From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #210 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, April 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 210 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: TNT All Start (sic) Tribute To Joni Mitchell [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni Today Show Interview (more thoughts) ["Kakki" ] By Crosby on Ehetridge NJC [catman ] Re: By Crosby on Ehetridge NJC [catman ] what a week ["Garret" ] RE:friends and joni ["Garret" ] Re: Christine Lavin [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts [Siresorrow@aol.com] toontown, krall, and giving up baby [Kate ] RE: Christine Lavin NJC [warning: not written in seattle] ["Wally Kairuz] RE: Christine Lavin njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: SCBob / Messiah alert NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Joni's Tribute [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Post C+S [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: Return of the Muse (kind of long) (NJC) [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: Singers/Musicians on the JMDL [AsharaJM@aol.com] Joni Tickets [Christopher Kornmann ] Joni & Folk Song [john low ] Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Fwd: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts (NJC) [AngelinoCoyote@ao] Re: Joni & Folk Song [dsk ] Where love and kindness are... [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:38:59 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: TNT All Start (sic) Tribute To Joni Mitchell Well, it's a big wide world, and we're all gonna have different takes, some aligning and some veering. Here's a few of mine. "Kurt Joachim von Behrmann" wrote: >Wynonna did a great job, and has a way with Joni Mitchell's music. Although >I am not a big Brian Adams fan, he mangaed to do a respectable job. But >Wynnona way outclassed him as a musician and singer. I thought she sounded horrible (really out of tune) on Robbery, better on Radio but too much a slave to the original phrasing. Adams OK, but you know who would have sounded great on Robbery, either with Adams or, better yet, by herself ... Tina Turner would have rocked the house. >k.d. Lang is just excellent. Her rendition of a slower sultry version of >her big 70's hit "Help ME" was just too sweet. This one really captured the >erotic feel of this song. Loved k.d. ... very cool version, almost a 70s R&B vibe, like Marvin Gaye. Made it her own. >Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter were just perfect choices. I could >see them doing a whole concert of Mitchell compositions. Would have very much preferred Shawn by herself. Very much. >Sweet Honey in the Rock, they are always good, and this night they were >not exception. A nice reworking of the Circle Game. Dug the cycling and weaving. Made it their own. >Honorable Mention, Ok, but not my favorites > >Cindy Lauper, now I enjoy Cindy Lauper. She has made some good music, but I >just don't think this rendition was as charming as Joni Mitchell's. I >could think of any number of songs she could have sung that would have been better >for her. It didn't work for me. Loved Cindi(y?), but probably shouldn't have gone around again at the end, though. Oh well ... made it her own, with mystery and soul. >James Taylor, I like James Taylor, but the song and the way he sung it >did not capture the drama of the original. Again, I can think of a number of >Mitchell songs that would have been a better choice. James killed me, totally made it his own, in fact, sounded like he wrote the music. Beautiful. >Diana Krall, I have to admit Joni did this one well, I think this was >a nice version. Well worth the time. It just seems that certain songs are >just so closely associated with Joni Mitchell that it is hard to envision anyone >doing them nearly as well. I have previously been mostly lukewarm on Krall ... she's competent but doesn't move me (although I did enjoy her bossa-nova version of Irving Berlin's Let's face the Music and Dance that she did recently on the Tonight Show). But she definitely moved me on Case Of You, and definitely made it her own. One of the best of the night. >Someone take the mic away > >Richard Thompson, I think there was a reason there were so few cuts to >Joni Mitchell during Richard Thompson's horrific version of the 60's anthem >"Woodstock." What he did to "Black Crow should be considered a criminal >act. His voice, grating and off and on key singing was just awful. To >do what he did should be punished. I really think Joni Mitchell thought it >sucked as badly as I did. Easily the worse part of the show in my opinion. Pretty much agree. His singing was awful, out of tune, time, etc. Nice guitar on Woodstock, though. I've enjoyed much of what he's done in the past (Shoot Out the Lights), but he was wrong on this gig, although there's no inherent reason he couldn't have been right for it. >Cassandra Wilson tried hard, but it just didn't jell for me. This has never >been an easy song to sing, but Wilson for me just didn't capture the "jazz" >feel of the song. Dry Cleaner is a fun song and it was all lost on this >dead version that just did not swing. Didn't thrill me. I agree ... rhythm section not grooving. >Elton John, boy it was a real pain to see him play and sing this classic. >It just did not suite him any more than his bad wigs. Elton has made some >classic music, but I think he lacks the sincerity in his music of Joni >Mitchell. I think he just seemed out of place. OK, bad wigs, rings and all, I dug Elton a lot. He managed to pay homage to Joni but it also sounded like a tune he could have written. Rocking and swinging, soulful, and the right chord changes to boot. Some other observations: 1) Very surreal, Hollywood-vibe to it all ... so un-Joni like. She says as much when she speaks at the end. Like those Oscar tributes to Jack Nicholson, etc. ... "this is your life." Bizarre. 2) Many singers, though not all, sounded very out of tune and I wondered whether there was a monitor problem 3) Dean Parks! Dean Parks! Dean Parks! ... man that guy played some perfect, soulful tasty guitar, and all while looking like he was whittling on a porch. 4) I dug the photos hanging by strings, etc. in the retrospectives. And some incredibly gorgeous photos of Joni. 5) Hillary didn't bother me; she was sweet. 6) What's the big whoop about k.d lang's outfit? She's doing her own thing and looked very comfortable. 7) Here's some folks I think would have been fantastic on the show: Prince (self-avowed big-time Joni fan), Peter Gabriel, Phoebe Snow, Annie Lennox, Pat Metheny, just to name a few. 8) Joni absolutely killed on BSN, as well as the orchestra. Outstanding. And, once, again, I have to celebrate Vince Mendoza's incredible arrangement ... he made it his own. Fred, now ... and forever ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:48:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Today Show Interview (more thoughts) I also thought Laura's insight hit right to the core. Mark, your thoughts regarding Joni's only child status and her relationship with her parents are also very insightful. However, I've read in a few interviews where Joni distinctly qualifies her comments on the BSN concept, saying that it is just a creative device she used about the roller coaster of romantic love only. As far as her sustaining relationships, I actually think she's done pretty well considering her fame and the life she has lived. I was surprised to read in the updated CSN bio that Graham takes the responsibility for their relationship ending, saying that *he* was the one who did not put enough into the relationship to sustain it (he was off too much with the boys touring and enjoying the band's first flush of success). Who knows about James T. except that he seemed to become more enamored with Carly at the time (hi colin). She and Klein held it together ten years and are still obviously on very close terms. Her relationship with Donald has sustained almost ten years and that's with the added challenge of the geographical long-distance between them. I think it's simplistic to attribute her relationship ups and downs to being an only child. No one has a perfect relationship with all the loved ones in their lives. There are so many other factors in life that can bring challenges to any particular relationship. And now I know some of you out there who know I am also an only child are now thinking "aha, she's defensive!" Well, from my own personal experience and from what I've read in studies, only children *do* sometimes have difficulty understanding where other people are coming from because they have not been exposed to the give and take battles and negotiations experienced by children with siblings. They are also very used to and content with being alone - solitude is a natural state to them - and tend to be more independent. It's not so much that the world revolves around them, but rather, that they tend to live in their own world. Not a recipe for great success in all relationships, but definitely a good recipe for stimulating creativity. I do think Joni's relationship with Kilauren is probably the most challenging in her life and I'm with the camp who thinks some of her most brilliant writing and music is yet to come out of the experience. Kiluaren is probably also having her own challenges these days as a single mother with a small child and a new baby. Kakki NP: Kyle Eastwood - Solace ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:22:49 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts > > In one of the recent interviews I've read or heard with Joni she stated (I'm > paraphrasing) that romantic love seemed to be a trick of nature designed to > keep the human race propagating. After the bloom of chemical love dissipates > there better be something else you can appreciate or the romance is doomed. That 'chemical' thing does not last. For a relationship to last there has to be something else-like love for the person. There are men I have felt a strong attraction to, had relationships with, that were bastards underneath the chemicals. Of course I was too young to understand that at the time. After being with John 19 years, I can say that the love just grows deeper as time goes by. Of course the days of sex for breakfast lucnh and dinner have gone but the passion has not. Nothing has become predictable. Life is still exciting and we still talk twice a day on the phone, and certainly everynight. when he is on a business trip, he still phones. yet we live different lives and have different interests. we don't live in eachother's pockets. The only people we know who have been tgether as long as we have are our neighbours Joyce and Raphael. I don't know what makes them tick. However, from the people we know who have broken up, I would say that the one thing we have noticed about them is that they were not willing to live and let live and above all let go. Control seemed to be the issue. I can imagine, but of course do not know, that Joni would be very controlling and demanding and hard to please. She gave up her daughter for her art. Love is about loving the person as they are and not as you wish them to be. I t also has to do with self love and I would hazard a guess that joni has problems in that department too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:29:09 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Penny said > > << BTW, do other's think Joni > has aged 10 years in the last two? Is it the camera that's aging her so > much lately or is it stress, possibly form the struggle over her > relationship with Kilauren? >> > > While she looked a lot older on the Tribute show, I thought she looked much > younger on Rosie, and even Rosie commented how good she looked. I imagine > it's the different lighting and makeup. I have only seen the photo's Deb put up and I noticed that she looked heavier and matronly. But she doesn't look old. She looks like many a woman does at this age. she looks like a granny. I like the kaftan type clothes too. I think she looked well and radiant. Perhaps she is feeling more at peace with the world and herself. I certainly think he look is preferable to the type of look say Jaon Rivers has or Joan Collins-they remind me of the lving dead as in Death Becomes Her. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:47:54 +0100 From: catman Subject: By Matt Shepherds father NJC It’s amazing what can happen to a person in a short amount of time. Two years ago Judy and I were wondering how our sons were doing in school and worrying about their future in this new, high-tech world. My biggest fear was that they would lose hope and give up. That they would be overwhelmed by the high cost of everything, be discouraged by the low wages, and be turned off by the impersonal, uncaring manner in which corporations seem to treat their employees. Because Matthew was the oldest and would be the first to meet this “reality,” I worried more about him. He seemed a poor fit for this dog-eat-dog world because he was too sensitive to other people’s feelings, was not competitive in the business sense, and was much too idealistic. Unfortunately, it wasn’t in my future to see what his future would become. Xenophobia stopped Matt before he could get started. Xenophobia is a fear of foreign or strange people. Matt didn’t know the word, and it cost him his life. He accepted everyone until they gave him reason to think differently. Being raised in Wyoming definitely contributed to that attitude. His mother and I did as well. Judy and I were aware of problems in other parts of the country with people not being accepted because of their religion or skin color, but that didn’t happen in Wyoming. With such a small population, Wyoming was a safe place to raise a family. Everyone got along, and there were minimal problems with “being different.” Or so we thought. Now that I look back, though, I can see that the fear was there. I just kept my head in the sand and ignored it. All I wanted to do was raise my family, pay my house mortgage, and grow old without any controversy while I spent time with the boys and their families. As much as I looked forward to a long and loving relationship with Matthew, I also worried about him. Being overseas and so far away from him while he was in high school and college, I found myself wanting to call him daily just to talk and laugh. We still argued. (He was as stubborn and argumentative as his father.) In fact, we had a dandy of an argument on our last camping trip together. It didn’t last long, though. They never did. By the time of that last camping trip, I knew he was gay. He had told me earlier that summer. He was rather surprised when I didn’t react to the news. After all, Matt would still be Matt. It just meant that the possibility of grandkids had decreased dramatically. Gay. Did you notice that a couple of paragraphs up I used the word homosexual instead of gay? I didn’t know what the new definition of gay was until Matt was in high school. To me, gay meant happy, carefree, no worries. It wasn’t that the term was new; it just had never applied to my family or friends. It hadn’t affected my life, rights, or paycheck, so I ignored any reference to it. Typical attitude. I’d read something about gay rights or watched something about it on television, but it didn’t mean much. That all changed in October 1998. I never realized or appreciated how much Matt suffered physically, socially, and mentally until it was too late. To me, he was just Matt, just my son. Shepard is a construction safety engineer based in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. He and his wife, Judy, became gay rights advocates after the October 1998 murder of their son Matthew. The couple, who focus their activism through the Casper, Wyo.–based Matthew Shepard Foundation, have one other son, Logan. For Shepard’s full story, pick up the Millennium March edition of The Advocate, now on sale. • Subscribe now via our online form. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:49:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: By Crosby on Ehetridge NJC “Crosby, you’re straight,” someone will say. “Why do you care about gay rights? Why does it even matter to you?” I get asked those sorts of questions a lot. It’s funny how genuinely curious people are; they really can’t figure it out. And I always tell them, “Because it isn’t about gay rights, it’s about civil rights.” It’s the same thing as asking a white person why he or she should care about the rights of black people. Everybody’s rights are important to me because they’re people. Just like me. Not because they’re gay—because they’re people. And this country was founded on the idea that we are all equal and that we all get the same shot. We separate people by demonizing the other person. When we say, “Oh, those people are different, they’re bad” or “Those green people, they’re really dangerous because they’re not like us blue people,” that’s demonizing. And it’s what people who manipulate other people have done throughout human history. The way to counter that—the way to bring people together—is to humanize the other person. When we see that the person we’ve been told is so different from us also has two legs, and he puts his pants on one leg at a time, and he eats breakfast just like we do, and he’s got dreams and hopes, and he works at a job just like everybody else, that’s the humanizing process. The truth is, we’re a lot more alike than we are different. Along with my friend, David Bender, I’ve just completed Stand and Be Counted, a book and television documentary about artist activism. Over the last four years we interviewed a wide range of artists, including the Indigo Girls, Melissa Etheridge, Elton John, and Michael Stipe. Through their art—and as positive role models—they’ve each demonstrated that there’s no fundamental difference between gay people and straight people. We all have the same dreams and the same problems, and we’re all in the same boat. In the last few months I’ve learned firsthand that there are plenty of people in this country who disapprove of gays and lesbians raising children and who are also arrogant and judgmental enough to think they have the right to prevent it. Some of these people are so square, they have corners. To them, my being the biological father of a lesbian couple’s children means that I’m somehow promoting the breakdown of the American family. Of course, I understand that there are people who legitimately question the wisdom of it. Fine, that’s their right. But as I see it, their right ends when it becomes more than an opinion. When they try to deny Melissa and Julie’s right to be parents or my right to help them realize their dream, that’s where I draw the line. The traditional American family is a little rare on the ground now, and it’s getting redefined. That’s not the fault of gay people. If anything, it’s a measure of how hard it is to make any relationship work, straight or gay. What’s important is not the gender of the parents; what’s important is that their children are loved. Kids live on love the way flowers live on water. If you give them a whole lot of love, they flourish. It’s really as simple as that. Crosby is touring with his band, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. For Crosby’s full story, pick up the Millennium March edition of The Advocate, on sale now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:56:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: By Crosby on Ehetridge NJC Just read this and noticed the name of Crosby's friend-David Bender!!!! (here a bender is another word for a gay man!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 00:36:33 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: what a week Well, i've finally caught up on all those digests of late. i think i'll take this window of oppurtunity to throw a few things out there: Last week i was utterly bummed- not only did i drop my cd copy of Blue and scratch River to shreds (this happened to my Hits version recently as well), but i totally blew my practical exam in Palaentology and Structural Geology. so as you can imagine i was feeling a little down by mid week (you know, just when i wanted to hear River). so, i was eating dinner with my mother, the rest of the family were off somewhere else, she said"when u go to america, leave out that cd you always play with the songs i like" confused, as you can imagine, i said "joni mitchell??" "the one with 'you're a mean old daddy but i like you' and 'the seasons go round and round' and 'i've looked at clouds from both sides now'" "yes"i was chuffed"that's my Joni, of course i'll leave it here for you" "that way"she went on"whenever i miss you, i can listen to it" :-)she made my week a few days ago there was discussion about who ACOY was written about, and having read all the replies i must bow to our superior Joni-knowledge people. i was way off apparently. i thought i read somewhere that ACOY was about Leonard Cohen. IS this total rubbish? Or was this another song? OR is it indeed possible that ACOY is about him? i echo the sentiments posted recently- i know nothing about all those men in Jonis life. maybe some kind heart would inform us all. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 00:42:43 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:friends and joni you know what, i noticed exactly the same thing recently myself. not only does my friend refuse to even acknowledge Joni, but he tends to insult her, me for liking her, and everyone on this list (hate mail to blasphemous_contemptuous_ignorantboy@.... only kidding). i can fully understand that he may not like Fleetwood Mac, Bob Dylan or Cher ( i know, how can anyone *not* like Cher?). but when it comes to Joni, sorry, noone can convince me that her lyrics are BAD, or that she can't sing. >I think it is my enthusiasm for Joni that makes my friend >not want to give her a chance. yes, it could be that or my utter disliking of Manic Street Preachers. i would never let him come to a Joni concert wiht me (if we actually were lucky enough to have JM playing in Ireland), not even as a last resort to try and convert him- that's my selfish side which dictates that i'd have to enjoy myself unforgivingly. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:41:28 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Christine Lavin In a message dated 4/22/00 9:07:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TanyerSCO@aol.com writes: << wallyk, still feverish and flu-ish, but happy in bridget jones's kind of way because I've lost 13 pounds in 5 days!!!! [catching the flu is so much easier than dieting...] >> now this is sick, but i love a good stomach flu every year just to drop 5 pounds. it's so easy. you don't want anything at all. you just lie there and dream of better times. then, before you know it, you've lost five big ones. only bad part is if you get one when you have plans for a trip or something. worse thing, the flu in a hotel. pretty lonenly. pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:43:41 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts In a message dated 4/22/00 11:04:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Although I love Both Sides Now, the way she talks about modern relationships when she describes the concept for the album seems awfully cynical. She seems to be saying that romantic love is doomed to failure from the outset. >> i love the woman. and i agree with this totally. pat not in seattle. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:59:05 -0600 From: Kate Subject: toontown, krall, and giving up baby Penny: "Holly Cole rules!" this past week, but she's playing there on Sunday night, two days after the Mendel opening! ;-)" Any idea where in Toontown she's playing? We should get tickets NOW. Tanya: I suggest "Love Scenes" for your initial run with Diana Krall. It was the first one I got of hers and remains by far my favourite. Catman: "She gave up her daughter for her art." I don't think this is true. Joni gave up her daughter *for her daughter.* It wasn't in order to make it easier for her to pursue her own interests; it was because she wanted her daughter to have the secure home that she didn't trust herself to provide. I used to have trouble figuring out how anyone could be so *selfish* as to give up their child because they didn't want the responsibility of raising him/her; now I think it is the utmost loving sacrifice that a woman makes because of her love and concern for her child... it requires putting the child's needs first, not your own need (I can't imagine parting with my child, even if I were abusive -- it would be more pain than I personally could bear; and that's more selfish than giving your child up to what you hope is a better home) for the child in your life. Hope this makes sense, I'm probably not explaining myself as well as I should. Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:22:16 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Christine Lavin NJC [warning: not written in seattle] tanya, i found about half a dozen of lavin's cd's at a barnes&noble in manhattan last february. the attendant told me that here were a few more, if i cared to search. i got 23 entries at amazon.com just now, including a 2-volume tribute. best, wallyk, getting ready to venture out in the streets after 5 days of confinement to eat some rosca de pascua. > I have just discovered Christine Lavin myself and am trying to find more of > her music. Where can I find some recordings? Do you know that song "It's a > good thing he can't read my mind". I'm trying to find some stuff for a show > I'm planning on doing here in NYC in the next year or so. > > Any help would be much appreciated! > : ) > Tanya > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:25:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Christine Lavin njc lavin has a very complete page at http://www.christinelavin.com/ wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:37:57 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: SCBob / Messiah alert NJC I for one am very appreciate of the Messiah links and suggest Bob get "A Soulful Celebration" Messiah from Reprise (1992 release) for what the AME choir would sound like were they they to do Messiah... try it, Bob, you try everything else musically, this one rocks the house! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:33:14 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Tribute Heather sobbed: <> Heather, you darling, you!! Considering how much I cried at the Tribute show, with Maggie and Chuck not far behind, I for one will be very grateful for those tissues!! :-) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:50:52 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Post C+S In a message dated 4/22/00 10:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, davebeth@bellatlantic.net writes: << It would have been great to have Seal there, Dave. The show could've done > with a few more guys. >> I keep thinking it would have been really cool too if the elegant and spirited David Bowie had been there and sung one of Joni's elegant, spirited songs from the 80's-90's, like "Three Great Stimulants," or, I don't know, something on Chalk Mark. And what about Paul Simon--I've always thought that there is a curious absence of connection of any kind between Joni and P.S. I have heard her mention him (but only mention, never really praise--of course) but I've never heard him talk of Joni--maybe I've just missed those interviews, who knows. I think it would have been amazing if someone had sung "Cherokee Louise," or what about "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" or "The Only Joy in Town." Any of them; I could go on and on! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:56:33 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Return of the Muse (kind of long) (NJC) In a message dated 4/21/00 11:44:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << This is such true and wonderful advice. The muse may lay way dormant for years but it is always there waiting and can be re-activated. Inspiration helps greatly (The Artists Way book SueMac recommended is a fantastic book), daily practice definitely helps call up the muse and the sincere encouragement of friends works perhaps the greatest magic. I could relate so much to Bonne's post. >> Great posts by both kate and kakki. Both were brave (honest), clear-eyed and inspirational all at once. Thank you both for them. rg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:14:12 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Singers/Musicians on the JMDL Kakki wrote: << A great dream would be to one day have all the JMDL musicians all together at one big Jonifest. >> And Marcel wrote: <> And after that, EVERYONE on the list gathers in Boston for the THIRD ANNUAL NEW ENGLAND LABOR DAY JONIFEST!!!! (E-mail me for more info!!!) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 00 00:01:32 -0400 From: Christopher Kornmann Subject: Joni Tickets Hello all... I wanted to see if anyone needed tickets for Joni's upcoming show in NYC. I have 2 extra tickets for Monday the 22nd. Please let me know if anyone is interested or knows anyone that might be. The cost was $120 for both. (I would be willing to sell them for $100). Let me know. Thanks. Chris - --------------------- Christopher Kornmann Graphic Designer Spit & Image 828 Waring Avenue Bronx, NY 10467 718.798.2862 spitandimage@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:08:15 +1000 From: john low Subject: Joni & Folk Song I know this debate about Joni and folk music has been around for ages, but I am grateful to all those who took the time to respond to my original post. Being a relative ‘newbie’ (been a member for a year now), I wasn’t around for the earlier discussions. I guess inspiration reveals itself in different ways and I actually do think Joni’s work indicates that she has absorbed many aspects of the folk idiom, including a strong sense of narrative. I also think, though, that folk music was never the dominant influence with her. It shares that space with jazz, classical and literary influences. But, all this has been said before I’m sure. David Lahm and Sue McNamara referred me to ‘The Silky Veils of Ardour’. I take your point about this one, and feel a bit silly for overlooking it. Yes, even the title exudes the folk influence! And the discussion David and Sue’s posts initiated, suggesting a link between this song and one or more traditional folk songs, has given me some very tasty food for thought. It also reminded me of another case of ‘appropriation’ which occurred at around the same time – The Grateful Dead’s beautiful ‘Lady With A Fan’ (from ‘Terrapin Station’) which is basically a re-working of the traditional song ‘Lady of Carlisle’. This whole issue of ‘borrowing’ or ‘appropriation’ of someone else’s material is a very interesting, though contentious, one. Some would argue that it is an accepted part of the folk tradition. But just when one can attach one’s own name to the resulting composition is problematic! John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:14:20 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby Kate asks and suggests: <> Holly Cole with Marc Jordan Location: Saskatoon Centennial Auditorium Date: Sunday, July 2 Time: 7:30 Tickets: $34 Here's the Sask Jassfest link: http://www.saskjazz.com/index.html Since I supplied the requested info, will you keep the high sticking to a minimum if I should happen to find myself in a direct line between you and Joni? ;~D Catman: <<"She gave up her daughter for her art.">> Kate replied: <> Kate, your take is more in line with my understanding of the situation. It sounds like Joni did everything she could to keep the baby, short of going to her folks for help. And even in that decision she may have been playing the protecter of her folks' reputation in the community. I don't think her art or her career factored in one iota in her decision to give up her baby. If anything her wealth that came so soon after, made her feel more heartache for giving up her child. Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 01:23:41 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts (NJC) - --part1_b1.34bb62d.2633e2dd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_b1.34bb62d.2633e2dd_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Full-name: AngelinoCoyote Message-ID: <6c.334c627.2633d8cc@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 00:40:44 EDT Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts (NJC) To: catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 101 In a message dated 4/22/00 3:24:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << That 'chemical' thing does not last. For a relationship to last there has to be something else-like love for the person. There are men I have felt a strong attraction to, had relationships with, that were bastards underneath the chemicals. Of course I was too young to understand that at the time. >> Coyote Responds: I tend to agree with the wild Catman. Coyotes love Cats. Pardon my self indulgence, but I do feel compelled to share a few thoughts. I started kinda early. My first and second serious relationships (Mr. 1 and Mr 2.) were based in chemicals (both hormonal and otherwise) and durations were counted more in the terms of years than decades. Neither of which worked out for the long term. My third had so little chemical to it, I felt rather holy. But, it had so many other things that we endured for ten years. Now on my fourth (who says the third is the charm?), we have found some of both and I envision myself here for the duration. It's been eight years so far. Funny thing though, I have no relationship with Mr. 3 at all these days, still talk weekly with Mr. 1 and did so as well with Mr 2. until the week before he died a few years ago. So, I think chemicals are good and old romantics meet the fate someday. No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. - --part1_b1.34bb62d.2633e2dd_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 02:19:03 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song john low wrote: > This whole issue of ‘borrowing’ or ‘appropriation’ of someone else’s > material is a very interesting, though contentious, one. Some would > argue that it is an accepted part of the folk tradition. But just when > one can attach one’s own name to the resulting composition is > problematic! People on the list that know more of music history can speak to this with more authority than I can, but I don't think that "reusing" music without attribution is limited to the folk tradition. Some examples that come to mind are Durufle "redoing" Ubi Caritas, a very old chant, or Bach including tunes so old the writers weren't known in St. Matthew's Passion, or tunes in the New World Symphony (by Dvorak?), or folk tunes in Applachian Spring (by Copland?). I'm sure there are many other examples. It seems to be something composers have always done. Nowadays if a song has been around for more than 75 years (when copyright protection ends), there's probably no legal need to list the original writer (if that person's name is even known). Someone who's more of a folkie than Joni, Joan Baez for example, would probably always make it as clear as possible where a song came from because that fits in with her image as a singer of traditional songs. But someone known as a songwriter/composer may not want to call attention to their reusing an earlier tune, and even though it doesn't seem quite right, apparently there's nothing illegal about it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 02:38:13 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Where love and kindness are... It's almost Easter morning, and this Durufle is playing in my head: Ubi caritas et amor Deus ibi est. (Where true love and kindness are found, God is always there.) Wishing peace, rejoicing and rejuvenation to you all this holiday season. Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #210 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?