From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #118 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, February 26 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 118 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: grammies (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] re: Crosby (VLJC) [FredNow@aol.com] $25 Super Certificate for Survey (Barnes & Noble) [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: NJC Tales of ex-smoker ASC (all smoking content) [dsk ] Henry Diltz show [Deb Messling ] Re: tape trading, in general (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Acronyms & Quoting NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: smoking; another perspective NJC Ayn Rand [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Both Sides Now [MGVal@aol.com] Joni in Rolling Stone [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Smoking (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Shana Morrison, (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Smoking and Joni [Jim Gaertner ] Joni Contibutes [RIKandBRAD@aol.com] Beg, borrow or steal [Gertus@aol.com] BSN review [Jerry Notaro ] Interview with Joni in Saturdays Times Magazine [Marsglobe@aol.com] SMOKING.....who cares??? [Bounced Message ] Re: SMOKING.....who cares??? NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] london times ["gene mock" ] Re: BSN review ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni Contibutes ["Mark or Travis" ] This Just In [Michael Paz ] Re: NJC Tales of ex-smoker ASC (all smoking content) [Vince Lavieri wrote: >basically, he said Santana would win because the >biz is trying kiss Clive's ass Santana won because: 1) He's great, and has been great for 30 years. 2) The industry occasionally likes to acknowledge a veteran, as they did with Bonnie Raitt a few years ago, and Joni for TI. It's actually an award for their whole career. 3) He's great, and has been for 30 years. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:19:36 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: re: Crosby (VLJC) "Ray & Cathy" wrote: > > >Steve, that's a good question! I just always assumed it was Joni, >and have never even heard of Laura Allen. Maybe Fred Simon >knows the answer??? Remote is right, there's no dulcimer on Music Is Love. Well, I did say I wasn't positive. Laura Allen is a singer/songwriter that David Crosby was extolling back in the day, and justifiably so. I heard her open a Crosby/Nash show in 1973 in San Francisco, and she was wonderful. Don't know what she's up to these days. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:29:59 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: $25 Super Certificate for Survey (Barnes & Noble) If you have any interest in this at all .....do it quick as the offer can be pulled at anytime. "You snooze you lose" Go to: http://refresh.shopping.com/survey.sdc and take a short survey. For your time you'll get a $25 Super Certificate from GiftCertificates.com They do have Barnes & Noble Gift Certificates that, I believe, you take to the actual store..........not to be used online. Here is a list of all the stores you can choose a Gift Certificate from http://www.giftcertificates.com/index.shtml?siteID=bdshpin25sthnkhtxgc Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:38:11 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC Tales of ex-smoker ASC (all smoking content) Vince Lavieri wrote: > I too quit, now for six months, after maye 29 years of smoking. I will > smoke again because one cig will lead to a pack to 2-3 packs a day again. Vince, Is there a "never" missing in that sentence above? I couldn't have one cigarette either; within a few days I know I'd be back to at least 2 packs a day. It's like once your body's experienced that, it never wants to give it up, even years later. But I am so incredibly glad I no longer smoke. It's a horrible addiction. Mine was so bad I'd be in a panic if I didn't have enough cigarettes to last through my late nights, or if there was a subway delay I'd be in between cars lighting up. Cops didn't like that. And of course I'd smoke all through my painfully coughing winter bronchitis. But none of that made me quit. One day I was looking at all the smoke around me and realized it was like a brick wall separating me from other people, and I didn't want that anymore. By then I'd quit dozens of times, from a few minutes to a few months, so I had some experience with how physically uncomfortable it would be. Without really thinking about it, one Wednesday I didn't stop at the corner store on my way to the subway to buy my usual two packs. Don't know why. I didn't go there for a few months because the friendly store owner would put the packs on the counter as soon as he saw me, and I wasn't sure I could resist. And I remember telling myself to be gentle with myself, not to panic at the discomfort, don't go to my usual places for a while, and just let time pass. Don't know why it worked that time; other times I'd quit I was completely crazed. But, I am SO glad for little things, like the whites of my eyes aren't yellow anymore and I don't have that ashtray mouth taste or hacking phlegmy cough . I never tell smokers what to do because I know how addictive smoking is and I also know that smokers don't have ANY idea how harsh smelling and unpleasant it is for other people to be breathing in their smoke. They're used to that smell. And their senses of smell and taste get numbed by smoking. I had no idea about any of this when I was smoking and if anyone was to tell me about my smoke bothering them, oh, the hostility I'd feel...like they were making these complaints up just to annoy me. What wimps! Now, I don't even like to be outdoors next to someone who's smoking. I don't say anything, but I do move away if I can. > I have never had an addiction problem with anything at all, except > nicotine, which my body just craved (craves) passionately. Smoking is not > a moral issue. It is a physiological need that really inhabits some > people, and those whose body chemistry are such that nicotine is not an > addiction for their own self, consider yourself lucky. There are over 100 substances in cigarettes so if the nicotine doesn't get you, something else probably will. When I learned about what the tobacco companies were doing it made me so mad it probably helped me quit. They were manipulating me into doing myself great harm. No, no, no, no more. And then years later to see those suits stand before Congress swearing there was nothing deliberately addicting put into cigarettes. Lies! To anyone who says they can have an occasional cigarette, I say watch out. I did that for a few years, and then without knowing why or exactly when it started HAD to have at least 2 packs a day. From what I've read, smoking is the second-most difficult addiction to conquer (the first is gambling). So anyone trying to quit, expect it to be tough. Those withdrawal symptoms WILL eventually ease up and your body WILL start working again the way it's meant to. Just let some time pass (that's going to happen anyway) and take things easy. Be gentle. Debra Shea Smoke free for about 6 years, ahhhh, deep breaths.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 06:10:39 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: BSN review in UK Daily Telegraph BSN gets a reasonable review in today's Daily Telegraph. It's in the Pop cd section, rather than Jazz, along with Oasis, Smashing Pumpkins and Eels. "You might think that an album entitled Both Sides Now after one of her best-known early songs would be a "Greatest Hits" but you'd be wrong. Instead the former trilling folkie and one of the most distinguished singer-songwriters to emerge during the cust of the late Sixties and early Seventies, has assembled a selection of songs from pre-rock Broadway tradition, garnished with her own A Case of You and the new title track, into a lush song-cycle charting the arc of a love affair, from infatuation to disaffection. And lush it is, featuring a rhythm section anchored by former Weather Report drummer Peter Erskine, and his saxophonist ex-colleague Wayne Shorter as featured soloist, plus a huge orchestra including 28 violins, 8 violas, 7 cellos, 6 clarinets, 2 bass trombones and a partridge in a pear tree. Laudably, Mitchell eschews the obvious repetory and composers: apart from her own entries, the highest recognition factors probably belong to Rodgers anf Hart's "I wish I were in love again"(with its unforgettable rhyme, "When love congeals/it soon reveals/the faint aroma of performing seals", and a piano cameo from Herbie Hancock) and Harold Arlen's Stormy Weather, co-arranged by Gordon Jenkins, who did such sterling service for Frank Sinatra during his Capitol years. And it's all beautifully sung, with an intriguing hint of Billy Hollidayesque astringency tempering Mitchells trademark sweetness and limpidity. If you've ever had a fantasy of being a melancholy Manhattan sophisticate in an Upper East Side penthouse circa 1956, here's your soundrack." CSM Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 06:10:35 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: gay stereotypes (NJC) This was a great post, Colin. I think we all need to be reminded of the problems faced by gays in the uk. You seem to have found a great attitude to life and moving out of London appears to have made a huge difference to you. Also, finding a gay or straight Joni fan in the uk (outside of this list) is like looking for a needle in a haystack in my experience! >>>As for 'divas' and 'gay culture' shaping me, I don't think so. I have never met any gay men or women who have been into Joni or Carly.In fact until this list, never met anyone into them at all. I would suggest that myself, and other gay people, are more likely shaped as a result of living within a society that demeans us, that considers us degenerate, that doesn't believe our feelings and expressions of love are real and that leaves us out in the cold as regards our need/want for a spiritual aspect to life. I think this shapes us in a way that cannot be appreciated by those who don't live in such a climate. I think it has shaped me in a positve way, not a negative way. We can choose to react either way. From it I gained strength and compassion. When I was younger and 'doing the clubs' none of this seemed to make any difference. the real life consequences of such a society hadn't yet hit home. Living with another man for any length of time brings that home. Like the first time I was admitted into hospital and John was refused vistitaion as he wasn't next of kin. Like being charged well over th odds for life assurance just because john is gay. Well we didn't stand for that. We don't have any. we decided that buying into our insecurity and paying for their bigotry was not on. Like meeeting John at heathrow after a six week lecture tour and not feeling I could throw my arms around him and kiss him.(such displays are illegal here). yes, one could argue that men hug all the time but that is not the same. Just walking around shopping or whatever, one has to resist too obvious displays of affection. John doesn't get compaassionate leave for me. The times I have been ill he has either had to lie or take holiday time. Time off is only for wives, husbands or girlfriends and boyfriends-ie for st8's. Penison rights-I have none. The wya things are at the moment, I would only get the lump sum not the penison if John dies. he pays a fortune for it, like anyone else. his works BUPA(health cover) does not include me but would if I were his wife. However, despite all this, i am still blessed to have such a life, to have had God smile upon me and given me such a wonderful man to share my life with. we LIVE our life and have made the best of it. We live surrounded by houses full of str8's and their children. We are PART of this neighbourhood. To me, that has always been my stance-to be me no matter what. So many play a role instead of living a life. so many play at being a radical instead of living as a radical. Each day i live the way I do, each day I am showing you this is who i am and I will LIVE my life. I don't have to dress a particular way, act a particular way, have a particular ideolgy or whatever. I just have to be who i am. the personal is political and that is how I live. The way we live is a political act. Turning up for church every sunday as we do is a political act and those that accept us show their God to us.<<<< - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 06:36:02 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Thinking outside the NJC box. 27outs in a perfect game (baseball) D LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 06:37:44 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Thinking outside the NJC box. for 36., could they be thinking 4 beats in a measure? We know this is only sometimes true. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:58:51 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Even MORE Joni in People Magazine w/David Geffen The newest People magazine (March 6 issue) page 145, under BOOK BONUS, has an article about David Geffen. It starts out: David Geffen, 57, has been stoking the star-making machinery of pop culture for 3 decades. In the '70's as head of Asylum Records, he boosted the careers of singers Laura Nyro, Joni Mitchell, Jackson Brown and the Eagles................ Page 146 has a b&w picture of David & Joni..... the caption underneath, "Friend Joni Mitchell (in 1973) paid homage to Geffen in her song Free Man in Paris." This article is about his love affair w/Cher ........."Geffen began managing all things, big and small, in Cher's life. He rented a house for her and made sure her white Porsche Daytona was always filled with gas. He advised her to finish the current season of The Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour and said he would arrange to get her a solo TV show. He envisioned making Cher a classier act, singing the songs of people he represented, such as Jackson Browne and Joni Mitchell." It's pretty juicy! This is the third or fourth week in a row I've heard another Joni song........shopping in the Dominick's food store..........Joni singing Circle Games came on! Laura **Freebies/Coupons Below** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free 10 Stick sampler pack of incense http://www.theincenserack.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Varsitybooks.com http://www.varsitybooks.com/default.asp?affapp=offer&siteID=VnQgGeB9Pos-wO991icYjfn1NCH8lQ7cjw (Joni Mitchell Companion is $11.25 here) Save $10 off $25 free shipping Code: SUPER128E Save $10 off $25 free shipping Code: SUPER355E2 Save $10 off $25 + free shipping code:GREEN (expires 7-15) Save $10 off $90 code:offer Save $10 off of $25 Code: SUPER228D (expires 2-29) Save $10 off of $25 Code: SAVE53476N (expires 2-29) Save $10 off of $25. Code: SAVE662W (expires 2-29) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four FREE trial issues of TIME magazine 1-800-442-6566 After you get the 4 issues return your bill marked "cancel" and keep the 4 issues without owing a cent. (seen in People magazine) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:03:04 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking (NJC) Just to reassure those smokers who are thinking of quitting but are scared by recent posts: I was a heavy, deep-inhaling smoker for ten years. I quit on my 30th birthday, with the help of Nicorette gum. It wasn't "easy," but it was by no means the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I didn't feel particularly sick and didn't destroy my relationships or take any time off from work. I'm not questioning anyone else's experience, just adding another perspective. I hate the thought that people are scared off from quitting because of the horror stories they've heard. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:35:54 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Henry Diltz show A reminder to those stateside that "California Rock: Under the Covers" is scheduled to air today on TLC, 9 PM EST. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:00:11 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: tape trading, in general (NJC) In a message dated 2/25/00 8:47:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, stoyem@notes.cba.ufl.edu writes: << Is this lack of reciprocity a problem? >> Have you considered doing their laundry for life or cleaning out some closets? Seriously, I've never had a darn thing to offer in return except for the blank tapes and postage paid mailing envelopes. One thing you'll find about the jmdl is that the list members are incredibly generous with their resources and time. And don't be surprised, the day may come that you have something to offer back in like fashion... MG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:02:16 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Acronyms & Quoting NJC In a message dated 2/25/00 9:18:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << Let's add: >> Awright, awright, here's my personal acronym that I use at work: WMW? "what me worry?" It's a zen thing, I'm sure. (:-D MG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:17:11 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: smoking; another perspective NJC Ayn Rand In a message dated 2/25/00 9:13:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, KJHSF@aol.com writes: << Writer, philosopher Ayn Rand believed that smoking, particularly the aesthetic of a lit cigarette, is the appropriate symbol of the spark of a thinking man's mind--fire tamed at his fingertips. All of her archetypical heroes and heroines smoked cigarettes. >> That's an interesting point! In "Atlas Shrugged," one of the clues that drove Dagny forward was the cigarette butt with the "$" logo. And to be sure, there are many small descriptive snippets that write about the flaring match, the cleaning burning paper, how the cigarette is held and the ultimate achievement of taming fire. Indeed, so much of Rand's philosophy turns on how man, (with the sleek female at home in either evening gowns and thin soled heels or a simple frock, (:-D ), has dominion over the elements. I married an addict: nicotine and alcohol. Although I accept that as a non-addict, I cannot fully understand what's going on with the craving, but one thing that I've noticed with addicts is that a certain arrogance similar to Rand's "taming the fire" point of view. "It's there for me and I can quit anytime I want to." During the 10 years of my relationship with my ex, I noticed that the arrogance would flare up and nearly always announce a return to a loss of sobriety. And it's tough. There's media and culture, there's the pull of addiction, there's the judgment of non- or recovered addicts, there's personal guilt and there's all that the addict has lost over their lifetime: love, health and wealth of all kinds. Such a sad cycle that cries out for compassion at all times. MG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:27:48 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now In a message dated 2/25/00 10:10:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, cassysweet@email.msn.com writes: << Regarding the general release disc, I am still wondering whether it will have the same art on the actual disc as the L.E. ... I just got an advance copy from a friend of mine who knows how much I like Joni and the disc is all black with bronze writing on it... I'm curious as to whether this is how the majority of the discs will be printed? Anyone know? >> I have that same disc. Black with the bronze. Doesn't yours say "promotional copy, not for resale?" I asked purchasing at work about it and they seemed to think that the "general" release will have the picture on the top of the CD. I think that Don Rowe asked "whuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz up" about reviews not mentioning the skip-to-my-lou disc qualities that so many list members have experienced. And I think that they've not had any skips because they listened to the advance copy which was not distributed floating around in the box. The advance copy comes in a small, brown outer sleeve and a soft paper inner sleeve. I ordered my limited edition and received it floating around in the box with the scratches. My advance copy was pristine as could be. It almost sounds as though the rush to get the limited edition to the market for Valentine's Day had a less than thought out approach to box design. I bet that we won't see that same problem with the general release and its use of the standard jewel case.... MG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:42:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni in Rolling Stone Laura already sent along the 3-Star review that RS gives BSN. They also feature a really nice b&w photo of Joni. Boy, I sure would love to see a cover story, but I suppose Joni has no interest in being a subject of an RS interview... Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Haitian Divorce" (love the way Fagan says 'it changed...it grew'...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:49:39 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Smoking (NJC) Since this has been a thread for the past 2 days, I thought I'd put my 2 butts worth in. I have been a smoker for 28 years now (yes it was peer pressure in high school), and I have no plans on quitting. Harper Lou made some very valid points as have many of you. It's true that no amount of nagging from my friends or family is going to help. It only makes it worse. I know I need to quit, but that's not good enough. I want to want to quit (if that makes any sense). I've only tried once through one of those (Comin to your town Soon - Group Hypnotist). This guy said he'd cure everyone from smoking if we listened to him (and bought his tapes for another $45.) One of his tapes was on weight loss, and this guy was extremely heavy. That did it for me. When the meeting was over, I was at a convenient store in 5 minutes. I am a very courteous smoker, but what gripes me about any of my non smoking friends or family is when I excuse myself to go outside for a cigarette, they end up following me. I just want my little cigarette in peace, and I don't want to have to keep fanning the smoke away from their faces or hide the cigarette behind my back until it's out. I just want to be left alone or in the company of another smoker. Why these people who complain about smoke have to chase me three blocks down the street and climb up a Georgia pine tree just to carry on a conversation with me and invade what I call "my smoker's space" is beyond me. It really jars my slats. After I've had my cigarette outside, I usually eat an entire can of altoids, go to the mens room and scrub like I'm about to do surgery, throw my clothes in the dryer with a scented cling free. (AND YES IT'S WORTH THE TROUBLE). The worse part is coming back to the room, where there's always a couple of people who have to make their smart little remarks in front of everyone like "Been out Smoking Hon?" or "How was your cigarette?" Hell, when someone excuses themself to use the restroom and they come back to the table, I don't shout out "Have a nice dump dear?" "Did you remember to flush?" Anyway, my point is I am a smoker, a very courteous smoker. Since you know I smoke, don't invite me to your house unless you have a small lepers island set up 3 miles behind house so I can enjoy my ONLY vice. I promise I won't get smoke in your face, but please please don't follow me to my retreat if smoke offends you. I'm sure I'm uninvited to Joni-fest now, but if Joni does read the digest, maybe, just maybe she'll invite me over to her house and NOT you :~) Jimmy, going outside for a cig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:04:13 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Shana Morrison, (NJC) One of my resolutions is to get out more and be more spontaneous about doing things. About 3 weeks ago, I read that Shana Morrison was coming to Davis and I bought tickets, marked my calendar, arranged for baby-sitting, picked my outfit, asked my date, bided my time and fretted about staying up past my bedtime. She was absolutely terrific! The Palms in Davis, CA, is a small nightclub with a seating capacity of about 150 people. Shana has a strong following in this area as it was packed. Along with her band, "Caledonia," she really took down the place. Although the advance descriptions included "Celtic," I heard more R&B and easy-listening rock. There was not a penny whistle to be found. (:-D A couple of her tunes seemed to have a real potential for pop hits: one is still in my head and considering my attention span and overall hearing, that's saying a lot! The tune was "You Are The One" and it had a very groovy upbeat, clean sound. I don't think that she is slated for real top of the heap stardom, though. Just like Patricia Berber whom I saw at the same place last fall, Shana and her band do not seem to have that magnetic stage presence and magnetism that seem to be intangible assets in pushing one over the top to stardom. But that's no shame. She is really good and her band is downright terrific. For me, she resembled a cook in an old fashioned pizza restaurant: enjoying the smell of the dough and the sauce, rolling out the crust with flair and doing the whole in-the-air pizza toss while singing a gusty "oh sole mio." (can you guys tell that I didn't get a chance to eat before the show?) But, with the whole Van Morrison thing, she couldn't get away without some reworking of her dad's stuff and she closed the show with a beautiful version of "Moondance" that smoked due to her vocals and the incredible talents of her two guitar players. It worked for me as a "Van Fan," and my companion who thought that he had heard of him, but I knew that was just saving face because I had already taken him to task about his "Joni who?" response earlier. As is typical with these small shows, in between the sets, she went outside to hawk her CDs. Holy tomato(e), is she tiny! She was incredibly accessible and friendly and just plain easy-going. No bodyguards for her! She dished out the discs, collected the dough, made the change, autographed them all with a simple graciousness that I admired. You guys see Shana Morrison popping up in your town, she is definitely worth the effort to see. And thanks to Kakki for recommending her in the past. Thanks for the bandwidth, MG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:27:55 -0500 From: Jim Gaertner Subject: Smoking and Joni As an ex-smoker, I can only assume the real reason Joni smokes is the same reason that I did it so devotedly for twenty years: I enjoyed it, and nobody was going to tell me what was right or wrong for me. I won't comment on the amount of self-deception or rationalization that lay behind that statement. Suffice to say, when I tried to quit, I suddenly realized that it was more than my mere enjoyment of smoking that really drove the habit. Having said that, I would like to relate the following about a singer (also a serious Joni fan) I dated for a couple of years. She once volunteeered to me that she would never quit because it made her voice deeper, richer. She said she wouldn't be surprised if Joni felt the same way. To illustrate, she played old copies of her music, and then current, and then proceeded to do the same with Joni's. She thought her own voice sounded too nasal and Minnie Mouse-ish when she was younger, and preferred the sound of her more mature, sexier, "smokier" voice. All I could tell her was that the process of maturization might have produced the same effect, without possibly doing damage to her vocal chords, lungs, etc. Since that time, however, I have wondered if what she said about Joni feeling the same way has at least some validity. All I know is that yes, Joni is probably a bit headstrong about quitting, but she is also one smart cookie. Perhaps she too prefers her more "smokier" voice. This is not a judgement, but merely an observation. Perhaps other singers on the List have encountered this attitude before in the profession. (My friend also commented that if she quit, nobody would hire her because she would immediately gain 30 pounds, and suddenly those black spandex pants become your enemy. But that is another story for another time.) Jim in A2 (NP-Sarah Vaughan "The George Gerswin Songbook" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:44:07 EST From: RIKandBRAD@aol.com Subject: Joni Contibutes Hello everyone: I have been on the list about six months now and have learned so much from you all. Thanks so much for the thought provoking and informative posts. I have a few questions for anyone who may have time to answer. First, sometimes in posts, I see words framed with an *. It would look like *this*. What does that mean? Second, I am very interested in work where JM was a contributing artist. I was doing a TotalE (www.totale.com) search on music where Ms. JM was such and was astounded by the number of works in which she appeared as a guest artist. One of which was an artist by the name of Kyle Eastwood - album was "From There to Here." Produced by Klein, JM on vocals with Diana King and Julia Forham also on vocals. Anyone familiar with this Eastwood guy? The CD sounds kinda cool. I also noticed JM contributed to Joan Baez's Diamond and Rust - anyone know in what way? Finally, she contributed to another Klein co-production Shawn Colvin - Fat City has JM on background vocals - anyone know the cool factor of this work? BTW - TotalE has BSNLE for $34.98 with $1 shipping. Maybe it's a sale on the scratched up ones we all returned. Thanks, my good pals for your help. RickyRacer Casa Alegre Hollywood, California ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:15:18 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Beg, borrow or steal You have to get hold of a copy of the UK Times magazine for today, 26th Feb. The fron cover is Joni and inside there is a wonderful article illustrated with photographs taken at Bel Air hotel. LA, plus lots of older ones including one with Kilauren and Marlin. The article is by Alan Jackson and is called "The new Joni Mitchell". It takes up 7 pages. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:22:46 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: BSN review This wonderful review was written by an old friend of mine in my hometown's newspaper. It has some gorgeous photos in it and is full paged. Les, I'm sending it to you. My wonderful Aunt whom I turned on to Joni way back when sent it to me. Copyright 2000 The Buffalo News   The Buffalo News February 20, 2000, Sunday, FINAL EDITION FOLK LEGEND MITCHELL PUTS A JAZZY SPIN ON HER MILESTONE CAREER BYLINE: JEFF SIMON; News Recordings Editor BODY: She was the first, the Mother of Them All. Without her, it's likely there never would have been an Ani DeFranco or Tori Amos or Victoria Williams or Aimee Mann or Suzanne Vega or Tracey Chapman or Alanis Morrisette or any of the Liliths who got their traveling music fair together. And, lest we forget, without her song, "Chelsea Morning," Bill and Hillary Clinton would certainly have found another name for their only daughter. Joni Mitchell was the Guinevere of folk/rock, the archetypal poet/songwriter/singer, the female gender of which "Bob Dylan" is the male. (The difference, always, was that no one ever doubted for a minute that Joni Mitchell could sing.) She was the musical Guinevere who made would-be Lancelots weak in the knees. To some, she still is. At the age of 56, Mitchell has just entered a new professional life and done something largely unprecedented. The disc on which she's done it is, I think, a landmark of American vernacular music. It's called "Both Sides Now" (Reprise) and, while limited deluxe editions are available now, it goes on sale in early March. What Joni Mitchell has done that's unprecedented is this: the seminal singer/songwriter has, in one disc, transformed herself into a great interpreter. In one disc, she has become a truly great artist of jazz/pop. It is, I think, a masterpiece of a sort. And it's been a longtime coming, a lifetime in fact. We're not talking here about Joni the Jazz Singer who first revealed herself cutely singing Annie Ross' "Twisted" on "Court and Spark" and made the eternally interesting but unsatisfactory "Mingus" with a dying Charles Mingus. She didn't really "get it" on "Mingus." She was looking at it all from the wrong side. She thought she could bring her extraordinary art as a folk/rock poet to jazz. She couldn't. She was right, the first time, with "Twisted." It just took her until now to realize it, eliminate the cutes and fulfill the implications. What's happening on "Both Sides Now" is that all of her profound art as a singer/songwriter has gone into making her a magnificent jazz/pop interpreter. There is a life below the surface here - from polio at age 9 to serial lovers as pop music's fabled "Don Juan's Restless Daughter" to the real thirtysomething daughter she gave up for adoption and reunited with a couple of years ago. The early press returns are either magnificent or middling. Those who think it middling tend to be those who don't know what they're hearing. It's the pop corollary of Santayana's Law: those who don't know the past are condemned to think that all repetition is nostalgia. "Both Sides Now" is no more a "waltz through nostalgia" or "mere curio" (as Entertainment Weekly called it) than it is a great modern performance of "Death of a Salesman" or "The Emperor Jones." Mitchell is assuming what jazz singers always assume: that there is something called a classic repertoire of popular and jazz standards in America. And to that repertoire, she is bringing every fiber of her life and her talent and her musical experience. The most obvious referent is Billie Holiday's classic "Lady in Satin." Her melodic phrasing is, obviously, based on Billie Holiday's. And Vince Mendoza's utterly extraordinary string arrangements were clearly meant to rival Ray Ellis' on "Lady in Satin" (in fact, they far surpass them). But Mitchell's breathy alto obviously owes a huge debt to Nat "King" Cole, too. Her dry vibrato has a lot of Cole's honey-roasted sound and she even sings one Cole tune "Answer Me My Love." She caresses some of these notes Cole's way, not Holiday's. And, as only great artists can, she still remains Joni Mitchell throughout. In one disc, she has surpassed in depth all the reigning current jazz vocalists except Andy Bey. The forces Mitchell marshaled were as extraordinary as the disc - not just Mendoza, an arranger/keyboardist who surpassed all previous expectations, but the legendary Beatles producer George Martin, the strings of the London Symphony Orchestra, jazz pianist Herbie Hancock and her old friend and collaborator, the great jazz saxophonist Wayne Shorter of Weather Report and Miles Davis Quintet fame. Mendoza's string arrangements abound in sudden modal codas and luxuriant wit. He has gone Gordon Jenkins one better (and, on one tune, had Jenkins' help); he has consciously used the resources of a modern symphony orchestra to apply reverence to this music and imply the status of modern classic to it. Just as Joe Namath once said "it ain't bragging if you can do it," Mendoza could easily say, "it's not pretentiousness if you can carry it off and make it real." He carries it off in spades. On his few brief appearances here, Wayne Shorter becomes, for Joni Mitchell, part of what Lester Young was for Billie Holiday. His contributions are neither large nor frequent but they are artful and brilliant, suggesting the yearnings for something greater that underlie the whole project. Nothing that she sings on "Both Sides Now" is even close to formulaic. Every song has been thoroughly re-imagined. "You're My Thrill" is worthy to stand next to Ray Charles. "Comes Love," one of the wittier standards, is taken almost straight, even the line "comes a mousie/you can chase him with a broom." Harold Arlen's "Stormy Weather," on the other hand, has a wink of sly wit all through it, as if she's telling us that she knows more than she should about Hollywood and Lena Horne. Listen to "You've Changed" for a specimen of jazz/pop as exceptional as "You're My Thrill." When the great jazz saxophonist Dexter Gordon played it at the original Tralfamadore on Main and Fillmore as part of his 1976 tour, he preceded it by explaining that he always heeded Lester Young's admonition that all jazz instrumentalists should know the words to songs they play. He then proceeded to prove it by reciting, through billows of cigarette smoke and heavy-lidded eyes, the first two verses in a mock-bedroom basso that rivaled Barry White's: "You've changed. Your smile is just a careless yawn/You're breaking my heart/You've changed/You've changed/Your kisses now are so blase/You're bored with me in every way/You've changed." What Gordon proceeded to take apart and lovingly and jaggedly reassemble, Mitchell reinforces by remelodizing and meaning every word. On this and "You're My Thrill" and "At Last" (with double-time piano plinking a la '50s doowop), she is extraordinary. But it's on two of her own songs on "Both Sides Now" that Mitchell shows you how she has re-created herself as a great interpreter of American popular song. When she sings "I Could Drink A Case of You" (from "Blue"), the thirst of it is abject. (Her sudden interpolation of "Oh! Canada" seems close to a retch of disgust now.) And she ends it with the title song, her best known, a song written by a wildly talented but slightly pretentious young woman in her 20s. She's interpreting it now, finding how much more meaning it has now, three decades later. What you're hearing now is a woman who, in the '80s and most of the '90s, stopped appearing live because the debilitating symptoms of what's called Post-Polio Syndrome made it impossible; a woman who finally reunited with the only daughter she'd had and given up for adoption decades before. And when Wayne Shorter plays a yelping saxophone obligato, you're hearing a musician who lost his wife and manager aboard TWA Flight 800. "But now old friends are acting strange/they shake their heads, they say I've changed/Well something's lost but something's gained/by living every day." You can, believe me, hear Joni Mitchell and Wayne Shorter together for a month and still have trouble keeping a dry eye. It's a milestone disc for Mitchell and, I think, for American music. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:56:22 EST From: Marsglobe@aol.com Subject: Interview with Joni in Saturdays Times Magazine Hi everyone, I'm Adam in London, and have been lurking for ooooh.....forever :) I thought I'd uncloak from cyberspace to say that todays London Times ran a really good feature about Joni by the journalist Alan Jackson. Excuse me if this is old news as I'm a bit backlogged with posts. Anywho it's a great interview over five pages and includes some really good pictures by Graham Wood taken at the Bel Air Hotel LA. Joni looking cool in a Yamamoto dress and discussing the general critical "rehabilitation" she's undergoing currently. Also getting older, ("I'm an old babe now. I'm of an age when husbands run away with younger models") her daughter and her painting and her albums. It's really sweet when the interview ends with Alan Jackson saying "You see? ... You're loved. People live their lives with your music as a soundtrack. I have"... "Come here" Joni Mitchell commands rising from her seat. "You need to be given a hug" Awwwwwww :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:51:24 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: SMOKING.....who cares??? Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:51:54 -0500 From: Matt Jones Geeze Louise!!! I wish you'd all just retract your claws! I thought this discussion was about Joni's smoking. I am growing weary of all these personal attacks. As a non-smoker, I know how annoyed I get when I have to be around smoking, and I know how annoyed my allergies get, too!! However, I am sure that I (as well as every other smoker and non-smoker!) have habits or behavior that annoys someone else. If you don't like smoke, avoid establishments that allow smoking. If you don't like non-smokers, avoid them. I have friends of either persuasion, and we all manage to get along! I think you're all acting like a bunch of adolescents! I am GLAD Joni does not sub.scribe to this list because right now I am embarassed to be part of something that perpetuates such juvenille behavior! The fact is some people are going to smoke, despite what anyone says, and some people are not going to smoke. Potential health risks aside, is it really that big a deal? Personally, I'd rather have something more pleasant in my inbox than all these negative posts! Let's get back to the real reason we're here: JONI MITCHELL!!! SIDE NOTE: My gratitude goes out to all those who have helped me with my book on Joni!!!!! Work is going full steam....right now I am dealing with DJRD and the music involved... much love to you all!!! Matt J. in Athens, GA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:22:10 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: SMOKING.....who cares??? NJC Matt writes: << Let's get back to the real reason we're here: JONI MITCHELL!!! >> Matt, I'm not sure if you were part of the JMDL earlier last month, but we went through all of this. You need to sign up for the Joni Only list if that's all that you care to read. The thread did start up about Joni's smoking, but like most threads they tend to drift off into other areas which have nothing to do with Joni. That's why we use the NJC tag. Hope that helps you out some :-) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:32:11 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: london times fyi from the london times JONI MITCHELL (9/10) Both Sides Now (Reprise) UNLIKE BRYAN FERRY'S recent lame album of Thirties standards, Mitchell's reinventions of romantic songs made famous by the likes of Sinatra, Nat King Cole and Ella Fitzgerald is an unexpectedly thrilling and cliché-free affair. While you might want to hear her singing new compositions, these days her voice has a smoky expressiveness that is perfect for this material. She oozes a mature sensuality, the arrangements are inventive and the songs are cleverly sequenced to track the rise and fall of a modern romance, from the intoxicating rush of You're My Thrill to the world- weary Stormy Weather. She also offers orchestral remakes of two of her own songs. The title track is the album's one failure, but A Case of You, originally on Blue, is quite lovely. - NW ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:43:59 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: BSN review This wonderful review was written by an old friend of mine in my hometown's newspaper. It has some gorgeous photos in it and is full paged. Les, I'm sending it to you. My wonderful Aunt whom I turned on to Joni way back when sent it to me. Jerry, Thank you so much for posting this! Except for that little reference to the 'Folk legend', I agreed with just about everything this person had to say. I really think Joni's vocal performances on BSN are extraordinary. Unlike some singers who attempt this type of material, she really seems to know what she's doing and she does it brilliantly, still managing to maintain her own very unique persona & style throughout. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:53:42 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni Contibutes > One of which was an artist by the name of Kyle Eastwood - album was "From > There to Here." Produced by Klein, JM on vocals with Diana King and Julia > Forham also on vocals. Anyone familiar with this Eastwood guy? The CD > sounds kinda cool. I don't have this cd but I do know that Kyle is the son of Clint Eastwood. Joni sings the Marvin Gaye song 'Trouble Man'. > > I also noticed JM contributed to Joan Baez's Diamond and Rust - anyone know > in what way? Joni duetted with Joan on the song 'Dida'. Basically all this ditty consists of is Ms. Baez singing the syllables 'dee-dah' or 'la-la-la-la-la' with Joni improvising a kind of response, backup thing. Sometimes they harmonize and it's really very pretty. > > Finally, she contributed to another Klein co-production Shawn Colvin - Fat > City has JM on background vocals - anyone know the cool factor of this work? Don't know this one at all but I did learn from this discussion list that Shawn Colvin used Joni & Klein's at-home recording studio for one of her albums and I assume it was this one. The last we heard, Joni was turning the recording studio into a painting studio. > > BTW - TotalE has BSNLE for $34.98 with $1 shipping. Maybe it's a sale on the > scratched up ones we all returned. CDNow also has it on sale for this price. I wrote them an email & asked if they had any kind of price guarantee. Basically they said, sorry but your order is already processed & the item wasn't on sale at the time but we will give you a $5.00 credit to use whenever you want to. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 12:28:31 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: This Just In Hey Folks- I have received a set of tapes from a fellow member of the Lee Shore list. It is from a Westbury, NY show dates 9-8-74. (There is also some filler on the final tape from shows on 10-4-73 and 12/71) There is alot of Joni content on this concert. You can hear her singing on alot of the songs. The performance as a whole is kinda rough, but it is very cool. You can hear chatting away and having a good time between songs. I am wondering if there is some interest in these tapes, I would be willing to offer my copies up to someone to try and clean them up and turn them into a CD tree. Any ambitious folks out there with plenty of time on their hands. Have a wonderful weekend! Michael (Backstreet Boys Bound again with 3 kids in tow) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:54:52 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC Tales of ex-smoker ASC (all smoking content) dsk wrote: > Vince Lavieri wrote: > > > I too quit, now for six months, after maye 29 years of smoking. I will > > smoke again because one cig will lead to a pack to 2-3 packs a day again. > > Vince, > > Is there a "never" missing in that sentence above? > Yes... I will NEVER > smoke again because one cig will lead to a pack to 2-3 packs a day again. I think that I will have you and Bob proofread all my posts from here on out... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:08:23 -0500 From: "Carver, Dax" Subject: RE: gay stereotypes (NJC) First off I'd like to say that I am gay and I consider Joni the greatest of all. It's been mighty distressing to me down here in Georgia that I just can not find any other gay men who love Joni (most the one's I know don't even know who she is!!!!) My love for Joni is so that I can talk and talk and talk about her and her music all the time. I guess it annoys my friends (gay and straight) for the most part. What's most distressing of all, however, is when I try to get them to open up and listen, they refuse. I guess this is closed mindedness brought on by a love for modern pop (which I, for the most part, despise). So, with that, are there many gay men Joni fans out there? dax > -----Original Message----- > From: Gertus@aol.com [SMTP:Gertus@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 6:11 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Cc: catman@erthericcats.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: gay stereotypes (NJC) > > > This was a great post, Colin. I think we all need to be reminded of the > problems faced by gays in the uk. You seem to have found a great attitude > to > life and moving out of London appears to have made a huge difference to > you. > Also, finding a gay or straight Joni fan in the uk (outside of this list) > is > like looking for a needle in a haystack in my experience! > > > >>>As for 'divas' and 'gay culture' shaping me, I don't think so. I have > never > met any gay men or women who have been into Joni or Carly.In fact until > this > list, never met anyone into them at all. > I would suggest that myself, and other gay people, are more likely shaped > as > a result of living within a society that demeans us, that considers us > degenerate, that doesn't believe our feelings and expressions of love are > real and that leaves us out in the cold as regards our need/want for a > spiritual aspect to life. I think this shapes us in a way that cannot be > appreciated by those who don't live in such a climate. I think it has > shaped > me in a positve way, not a negative way. We can choose to react either > way. > From it I gained strength and compassion. > When I was younger and 'doing the clubs' none of this seemed to make any > difference. the real life consequences of such a society hadn't yet hit > home. > Living with another man for any length of time brings that home. Like the > first time I was admitted into hospital and John was refused vistitaion as > he > wasn't next of kin. Like being charged well over th odds for life > assurance > just because john is gay. Well we didn't stand for that. We don't have > any. > we decided that buying into our insecurity and paying for their bigotry > was > not on. Like meeeting John at heathrow after a six week lecture tour and > not > feeling I could throw my arms around him and kiss him.(such displays are > illegal here). yes, one could argue that men hug all the time but that is > not > the same. Just walking around shopping or whatever, one has to resist too > obvious displays of affection. > John doesn't get compaassionate leave for me. The times I have been ill he > has either had to lie or take holiday time. Time off is only for wives, > husbands or girlfriends and boyfriends-ie for st8's. Penison rights-I have > none. The wya things are at the moment, I would only get the lump sum > not the penison if John dies. he pays a fortune for it, like anyone else. > his works BUPA(health cover) does not include me but would if I were his > wife. > > However, despite all this, i am still blessed to have such a life, to have > had God smile upon me and given me such a wonderful man to share my life > with. > we LIVE our life and have made the best of it. We live surrounded by > houses > full of str8's and their children. We are PART of this neighbourhood. To > me, > that has always been my stance-to be me no matter what. So many play a > role > instead of living a life. so many play at being a radical instead of > living > as a radical. Each day i live the way I do, each day I am showing you this > is > who i am and I will LIVE my life. I don't have to dress a particular way, > act a particular way, have a particular ideolgy or whatever. I just have > to > be who i am. the personal is political and that is how I live. The way we > live is a political act. Turning up for church every sunday as we do is a > political act and those that accept us show their God to us.<<<< > > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #118 ***************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?