From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #214 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 25 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 214 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Julia (was toontown....) NJC [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Elian NJC ["Alan Lorimer" ] Tribute List [Michael Paz ] a joni dream (NJC)(NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: feed back and thanks from Kurt [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] from another list [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni Mitchell 2000 U.S. tour - a request [Guitarpoint@aol.com] Re: a joni dream (NJC)(NJC) [Guitarpoint@aol.com] Re: feed back and thanks from Kurt [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: tribute CD [Pbart123@aol.com] Re: I Wish I Were In Love Again (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] did she look old, ??? [Treehuggergirl25@aol.com] Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] (no subject) [Treehuggergirl25@aol.com] Re: friends and joni [Catherine McKay ] Re: here in DC (NJC) [Lori Fye ] Jane Griffin ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #207 ["Mike Hicks" ] Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Marking content ["cassy" ] On a Tribute, 10 Questions (...maybe there were more) [Bounced Message ] Re: I Wish I Were In Love Again (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: here in DC (NJC) [RSTM@aol.com] Re: toontown, krall, and giving up baby [Catherine McKay ] new member's thoughts [Lucy Ijams ] Re: new member's thoughts [Jerry Notaro ] Re: new member's thoughts [Don Rowe ] Re: here in DC (NJC) [Janet Hess ] I need to go digest! [WrknPrgss@aol.com] Re: here in DC (NJC) [catman ] Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC [catman ] Re: new member's thoughts [catman ] Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] pre-concert gathering, 5/22 (njc) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: a joni dream (NJC)(NJC) [Don Rowe ] Elian Hyperbole (cynical NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Elian Hyperbole (cynical NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Elian Hyperbole (cynical NJC) ["Alison Einerson" ["Alison Einerson" ] Elian: my last related post [very NJC-long] [MDESTE1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 00:05:19 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Julia (was toontown....) NJC Replying to Jim's attempt to use the word 'pentimento', Mark writes: <> Loved both the movie and the memoir! The narrative from the movie: "Old paint on canvas, as it ages, sometimes becomes transparent. And when that happens it is possible, in some pictures, to see the original line. A tree will show through a woman's dress. A child makes way for a dog. A boat is no longer on the open sea. That is called pentimento, because the painter repented, changed his mind." Although it's been over twenty years since I read the book, the above doesn't sound like the full quote from the book. Is it? Does anyone know / remember? And while we're on the subject, did anyone ever figure out who Julia was, from which high society East coast family? BTW, Lillian Hellman was one of the four women I had always wanted to meet. Jacky O, Kate Hepburn, and Joni being the other three. ;-) Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:00:38 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Elian NJC I think it would have been wrong if they had shot him. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:16:52 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Tribute List on 4/25/00 2:00 AM, JMDL Digest at les@jmdl.com bounced for Kurt: > Not performed, but perhaps should have. > > 1. Micheal from Mountains > 2. Ladies of the Canyon > 3. The Last Time I saw Richard > 4. Court and Spark > 5. Edith and the King Pin > 6. Coyote > 7. Jericho > 8. Cotton Avenue > 9. The Hissing of Summer Lawns > 10. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire > 11. God Must Be A Boogie Man > 12. Cherokee Louise > 13. Sunny Sunday > 14. My Secret Place > 15. Happiness is the Best Facelift > 16. Man from Mars > 17. Love Puts On a New Face > 18. Blue Hotel Room > 19. Cactus Tree > 20. Rainy Night House > 21. Willie > 22. Talk to Me > 23. The Gallery > 24. I don't know where I stand > 25. Good Friends > 26. Dog Eat Dog > 27. Turbulent Indigo Kurt- Most of these songs WILL be performed at JoniFest2000 New Orleans. An excellent opportunity for your to sign up and be a part of the joy that will be this Memorial Day Weekend in New Orleans. Shamelessly plugged, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:55:23 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: a joni dream (NJC)(NJC) I had a Joni dream last night (so hit your delete key if you don't want to read it) besides it was a slow Monday on the JMDL....unlike Catgirls list. I was on vacation somewhere up north (i think Canada), and I ran into Joni at the hotel where we both were staying. She was with her best friend Diana (don't know where I came up with that) and some people from her management team. She was soooo nice to me and she was in a silly mood. I do remember asking her if she knows who the JMDL is and she *definitely* does, so Kakki you're right and we can all sleep better now :~). Anyway, I was telling Joni and the gang that I was really looking forward to the tour. They all kind of rolled their eyes and laughed. "What tour? There wasn't enough ticket sales, so half the cities were cancelled." I set them all straight to that silly notion, and she was pretty happy. Here's the strange part..............We talked about some new songs that she'd be doing and she points across the room. I picked up her guitar thinking she was going to play, and she say's "No, click on the stereo" It was her rendition of Jimi Hendrix's "The Wind Cries Mary". That was it! I have to stop eating before I go to bed at night! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:26:01 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: feed back and thanks from Kurt <> Kurt, I don't know of ANY Joni song I wouldn't enjoy being covered by another artist, so whichever ones you left out on your list, I add them! :~) <> One of these days...hearing his sensual take on ACOY or Crazy Cries would be bliss! <<2. Chaka Khan, I just adore her.>> She definitely has the pipes, I hope when she gets another shot she doesn't turn in into "Scream 3" like she did at Joni's Jazz. <<3. Aimee Mann, I think she is a strong singer songwriter who superficially resembles Joni Mitchell.>> And more importantly, has the vulnerability to emote the songs... <<7. Macy Gray, I think she would be interesting to see her sing a folk song.>> I dunno, I wouldn't pick something from the folk idiom for her funky voice - more likely something from HOSL-Mingus. (But *anything* would be fine, Macy!) <<8. Tony Bennet, hey why not.>> Because it would be extremely predictable... <<15. Ray Charles, The Last Time I saw Richard, what a choice>> Yes, it would be the strangest pairing of singer and song so far in this millenium! :~) You sure you wouldn't want to give him "The Magdalene Laundries"? For my money, I'd love to hear Mr. Charles do a soulful take on "Ethiopia"...I'd be weepin' after the first syllable! <<16. Jewel>> I totally buy this, I'd like to hear her do something from STAS...Night in the City, Marcie, Cactus Tree... <<17. The Rolling Stones>> It would have to be the right tune, something like Wild Things Run Fast...they would really be limited. Instead of some old relic burn-out band, I'd love to hear from one of the 90's bands that mattered; Dave Matthews, Radiohead, Wilco, Son Volt, Counting Crows, Ben Folds Five (Ooooh, Imagine Ben playing some of Joni's piano stuff - they're one of the few that could tackle "Paprika Plains", I think). I dig the Stones as much as the next guy but they just don't work that hard anymore. <<18. The Jefferson Airplane, slash Starship 19. Jackson Brown 20. CSN and Y>> Again, these would be OK, Browne above all, but I'd prefer to hear from someone up and coming or riding their peak, not someone who's better days are literally decades behind them...although that doesn't apply to Young, whose new record is out today and is supposed to be fantastic! Hope you didn't take any offense, Kurt, you wanted to know what I thought so I told you! :~) Bob NP: "Sunny Sunday" from Autry Museum show ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:56:40 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC In a message dated 4/25/00 3:07:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << Replying to Jim's attempt to use the word 'pentimento', Mark writes >> you know down in the south, they make these sandwiches called pentimento cheese sandwiches. they are made up of grated cheddar cheese and sliced pentimentoes and a little bit of maytonaise. in fact, they put maytonaise in just about everything down here. pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:57:13 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: from another list Saw this on another music list: 2) my "latest discovery" would have to be Joni Mitchell. although i am obviously late in the game, i saw the tribute on TV and decided it was time to give her music a try. i bought her new CD and it blew me away. other than Joni, i haven't listened to much else since Audra released her second album I love hearing about people just discovering Joni. We know what joy that will bring them for a long time to come. Jerry np: Richard Thompson - Woodstock (KICK ASS!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:59:34 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell 2000 U.S. tour - a request << WOW!! If anybody knows for sure that they will meet hrt I would love to get an autograph as well...>> Hey Catgirl, of all the people in the world, you would be the person that I would do that for. Dave c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:05:21 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: a joni dream (NJC)(NJC) << I had a Joni dream last night>> << That was it! I have to stop eating before I go to bed. >> Jimmy keep eating before you go to bed. I don't eat before I go to bed and my Joni dreams are usually of her at my mothers Tupperware parties, and she's having a good time. Dave c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:26:38 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: feed back and thanks from Kurt Things Id like to hear Sweet Honey on the pot doing Communication Breakdown ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:55:53 EDT From: Pbart123@aol.com Subject: Re: tribute CD Any chance of this CD version of the tribute becoming a tree??? I would be happy to branch. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:57:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: I Wish I Were In Love Again (NJC) - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: >I guess I better respond before I get > more private replies from > some of the new JMDLer's (not you of course) that > don't know of my silly > posts. > The only way I could ever go to the Olympics is if I > were hired to work in a > hotdog stand. I can't walk and chew gum let alone > skate. > I do think that IWIWILA (that's a new anagram) would > be a great song for > figure skating or at least a great song for Gene > Kelly to dance on the > ceiling too! You suckered me in, that's for sure! Maybe you can't skate, but you could probably direct someone else - is it possible to be a choreographer without knowing how to dance? I kind of think so - I've sometimes had these ideas in my head of dance numbers inspired by particular pieces of music that I hear and, IMO, they're brilliant ;) Problem is, I can't dance! Your routine sounds great - maybe if you work it all out in your head, you could put on some skates and go for it - - after all, 2002 is 2 years away! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:02:17 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: from another list In a message dated 4/25/00 9:00:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << Jerry np: Richard Thompson - Woodstock (KICK ASS!) >> librarians are wicked. go R.T. pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:03:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: different perspective on Elian (NJC) > Just think of how much food the money spent on the > Elian case could buy... how many children could > be helped or saved... Anne, you are SO right on. Thank you for steering us back to reality. Lori in DC NPIMH: Jonatha Brooke, "West Point" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:05:10 EDT From: Treehuggergirl25@aol.com Subject: did she look old, ??? You know, i didn't even realize it. I am just always amazed because I think she is one of the most beautiful people I (don't) know. I don't even know how i got hooked. My mom used to have a Judy Collins record that covered Both Sides Now, and i must have wondered what the real thing sounded like. And it was all downhill from there. I am thinking about driving to either chicago or PHilly to see her play. I live in Akron Ohio, so it would be a bit of a drive. How is she live? Would anyone recommend the trip? By the way, i'm new to the list. My name's Angela, i'm a 25 year old B.F.A Photography grad. Grew up in Maine.....Living in Ohio with my cat Franny (as in Franny and Zoe) Drywall. I listen to a lot of different kinds of music, but, as for certain artists, I have a lot of Joni, Arlo, and the Dead. woo hoo! talk to you all later, angela Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:04:22 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts Penny said << BTW, do other's think Joni has aged 10 years in the last two? >> And Bob said: >While she looked a lot older on the Tribute show, I thought she looked much >younger on Rosie, and even Rosie commented how good she looked. I imagine >it's the different lighting and makeup. Joni looks great, but I also was struck by the difference in her appearance recently, and the way she looked close up post-PWWAM. I guess we all fall victim to time and other thieves.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:11:35 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC Pat writes: << << Replying to Jim's attempt to use the word 'pentimento', Mark writes >> you know down in the south, they make these sandwiches called pentimento cheese sandwiches. they are made up of grated cheddar cheese and sliced pentimentoes and a little bit of maytonaise. in fact, they put maytonaise in just about everything down here. pat >> Pat I think you mean "pimiento" sandwhiches which I was forced to eat as a child. YUCK!..............and yes mayonaise is one of the major food groups down here! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:11:53 EDT From: Treehuggergirl25@aol.com Subject: (no subject) Yep, I think that part was sad. Not to sound like some crazy fan, but it made me a little sad too. I think i just assumed she was a happy person. I hate for anyone to feel that way. .......A Buckminster Fuller play? wow. - -angela Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:27:47 -0700 From: Sue Glumac >Spyder8@webtv.net wrote: >After reading the transcript of The Today show interview (which I >unfortunately missed) some of Joni's comments disturbed me: > In her own words JM says, >" This is not a time for me you know, Its the shallowest, most >unromantic time. It's not my time..." >Katie comments, 'While Joni Mitchell does continue, her voice has >changed, and she says she's blocked an cannot write songs now...she does >not feel needed.." I was also surprised and disturbed by that comment. I've heard her talk about how she has rich people problems and noone wants to hear about them, but I've never heard her talk about being blocked. In fact, I appreciate the social commentary in her later albums (Ethiopia, Justice, Sex Kills, Borderline) as much as her more personal/confessional writing. But I also wanted to put her comments in perspective. I was fortunate to see a one man play last weekend based on the writings and thinking of Buckminster Fuller -(remember him?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:12:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: friends and joni - --- Guitarpoint@aol.com wrote: > << blinders on to Joni >> > > Dear Ann Landers > My wife has > blindres on to Joni Mitchells > music. I thought she like her when we were dating > but after the papers were > signed and thering went on I realized she doesn't > like Joni that much. Help > Me in Phila. Dave > Dear Help me in Phila, You have a major problem there, son. Here's what you have to ask yourself: would I be better off WITH her or WITHOUT her? Sincerely, Anne. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 07:19:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: here in DC (NJC) Janet wrote: > Today has been African American Family Day at the > zoo, and I've watched delighted as scores of folks > passed under my windows bearing balloons and smiles. > So suddenly all is changed. Of all the places where one should expect to be able to enjoy oneself without fear of violence, the zoo -- any zoo, anywhere -- has always been at the top of my list. That such a tragedy has happened at our National Zoo is so incredibly sad. Now what? Airport-like security at the zoo? What on earth were these young, gun-wielding thugs thinking??? Or do they think at all? Lori, saddened in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:01:27 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Jane Griffin Can anyone on this list give me some information on an artist named Jane Griffin? I think that is her name. I saw her while dozing late night tv. She was great. Plays piano. Sing some beautiful melancholy music. How many albums and what is best? Thanks, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:05:39 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #207 Yes, it is a small world. Go to the masters? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:48:49 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC In a message dated 4/25/00 10:14:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << Pat I think you mean "pimiento" sandwhiches which I was forced to eat as a child. YUCK!............. >> ok ok ok, so i was making a pentimento pun. could pentimento mean five pimento cheese sandwiches? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:49:18 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Marking content For those who are new to the list, please be careful to mark your posts NJC (No Joni Content) in the subject line if your email fits this category. Some of us would appreciate it. Cassy N.P. America - "America" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:04:16 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: On a Tribute, 10 Questions (...maybe there were more) From: "smarcaurele" Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:23:27 -0400 Sweet chords rose up in waxed New England halls In Manhattan Bearing resemblance only The artist's works truly a wheel in the middle of a wheel Understanding ...and they went every one straight forward whither they went they turned not when they went the wheels were lifted up over against them .....for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels the same wheels also turned not from them what is that proverb that you say? ....the days are prolonged and every vision fails? Prophets like foxes in the deserts Peace? there was no peace one built up a wall others shored it up with more rationalizations with walls and lies you have made sadness a great eagle which had divers colors took seeds and planted them in a fruitful field it grew, a spreading vine of low stature whose branches turned toward him there was another eagle and this vine did bend her roots toward him, shot forth her branches = toward him that it might bring forth branches and dear fruit shall it prosper spreading in a vine of low stature? mischief shall be upon mischief and rumour shall be upon rumour according to their way according to their way how long shall be the vision of the daily sacrifice? they sidebar in cyber chambers now still they don't mean a thing after all it wasn't so long ago when all could claim closer relation to Da Vinci my reclusive hermit nature makes more and more sense with every passing = year (oh...that interview with what's her face from NBC, and whose face that = had to take yet another shot ...oh them - does anyone ever remember = them?) I stopped listening So I don't know if anyone else dared say they can see and look what Columbine friend of mine wrought - will they ever get = "it"? Not so long as they move forward at one time, heads forward S. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:10:43 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Columbia House Sale on Joni! For anyone who is interested, Columbia house is having a sale on Joni CDs... www.columbiahouse.com Turbulent Indigo Ladies of the Canyon Hejira each of these CDs is currently 99 cents Other Joni CDs are also at reduced prices varying from $5.98 to $7.98 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:09:41 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: I Wish I Were In Love Again (NJC) Catherine writes: << You suckered me in, that's for sure! Maybe you can't skate, but you could probably direct someone else - is it possible to be a choreographer without knowing how to dance? >> As I privately replied to a few people, I never thought I was fooling anyone. After all who could possibly find the time (except Ashara) to be a figure skater AND keep up with the JMDL :~) I still do think "I wish I were in Love Again" would be great music for a figure skater. Actually medley of BSN songs would work fine. I do like one reply that I received suggesting Tanya Harding skate to "If I had a Hammer" LOL Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:31:09 EDT From: RSTM@aol.com Subject: Re: here in DC (NJC) Re the comments: Of all the places where one should expect to be able to enjoy oneself without fear of violence, the zoo -- any zoo, anywhere -- has always been at the top of my list. That such a tragedy has happened at our National Zoo is so incredibly sad. Now what? Airport-like security at the zoo? What on earth were these young, gun-wielding thugs thinking??? Or do they think at all? Kids are shooting and being shot and killed all over DC (and all over the country, for that matter) for what, the last 20+ years. It strikes me as a bit odd (naive? -- not meaning to insult) that one would think that there would be any "sanctuary" (white sanctuary?) where one would feels safe from gang violence. What is surprising is that this has not happened before. In addition to metal detectors, how about limiting manufacture/access to guns? Just a thought. ron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:33:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: toontown, krall, and giving up baby - --- Kate wrote: > > Catman: "She gave up her daughter for her art." > > I don't think this is true. Joni gave up her > daughter *for her > daughter.* It wasn't in order to make it easier for > her to pursue her > own interests; it was because she wanted her > daughter to have the secure > home that she didn't trust herself to provide. > Kate, you got that right - Joni gave up her daughter, not "for her art" but because she didn't have the financial means at the time to support her and felt she had no choice. Remember this was 30-some years ago, a time when single-parent-by-choice wasn't an option, and neither was abortion. I'm sure it was an extremely difficult decision but one that, at the time, was the right one. Joni later acknowledged that, if she had known at the time that within a year she would attain the success she did, she would have handled it differently. At the time, however, she was desperate. You play the hand you're dealt. C'est la vie. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:06:59 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC At 10:48 AM 4/25/00 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/25/00 10:14:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com >writes: (snip) >ok ok ok, so i was making a pentimento pun. could pentimento mean five >pimento cheese sandwiches? Arrange 5 mentos in a pentagram and invoke... - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:17:14 -0400 From: Lucy Ijams Subject: new member's thoughts Hi jmdl members, I just signed on a couple of days ago after devotedly poring over the jm.com site for a couple of days. I am so sorry I missed the TNT tribute. I tried to get someone to tape it, but he didn't have any tapes. I want to make a comment that may raise some hackles. I am a fan of the early years. After Hejira, I lost interest. I couldn't make the transition in my mind to Jonijazz. I have been pleased to discover her on the Herbie Hancock CD last year. And I listened to samples of BSN on the web and I have to say that I can't love Joni now the same way I once did (idolized is a better word for it.) It is because of what smoking cigarettes has done to her voice. I can't get past it. I think she has ruined her voice and it makes me sad. She really can't sing anymore, IMO. And that may be why it is not her time. I think there is a huge amount of denial around the effect of the addiction on her. What does np mean? Lucy (who used to resemble Joni in the old days!) and still sings her songs occasionally to herself or to a lover. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:23:47 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: new member's thoughts Lucy Ijams wrote: What does np mean? Now Playing Jerry np: Natalie Merchant - All I Want ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:36:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: new member's thoughts Good to see an "honest woman" -- literally -- join the list. You're not alone in your assesment of Joni's later vocal quality ... a great many yearn for the soaring soprano yodels of the 60s. I'll only speak for myself, to paraphrase a line in the song "I'm Past My Prime" from the Broadway musical Li'L Abner -- "What Joni's got left over is more than most folks starts out with!" For me her artistry transcends the quality of her voice ... before, during and after the affects of time and smoking. And I guess, that's why I'm here ... welcome to the Mad Tea Party! Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:46:56 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: here in DC (NJC) I for one find it surreal to see my own apartment building shown in CNN's coverage of a mass shooting. With all due respect, Ron, I think your comment below is a bit much...especially the "white sanctuary?" reference. Although the general vicinity of the zoo includes some ultra-pricey neighborhoods and those neighborhoods are predominately white, it also includes an assortment of rental apartment buildings (rent-controlled apartment buildings like mine, even) that don't much flirt with luxury and that house tenants of every possible stripe. I had used the word "sanctuary" in my first post about the zoo. As someone who has spent hour after hour there over the last 23 years, I've felt remarkably at home with nature and her creations at the zoo, and if that isn't part of what you would call a sanctuary, so be it. I *love* the zoo. It's where I go for exercise (wonderfully taxing walking trails) and centering and communing with nature. Over the years it has been a source of renewal for me, much as Joni's music has been. Of course one takes (took) the usual precautions one would take when out in public, but for the most part the zoo flourished as a calming and centering force even in the city. You'll not get arguments about gun ownership from me. At 12:31 PM 4/25/2000 EDT, RSTM@aol.com wrote: ><>Kids are shooting and being shot and killed all over DC (and all over the >country, for that matter) for what, the last 20+ years. It strikes me as a >bit odd (naive? -- not meaning to insult) that one would think that there >would be any "sanctuary" (white sanctuary?) where one would feels safe from >gang violence. What is surprising is that this has not happened before. In >addition to metal detectors, how about limiting manufacture/access to guns? > >Just a thought. > >ron > > Let all these dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kennelled in me. Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:48:47 EDT From: WrknPrgss@aol.com Subject: I need to go digest! I mean I need to go *on digest* instead of receiving individual emails. Thanks! Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:54:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: here in DC (NJC) Nothing to say about the dreadful shootings. Sorry to say it is so common now as to have lost it's impact. As regards zoos-I went to sevral zoos as a child and hated all of them-found them really upsetting. Visted one a few years ago-a safari park thinking it would be different. Well it was sort of doifferent but still found it upsetting. I guess I don't like zoos. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:56:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC Are you talking about those red and green and yellow peppers? they aren't chllies but big things. My mpther, being Spanish, called them pimentoes. I think they are also called Capsicums. When i first came to the UK I asked for Zucchini in a grocer. They didn't know what I meant. Here they are called Courgette. Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/25/00 10:14:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com > writes: > > << Pat I think you mean "pimiento" sandwhiches which I was forced to eat as a > child. YUCK!............. >> > > ok ok ok, so i was making a pentimento pun. could pentimento mean five > pimento cheese sandwiches? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:57:11 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC Are you talking about those red and green and yellow peppers? they aren't chllies but big things. My mpther, being Spanish, called them pimentoes. I think they are also called Capsicums. When i first came to the UK I asked for Zucchini in a grocer. They didn't know what I meant. Here they are called Courgette. By the way, do you get Swede over there? I love it. Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/25/00 10:14:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com > writes: > > << Pat I think you mean "pimiento" sandwhiches which I was forced to eat as a > child. YUCK!............. >> > > ok ok ok, so i was making a pentimento pun. could pentimento mean five > pimento cheese sandwiches? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:01:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: My Crude MS Comment On Joni's Voice If memory serves me correctly, Webster's definiton of patina said: something grown beautiful esp. with age. I've had BSN playing softly in our school office for a few weeks now and from my teacher's comments, I think I've done my little part to boost sales. For me, if anything, the aged voice has so much character and expression. Took me a day or so to listen to BSN without welling up. When her voice is gone I'll pay to hear her bath water gurgle down the drain. I feel better now. Medric __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:06:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: new member's thoughts Personally, I prefer her recent voice-in fact her voice from HOSL onwards. I also like the firs album's voice. The albums in between I do enjoy but have to say the high pitch grates after a while. But then I have never been into high voices. I like deep rich voices as in Carly(who hasn't lost anything. In fact sounds now like she did at the beginning and the beginning voice was waaaay beyond her years if you get what i mean. My personal favourites are NRH and TI for voice. I think her voice is not so hot on TTT or on BSN. welcome to the list, lucy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:14:42 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Julia (was toontown....) NJC In a message dated 4/25/00 1:57:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << Are you talking about those red and green and yellow peppers? >> you know i don't know if they are peppers or not, but i guess they sure could be. i see them in the store in little round jars and they are in some kind of olive oil or something. i think they are also the same things stuffed in olives. making me want a martini now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:32:20 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: pre-concert gathering, 5/22 (njc) I suggest Judy's Chelsea, 169 8th Avenue, between 18th and 19th Streets. I'll be playing piano from 6 to 10, the food's really good and, while it is a 15-minute walk to the Garden, the place is clean and attractive. This is definitely not true of the Blarney Stone. I went there on April whatever, before the Tribute, hoping to see some JMDL people and that place was disgusting. Judy's Chelsea has no TV sets blaring; the sound system can play Joni CDs that evening. Ashara, Kenny, Patrick and Emily have all been there and they may have comments. Anyway, I'll buy everybody's first drink. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:51:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: a joni dream (NJC)(NJC) > I go to bed and my Joni dreams are usually of her at > my mothers Tupperware > parties, and she's having a good time. Dave c > The last Joni dream I had centered around my annual family reunion in Natchez Miss. Stanton Hall, an Antebellum Mansion in town, had been converted into a recording studio. In Studio A was Stevie Nicks, working on her next solo album -- and down the hall in Studio C were Joni and Larry ... who asked me to sit in on keyboards on one track. I'm okay with the food -- but no more listening to AT&T's "Stormy Weather" as a lullaby! ;-) Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:59:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Elian Hyperbole (cynical NJC) Okay, before we get started -- this post is a SATIRE born of some pretty overblown statements in the press, which my wife and I were discussing: What's far worse than the actual handling of this whole situation is the media hyperbole. I truly can't believe that I've repeatedly heard: "This is the darkest moment in American history ..." Oh really? Let's see, among candidates for Top 10 Darkest Moments In American History -- with Elian in the #1 spot, of course: The Civil War -- A definite second place. The Great Depression -- A distant third. The Kennedy Assassination -- Fourth place, definitely. The Vietnam War -- shouldn't even be on this list ... Kent State -- what the hell happened there, again? The King Assassination -- really stretching compared to what just happened in Miami, don't you think? Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor -- okay, we'll give this Fifth Place. Jesse Ventura Elected Governor of Minnesota -- Sixth Place Suicides at Jonestown Guyana -- doesn't count if it happened in some foreign county. The Bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City - -- we'll flip it in Seventh Place. Watergate -- enough already! Put 'er in Eighth Place and let's move on. Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima/Nagasaki -- can't be a darkest moment when the US wins, okay? The Senate UnAmerican Activities Commission Hearings - -- some might scream a little, but we'll go Ninth Place. The Trail of Tears Forced March -- because something had to be in Tenth Place. Makes you wonder ... Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:14:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Elian Hyperbole (cynical NJC) <> Hey Don, you forgot to put "Dancing Clown" in there somewhere...;~D Bob np: Cassandra, "Tupelo Honey" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:38:13 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Elian Hyperbole (cynical NJC) hey, yeah, what about when they changed to "New Coke"? people were scrambling all over and killing each other to get the last of the original... it was chaos. a truly dark moment... alison e. - ---------- >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com >To: dgrowe227@yahoo.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Elian Hyperbole (cynical NJC) >Date: Tue, Apr 25, 2000, 2:14 PM > ><whole situation is the media hyperbole. I truly can't >believe that I've repeatedly heard: > >"This is the darkest moment in American history ...">> > >Hey Don, you forgot to put "Dancing Clown" in there somewhere...;~D > >Bob > >np: Cassandra, "Tupelo Honey" > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:43:51 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: >Anyway, I'll buy everybody's first drink. >DAVID LAHM nuff said, david. just kidding. So far, Tanya, Sherelle, Rose and Paul have expressed interest in the pre-nyc show gathering. this place sounds as good as any other, plus we will get to hear Mr. Lahm perform! Sounds great to me. I don't think a 15 minute walk to the garden is a problem...probably be good for sobering up and buying some tissues on the way. anyone else who wants to join us is welcome! i think the earlier the better, as some time to chat would be nice. alison e. >I suggest Judy's Chelsea, 169 8th Avenue, between 18th and 19th Streets. I'll >be playing piano from 6 to 10, the food's really good and, while it is a >15-minute walk to the Garden, the place is clean and attractive. This is >definitely not true of the Blarney Stone. I went there on April whatever, >before the Tribute, hoping to see some JMDL people and that place was >disgusting. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:12:21 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Elian: my last related post [very NJC-long] Maybe its because I have two little boys and I live with them and experience the things they say and their hope, fears, and dreams. Maybe its because I am well read and know history and have studied media and politics. I dont know. I do know that to me , considering all the "protests" and demonstrations that I have seen my generation take part in over the years I have a difficult time believeing that this has actually happened or been allowed to happen. I apologize in advance if any of this stuff ticks anyone off but what is happening to this child is so clear from these articles and how consistent they are with the known facts (such as statements from the Cuban embassy and the arrival of the Cuban Pshychiatrists) in this case and it has saddened me greatly. I will be posting no more on this subject but will answer private emails as I have been doing. Below are two excerpts from todays major newspapers. I am posting these because others have felt free to post political items and so I am as well. But also because those who are on this list frequently espouse what can only be termed "values". Some chide others for not holding certain views or values and some are considered "unenlightened" if they dare to hold others. I dare say No one on the entire list would defend or admit that they would approve of detention and indoctrinization on a systematic level of children. Not "relative" indoctrination but REAL indoctrinization. In fact many child custody cases are decided every day, some involving other countries, but regardless of who the childen may end up with it is hard to imagine a decision that would bypass BOTH parents and hand the child over to a remorseless system intent on real and professional and systematic mind control. The key points that have been made by our government in this case refer to Fathers rights and or how the boy must be returned to his father. Fine and I would agree. But what if the boy is not being returned to his father. Then what. I believe the answer is here what is really happening. Can anything be done. No. With this post I will go back to my regular programming commenting on music and Joni related matters. I will also say a few prayers for this child who has become a pawn in the power politics of the administration. Forgive me if I have offended anyone. From Robert Novaks column in the Chicago Sun Times. This is the background of the dawn raid in Miami. Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the case last Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments. The extraordinary opinion by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals not only enjoined Reno from removing the boy from the United States until the hearing, but turned down her plea to hand Elian over immediately to his father. However, the court did not prohibit such action, and Reno peremptorily broke off negotiations with the Miami family and sent in paramilitary agents. Had she not, there is little question that Elian on May 8 would have professed his desire to stay in Florida--a legitimate aspiration for a 6-year-old, says the 11th Circuit. Thus, considering the Clinton administration's overriding desire for better relations with Castro, it was necessary to seize the boy. The optimum time was the Saturday of Holy Week, when members of Congress are scattered to the winds. It probably will not require an expert Communist brainwasher to turn around a child's preference, but Castro has revealed his intentions. Cuban officials, telling the Associated Press that Elian has been "psychologically abused," [ie. exposed to American culture] declared that "psychologists would help him recover" once he is in Cuba. The original visa application for Juan Miguel listed six psychiatrists and psychologists to come here. Any number of practitioners can be slipped into the country without fanfare--and presumably beyond locked gates at Andrews or Wye. In any event, the Castro regime has announced they will be assigned to his retinue in Havana. The mere mention of "Cuban psychiatry," in the scandalous Soviet image, is chilling. When the World Psychiatric Association in 1983 condemned the Soviet Union for using psychiatry to punish dissidents, Cuba joined the Soviets in leaving the organization in protest. The Cubans never returned (though the Russians did) and they still follow the old Kremlin model. An affidavit filed in the current federal court case by Marta Molina, a Cuban psychologist, said Elian upon his return "immediately will be taken into seclusion to re-indoctrinate him in the ways of the Communist ideology." Based on her treatment of Cuban children, Molina predicted "the indoctrination and silencing of his thoughts and memories of the United States will lead to depression and psychological confusion." ______________________________________________________________________ Thomas Sowell Elian's future -- and ours http://www.jewishworldreview.com -- AFTER THE SEIZURE of Elian Gonzalez by heavily armed marshals in the early hours of the morning, the spin from the Clinton administration -- echoed by CNN and CBS -- was that Elian was now reunited with his father. But, even before this raid was launched, the Cuban government itself revealed that Elian is destined to go to a special place being prepared for him in Havana -- not in Cardenas, where his father lives. There will of course be photo ops of father and son together and such other staged events as the Castro regime may find politically useful but, in the end, Elian will be sequestered in his own little re-education camp in Havana. There, with a dozen of his classmates and such other personnel as are necessary for this operation, he will undergo reorientation toward the views that the Communist government wants him to express. None of this is new. The Soviets did it more than half a century ago. The Chinese Communists called it "brainwashing." But Eric Hoffer said it better when he called it "soul raping." Why the classmates? Anyone familiar with the process of brainwashing knows that confronting the targeted individual in the presence of people he knows is part of that process. If we want to talk sense, rather than repeat political spin, then we are talking about Elian Gonzalez being returned to Castro, not to his father. The Cuban representative in the United States openly referred to little Elian as the "property" of the state. Nor is this a new position for Communist governments. But none are so blind as those who will not see -- or hear. And too many Americans, especially in the media, fall into that category. The story of the special center being prepared for Elian in Havana was carried in the N.Y. Times -- back on page 17, under a bland headline about Elian's classmates awaiting his return. The other great piece of political spin out of the Clinton administration is that Attorney General Janet Reno "had no choice" but to send in marshals, in order to uphold "the rule of law." Like so many things that are said inside the Beltway, this was the direct opposite of the truth. The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals last week set forth the other choice -- a hearing on an application for asylum on behalf of Elian Gonzalez by his uncle in Miami. That may well be what set off this pre-dawn seizure of the little boy, precisely to prevent that choice from being exercised. The political stakes are just too high, for both the Clinton administration and the Castro regime, to take a chance on Elian Gonzalez being given asylum in the United States. What this little boy could have said freely in an American court of law was likely to be radically different from what he will be saying now that he is, for all practical purposes, in the custody of Cuban officials in the United States -- much less what he will say after he is "re-educated" in Havana. As for the father's desire to be re-united with his son, he could have come here months ago for that purpose. Havana is closer to Miami than Washington is to Philadelphia. When Juan Gonzalez learned that his son had been rescued from the sea and was in a Miami hospital, he could have been in Miami inside of an hour. No one has yet faced up to the question asked by Dominican nun Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, whose home has served as a neutral meeting place for those involved in this controversy: "What, if not fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute trip to reclaim his son?" This has never been about re-uniting father and son. From day one, the over-riding consideration has been political damage control by preventing any revelations or defections that could set back the years-long efforts of the left to get full diplomatic relations established with the Castro regime in Cuba. Janet Reno made her move when the Circuit Court of Appeals ruling made that political disaster a very real prospect. [my note] The bottom line is will Elian be returned to the custody of his father in his fathers home or will he go to this government reindoctrination facility. The validity of everyones or anyones position in this matter will be decided by which place the child actually goes. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #214 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?