From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #208 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, April 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 208 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Cute crowd shots... [Richard Rice ] some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell [Bounced Message <] Re: Tribute and a list of men [catman ] Re: some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell [catman ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #207 ["Kate Bennnett" ] Mysterious Tape and Tree Info (NJC) [Michael Paz ] friends and joni ["Carver, Dax" ] Fw: K.d. lang's clothes ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell ["Helen M. Adc] lavin (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni & Folk Song ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell [catman ] Re: Joni & Folk Song njc (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Joni & Folk Song ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni & Folk Song ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni & Folk Song ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: DIANA KRALL ["alan larson" ] Re: Joni & Folk Song ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Fw: Joni & Folk Song ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Joni & Folk Song [David Wright ] re: Joni & Folk Song [Mark Domyancich ] joni tribute smoking ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Joni & Folk Song (NJC) [David Wright ] Re: Joni & Folk Song ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Silky Veils [Randy Remote ] Re: Return of the Muse (kind of long) (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts [mann@chicagonet.net] Joni's Artwork/Exhibition [Spyder8@webtv.net] Krall, Fitzgerald, Scofield Sweeps (NJC) [mann@chicagonet.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:19:30 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Cute crowd shots... Hi all. Awesome Joni times, eh? Kakki wrote: >The guy sitting next to Joni on her right is her boyfriend Donald Freed. And he did look especially gorgeous that night! The guy who sat on the other side of her (my hunch is Steve Macklam) is also pretty cute ;-) < Ha! That's so typical of her. I have seen the picture of Joni and Bob Mueller. So typical of her, always drapped all over the cute guys. Gee Joan, do you have to be SO transparent??? I want a picture of her in my arms in Saskatoon, like Bobbo's, but I think I'll need a face transplant first. Can anyone help? (Exaggerating slightly, but only so...) John. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:22:57 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell From: "Kurt Joachim von Behrmann" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:20:08 -0700 To: The Group From: Kurt Joachim von Behrmann Subject TNT All Start Tribute To Joni Mitchell Well, I just had to share my five cents worth with the group. I wrote a brief piece about the show, which if anyone is interested I would be happy to email along with my Joni Mitchell inspired art if interested. Ok, to the chase. Overall I really enjoyed the tribute. The high points were for me as follows Wynonna did a great job, and has a way with Joni Mitchell's music. Although I am not a big Brian Adams fan, he mangaed to do a respectable job. But Wynnona way outclassed him as a musician and singer. k.d. Lang is just excellent. Her rendition of a slower sultry version of her big 70's hit "Help ME" was just too sweet. This one really captured the erotic feel of this song. Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter were just perfect choices. I could see them doing a whole concert of Mitchell compositions. Kudos to Ashley Judd who did an excellent job of introducing other acts. She spoke very eloquently. Also to Lawrence Fishbourne and Susan Surandon, who were also perfect. Sweet Honey in the Rock, they are always good, and this night they were not exception. A nice reworking of the Circle Game. Honorable Mention, Ok, but not my favorites Cindy Lauper, now I enjoy Cindy Lauper. She has made some good music, but I just don't think this rendition was as charming as Joni Mitchell's. I could think of any number of songs she could have sung that would have been better for her. It didn't work for me. James Taylor, I like James Taylor, but the song and the way he sung it did not capture the drama of the original. Again, I can think of a number of Mitchell songs that would have been a better choice. Diana Krall, I have to admit Joni did this one well, I think this was a nice version. Well worth the time. It just seems that certain songs are just so closely associated with Joni Mitchell that it is hard to envision anyone doing them nearly as well. Someone take the mic away Richard Thompson, I think there was a reason there were so few cuts to Joni Mitchell during Richard Thompson's horrific version of the 60's anthem "Woodstock." What he did to "Black Crow should be considered a criminal act. His voice, grating and off and on key singing was just awful. To do what he did should be punished. I really think Joni Mitchell thought it sucked as badly as I did. Easily the worse part of the show in my opinion. Cassandra Wilson tried hard, but it just didn't jell for me. This has never been an easy song to sing, but Wilson for me just didn't capture the "jazz" feel of the song. Dry Cleaner is a fun song and it was all lost on this dead version that just did not swing. Elton John, boy it was a real pain to see him play and sing this classic. It just did not suite him any more than his bad wigs. Elton has made some classic music, but I think he lacks the sincerity in his music of Joni Mitchell. I think he just seemed out of place. Let me know what you think by emailing me at address below. Just spare me hate mail. kvonbehrmann@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:28:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Tribute and a list of men anyone > can give me a "discography" of sorts listing all the men of her intimate > life and the songs they go to. I really wish just one of them would > share his side of the story! oh dear, I am soooo tired of having to fend off these questions. Look here, Joni and I had a brief but torrid affair a long time ago. It is over now. we don't even speak. last night whilst sharing an 'after' cigarrette Carly asked me about this but I just said it was far too painful an episode in my life and I really didn't want to talk about it. Isn't it enough I have to put up with her ex (james) all the time without her bringing up this Joni thing all the time? Geez, shea took two of us away from her, isn't that enough? So please, people, don't ask me about this highly personal matter anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:32:32 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell > > k.d. Lang is just excellent. Her rendition of a slower sultry version of her > big 70's hit "Help ME" was just too sweet. This one really captured the > erotic feel of this song. But you left out the MOST important bit of the evening. her clothes. I mean, kd must be going str8 to hell for showing such disrespect to the Goddess. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:52:17 -0400 From: "Brian Butterick" Subject: re: Joni & Folk Song What about "A Bird That Whistles" from CMIARS? It IS the folk song " Corrina, Corrina," after all. - --hat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:14:59 -0700 From: "Kate Bennnett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #207 John, Hmmm,you might be right, I too wondered why he looked so dang familiar- don't have the tape to verify though. Another who was that question- in the back row, was that a little boy with curly black hair? John wroter: I kept looking at the guy to Joni's left, and thinking , "Who is he?". Finally, it came to me. Am I completely off the mark or isn't it Jimmy Webb? John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:30:45 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Mysterious Tape and Tree Info (NJC) Hello All- Happy Easter to all. We plan a musical cook out at a friends house with the kids. It should be a lovely weekend. Some very nice person I believe from this list sent me an unmarked tape of a singer songwriter that is really very good and lifted my spirits alot this week. I can't figure out who sent it though cause the return address was blurred by it getting wet in transit. I love this guys music though and would like to know who I am grateful to???? Was it you??? I must apologise to everyone who is a leaf on my branch for not contacting you earlier, but I have been bombarded by music this week along with everyone in the area wanting to buy or rent a sound system asap. And making tapes for some of the local musicians performing at the JoniFest2000 concert. I invite you all to contact me privately and I will send you my address and if you can be patient. I will try to do it as soon as I can free up some space on my hard drive. Hell I can make copies in my sleep yeah that's the ticket. Bob did an incredible job compiling all of this music. I missed the first volume and look forward to hearing that one sometime. Have a great weekend Michael NP-Woodstock-Matthews Southern Comfort ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:45:56 -0400 From: "Carver, Dax" Subject: Kilauren? Was Kilauren at the tribute? Does anyone know? thanks dax ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:51:16 -0400 From: "Carver, Dax" Subject: friends and joni i was wondering if anyone has had a similar problem as this. My very best friend seems to have blinders on when it comes to Joni. Since our friendship began she (my friend) has influenced my taste somewhat. Due to her, my musical collection has grown tremendously. I go to all the concerts and stuff that she wants to even if I don't necessarily like the musician. However, she does not return this favor. Only recently have I realized this. She won't even give Joni a try and can give no reason for it. Truthfully, I think it is my enthusiasm for Joni that makes my friend not want to give her a chance. Is this familiar to anyone? I'm wondering if it this is not a sign of deeper problem in the friendship. dax ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:17:43 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Fw: K.d. lang's clothes - -----Original Message----- From: vollmarr To: hell@ihug.co.nz Date: Friday, 21 April 2000 20:54 Subject: K.d. lang's clothes Forwarded by request! >Kakki wrote: " k.d. should have dressed up a bit more, " what her mom >thought about k.d. in older generation review of Tribute. I think k.d. >dressed the way she did as a comment about where we are today, so far off >base in what life is all about. I LOL, and I must add that I have laughed >very much lately about anything. I wonder if she did it as a tribute to >what maybe Joni thinks about all this as well. I have been having trouble >posting to the list, I get a "! message could not be sent." Could you post >my comments to joni@smoe.org for me? Sorry! > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:58:09 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell >> k.d. Lang is just excellent. Her rendition of a slower sultry version of her >> big 70's hit "Help ME" was just too sweet. This one really captured the >> erotic feel of this song. Catman wrote in response to the above: >But you left out the MOST important bit of the evening. her clothes. I >mean, kd must be going str8 to hell for showing such disrespect to the >Goddess. Str8 to Hell? Yeah, send her over here, and I'll teach her some respect! Don't know about setting her str8 though. Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:01:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: lavin (NJC) alison, i absolutely adore Christine Lavin!!!! i had never heard any of her music until last st valentine's day. wnyc played her "regretting what i said". my [then] lover and i were just waking up and getting into heavy duty st valentine's morning practices, when all of a sudden i started paying attention to the lyrics. we couldn't focus anymore, she was so funny! i'd really like to know more about her. wallyk, still feverish and flu-ish, but happy in bridget jones's kind of way because I've lost 13 pounds in 5 days!!!! [catching the flu is so much easier than dieting...] > i often wonder if there are any Christine Lavin or Patty Larkin fans hanging > out in jmdl land? > alison e. in slc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:04:45 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song John wrote: >I have long been intrigued by the fact that Joni, unlike other >musicians who emerged from a ‘folk’ background, has never recorded any >traditional folk songs. Even bootleg recordings of early performances, >such as those at the Second Fret, reveal none in her repertoire. Why >did she stop singing them? I think it's got a lot to do with the fact that she wrote so prolifically. She had so many of her own songs, that there just wasn't room for anything else. And it must be more rewarding to see your own songs recorded, than someone else's. It took her until Court and Spark to include a song that she didn't write herself, and it's only now, 30 years on, that's she's recording an (almost) entire album of other people's songs. I also get the feeling that she's never liked the "folk-singer" label, and maybe she feels that recording folk songs (even her own) would just make it that much harder to shake? Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:04:27 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: some thoughts on the All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell > > Str8 to Hell? Yeah, send her over here, and I'll teach her some respect! > Don't know about setting her str8 though. I doubt it- but I am sure you could show her Heaven, Hell > > Hell > _______________________________ > "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with > available extremes" - Carole King > > hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:06:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: kd straight to hell njc hell, your wit is sublime!!!!!! wallyk > Str8 to Hell? Yeah, send her over here, and I'll teach her some respect! > Don't know about setting her str8 though. > > Hell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:07:20 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song njc (md) In a message dated 00-04-21 14:49:22 EDT, rnsc@direct.ca writes: << Marcel lectured: > In folk music the message in the song is never > dominated by the desire to move ones loins and pursue someone for sex. I seem to recall, among other bawdy folk songs, one entitled The Bonny Black Hare which was all about pursuing the body part euphemistically referred to in the title. Folk songs are not all about unions or wars or freeing the oppressed, but occasionally veer toward pulling Wild Mountain Thyme. Rick >> I guess that old bards tune "Charlotte the Harlot the Cowpunchers Whore" is really an old "folk" song as Rick has set us all straight. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:15:55 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song > > What do you think of "The Silky Veils of Ardour?" From its consciously > > antiquated title to the finger-pickin'( is that the right term?) guitar > > intro, this song seems like an uncanny version of/tribute to traditional folk > > music created wholly by Joni herself. > I love this song, but it is certainly more than > an homage to folk music; most of the lyrics where directly > lifted from a folk song (Come All You Fair???) Actually I believe it was more than one traditional song. Part of it comes from 'Wayfaring Stranger' These words are from the version Emmylou Harris sings with Joni's SVOA along side for comparison: WS: SVOA: I am a poor wayfaring stranger I am a poor wayfaring stranger While traveling through this world of woe Traveling through all these highs & lows There is no sickness toil or danger I heard there was no sickness And no toil or danger In that bright world to which I go Just mercy and plenty Where peaceful waters flow And the last bit comes from a song called 'Dink's Blues'. This is how Carly Simon sings that one on the Clouds In My Coffee box set (with Joni along side again): DB: SVOA: If I had wings I wish I had the wings Like Noah's dove Of Noah's pretty little white dove I'd fly across the water So I could fly this raging river To that man I love To reach the one I love Just another example of Joni's genius with words. Even when she's borrowing she somehow manages to make it her own. 'Slouching Toward Bethlehem' and 'Job's Sad Song' are prime examples of how she can shape someone else's poetry or prose into a song lyric and make it true to the original and yet seem new & uniquely her own. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:19:32 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song > Isn't Corrina, Corrina a folk song? > > Debra Shea > I always thought it was an old Blues song. It does have a traditional Blues form, does it not? Mark in Seattle 'People ask me, "Rose, when did you first learn to sing the Blues?" and you know what I tell them? I tell them "On the day I was born." What movie is that from? (Jerry, you're disqualified!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 18:44:45 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song > Just another example of Joni's genius with words. Even when she's > borrowing she somehow manages to make it her own. 'Slouching Toward > Bethlehem' and 'Job's Sad Song' are prime examples of how she can > shape someone else's poetry or prose into a song lyric and make it > true to the original and yet seem new & uniquely her own. > > Mark in Seattle Sorry about the mess those lyrics turned into. I should know better by now than to attempt sending anything with a lot of spaces in it. I can attempt to sort this out if anyone cares. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:44:43 -0000 From: "alan larson" Subject: Re: DIANA KRALL I loved diana krall's performance... as i did jt's, and rt's, and cl's... original and mesmerizing covers... imho great stuff... fresh and original i too noticed joni smoking...one of the perks of being the honoree, i suppose... LOL alan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:57:05 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song I'm certain the song is called 'Poor Wayfaring Stranger'. I think Joan Baez sings a version but definitely in the folk idiom. I love Joni's rewrite and it's wonderful song to sing. Let me tell you a little anecdote. I had to sing acapella in an audition once and this song come into my head just before it was my turn. I cut a stanza out because it didn't suit the timing but I sang I am a poor wayfaring stranger travelling thru all these highs and lows I heard there was no sickness and no toil or danger Just mercy or plenty where peaceful waters flow where peaceful water flow. If I had only seen thru those silky veils of ardour I would have lock up my heart In a golden sheath of armour and kept its crazy beating Under strictest secrecy High security (We were in a small group of actors in a huddle being quite touchy feely, and I felt as if I had them in the palm of my hand at this point, I continued) I wish I had the wings of Noah's pretty little white dove So I could fly this raging river TO reach the one I love (A little awwww came from the girl on my left) But I have no wings And the water is so wide.... We'll have to row a little harder (and at this line, the group burst out laughing) It's just in dreams we fly (still maintaining the overall emotion of the song, playing it like I had meant the line to be funny) It's just in dreams we fly In my dreams we fly.... I guess it's such a tender song, and the gravity of the song is a little hard to take. Or perhaps it my timing, that people felt they needed a little light relief, but the rest brought them back down. It's funny when you're singing a song new people find something irreverently funny to the song, something which I usually miss (it's Joni, it's gotta be serious, a theme which I am changing slowly) and nice to find that little piece of new something ot a song. And the guitar intro is NOT folk, though the fingerpicking style in the main is. And as for the chords.... well.... Much Joni Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:59:58 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Fw: Joni & Folk Song > I'm certain the song is called 'Poor Wayfaring Stranger'. I think Joan Baez > sings a version but definitely in the folk idiom. I love Joni's rewrite and > it's wonderful song to sing. Let me tell you a little anecdote. > > I had to sing acapella in an audition once and this song come into my head > just before it was my turn. I cut a stanza out because it didn't suit the > timing but I sang > The good thing about it was, the musical director and the writer both came up to me after the audition to ask what song that was! I had a quick Joni plug of course! Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:27:51 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Jamie Zubairi wrote: > I'm certain the song is called 'Poor Wayfaring Stranger'. I think Joan Baez > sings a version but definitely in the folk idiom. I knew the verses of Joni's Silky Veils as "floating verses" in other songs. Somebody posted Joan Baez's version the last time around. I hadn't realized that they had been combined them into a single song. I think Joni mainly just added some "heightening words" to Baez's version, but very effectively. However, to clarify, there is also an entirely separate well-known song called "Poor Wayfaring Stranger" which shares its first verse with the first verse of Joni/Joan's song. (I assume Joni/Joan's song took the verse from the other version.) Is Joni's melody based on the tune Baez sings, or is it original? - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:28:50 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: re: Joni & Folk Song This is a traditional song but I had once heard she had written it for WTRF. NP-Phish-Farmhouse At 7:52 PM -0400 4/21/00, Brian Butterick wrote: >What about "A Bird That Whistles" from CMIARS? It IS the folk song " >Corrina, Corrina," after all. >--hat - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net Tape trading --> homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:43:45 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: joni tribute smoking - ----- Original Message ----- From: alan larson > > i too noticed joni smoking...one of the perks of being the honoree, i > suppose... LOL At about 30 minutes into the concert I said to my sister "This must be the longest she has ever gone without a cigarette" (I was kind of jonsing for one myself.) Then Joni lit one up. My sister said "Well, like, who is going to tell HER to put it out?" My sister is a math teacher in a NYC high school. We were pretty keyed up after the concert and went out for some drinks, then we went home to her house, still on a Joni high, played Blue and had a couple more. She went to work the next morning on maybe 2 hours of sleep, and said to her first class "Sorry if I'm a little slow today, I went to a concert last night, not something I usually do, and I stayed up kind of late." A student asked "What concert?" She said "Not anything you all would be interested in, it was a tribute to Joni Mitchell." A student replied "Joni Mitchell ROCKS!!!" Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:56:11 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song (NJC) Marcel wrote: > The songs they sang were in many cases real folk songs which is to say > songs that told stories about the times they were written in. [snip] > Many will argue that Rock is folk music but its back beat dominates > its theme. What I think could be argued is that rock/pop music (some of it, at least) now serves the social function that folk/traditional music served in earlier times -- i.e., uniting and defining a particular community (for example, the hip-hop community of which rap music is a part). The role of the oral tradition in folk music has obviously been drastically changed by the development of technology for reproducing and distributing recorded sound. > That is why folk music (music for the > common folk) is different. In folk music the message in the song is never > dominated by the desire to move ones loins and pursue someone for sex. You seem to be comparing two different things. Is folk music different from rock because it lacks a (rock) backbeat, as you say above, or because of "the message in the song" (which would presumably mean the lyrics)? I think that a folk music's relationship to and role in the culture that it comes from is a more important characteristic; I don't think it can be contained in the music itself cut off from context. In any case, though, there are in fact folk songs which could reasonably be described as being "dominated by the desire to move ones loins and pursue someone for sex." Why on earth wouldn't there be? There have always been folk songs about whatever was important in the lives of the people who sang the songs -- including work songs, political protest songs, good old tragic stories, songs associated with certain events (i.e., holidays or rituals) -- and of course more explicitly personal, emotional songs, including the "bawdy songs" that Rick mentioned. Really, does it make much sense that human interest in sex (for whatever purposes) would have just suddenly developed in the past 30-40 years? For example, the Vance Randolph collection in the Library of Congress, which includes "'Unprintable Songs and Other Folklore Materials from the Ozarks' -- four boxes of bawdy Ozark music, children's rhymes, riddles, graffiti, and sayings" (collected in the 1930s-'60s). The band Cordelia's Dad does a couple songs from this collection ("Knife," "Spencer Rifle") on one of their albums, and they sure are bawdy. Marcel wrote in response to Rick: > I guess that old bards tune "Charlotte the Harlot the Cowpunchers Whore" > is really an old "folk" song as Rick has set us all straight. Rick was correct, the origins of this "Cowpunchers Whore" song (whatever it is) notwithstanding. What's the matter, Marcel? Did Rick disturb your cherished illusion of the pure, chaste, noble "common folk"? - --David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:23:12 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song Hello David, nice to hear from you again I believe Joni uses the traditional (Baez's) melody for the words. The accompaniment is almost Joni's own. > However, to clarify, there is also an entirely separate well-known > song called "Poor Wayfaring Stranger" which shares its first verse with > the first verse of Joni/Joan's song. (I assume Joni/Joan's song took the > verse from the other version.) > > Is Joni's melody based on the tune Baez sings, or is it original? > > --David > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:34:52 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Silky Veils This is from a book called "Folk Songs USA" by John and Alan Lomax (with music arrangements by Charles and Ruth Seeger). They refer to this song as one of the most widespread in the Anglo-American tradition. Come All You Fair and Tender Ladies 1. Come all you fair and tender ladies, Be careful how you court young men, They're like a star of a summer's morning, They'll first appear and then they're gone. 2. They'll tell to you some loving story, They'll declare to you their love is true; Straightaway they'll go and court some other, And that's the love they have for you. 3. I wish I was some little sparrow, That I had wings, could fly so high; I'd fly away to my false true lover, And when he's talkin' I'd be by. 4. But I am not a little sparrow, And neither have I wings to fly; I'll sit down here in grief and sorrow To weep and pass my troubles by. 5. If I'd a-known before I courted, I never would have courted none; I'd have locked my heart in a box of golden, And pinned it up with a silver pin. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:34:36 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Return of the Muse (kind of long) (NJC) Kate wrote: >Sometimes the Muse does seem to vanish for a while. Without going into a long personal story, I can >tell you that the Muse does return. I think if you pick up your instrument and play on a regular basis, >the Muse returns. It did for me. It took a friend encouraging me to pick up my guitar and to write again, >to tell me that I had something to say and that it was good. I had let my muse go for several years >due to too much mundane life getting in the way. To this day I feel like my encouraging friend saved >my life, and as a result of his nudging, I went on to write better than ever and even to record my first >CD! There is something to be said about the daily discipline of doing it---that calls in the Muse and >gets your musical muscles back in gear. This is such true and wonderful advice. The muse may lay way dormant for years but it is always there waiting and can be re-activated. Inspiration helps greatly (The Artists Way book SueMac recommended is a fantastic book), daily practice definitely helps call up the muse and the sincere encouragement of friends works perhaps the greatest magic. I could relate so much to Bonne's post. I also was a singer-songwriter for about 10 years in another life but, for too many reasons, the door closed (although I can still occasionally write a clever Joni/JMDL parody ;-) And mundane life (curse it!), so often dulls the spark and flow. I have to say that my exposure to this list has done so much to re-inspire and re-connect me back to the heart of my muse. Also, one of my oldest and best list friends nudged me for two years to send him a tape of my music recorded years ago. I held off forever fearing his judgment but finally said what the hell and sent it off. His reaction was so wonderfully favorable and encouraging. His take on my music and singing enlightened me to aspects that had never occurred to me before. It thrilled me that he liked it and was such great validation. Another example of how just one person can make a difference and also how much this list has brought to my life. Bonne, you've come to the right place ;-) Kakki NP: Joni - Ladies of the Canyon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:14:20 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Jackalope Returns To JMDL in Another Form (NJC) From: mann@chicagonet.net Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 23:09:55 -0500 TO: Anyone who's been on this discussion list for more than a few years Doesn't this smell alot like Jackalope returning in another form called Jimmy??? (note the "J" in "J"ackalope & "J"immy) "The only way I could ever go to the Olympics is if I were hired to work in a hotdog stand." Laura :-} NP: We won't get fooled again ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:16:33 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song << what d o you think of the silky veils of ardour >> Hate to say this but I found the song in an old guitar song book and it was from I think 1890 sometime. I was really surprised that Joni gave no credit to its original creator or mention that it was an adapted form of the original. Joni's cover of the song is almost 99% of the original. Now that I posed it I am going to look thru all my books to find it and I will post all the info as I'm sure this will piss off some people unless I have the proof. Dave c ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:29:49 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: friends and joni << blinders on to Joni >> Dear Ann Landers My wife has blindres on to Joni Mitchells music. I thought she like her when we were dating but after the papers were signed and thering went on I realized she doesn't like Joni that much. Help Me in Phila. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:34:24 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: kd straight to hell njc << setitng her str8 >> It would take one hell of a man to set her str8, I don't care how poorly she dressed. I think she was trying to hide how fat she looks like she got. Man can she sing though. Dave c ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:44:42 -0400 (EDT) From: some millers Subject: hb2mingus happy birthday to the "musical mystic" mingus... and thanks to jm for bringing him so beautifully to my attention back in '79. buenas noches/dias- paul s. bethlehem, ny ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:18:05 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts Continuing Bonne and Sue's discussion......... When Katie said to Joni: “Obviously a big development in your life was when you reconnected with your daughter and your grandchild. How has that changed your life?” And Joni firmly answered that she didn't want to talk about Kilaurin and her family situation by stating “Well I’d rather not get into it." I thought to myself Whoa! Things aren't going very well with Killer. Joni then confirmed it by what she further said, "And like all families, it’s wrought with difficulties. You know it’s not all going to be clear sailing.” I can't help thinking that this is the BIGGEST part of Joni's REALLY feeling "not needed" or "uninspired", especially during a time when she's FINALLY getting more recognition and GOOD press then she has in YEARS!! I'll tell you why I think this way.... I have a friend who went thru a similar thing like Joni (got pregnant back when it was not accepted, gave up the baby, baby's father never knew,must search for the father, never had more children, etc etc)....in fact I told her about Joni because there stories were so very, very similar and now she's following Joni & Killaurin's story, even asking for that People magazine that came out a few issues back with the interview. Now years later, they found each other, the daughter who's about Kilaurin's age and had just had her own baby too. Anyway, my friend is a seemingly very independent, self-assured, strong personality..........this whole meeting with her daughter has brought her to her knees! The emotional ups and downs are a real rollercoaster ride and she's told me she doesn't think she could cope if she wasn't going to counseling and learning that other parents who find their adoptive children are going thru the same thing. She's been besides herself at times not knowing what to do and calling her therapist......... and then following his advice to wait, what's happening is "on schedule" with others who have gone thru the same thing.........things will blow over eventually, etc. etc. I've heard her talk about how when they first meet after all those years it's so hopful and wonderful. Then soon the questions com..............why this....why that.......you must not love me, you never loved me.........now you give me gifts....... you're trying to buy my love, you feel guilty, you don't feel guilty enough. I don't want to talk to you again. You can't see your grandchild. The daughter tells the mother NEVER to call her again. Then the mother, after waiting a couple of weeks, calls the daughter anyway and the daughter is so happy to hear from her and tells her she's been waiting by the phone for weeks hoping the mother would call even tho she told her not to call.......................always eggshells. Sounds like Joni & Kilaurin's relationship is similar. Volitile and ever changing. Not a settled ground yet. It's gotta be hard to have creative juices flowing at times like this............. Then on top of the emotional ride with Kilaurin.........I bet Myrtle is riding her over this........ maybe even telling Joni......."you made your bed.......you lie in it" kind of thing. Along with the moral issue and such. Bet Joni's getting it from all sides. Joni's gone for years without having any emotional ties or 'family' responsibilities. Her life was really her own.....she had time to indulge her creativity & perfect it. She's also admited to up and leaving relationships after a few years because they start getting 'uncomfortable'. Now, with Kilaurin, Joni can't seperate herself from this uncomfortableness. Can't just up and leave.....and find another daughter like she might find another lover. And then there's the surprize of her grandchildren. And the Love she feels for them.........some new feelings and emotions. These different emotions of Love, Happiness, Unhappiness, anger.............she's gotta be experiencing the complete circle of emotions now. Maybe feeling quite a bit like a punching bag. You get up from a punch that came straight at ya and down you go again from a side punch ya never saw coming. This emotional stuff can really take it's toll.......and age one. Joni also said: This is not a time for me, you know. It’s the shallowest most unromantic time. It’s not my time.” .........Hey, all us parents know how kids can kill the romantic mood! ha! ha! Joni's a new parent! Don't you think this is why she may be taking a break from writing her own songs? Known for one who writes about her feelings........she could get herself in some deep doo-doo by writing something she feels, but that offends/hurts Kilaurin's feelings.....and then it would be down in writing for it to always haunt the two of them and cause a deeper divide instead of closing over the gap. I think in order to be true to herself and protect what relationship she does have with her daughter and secure the growing relationship with her grandkids.........she's safer not writing down her feelings for the whole world to hear and dissect until she's out of the emotional tornado.....which could take years. It's probably a real good time for Joni to concentrate on her paintings. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:36:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Spyder8@webtv.net Subject: Joni's Artwork/Exhibition Am I right that Joni Mitchells artwork will be on a tour? WOW !... Does anyone know the schedule or itinerary? If anyone knows please do post the info or e-mail me , Thanks in advance!(I will enjoy her artwork almost as much as the music.!) Bon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 01:55:11 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Krall, Fitzgerald, Scofield Sweeps (NJC) Go to the FAB FUN FEST at: http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/contests/ 500 winners! Diana Krall Autographed Collectors Booklet John Scofield CD Samplers and Posters Ella Fitzgerald Something to Live For Videos A few of us has gotta win! Laura ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #208 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?