From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #161 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, March 30 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 161 Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund," with all donations going directly into the upkeep of the JoniMitchell.com website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds, and it will now be up to Jim to continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 USA ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Oscar songs (NJC) (md) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Kevin Spaceman NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: BSN Review from SonicNet ["Mark or Travis" ] More on Amer Beauty/Eng Patient NJC ["H.D. Motyl" ] 2 items [mr_lovesaint@webtv.net] American Beauty (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: More on American Beauty (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Tickets to Joni's CT concert [Bounced Message ] Re: Covers Project ["Kakki" ] BSN debuts on Billboard's album chart [Jason Long ] Away for a few days NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Kevin Spaceman NJC ["H.D. Motyl" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:41:41 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Oscar songs (NJC) (md) > (snip) > >tallent in a sea of ambition". Marcels opinion of Madonnas music, "High tech > >Yoko Ono imitating a mouse singing on key looking great in a teddy and a > >tight sweater". > > I like Bette Midler's comment: "The only way Madonna is like the real > Madonna is that they were both born in a barn." > -jan > > Maybe Bette said this but on her 'Mud Will Be Flung Tonight' album she said: 'The only thing that girl will ever do like a virgin is have a baby in a stable. By an unknown father!' Bette said it, I didn't! :-) Mark in Seattle wondering why his reply to Clark's first American Beauty post never showed up on the list?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:43:35 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Kevin Spaceman NJC > And then I thought, ohmygod, maybe this means that Russell Crowe is gay, > too and his hand holding was his way of deflecting, too. (I don't > really believe that he is gay, but it was nice to think about for a > bit.) Nice indeed! (sigh) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:46:55 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: BSN Review from SonicNet > While I don't totally agree with this writer, can you imagine how sweet it > would be to hear some of these with a simple jazz trio or quartet? Piano, > Drums, Sax, Bass? > Or even Joni singing with somebody else on a Steinway...awesome! > > Bob BSN is beautiful but I have to say I agree with Bob on this one. A small jazz ensemble would be sublime for Joni & a bunch of standards, imo. Kinda like Billies early 30's stuff and also the Verve recordings of the 50's.... Now make a note of this, Bob. I'm *agreeing* with you! ;-) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:50:47 -0600 From: "H.D. Motyl" Subject: More on Amer Beauty/Eng Patient NJC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------3BEFC3EF5E818C9EEF16BEAC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don't get me started on how beautiful and wonderful The English Patient is. (I almost included it on my list of best films of the past 20 years but knew I would get hell. And I don't know if I really believe that it is that good.) And for Amer Beauty. I was not overwhelmed. I agree with the someone who was left with nothing when the movie was over. Beautiful filmmaking but what for? The one thing I thought that was interesting about my reaction while watching the film was how angry I became when the Marine visits Lester at the end. (I'm trying not to give anything away.) I was angry becuz it seemed to be the cliche of the repressed killer. (Okay, to make this argument, I have to give some things away. Stop reading, dear reader, if you don't want to know anything else.) The repressed gay killer. But I think it did an interesting thing, it blamed society (not the Marine) for the death of Lester, because of society's homophobia. And I was happy for that. But that wasn't enough. I found the movie cold and distant. Beautiful images. Some interesting words. Interesting twists. But in the end, all I could say was, yeah, it was good. (The Insider, on the other hand, wow! I have never seen loneliness depicted on the screen like that, if I have ever seen it at all. It was almost palpable. Russell Crowe's performance was so amazing, it felt like he was sucking the life out of me. And the cinematography. Oy. Unbelievable.) Oh, I've gone off track. The English Patient? I was still crying when the lights came up. Both times. Brilliant. But I beg you, don't start to tear that film apart. Let's move on. Howard M NP: The World, NPR - --------------3BEFC3EF5E818C9EEF16BEAC Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for H.D. Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPTV Worldwide adr:;;400 North May Street, Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622; version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note;quoted-printable:"Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something for someone coming behind you and you don't,=0D=0Ayou are wasting your time on this earth."=0D=0A Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------3BEFC3EF5E818C9EEF16BEAC-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:53:35 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: BSN Review from SonicNet SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: can you imagine how sweet it would be to hear some of these with a simple jazz trio or quartet? Piano, > Drums, Sax, Bass? > Or even Joni singing with somebody else on a Steinway...awesome! > > Bob She did this at the 1980 Bread and Roses benefit in Berkeley, for one song, Sweet Sucker Dance, a duet with Herbie Hancock on piano. It was awesome, more powerful, IMO, than anything on BSN....though I am looking forward to hearing this stuff live.... RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:38:31 -0500 (EST) From: mr_lovesaint@webtv.net Subject: 2 items 1 ). when the heck are atlanta tix on sale???? did i already miss it?? 2 ). i had the pleasure of seeing our friend Victor ( waytoblue ) perform last week . it was on one of the best stages for live music in Atlanta : eddies attic . the sound system they have there is wonderful .  well, i got there late and after taking a bathroom break and receiving my sunflower photo ( a doorprize from victor ) , i got to see my first fellow jmdl'er . now let me tell you victor is one cool cat. i could tell when i saw him that he was a really nice guy. and he's got some wonderful . i can remember really listening to the words and then getting lost because of his rich voice bouncing off wood floors . we didn't get to talk much but im sure we will ( maybe at the show ) . if any of you get a chance to see victor play , i say DO IT. i had a great time victor. hope to see you again soon, pal. JESS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:55:44 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: American Beauty (NJC) Clark, I must say your defense of AB has been brilliant. You should have been writing all the press on this movie! I went to it really, really wanting to love it. I love satire, I love Fellini and I love comedic portrayals of dysfunctional families. I tried and I tried and I tried, but just couldn't love it as much as I wanted to. All of the analysis you have made is right on. You obviously "got" it in a deep way. I wish I could have gotten it that well, too. I agree that the production and performances were awesome but somehow it seemed disjointed, too meandering and sometimes too over the top and those perceived flaws left me a bit disappointed. I tend to agree with Mark's (who expressed the other side of the coin so well) comments. I feel that the very good conceptual points you have made just didn't come across well in the end product. I only wish it were true that Kevin liked girls, sigh ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:30:15 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: More on American Beauty (NJC) As an example, I found THE ENGLISH > PATIENT to be a three hour bore > I suppose THE ENGLISH PATIENT in some ways speaks to people who love someone > else other than their wives or husbands, but I didn't care for either of the > protagonists and neither of them had my sympathy. Although I wasn't exactly bored by 'The English Patient' I understand exactly what you mean (sorry Howard). I didn't especially like the two main characters either. I thought they were vain, thoughtless & irresponsible people and I just didn't give a hoot about either one of them. I've heard that the focus of the novel was more on the character that Juliette Binoche played. In Minghella's film, however, we don't learn much about her and that's too bad. She seems to be the only character worth caring about. But visually the movie was so beautiful that it was hard to dismiss it outright. I felt the same way about 'The Talented Mr. Ripley'. Minghella definitely knows how to make movies that look gorgeous. But the material for these two films doesn't seem to be about characters that are particularly admirable. At least they don't come off that way in these movies. I think Kirsten Dunst is a > good actress as long as she plays cold and remote. I couldn't possibly warm > up to her and I have little compassion for people indulging in affairs -- > just not a big part of my psyche I think you mean Kristin Scott Thomas. Did you see a movie called 'Angels & Insects'? She wasn't exactly warm in that one either but I do think she's a damn good actress. Maybe the roles she's played just haven't brought out that side of her. Type-casting can be hard to break out of. > What I loved about AMERICAN BEAUTY is that you get an insight into the > unsympathetic behavior of all the protagonists which makes all of them > sympathetic. And this is what I did not feel about American Beauty. I felt like you felt about 'The English Patient'. I didn't like any of these people and didn't especially care what happened to them. Ricky has a sensitivity and capacity for > nonconformity which has made him terribly alienated. Why would he see a problem in > selling pot (especially the kind that has no paranoia) when it has served him > so well? I wasn't particularly placing a moral judgement on what he was doing. Selling it to the middle-age guy across the street who's having a second childhood? Why not? But as far as basing any kind of future on selling contraband, to me that's not the most intelligent of choices. Lucrative for a time, maybe, but not what you'd call secure or wise in the long run. > -- Ricky Fitts is still in that place where he is alive, where he still > perceives the beauty of the world, where it pours through him like water in a > stream. That's the same place Lester is going back to, something he achieves > with the help of some pot. So many of us do need come chemical aid to get > us to turn off the noise in our minds and really see how beautiful it is, to > get us "back to the garden." Again, I'm not making any moral judgements. I certainly consumed a lot of marijuana in my college days and dabbled in psychedelics for awhile. I do believe that some of it taught me to look at the world in a different way, to see the amazing and complex detail & beauty in seemingly simple things. But a lot of that also came from some of the extraordinary people I was lucky enough to come into contact with (one of whom has left a big hole by leaving this world recently). I learned so much about how to look at & appreciate life from the friends I made in my 20s. I am still learning now, mostly from the wonderful man I share my life with, an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in something like 16 years and seems to have a childlike view of life that constantly amazes me. Travis has reminded me of the time when I didn't need any kind of chemical help to enjoy the world around me. I rather like that. But I still believe some of those 'trips' helped me to see things & open doors that I never would have opened otherwise. I get caught up in it myself when I have to > worry about making my car payments or whether I should buy some new shoes. > Maybe those people who have needed less prodding to take the road less > traveled already know the lesson of American Beauty so the film may not speak > to them. And Mark, it speaks very well of you, your friends, and your family > if you don't know many people as fucked up as the characters in this film. Well I won't say I haven't known my share of fucked up people in my life. I do see people in my workplace who bear some similarity to the couple in American Beauty but mostly I steer clear of those people. All in all, I do feel that I have been blessed by the people that have been important in my life. Immediate family, friends - very fortunate that they are the kind of people they are. > It was not much, if any, exaggeration and I have lived in working, middle and > upper middle class communities. Well, Clark, I certainly respect your views. You've given me some things to think about in regard to American Beauty. Travis hasn't seen it so maybe I will see it again one of these days. I do think it was beautifully made. Just like 'The English Patient' and 'The Talented Mr. Ripley.' For some reason I found Ripley more involving. But I still had a hard time caring about the main characters. They were mostly either scheming & duplicitous or rich & vaccuous. Why should I care? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:46:29 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Anne Sandstrom surgery From: "Marie Rizzo" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:44:07 -0500 Anne came through the surgery OK, but will need further chemotherapy treatment. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers. Her Sister, Marie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:45:11 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Tickets to Joni's CT concert From: "Galli, Heather (Chem)" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:09:30 -0500 Hi everyone! Sorry to bounce through like this but I just wanted to extend the offer of purchasing tickets to Joni's show here in Connecticut. They go on sale to the public on April 10th. For those who are interested in going please contact me at: gallih@ccsu.edu I can make payment arrangements with you. I will be going to the box office to purchase the tickets so I can see the best seats available. I am more than happy to do this. The more JMDLies the better :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:23:44 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Covers Project > When it comes to Joni, I'm not above cheating!! Are you? >Consider this a challenge: may the best JMDL'er be the first >to uncover a Joni cover by the "original" Nancy Wilson :-) Stephen, My few searches online have not come up with anything yet. Although I see she is on a just-released "Tribute to Duke Ellington" that sounds fantastic and includes a performance by Jon Hendricks. (my credit card started trembling at the selections) Also noticed that she has covered "You've Changed". So do I get Joni-related bonus points? ;-) Well, the next step may be a search of old vinyls or resorting to outright cheating! ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 22:58:39 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: BSN debuts on Billboard's album chart This has probably already been posted, but since I'm on the digest version of the list I have no way of telling -- sorry if this is a repeat... According to an article on the Addicted to Noise site about tomorrow's new Billboard chart, _Both Sides Now_ will debut at #89. Not as good as one might hope for, but hopefully the album will pick up some momentum over the coming weeks with the tour dates and other promotional plans. Cheers, Jase NP: Hole, _Celebrity Skin_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:35:21 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Away for a few days NJC Hey all, For the next few days I will away, so if I owe anyone an email (and I do) it will have to wait until next week. But I am so looking forward to seeing Joni and Lauar and Jodi and other JMDLers at the Rosemont in May... not that long from now, is it? Take care everyone, (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 00:07:36 -0600 From: "H.D. Motyl" Subject: Re: Kevin Spaceman NJC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------302F2DA45385541736BA0ABB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colin Andersson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: H.D. Motyl > To: JM Discussion List > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 1:19 AM > Subject: Kevin Spaceman NJC > > > does it bother anyone else that Kevin Spacey is so insistent about his > > (supposed) heterosexuality? > > Because in this homphobic world, he would lose in every which way. Fear I > guess prevents him being honest. unfortunately, if what you say is true, he > is also perpetuating the homophobia and therefore committing an offense on > all gay people. > And this is exactly the problem. By his heated denials, he plays into the homophobia and it is very offensive to gay people. All his H'wood pals know about his proclivities and they don't care. If he comes out, is he going to be shunned? I don't think so. He's got Two oscars and a microphone. If he'd only use that mike to dissipate positive energy. - --------------302F2DA45385541736BA0ABB Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for H.D. Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPTV Worldwide adr:;;400 North May Street, Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622; version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note;quoted-printable:"Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something for someone coming behind you and you don't,=0D=0Ayou are wasting your time on this earth."=0D=0A Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------302F2DA45385541736BA0ABB-- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #161 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?