From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #213 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 25 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 213 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC Elian [catman ] Re: Joni and onlies ["Kakki" ] Re: tnt tape [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: fantastic! [Susan McNamara ] Re: Big Yellow Taxi CD [JP ] TNT Tribute [Emily Kirk Gray ] joni video collections ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Cassette Recording of TNT Tribute to Joni- FREE- ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama] TNT Tribute CD [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: NJC: Christine Lavin ["Alison Einerson" ] Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts [Steve Dulson ] Elian Photo ["Kate Bennnett" ] Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" ] different perspective on Elian (NJC) [Anne Sandstrom ] JF2KNO Recordings (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] here in DC (NJC) [Janet Hess ] RE: Elian Photo NJC ["Kate Bennnett" ] Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby ["Mark or Travis" ] This will ruin your day, plus new ideas NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Joni Mitchell 2000 U.S. tour - a request [Les Irvin ] Joni's writers block [Bounced Message ] The Joni Tribute [Bounced Message ] feed back and thanks from Kurt [Bounced Message ] Re: NJC Elian [Bounced Message ] Re: The Joni Tribute [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni Mitchell 2000 U.S. tour - a request [CaTGirl627@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:52:37 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Elian The artical was interesting. It would have been so much better had it not contained this : Sure, it was a traumatic few minutes for the kid. But a little boy who has seen his mother drown in a frantic effort to escape her homeland with her new boyfriend is already no stranger to trauma. The words of a fool, really, and it would seem, of someone who thinks the result justifies the means. I don't feel this article was written by someone who cares about the child. Mark or Travis wrote: > > Here's an interesting take on this whole controversy: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/398478.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:48:04 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and onlies Mark in the Seattle area wrote: >I agree that to say all of Joni's relationship difficulties stem >from her being an only child is simplistic. And I also realize >that not every one who is an only child grows up to be a >certain way. I certainly never meant to imply that. I hope >you know, Kakki, that I hold you in very high regard and >that I never intended to say that you or anyone else who >grew up without syblings is self-centered. Well, thank you Mark. I just got a little worried with people maybe thinking Joni "really don't know love at all" based on her comments about the new album. And I started feeing like the only-children defense league ;-) The study of personality in connection birth order or status *is* fascinating and much of what has been determined generally rings pretty true. I think onlies can be self-centered, but so can the "babies" of the family or the only son or only daughter, etc. I think the ultimate question is whether the parents spoiled and/or overprotected the children. I grew up with two close only children friends. One turned out to be the most well-adjusted and other-centered people I've ever met and has always had a ton of good long-term and loyal friends and boyfriends. The other has seemed to struggle all her life with friendships and love relationships. Guess which one was spoiled and extremely overprotected? From what we know of Joni she was very outgoing - the "good-time Charlie" who always liked to be in the thick of the action. She was always off on a new adventure starting in early childhood and seemed to have a wide variety of friends. It seems like her parents did not overprotect her or isolate her too much in that regard. She also worked as a teenager and seemed to have to earn her own money in high school and art school, so she wasn't handed everything she wanted and had to learn to negotiate her own way in the world at a fairly young age. She seemed to be as well-adjusted as one could hope given the fact that she did not have the experience of siblings. "Wrestling with my ego" could also be just as much attributed to the artistic temperment factor. I think the fact that she has the self-awareness to know and write about her weak spots is a healthy sign, too. ;-) > As far as Joni's concerned, I know there are people on the >list that don't like any kind of prying or speculation about her >personal life. It makes me uncomfortable at times myself. I >did have a bit of a moral debate with myself before I sent my >post. But Joni & her music are so fascinating to me that I >can't help speculating about what makes her tick. And I >wanted to find out what other list members thought. This is >a discussion list, after all! I agree with you completely. I think of all the English literature classes I took all through school and discussing and analyzing what informed a writer or made them tick was a standard part of the curriculum. Same with any class in the arts. Joni herself is often an open book and puts it all out there for discussion in many ways. As for wondering who she wrote a song about, I find nothing wrong at all with that. I hear a gorgeous song and I can't help but wonder who the special person is to have inspired it, that's all. When I wrote songs, they were always about or inspired by someone I knew - I could never make up a fictional love song - just wouldn't work for me. > If Bill isn't going to do it, poor Myrtle has to play the bad > guy. I think that may been the case, also. Myrtle probably did take on the "grounding" role and although Joni may wince at it sometimes, I'm sure she has come to be grateful for it and respects her very much. Daughter-mother relationships can be inherently challenging and sometimes the two are so close that the fur is going to fly. And when that happens, the dear old dad usually wants to beat a hasty retreat ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:02:15 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: tnt tape In a message dated 4/23/2000 9:22:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, alarson@isunet.net writes: << still not sure what to think about the new circle game >> I do...lets hear it for diversity. ill give the shows producers a B for including this daring rendition BUT I would have rather heard Paul Simon take a shot. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:17:04 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: fantastic! thanks, clark for the kind kudos. the site wouldn't be what it is today without the help of a lot of amazing people including Les, Jim Leahy, Marian, Howard and Mark. It's a dream come true! >Just wanted to say congratulations and express my deepest thanks to Sue, >Howard, Marian and Mark again for their amazing, painstaking efforts on the >guitar site. ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:04:02 +0300 From: JP Subject: Re: Big Yellow Taxi CD > My wonderful (and very new, only two weeks married) husband has been hunting > for things for me on Ebay. He bought something and told me it was a > surprise. Yesterday the item came and as I was opening it he said he hoped > I didn't already have it! > > I pulled a CD out of the envelope and was a little disappointed as it was > indeed a disc I already had, Big Yellow Taxi Dance remixes. As I looked > closer, I realized that it looked a little different than the copy I had > already, it was not in a jewel case, it had a cardboard cover with a plastic > flip-tab closing; so I got out the one I had and compared them. Indeed > there are two different versions of this disc, the cardboard case disc has > the black and white checkers and taxi-yellow on it... the jewel-case disc is > a pale green color, the sequence of the pieces is different and the > cardboard sleeved disc has an extra cut with the original A Cappella/guitar > version on it . > > My husband was bummed out that he bought me something I already had but I > told him it was great because now I have them both! > > has anyone else seen both versions? > > Cassy the newlywed The one with the cardboard cover is the U.S. release and the one in the slim jewel case is from Europe. I was lucky enough to discover the U.S. one in an import shop (here in Europe) before the regular one. I think the acapella version is the original single version and a bit different from the version on the Ladies album. - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:12:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: TNT Tribute hi everyone! i've been quiet on the list recently; i'm going through life upheavals (of the good kind; big major crazy love stuff) but upheavals nonetheless. still, i so enjoy reading your all's prickly and passionate words -- keep 'em coming. as a writing teacher, i'm always pleased and gratified to find real and true and GOOD writing from a "real world" source like this discussion list. you all are very important to me and i'm glad to be a part of this community. OK -- so i just watched the tribute show this week (a friend taped it for me). overall, i did not find the music as challenging or as on-the-edge as the joni's jazz show last summer. then, i felt the artists making a real effort to interpret the songs; here i could sense more of the "tribute" feel -- kind of "hollywood" at times. whereas last summer seemed to be more about musicianship. that's not to bag on the show -- any public recognition joni gets is a good thing in my book. and i loved watching her watch them. i was unimpressed by shawn colvin and m. chapin carpenter -- SC's voice enchants me but their versions seemed so bland; so sing-along. also cassandra wilson was game but not up to "dry cleaner." but those were my only down moments; although i didn't love JT's version, the emotional aspect of him singing that song back to JM was overwhelming and touching. and diana krall had me enthralled -- didn't mind elton on "free man" -- loved cyndi's "carey" -- loved sweet honey but WISHED dearly for toshi reagon to tear up "black crow" as she did in central park. richard thompson was OK; better on guitar than vocals, as others have noted. but when JM came on for "both sides now" i forgot all about the other performers and just lost it; cried right through her whole song. there is something about hearing her new take on the words "and still sometimes" -- especially in the context of this retrospective of her work... actually, in my ideal world i'd be the writer and producer of the real retrospective of JM's work (with a little help from my JMDL friends, natch!) and show the public a much more in-depth tour of her musical genius...i.e. MUCH more about her jazz period -- much more weight given to the second half of her career -- etc. etc. OK, i'll stop rambling. i'm so looking forward to May 22! new yorkers, do we have any kind of pre- or post- plan yet? please fill me in if so. also: go knicks! what a squeaker yesterday. - -- emily NP: "both sides now" from clouds ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:21:44 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: joni video collections hey folks, could you please tell me more about joni videos collections available? i have the "night ride home" video collection - but i'm sure there are more. yours, me. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:46:16 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" Subject: Cassette Recording of TNT Tribute to Joni- FREE- I am making cassette copies of a audience recording made at the TNT Tribute to Joni Mitchell. Some intrepid taper has presented our little community with this gift which shows, in audiophile-grade stereo, why Joni called it a surrealistic event. It was. On this tape you'll learn that during commercials, the audience sat in silence. The band didn't play. There were no Joni tapes going. Just an audience brimming with enthusiasm and..... paradoxically, silence. I never knew TV was made like this. It's weird. Anyway, all of the music is there without the compression that the TV folks add when squeezing it through the proverbial pipe. I love it and think that all audiophiles should at least hear it. If you agree, email me privately and I'll send details. It fits on a single 120 minute tape. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:38:51 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: TNT Tribute CD A very BIG THANKS goes out to JMDLer Steve Polifka! He managed to edit the TNT Tribute and convert it to a CD which turned out fantastic. I got my copy this morning and it's WONDERFUL! He put his degree in commercial arts to good use in creating the cover, inserts, and CD label. You would swear this was a CD commercially produced by Reprise (but it doesn't skip :~) . This is a must for *all* Joni fans, and hopefully it will be on the CD tree soon so everyone can enjoy! Thanks again Steve for all your hard work! Jimmy np - Cyndi Lauper "Carey" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:52:03 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: NJC: Christine Lavin Tanya, Chili, et al... Chili is right on the mark, as Christine Lavin has an amazing skill for emotive, touching and personal songs. For anyone wanting to sample her stuff, I would recommend "Future Fossils" or "Attainable Love", or if you can find it, "Beau Woes". SHe really is brilliant, I think it takes a special kind of skill to be so funny and be able to write such incredible love songs. She has a lot in common with Patty Larkin, and they used to play live (Bitchin Babes, On a Winters Night) together alot. Larkins humor comes out much more in a live setting, where Lavin's always comes through on her recordings as well. They are both incredible artists. I would venture to say that Patty Larkin is one of the best female guitar players alive today. alison e. in slc. - ---------- >From: Chilihead2@aol.com >To: Joni@smoe.org >Subject: NJC: Christine Lavin >Date: Sat, Apr 22, 2000, 6:30 AM > >Hi, > >Saw the thread beginning about Christine Lavin. Yes, Mrs. Chili and I are >both fans of Christine. She is funny! A cross between Joni and Bette Midler. > >We caught a show of hers and also met her at the Towne Crier in Pawling , NY >(where our own JMDL Tom Ross sometimes plays). She was very good. Still while >I like her funny songs, she can write some very good serious songs e.g. >"Realities". > >-Chili >NP-"The Mood that passes through you"from the movie "The Piano"- Mrs Chili on >acoustic piano > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:04:22 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts Penny said << BTW, do other's think Joni has aged 10 years in the last two? >> And Bob said: >While she looked a lot older on the Tribute show, I thought she looked much >younger on Rosie, and even Rosie commented how good she looked. I imagine >it's the different lighting and makeup. Joni looks great, but I also was struck by the difference in her appearance recently, and the way she looked close up post-PWWAM. I guess we all fall victim to time and other thieves.... ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:00:41 -0700 From: "Kate Bennnett" Subject: John Gorka John Gorka Rules !!! Kate Bennett Singer Songwriter kate@katebennett.com www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:00:42 -0700 From: "Kate Bennnett" Subject: Elian Photo I just was told that photo of Elian & the gun was actually altered to make it appear as if the gun was pointing at the child when it really wasn't. Kate Bennett Singer Songwriter kate@katebennett.com www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:20:02 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" Subject: Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby Penny! Hey! You're ON to something here! I like psychology so I'll run with it till Dr. Zigmongogreeeeeen can get a hold of it. You mean like she thought she was a bad person so she had a half commitment. The work was daring, bold, creative, brilliant, but no commitment to what the record company said was necessary for "success"- t o u r i n g. So she had the satisfaction of being underrated. Vastly, hugely, underrated. Then when she could pentimento over her Kelly mistake, she found that, hey, maybe this t o u r i n g thing deserves a second look too. Unfortunately, now she's disillusioned. So even though she had a tribute concert on television (Joni!) she feels "it's not my time". Sad. For a minute. For this instant. But she'll be off the starting blocks again any second. She's never down for long, is she? After word: (I'm trying to use the word at the beginning of the film "Julia" when Jane Fonda's narration is explaining a painter 'repenting', changing what is on the canvas, altering what had gone before. I think she called it "pentimento". Are there any painters in the house to back me up?) Penny speculated: "... after all the issues of her lost child were willing to be confronted, maybe it was also OK in Joni's eyes to become the huge and widely known success she really is?" All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:45:52 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Fundraising for JMDL amd JMCom As most of you know, Ashara, along with several other listmembers has done much to raise money in support of the Joni Mitchell web site. Michael Paz will also coordinating a contribution to both the JM.com and the JMDL.com web sites at the Joni Tribute Fest in New Orleans. In that spirit and with Ashara's and Michael's blessings, I am offering for sale one of the full-sized "Yellow Roses" lithographs from the BSN album to listmembers only. 50% of the proceeds I receive will go to Les for JMDL and 50% will go to Jim for JM.com. I will pay for the shipping costs. In full disclosure, I have heard that lithos will be available for sale at the upcoming shows, so some of you may want to wait until then. But if you'd like to support the Joni web sites and get a beautiful litho in return, here is your chance. Here's how it will work - anyone wanting to make an offer can send me your bid by email. The highest bid donation received by the end of this week (midnight, Saturday, April 29, 2000) will win the litho. The minimum bid is $25.00. As a consolation prize, the four highest runner-up bidders will receive a free TNT Tribute Show postcard. For more details and any questions, please email me privately. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:06:09 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: different perspective on Elian (NJC) I am SO tired of this story. But I did find it incredibly poignant that after going on and on about this one child, the next story was about the millions (did they really say millions?) dying in Ethiopia because of the continuing famine. There were nameless skeletons of children dying in the famished arms of relatives. Now, THAT's heartrending. Just think of how much food the money spent on the Elian case could buy... how many children could be helped or saved... lots of love Anne NPIMH: Joni's Ethiopia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:12:22 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Elian Photo In a message dated 4/24/00 3:35:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: << I just was told that photo of Elian & the gun was actually altered to make it appear as if the gun was pointing at the child when it really wasn't. >> Well, it depends on where it was published, I suppose, but I still doubt that's true among any reputable media. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:16:49 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: My Joni Mitchell Site Hello Ken The screensaver is amazing! I love those paintings. Some I have never seen before. Great job. I particularly like the line painting of the one that looks like it's a fat black woman, so simple and yet so evocative. Miles Davis' is a great portrait. I wonder if it is taken from a sitting or a photo... The more rare line drawings are cool too - Nash (I think) playing piano with his knees out, the woman with the child in the womb (hmmm... what is *that one* trying to say, Little Green?) Much Joni Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:11:59 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: JF2KNO Recordings (NJC) Julian wrote: "4) How is it going with the possible recording of the JoniFest in Naw'lins? " Hi Julian- Welcome back!! JF2KNO will be recorded on multitrack for release later in the summer. It will also be documented on video and camera (Thanks Jim!). Hope you can be here! Michael NP-The Same Situation (from one of my best of cdr collections) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:49:59 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: here in DC (NJC) I'm still reeling. I was out in the kitchen, looked out the window of my apartment, noticed police cars all over, and saw that Connecticut Avenue in front of my building was blocked. People seemed to be looking about terribly nervously, and an ambulance sped past...and then I heard the bulletin on my NPR station that there has shooting at the zoo, with perhaps as many as seven people shot. One victim, a child, is said to be in grave condition. Today has been African American Family Day at the zoo, and I've watched delighted as scores of folks passed under my windows bearing balloons and smiles. So suddenly all is changed. For years I've gone to the zoo as a magical sanctuary...it's not even two blocks away, and it's possible to forget that one is in a city there. How sad, how impossibly sad. - ----------------- So when you see a man who's broken / Pick him up and carry him. And when you see a woman who's broken / Put her all into your arms 'Cause we don't know where we come from / We don't know what we are. Laurie Anderson, "Ramon" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:06:00 -0700 From: "Kate Bennnett" Subject: RE: Elian Photo NJC Apparently it was CNN and they got in hot water for altering the photo. Kate Bennett Singer Songwriter kate@katebennett.com www.katebennett.com - -----Original Message----- From: IVPAUL42@aol.com [mailto:IVPAUL42@aol.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:12 PM To: kate@katebennett.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Elian Photo In a message dated 4/24/00 3:35:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: << I just was told that photo of Elian & the gun was actually altered to make it appear as if the gun was pointing at the child when it really wasn't. >> Well, it depends on where it was published, I suppose, but I still doubt that's true among any reputable media. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:56:35 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby > After word: > (I'm trying to use the word at the beginning of the film "Julia" when Jane > Fonda's narration is explaining a painter 'repenting', changing what is on > the canvas, altering what had gone before. I think she called it > "pentimento". Are there any painters in the house to back me up?) > I'm not a painter but that is the word used in 'Julia'. It was also the name of the Lillian Hellman memoir that 'Julia' comes from. Ask Mary McCarthy if it's true or not!;-) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:53:12 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: here in DC (NJC) I heard this news tonight, still breaking news. You and all involved are in my thoughts and prayers. (the Rev) Vince Janet Hess wrote: > I'm still reeling. I was out in the kitchen, looked out the window of my > apartment, noticed police cars all over, and saw that Connecticut Avenue in > front of my building was blocked. People seemed to be looking about > terribly nervously, and an ambulance sped past...and then I heard the > bulletin on my NPR station that there has shooting at the zoo, with perhaps > as many as seven people shot. One victim, a child, is said to be in grave > condition. > > Today has been African American Family Day at the zoo, and I've watched > delighted as scores of folks passed under my windows bearing balloons and > smiles. So suddenly all is changed. > > For years I've gone to the zoo as a magical sanctuary...it's not even two > blocks away, and it's possible to forget that one is in a city there. > > How sad, how impossibly sad. > > ----------------- > So when you see a man who's broken / Pick him up and carry him. > And when you see a woman who's broken / Put her all into your arms > 'Cause we don't know where we come from / We don't know what we are. > Laurie Anderson, "Ramon" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:16:47 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: This will ruin your day, plus new ideas NJC Word for word from the 19 April 2000 Chicago Tribune (which just came today in the mail): The INC. Column "We Can't Wait We hear Lionel Ritchie has enlisted the Backstreet Boys for one of the singles on his upcoming album. Sorry to ruin your day." This made me think, maybe we have been too limited, by the way, in who should do the next tribute show: imagine: the Backstreet Boys doing "Dancin Clown." Lionel Ritchie doing "The Wolf that Lives in Lindsey." Bobbie Sherman doing "The Jungle Line" N'SYNC doing "Sex Kills" Mormon Tabernancle Choir doing "Magdalene Laundries." Pearl Jam doing "Last Kiss." Oh wait, that's not a Joni song and they'd never do it anyway... Snoop Doggie Dog doing "Taming the Tiger" RuPaul doing "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:06:36 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Screensaver!!!! In a message dated 4/24/00 3:03:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ken writes: << << http://millennium.fortunecity.com/sherwood/452/ >> >> This is a truly wonderful screensaver. All hail Ken!!! Thanks so much. Take care, Julian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:22:7 +1000 From: john low Subject: RE: Joni & Folk Song Debra Shea writes: “… I don’t think that ‘reusing’ music without attribution is limited to the folk tradition.” This is quite true and, of course, it is not even limited to music. I’m sure there are numerous examples of writers and artists doing the same thing and I’m reminded of the commonly held view that there are indeed no new ideas, only old ones re-visited. Debra also says: “But someone known as a songwriter/composer may not want to call attention to their reusing an earlier tune…” Actually, I have no problem with Joni, the Dead, or anyone else for that matter, be it Bach, Dvorak or Copland, ‘borrowing’ from our folk inheritance and I am prepared to accept the decision they make about signing their name to the resulting composition. The point is, I think, that the borrowing in such cases is from material in the public domain that is known to both artist and audience. There is no attempt to hide or disguise the source. Both Hunter and Garcia have always acknowledged their use of “The Lady of Carlisle” as a source for “Lady With a Fan” and I guess Joni has in regard to her song too, though I can’t recall an occasion when she has actually spoken about “The Silky Veils of Ardour” (anyone know of one?). John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:48:15 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Joni Mitchell 2000 U.S. tour - a request Forwarded to the list by request: From: "Mauro Regis" Subject: R: Joni Mitchell 2000 U.S. tour - a requests Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:07:03 +0200 Joni Mitchell won't be touring Europe and I haven't got a chance to ride across the ocean and reach your homeland. So I'm turning on to the JMDLers. In 1988 I took some great photos in San Remo when Joni performed half an hour of great music for the Premio Tenco 1988. It would be wonderful if Joni could have the best of them, and it would be wonderful too if I could have a couple of them back signed by Joni. I'm asking if anybody that will meet Joni during the tour may receive the photos, give them to Joni and send a couple of them signed for me. Of course, I will charge mailing paying, and send some of the photos for hte kind persons who may help me. Thanks again. Mauro Regis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:59:55 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni's writers block Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:27:47 -0700 From: Sue Glumac >Spyder8@webtv.net wrote: >After reading the transcript of The Today show interview (which I >unfortunately missed) some of Joni's comments disturbed me: > In her own words JM says, >" This is not a time for me you know, Its the shallowest, most >unromantic time. It's not my time..." >Katie comments, 'While Joni Mitchell does continue, her voice has >changed, and she says she's blocked an cannot write songs now...she does >not feel needed.." I was also surprised and disturbed by that comment. I've heard her talk about how she has rich people problems and noone wants to hear about them, but I've never heard her talk about being blocked. In fact, I appreciate the social commentary in her later albums (Ethiopia, Justice, Sex Kills, Borderline) as much as her more personal/confessional writing. But I also wanted to put her comments in perspective. I was fortunate to see a one man play last weekend based on the writings and thinking of Buckminster Fuller -(remember him?) At one point in the dialogue the actor stands in the middle of the stage and asks the audience to name who has the most difficult task in life. The answer..... a poet. The reason.....because they must express the truth as they feel it, not as they think it or have been taught to think it. He claims that if you can express just one original feeling, you've accomplished much more than the majority of humanity. When I think of the number of simple truths that she has articulated for the rest of us.......I'm speechless! Think about her comments at the end of the tribute show where she said it was going to take days to put her feelings into words. She even asked Susan Sarandon to express her feelings for her. I can only imagine the forces and emotions that must be at work in her. On the one hand: the accolades, tribute show (and album), art shows, the daughter, the grandkids.......All this for someone who seems very much the "lonely painter who lives in her box of paints" and who is able to see that we are living in a very shallow and unromantic time. A far cry from the hopes and dreams of Woodstock. BTW - I agree, Cyndi Lauper was DEFINITELY the highlight of the show for me. In fact, I can't get the song out of my head. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:59:08 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: The Joni Tribute From: Jw1327@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:16:37 EDT Hello all, once again. It's time for my bi-annual contribution to this ongoing Joni discussion, this time the topic being the recent TNT tribute show. Some random thoughts: 1. When Joni chooses to cover a song written by someone else (a rere event in and of itself!) she always makes the song her own- and we Joni fans seem to eat it up. Yet when someone covers a Joni song (eg: JAMES TAYLOR!, Cyndi Lauper, Cassandra Wilson, RICHARD THOMPSON!, etc) people tear them apart, unless ov course they are slavish re-creations of the original Joni versions. Come on, guys! The lady is all about CHANGE! Moving forward! Experimentation! Etc! Let's listen with NEW ears, ok???!!! 1a. The interaction between Joni and James literally brought tears to my eyes! (literally!) So much history! Such a strong and sweet and enduring friendship! I hope I am fortunate enough in MY life to have such a long standing and loyal friend as that (I think I do, thank God!)- and yea, James' version had a lot to do with his own song "Like Everyone She Knows," but so what? It was a beautiful and heartfelt rendition! I loved it! 2. RICHARD THOMPSON!!!! Eric Clapton isn't God, Richard Thompson is! He tore the place up! I thought his rendition of WOODSTOCK was magnificent- raw, poignant, and sung by a man who knows! BLACK CROW brought goose bumps- it was phenominal- And I couldn't disagree more- Although I wasn;'t there and I don;t presume to know what goes through Joni's head, I can't help but think that she too was appreciative of Thompson's power. Two penultimate musicians. Magnificent! 3. The Shawn Colvin/Mary Chapin Carpenter "Amelia" likewise moved me to tears. Enough said. They were great throughout. 4. Diana Krall! Diana Krall! Diana Krall! Yea! That song was sung as "...ig it were written in her own blood"- wonder where I got that? 5. Now I've never liked Cyndi Lauper- until her version of "Carey"- the girl was great! Too bad she's not on the tribute album (or is she?) 6. Biggest diasppointment: k.d. lang- Breathy, often off-key (astounding for the pitch-perfect k.d.)- listless. I hoped for more. And I love k.d.lang. She turned that song into a sort of lounge act thing. Ouch... 7. Didn't care for Sweet Honey in the Rock one whit- sorry- there it is. 8. Cassandra Wilson can do no wrong in my book- sasy- sultry-smoky- another consumate musician. You go, Cassandra! Elton John- interesting song choice (about Geffen, a brother), sung by Elton (another brother)- also loved his remarks! 9. Wynonna- I wanna marry you Wynonna! Call me! Not only did she burn it up with the songs she san, she also pinched Bryan adam's butt- Takes a Southerner to inject some LIFE into the party, right!? 10. Ok- I'm done. I thought it was fabulous and I will watch it again and again- I will buy the tape and CD and DVD and Laserdisc when they come out. AND I was lucky enough to get a poster and press kit from my frienf Glenn, who photographed the affair. Bye! James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:00:35 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: feed back and thanks from Kurt From: "Kurt Joachim von Behrmann" Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:43:21 -0700 April 22, 2000 from Kurt Thanks for the feedback. For those who took time to write, yes I will respond to you individually and thank you for your thoughts. Here are some ideas I would like to throw out. There were several songs that to me that were not performed, that I thought would have been great. Here is my list of songs for a Joni Mitchell tribute. This is not to say the songs chosen for her TNT special were not great, they were, but I just thought of songs I would have liked to see others perform. Not performed, but perhaps should have. 1. Micheal from Mountains 2. Ladies of the Canyon 3. The Last Time I saw Richard 4. Court and Spark 5. Edith and the King Pin 6. Coyote 7. Jericho 8. Cotton Avenue 9. The Hissing of Summer Lawns 10. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire 11. God Must Be A Boogie Man 12. Cherokee Louise 13. Sunny Sunday 14. My Secret Place 15. Happiness is the Best Facelift 16. Man from Mars 17. Love Puts On a New Face 18. Blue Hotel Room 19. Cactus Tree 20. Rainy Night House 21. Willie 22. Talk to Me 23. The Gallery 24. I don't know where I stand 25. Good Friends 26. Dog Eat Dog 27. Turbulent Indigo These are just some suggestions. I didn't realize what a long list of interesting songs she has composed. Most are real jewels. Ok, now here is a list of musicians and singers I would have liked to see but were not there. 1. Prince, or whoever he is now. He is just a great musician no matter how skimpy his underwear. 2. Chaka Khan, I just adore her. 3. Aimee Mann, I think she is a strong singer songwriter who superficially resembles Joni Mitchell. 4. Annie Lenox, great voice and she knows how to use it 5. Etta James, powerful singer. Her version of "At Last" will kill you it is so moving. 6. Jaco Pastorius. OK, he is no longer with us, but what he did with Joni Mitchell's music cannot be underestimated. Great Bassist. 7. Macy Gray, I think she would be interesting to see her sing a folk song. 8. Tony Bennet, hey why not. 9. Bob Dylan, he already recorded Big Yellow Taxi 10. James Brown, He rocks in my humble opinion. Can't you see him doing the Circle Game? 11. Aretha Franklin, Woman of Heart and Mind, enough said. 12. Seal, oh yes Seal. 13. Hall and Oats, not a bad choice when you really think about it 14. Stevie Wonder, I think they share some similiar approaches to music 15. Ray Charles, The Last Time I saw Richard, what a choice 16. Jewel 17. The Rolling Stones 18. The Jefferson Airplane, slash Starship 19. Jackson Brown 20. CSN and Y That is all. Let me know what you think at kvonbehrmann@hotmail.com Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:04:55 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: NJC Elian Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:47:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori Fye My tears flowed uncontrollably on Saturday morning when I turned on the news. I was outraged, frustrated, and embarrassed to be an American. I wanted to drive to the Capitol and protest for whatever good it would do. Upon calming down a bit, however, I find that I have many conflicting thoughts about young Elian and his situation. The part of me that grew up in a flag-waving, blue-collar, midwestern American family and that served for 10 years in the Air Force hopes that Elian would stay here in the U.S., where he has a chance for a "better" life. That part also hopes that Juan Miguel and his wife will find our country to be wonderful and will apply for asylum and want to stay. (Perhaps that's what most everyone hopes, and is part of the reason for our government's decision to rely our our slow court system to make the ultimate determination.) The part of me that understands that my idea of a "better" life may not correspond with living in Little Havana, Miami, wonders what kind of childhood Elian may have if he could grow up there. Might be terrific. Might not. The part of me that's a bit socialist and wanted for years to live in a commune (root of the word "communist") understands that some people may truly be happy in their Communist country. That part believes that children who live in a country at peace with itself -- regardless of its government or economic system -- are no doubt happy and as well-adjusted as their peers anywhere else. Although we don't hear much news from that island, if Cuba was in the midst of civil war or a famine, wouldn't more people be fleeing? Who are we to insist that people live as we do, anyway? Right in the middle of this letter, I had to make a call to my phone acquaintance Matthew at The History Channel to change arrangements for one of my bosses. Matthew offered the opinion that Elian's family appears to be in the top one percent of economic situations in Cuba. Part of me is inclined to agree. Ultimately though, I remain incensed that our government chose to order (or allow) INS agents to take Elian at gunpoint. I don't have a problem with agents using their presence and weapons for crowd control. However, I don't for one second believe that - -- whether or not the Miami relatives had guns in the house -- the relatives would have allowed physical harm to come to Elian. Bursting into that private residence in that manner was WRONG. The action terrorized Elian (and the AP photo has caused young children to have nightmares). The action portrayed us, as a nation, to be just as oppressive as any of the nations we routinely condemn. For the time being, I am happy that Elian has been reunited with his father. I am trusting that he is a resilient child, and I hope that he will quickly overcome all the trauma inflicted upon him by everyone involved, beginning with his mother -- what was she thinking? For the time being, I am happy that the Gonzalez family will be guests in our country, whatever the outcome may be. However, the first part of me that I mentioned, the part that served my country in the name of democracy and freedom, continues to lean toward the idea that more freedom is always better. The boss I mentioned in a preceeding paragraph is a very conservative and oft-published writer who has passed on to me this link, which many of us will find interesting: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/marz5/006-i.html Here's a bit of what you'll read there, which is the English translation of recent comments from Fidel Castro: "Yesterday, we heard concerns about how to resolve the problem of the child’s separation from the false mother; who would be receiving him and how he would be reincorporated into his family. Then, we have found the perfect formula for his reinsertion, I would even say the best formula, which our people will better understand after listening to those dialogues between Elián and his father in the last few days. ... "Juan Miguel would be accompanied by his wife and Elián’s little brother who is six months old and of whom he speaks with great affection because he loves his brother despite the fact that when he left the baby was hardly three months old. By the way, this is a very lively six-month-old. Also traveling with them would be a very dear cousin of Elián, 12 first-grade classmates chosen from among his closest friends and among them, of course, Hanser, the boy who shared his school desk; also his teacher who cried so much those first days after the tragedy for the loss of her student and the sadness of his classmates, and his kindergarten teacher who had previously worked with him for a whole year and knows him very well; the neonatologist who cared for him from birth, a team of psychiatrists, psychologists, pediatricians and others, as well as an advisor who is familiar with the American legal and political system. "The purpose of this action is not only to preserve the child’s health, as you have rightly indicated, but also to facilitate the resumption of his education so that he can pass the school tests and move into second grade." The article ends with this: "Surely, the children, the children will be happy to be reunited with Elián and so neither the U.S. government nor anyone else would have to worry that the child be sent to Cuba which for them is hell. It would actually be there, under the Washington sky, that the reunification would take place albeit with his teachers, his doctors, his psychologists and his classmates to prevent that child from continuing to get sick and for him to immediately begin recuperating his health." The child's "health." Hmm. Hmm? Enough of my rambling for now ... I remain confused. Comments? Lori in DC NPIMH: God Must Be A Boogie Man ===== lrfye@yahoo.com lrfye@gateway.net fyel@aol.com ===== "Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." (George Bernard Shaw) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:11:28 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: The Joni Tribute In a message dated 4/25/2000 12:27:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << 2. RICHARD THOMPSON!!!! Eric Clapton isn't God, Richard Thompson is! He tore the place up! I thought his rendition of WOODSTOCK was magnificent- raw, poignant, and sung by a man who knows! BLACK CROW brought goose bumps- it was phenominal- And I couldn't disagree more- Although I wasn;'t there and I don;t presume to know what goes through Joni's head, I can't help but think that she too was appreciative of Thompson's power. Two penultimate musicians. Magnificent! >> We have very simalar opinions except I really enjoyed KD version of Help Me. Now granted (and lets not throw popcorn and boos at me) I have only watched it once-lack of time- time what the hell is that, for I certianly don't have any!!) so if she was off key I didn't notice it the first time round. I have never been crazy about Richard Thompson and to prove it I have not one Cd or LP unless you include Fairport Convention. But I thought Black Crow was fabulous! I do not like Winonna either but boy that girl can sing!! I am glad she stoped playing the guitar and focused on the vocal. Thanks for the great post!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:13:06 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell 2000 U.S. tour - a request In a message dated 4/25/2000 12:27:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << t would be wonderful if Joni could have the best of them, and it would be wonderful too if I could have a couple of them back signed by Joni. I'm asking if anybody that will meet Joni during the tour may receive the photos, give them to Joni and send a couple of them signed for me. Of course, I will charge mailing paying, and send some of the photos for hte kind persons who may help me. Thanks again. >> WOW!! If anybody knows for sure that they will meet her I would love to get an autograph as well...just make it out to Catgirl ;o) Cat..... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #213 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?