From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #119 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, February 27 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 119 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: tape trading, in general (NJC) [catman ] Re: worried about Joni's smoking (NJC) ["rick " ] Re: Smoking (NJC) ["Matthew Hall" ] Re: Smoking (NJC) [catman ] spring fever(NJC) [waytoblu@mindspring.com] PhoebeNJC [catman ] Re: spring fever(NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: Joni Contibutes [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC: P.S. on communicating [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: Crosby and Laura Allan(NJC) [Randy Remote ] Yankee NJC [catman ] Re: Joni Contibutes [Phyliss Ward ] Re: london times hooray [Phyliss Ward ] Re: NJC Tales of ex-smoker ASC (all smoking content) [dsk ] Re: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" [Bounced Message ] Turned away from the list by negative postings... [Bounced Message ] Re: Smoking (NJC) [Marian ] Gotthard??? (NJC) [Marian ] Judy Collins's Home Page [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Smoke gets in our lives NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Henry Diltz on TLC [Brian Gross ] Re: Thinking outside the NJC box. ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Henry Diltz on TLC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Kyle Eastwood [Seanapper@aol.com] RE: gay stereotypes (NJC) ["Carver, Dax" ] smoking njc [evian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:19:21 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" To Matt J in Athens, GA -- Re your subject line: "SMOKING.....who cares???" Obviously, quite a lot of people -- even YOU, to have added your own experience. Re: "Geeze Louise!!! I wish you'd all just retract your claws! I thought this discussion was about Joni's smoking. I am growing weary of all these personal attacks." I'm not sure what got you so worked up -- it helps to quote the relevant parts of posts that you're railing about. This smoking discussion has been ongoing for a few days now with lots of people posting about it, 99% of them quite decent, despite the sometimes emotional overtones. And re this: "Let's get back to the real reason we're here: JONI MITCHELL!!!" Our interest in Joni definitely steered us all to Wally/Jim's site and Les' list, but the "NJC" in the subject line of posts (especially if you are NOT subscribed to the JMDL as receiving only-Joni content) means NO JONI CONTENT. That means, ANYTHING GOES! If you don't want to see this stuff clogging up your mailbox, use a filter, scroll&delete, or subscribe to the Only-Joni part of the JMDL. Finally, re this: "SIDE NOTE: My gratitude goes out to all those who have helped me with my book on Joni!!!!!" You know, I'm no marketing genius or anything, but if you're going to do a bit of shameless self-promotion to a demographic that just MIGHT be interested in buying your book (once it's published), it would PROBABLY help not to send a post to the JMDL that chastises a considerable number of people for the content of their NJC posts... But that's just my opinion... Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:35:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: tape trading, in general (NJC) I concur with MG. I have been sent all sorts of things from people on this list. even Carly stuff! And even MG sent me two things which i won't mention! Thanks darling. I have had one book, several mags(about Carly), tapes, cd's, and two items of clothing! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:41:21 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: london times hooray Hooray. I actually work in a big newsagents (i'm taking a year out before uni) and on a Saturday it really pisses me off because we always got loads of old women bringing their papers up to the counter and asking us to check if all the supplements are in there (a lot, i can assure you), anyway, today this woman was having a little moan about the papers and the supplements and I had a little flick through for her and out fell Joni on the 'times' magazine! I was in a good mood for the rest of the day - and it is the best interview I've read. I love Alan Jackson (the interviewer); he is such a good reviewer because he actually reviews the music rather than the artist and also he gave 'ray of light' ten out of ten when it came out, but anyway, I could tell he'd obviously done his research (he quotes from 'sweet bird') but I wasn't sure if he was a fan and then, as Adam said, right at the end came: "You see? ... You're loved. People live their lives with your music as a soundtrack. I have..." "Come here" Joni Mitchell commands rising from her seat. "You need to be given a hug" Joni had already mentioned why she felt some of the accolades she's recieved in the 90s where given for the wrong reasons, and how she is most touched when a fan comes up to her (she always hugs them in response) and I thought it was very touching to finally read someone who understood her (even though he did get the title of 'facelift' wrong, but i'll let him off) and then there was a review of BSN and it got 9/10, and that was by a different reviewer. I am so excited for Monday, and Fiona Apple's album is out then too... Matthew NP: Night Ride Home ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:39:59 -0800 From: "rick " Subject: Re: worried about Joni's smoking (NJC) The Rev (soon to be Bishop) Vince wrote: > But I am better off. I am glad that I quit. Among other things, that 2-3 > carton a week money goes to cdnow... and I accomplished a hard thing. For > every smoker out there: smoke if you got them; if/when the time is there to > quit you will when/if it is right for you, and if you do, it will be the > damnedest thing you've ever done, agony. I have to step in here, Vince, for a bit of balance. Quitting can be agony as evidenced by some of the heart-wrenching experiences of our fellow listers but it isn't always for everyone. Just as it's important not to stereotype a person because of sexual preference, so too smokers should not be assumed to all be the same. My father smoked from the age of 12 till he was 53 and then quit a two-pack- a-day habit in one day when he forgot his pack of smokes at home when he went to work. He never planned to quit, never went through any withdrawal, never smoked again, and never wanted to. Unusual certainly, but there are many people who undoubtedly fall somewhere between his case and yours or RikyRacer's. For those interested in the link between quitting smoking and depression, check out http://www.acsh.org/publications/priorities/0501/depression.html All good things Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:49:56 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: Smoking (NJC) Jimmy I thought your post was hilarious and very true. I don't actually smoke, but it doesn't bother me, which is a good job really because otherwise I'd never go to a club. But surely if they follow you outside you shouldn't have to hold your cig behind your back, after all, when you're not smoking you have to breathe in their clean air, so I think they should have a taste of their own medicine. Matthew NP: a recently purchased Night Ride Home - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Smoking (NJC) > Since this has been a thread for the past 2 days, I thought I'd put my 2 > butts worth in. I have been a smoker for 28 years now (yes it was peer > pressure in high school), and I have no plans on quitting. Harper Lou made > some very valid points as have many of you. It's true that no amount of > nagging from my friends or family is going to help. It only makes it worse. I > know I need to quit, but that's not good enough. I want to want to quit (if > that makes any sense). I've only tried once through one of those (Comin to > your town Soon - Group Hypnotist). This guy said he'd cure everyone from > smoking if we listened to him (and bought his tapes for another $45.) One of > his tapes was on weight loss, and this guy was extremely heavy. That did it > for me. When the meeting was over, I was at a convenient store in 5 minutes. > > I am a very courteous smoker, but what gripes me about any of my non smoking > friends or family is when I excuse myself to go outside for a cigarette, they > end up following me. I just want my little cigarette in peace, and I don't > want to have to keep fanning the smoke away from their faces or hide the > cigarette behind my back until it's out. I just want to be left alone or in > the company of another smoker. Why these people who complain about smoke have > to chase me three blocks down the street and climb up a Georgia pine tree > just to carry on a conversation with me and invade what I call "my smoker's > space" is beyond me. It really jars my slats. > > After I've had my cigarette outside, I usually eat an entire can of altoids, > go to the mens room and scrub like I'm about to do surgery, throw my clothes > in the dryer with a scented cling free. (AND YES IT'S WORTH THE TROUBLE). > > The worse part is coming back to the room, where there's always a couple of > people who have to make their smart little remarks in front of everyone like > "Been out Smoking Hon?" or "How was your cigarette?" > Hell, when someone excuses themself to use the restroom and they come back to > the table, I don't shout out "Have a nice dump dear?" "Did you remember to > flush?" > > Anyway, my point is I am a smoker, a very courteous smoker. Since you know I > smoke, don't invite me to your house unless you have a small lepers island > set up 3 miles behind house so I can enjoy my ONLY vice. I promise I won't > get smoke in your face, but please please don't follow me to my retreat if > smoke offends you. > > I'm sure I'm uninvited to Joni-fest now, but if Joni does read the digest, > maybe, just maybe she'll invite me over to her house and NOT you :~) > > Jimmy, going outside for a cig > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:47:06 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Smoking (NJC) Jimmy this has to be the best somking thread mail i have red! Very funny! You know, I make my own fags-hand rolled with king size papers and filters. Costs me about $8 a week to smoke. People, even non ones, often aske me about my fags cos they look so neat. Still i'd rather I didn't smoke. It would really piss me off tho if I did quit and still died anyway! You know, we are ALL, yes all, going to die. People get all sorts of dsieases. People get all sorts of concers. Smokers and non alike. They say don't smoke, don't drink(depending on who is saying it), don't eat red meat, don't eat margerione, don't eat thjis or that because they cause this or that cancer. personally I think this does us all a disservice. We are warned constantly about cancer, heart disease etc from this or that. I wish they would just stop and that the medicos would just damn well accept that they cannot stop people from dying! We are all going to dioe and should not be made to feel guilty about it. nowadays, with all these 'health' gurus and the medicos, peolem ahve begun to blame themselves for getting sick! I am sure the stress surrounding thses issues does not help us one bit. After years of eating a low fat, high carb vegetarian diet and getting fat and lethargic and have IRS, I now eat meat, vegetables, fats and no carbs and I am losing weight, feel the best I have ever felt, the IBS has gone. I sleep well, look well, feel well etc. My BP has gone down, my Cholesterol has gone down. This after many years with with chronic fatigue. so9 I say bollocks to all this fear mongering. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:09:05 -0500 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: spring fever(NJC) I have total spring fever. I can't concentrate on anything. I've just been blasting all this old vinyl on the stereo and enjoying the cool breezes and sunshine. Of course a couple of Negra Modelos didn't really help either. Has this been happening to anyone else? Victor http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm NP: Billy Joel-Songs From the Attic side 1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:07:42 +0000 From: catman Subject: PhoebeNJC I don't normally brag but I am very proud of my Phoebe(a Yankee). Today at a show she won Best Puppy in Breed and then went on to win 3rd Best Gundog! This was only her second show, her first one she got 2nd in the Breed. it has taken me ages to learn to hand strip her, scissor her and shave her but it is well worth it. And she just adores the attention. One look at her face, and what wouldn't I do for her? (well i wouldn't do that, but anything else!) I have never owned a dog like this.(I have had loads over the last 28 years but she is my first Yankee). She completely adores me. Won't take her eyes off me, won't do anything for anyone else, and is always happy as long as I am with her, which is most of the time. i am fortunate to be at home all day with all my pets. - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:14:25 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: spring fever(NJC) Victor writes: << I have total spring fever. I can't concentrate on anything. Has this been happening to anyone else? >> No, unfortunately living down in South West Florida we had our spring on February 12th. I do recall being a bit feverish on that day. Some bird and a couple of bees flew around my rose right before summer got here. Now they must be headed up your way in Atlanta, Victor. Thank god for A.C. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:21:53 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" Hello, I just read your reply and love your writing style, first of all--it cuts like a knife. Perhaps I inferred a tone that wasnt there because of the words "shameless self promotion" in your original response. That, to me, sounds like a cutting remark, and knowing matthew to be a respectful young man just starting in his passionate joni journey, I wished to clarify that his scholarly work, which, I believe entails it being published and therefore, a "book" I referred to your paragraph as a diatribe, written in anger and hastily. Of couse, it is reasonable for you to assume this would be a book meant for commerce from his description. My major point, and this brings me to my statement 'close our mouths and open our hearts' (actually a line from a gorgeous J Taylor song, "That Lonesome Road") is that it's sometimes nice to take a moment before we speak and consider the impact of our words. Maybe instead of plugging into a perception that others are out to be hurtful we could all, myself included, realize that other issues may be at work, and that the intent may not be to personally harm us or anyone. In the world today where it seems we have to fight for so much, is it possible that maybe we sense we are being victimized by statements that aren't meant to do that? Pace Ken in SF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:57:08 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: Re: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" The subject line should probably now read: "NJC: The Trials and Tribulations of Communicating Using the Written Word" Ken -- There's nothing you wrote that I disagree with in general. I love the word "snarky" that someone used recently, and my remark about "shameless self-promotion" regarding Matt's book WAS meant to be snarky, ASSUMING that his book was meant for sale. Since now I know it's not, my comment about it doesn't apply. But my post in whole dealt with his rather frantic tone which chastised JMDLers for talking about some NJC that THEY/WE wanted to talk about. That's what I was addressing, while YOU were addressing the hard time that some people gave Matt when he asked for help with his research -- you just recycled that (and it obviously bothered you on behalf of Matt) and projected it onto my post. So now we know we were talking about two different things, right? Aside from the folks whose one and only posts to the JMDL are nasty-gram parting shots as they unsubscribe (and since they're leaving, it's hardly even worth the bother to say Don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-ass-on-your-way-out -- although it's EXTREMELY tempting), I will usually take the time to point out to the listers who remain that they are out of line when attempting to dictate the content of NJC to their fellow listers, which IS what Matt was doing. ("Usually take the time..."? Hell, ALWAYS!) Peace to you also, and back to my normal color... Kate in CO P.S. Can I get an "amen" out there about "American Roots" on NPR? This is possibly the best radio music show I've ever heard, every single week. Today's offering: Soul & R&B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:07:48 -0800 (PST) From: leslie@torchsongs.com Subject: Joni's Granddaughter I remember reading that Kilauren's new daughter (born last June) was named, Daisy Joan. Is that confirmed anywhere or in the JMDL archives? Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:01:41 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: RE: gay stereotypes (NJC) On Sat, 26 Feb 2000, Carver, Dax wrote: > What's most distressing of all, > however, is when I try to get them to open up and listen, they refuse. I > guess this is closed mindedness brought on by a love for modern pop (which > I, for the most part, despise). It is indeed close-mindedness, but I don't think modern pop fans have a monopoly on that. Discussions of house music in recent weeks, and hip hop at other times, have revealed some (though blessedly not all) Joni fans to have just as rigid ideas about what they will and will not listen to as the people you're complaining about. - --Michael NP: Chaka Khan, "I Know You, I Live You" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:15:06 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Smoke gets in our lives NJC Rick... You are right of course, that you needed to post your comments as balance to mine and RikyRacer's... that is what is so great about the JMDL is that as we all contribute, it all balances out in the final result!!!!! I flashed back on my horrible experiences from the past when RRacer posted, and I know in my heart that all the breathing probems that I am having now are because I smoked too long. Good thing that I quit when I did. I think it really is a matter of body chemistry which I said on a prior post, some people just don't have any problem with a nictonie addiction and others with RRacer sand me, wow... Yet I've heard people tell em of their pain when they gave up caffeine, headaches and dizziness and all that, and I gave up caffeine as easily as your dad gave up smoking. My one cousin could quit heroin on his own, his (late) brother just couldn't. Not a matter of anything and certainly not of morality but of pure body chemistry, DNA, and other factors that we don't understand yet. Smoking is immoral at Bob Jones; caffeine immoral to Mormons. It is amazing how people moralize anything that they don't do to make their way moral, everyone else's way immoral... The link for smoking and depression was neat so I repeat it... (the Rev) Vince NP: Collective Soul, December (still wondering what the song is really about...) rick wrote: > I have to step in here, Vince, for a bit of balance. Quitting can be agony > as evidenced by some of the heart-wrenching experiences of our fellow > listers but it isn't always for everyone. My father smoked from the > age of 12 till he was 53 and then quit a two-packa-day habit in one day when > he forgot his pack of smokes at home when he went to work. He never planned to > quit, never went through any withdrawal, never smoked again, and never wanted > to. Unusual certainly, but there are many people who undoubtedly fall > somewhere between his case and yours or RikyRacer's. > > For those interested in the link between quitting smoking and depression, > check out http://www.acsh.org/publications/priorities/0501/depression.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:10:07 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Contibutes > Second, I am very interested in work where JM was a contributing artist. I > was doing a TotalE (www.totale.com) search on music where Ms. JM was such and > was astounded by the number of works in which she appeared as a guest artist. The joni website has a list of her contributions on other people's albums, which is, I think, fairly complete. It is either jonimitchell.com or jmdl.com. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:18:41 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: Re: NJC: P.S. on communicating An addendum to my previous post about the T&TofWUtheWW: Ken also wrote: "...I referred to your paragraph as a diatribe, written in anger and hastily..." If you mean to say that I wrote what I wrote hastily and in anger (even knowing now that we were addressing two different issues), you erroneously assumed the worst. Neither was the case. It'd be nice if, when possible, people inferred -- as well as implied -- humor before hostility. Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:15:44 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Crosby and Laura Allan(NJC) Ray & Cathy wrote: > > As to whether it was Joni or Laura Allen playing dulcimer on "Music is > Love", Randy Remote writes: > > > > Randy - thanks for finally setting us straight on this. I have no idea what > an 'airy EQ' is......but it completely fooled me! It sounds EXACTLY like a > dulcimer! > > Cathy in Oregon They make the guitar sound airy by boosting the treble. Another reason it sounds like a dulcimer is the droning strings due to using an open tuning (DADDAD). Regarding Laura Allan, she put out a CD about 4 years ago, has another on the way, and has a website: http://www.holdontoyourdreams.com RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:01:23 +0000 From: catman Subject: Yankee NJC Sorry about the dog slang. A Yankee is what we call an American Cocker Spaniel to distinguish it from our Cocker Spaniel, which you lot call an English Cocker Spaniel. For once ,I actually love the way the Americans(they change everything;-) ) have changed the English Cocker to look like the ones you now have. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the way they have ruined the Lhasa Apso from a hardy, game, Himalayan mountain dog to an overhairy poofy little showmachine. This time the American zeal for more and bigger has failed miserably. I am going to bed now before I go into a dog diatribe on the Joni list! - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:14:13 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni Contibutes regarding Fat City, Mark wrote: > Don't know this one at all but I did learn from this discussion list > that Shawn Colvin used Joni & Klein's at-home recording studio for one > of her albums and I assume it was this one. The last we heard, Joni > was turning the recording studio into a painting studio. I recently bought this CD and really like it. The only Joni participation I saw mentioned was that she can be heard 'clapping' on one cut. Not much better than nothing ; - ). But she does say in the liner notes: " To Joni Mitchell: you master, me wimp" : - ) - -- Phyliss Golden Fig Ceramics http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:20:04 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: london times hooray Matthew Hall wrote: > Joni had already mentioned why she felt some of the accolades she's recieved > in the 90s where given for the wrong reasons, and how she is most touched > when a fan comes up to her (she always hugs them in response) Wow Matthew, thanks for that. It really brings back the day when I met Joni and went up to her mumbling something incoherent about how much I loved her music. She gave me a huge hug! Little did I know this was her modis operandi... - -- Phyliss Golden Fig Ceramics http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:33:32 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC Tales of ex-smoker ASC (all smoking content) Vince Lavieri wrote: > Yes... I will NEVER > > smoke again because one cig will lead to a pack to 2-3 packs a day again. > > I think that I will have you and Bob proofread all my posts from here on out... Hi Vince, I didn't point out your lack of a word to show you an error. I thought your Freudian slip made it clear how conflicting it can be to quit smoking, not just for you but for anyone. The conscious mind says one thing and the body says another, and without planning to, you illustrated that. Thought your "mistake" was interesting, which is the only reason I mentioned it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:57:57 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Contibutes In a message dated 26/02/00 14:47:55 GMT Standard Time, RIKandBRAD@aol.com writes: << Finally, she contributed to another Klein co-production Shawn Colvin - Fat City has JM on background vocals - anyone know the cool factor of this work? >> As a big Shawn Colvin, I'd like to give this wonderful album a hearty plug. Shawn Colvin is a superb singer, songwriter and guitarist, who has spoken many times of her great admiration for Joni, and to me is one of the few current performers who's right up there in the top league. In fact I'd go as far as to say that her last-but-one album, "A Few Small Repairs", is one of the best albums of the last decade, and would get a higher place in my personal best-of-the-90s list than any of Joni's. Azeem in London NP: Pooka - This River - just finishing you tape Catgirl, it's the last song! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:30:53 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" From: KJHSF@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:35:04 EST You know, Kate, I believe that Matt is relatively new to the list, and your admonitions for him to sub.scribe to only Joni content is a good one. However, and maybe I'm reading tone in your post that isn't there, but your castigation of him or warning to him or possibly it was just a "gentle reminder" about his book project has irritated me. As I recall, this young man is writing a scholarly thesis for his degree about joni's work. He had numerously posted requesting sheet music, and received, from what I read, only discourgement that the printed music isn't accurate and lots of discouragement in general. I began a correspondence with him offering to send copies of my nearly complete library of joni transciption with the only word of hesitation being about copyright infringement. Since this is scholarly study and the copies are to be destroyed upon completion, we went ahead with this. He received assistance from a couple of other members, plus lots more discouragement, and now this diatribe again, today. While I enjoy the give and take of all these opinions, can we learn to close our mouths and open our hearts a little, be gentle with ourselves and others, and learn through compassion whenever we are able? Ken in SF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:31:50 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: NJC: re "SMOKING.....who cares???" Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:05:13 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Ken in SF wrote: "You know, Kate, I believe that Matt is relatively new to the list, and your admonitions for him to sub.scribe to only Joni content is a good one." Not "admonish," but suggest. As a relative old-timer on the list, I take umbrage with people -- newbies or not -- who would deign to dictate what a number of other posters want to talk about, especially when it's labeled "NJC." "...However, and maybe I'm reading tone in your post that isn't there, but your castigation of him or warning to him or possibly it was just a "gentle reminder" about his book project has irritated me. As I recall, this young man is writing a scholarly thesis for his degree...He received assistance from a couple of other members, plus lots more discouragement, now this diatribe again, today" I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here. If Matt is writing a book that won't be for sale, then it's my mistake -- I just read what he wrote in his most recent post and made a reasonable assumption. Good for you and the other listers for helping him with his research, and shame on those who went out of their way to discourage him. I honestly don't know what you're referring to as today's "diatribe." ..."can we learn to close our mouths..." EXCUSE ME? "...and open our hearts a little, be gentle with ourselves and others, and learn through compassion whenever we are able?" I think you HAVE read something in my previous post that wasn't there. But in my compassion, I will forgive you for admonishing me using a tone that I don't particularly care for for some tone that you mistakenly read into my post. Feeling myself getting a little tone-y NOW, though...!^) Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:33:32 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Turned away from the list by negative postings... Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:13:26 -0500 From: Matt Jones Look, to everyone who keeps bitching at me for voicing my opinion about this smoking discussion......I am sorry for voicing my opinion. My intention was NOT to get things started up again. I merely tried to make the point that some people are going to smoke...some are not. Each side needs to get over the fact that the opposing side is in opposition to them....geeze! did that even make sense??? hahaha... Thanks for all personal attacks via email that I've recieved. way to make a newcomer feel welcome. I did not realize you all felt so passionately about one another's smoking habits. Excuse me for wanting to discuss Joni and not your nicotine intake. I *must* have signed up for the wrong list....I will be leaving this one. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:34:24 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: ASC, SCC, ...NJC From: "Steve" Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:42:00 -0600 Ah! I confess-I use to smoke. (In reading all these posts I'm cracking up! ) Now I'm addicted to chocolate! (And that's not funny..) ;-) Am I making fun of you all? Yes! LOL Been there, got the T shirt... How passionate and defensive (and offensive) we sometimes get about things that are personal choices- whatever our addictions are, they are choices...chocolate, pot, cigs, sex....ad infinum... Now it's time for a Joni quote: "Who cares!" I still like you all... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 01:46:53 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: Smoking (NJC) I smoked heavily for 15 years - 1 1/2 - 2 packs a day - and finally managed to quit in 1983. It took me several months, but it was relatively effortless/painless. I made quitting into a kind of game and did some psychological-type stuff. One of the main things I did was learning to smoke without inhaling. The first three days were really difficult, but after that I found not inhaling almost as satisfying. This not-inhaling thing was combined with permission to smoke whenever I wanted to as long as I did not inhale. I still have that permission and, like Paz, I do occasionally enjoy a cigarette (as long as I don't inhale) and I have no fear of ever becoming addicted again. Anyway, if anyone is interested in reading an article I wrote about how to quit (how I quit), send me an email privately, and I'll forward the document to you. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 01:56:54 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Gotthard??? (NJC) I've been away for the last week - skiing with my family in the Austrian Alps. We had great weather and beautiful snow and a very enjoyable time skiing. I'm so glad my kids are able to ski with us now. They are still a little slower than we are, but it won't be long before we're struggling to keep up with them. I'm looking forward to that challenge. One day, while we were in one of the mountain huts that serve food and hot drinks, there was some very nice music playing. I asked the proprietor what it was and he said "Gotthard" - a group I have never heard of. But he also said that it might not be the right name. They had some kind of amazing computerized music system that I have never seen before. Anyway, I looked for this band in CDNow, but could only find a heavy metal group of that name. But this was really nice almost acoustic-type music - it was a live album and one of the songs had words like "More than I want, more than I need". One of the songs was called "I'm On My Way". The band sounded kind of like acoustic Rolling Stones, except the singer was definitely not Mick Jagger. I'd love to be able to listen to this music again and am hoping somebody out there can help me identify the group/album. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:26:41 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Judy Collins's Home Page One sight I visit alot is The Judy Collins Home Page.I would guess that many people on here would be interested.There is a discussion forum where people discuss issues related to Judy Collins,and often Judy responds to her fans on the board.The adress is:http://www.judycollins.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:49:01 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Smoke gets in our lives NJC > Smoking is immoral at Bob Jones; caffeine immoral to Mormons. It is amazing how > people moralize anything that they don't do to make their way moral, everyone > else's way immoral... This is one of my favorite Grace Slick songs. (Not sure it's all politically correct or accurate in some of its assumptions but I like the message nonetheless - no offence intended to anyone): It's wrong for an Arab to drink liquor But he's a real man if he has two wives It's wrong for a Western man to marry two women But he's a real man if he can drink all night In Greece, take your wine glass & smash it on the floor! They say, 'Aha! How happy you are!' But here if you break glass & behave bizarre They're gonna kick you right out of that bar How does it look from over there? I'd like to see it through your eyes Let's trade sins, if you don't mind I'll use yours and you use mine chorus: Call it right, call it wrong All depends on where you're from Call it right, call it wrong Turn your passion off & on Call it right, call it wrong Twist their little minds while they're still young In India the ladies hide behind veils And walk five paces behind the man The Western woman walks in front & shows off her behind In a skin-tight pair of Western pants Nobody knows the rules when they're a baby As long as you feed me and play with me But then someone always says, 'Obey me!' But the notes don't matter just play.... repeat chorus 2 or 3 times ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:13:37 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Henry Diltz on TLC It's on right now !! (in the Eastern USA) And it's great, so far. Only 10 minutes in, and there have been many shots of Joni with CSN, shooting the cover to their first album! The vcr is rolling! Laurel Canyon next !! Later, Brian nw: TLC (Of course) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:20:50 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Thinking outside the NJC box. > >> > >Scoring: 1-6 questions = average > > 6-12 = somewhat intelligent > > 12-18 = intelligent > > 18+ = Genius! > > > > > > I printed this list out today and worked on it for a few hours while driving > around and have solved all but three of these so I guess that makes me a > genius according to the above scale though I feel more like someone who > loves puzzles. However, the remaining three are driving me crazy. I know > I'll be trying to figure them out for the rest of the day...how have other > people been faring? > You did better than me. I managed to get 24 out of 34. Travis figured out one more but since I didn't come up with it, I didn't count it. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:31:21 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Henry Diltz on TLC Thanks for the tv tip Brian! I have it on and just got a glimpse of Joni's "Blue" album.......and Kakki was right, he does look like Nick Nolte. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:06:48 EST From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Re: Kyle Eastwood RickyRacer wrote: "One of which was an artist by the name of Kyle Eastwood - album was "From There to Here." Produced by Klein, JM on vocals with Diana King and Julia Forham also on vocals. Anyone familiar with this Eastwood guy? The CD sounds kinda cool." It is kinda cool. I just listened to it again this afternoon. Joni does only one song on the cd: Trouble Man. Of course, it's great. Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:09:57 -0500 From: "Carver, Dax" Subject: RE: gay stereotypes (NJC) you are right michael, I guess using the words "closed-mindedness" so close to the words "pop music which I despise" seems hypochritical. The main difference is that I actually HAVE listend to the pop music before I made a judgement. The friends I'm talking about won't even let me get to the "playing" part of joni's music before they make negative smirks. That's what I mean by close-minded. a lady i work with the other day called joni a has-been. then, she went on to talk about how much her daughter loves Brittany Spears. I couldn't help but to think that this woman chooses what she likes by what's "in-style" and that's sad. Joni has always been. (a play on "has-been" just in case someone doesn't understand what I'm saying :)) dax > -----Original Message----- > From: michael w yarbrough [SMTP:mwyarbro@midway.uchicago.edu] > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 5:02 PM > To: Carver, Dax > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: gay stereotypes (NJC) > > > On Sat, 26 Feb 2000, Carver, Dax wrote: > > > What's most distressing of all, > > however, is when I try to get them to open up and listen, they refuse. > I > > guess this is closed mindedness brought on by a love for modern pop > (which > > I, for the most part, despise). > > It is indeed close-mindedness, but I don't think modern pop fans have a > monopoly on that. Discussions of house music in recent weeks, and hip hop > at other times, have revealed some (though blessedly not all) Joni fans to > have just as rigid ideas about what they will and will not listen to as > the people you're complaining about. > > --Michael > > NP: Chaka Khan, "I Know You, I Live You" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:25:42 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: spring fever(NJC) In a message dated 2/26/00 3:05:04 PM US Central Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: << I have total spring fever. I can't concentrate on anything. I've just been blasting all this old vinyl on the stereo and enjoying the cool breezes and sunshine. Of course a couple of Negra Modelos didn't really help either. Has this been happening to anyone else? >> Hey Victor! Totally spring fever here! Bob NP: "You're My Thrill" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:38:15 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Unsung melodies In a message dated 2/25/00 10:39:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, DC200009@Exchange.AtlantaGA.NCR.com writes: << I know I would definitley love to hear Joni sing her old songs. >> Some of these, even many of these, are available on the Joni tape trees. I know I have heard Joni sing more than a dozen of these soings on those tapes. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:42:48 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Unsung melodies In a message dated 2/25/00 11:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, DC200009@Exchange.AtlantaGA.NCR.com writes: << Do you think there's a way to convince Joni to record these? It would be wonderful! >> No, I think it would be somewhat insulting to her to even try, actually -- implying that she has not been able to write anything better in 30+ years. Be thankful there are recordings of many of them and leave it be. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:57:25 -0600 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Henry Diltz on TLC/Chicago Radio Thanks Brian, I heard Henry Diltz on Chicago talk radio this morning. When asked what his favorite album cover was that he was involved in, he replied, "Crosby,Stills and Nash". He said that was his favorite. Those three guys sitting on the couch, outside their house. He said he loved it for it's textural quality - Non glossy -Very grainy - Down to earth. He mentioned Joni but didn't expand. It was a brief phone call interview. When asked what his favorite album cover was that he didn't shoot, he replied, "The White Album" of course. ;-) jody ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:31:24 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Unsung melodies - ----- Original Message ----- > In a message dated 2/25/00 11:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Paul IV writes: > << Do you think there's a way to convince Joni to record these? It would be > wonderful! >> > No, I think it would be somewhat insulting to her to even try, actually -- > implying that she has not been able to write anything better in 30+ years. Be > thankful there are recordings of many of them and leave it be. > > Paul I Why insulting? I don't think that Joni has said that her newer songs are BETTER than her older songs. After all the 2 songs she chose to re-record for BSN are both over 30 years old. Would it have been better to have been thankful they had been recorded and to let them be? POC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 01:31:36 -0600 From: evian Subject: smoking njc Well, being the "me too" dork that I am, I just have to post on the whole smoking thing too. Jimmy's post was great. I too think that I am a courteous smoker. When we bought this house a year and a half ago, I decided that I wasn't going to smoke in it, and for the most part I haven't -- True, sometimes late at night I'd crack all the windows, light all the candles, smoke, and then the next day scrub the walls with ammonia (the only thing that I find that really gets rid of the smell) and Simple Green, and air it out again. However, I haven't even done that since before Christmas, and I doubt I'll smoke in here again -- believe it or not, I hate the smell of smoke, and I can sniff it out like a hound searching for truffles. So, I smoke outside, even in 40 below weather, and I always make sure I have an ashtray, since cigarette butts on the ground, especially wet ones, make me gag like crazy. Also, since I am married to a non smoker, I am always running in and scrubbing my hands, washing my face, gargling, etc., and if I had a dollar for every time I wash my jackets or throw them in the dryer to get the smell out of them.... I even hate smoking outside with non-smokers around, since I don't want the smoke to drift to them, so I try to huddle away from them and blow smoke in the other direction. For years I have said that I want to quit smoking, but I really haven't seriously wanted to because otherwise I would have put up a greater fight. Like everyone has said, you have to want to quit first. This is what I am doing -- I am really gearing up to quit, and trying to envision my life without smoking, which, I hope, is at least the first step. I just don't know how to explain it to non smokers -- I hate the smell of smoke, and in this day and age, I feel downright shameful to smoke, but oh my God, I love it so much. The addiction is simply mind boggling. There is something so.... euphoric... about lighting up a smoke that doesn't even make sense to me. And I don't know about other people, but when you meet a fellow smoker, it's like an instant bond, since you have someone else to go out and smoke with -- it's a camaraderie of sorts. Right now, when I think about my life without smoking, instead of thinking about all the wonderful health benefits, I just keep thinking about loss. What the hell will I do when I talk on the phone? Or when I go for coffee with friends? Or when I take a break at work? Or when I'm driving on the highway, with some awesome music blaring. Or after a huge, decadent, fattening meal. Or when I have a drink. Or after sex. etc. I just keep thinking of how I am going to deal with the absence of smoking during these situations, and I just feel such a sense of loss. I know it's totally stupid, but that's how I feel. I always say that smoking is my favorite hobby, and in a way it is -- I love it, and I always joke that "if I could eat cigarettes, I would". But at the same time, I'll be 30 in 3 weeks, and the thought of entering my 30's while still smoking saddens me -- I really don't want to turn into a chain smoker like my mother, or Joni, or whoever, because believe me, if I let myself, I'd smoke non-stop. Also, I want to quit before I have children, so this is also motivation, but again, it all comes down to REALLY wanting to quit... and I hope to hell I am geared up to quit this spring. I just got back from the States the other day, and of course with the cheap American smokes, I was like a kid in a candystore, and I don't know how Americans can quit smoking, since the prices are so cheap. At least here, at 6 bucks a pack, the money thing is also a motivation in it's own way. Anyway, I've rambled on long enough, but I just have to say that I've enjoyed the posts of everyone who has shared their experiences in this thread. Evian, who is going out right now to have one of those long-ass Salem's he brought back from the states.... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #119 ***************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?