got back from an astronomy presentation about the formation of the universe (I know my life is very sad) The over head at the beginning had the title of the talk and people who were doing it with the quote " we are golden we are star dust we are billion year old carbon" the quote however was credited to a Doctor Tony Prave (at which point I almost jumped up and wanted to shout out it was Joni but thought better of it ) does anyone know who he is and whether Joni was quoting him in woodstock? Thanks for any help Best Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 13:25:04 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: On Leno I honestly don't think Oprah and Joni would mix together very well. Oprah claims every musical act on her show are huge influences on her (even the Bee Gees). Most of the audience, I'm sure, are thirty somethings who have only heard BSN and claim Judy wrote it. NP-Paprika Plains (I didn't listen to any Joni today! WTH's wrong with me?) :D At 9:46 AM -0700 5/2/00, Penny wrote: >One more thing, remember the first time Joni did the Leno show? The >first guest that night was Oprah. (Oprah said she had to leave right >after her spot, so wasn't on the couch for Joni's performance or the >interview portion.) So it stands to reason that Joni and Oprah have >met, even if it was just for a short time back in the green room. Maybe >they didn't mesh to awfully well, and that has something to do with Joni >not being on her show yet. You don't suppose Joni went on one of her >rants, pre-show, to Oprah dissing popular women singers, with some of >Oprah's fave female singers Whitney and Mariah, do you? ;~D Haha! >And now thinking about Emelio's ex-wife...... - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net Tape trading --> homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:30:12 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: The Clintons (VLJC) Hi, again, everybody. I'm very new here, as you likely know, and I'm kinda sorry at this point that I helped start a debate about the Clintons. Nevertheless... Several things have been said since then that I'd like to respond to: For one, I'd like to know which policies the Clintons have advanced to help the less fortunate. Welfare Reform, the Republican initiative which Clinton signed on the eve of the 1996 Democratic Convention as a way to prove his "centrist" props? Bill and Hillary's "feel your pain" propaganda has always seemed to work for them, and I just don't understand why people have continued to buy into the style...over the substance of the facts. Secondly, with regard to Clinton's impeachment, there were issues that were far more important than that of his time-consuming, frequent dalliances with Lewinsky. The House Managers made a fatal error in presenting their case to the Senate by concentrating on the tawdry. Aside from the obvious instances of perjury and obstruction of justice, for which Clinton has been fined by the female judge presiding over Paula Jones, there was creditable evidence presented in the Starr Report, for instance, that on one occasion Clinton was being serviced by Lewinsky *while* on the phone in the Oval Office discussing the deployment of troops to Bosnia. There was another "session" which resulted in a delay in a meeting with a head of state (Spain, if I remember right). Also in the Starr Report: During the frequent, dead-of-night phone-sex sessions, Clinton did not use a secured line! There is good intelligence that suggests the Israelis monitored these calls! Imagine if the calls had been recorded by an enemy state, and used as blackmail (we all saw the lengths Clinton went to to deny the relationship, before the dress emerged). The conduct of Clinton in the workplace(!) with an intern(!), the amount of time he devoted to the planning of the labyrinthine details necessary for rendezvous with Lewinsky while "on the job," the hours he spent on the phone with Lewinsky when, as president, he should have been resting, his breach of national security guidelines...*these* should have been presented to the House in the original articles of impeachment, along with the perjury and obstruction charges. Had Clinton been discovered to be having an affair with a non-subordinate he kept at an apartment in Georgetown, and had not been obsessed with having sex (or in Wiley's case, attempting to have sex) in the White House, I would agree with those that say his conduct was his and Hillary's business. I don't even want to get started on bombing the African aspirin factory the day Lewinsky testified before the grand jury, the fundraising abuses, the possible Chinese influences, the renting of the Lincoln bedroom, etc... I *am* a liberal Democrat. I will be at the polls in November to proudly vote for Gore. I stand by my earlier comment that I wish the Clintons (yeah, Hillary too) would now be content to fade from the public eye. Ambitions? They've *achieved* their ambitions, as far as I'm concerned. They've had eight years as the president and first lady, for crying out loud, and they're about to enter the exalted and influential realm of ex-president and ex-first lady, where much can be done. Ask the Carters and the Fords. Aside from presiding over a good economy, for which the credit is widespread, there hasn't been much accomplished by them, aside from further damage to our respect for our leaders. I felt used by Hillary's turn at the Tribute, and I felt that Joni was used, too. I wonder how Joni felt about it, really. "Boston Jim" (who's just made his last political post to the list, I hope) NP: "Silver and Gold," Neil Young ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:42:35 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: joni content in today' nytimes Who is it that is saying all this? colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:09:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Hillary again NJC Howard Motyl wrote: > > I really don't understand the Hillary bashing--from anyone. I am now > and have been perplexed at why people seem to hate her so much. Blimey, I didn't realise people HATED her so. And no I am not being sarcastic. I truly didn't see anything that indicated she was hated. At least not here. Having opinions or criticisms doesn't impley hatred, not to me anyway. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:34:00 -1000 (HST) From: RainbowCrystal@webtv.net Subject: Music Business Career NJC Aloha Carol, I'm sure Marcel was just being funny and not making fun of you at all. Sure there's a lot of fakeness in the music and most big busness, and it deserves to be exposed for the B.S. it is. I hope by now you can laugh along with everyone else and be thankful that you got some "serious" leads too! Hopefully, good people like yourself and others from this list, will help uplift the vibe from the media channels by making their careers within that system, and those types of "jokes" will no longer be relevant. I'm sorry you took this personally, but again I know it was not meant to be a personal insult and Marcel was only being humorous, not mean. Rainbow in Hawaii ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 15:53:11 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: Rap & The Monkees NJC Michael said: <> Thanks for that info, Michael, and thanks too for the heads up on the Black Eyed Peas! <> And I saw REM tear up "Stepping Stone" onstage as well...my comments about the writers were just to lend credence to the quality of their stuff - even if they were "manufactured", they had some great talent behind them... Bob NP: XTC, "Sacrificial Bonfire" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 16:35:06 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: The Clintons (VLJC) In a message dated 5/2/00 2:29:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << I felt used by Hillary's turn at the Tribute, and I felt that Joni was used, too. I wonder how Joni felt about it, really. >> i can certainly understand how you felt toward this. i'm not sure all the reasons why, but i did not get this strong reaction from the clip. i was mostly disappointed that it was a clip and i thought it would have been really cool if she had actually showed up. but overall, it made me think that even the whitehouse has connected with the music of joni mithcell and to me, chelsea hotel or chelsea france or chelsea london or wherever they were didn't matter. i make liberal interpretations of songs all the time and convince myself that a line was made for me, even if it wasn't. i was meant to hear it, and that is good enough. i'm not denying your right to feel as you do. i am just saying that i watched the same show and didn't get the sense of being used. i liked the fact that the first lady was part of the show. and i did think it would have been cooler if she were actually there. pat ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #227 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?