From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #164 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, March 31 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 164 Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund," with all donations going directly into the upkeep of the JoniMitchell.com website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds, and it will now be up to Jim to continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 USA ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "Gay" Identity -- NJC (was Kevin Spaceman) ["catman" ] Re: The old lady chain smoking ["Kakki" ] kazoo... ["P. Henry" ] Re: NJC ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #160 NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni on Brian Blade album [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: BSN Review from SonicNet NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: kazoo... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: kazoo... [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Elton's Jonispeak [Siresorrow@aol.com] My Contribution to Alan's project ... [Don Rowe ] Re: Elton's Jonispeak [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Elton's Jonispeak [Siresorrow@aol.com] BSN [Gerald Heibert ] Re: BSN [Jerry Notaro ] Folk DJs react to BSN [Steve Dulson ] New Article on Reprise Site [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: BSN [Catherine McKay ] Gay Identity--NJC ["H.D. Motyl" ] Re: Elton's Jonispeak [jan gyn ] Re: NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: BSN [catman ] Re: NJC [catman ] Tribute tickets (NJC) [TanyerSCO@aol.com] Re: NJC [catman ] Mary Chapin Carpenter too [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Madison Square Gardens YES [Catherine McKay ] Re: Hello Again my friends (vljc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: tribute selections [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:03:15 +0100 From: "catman" Subject: Re: "Gay" Identity -- NJC (was Kevin Spaceman) - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Marine To: Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 6:49 AM Subject: "Gay" Identity -- NJC (was Kevin Spaceman) > Hey List -- > > I had to jump in here. I won't comment on Spacey specifically, but > really why should a homosexual man be encouraged to identify himself as > "gay" if he doesn't wish to? While I respect the bravery and integrity > of the pioneers who risked their lives working toward a more enlightened > society, right now in the US the "gay community" leaves much to be > desired. Is it really necessary for people to label their sexuality at > all? And if it is, then might not the "gay community" need to re-define > itself? What is it to say that you are "gay" in the year 2000? That > you like Gucci, Absolut, electrolysis and GHB? That you want to have a > baby with Madonna? > Firstly, there is no such thing as agay community! There might be an area where there are many gay people but that is not worldwide nor the same thing. > I am well aware that the community has been decimated by a protracted > health crisis. But at this point IMO concepts of "gayness" are being > defined by corporate America and greedy hucksters within the > "community," reducing "gay" culture to its lowest common denominator. > > Perhaps we do still need to label ourselves in order to promote > understanding and insure the liberation of future generations. But no > one should have a label forced upon him/her. As long as Kevin Spacey or > anyone else is living his life with grace and dignity, IMO he has the > right to define himself in any way he chooses. True. However, one cannot be doing that and lying about oneself at the same time. It is not about labelling people-it is about being honest and not perpetuating a crime. bw colin > > David > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:52:35 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:- Hello Again my friends (vljc) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:57:52 +0100 From: "Hejira" Subject: Hello Again my friends (vljc) Hi !!!:):):):):):) Some of you may remember me and to all the new folks big hug live has been and still is very busy ,but I was just missing all the Joni vibe and have to get back to the list. Don't you just love the new CD wow that voice!! I also have a bit of Joni news that I really didn't want to hear but is interesting all the same. Her goes: A friend of mine Gary went to visit his ex in Brighton (England )recently and they went shopping and Gary picked up the new CD and Roy his Ex (who is not a Joni fan) said oh yeah I forgot to tell you I meet her a few weeks ago. It turns out that Roy now shares a house with the brother of some guy in the music biz who was having a dinner party and wanted the two of them to go: they did ,it was in some big country manor just outside Brighton Roy said there was about 10 or so people there most off them were in the pool billiards room most of the night but a few stayed in the kitchen talking. Roy stayed in the kitchen for a while chatting to an old women(his words) who chain smoked it wasn't until his friend said what where you talking to Joni about that he found out it was Joni Mitchell and even then he didn't care. Can you believe it Joni was in England hanging out and someone I know meet her and didn't care and it was at a little gathering wow the things we could have talked about.Anyway going on and on hope you like my bit of gossip.Anyone going to the The Mendel Art Gallery June 30. I am going to come over from Scotland and make it my holiday anyone meeting up? let me know What else is there to do? Love and big hug to all Kevin (HEJIRA) Hey, Kevin! It's great to have you back but that story has sent shivers down my spine. I'm on my way to Brighton right now and go there at least once a week. How did I MISS HER? You've got to let me know next time! I still play the tapes you sent me so Stay in touch, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:22:15 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Tribute Selections I like your picks, Phyliss. This show should be incredible. I wonder whether they will focus on her "hits", "misses" or a little of both. Here's my guesses and some preferences: Elton John - How Do You Stop; Two Grey Rooms James Taylor - Yvette in English; Barangrill, Woodstock k.d. lang - In France They Kiss on Main Street; Coyote; Wild Things Run Fast (actually k.d. could sing just about any of them well) Shawn Colvin - Amelia; Night Ride Home Diana Krall - Be Cool; Blue Motel Room, Moon at the Window Chaka Khan - Talk To Me; Shadows and Light; Harry's House Wyonna Judd - Help Me; You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio Richard Thompson - Fiddle and the Drum; Both Sides Now Bryan Adams - Free Man in Paris; Hejira Cassandra Wilson - Black Crow; Hissing of Summer Lawns Good luck to all trying to get tickets to the TNT show tomorrow - wahoo!! Kakki NP: Willie Bobo - It's Not Unusual ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:28:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The old lady chain smoking >Roy stayed in the kitchen for a while chatting to an old >women(his words) who chain smoked This is so awful and funny at the same time!! Thanks for the great story, Kevin, and welcome back. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:57:27 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: kazoo... bob, "1. Joni with kazoo accompaniment"... this one I've heard! in fact I've actually seen and heard our queen PLAY the kazoo as well on 'San Francisco Bay Blues' in duo with Chuck, circa 1966... ;o) (I'm sure Brian recalls that) pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:55:31 -0700 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: NJC boy, there sure are a lot of queer babes on this list. i love it. alison - ---------- >From: Don Rowe >To: "H.D. Motyl" >Subject: Re: NJC >Date: Thu, Mar 30, 2000, 12:04 PM > >Boy, there sure are a lot of babes on this list. > >I like it. > >Don Rowe > >===== >"I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of >the comfort of strangers." > -- Julia Fordham > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:02:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #160 NJC In a message dated 3/31/00 1:02:21 AM US Central Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << First time contributor to this group, long time fan of Joni, since 1967. I have seen her at various venues, in the Philly area and I am looking forward to seeing her at the E-Centre in June. I have tix in the third row in the pit! I would be interested in meeting other fans of Joni, in the area. >> Greetings, & welcome to the group! There's certainly a lot of Joni stuff going on to discuss - looking forward to your contribution... Bob NP(Now Playing): Ani DiFranco, "Wish I May" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:07:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Brian Blade album In a message dated 3/31/00 12:25:16 AM US Central Standard Time, CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << I heard on our public radio station here in Los Angeles that Brian Blade's new album has a vocal by Joni. Anyone heard this CD yet? He's an amazing drummer. >> Clark, this tune has been reported on, Kakki talked about it a week or so ago. The name of the song is "Steadfast", I'm dying to hear it so as it's payday I'll be picking it up myself this weekend! PS - I'll be heading off to Columbia SC til Saturday night but I'll catch up on Sunday... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:08:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Review from SonicNet NJC In a message dated 3/30/00 8:45:55 PM US Central Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: << 7. Joni Mitchell sings AC/DC. >> Call it "Givin' the Dog Eat Dog A Bone" (for all my fellow AC/DC fans out there!):~) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:11:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: kazoo... In a message dated 3/31/00 3:58:30 AM US Central Standard Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << this one I've heard! in fact I've actually seen and heard our queen PLAY the kazoo as well on 'San Francisco Bay Blues' in duo with Chuck, circa 1966... ;o) (I'm sure Brian recalls that) >> Very cool, Pat - get me a copy of that, willya? :~) AND she also features a kazoo on the version of 'Dreamland' on the Hissing Demos. I'll always treasure the kazoo I got at Jonifest 99, although I think we got 'em after we already did our tortured rendition on Ashara's stage... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:34:37 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: kazoo... Bob (who's gone til Sunday so let's flood him with emails :-) ) writes: << I'll always treasure the kazoo I got at Jonifest 99, although I think we got 'em after we already did our tortured rendition on Ashara's stage... >> I guess the kazoo bit won't happen at Jonifest2000 in N.O. with so many extremely talented musicians performing. Rats, cause I was hoping it would happen again since the kazoo is the only instrument I can play :-( Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:22:14 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Elton's Jonispeak In a message dated 3/31/00 2:24:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, pward@lightspeed.net writes: << Maybe Jonispeak on the music industry is a trend. It wouldn't be the first one she's started... ; - } I've never heard of Elton being a Joni fan before. >> i just read an elton article yesterday at the dentist. i think it may have been in people. he specifically mentioned joni mitchell in that article in the context of aging. the line was something like.....why can't mick jagger still sing songs or eric clapton or bruce springsteen...why can't joni mitchell keep putting out good work just because she is over 50.. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:26:24 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: My Contribution to Alan's project ... Alan asked that I forward this to the list -- I wrote it for the interactive creative writing project he's working on. Don Rowe A Portrait of Ghosts and History -- Joni Mitchell's "Furry Sings The Blues" Effective writing of any sort, be it poetry, prose -- or in this case -- the lyrics of a song, treats a reader's imagination in much the same way a painter approaches a blank canvas. Pure imagination is a clear field for the writer to fill with vibrant and colorful images. That Joni Mitchell is herself a painter is evident from the opening lines of her song "Furry Sings The Blues." Old Beale Street is coming down Sweeties' Snack Bar, boarded up now And Egles The Tailor and the Shine Boy's gone Faded out with ragtime blues Handy's cast in bronze And he's standing in a little park With a trumpet in his hand Like he's listening back to the good old bands And the click of high heeled shoes The first 9 lines let you as a reader, even if you've never heard the song before, know exactly where you are. With an almost photographic clarity, the writing creates an image of a world once alive -- but no more. Notice particularly the way in which Mitchell creates the statue of W.C. Handy -- instead of approaching the monument like a tour guide ... "And here is Memphis' famous W.C. Handy, Father of the Blues. The bronze statue is the work of so-and-so, standing over 12 feet tall ..." etc. etc. Mitchell uses a subtle personification, creating the impression that the statue is rather, the bronzed ghost of the famous man -- whose spirit is still present in the little park. This device is used with remarkable consistency throughout the piece -- to describe pawn shops: Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps In the grey decay They chew the last few dollars off old Beale Street's carcass And later on, a decaying movie theater: There's a double bill murder at the New Daisy The old girl's silent across the street She's silent - waiting for the wrecker's beat Silent - staring ar her stolen name Into this vivid landscape Mitchell introduces a host of characters, living and dead -- with the song's title character at it's center. The overall effect is very alive -- gracefully overcoming the surface impression of shabbiness. The finished portrait of words is, in the end, every bit as effective as one painted with any brush. ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:29:26 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Elton's Jonispeak Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/31/00 2:24:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, > pward@lightspeed.net writes: > > << Maybe Jonispeak on the music industry is > a trend. It wouldn't be the first one she's started... ; - } > > I've never heard of Elton being a Joni fan before. >> > > i just read an elton article yesterday at the dentist. i think it may have > been in people. he specifically mentioned joni mitchell in that article in > the context of aging. the line was something like.....why can't mick jagger > still sing songs or eric clapton or bruce springsteen...why can't joni > mitchell keep putting out good work just because she is over 50.. To clarify, he didn't mean to imply that theses artists don't, but that people think they can't because they are over 50. Jerry, Born in '50, soon to be ........ np: Annie Lennox - Take Me to the River ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:23:24 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Elton's Jonispeak In a message dated 3/31/00 9:30:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << he didn't mean to imply that theses artists don't, but that people think they can't because they are over 50. >> this is exactly right. in fact, in hind sight he might have said something more like...why shouldn't they be able to ....as opposed to what i wrote,...why can't they... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:36:06 -0800 From: Gerald Heibert Subject: BSN I just discovered this discussion list, and, being a HUGE Joni fan for the past 30 years, I'm delighted to read your comments and stories. I'm just a bit puzzled why people would be writing in to discuss Kevin Spacey's sexuality and that kind of stuff (I thought Joni was the focus!). Anyway, the new BSN CD has given me a whole new perspective on her work. The orchestra is so beautifully recorded, and comparing A Case of You to the Blue version gives us a poignant perspective of the passage of time, and how we've all grown up together. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:09:54 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BSN Gerald Heibert wrote: > I just discovered this discussion list, and, being a HUGE Joni fan for > the past 30 years, I'm delighted to read your comments and stories. > > I'm just a bit puzzled why people would be writing in to discuss Kevin > Spacey's sexuality and that kind of stuff (I thought Joni was the > focus!). Many issues come up from time to time, especially on such a large, active list such as this. And we all know how creative and intelligent Joni fans are! If you notice, those messages which are not Joni focused are marked NJC. You can subscribe to this list as Joni only, or to include the NJC (No Joni Content.) Or you can just delete all the NJC if it happens to be a busy day. The great thing is there is a choice. Jerry np: Jimmy Webb - Suspending Disbelief ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:13:12 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Folk DJs react to BSN These comments were posted on the FOLKDJ list. I've kept them anonymous (except one) because I havn't asked permission to re-post them. DJ 1: Joni Mitchell/ Both Sides Now/ Reprise I didn't much like this album, but let the listeners vote on whether to leave it on or take it off. Votes divided about 50-50, but more said to leave it on (in the spirit of openness) so I played it through. My feeling is that I didn't like that kind of big string-backed ballad in the 50s and I don't like them now. Feels like they're an example of an artist using their power to command something expensive -- "Make It So" -- without really listening to the result. Makes me feel as if J.M. Has become so self-centered and self-absorbed that she can't see around that. Or maybe [dare one say] it just don't belong on a "folk" program. But, then, nobody else is playing this old "easy listening" kind of stuff, either. Just give me a scotch and a cigarette, hon. DJ 2: Regarding Joni Mtchell's latest CD: I think that I can safely say that Joni did listen to the album as it was being produced, and to the final production. Perhaps she wasn't interested in making a folk CD this time around. Perhaps she wanted to stretch and take a risk. Also, sidemen Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock are certainly not easy-listening in the vernacular meaning of the term DJ 3: i actually found her version of 'both sides now' to be the best song on the cd. the original recording and lyrics are kind of hippie-dippy (not dissin the hippies either). this new recording makes the song poignant, her raspy rendition lends credence to the reflection inherent and the arrangements make me believe there is real meaning there. i really like it, but i probably wouldn't play it on any strident 'folk' program. i think even the rest of the cd is a cut above, say june tabor's, sinead o'connors, linda ronstadt, blahblah attempts at standards. i think she is a much more credible interpreter. DJ 4: (OK, it's obviously Gene Shay) In 1967 three days after she wrote , "Both Sides Now" she sang in on my folk show on WHAT-FM (those call letters were changed to WWDB years later). That's the first time the song was ever heard on the radio. Joni told me she had just written it at her friend Joy Flebbin's apartment in Philadelphia and that the song was inspired by a passage she read in the Saul Bellow's novel, HendersonThe Rain King. For a while, at the suggestion of Dave VanRonk, Joni called the song Clouds and Dave recorded it under that title. DJ 5: Joni does jazz, and finishes off this jazzy set. I'm really liking what little I've heard of the new Joni, no matter how much she may not be folk. Hey, we all gotta grow sometimes. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:53:46 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: New Article on Reprise Site Hi Y'all! New article on repriserec.com. Click BSN album pic, then "enter." Here's the full text for those without net access. Conceptually breathtaking, brilliantly realized, lovingly crafted by an artist of consummate intelligence and unerring instincts, Both Sides Now is among the most surprising and fulfilling albums in Joni Mitchell's altogether surprising and fulfilling career. A collection of twelve classic love songs, including a new rendition of the title track - the artist's own enduring contribution to the canon - Both Sides Now puts Mitchell's inimitable stamp on material culled from some of the best songwriters of our time, working in one of the most fertile genres in the American musical idiom - the torch song. Included are exquisite new versions of "Stormy Weather," "You're My Thrill," "I Wish I Were In Love Again," "You've Changed," "Comes Love" and seven other meticulously selected tracks, including a reworking of "A Case Of You," Mitchell's own aching paean to love and loss from 1972's Blue. . Both Sides Now was produced by Joni Mitchell and longtime creative collaborator Larry Klein, who also served as the album's Musical Director. Arranged and conducted by Grammy-nominated Vince Mendoza (known for his work with Bjork, Pat Metheny, Chaka Khan and many others), with a contribution by the great Gordon Jenkins, these twelve selections spotlight Mitchell's rich, emotionally resonant range in a full orchestral setting, courtesy of the 71-piece London Symphony Orchestra. Guest soloists include another of Mitchell's longtime musical co-conspirators, saxophone master Wayne Shorter, as well as Herbie Hancock on piano and trumpeter Mark Isham. . For all its traditional trappings, Both Sides Now is hardly a collection of revamped chestnuts. Among the many creative and conceptual levels on which the album functions, the song sequence itself traces the arc of a modern love affair. "I've always used my albums as a way to tell a story, to take the listener on a trip," explains the artist. "I wanted this one to develop sequentially, with a beginning, a middle and an end, telling the story of what two people in love take each other through. . "I started where every love affair starts," the legendary songwriter and performer continues. "When you're smitten, which, of course, is what 'You're My Thrill' expresses so beautifully. Then comes the celebration, when you thank your lucky stars, which is the sentiment of 'At Last.' Then there's a bit of whimsical philosophy with 'Comes Love,' expressing the sheer hopelessness of the condition, which also has a kind of prophetic cast to it, like the dark fairy showing up at the birthday party." . And, sure enough, the next track on Both Sides Now is a gorgeous rendering of "You've Changed," which, for the artist, expresses "the seeds of change." "We've all been there," she says, "that moment when we realize the person we love is not the angel we once knew, that, already, so soon into the relationship, things have begun to decline. Then comes 'Answer Me, My Love,' which expresses the same thing musically, in chords that are neither major nor minor. It was one of my favorite songs when I was a teenager, a Nat King Cole classic and it asks a very simple question: What do I do now?". It was the same question Mitchell asked of herself as she reached this critical point in the song cycle she was assembling. "What happens next is a lot of variable perspectives," she explains. "To me, the most interesting part of a relationship is what goes on after the blush is off the rose. 'A Case Of You,' 'Don't Go To Strangers,' 'Sometimes I'm Happy,' 'Don't Worry 'Bout Me,' these are songs that approach love from an adult point of view, a realistic appraisal. But for all of those rationales, there's still the ache in your heart, which is what 'Stormy Weather' sums up better than any song I know. Then, finally, we reach a true equilibrium. For all the pain and disillusionment, we still can't do without it. 'I Wish I Were In Love Again' reiterates that idea and provides a kind of comic relief after the journey.". Mitchell closes her song cycle with "Both Sides Now." "I wrote it when I was 21 and was really steeped in the classics of the genre," she explains. "So it seemed to fit. It's a philosophical statement that brings the concept of this album full circle.". The remarkable structure of Both Sides Now is underscored by what is undoubtedly one of the most resonant and nuanced vocal performances of Joni Mitchell's career. "Singing my own material, I often worked on not being a showy singer," she explains. "The point was to deliver the text with emotional honesty and because of the density of the lyrics there was no room for embellishing. But this music allows the voice to string out like a fishing line and ride the curves like a surfer. And when you're singing with an orchestra and all that brass swells up, you've got no choice but to let it carry you, to sing louder and brighter and do things you maybe never did before. Most pop music is very compressed and even, but when you're out there in front of all those instruments and you hear that huge sound coming at you, it's a thrilling, Big Kahuna moment." . In preparation for recording Both Sides Now, Mitchell drew down deep her enormous reserve of musical inspiration. "We looked to Duke Ellington," she recounts, "and we looked to the late romantics who were a major influence on the filmmakers of the '40s and, of course, Nina Rota, who kept that whole tradition of cinematic romance alive. And, when I was in Toronto, putting the tunestack together, I took to frequenting a bistro near my home that played mostly women singers of the era - Ella and Billie and Blossom Dearie - and it was there that I formulated what I would do and how I would do it.". What Joni Mitchell has done on Both Sides Now is both a tribute to the enduring power of great songs and a testament to her singular ability to make every note and each word her own. "This record is good for you," she asserts with characteristic aplomb. "It's transforming. Most people will cry a really good cry, which is hard to get off a record these days. It allows you to create a setting for a personal response, based on your own life and experience. It's a gift." :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:03:51 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: BSN Hey, Gerald - welcome to the list. So, you thought it was a Joni Mitchell discussion list? Wrong-oh! This is a list where anything and everything can be and IS discussed, sometimes ad nauseum. This is the only list I'm on (and it's probably a good thing) - however, I have been told by others who are on various lists, that this is the most loquacious group of all. It is probably indicative of the nature of Joni fans. As possible explanation or description of the group, all I can offer further to this is a few words of the lady herself: "Be prepared to bleed." "I talk too much - I talk too open and free." "All the people at this party, they've got a lot of style" (or maybe that should be "lots of styles".) Welcome to mayhem - I hope you enjoy your stay. P.S. Enjoyed and so much agreed with your closing comments on a comparitive view of "A case of you" - from Blue to BSN. - --- Gerald Heibert wrote: > I just discovered this discussion list, and, being a > HUGE Joni fan for > the past 30 years, I'm delighted to read your > comments and stories. > > I'm just a bit puzzled why people would be writing > in to discuss Kevin > Spacey's sexuality and that kind of stuff (I thought > Joni was the > focus!). > > Anyway, the new BSN CD has given me a whole new > perspective on her > work. The orchestra is so beautifully recorded, and > comparing A Case of > You to the Blue version gives us a poignant > perspective of the passage > of time, and how we've all grown up together. > > ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:11:23 -0600 From: "H.D. Motyl" Subject: Gay Identity--NJC >From: davidpaulmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) >Subject: "Gay" Identity -- NJC (was Kevin Spaceman) >Hey List -- >I had to jump in here. I won't comment on Spacey specifically, >but really why should a homosexual man be encouraged to identify >himself as "gay" if he doesn't wish to? While I respect the >bravery and integrity of the pioneers who risked their lives >working toward a more enlightened society, right now in the US the >"gay community" leaves much to be desired. Is it really necessary >for people to label their sexuality at all? And if it is, then >might not the "gay community" need to re-define itself? What is >it to say that you are "gay" in the year 2000? That you like >Gucci, Absolut, electrolysis and GHB? That you want to have a >baby with Madonna? >I am well aware that the community has been decimated by a >protracted health crisis. But at this point IMO concepts of >"gayness" are being defined by corporate America and greedy >hucksters within the "community," reducing "gay" culture to its >lowest common denominator. >Perhaps we do still need to label ourselves in order to promote >understanding and insure the liberation of future generations. >But no one should have a label forced upon him/her. As long as >Kevin Spacey or anyone else is living his life with grace and >dignity, IMO he has the right to define himself in any way he >chooses. >David Dear David: Thank you for trying to create a new stereotype. do you really believe that all gay men love Gucci, Absolut, Electrolysis, and GHB? Hey, here's a clue, David, I'm a gay man, have been out since I was 19, which was a while ago, and guess what--I don't go to the gym often enough, I don't shave or trim any of my body hair, let alone get electrolysis (and, in fact, I don't know any of my many gay friends who do), and I don't drink and, hold on to your hat, I don't even know what GHB is. And I don't want to have a baby, let alone a baby with Madonna--I don't think you should take literally what Rupert Everett says--he doesn't necessarily represent the thinking of the entire gay community. (Although we salute and support wholeheartedly his being out. Did we think any less of his performance as a straight man in An Ideal Husband becuz we know he is gay? I don't think so.) To reduce the gay community to these terms is wrong. And myopic. If we have economic clout, then why not use it--isn't this what has been happening in general society forever? I just saw an ad in a trade magazine that focussed on the viewers of Telemundo and who they are--and that ad was directed toward potential advertisers. Is that wrong? We live in a capitalist society and to fault the gay community for getting a piece of the corporate pie in sponsoring gay events--like a pride parade, or a Human Rights Campaign Fund dinner, or a benefit for an AIDS/HIV hospice, or the Gay Games--is not fair. (Do you know the reasons why the Gay Games are called that? And not their original name, the Gay Olympics? A bit of a discrimination thing.) Do you actually *know* any gay people? I will not deny that there is a part of the gay community that does frequent bars/discos, that do shave their bodies, that do go to the gym a little too much (I called this trend "the Cult of the Body" long before anyone else did), and I was scratching my head about an electrolysis ad I saw in a gay rag just last night. But, guess what, just like there are different kinds of people in the straight world, there are different kinds of people in the gay world. The point of the whole conversation we were having earlier is duplicitinous and how that can be hurtful--politically and personally--to the rest of the gay community. We create communities, David, we just do. People feel comfortable with their own kind--maybe, in fact, they feel safer. That's why there are Italian neighborhoods, Jewish neighborhoods, even gay neighborhoods. It's why blacks will drift toward other blacks in a strange situation, because they maybe feel safer, that they can relate. I question if someone, anyone is "living his life with grace and dignity" when they are not truthful about a huge part of their lives. (And can we just face it, sexuality is a big part of our lives.) And, finally, I will say this again: If Kevin Spacey (let's just assume here that he is gay--even though we are pretty damn sure he is--the anecdotal evidence speaks for itself) doesn't want to come out, that's fine with me. My problem is, and this was the first sentence in the original post, is his vehement denial. He did, in fact, say he was heterosexual. I would rather he just not address it, rather than deny it. His publicists could handle that when laying down the ground rules when he does an interview--this happens all the time, and has been happening in Hollywood since the studio system. (He even plays with it--a couple of years ago there was an article in Esquire, I believe, that was titled soemthing like Kevin Spacey Tells All about . . . ). It's not fair to the rest of us who try to live with honor and dignity--and truth--in our lives. Howard M PS Why is Ricky Martin more intriguing if we don't know if he is gay or not? In that post, I felt a subtext of don't ask, don't tell--"I don't care what you people do in your own bedrooms, just don't bring it into my living rooms." The point of all of this is--it shouldn't matter whether someone is gay or not and no one is saying that louder than we gays. Ricky Martin should be intriguing becuz he is a good singer/entertainer, a good person, a fine friend--all those things and oh, yeah, he happens to be gay. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:07:06 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Elton's Jonispeak (snip) >I've never heard of Elton being a Joni fan before. What song do you >think he'll pick for the tribute? I can hear him singing For Free. >Phyliss, up late, can't sleep, long story... I hope it's "Pat's Solo" . - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:23:48 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC All right, Donny - who you calling a "babe"? ;) - --- Don Rowe wrote: > Boy, there sure are a lot of babes on this list. > > I like it. > > Don Rowe ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:27:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC How about baby queers, while we're at it? My mother used to use the word "queer" to describe someone who was a bit odd. How things have changed! ;-] - --- Alison Einerson wrote: > boy, there sure are a lot of queer babes on this > list. > i love it. > > alison > > ---------- > >From: Don Rowe > >To: "H.D. Motyl" > >Subject: Re: NJC > >Date: Thu, Mar 30, 2000, 12:04 PM > > > > >Boy, there sure are a lot of babes on this list. > > > >I like it. > > > >Don Rowe > > > >===== > >"I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, > and to stop dreaming of > >the comfort of strangers." > > -- Julia Fordham > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://im.yahoo.com > ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:38:35 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: BSN Hi Gerald-there are two Joni lists-one is for those who prefer to read only the Joni Content and is called Only Joni. The Joni List includes anything as well as Joni Content. NJC(No Joni Content) is put in the subject of non Joni posts so that they do not go to the Only Joni People. welcome to the list bw colin Gerald Heibert wrote: > > I just discovered this discussion list, and, being a HUGE Joni fan for > the past 30 years, I'm delighted to read your comments and stories. > > I'm just a bit puzzled why people would be writing in to discuss Kevin > Spacey's sexuality and that kind of stuff (I thought Joni was the > focus!). > > Anyway, the new BSN CD has given me a whole new perspective on her > work. The orchestra is so beautifully recorded, and comparing A Case of > You to the Blue version gives us a poignant perspective of the passage > of time, and how we've all grown up together. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:48:13 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC I thought he was referring to me but I let it go..... Catherine McKay wrote: > All right, Donny - who you calling a "babe"? > > ;) > > --- Don Rowe wrote: > > Boy, there sure are a lot of babes on this list. > > > > I like it. > > > > Don Rowe > > ===== > Catherine (in Toronto) > catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:48:54 EST From: TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Tribute tickets (NJC) I got my ticket to the tribute concert! I had so much anxiety leading up to getting this ticket - I was so relieved!!!!!! Anyone else going? Where are your seats? So excited, Tanya ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:50:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC of course there are baby queers! Where do you think adult queers come from?-) People regularly use the word queer as you describe-tho they tend to be older or from the north. Catherine McKay wrote: > How about baby queers, while we're at it? My mother > used to use the word "queer" to describe someone who > was a bit odd. How things have changed! > > ;-] > > --- Alison Einerson wrote: > > boy, there sure are a lot of queer babes on this > > list. > > i love it. > > > > alison > > > > ---------- > > >From: Don Rowe > > >To: "H.D. Motyl" > > >Subject: Re: NJC > > >Date: Thu, Mar 30, 2000, 12:04 PM > > > > > > > >Boy, there sure are a lot of babes on this list. > > > > > >I like it. > > > > > >Don Rowe > > > > > >===== > > >"I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, > > and to stop dreaming of > > >the comfort of strangers." > > > -- Julia Fordham > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > > >http://im.yahoo.com > > > > ===== > Catherine (in Toronto) > catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:54:23 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Mary Chapin Carpenter too As we're speculating on who's going to cover what, add Mary Chapin Carpenter to the mix at the tribute. This from Reuter's Entertainment: In early April, Carpenter will be in New York City to make a special guest appearance on Trisha Yearwood's A & E (Arts & Entertainment Channel) ``Live By Request´´ television special (airs live on April 1st, check local listings for time). While in the Big Apple, Carpenter will also join an all-star cast including James Taylor, Elton John, Shawn Colvin and k d. Lang in ``An All Star Tribute to Joni Mitchell.´´ The TNT Network television tribute will be broadcast on April 16th at 9pm (EST/PST) Penny, who's wishing web surfing were good physical exercise. ;-) NP Court and Spark, trying to picture Elton doing that at the tribute. ;-) Love came to my door With a sleeping roll And a madman across the water He thought for sure I'd seen him Dancing up the river in the dark Looking for an Elton To court and spark :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:53:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Madison Square Gardens YES - --- Louis Lynch wrote: > Hi all, > > Funny thing. I fell off the list for the entire > month of March. With 47 > musical shows and a full-time job, I don't have any > space this month for > anything. I was wondering where you were - I thought maybe the non-smoking had driven you right over the edge and you'd ended up getting yourself incarcerated or something! >I found out my job > as a singing cowboy at > the rodeo is covered by the contract I signed a few > years ago -- this is the > last year of the contract, not a renewal year. Yikes! Next time you will read the fine print, won't you? > Also, I broke my record. On St. Patrick's Day, come > the fifth and final > gig, this Irish harpist had a minor incident > involving twelve or thirteen > beers and ended up smoking a few cigarettes! Blame > it on the Guinness, me > lads! That's OK - you have to quit quite a few times before you *really* quit. > After a four week absence from the list, though, it > seems that the same old > age-old debate about gay sensitivity is still going > on and on, this time > about Kevin Spacey of all people. Really, does it > matter? You know, I have > never once questioned nor cared whether anyone else > prefers boys or girls, > oral or whatever, missionary or trapezes. Why > should someone's sex life be > fodder for public conversation I agree. Who someone is sleeping with is their business. Do we really need to hear the details of anyone's sex lives, whether it's who Joni was having an affair with when she wrote song-X, or whether or not Kevin Spacey (or anyone else) is hetero-, homo-, bi- or even a-sexual? I can appreciate the fact that some gays may feel the need to have public figures identify themselves in public as being gay because there IS discrimination. Maybe I'm being somewhat naive (or maybe it's because I live in a large city where there is tremendous diversity and, while there are cases of gay-bashing, as there are of racist attacks, by-and-large the population in a large diversified city is much more accepting perhaps than they would be in a small town where everyone comes from the same basic gene pool); however,as with most things that create controversy (and here I must pause to ask the rhetorical question: why does anyone's sexual orientation even *need* to be controversial? IMO, it is what it is; it isn't a matter of choosing to be one way or the other; after which, another pause to catch my breath), there are probably a small percentage of people who are radically against [you-name-it], an equal number who are radically pro, but a greater percentage than those 2 combined who are in the middle, whose attitude is largely live-and-let-live. You can never win any kind of political battle by trying to convince the radical antis to be on your side - what you want to do is convince those in the middle that you're just as OK as anyone else is. IMO the best way to do that is to be who you are - if that means, you're a quiet person who happens to be gay, or a raging queen, that's who you are. On the other hand, I've never been attacked physically or verbally over sexual orientation, so what would I know? On the other hand (I guess I've moved on to feet by now!), I'm a woman, so I've had a case or two of people making unwanted moves on me, and I don't like that either. The odds of being attacked physically or sexually are greater if you're a woman than they are if you're a man, largely because women are usually smaller than men. Ultimately, those who attack others are usually cowards who feel the need to establish dominance over others to make themselves feel bigger and better - the bully from the schoolyard grows bigger, but not up. As usual, my diatribe draws to an end and I have no idea what I was talking about, so I'll just say TTFN. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: cd - --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > Depending on how things go with this first volume, > I'm hoping to parlay this > into a continuing series: Songs of My Youth Vol. 2, > 3, etc., some solo and > maybe some ensemble. You could continue with Songs of my middle age; Songs of my old age and so on - it looks like you are on a roll! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:03:50 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hello Again my friends (vljc) - --- Hejira wrote: "Roy stayed in the kitchen for a while chatting to an old women(his words) who chain smoked it wasn't until his friend said what where you talking to Joni about that he found out it was Joni Mitchell and even then he didn't care. Can you believe it Joni was in England hanging out and someone I know meet her and didn't care and it was at a little gathering wow the things we could have talked about." Youth is wasted on the young - Joni is wasted on the Philistine. I would like to think you were having us all on, but I suspect you're not. Oh, . I guess Roy doesn't even remember what they were talking about - I imagine Joni could talk about everything and anything. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:06:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hello Again my friends (vljc) - --- catman wrote: What a pity it wasn't a fan. Still it might have better for Joni that it wasn't! You're probably right. If it were me, I'd probably have been reduced to slavering idiocy - not a pretty sight. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:27:14 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Well, my mother WAS older, and she was from north of somewhere! I did set her *straight* on that of course (so to speak!) - --- catman wrote: > of course there are baby queers! Where do you think > adult queers come > from?-) > > People regularly use the word queer as you > describe-tho they tend to be > older or from the north. > > Catherine McKay wrote: > > > How about baby queers, while we're at it? My > mother > > used to use the word "queer" to describe someone > who > > was a bit odd. How things have changed! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:51:12 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: tribute selections - --- Phyliss Ward wrote: > Anyone care to take a gander at what selections the > tributees will make > for the upcoming special? Elton John---Raised on Robbery Diana Krall---Moon at the Window; Be Cool Who is Wynona? Is that Wynona Judd? Is she a country singer? If so,.... "You turn me on, I'm a radio" seems a tad too obvious, but then, one can't expect much innovation in today's music industry. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #164 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?